THE ED SHOW
September 25, 2014
Guest: Kristen Welker, Katrina vanden Heuvel, Lawrence Wilkerson, Joe
ED SCHULTZ, MSNBC HOST: Good evening Americans and welcome to the Ed Show
live from the Detroit Lakes, Minnesota. Let`s get to work.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He has also, you know, been a lightning rod for
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He will be stepping down.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: One of the three original Obama cabinet officers and
the nation`s first African-American Attorney General.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Republicans have targeted Holder.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s in a signatory to the letter to have Attorney
General Eric Holder resign from his position.
SEN. JOHN CORNYN, (R) TEXAS: Mr. Attorney General, it`s more with sorrow
than -- and regret than anger.
SEN. TED CRUZ, (R) TEXAS: This Department of Justice has demonstrated a
willingness to disregard the law.
CORNYN: You leave me no alternative but to join those that call upon you
to resign your office.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t think President Obama can fire Eric Holder
because that cuts his job creation numbers in half.
ERIC HOLDER, UNITED STATES ATTORNEY GENERAL: While we have very serious
problems, we`re still involved in this political gamesmanship.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: Good to have you with us tonight, folks. Thanks for watching.
Big story at this hour. After six years of service, Attorney General Eric
Holder is leaving his post. Holder is one of the three original Obama
administration cabinet officials still serving and the first African-
American Attorney General in history. Moments ago, President Obama
announced Eric Holder`s plans to step down.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: And over the summer, he came
to me and he said he thought six years was a pretty good run. I imagine
his family agrees. Like me, Eric married up. He and his wife, Dr. Sharon
Malone, a nationally-renowned OB/GYN, have been great friends to Michelle
and me for years. And I know Brooke and Maya and Buddy are excited to get
their dad back for a while.
So this is bittersweet. But with his typical dedication, Eric has agreed
to stay on as Attorney General until I nominate his successor and that
successor is confirmed by the Senate.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: The President praised the job Holder has done as Attorney General
over six years.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: On his watch, federal courts have successfully prosecuted hundreds
of terror cases. He`s rooted out corruption and fought violent crime.
Under his watch, a few years ago, the FBI successfully carried out the
largest Mafia takedown in American history. He`s helped safeguard our
markets from manipulation, and consumers from financial fraud.
And thanks to his efforts, since I took office, the overall crime rate and
the overall incarceration rate have gone down by about 10 percent. That`s
the first time that they`ve declined together, at the same time, in more
than 40 years. So I just want to say thank you, Eric.
Thank you to the men and women of the Justice Department who work day in
and out for the American people. And we could not be more grateful for
everything that you`ve done not just for me and the administration, but for
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: After President Obama`s remark, Holder spoke about his time and
his challenge as Attorney General.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HOLDER: Work remains to be done, but our list of accomplishments is real.
Over the last six years, our administration -- your administration -- has
made historic gains in realizing the principles of the founding documents
and fought to protect the most sacred of American rights, the right to
We have begun to realize the promise of equality for our LGBT brothers and
sisters and their families. We have begun to significantly reform our
criminal justice system and reconnect those who bravely serve in law
enforcement with the communities that they protect.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: For more, let me bring in NBC News White House Correspondent
Kristen, good to have you with us tonight. This of course is a big move by
Eric Holder. He is a very close confidant and friend of the President.
Any indication or word out of the White House who his successor might be?
KRISTEN WELKER, NBC NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Hi Ed. Well thank you for having
me on. At this point, no word on who his successor might be.
I am told that the President has not chosen that successor though. Some of
the names that are being floated around, Kathy Ruemmler, she of course was
White House Counsel here. Don Verrilli is being really tossed around as a
potential frontrunner, he is the Solicitor General. He of course argued
the healthcare law. He got a lot of criticism at the time as you recall,
Ed. But of course the healthcare law was upheld and right now his name is
being talked quite a bit. Also Deval Patrick, Governor of Massachusetts.
So there are number of names that are being battered around. I`m trying to
squeeze it out of this White House. I haven`t been able to get the short
list yet but those are some of the names and you heard the Attorney General
say that he would stay on until the President does name a successor.
He gave a little bit of a timeline, he said for a few months. So I think
this is something that we can expect not to happen necessarily over the
next few days. But you`d to imagine that President Obama is feeling some
pressure to name a replacement. Of course, we are heading into the
midterms, Republicans trying to take back the Senate. If that happens, it
could make a very difficult for this President to get whoever he nominates
So, you would anticipate that President Obama`s going to try to get someone
through before there is any potential change of the Senate. If that were
to happen, we should say that White House Press Secretary Josh Earnest was
ask about this during a gaggle on Air Force One, he said he fully
anticipate the Democrats are going to hold on to the Senate. Not a big
surprise that he would say that but he underscored the fact that the
President`s priority is to choose the right person for the job.
SCHULTZ: OK. Kristen Welker at the White House tonight. Thanks so much
for joining us.
WELKER: Absolutely, thank you.
SCHULTZ: You know that Eric Holder was doing a good job because the
Republicans always wanted him to resign. I mean, this man was an attorney
general. During his tenure as attorney general, Republicans attacked this
In June of 2012, Holder was the first sitting cabinet official to be held
in contempt of Congress. It was an unprecedented move. Republicans passed
the measure because Holder did not comply with the subpoena for documents
relating to the Fast and Furious investigation which was bogus. Some
Democrats walked off the House floor in protest, embarrassed.
After the Department of Justice refused to prosecute Holder, Republicans
filed a civil suit against them. Republicans attacked Holder on the IRS
scandal. They attacked him over the prosecution of the Boston Marathon
bombers. Republicans have accused this man of helping to commit voter
fraud. Texas Governor Rick Perry, who has no credibility, has accused
Holder of purposely inciting racial tensions in America.
The Attorney General has been attacked every step over the way.
Today Republicans -- well, they weren`t going to let Holder go peacefully
at all. They slammed his resignation on Twitter. Senator David Vitter
from Louisiana tweeted, "Anyone sad to see Eric Holder stepping down as AG?
Not me. I can`t think of any AG in history who has attacked Louisiana more
than Holder." Obviously, he is talking about oil regulations.
Congressman Pete Sessions tweeted out today, "Now that Eric Holder is
resigning, my hope is that the next Attorney General respects the rule of
Congressman Jeff Duncan jumped in tweeted, "Good riddance Eric Holder.
Your disregard for the Constitution of the United States will not be
Along with all of that congressional reaction not to be outdone is Fox
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MELODY MENDEZ, FOX NEWS CO-HOST: He was one of the most divisive
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Unethical...
MENDEZ: ... interest man in America. Unethical. He didn`t enforce the
laws on ObamaCare. He was droning terrorist without a trial. Well, he was
giving them trials in Downtown, Manhattan. He ran the DOJ much more like
the Black Panthers would.
That is a fact.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don`t...
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: You consider today`s reaction a fitting sendoff after six years
of unprecedented attacks on the Attorney General. No doubt.
For more, let bring in MSNBC Political Analyst and Georgetown Professor
Michael Eric Dyson, Editor of the Nation Magazine, Katrina vanden Heuvel
and also MSNBC National Reporter Trymaine Lee. Great to have all of you
with us tonight.
Katrina, you first. I will remember Eric Holder being the AG during the
age of voter suppression and the relentless attack on voting rights in this
country which I think pretty much blind-sided him and really hung over his
administration at the Department of Justice for a number of years. How
will you remember and how important was this man to the Obama
KATRINA VANDEN HEUVEL, THE NATION MAGAZINE EDITOR: I think his greatest
achievement, Ed was in revitalizing the civil rights division of the
Department of Justice which we -- and let`s not forget it was gutted (ph),
was in shambles at the end of the George W. Bush tenure. And I think this
country has a long way to go. We`ve come a long way but we are witnessing
and we see it in this smear attacks on Attorney General Holder by the
right. A country -- a Republican Party that is ready to suppress the vote
as ready as Governor Perry of Texas, stood to say that Attorney General was
inciting race rights because he spoke about voter ID programs, said it`s a
new poll attacks.
Eric Holder had a personal visceral connection to the issue of voting
rights. His sister-in-law was one of two African-American students to
successfully integrate the University of Alabama and he understood the
importance. As he said at the press conference, Ed, one of the most sacred
rights in America is the right to vote.
And whoever the successor is, that battle continues unabated because we are
witnessing the worst voter suppression tactics in decades and that fight
must continue. And I think Eric Holder tumults as we can talk about other
issues, go away to prosecute banks quite universally, but on the voting
HEUVEL: ... and on beginning to dismantle the field war and drugs,
Attorney General Holder has a legacy.
SCHULTZ: Michael, your reaction to Holder`s resignation in the degradation
that he has faced in those six years?
MICHAEL ERIC DYSON, MSNBC POLITICAL ANALYST: Well much like Katrina, I
celebrate his extraordinary achievements in the defense of the simple
gesture of voting which is the bedrock of democracy. But make no mistake.
This man is one of the most remarkable politicians of our time, certainly,
one of the most remarkable black men, one of the two most powerful black
men ever -- President Barack Obama and Attorney General Eric Holder.
And the assaults upon him has been underestimated -- is by the white left
and by broader Americans which -- who don`t understand I think sufficiently
the degree to which the vicious assaults upon him has been so racially
driven along with vicious ideology that he has become a kind of whipping
boy for the President and a substitute and a symbolic, you know, a symbolic
whipping boy because they couldn`t to Obama so they got to Holder.
And some of the unprincipled assaults upon his reputation and the attempt
undermine him at every step made him even more identifiable by the broad
masses of African-American people who love him. I was at the 50th
anniversary at the March on Washington and Eric Holder got in an
incredible, incredible applause there.
Wherever he goes. I`ve been with him at concerts and the like and the man
has been received as a rock star. Why? Because the average ordinary black
person gets that this man has been a substitute for the President in many
ways and in many ways has gone far beyond him to strike out on territory
about representing the interest of the broader universal democracy but also
appealing to those interests that are specific to his community. He was
both a race man and a representative of the State at the same time.
SCHULTZ: Trymaine, I remember the impact during the Ferguson, Missouri
story as it unfolded in the intense coverage and I -- give us in a sense of
how he was received down there and put that in terms of just how he was
received as Attorney General. I thought he had a tremendous impact on that
community when he was down there.
TRYMAINE LEE, MSNBC NATIONAL REPORTER: Certainly and when that Fox
commentator says that he ran the DOJ like a Black Panther, I think that`s
almost laughable. But he`d certainly created this breeze between the
common general black experience and the White House and the administration.
And when you`re talking about Trayvon Martin case, you`re talked about
Ferguson, when so many people felt disaffected, disconnected that they
weren`t being heard, but then they see Attorney General Eric Holder say, "I
am the Attorney General of the United States but I`m also a black man.
They are also -- I understand and I understand the mistrust." That goes a
long way especially when you`re talking about on the ground in Ferguson
when they feel that the local leaders and local law enforcement and the
nearly all-white city leadership are not hearing and heeding their concern,
their needs, and demands.
It certainly went a very long way.
HEUVEL: You know, I wanted to...
SCHULTZ: Katrina, as -- go ahead.
HEUVEL: ... I was going to say picking up on Michael Eric Dyson`s point.
The opposition to the President has been so staggeringly racially framed
that it is the case certainly that the Attorney General became kind of the
heat shield or the lightning rod because Attorney General Holder spoke more
passionately, more aggressively about what`s his role, about structural
race issues in this country whereas the President has spoken in more
Holder understood that unless we begin to dismantle mass incarceration in
this country and unless we begin to take on the field drug war, millions of
African-Americans are going to be consigned to a life that isn`t part of
toward a more perfect union.
So I think Holder has played a very important role and I know he has a
commitment as he said at the press conference to continue to work to bring
together communities of color with law enforcement to find ways of bringing
that dialogue together. That isn`t just interpersonal which is also
valuable but it touches and takes on the structural forces which -- by the
way the right isn`t that stupid. They knew what was Holder was trying to
do and they are very tied to ensuring that racism is not taken on
effectively as they sound like a pale male in stale party of a different
SCHULTZ: Michael Eric Dyson, he did not prosecute anyone on Wall Street
and when you talked about the white left, I think there was a tremendous
amount of outrage that Wall Street got off Scott-free. Is that part of his
legacy in fairness?
DYSON: Well look, I understand that they are, you know, that they are
disgruntled men with him in that regard though, you know, he brought gold
and sex and other people to the bar but again, look at this -- look at the
comparison here. If Barack Obama had come into office in his first year
and allowed the banks to fail, there was no hit line that he can use to
redeem himself or the reputation not only of his administration but of a
future black presidency or black politicians.
So look at the double-bind therein. Yeah, we want to go after aggressively
Wall Street, the economic interest that have reinforced economic and
equality in this country but the reality is that if the banks fail, then
the reputation of all black politicians are -- it shouldn`t be but it is.
So I think Eric Holder in apportioning his, if you will, social conscience
and the role and responsibility of the Attorney General, though he did
enormously important things across the board not only in voting rights, not
only civil rights but in the a range of other areas.
I think that for the -- to the yeoman`s work that he did and for the
representation of the broad swift of justice, he still did an incredible
job and one that is worthy of not only acknowledgment but worthy of
studying just how effective he was in the face of such vicious opposition.
SCHULTZ: Well I`m sure we can expect one heck a flight on the Senate for
no matter who President Obama nominates to succeed what I think has been a
stellar performer as attorney general for the United States of America.
Michael Eric Dyson, Katrina vanden Heuvel, Trymaine Lee, good to have you
with us tonight. I appreciate your time.
Coming up, a video footage has been released showing a South Carolina
police officer shooting an unarmed black man. The Rapid Response Panel
Plus the humanitarian crisis in Syria is now the world`s largest since
World War II. Colonel Lawrence Wilkerson joins me to talk about that.
Where is the coalition?
We`re right back.
SCHULTZ: Welcome back to the Ed Show. We are in the third day of air
strikes in Syria.
The President is moving forward with the air war against the ISIS while
Congress stands still.
John Boehner wants to pun a debate on military force down the road. In an
interview, Boehner revealed he`d like to wait until 2015 before bringing
the issue to the floor. Meanwhile, the humanitarian crisis in the region
has grown to a historic proportion.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Listen to these numbers. 3.2 million Refugees have
fled from Syria. Double that, six million people are on the run inside
Syria run for their lives. It is bigger than what we saw in World War II.
It is the largest -- Syrians are the largest refugee population in the
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: The consequences to this inaction are severe. Congressional
stalling will only drag us further into the conflict.
Republicans aren`t willing to do anything on the issue except smear the
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DICK CHENEY, FORMER VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNTIED STATES: I think he has a
world view and what he`s found increasingly is that it`s not consistent
LIZ CHENEY: So the President -- he laid out a fantasy for the American
people and he`s trying to disguise that as a strategy but it`s not going to
keep us safe.
CHENEY: The threat is increasing and our capacity to deal with that is
decreasing because of what`s happening to the U.S. military. The massive
reductions on the budget, the fact that we`ve got four combat ready
brigades out of 40 in the U.S. army...
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: Republicans are talking like they`d rather see the President fail
than destroy ISIS. If there were any voices of descent when the troops
were sent to Iraq back in 2003, Dick Cheney and Republicans would have said
that you were emboldening the enemy. That`s what was thrown to Tom Daschle
at the time when he questioned if we were doing the right thing.
Joining me now Colonel Lawrence Wilkerson, Former Chief Of Staff, Secretary
of State Colin Powell, and professor at the College of William and Mary.
Colonel, good to have you with us tonight.
Do we have -- and I`d like you to speak to a moral obligation that we have
from this coalition -- to help the humanitarian crisis which is unfolding
not only because of what ISIS is doing but also because of the bombing that
has taken place? Sort this out for us.
LAWRENCE WILKERSON, FORMER CHIEF OF STAFF: Yes, I think we do. Let me say
it first, I just can`t resist this, Ed. You said Former Vice President
Cheney talking about the state of the army.
His figures aren`t correct but that`s usual with Dick but he is talking
about an army and for that matter Marine Corps too, that if it`s in bad
shape, it`s in bad shape because he virtually murdered it in Iraq for a
decade. So I just can`t get away without saying something about that.
The humanitarian crisis.
SCHULTZ: Well, it`s interesting how -- It`s interesting, Colonel how the
Cheneys are always the ones to come out and attack President Obama. It`s
never Republican leadership. It`s almost as if he`s on the assigned
mission from the conservative right to be out there first and as furious as
he possibly can to make sure the country knows that Obama is the problem.
It`s been that -- He was the first one in 2009 when President Obama was so
high in the ratings and everybody was so excited that we were going to have
hope and change, he had just been scorning (ph) this President. The first
Republican come out was Cheney. And it`s always been the case that way.
It`s almost his like it`s orchestrated.
You accurately point out, you know, what a problem he was for the country.
But because of this policy we have and because of what ISIS is doing and
what the after math of Iraq has given this country, don`t we have even a
greater problem that`s on the horizon if we have a moral commitment to that
WILKERSON: We do. And let me just -- let me give you an anecdote. I was
in Italy recently and happened to meet with a member of the Jordanian Royal
Family, an old friend of General Powell`s and we talked and one of the
things he told us was that every Jordanian home virtually every home in
Jordan now has a refugee or a refugee family in it. Think about that for a
We`re talking about a country that`s small, a country that`s relatively
stable in normal times but we`re talking about a country that is being just
by the presence of these refugees and in it`s midst destabilized.
Look at Lebanon. We`re talking about the same thing. Take a look at
Northern Iraq where the Kurds had to accept an inflow of Kurd something
like 200,000 or so there. And take a look at Turkey, a NATO ally which is
playing a dangerous game with its Kurdish population as it tries to keep
Kurds from crossing the boarder into Syria to defend its people against the
Islamic State Forces. At the same time, it`s got people pouring in to
Turkey, mostly Kurds, who are oppressed by those forces.
So this is a very...
WILKERSON: ... complicated situation about which I -- as far as I can
tell, we`re not doing very much at all.
SCHULTZ: We`re not doing anything. And Boehner says he doesn`t want to do
anything until after the first of the year to 2015, the lame-duck session
won`t have anything to say about it. You know, that`s the rest of October,
November, December, and maybe in the January depending on how they feel
about their power if they get to Senate.
It looks like the United States is being set up to be a real bad player
here. How do you resettle six million people and go for months without
WILKERSON: That`s a good question. I don`t think you do and to leave it
all to the United Nations and their refugee agencies is just preposterous.
The United States should be doing the land share of the work here if it
really cares about some of its key allies and if it really cares about the
region because this problem is every bit as serious as the 30,000 or so
fighters that the CIA now says the Islamic State has. It`s every bit as
In fact, I would submit it`s probably more serious. It has the capacity to
not just present us with a massive humanitarian disaster but also as I said
destabilize key countries in the region not at least the way to Jordan and
SCHULTZ: Colonel Wilkerson, I`m going to address this later on this
broadcast tonight but I want to give you a chance to comment on a story
that`s unfolding from the new Iraqi Prime Minister who is talking about
attacks possibly on the United Kingdom and the United States.
And some are saying that those -- that information simply is incredible.
Are we ever going to be on the same page globally when it comes to
intelligence? Intelligence is the key to this whole thing. It`s easy to
get wrong and it`s awfully hard to get right.
Aren`t we -- and let me ask you this from your experience. If we`re going
to have to big coalition that`s going to work together, doesn`t
intelligence become even a greater challenge than what it`s been in the
past? If you got a prime minister who is in the mix and Iraq saying things
that others in the coalition are saying is hard wash?
WILKERSON: Yes, Ed. It becomes extremely important not just because of
what you just animated but also because some of the members in the
coalition are playing a double game here if not a triple game. For example
you got the Saudis actually supporting the Islamic State Forces, indeed one
could argue they generated them in the first place and at the same time now
pitching in with this so-called coalition.
So, yes, intelligence is important and I must tell you that my experience
over 40 years with the U.S. Intelligence is that over the last decade --
decade and a half, it`s gotten progressively worst. That concerns me
because let`s just face it, smart bombs are smart. They`re accurate. No
doubt about it. But they are no better than the intelligence which directs
And my experience with the Intelligence has been maybe 40 percent of the
time, it`s wrong. That`s a lot of dead people on lot of wrong targets and
lot of money expended when the intelligence is wrong. So you`re right. It
is a key to this entire operation.
SCHULTZ: Colonel Lawrence Wilkerson, always great to have you with us here
on the Ed Show. I appreciate your time tonight, sir. Thank you so much.
WILKERSON: Thanks for having me.
SCHULTZ: Coming up, another unarmed black man shot but a police officer in
Trymaine Lee and Mike Papantonio join us to discuss this unbelievable video
tape and situation. What are these men doing wrong and why did the cop
Stay with us. We`re right back.
SCHULTZ: Coming up on the Ed Show, police in South Carolina have released
video of an officer shooting an unarmed black man at a traffic stop. This
has ignited a new national conversation on race. Why did this happen?
Rapid Response Panel weighs in.
Stay with us. We`re right back.
JANE WELLS, CNBC MARKET WRAP: I`m Jane Wells with your CNBC Market Wrap.
The Dow plunged 264 points. It`s worth performance in two months. The S&P
fell 32 and the NASDAQ tumbled 88.
Now, one reason Apple share is taking a hit, they were down 3.8 percent
after a complaint said the iPhone 6plus bad with normal use although Apple
saying it only actually happen in nine people plus a software glitch that
disabled some of the new phones.
Applications for unemployment rose less unexpected last week. Up only
about 12,000 and gas prices may drop a little $3 a gallon for most of the
country by the end of the year. The national average right now is 335.
That`s it from CNBC, first in business worldwide.
SCHULTZ: Welcome back to the Ed Show. On September 4th, South Carolina
Highway Patrol Officer Sean Groubert pulled over Levar Edward Jones for a
seatbelt violation. These all unfolded in Columbia South Carolina. A
newly released dash cam video shows exactly what happened next. What
you`re seeing here is very disturbing.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEAN GROUBERT, HIGHWAY PATROL OFFICER: Can I see your license, please?
Get out of the car. Get out of the car. Get on the ground. Get on the
LEVAR EDWARD JONES: I just got my license. You said get my license. I
got my license, right here. That`s my license, right here.
GROUBERT: Put your hands behind your back. Put your hands behind your
back. Put your hands behind your back.
JONES: What did I do, sir?
GROUBERT: Are you hit?
JONES: I think so. I can`t feel my leg. I don`t know what happened. I
just grabbed my license.
GROUBERT: Breaks on 866901052.
JONES: Why did you -- why did you shoot me?
GROUBERT: Well, you dove head first back into your car.
JONES: I`m sorry.
GROUBERT: Then you jump back out. I`m telling you get out of you car.
JONES: I`m sorry. I didn`t hear two words.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: Levar Jones was unarmed. There was not a weapon in the car.
Jones put up his hands. Police say Jones was hit in the hip with a bullet
and he`s now recovering after a stay in a hospital. The trooper was fired
last Friday and arrested Wednesday night for assault and battery of a high
and aggravated nature. The charges carry a maximum sentence of up to 20
years in prison.
This summer, we have witnessed several cases of police officers using
deadly force on unarmed black men. What makes this case stand out? Is the
officer was swiftly fired and now faces criminal charges?
Joining me now the Rapid Response panel, Trymaine Lee, msnbc.com national
reporter and also America`s Attorney Mike Papantonio, host of the Ring of
Fire Radio show. Great to have both of you with us tonight.
Mike, you first...
MIKE PAPANTONIO, RING OF FIRE RADIO HOST: OK.
SCHULTZ: ... As an attorney, what do you make of this video? How damaging
is this video and how telling is it?
PAPANTONIO: Well, it tells us that Sean Groubert, quality police officers
are all over the country, first of all, poorly trained, unqualified act,
rationally under stress which they should be trained to do and a little too
easily frightened to be permitted to carry a gun. And a guy like this
makes it tough for all the police officers who are qualified.
Look, we have a camera here that recorded as you pointed out, no signs of
provocation, no signs of aggression by Jones, a man stopped for a seatbelt
violation. The only thing that went right in -- that incompetent officer
clown act was if there was a camera rolling where the shooter couldn`t make
some half-baked story up about the victim reaching for a gun or the victim
being aggressive or belligerent.
The move towards requiring police body cameras is the way to solve this
problem where we can actually have a legitimate picture of what happened.
Unfortunately, this is becoming less and less rare. Fortunately, the guy
was poorly trained because he fired four shots and only hit Jones with one
of them, that shows the exactly how poorly trained he is. He was firing
him from about 25 feet. But it`s becoming an epidemic problem and it`s bad
for the police officers who really do a great job out there everyday to see
a video like this.
SCHULTZ: Yeah. Trymaine, why do you think this case is different? Is it
the video tape?
LEE: I think it`s the video tape which as we have calls arising from all
across the country saying that the police need to be, you know, wearing
body cameras. It`s the video tape. It`s that there was no simply no
provocation but then when you hear him on the ground saying, what did I do
wrong? What did I do? And he`s confused.
So imagine how often things go right and there is no camera where all one
would have to say that he reached for a gun or something else happened.
And so I think this is exactly why people all across the country are
clamoring and demanding that there`ll be more accountability for police
action but also, these body cameras to capture exactly these kinds of
SCHULTZ: Because of the history that has gone on between law enforcement
and black males in this country, I think you`d see two people on video tape
who are really scared. The cop really didn`t know what to do and the kid
didn`t know what to do. The guy was so intimidated by the police officer.
He had his hands up. He went so quickly into the car to get his drivers
The cop thought that he was going in to get a firearm. Now, Mike, if
that`s not stereotyping, I don`t know what it is. Oh, here is a black guy.
He`s going back into the car. He`s probably got a gun.
Damn it. I`m going to shoot him.
I mean, this is a mindset I think in the South then if I`m wrong on that,
tell me. But things like this continue to happen. All of this over a
seatbelt violation. Pap, your thoughts?
PAPANTONIO: Ed, heavily in the South, I lived down here half of my whole
life. I`d like to say that it`s certainly not a problem and unique to the
South but it`s huge down here.
Trymaine brought up the idea for the camera. It can be a small as a
fountain pen cap. They wore on glasses directly on the uniform. They can
be incorporated right into the badge that they wear in.
And here`s the point. It protects the officer from becoming a victim to
allegations of bad conduct. It protects the individual from being arrested
by some heavy handed thug, incompetent buffoon like we`d just saw here.
Some poorly trained police officer.
There are no conflicting accounts when you have a camera. It`s no he says,
she says narrative.
PAPANTONIO: The cost of the camera is not an obstacle. This is what
protects the black man being arrested in that kind of situation. Yes, his
reaction was exactly what you said. He was frightened. He reached into
his car immediately and then the poor training of this police officer comes
right into play.
SCHULTZ: Well, he was told to get his license. What if -- Trymaine, if he
had put his hand in his pocket? Would the cop have thought he was putting
his hand on his pocket to get a gun?
LEE: I can`t summarize and suspect on what could`ve happen but I think the
argument on all is this, you know, folks would have paint a broad brush and
say that`s the attitude of some of these young black men that you need to
pull your pants up. You need to not dress or act like a thug. But even in
moments where you do everything right and you follow a command, you follow
orders, these kinds of thing happen as far too often. And one thing that
is striking is he`s on the ground, he`s saying sorry to the police officer.
He`s saying sorry...
LEE: ... you told me to get my license. He said sorry...
SCHULTZ: Yeah. And he`s been shot.
LEE: ... after being shot and he`s saying sorry.
SCHULTZ: Yeah. Well, actually, I think he`s really smart saying that
because he thinks probably the cop is going to shoot him again...
PAPANTONIO: That was exactly why we`re asking...
SCHULTZ: ...His best offense to say that I`m sorry at that point because
the guy shot him for no reason. I`ll tell you what, it is just absolutely
amazing to me and I feel sorry for the cop, I do. What brought him to that
mindset? Poor training.
Trymaine Lee, Mike Papantonio, great to have both of you with us tonight.
Coming up, the latest on the terror threats against subway systems in
France and the United States.
Keep it here. We`re right back.
SCHULTZ: How credible is the threats? The State Department is weighing in
on a warning about a plot on a possible New York subway attack. Details
ahead here on the Ed Show.
SCHULTZ: Welcome back to the Ed Show. We`re following breaking news. Top
U.S. security officials of the FBI say claims by the Iraqi Prime Minister
about a plot to threaten subway systems simply are not true. Iraqi Prime
Minister al-Abadi told reporters at the U.N. that his country has uncovered
intelligence about planned attacks in New York City and Paris. Federal
officials say that there is no U.S. intelligence to back the claims of but
they are still taking any threat very seriously.
Joining me tonight, Steve Clemons, MSNBC Contributor and Editor At-Large at
the Atlantic. Also with us tonight, a Former Pennsylvania Congressman and
Admiral Joe Sestak. Gentlemen, good to have you with us.
Steve, what are we dealing with here? What`s the latest you`re hearing on
STEVE CLEMONS, MSNBC CONTRIBUTOR: Well, it commit to -- I mean hearing
what you`ve just reported is that in a side-clustered United Nations
through a group of journalist, Prime Minister al-Abadi shared this somewhat
shocking news. And either he has heard through his own hierarchy in
command, some intelligence that we have not processed yet but it may be al-
Abadi`s first failure as a partner in dealing with things with countries
like the United States because there`s a protocol in sharing and vetting
and kicking the tires of this kind of information so that you don`t
inadvertently create far greater harm in disclosing something that`s in
fact not true. So this is very well could be Prime Minister al-Abadi`s
first big fumble.
SCHULTZ: Admiral, you work in the Intelligence for many years with the
navy, how do you unfold this? I mean, why would a new prime minister say
something that coalition partners couldn`t confirm? It doesn`t seem like
there`s a lot of people on the same page here.
JOE SESTAK, FORMER U.S. NAVY ADMIRAL: Well, I think that we should
approach this as trusting that the information might be good but verifying
whether it is and it seems like the FBI is telling us they may have done
that because I mean, we may have great vacuums -- cleaners in the sky
soaking up the information and intelligence organizations but we could miss
On the other hand, let`s recognize that there are parties out there in the
Middle East that would like to cement our involvement with ISIS to the
public by leaking a false piece of information like this. You know, it
sort of like Harry Truman said about on Economist and it`s true about
intelligence officers. There`s no one-armed intelligence officer because
on the one hand and the other hand because it`s an art, it`s not a science.
So I think we just need to verify this and continue on with businesses as
SCHULTZ: Well, and Admiral, let me ask you this about process as Steve
talked about. Does the United States have a good enough relationship to go
back to the Iraqi Prime Minister and say, give us a name, what was your
process? Was it a recording? Was it a hearsay? Was it third person? I
mean, it would seem to me that our intelligence people would be able to get
to the root of this pretty fast if there`s a good coalition partner there?
SESTAK: I think they can get very fast to the probability that this is
true or false and there`s always going to be some doubt about anything you
get in an intelligence but I think where Steve as taking us is probably
more right that this is probably a bad piece of information with the Prime
Minister stepped on it purposely or not but heaven forbid, that sometimes
that one little piece of information should never be dismissed although I
think the odds are, yeah, with our process, we validated that this is
probably almost assuredly a bad piece of info.
SCHULTZ: Well, it`s reminded me a curve ball, stuff out of Iraq that comes
out of there that isn`t always accurate. And Steve, how is the American
public supposed to react to this when they hear this kind of stuff, yet
we`re told these coalitions are so tight and working so closely together?
CLEMONS: Look, these are tensed times. We`re engaged in bombing campaigns
with allies and partners in the region. ISIS has threatened us in lots of
different ways. We just attacked an al-Qaeda affiliated group named
Khorasan whose sole purpose was to try and attract Westerns and design
plots to attack the West and of the United States within their borders.
So, you know, it plays into that that concern and that fear that people
But what bothers me about the al-Abadi comments is people forget that we
have now about 1,600 U.S. military personnel in Iraq protecting that man`s
life and trying to keep Baghdad safe and trying to do good things inside
Iraq. There`s more than enough intelligence apparatus that the United
States has directly on hand inside Iraq that what he did in my view was
SCHULTZ: What`s your reaction to that, Admiral? That`s a very profound
point and a great point.
SESTAK: Well, it is a great point but we also have to recognize this. The
dangers to our homeland and a global war terror come from over there and as
good as we are, we actually need allies and friends and it`s a pretty bad
neighborhood and sometimes our friend today is not as friendly tomorrow.
This intelligence we got to takedown Zarqawi for example. The head of the
al-Qaeda in Iraq came from the Jordanian intelligence agency that gave us
that man. So we`re going to have to make sure we understand. To your
point Ed, that processes and working with our allies and friends and those
who weren`t so allied with us and friends and those that actually created
ISIS like Saudi Arabia and Qatar, at times we`ve got to trust but verify
because we need...
SESTAK: ... intelligence from others also.
SCHULTZ: And on the other hand, we don`t want to embarrass or -- and
alienate the Iraqis. So they kind of are pretty important on what we`re
doing here right now. Steve Clemons and Joe Sestak, great to have both of
you with us tonight. I appreciate your time.
CLEMONS: Thanks so much.
SCHULTZ: That`s the Ed Show. I`m Ed Schultz.
Politics Nation with Reverend Al Sharpton starts right now.
Good evening, Rev.
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