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The Ed Show for Thursday, Augusth 14th, 2014

Read the transcript to the Thursday show

August 14, 2014

Guest: Matt Pearce, Salamishah Tillet, Marcia Dyson, Kimberle Crenshaw

MICHAEL ERIC DYSON, MSNBC HOST: Good evening Americans. Welcome to the Ed
Show live from New York. I`m Michael Eric Dyson in for Ed Schultz. Let`s
get to work.




UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What do we want?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When do we want it?


that many Americans have been deeply disturbed by the images we`ve seen in
the heartland of our country.




UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police fired tear gas on protesters in Ferguson.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is the police department, you must leave the area.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A day that began with promise of peace ends with
another showdown on the streets.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The crowd is peacefully standing with their hands in
the air.

OBAMA: I express my concern over the violent turn.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Our faces were burning, our eyes were watering.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Don`t treat us like we`re different.

OBAMA: To see the justice is done.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He was a peaceful person and he lived his life

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is your guy to protect and to serve.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What do we want?




UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What do we want?




UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What do we want?




UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What do we want?


DYSON: Overnight, Ferguson, Missouri looked more like a war zone than a
suburb of St. Louis.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Tear gas was thrown multiple times. I wasn`t sure
what prompted it. Some say, someone threw a bottle or some sort of object
at the police, but we haven`t confirm that. All I know is that everyone
took up sprinting including me and my photographer and other journalists
jump into our car, I mean our faces were burning, our eyes were watering,
we`re not sure what was going.

And so, that has been taking place. It was just this cloud of gas in the
air, that`s all you saw, and then officers, armed officers, walking around.
It felt like you were in a war zone, you just heard this popping over and


DYSON: The protesters assuming from the outrage over the fatal police
shooting of unarmed 18-year-old Michael Brown.

Earlier today, President Obama addressed the situation.


OBAMA: This morning, I received a thorough update on the situation from
Attorney General Eric Holder, who`s been following and been in
communication with his team. I`ve already tasked the Department of Justice
and the FBI to independently investigate the death of Michael Brown, along
with local officials on the ground. The Department of Justice is also
consulting with local authorities about ways that they can maintain public
safety without restricting the right of peaceful protest and while avoiding
unnecessary escalation. I made it clear to the attorney general that we
should do what is necessary to help determine exactly what happened and to
see that justice is done.


DYSON: An administration official says the justice department had urged
authorities in Missouri to demilitarize the crowd control in Ferguson, and
has offered technical advice from his community policing office of non-
confrontational techniques for dealing with large crowds. This comes after
the forth night of violence.

Here`s what developed over the last 24 hours. The local school district
has canceled school for today and tomorrow in response to concerns
expressed about continuing unrest in the community. It`s planning to
reschedule the first of day school for Monday.

Missouri Governor Jay Nixon canceled his trip to the Missouri state fair
and returned to Ferguson. He met with members of the clergy and local
leaders earlier today. The governor addressed the turmoil overnight on
Twitter writing, "The situation in Ferguson does not represent who we are.
Must keep the peace while safe guarding rights of citizens and the press."

Governor Nixon`s message is a stark contrast to the reality on the ground.
Dozens of heavily armed police and SWAT teams in military-style vehicles
carried heavy duty assault riffles and faced off with protesters for a
forth night. Sixteen people were reportedly arrested and two officers were

Two of the arrests were of journalists, Wesley Lowery from the Washington
Post and Ryan Riley of the Huffington Post. Lowery took cellphone video of
the officers approaching them as they worked in a McDonald`s nearby.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Please stop, let`s go.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m working on it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stop video taping. Let`s grab our stuff and go.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Somebody else might video tape you, sir.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hurry up, let`s go.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Please don`t (inaudible).


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You see me working.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Please do not tell me not to use my ...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s time to go, let`s go.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re done about 45 seconds, let`s go.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let`s go, let`s go.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m trying to ask a ...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We don`t have time to ask questions, let`s go.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can I move my car? I`m asking you .

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You can move your car if your car is out here, let`s

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is. That`s why I was asking. You don`t have time
to answer it?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let`s go, let`s go.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s being mean. I`m working here, sir.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let`s go. Here`s the door over here. Let`s go.

Let`s go you can move. Let`s go, move.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let`s move. Let`s move.


DYSON: Wesley Lowery from the Washington Post discussed the confrontation
with Jose Diaz Balart earlier today.


WESLEY LOWERY, WASHINGTON POST: We`re recording them on video because a
forceful evacuation of a private company, a private store, a fast-food
chain is new. It`s something I could send to viewers and they would see
what`s going here on the ground.

An officer took exception of the fact that I was video taping him and he
decided to try to illegally prevent me from doing that. I told him, "Sir,
you do not have a right to do this." and they threw up against the soda
machine. They put me in handcuffs or in plastic or strings all the while
yelling at me, "Stop resisting. Stop resisting", as I was yelling to them,
"I`m not resisting, you can arrest me. It`s fine ...


DYSON: There have been reports from multiple journalists who say they are
being targeted by a police. A police also fired tear gas into the crowds
of demonstrators last night. national reporter Trymaine Lee was
caught in the chaos before he went on the air with Lawrence O`Donnell.


smoke, I can barely breath. My nose (inaudible) still hangs in the air.
It look the police have taken over completely at the end of the street.
But again, far down the street the clouds of tear gas kind of engulfing and

Just a few seconds ago, after a long -- for about five minutes, another
stun grenade went off. And so they`re still firing off. And again, my
entire face, from my nose, and lips, and my eyes, it`s all burning, it feel
like it`s almost on fire. And so I can`t imagine what people actually in
it, feel.


DYSON: I watched Mr. Lee`s riveting testimony last night live there on the
Lawrence O`Donnell show. So, let me bring him in now. national reporter Trymaine Lee and Matt Pearce L.A. Times
reporter who have both been on the scene in Ferguson, Missouri.

Trymaine, let me start with you. How do you feel being there today? Are
other reporters feeling worried about the situation escalating even further
like it did last night?

LEE: I think at this point it`s -- Early this morning, it was kind of the
calm after the storm. And already, people are starting to gather, you can
hear behind me the horns are honking, people are still chanting. But with
all the leaders in the country, with their eyes focused on Ferguson, with
the world watching, with all the media surrounding this town we`ll see how
it will go next. With the politicians saying that now is the time for
peace and it`s time to demilitarize the situation. You know, people hope
that it will be calm, but once night falls, who knows what will happen.

DYSON: Yeah. And I was always thinking, when they said, "Well, why don`t
people just protest during the day?" They have jobs. They have to go to
work. So, they have to come home and then be able to express their own
amendment rights to protest.

Matt, President Obama met with Eric Holder and now the Department of
Justice if offering tactics. Is Obama doing enough?

MATT PEARCE, L.A. TIMES: Well, you know, that`s not really my place to
say. But, you know, I was at the community meeting this morning where
community leaders were talking about, you know, the police response last
night. You know, the people who are out here, they just said it was too
intense, you know, assault riffles on the streets, armed personnel carriers
have freaked people out. And that has drawn the attention of the national
politicians now.

And I have spoken with some Ferguson residents since the politicians have
made their statements today. And there does seem to a be sense that
national politicians, state level politicians, are paying attention to
them, that they`re uncertain about what`s going to happen tonight. They
say that`s contingent on what the police do, when they come conflict tends
to come with them. That`s been the case over the past few days.

DYSON: Trymaine Lee, let me try it with you. Is President Obama doing
enough, was that a sufficient answer he gave or at least addressing the
situation in a way that would reduce the palpable tension that you feel

LEE: When it comes to matters of President Obama weighing in particularly
in these racially fought cases, we know that, you know, everyone is not
going to be satisfied. He was criticized after the Trayvon Martin killing
that he dragged his feet for days, weeks until he said, you know, "He could
have been my son."

In this case, even though the racial element is here, it`s not stinging
through the same way it did with the Zimmerman case. But for him to step
up and say, that protesters need not be, you know, attacking police, but
also law enforcement needs to, you know, step carefully. I think he`s
doing something. He`s letting everyone know that he`s paying attention.

Of course he`s on vacation on Martha`s Vineyard, so I think he probably had
to come out and say something. It just doesn`t look good if you`re out
vacationing and then an American city is under siege. It just doesn`t look

DYSON: Well, Trymaine, what are friends of the Brown family say about the

LEE: No one wants the violence, no one says -- no one believe -- or
express that they believe that the violence will solve anything. Even
though everyone understands the frustration, they understand the kind of
anger that`s been bubbling up in so many people. They say if you really
want to honor Michael Brown`s life and his legacy and what his death might
mean in the bigger sense about young black man, their lives and interacting
with police then do it peacefully.

Now, there are some leaders now in town and national civil rights groups
are focusing. And the hope is, that now they`ll be able to use all these
good energy and all these young people have maintained and continue to
maintain, use it for some positive ways, some way they could figure out how
to really get the most out of the system.

DYSON: Matt, earlier today, Ferguson police Chief Thomas Jackson was asked
about the brutality from police. Here is his response from the news


THOMAS JACKSON, FERGUSON POLICE CHIEF: I understand that, the other side
of that is, there is gunfire, there are fire bombs being thrown at the
police. And I understand that what it looks like is not good. The whole
situation is not good at this point.


DYSON: You know, Matt sometimes people may believe they`re seeing a world
split apart by different perceptions because nobody there with cameras or
anything that has captured the picture of crowds fire bombing the police
and the like. What`s you`re reaction to what the Police Chief said?

PEARCE: Well, I will say that in a two of the three nights that I`ve been
out here, you know, I`ve had protesters telling me, you know, to get away.
Not because they`re trying to intimidate me but for my own safety because
they said, you know, there are other protesters with guns out here. You
know, and I have spoken with the Ferguson police chief and after the first
night of riots moving on Sunday night, well that was the only night that
there was looting.

He said that there were three shots fired at him in the Walmart parking
lot. I spoke with the St. Louis County police chief last night. They said
that they were hearing more reports of gunfire. No one has been hit,
thankfully. But the chief did say that there was an officer who had broken
his ankle after a protester had hit him with a brick.

So, there is reports of violence out here. I haven`t personally seen it
myself. But the problem with the scene is that it`s so spread out and so
chaotic that it`s impossible for any reporter sitting in one place to know
everything that`s going on. And I think something that you`ll find that
people in this community will tell you is that, the people who used that
kind of violence is not representative of them. But, you know, people do
believe that there are a few bad actors out there.

DYSON: Sure. You know Trymaine one of the unfortunate consequences of
situations like this when you capture a community frozen in time is that
you see the outrage and the emotional outburst that they may legitimately
and justifiably make in response to an invincible form of oppression that
they`ve endured and now we see it`s visible. But -- So, the people get
demonized. But tell us how the people there have been treating you in the

LEE: Quite frankly, I`ve gotten a level of hospitality. Not that I
wouldn`t expect. But under the circumstances an outpouring of support and
help in trying to tell their story and what`s happening in their community.
Last night, as I was here and the police were launching tear gas canisters
and every one`s running and we`re, you know, we`re all -- our faces like
they`re on fire, people were comforting each other. And I couldn`t get
back to my car which is on Canfield near the scene of the killing. A group
of young ladies they just followed us.

So, we kind of -- I followed them back to the winding roads in the
neighborhood and got the back to the area of my car. I was on the car, I
think, with Lawrence O`Donnell on the phone or Chris Hayes and I said, "I`m
out here. I`m at the scene of the killing and I could still -- the tear
gas is still burning my face."

A guy came out of his house and said, "Are you Trymaine? I heard you -- I
was watching MSNBC and I heard that you were right out here." brought me
in, gave me a glass of water, let me charge my phone, offered me dinner,
his wife who just cooked earlier that night and he offered dinner. And
then after that, he got in his car and I followed him out the neighborhood.

People have come out and even within groups of the people were protesting.
There was talk earlier before things unravel about how they can turn this
into some economic means? How can they withhold their economic support?
These are conversations from young people that felt they never had a voice,
who don`t necessarily feel the agency to affect political change. And
they`re having these conversations. There are prayer circles. It`s been a
lot of love despite the fact that there`s been so much aggression and so
much violence and all the images that we`ve been putting out into the world
have been full of tear gas and violence.

DYSON: Sure, Matt and then Trymaine as well but I want to ask Matt first.
I want to get both of your responses. Congressman Lewis called on the
President to declare Martial Law. Here`s what he said.


REP. JOHN LEWIS, (D) GEORGIA: My own feeling is right now is that
President Obama should use the authority of his office to declare martial
law, federalize the Missouri National Guard to protect people as they


DYSON: Matt and then Trymaine what`s your reaction to that?

PEARCE: Well, I don`t know if that`s going to happen. Governor Nixon
announced a little bit earlier that the Missouri State Highway Patrol would
be taking over crowd control from this point. And the man that he wants to
leave that effort is African-American and that`s something that I think a
lot of people in this community here sight as one of the reasons that these
scenes are upsetting to them, you know, it`s predominantly African-American
people in the street. And it`s overwhelmingly white police officers, you
know, holding the weapons against them.

So, you know, what`s going to happen to night, I don`t know, they don`t
know. A lot of people are telling me it`s contingent on who shows up and
what happens.

DYSON: Right. Trymaine?

LEE: Yes, as you know Michael, I mean community leaders would say that
more law enforcement isn`t the answer. Let`s remember what brought us here
in the first place. A young unarmed teenager was shot and killed by the
police. And there are still so many questions surrounding that. We don`t
know if it was justified or not. It`s not pointing any direction but we
don`t know enough to make that kind of decision.

But it goes back to even Chicago, people talking about bringing the
national guard in. Do we think that the National Guard could come here,
lock it down and treat people respectfully? That will be the question that
people in the community would ask. Is it just another layer of law
enforcement to oppress them, to subjugate them? That`ll be the fear and
so, who knows.

DYSON: All right, Trymaine Lee, Matt Pearce thanks for your time tonight.

PEARCE: Thank you.

LEE: Thank you.

DYSON: Coming up, President Obama joined the course of politicians calling
for peaceful resolutions in Ferguson.

Plus, protest in Missouri have brought the issue of over policing in
America front and center. The Rapid Response Panel weighs in as the
community searches for answers.


DYSON: Welcome back to the Ed Show.

As unrest continues in Ferguson, Missouri following the shooting death of
Michael Brown, President Obama weighed in on the situation this afternoon.


OBAMA: Today, I`d like us all to take a step back and think about how
we`re going to be moving forward. When something like this happens, the
local authorities, including the police, have a responsibility to be open
and transparent about how they are investigating that death and how they
are protecting the people in their communities. Now is the time for
healing. Now is the time for peace and calm on the streets of Ferguson.
Now is the time for an open and transparent process to see that justice is


DYSON: President Obama has also been in contact with Attorney General Eric
Holder and asked the Department of Justice and the FBI to independently
investigate the shooting.

Ferguson Mayor James Knowles says they are looking to forge better
relations with the community, but suggest this problem is not specific to
his town.


MAYOR JAMES KNOWLES, FERGUSON, MISSOURI: We hope that from here on out, we
can continue to work with young men in our community and other communities
to have better relations, not only with the community but with our law
enforcement officers and law enforcement officers across the country,
because this is not a Ferguson problem, this is a national problem.


DYSON: The spotlight on Ferguson brings back the conversation about
violence against African-American youth. But as these incidents continue,
there needs to be more than talk, there needs to be action from our leaders
beginning with the White House.

For more, I`m joined by Salamishah Tillet, Assistance Professor of English
and Africana studies of the University of Pennsylvania and Co-Founder of A
Long Walk Home, and Goldie Taylor, MSNBC Contributor and Columnist for

Dr. Tillet, let me begin with you. Will President Obama`s comments today
have an affect on the ground? And do you think he set the right framework,
as smart as he is constitution lawyer as he is, African-American man as he
is to understand what`s happening there?

press conference and so I was struck by the difference in rhetoric between
his discussion about American -- U.S. military intervention in Iraq and the
ways in which the president as well as the U.S. military is supporting
religious and ethnic minorities there. It`s a campaign that I obviously --
he doesn`t want to do because he`s decided we have to do.

And then, the tone and the rhetoric around Ferguson is very different. So,
he`s not asking for military intervention, it`s a conversation that he
wants us to continue to have around race and he has said that Holder should
go in the Justice Department and FBI to continue the investigation. So, on
one hand, I think, you know, people are applauding the fact that he`s come
out twice on that he`s come out ahead of the Missouri governor which is
really unexplainable at this point. That at the same time he`s had so many
conversations about this topic.

And so, obviously, it hasn`t necessarily changed the way police officers
look at African-American youth. It hasn`t changed the way that private
citizens look at black youth. And so, I think there needs to be a much
more substantial and much more rigorous, not just conversation but at this
point real policy that`s directed towards protecting our most vulnerable

DYSON: What about that Goldie Taylor? The conversation has been critical,
has been insightful, has been interesting but Doctor Tillet is talking
about public policy and beyond that perhaps even the immediate
intervention. In Iraq, a minority community is being -- is being besieged
by forces that attempt to undermine it. And then, St. Louis another
community, and you`ve been right there on the ground is under siege as
well. Should the President be a bit more aggressive about intervening and
not believing that he`s a bystander but a participant, politically in terms
of public policy?

GOLDIE TAYLOR, MSNBC CONTRIBUTOR: You know, frankly this president is in a
position of being damned if he does, and damned if he doesn`t. There is no
statement that he could have issued today that would have given a perfect
pitch that would have persuade or made people feel good on both sides of

What I do take issue with, is what`s happened in his most recent press
conference with the governor and no other officials in Missouri. There
seem to be an awful a lot of finger wagging at the citizens, at those
people who were engaged in peaceful protest. And not nearly any for those
officers who maybe guilty of human rights abuses, who maybe guilty, you
know, violating their oath of office. And no real measures that says, that
tomorrow we`re going to take a look back and take an honest look at those
behaviors and hold people accountable for those actions.

And I think that kind of failure at the local state and federal level, I
think it`s frankly appalling. They`ll not know, you know, certainly
journalist were hampered last evening and then had their rights violated.
Two of them that we know we`re arrested. But everyday citizens, people who
don`t carry a press badge were tear gassed shoot in their own yards with
rubber bullets.

And so, I think that we`ve got to take a really honest look at those
things. And I hope that Attorney General Holder will do what we know that
he is capable off and take very hard look at this investigation in terms of
the death of Michael Brown. But choose to investigate the police forces
who where in charge of securing these communities.

DYSON: Dr. Tillet, in light of what Ms. Taylor just said, are we giving
Obama pass though? Because if we`re holding the governor responsible and
local officials responsible, this man has the power of the United States
military behind him, he has the bully pulpit of National consciousness.
So, given what Ms. Taylor has just indicated and I think thoroughly so, we
should even hold President Obama to higher standard perhaps to set the tone
here to make sure that black life is respected and that those people who
have a right of public and peaceful assembly are protected as well.

TILLET: Well, you know, Representative Dan Lewis asked for the National
Guard to be present. He wasn`t asking for more militarization in a sense
of, you know, what we currently seeing, who actually, you know, referencing
his own civil rights activism, in the way in which civil rights activists
had to call on Kennedy and then Johnson to protect activist of from .

TAYLOR: That`s right.

TILLER: . for white race citizens as well as their local law officials.
So, I think the call for stronger federal presence both in terms of the
National Guard. But also, you know, it`s these individual cases on their
own are horrific, but over the last year, much less last two year, as much
as the long history of American criminalization of black youth. We`re just
-- this is a cumulative effect.

And so, what I think people are -- and I hope we don`t lose sight of the
fact that the numbers of black young people piling up, the death of them
piling up is not just a tragedy but at this point it`s a huge problem for
American democracy and equality. And, one of the things -- if you go back
to FDR and his refusal to pass the Anti-Lynching Bill is a huge failure on
the part of FDR.

I would hope that this is not seen as Obama`s legacy on race. But, I think
it`s up to us citizen but more ultimately the president of the United
States to figure out what his legacy on race will be and what policies and
interventions he really wants to meet today and using the government to do

DYSON: What about that Goldie Taylor, the cumulative impact of black
mortality? Black youth under siege, and a black president in the White
House, what more can be done to leverage the authority of that particular
office to intervene in specific fashion on the events that we see going on
here, not only today, but as Dr. Tillet said over the last two, three

TAYLOR: You know, frankly change has to happen at the community level.
You know, for us to sort of parachute in with advocacy and try to, you
know, sort of plant these seeds and then create movements won`t be
sustainable unless and until we can partner with those communities and
those young people frankly who are on the street venting their
frustrations. Unless we can partner with them directly to sow the seeds of
change and then we won`t see any sustainable change .

DYSON: But Goldie Taylor .

TAYLOR: . and that wouldn`t matter who said it .


TAYLOR: . parachute in.

DYSON: Right. But remember, Lyndon Baines Johnson gave speeches from the
White House saying we will intervene, remember when presidents who where in
insisting John F. Kennedy, insisted that we will do something here, it was
-- you`re absolutely right in terms of forging the links with the local
community. But often the federal government had to intervene because the
local municipalities were not paying attention to the civil rights of the
local people there. So, how do we talk about, how do we exonerate.

TAYLOR: I went to high school there, it`s not an I the or but a both ends.

DYSON: No, no, no, absolutely.

TAYLOR: It is also acting and organizing that they be on the street.

DYSON: No, absolutely. All right, Salamishah Tillet and Goldie Taylor,
thank you so much.

Coming up in Pretenders, Rick Snyder tries to be a man of the people and
fail miserably.

Plus we`re talking a closer look at the recent history of excessive force
used by the police.

But next, I`m taking your questions. Ask MED live is just ahead. Stay


DYSON: Welcome back to the Ed Show. We love hearing from our viewers.
Tonight in Ask MED Live. Our question is from Twitter handle Takeadayoff,
I love that.

"We have surveillance cameras everywhere these days. Why aren`t there any
in black neighborhoods to show the truth?"

You know, I`m of two minds here. I get your point on the one hand because
when we need those surveillance cameras that never there, but I tell you
what? Young black life is over surveilled. Michel Foucault was a French
theorist who talked about the surveillance of life. And we can apply this
to African-American people, we are over surveilled. The whirlybird, or the
helicopter, or the police is assaulting our neighborhoods and looking at

And everywhere we go we`re being under scrutiny and surveillance. The
problem is, it`s not to our advantage, we got a find a way to use the ever
present omnipresent camera to our political and social, and how about this
our survival advantage.

Our next question is from Judson. "Is there anything Republicans won`t use
for political fodder?" It don`t seem like as much. They`ll use anything
they can to try grasp an advantage. The problem is we got to do it in a
way that is helpful to the majority of people who are Americans in this
nation. I don`t have much trust in the Republicans.

Stick around, the Rapid Response Panel is next.

Market Wrap.

Stocks gained ground despite some weaker than expected economic data. The
Dow gaining 61 points, the S&P up 8, the NASDAQ adds 18 points.

Earnings from Walmart, the world largest retailer meet analyst`s estimate
but the company lowered its full-year guidance, and said weak spending hurt
sales which were flat for the quarter. And jobless claim rose more than
expected last week, claims jumping by 21,000 to a six-week high.

That`s it from CNBC first in business worldwide.


DYSON: Welcome back to the Ed Show.

The situation in Ferguson, Missouri has brought the issue of over-policing
in America front and center. Today, Congressman Steve Cohen, John Conyers,
and Robert Scott demanded action.

In a letter to the Judiciary Committee they wrote, "The use of overwhelming
force by police against unarmed citizens requires our urgent attention.
It`s imperative the committee convene to examine these issues as soon as

In New York City, the controversial stop-and-frisk policy has been under a
serious debate for years. It`s still currently being fought out in court.
New York City Mayor Bill de Blasio has pledged to reform the program. But
activists in New York say there has been no change.

Just last month, 43-year-old Eric Garner was killed after being put in
chokehold by an NYPD officer. The medical examiner ruled his death as a

Garner suffered from asthma, obesity, and heart disease which played a role
in his death. O Monday, an unarmed man was shot and killed by police in
Los Angeles. Ezell Ford who reportedly suffers from mental illness got in
a confrontation with two officers and allegedly reached for one officer`s
gun. They all fell to the ground when both officers fired on Ford.

This comes as the situation in Ferguson, Missouri continues to worsen.
Outrage continues to grow over the police related shooting death of unarmed
18-year-old Michael Brown. Last night, mark the forth night in a row of
clashes between police and demonstrators.

Meanwhile, police in Ferguson hardly look like police anymore. They`re
armed with military-style assault riffles, armored vehicles and are dressed
in military-style camouflage. These police don`t resemble anyone`s typical
view of a police officer. Officers in Ferguson look like they are straight
off the battle field in Afghanistan.

Joining me now is our Rapid Response Panel, Social Activist Reverend Marcia
Dyson, Columbia University Law Professor Kimberle Crenshaw and Ring of Fire
Radio Host and Americas Attorney Mike Papantonio.

Mike, let me ask you the question. You`re an attorney. Do you see the
over-policing problem in America getting worst?

Ferguson is just a snapshot of this new militarize police culture that`s
sweeping through small towns particularly throughout the south, Michael.

What we`re seeing is the advent of this Dixie land commando police force
that is first appears to be almost a Barney Fife kind of humor and --
except for the fact, it`s so tragic.

DYSON: Right.

PAPANTONIO: These militarized toys of war. Well, they don`t belong in the
hands of police in a town with a population of 20,000 people. In small
town police forces, they shouldn`t be encouraged or equipped to play dress
up in commando ninja outfits and armed with BearCat armored tactical war
vehicles, assault helicopters, and mine-resistant attack vehicles.

This paramilitary equipment in small town police organization in Ferguson,
they have no reason to have this. All it does is escalates the tragedy
that`s always, already taken place. Most of these characters are not
properly trained. They`re only marginally qualified to even know when or
how to use an AK-47 or shot grenades or battering rams and that`s what`s
happening in Ferguson.

DYSON: Sure.

PAPANTONIO: It`s out of control because we`ve armed and like they are part
of some ninja police force.

DYSON: Yeah. Well, Marcia, so what can be done for the police to tap down
and ratchet it back on what they are doing and cool tempers, so that both
sides can participate in a peaceful demonstration?

REV. MARCIA DYSON, SOCIAL ACTIVIST: Well, first of all Michael, I really
felt when I was watching the television. It was like episode from the "He
was the night", and he talked about small-town mildness (ph) of police

And when you see that this is not the first incident that this form of
police brutality, especially on the backs of young black community, but
obviously between and if necessary, culture sensitivity, even though we
lived in the so-called United States of America, there`s still obviously
some authorities who think that black men are not under the stasis of this
flag in which is supposed to unite us.

But why should we be surprise, you know, we have to remember few months ago
a new Hampshire police official called the man in the White House that he
met the criteria of being in, and I`m not talking about something great,
I`m talking about a nonentity. So, why do we think of lesser police
officers who are not trained in communities such as in Ferguson.

DYSON: And Cliven Bundy .

M.L. DYSON: And the Cliven Bundy. Well, you have, actually have a guy on
his camp with armed weaponry telling the police, "Come on at me, I`m going
to shoot you", and, you know, you have conversations and we got remember
what I told you, where people were involved in. So it depends on who has
the weapons but more importantly, our children can`t wear a hoodie. They
can put their hands up in the airs, it`s like -- because sometimes they --
out there, really don`t care. And this revolution is being televised.

DYSON: Kimberle Crenshaw, so the police officers there looks like
soldiers. The aesthetic representation of the police itself is offensive
and intimidating, so talk to us about that. And then pick up on what
Marcia is talking about in terms of, the kind of Cliven Bundy and his
people can come with gun drawn and saying, "If those federal agents come
over here, we`re going to murder them", and like Marcia said, if they got
peace -- we can get a peace of, you know, mind from what`s going on.

think the one thing that we can say at this moment is that this is the
official end of post-racialism. I mean, seeing those militarized weapons
against the African-American community is the embodiment of something
that`s been going on for several years, the militarization not only in
small communities but the occupation of communities of color.

The ACLU just recently released the report and indicated that actually what
we thought was going to be the peace dividend turns out to be a movement to
shock and constraint in communities of color. So now we have a situation
where people are actually using weapons of, black destruction quite frankly

DYSON: Right.

CRENSHAW: .with no oversight whatsoever. And this is coming from the
federal government. These are grants that were given to these small
communities to police to carry on the war on drugs. There`s no
constitutional oversight that -- our Supreme Court has said that the fourth
amendment does not provide protection against racialized policing.


CRENSHAW: So this is the consequence of a punishment industry.

M.L. DYSON: And our communities are traumatized, I was having lunch with
the editor-in-chief of a very famous women`s magazine, and she has two
young sons. And she says I woke up this morning crying for my children,
and the children everywhere especially young black men.

They`re suffering from post-traumatic threat. I`ve been in the largest
refugee camp in the world, Zaatari Jordan. And even though they`re on the
confines -- of United Nations` confine or compound, they still are
traumatized. And my children and our communities are traumatized with this
kind of violence.

DYSON: How about that Mike? I mean the trauma that Marcia has speaks
about is very real. The PTSD and the kind of war-like affects of being
occupied as Professor Crenshaw speaks about is incredibly hard. So, is it
hard to take legal action against police who abuse their power the way they
have been?

PAPANTONIO: It`s not. You just have to be willing to do and somebody in
that community needs to do it. Really, the issues comes down to the
program 10:33 that we`ve just talked about, with the federal government is
arming these character, sending them helicopter, sending them assault
vehicle, sending the AK-47. The point is, all of these characters take on
this Bruce Willis wannabe, this Arnold Schwarzenegger wannabe, shaved
heads, goatee, gun strapped to every appendage of their body, because
that`s what they think policing is supposed to be.

And when you give a big sledge hammer to these people, people on the street
always look like a nail. And these characters are always willing to use
that sledge hammer across the heads of the nail. And that`s what`s
happening. Federal government ...

DYSON: Right.

PAPANTONIO: ... is just as much responsible as those police for giving
them this stuff.

DYSON: No doubt about that. Look, recently Howard -- they I think, Howard
University students twitted out a picture of solidarity with Michael Brown
in the community there in St. Louis with their, all hands hailed up and,
you know, what do you make about that Kimberle and Marcia.


M.L. DYSON: Well, you know, you can`t really put your hands up high enough
Michael. I mean that`s reality.

CRENSHAW: Absolutely.

M.L. DYSON: And the other thing we have to recognize is that the entire
community is being inundated by this. There`s a case of Tomica Wilson who
was a black woman, holding a 14-months-old child when the SWAT team came in
trying to serve a search warrant for a drug defense for a boyfriend, they
shot her dead .

DYSON: Right.

M.L. DYSON: . the 7-year-old girl in Detroit. So men, women and children
in our community are having their lives put on the line by this over

CRENSHAW: And not only the over militarism of the police department but
also the Barney Fife-ing of attitude. We need Andy Griffith kind of
compassion in our community not of the Barney Fife scenario, where people
don`t care, understand the culture differences and the stress. Those
particular communities, our communities are helping around the nation.

DYSON: No doubt. Marcia Dyson, Kimberle Crenshaw and Mike Papantonio,
thank you so much.

Coming up, Rick Snyder`s leaky stands on Michigan`s water problem lands him
in tonight`s pretenders.


DYSON: In pretenders tonight, watered down Rick Snyder.

The Michigan governor is coming up all wet again. Torrents of rain blasted
Detroit, creating record floods. Snyder issue to declaration of disaster
in three counties and called in to a radio station to say he knows their
pain. He once had a water problem himself.


GOV. RICK SNYDER, (R) MICHIGAN: You want to try to find a pump and get
your basement pumped out or get some third party to help and you want to
dry out that carpet probably sooner rather than later.


SNYDER: Yes. I`ve been there myself.

BECKMANN: Have you, really?


BECKMANN: So you`ve been through that? A lot of people look at you
Governor Snyder and they go, you know, here`s the rich nerd whose always
had it well because he`s been successful. He`s never been impacted by this
flooding stuff.

SNYDER: Oh, I have been through a lot of things like that, Frank. We just
recently had holes in our roof from a storm damage to our lake house in
terms of -- yes we have a vacation place. We had a limb come down, put
holes in the roof, and had water running through the whole place. Those
experiences are not pleasant ones.


DYSON: Yeah, the vacation (inaudible) gaps and holes huh? The governor
compared at the widespread distraction of homes and possessions in Michigan
with the leaky roof in his vacation house.

If Rick Snyder thinks running is mouth is consolation for a running water,
he can keep on pretending.


DSYON: Welcome back to the Ed Show. We have some late breaking news out
of Iraq. U.S. warplanes and a predator drone launched air strikes today
against ISIS targets northeast if Erbil, destroying two armed vehicles
described as gun trucks and one MRAP.

A heavily armored mine resistant vehicle produced in the U.S, and ceased
from the Iraqi government. Earlier today, Al-Maliki resigned his post as
Iraqi Prime Minister to Haider Al-Abadi.

This historic move comes as the United States was calling for a more
inclusive government in Iraq. Meanwhile, President Obama updated Americans
about the current crisis in Iraq today.

The President said the United States is making progress and it`s targeting
military objectives. He made clear the situation is improving for
thousands of ethnic minorities trapped in the Sinjar Mountains.


OBAMA: Over the last week, the U.S. military conducted humanitarian air
drops every night, delivering more than 114,000 meals and 35,000 gallons of
fresh water. Yesterday, a small team of Americans, military and civilian
completed their review of the conditions on the mountain. They found that
food and water have been reaching those in need and that thousands of
people have been evacuating safely each and every night.

The civilians who remained continue to live aided by Kurdish forces and
Yazidis who are helping to facilitate the safe passage of their families.
So, the bottom line is, is that the situation on the mountain has greatly
improved and Americans should be very proud of our effort.


DYSON: The president went on to say, no U.S. mission will be needed to
evacuate remaining people on the mountain. Meanwhile, the military will
continue to conduct air strikes to protect military advisors and facilities
in Iraq. The United States will continue to provide assistance to Kurdish
and Iraqi forces fighting ISIS.

Let me bring in Colonel Jack Jacobs, Medal of Honor recipient and MSNBC
military analysis. So colonel, what did the U.S. strikes do today? Did
they really help our situation in Sinjar or not?

JACK JACOB, MSNBC MILITARY ANALYST: Well, all strikes do. Our military
people are looking through intelligence, over head intelligence on the
ground, intelligence to find pockets of ISIS towed howitzers, MRAPs like we
saw today. Trucks, gun trucks, machine guns, groups of ISIS soldiers in
platoon size and larger in assembly areas and strike them with position-
guided ammunitions. That usually will keep them away.

Having said all of that, it`s OK for today and maybe yesterday and maybe
even tomorrow. But it also suggest we`re going to have to keep on doing it
which is why I think the president is trying to manage expectations,
telling everybody don`t -- not so fast, we`re going to be on this for a
while because we are.

DYSON: Let me ask you a question. There are some people who are
suspicious. Well, advisor is really a soldier under a different name,
doing the same thing. Tell us really what in advisory and so what is their
function on the ground there?

JACOB: Well, whoever said that is absolutely correct. As a matter of fact
I spent a long time in Vietnam as an advisor. I advice the second
battalion, 16th regiment and 9th infantry division, I was a senior advisor
to the first airborne battalion at Vietnamese airborne division and I spent
almost 100 percent of my time fighting bad guys.

DYSON: Yeah.

JACOB: To be sure I gave advice to my counter parts, I controlled air
strikes, I assisted them in teaching him how to train his people but at the
end of the day, when they get in to combat the advisor is in combat along
side the troops he`s advising. So we should make no mistake about it. We
don`t have a bunch of people with typewriters out there, who at the first
sign of incoming fire are going to run for the bunker. That`s not going to

DYSON: Is this the creep (ph) people are worried about? Is this the kind
of initial boots on the ground through the notion of advisors and what ends
of happening, is that we get more and more there?

JACOB: Well, I don`t think so. I don`t think that we`ll have more
advisors there. I think that goes without saying is, the Peshmerga gets
better and better, but is it better. As the Iraqi army gets better and
better is it really better? I think you`re going to have more and more
advisors, Special Forces people to train the indigenous forces to do well.
But it does not mean we`re sending the 82nd airborne division and 82nd
armored division.

Conventional troops are not going there. I mean I say that because I`m in
charge, right? I`m not in charge, and anything might change. But when the
president says, no boots on the ground, that`s what he`s talking about.
He`s talking about only having Special Forces and special operations forces
and no conventional force.

DYSON: So, is ISIS going to change their techniques of fighting now that
the U.S. is conducting air strikes?

JACOB: Yeah. I think they`re not going to assemble like they did. I
think they`re going to pull away from areas like Sinjar, Erbil and
population centers because as soon as they amass, we blow them up. They`re
going to have to go back to the drawing board and figure out what they`re
going to do.

I believe what they`re going to do is believe that eventually the United
States is going to get tired and leave or Peshmerga and the Iraqi army is
going to get tired and won`t be nearly as good as they are at the moment or
as good as they`re going to be in the next couple of weeks or couple of
months and they`ll just buy their time.

DYSON: All right.

JACOB: And eventually, they`ll back and we`ll have to send more air

DYSON: All right my friend. Colonel Jack Jacob always breaking it down so
that everybody can understand.

That`s the Ed Show. I`m Michael Eric Dyson in for Ed Schultz. Politics
Nation with Rev. Al Sharpton starts right now. Good evening Rev.


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