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PoliticsNation, Friday, September 19th, 2014

Read the transcript from the Friday show

September 19, 2014

Guest: Dana Jacobson; Joy Taylor; Shaunna Thomas, Clint Van Zandt, Jim
Cavanaugh, Alvin Poussaint

REVEREND AL SHARPTON, MSNBC ANCHOR: Good evening, Ed. And thanks to you
for tuning in.

Tonight`s lead, the NFL commissioner breaks his silence. Under mounting
pressure to speak publicly about the scandals hanging over the league,
Roger Goodell faced the media for the first time in ten days. In a 43-
minute conference, he says he`s forming a new personal conduct committee,
and vowed all players will go through a training program. And he said he`s


ROGER GOODELL, NFL COMMISSIONER: Unfortunately, over the past several
weeks, we`ve seen all too much of the NFL doing wrong. That starts with
me. I got it wrong in the handling of the Ray Rice matter. And I`m sorry
for that. I got it wrong on a number of levels, from the process that I
led, to the decision that I reached.


SHARPTON: He also said he did not consider resigning after criticism on
his response to the Ray Rice scandal. But since he last spoke about that,
the league has been plagued with more scandals and mounting questions on
NFL policies and their internal investigation. Today, we didn`t always get
direct answers to those questions.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: You`ve had pretty extreme unilateral power
in deciding discipline. How willing are you to give up some of that power?
And do you think that would be the right thing for you to do?

GOODELL: Well, Rachel, as I said in my statement, everything is on the

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: What exactly did Ray Rice tell you what
happened in the elevator? And how did, what you thought in your mind
happened differ from what we saw on the video?

GOODELL: Well, Judy, a couple things. First off, as I said that we got
new information --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: Commissioner, what did he say? What did he
tell you happened?

GOODELL: Well, the one issue with this is this is now a matter of appeal.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: But what about transparency? You are
talking about transparency. Why not say what he said?

GOODELL: Well, I`m telling you right now, that it`s inconsistent with what
he told us.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: If the 32 owners had a vote today about
whether you should keep your jobs, what do you think the results would be?

GOODELL: Well, that`s a hypothetical that I can`t deal with.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: Has Robert Mueller interviewed you? It`s
been a week since you announced this independent investigation.

GOODELL: That`s something that Robert Mueller is going to have to


SHARPTON: The NFL is the most powerful sports league in America. But this
story is bigger than the NFL. Today the commissioner apologized for
mistakes in the past, but there`s still questions about what the changes
will be in the future.

Joining me now is Joy Taylor, co-host of Zaslow and Joy Radio show on
Miami`s 104.3 the Ticket. And Dana Jacobson, host of CBS Sports radio.
Thank you both for being here.


JOY TAYLOR, HOST, Thank you.

SHARPTON: Dana, your reaction to Goodell today, were you satisfied?

JACOBSON: No. And I don`t know that anybody was. But I also don`t think
that we ever would be satisfied with what he said. I think the biggest
miss, he was trying to lead, and he had canned speech, canned emotion, the
lawyerly answers, and people wanted some emotion. More than just an "I`m
sorry." They wanted to hear more than that. And everybody has referred
back to punishment Sean Payton. Sean Payton couldn`t use ignorance as a
reason for why things went wrong with the Saints. They feel that with
commissioner Goodell it`s the same thing. Ignorance isn`t an excuse. So
they wanted I think even just some kind of punishment.

For me, why not say, all right, I`m going to fine myself a year`s salary,
which we know for him is an awful lot of money and $44 million with his
bonuses, or even half of that amount, say, I got it wrong, I`m not above
reproach. You can punish me. I can be punished. Now that maybe up to the
owners. But had he even said that, I think we could have at least sat here
and said, look, he didn`t do everything right, he didn`t answer questions
sort of laid out what the future what they might do, but you would have
felt better that he owned up in a different way, versus just saying "I`m
sorry" again.

SHARPTON: Joy, what do you feel about his performance today?

performance. I thought he said a whole lot of nothing. He was up there
for 40-plus minutes talking about stuff that he`s going to do. I mean, he
was gone. We couldn`t find him anywhere. It is nowhere to be found. In
all that time, you couldn`t come up with an answer. I thought the
questions that were asked of him were for precise and particular and he had
very round-about answers. A lot of, we will do this and we will work on
this and we will change this and we must be better, but there was no direct
answer to really any question, except for when he could get away from it
and say that it`s an appeal or legally he can`t talk about it.

I thought he just gave a very good performance, but we didn`t learn
anything. And I don`t think anyone feels better about it, and that`s

SHARPTON: I think that the thing that she touches on there, Dana, was, as
I watched as much as I could of it, you began wondering, what took you so
long to say this, when you`re not really saying anything that you couldn`t
have said two weeks ago?

JACOBSON: Yes, there was a lot of speculation that because they had taken
nine days since he have done that interview before, they have taken so much
time that maybe there would be more policy in place already, instead of
just saying, I`m going to get to DeMaurice Smith who is in-charge with the
players association together with a bunch of experts and then we are going
to look at the personal conduct policy.

Now, I get it. We`re in this instant gratification world where we assume
everything can be done right away and it does takes some time. But one
concrete thing would have been nice. Even having DeMaurice Smith, having
D. Smith there would have said something like, we`re a little more joint in
forces, we`ve met, we`ve sat down, we talked. And you are wondering, what
have you been doing?

SHARPTON: But Joy, you know, he repeatedly said he was reviewing the
league`s policies and that everything was on the table. Listen to this.


GOODELL: There will be changes to our personal conduct policy. I know
this because we will make it happen. Nothing is off the table. Everything
is on the table. We`re going to make sure that we look at every aspect of
the process of how we gather information.


SHARPTON: But until we learn what those new policies are, won`t the
questions keep lingering, Joy?

TAYLOR: Well, yes, because he didn`t answer any of those questions. He`s
just -- for every question he was asked, he just kept using the same
language. It was very rehearsed. It was very practiced. He basically
could have made a statement and posted it on the league`s facebook and we
would have had all the same answers that we got from the press conference.

The new policies that they`re going to put in place, the changes to the
personal conduct policy, why didn`t you give us anything that you`re going
to change? Nothing was straightforward. And that`s what everyone wanted.

And as like Dana said, you know, you were gone. You had all those time
come out with something, come out with an answer, come out with something
strong. Nothing was strong. It was all very rehearsed, all very PR. And
we didn`t learn anything.

JACOBSON: At the very least, if you have DeMaurice Smith there, I feel
like you could have said, we sat in a room and we don`t have the policies
yet. It is going to take more time because we want to get these experts
together. But we agree that, you know, it has to be more. Something
concrete, one thing.

SHARPTON: But when they come with the policies, it may be overshadowed by
this. has just posted a story that has found, quote, "a pattern
of misinformation and misdirection employed by the Ravens and the NFL."
The article goes on to say, quote, "after the February 15th incident in the
casino elevator, Ravens executives, in particular owner Steve Bisciotti,
President Dick Cass, and general manager Ozzie Newsome began extensive
public and private campaigns pushing for leniency for Rice on several
fronts. From the judicial system in Atlantic County where Rice faced
assault charges to commissioner Goodell ultimately who will decide the
number of games Rice will be suspended from this fall, to within their own
building, where some were arguing immediately after the incident that rice
should be released." Now, this is very, very, very, I think, could be a

JACOBSON: Well, here`s the thing, though. I think anybody who knows the
NFL is not surprised by this. This is what people were saying. You have
security forces. You knew things right away. It was brought up. This
actually might help commissioner Goodell in the sense that it was brought
up that Steve Bisciotti had collateral with the commissioner. Hey, look.
Help me out here, this is a guy who`s been a good guy for us and he did
this horrible thing, but we need him. And by the way, we need him because
he wins games for us. And this is about the game on the field that people
are still watching and we can`t forget that, so it`s not surprising. It`s
shocking to hear and know the extent of it in some ways especially if there
is --

SHARPTON: But it could or could not help Goodell. Joy, you`re just
hearing this as we are reading it to both you and, in fairness, Dana did
not know about this posting. We just got it. But it`s according in the
lobby in whether or not Goodell knew a lot, while they were lobbying him.
I mean, this could be -- it could overshadow everything, according to how
extensive they shared information, and what really went on in this

TAYLOR: Yes, I read most of the article right before we came on. So I
didn`t get through all of it, but I know most of the content of it. And I
think she is right. Most people who are around the NFL know that all of
this went on. I mean, I never thought for a second that Roger Goodell did
not know what happened in that elevator to an exact extent. Now, whether
he saw the video or not, it is irrelevant because you can describe that
video to someone and it can be just as horrifying. So that means nothing.

What do think is that that investigation that was just release by ESPN will
change a lot, especially for the public. Because after you come out with
this very weak press conference where you say nothing strong, and now you
have, you know, an investigation where people are saying, all of these
different people were involved in a cover-up -- a cover-up -- when you are
coming out and not being straightforward is not good for the commissioner.
It is not good at all.

SHARPTON: A pattern of misinformation and misdirection employed by the
Ravens and the NFL. That`s the direct quote. Very powerful words. I
assure you will be following this.

Dana Jacobson and Joy Taylor, I`m going to have to leave it there. Thank
you both for your time tonight and have a good weekend.

TAYLOR: Thank you.

JACOBSON: Thank you, you too.

SHARPTON: Coming up, why the NFL just the start of the conversation about
domestic abuse in America.

President Obama made big news today with a new push on this national

Also, police claim a major break in the disappearance of a Virginia college
student. Could this surveillance video help solve the case?

Also celebrating "the Cosby Show," which debuted 30 years ago this week.
It changed American attitudes and kept us laughing.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I got everything I need, plus $200 left for the month.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You plan to have a girlfriend?




SHARPTON: Domestic abuse isn`t just a football problem. It`s a national
problem. We`ll talk about that next.



GOODELL: We`re like the barter society in several ways. We`re like a
microcosm of society.


SHARPTON: Violence against women is bigger than the NFL. It`s a national
crisis. The CDC says 24 people per minute are victims of rape, domestic
violence, or stalking. The FBI says a rape occurs in the U.S. every six
minutes. And reports show one in five women will be sexually assaulted
while in college. This is a national problem and we all have to change it.

Joining me now is Shaunna Thomas, co-founder of the women`s rights group
ultraviolet and Lisa Bloom, attorney and legal analyst for Thank
you both for being here.


SHARPTON: Shauna, your group flew banners saying "Goodell must go" over
games last weekend. What`s your reaction to his press conference today?

conference is not that different from everybody`s else`s, frankly, which is
that you didn`t hear anything more than we knew before, which is that he is
responding to a lot of public pressure by trying to do what he can to make
it look like he is taking the NFL to a place where they are going to be
dealing with the problem of domestic violence really seriously.

Unfortunately, we and we think a lot of people around the country agree
that he can`t be trusted to do that. He has overseen the NFL and has known
about the problem of domestic violence for years. In fact, there were at
least 50 cases before Ray Rice sort of blew up in which he dealt -- he
basically dealt with them by brushing them under the rug.

This is a person who doesn`t understand the problem of domestic violence,
may understand it now, but his deceptive handling of the case from the
start makes him totally unqualified and just wrong for leading the NFL at
this time, considering what a huge American institution the NFL is.

SHARPTON: But, Lisa, it brings up other areas where we`ve kind of let
things go. For example, lots of people are talking about Alabama federal
judge Mark Fuller. He was arrested on domestic violence. Charges were
made against him last month or made against him last month. But he`s still
getting paid as a judge. The state governor, both senators and all but one
Congress member from Alabama have said he should resign. But he`s still
getting paid. What do you make of this response?

BLOOM: Absolutely. It`s the same kind of disgusting, lenient treatment
from the legal system that ray rice got. Judge Fuller basically got a slap
on the wrist. Really, even less than that. You get a little counseling,
it`s called pretrial diversion, and the whole thing is just wiped clean, as
if it never happened. You don`t even have this on your record. And like
Ray Rice, Judge Fuller assaulted his wife in a hotel, and there`s a
recording of it.

So to me, this points to the real root cause that`s underlying all of this.
And that is, that our legal system is just completely ineffective when it
comes to dealing with domestic violence. I see this in my family law
practice every day. Although everybody says we have no tolerance for
domestic violence. When it comes down to an individual case, people turn
away. They want to blame the victim and they want to just process them to
the system as quickly as possible.

SHARPTON: But are things changing, Lisa?

BLOOM: Not in my opinion. I see this every day. I mean, see this every
day. And especially when you have a wealthy, powerful man. I mean, the
report that you just talked about from ESPN, where the Ravens and NFL
officials, you know, asked for leniency for Ray Rice, that happens all the
time. People just pick up the phone and all of a sudden the criminal
justice system gives somebody a pass.

The NFL couldn`t pick up the phone and get the tape, but they could help
him. They are an accessory after the fact if they did that, to the
domestic violence.

SHARPTON: Shaunna, you know, there`s such a culture of victim blaming
around the issue of domestic violence and sexual assault. I want to play
what vice President Biden said about that today. Listen to this.


question for a woman to ask, what did I do? Never. Get this straight --
never is appropriate for a woman to ask, what did I do? The question is,
why was that done to me? And will someone do something about it?


SHARPTON: How can we change those old attitudes, Shaunna?

THOMAS: Look, a big part of it is culture shift. I mean, I agree
completely that the justice system has a long way to go before we are going
to see real progress and we`re going to see people seeing real justice when
they`re the victims of domestic violence or sexual assault.

But we`re also really talking again about culture change here, where
there`s an attitude, a change that we have to see in which people do not
immediately blame the victim. And that`s why this case around the NFL is
so important. They are a huge, incredibly powerful American institution,
where the players serve as role models for young people. If we aren`t
putting into place, the NFL itself isn`t putting into place the right, the
proper repercussions for engaging if that kind of behavior, then, how are
we going to prevent anybody else from understanding what is right or wrong?

SHARPTON: But, Lisa, the calls are up. The national domestic violence
hotline report that calls have gone from 84 percent since the Ray Rice
video was made public. The hotline is now receiving nearly 1,300 calls a
day. Are women feeling able to talk about what`s happened to them?

BLOOM: Well, you know, nothing good about that statistic. Either domestic
violence is up, or women are talking about it more, either way the answer
has to be prevention. The legal system is broken. Institutions like the
NFL aren`t dealing with this. What we need is to cut this off at the
source. Boys have to be taught that a real man never hits a woman. In
fact, a dad never hits his child with a switch. We have to stop all if
this violence and teach non-violence.

Listen, Martin Luther King had to teach non-violence. There were classes
on how to do it. This is not something that just comes natural to people.
They have to learn peaceful ways to resolve disputes.

SHARPTON: Well, this is not a discussion that we need to in any way short
change. We`re going to stay on it. We are going to keep talking about it.
And we have got to solve it.

Shauna Thomas and Lisa Bloom, thank you both for your time tonight. Have a
good weekend, both of you.

BLOOM: Thanks.

THOMAS: Thank you.

SHARPTON: Still ahead, the desperate search for a missing college student
in Virginia, how could this surveillance tape help solve the mystery?

Also senator McCain flip flops his way back into the "Politics Nation`s"
Got You.

And we`ll celebrate 30 years of the show that made America laugh and
rethink attitudes about family and race?


SHARPTON: Everybody knows the vast majority of Americans do not want to
send ground troops to fight ISIS in Iraq and Syria. Everybody, except
Senator John McCain.


SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: Why is the President insists on continuing
to tell the enemy what he won`t do? Why is it the President of the United
States keeps telling the people that are slaughtering thousands, don`t
worry, we won`t commit ground troops.


SHARPTON: Ground troops in Iraq again? Really? Sixty one percent of
Americans don`t want that. And you know what, just a few weeks ago,
Senator McCain didn`t want it either.


MCCAIN: I do not envision a scenario where ground combat troops are on the
ground. I would explain to the American people that it is in our national
interest to see a stable Iraq, but I would not commit putting American
boots on the ground in order to achieve that.


SHARPTON: He was against it before he was for it. Amazing. The fact is,
American boots on the ground are a bad idea, and that`s not just my
opinion. Robert Gates, a defense secretary to both Republican and
democratic Presidents said this just a few years ago.


ROBERT GATES, FORMER DEFENSE SECRETARY: In my opinion, any future defense
secretary who advises the President to again send a big American land army
into Asia, or into the Middle East or Africa, should have his head examined
as General McArthur so delicately put it.


SHARPTON: I couldn`t have said it better myself. Did Senator McCain think
we wouldn`t notice his flip flop on this security national security issue?
Nice try, but we got you.


SHARPTON: We have breaking news tonight in the case of a missing college
student in Virginia. Hannah Graham disappeared last Saturday just after
1:00 in the morning after texting to friends that she was lost. Police
released two surveillance videos today showing the 18-year-old walking
along a mall, late last Friday night. You can see a man identified by
police as a witness, who started following Hannah, after she passed by.
Police say that man told them he followed her until another man, described
as an African-American with dread locks, came up to her and put his arm
around her. Today police executed two search warrants on an apartment and
a car in connection with the disappearance.


CHIEF TIMOTHY LONGO, CHARLOTTESVILLE P.D.: We have reason to believe she
was inside of a bar on this mall, with an individual who lived on hessian
hills way, whose home we visited this morning. Now people saw her with
that individual in that restaurant. Videotape that you`ve already seen,
people saw Hannah, and people saw him, and people saw them together. And
it`s entirely possible, we believe, that Hannah Graham may have gotten into
his vehicle. A vehicle that we seized pursuant to a search warrant.


SHARPTON: Joining me now is former FBI profiler Clint Van Zandt. Clint,
thank you for being here, first of all.


SHARPTON: Police have seized a car and they`ve identified a man who was
with Hannah that night.


SHARPTON: But they seem to need help from the public. What can you tell
us about where this investigation stands?

VAN ZANDT: Well, you know, Al, the great thing today is we have these
surveillance cameras, not just in New York, and London, but here we are in
middle Virginia. They have the same thing. These cameras have been able
to take this young girl from point A to point B to point C to point D.
What they`ve been able to do now, first we have this white male who said he
follows the victim because she looked like she might be in distress or
lost. You know, that could have been kind of a shaky story.


VAN ZANDT: Because he says then this African-American comes up, and puts
his arms around her. But now evidently, law enforcement is able through
video to put this believed suspect or person of interest, whatever you want
to call him, they put him and Hannah in a bar together, having a drink
together. So that seems to support the witness`s story. What they need
now, Al, is that you hear this police chief, and you`ve never heard a more
passionate plea by a police officer in their life.

I mean, this guy is a father, a police chief. I mean, he cares, obviously
about this situation. What he needs right now is somebody to say, this
suspect and the victim walked out of the bar together, got in the car
together, and drove off. That would say this guy is the last person we
know of in the world that has ever seen the victim. But we don`t have that
right now, and he needs the public`s help to pull this together.

SHARPTON: That`s where I was going. So he needs the public`s help,
because we also don`t know if they get that connection, or what this
witness was really doing. We just -- there`s no one that`s looping this
into, therefore, this is where she started when she was missing.

VAN ZANDT: That`s exactly true. You know, they`re able to come up with
supposition, but supposition doesn`t make an arrest warrant. I mean,
that`s evident because the police have this person of interest in their
hands, and they didn`t have enough to hold him, maybe not enough to
question him, and they had to let him go free. Well, that`s the way it`s
supposed to be. But now law enforcement, public, put this thing together,
either put him leaving with this man, or put her walking out on her own,
but let`s find the next piece of this puzzle as to what happened to this

SHARPTON: All right. Let me ask you stand by, Clint. I want to turn now
to a controversial police shooting in Savannah, Georgia. Police say they
arrested 29-year-old Charles Smith on outstanding warrants yesterday. He
was handcuffed, and put into a police car. Police say he`s then moved his
hands to his front and kicked the window out of the car to escape.
Officers said they noticed that Smith had a gun and that`s when an officer
shot and killed him. Residents staged a peaceful protest last night and
community leaders are asking for a full investigation.

Let me bring in MSNBC`s law enforcement analyst Jim Cavanaugh. Jim, do you
find it strange that officers didn`t find this gun on Charles Smith when
they handcuffed him?

Reverend, it`s a sloppy search. A sloppy physical search of an arrested
person does happen, though. And if those cases do happen where people,
officers, miss guns on a search and then the gun is displayed later. It
also happens where sometimes the person arrested previously to the person
that comes out with the gun in a patrol car was not searched appropriately.
Then someone else is arrested, placed in the back seat, with their hands
behind their back and they feel down in the seat and lo and behold, there`s
a pistol. So that`s happened before. And yes, it does happen, but if it
did happen, it`s a very sloppy search.

SHARPTON: But Clint, he`s handcuffed in the back, but they say he gets his
hands to the front. Then there`s a gun they didn`t see. I mean, what
would be your questions here?

VAN ZANDT: OK. Number one, I`ve seen guys do this. I mean, much more
agile than me, who can get their feet through the handcuffs and get their
hands up front again. But you know, Jim makes a good point, even though
the subject could have had a gun, or the gun could have been in the car,
show me the fingerprints. Show me the DNA of the suspect on -- suspects on
that gun. And more importantly, show me the suspect`s fingerprints on the
cartridges that are loaded in that gun. Show me he had some contact with
that gun prior to the shooting and then maybe you got a case. But this is
one of those CSI cases, Reverend Al, that`s going to hinge on the forensics
right now. Can you put that gun in his possession? And this is something
that ATF does so well. They can take that gun from the time it was
manufactured and bring it forward to the last person who had it.

SHARPTON: What kinds of things will they test for? What will they look

VAN ZANDT: I`m sorry.

SHARPTON: Go ahead, Clint. Clint, what would they be looking for?

VAN ZANDT: Yes, they`re going to have to find fingerprints and DNA and
they`re going to have to find any other physical evidence that will link
that gun to him. And let`s say, put it in his hand. You know, Al, you
hear terrible stories over the last, you know, hundred years of law
enforcement having what`s called a throw down gun, if it`s a bad shooting,
somebody you know, takes a gun and throws it down and makes it look real.
Now we have a way through physical evidence to say if that really took
place, or if this was a gun that was actually touched by the suspect.

SHARPTON: All right, Clint Van Zandt, thank you for your time tonight.
Jim, stay with me for another story we`re tracking tonight.

That massive manhunt for a cop killer on the loose in Pennsylvania. Eric
Frein is now on the FBI`s 10 most wanted list. He continues to evade
police tonight. One week after he allegedly ambushed two police officers,
killing one and leaving the other one wounded. Schools were shut down
again today as police search in a heavily wooded area where they believe
Frein is hiding.


we have reason to believe he`s still in the area, but we want to make sure
that we`re covering every base. We can`t let this fellow get out of this
area because we think he`d be a danger to other members of law enforcement,
as well as society.


SHARPTON: Let`s bring in NBC`s Sarah Dallof from Barrett, Pennsylvania.
Sarah, what can you tell us about the investigation right now?

SARAH DALLOF, NBC NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Well, Reverend, the sun is going
down on the seventh day of searching and as you said, still no sign of
Frein. That is not for lack of trying, though. Two hundred plus law
enforcement officials have been combing this heavily wooded area, looking
at potential hiding spots, we`re talking about vacant vacation homes,
hunting cabins and camp sites. Now people who are frequently in these
woods hunters tell me that they are so thick, it`s very easy to hide
someone, even if you`re not trying.

And if you have military-style training, like Frein reportedly does, it
becomes nearly impossible to detect someone. Now in these communities, in
the surrounding areas, there are signs everywhere that life here is
disrupted. We`re talking about wanted posters on business windows, schools
closed like you said yet again today. And on edge, armed troopers guarding
the state police barracks behind me. That`s the scene of the crime. Now,
once again it reiterate, he has been placed on the FBI`s most wanted list.
That`s really intensified the search if gone from local to national. And
of course there is that increase of the reward Reverend up to $175,000
right now. These are all law messages from law enforcement to Frein that
they`re not giving up.

SHARPTON: Is there a sense of fear in the community right now, Sarah?

DALLOF: People here are definitely on edge, Reverend. You know, you walk
into the coffee shop and people are discussing if they think Frein is in
the area still. You walk into the gas station, and they`re debating as if
he acted alone. This is what people are talking about right now. Now we
talked to some people in the area who say, they don`t really fear for their
own personal safety. They feel that Frein is really focused on law
enforcement. So they fear for the troopers that serve their community.
Others people say they do have concerns for their family`s safety. We
talked to one woman who said last night she couldn`t help it, she keeps
checking out the window. Another man who said he couldn`t help but look
over his shoulder all of yesterday while he was doing yard work. So, this
definitely is a community on edge. And one thing they all agree on right
now Reverend, is that they`re ready for this to be over.

SHARPTON: Jim, you`re an expert on these kinds of things. What questions
do you have? And if you were there on the scene, what are the questions
and points you`d be raising?

CAVANAUGH: Well, I think in the command post they`re going to be doing
those things, Reverend Al. They`ll going to be looking at the behavior and
the plans of Frein. You know, he wants to kill. I mean, he wanted to get
away when he shot the troopers, that`s why he used this tactic of being a
sniper. He`s grown up as a marksman, he simulates war. I mean, he`s in
mission war murder mode. And he`s been in the woods a week. It`s not
happened again for him. You know, he`s eaten, you know, some MREs, or some
beans. I mean, he wants the confrontation.

So I think what`s going to happen, a few different ways it could go down.
He may have set up in a cave, a barn, a vacation house, with some ambush
points in front of it and he wants to draw the police in. If that doesn`t
come within his time frame, he may reach out to a road and shoot at a
cruiser. There`s plenty of police in the area. And so he can easily shoot
at officers or shoot at a radio car and draw the officers in. That`s what
he wants to do. Now absent that, he could also move out and carjack a
vehicle and try to change his location. But he really wants to press that
confrontation. I would not be surprised if you see it soon.

SHARPTON: So it`s a very dangerous situation, where anything -- I mean,
it`s an enormously dangerous situation, particularly for law enforcement.
We`re going to be following this. Sarah Dallof and Jim Cavanaugh, thank
you both for your time this evening.

Coming up, we`ll switch gears and remember a legendary TV show that changed
America and left us laughing. Thirty years of "The Cosby Show," next.


BILL COSBY, COMEDIAN: When I say who is it, and you say who it is.


Who is it?



SHARPTON: Tomorrow marks the 30th anniversary of an American classic, the
first broadcast of "The Cosby Show." The NBC sitcom aired for eight
seasons and focused on the lives of the Huxtables, an African-American
family living in Brooklyn, New York. Bill Cosby played Cliff Huxtable,
husband, father, and doctor. Every week, millions tuned in to watch the
show`s common sense and hilarious take on parenting.


COSBY: What you need to do now is go to the next level, if you want
Justine back.


COSBY: Begging.


UNIDENTIFIED GIRL: I did it. I`m sorry, and I should be punished.

COSBY: We know it, we accept, and you will be.

UNIDENTIFIED BOY: So I got everything I need, plus $200 left for the

COSBY: You plan to have a girlfriend?



UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: Shut up! Don`t you dare open your mouth when I`m
asking you a question. Rudy, go to bed!

COSBY: And you`re going to do it because I said so. I am your father. I
brought you in this world, and I`ll take you out.


SHARPTON: The show also became legendary for Bill Cosby`s incredible
sweaters, and of course his unique brand of comedic genius.


COSBY: And now, it`s vibrating. I mean, this motor -- (sound effects)
now, I look in the rearview mirror, and whatever I`m going to run over,
there`s 12 of them.


Oh, look at Maria go.

Mr. Clyde says -- (SHOUTING INAUDIBLE)


SHARPTON: The Cosby shows also featured famous guest stars, like the time
the Huxtables got a lesson in sampling from Stevie Wonder.




UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Let`s have it. Go at it one time.


UNIDENTIFIED MAN: What would you say at a party?

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Jamming on the one.

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Jamming on the one. Jamming on the one.


SHARPTON: Everybody watched "The Cosby Show." It crossed cultural
boundaries, and 30 years later, the show still resonates.

Joining me now is Dr. Alvin Poussaint, Harvard Medical School professor,
author and consultant for "The Cosby Show." Thank you for being here
tonight, doctor.

Sharpton, Al.

SHARPTON: It`s been 30 years since it first aired. What kind of impact
has the show had?

POUSSAINT: Well, it`s had much more impact than anyone imagined.
Certainly we didn`t think it was going to have the impact it had when the
show started, but it was a great success, and it was different. It was one
of the first times they really portrayed a black family in a very positive
light, and without a bunch of stereotypes about black people. So it was
also very educational, and it was real in the sense that it had
believability, despite the fact that it was a sitcom. Bill didn`t want a
lot of one-liners in the show. He wanted a show where there was a plot,
even a sitcom that stemmed from the family situation, that he could make
funny, and then project it on the screen.


POUSSAINT: And that was very, very, very different. He told me, in fact,
when I consulted on the scripts, and you know, sometimes I hesitated
because I thought I was going to interfere with the humor in some of the
scripts and he caught it and called me up and said, listen, you just try to
give me the reality, the behavior, what seems real and believable. He
said, I make it funny. And that turned out to be true. Whatever I fed
back to them, and he felt should be changed, he still came up with a
humorous scene nonetheless. And that`s his talent and ability and genius,
if you want.

SHARPTON: Genius, clearly. And you consulted, you worked with him on
scripts and content and casting. And what was it that Dr. Cosby knew were
trying to communicate to America?

POUSSAINT: Well, we were trying to communicate that there was universal
things between families, that people had the same aspirations, the same
issues. This show was translated in over 22 countries, because other
countries could identify with what was happening in a family with children.
It`s kind of the basic unit, you know, in the world, for everyone. And I
think that we`re also trying to let them see that particularly black
Americans, there was a lot in common. We were struggling with the same
issues, and we weren`t a bunch of buffoons. That we were intelligent,
pleasant, and so on. I think that was the one of the main purposes.

The other one was directed in many ways at the black community, for
instance. Cosby was trying to project education throughout the eight
seasons. He was one of the few people on TV who began to talk about
historically black colleges and sometimes it was a bit funny because I
would vet the scripts sometimes and find the kids talking about Oberlin or
Harvard or Princeton, the other schools, and I would put in there, listen,
let`s put in some historically black colleges, so he put in Moore house and
Howard, and it showed what an effect that had. It seems something like
that`s very minor. I would go to work the next day, and people would come
and say, what`s this Moor House School that you mentioned on television.


POUSSAINT: So that it educated all of America about the black experience.

SHARPTON: And the relationship, I want to get this in. The relationship
between Dr. and Mrs. Huxtables was a critical part of the show`s success.
Let`s watch this clip.


COSBY: Let me say what I want to say.

UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: If I let you say it, you are going to say, let`s get
it on.

COSBY: I love you, very, very much. It`s a privilege to wake up in the
morning and see your face. You are my life and I mean that.

UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: Oh, Cliff, let`s get it on.


SHARPTON: How important was it to show a healthy, loving marriage in the
Huxtable household?

POUSSAINT: Well, that was key. He wanted to have very positive
relationships within the family and with his wife and she with him. And I
think Bill wanted to project too, that a two-parent household, a husband
and a wife, was very, very crucial and critical. I think he was trying to
model that for the rest of the nation and for the black community. That
this would be so rewarding and in fact, he talked about that when the show
first came on, the fact that we had a two-parent household, and he wasn`t
going to deal with all of the social issues that were plaguing the black
community at the time. He wanted them to serve as a model for the future,
for what the possibilities were.

SHARPTON: Well, Dr. Alvin Poussaint, who was a great part of this, thank
you for your time tonight. And this show really changed America and
changed people like me growing up watching it, and learning the impact of
it and trying to aspire to be like it. Have a great weekend Dr. Poussaint.

POUSSAINT: Thank you.

SHARPTON: We`ll be right back. Thank you.



PRES. BARACK OBAMA (D), UNITED STATES: As far as we`ve come, the fact is,
from sports leagues to pop culture, to politics, our society still does not
sufficiently value women. We still don`t condemn sexual assault as loudly
as we should. Women make up half this country, half its workforce, more
than half of our college students. They are not going to succeed that the
way they should, unless they are treated as true equals and are supported
and respected. Unless women are allowed to fulfill their full potential,
America will not reach its full potential. So we got to change.


SHARPTON: President Obama speaking today about violence against women, an
issue that`s become a national crisis. My thoughts on that, next.


SHARPTON: We have seen over the last several weeks, some ugly and
grotesque examples of violence against women whether it`s in an elevator in
Atlantic City, or a judge in a courthouse in Alabama in his private hotel
room that goes public. We have far too long ignored violence against women
and allowed our culture to act as though this is something we can deal with
later or in a hush hush way. We got to confront it, we should use this
opportunity to confront and change something that is too readily accepted
and excused.

Thanks for watching. I`m Al Sharpton, have a great weekend. "HARDBALL"
starts right now.


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