All In With Chris Hayes, Thursday, October 2nd, 2014

Date: October 2, 2014

Guest: Tom Skinner, Peter Hotez, Jelani Cobb, Raul Reyes, Jennifer
Cramblett, Lacey Schwartz


CHRIS HAYES, MSNBC HOST (voice-over): Tonight, on ALL IN:

America`s first Ebola patient is in trouble with his home country.
Liberia`s president personally blaming him for carrying the virus into the

PRES. ELLEN JOHNSON SIRLEAF, LIBERIA: The fact that he knew and he left
the country is unpardonable.

HAYES: Then, will the president make news on immigration tonight? He`s
set to deliver a high profile speech this hour to key Latino officials.
We`ll have live coverage.

Plus, new allegations against the scandal-stricken Secret Service. Find
out who was flirting with whom and what they revealed as a result.

And I`ll talk to the white mother of a biracial toddler who`s suing the
sperm bank for mistakenly giving them the sperm of a black donor.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m not going to let them get away with not being
held accountable.

HAYES: ALL IN starts right now.


HAYES: Good evening from New York. I`m Chris Hayes.

Tonight, health officials in the Dallas area are working to locate 80 to
100 people who may have come direct or secondary contact with the Ebola
patient Thomas E. Duncan, as President Obama called the Dallas mayor to
pledge full federal support to local containment efforts.

Meanwhile, four people Duncan was staying with in the Dallas area who were
with him at the time he became ill are now quarantined inside the
department they shared. The sheets, and dirty towels and clothes worn by
Duncan remain in the apartment with those four people who had close contact
with him. Officials are working to get the apartment cleaned.


JUDGE CLAY JENKINS, DALLAS COUNTY: We had some hedging issues that a that
we are addressing in that apartment. This is a fluid situation. We have a
contractor. There are protocols that have to be followed to clean and to
take care of the things that need to be taken care of in there.


HAYES: Texas health officials have placed the four residents under
quarantine after officials say they ignored requests yesterday not to leave
the apartment. According to the order, which is legally binding, they will
not be able to leave or have visitors in the apartment during their three-
week incubation period.

Police officers have been embedded at the complex to enforce the order.


JENKINS: Last night, we placed orders on the family. We did that after
balancing many things. We do not intend to have to do that again.


HAYES: Officials said today no one who had any contact with Duncan has
shown any symptoms, but precautionary measures are being taken.

Today, residents in the apartment complex were given fliers about Ebola.


KALILU KONNEH, APARTMENT RESIDETN: I`ve got to stay safe. I`ve got a lot
of people upstairs of myself and just watch -- be careful who I`m talking
to, whose hand I shake and just going up to my bed.


HAYES: All three students from a Texas elementary school pulled earlier
today from class after reportedly having contact with Duncan.

And United Airlines proactively reached out to all passengers that may have
been on the planes on which Mr. Duncan flew, even as the CDC says there is
zero risk to those passengers.

Right now, Duncan remains in isolation at the Texas Health Presbyterian

But that doesn`t stop Liberian officials from signaling they plan to
prosecute him for lying on airport health documents.


SIRLEAF: The fact that he knew and he left the country is unpardonable,
quite frankly. I just hope that nobody else gets affected. Fortunately,
he`s in the United States where medical care, you know, is very good.


HAYES: Officials say that Duncan, among other things, lied under oath on
an airport health questionnaire by answering no when he was asked on the
form if he had come into contact with a person infected with Ebola in the
previous 21 days.

Joining me now, NBC News correspondent Ron Mott, who`s in Dallas tonight.

Ron, what is the mood like in Dallas area? Obviously, there`s been a lot
of orders from officials, do not panic, it`s going to be OK. But, you
know, you`ve got kids who are now being monitored, you`ve got a circle of
80 to 100 people. You got fliers up in the apartment complex. What are
things like down there?

RON MOTT, NBC NEWS CORRESPONDENT: That apartment complex where Eric
Duncan, he goes by the name Eric, Thomas Eric Duncan known by Eric, where
he was staying, those folks are concerned and now, with news spreading from
Liberia that he perhaps lied on that form, saying that he had no contact
with anyone who was infected with Ebola, that`s contradictory to the
neighbors who said he helped that pregnant woman who later died and he knew
or should have known that she was sickened with the Ebola virus.

So, that frustration, that sadness may turn into frustration or perhaps
even anger. One of the neighbors over there today is very, very concerned
about her health. She says now, she`s very careful about shaking hands
with people. She`s going to try not to do that over the next couple of
three weeks.

She had sort of limited contact with him. They live close by. So, she`s
going to be checked. I don`t know where she officially is classified.
They have three classifications, high risk, low risk and no risk and that
group of 80 to 100 people are going to be sorted out.

Those deemed high risks, Chris, are the ones who are going to get that
daily phone call and visit from the CDC and the local health officials,
checking their temperatures, making sure that any signs of their body
temperature increasing, they`ll be rushed into a hospital setting where
they can be further evaluated.

But I would say tonight that there is general concern in that particular
neighborhood. And that as we mentioned, with this news coming out of
Liberia that he may have lied only that form to get on that airplane to
make his way here to Dallas, that concern may wave over into anger --

HAYES: We`re going to talk about that in a bit.

You spoke, if I`m not mistaken, I believe you spoke to someone who was
under quarantine today. Let me play this clip.


MOTT: NBC News spoke with one of those confined. A man named Oliver.

OLIVER: We sort of signed a paper that`s saying we can`t leave our

MOTT: And for how long?



HAYES: So there are four folks. You talked to one of them. Who told him
under legal authority and how is he taking the news that he is now in an
apartment for 21 days.

MOTT: Right. He`s very, very upset.

In fact, so, last night, the sheriff`s department, because they had to
deliver this order, this is a court order that they were forced to sign
that is legally binding. As you mentioned, keeping them in that apartment
until October 18th. That would be the 21-day mark since they believed Mr.
Duncan was exhibiting those symptoms and he was very contagious at that

So, they`ve got another 16 days to stay in this apartment. I asked him
about his job. He can`t go to his job.

Last night, they said they were running out of food in the apartment. And
no one had thought to feed this family. So, apparently, the sheriff`s
office had some leftover food from a sting operation that they were
conducting and so they brought those sandwiches over.

And the word got to some Red Cross folks here in town. So, they delivered
some food along with a local food bank to the apartment today. I assume
this is going to happen today to make sure that they stay fit there.

Of course, the question is: what do they do with all the stuff in the
apartment? They were told to bleach some of the bedding and that the
bedding has been taken off the beds. They were told to bleach some of the
mattress. But they`ve got clothes of his. They don`t know what to do with
that stuff. They`ve put them in bags.

And Oliver says his frustration is they`re being told to stay in a place
that they believe is clearly contaminated with Ebola. And he said to me,
what sense does that make? Why are they keeping us here?

HAYES: Ron Mott, thank you very much.

Joining me now on the phone is Tom Skinner, spokesman for the Centers for
Disease Control and Prevention, CDC.

Tom, first let me ask this question about the sheets and the towels of Mr.
Duncan that are in that apartment. It seems crazy to me that no one can
get someone over there in the proper gear to get rid of that stuff? If
you`re going to quarantine four people in that apartment? Am I wrong to be
surprised by that?

TOM SKINNER, CDC SPOKESMAN: My understanding from the local officials
there is that a plan is being implemented for a medical waste management
company to come and pick those items up. I don`t know if that`s happened.
I don`t believe it has, based on what you all are saying. But that is in
the works and will be happening very soon.

I think it`s important to not that if these linens are soiled and if the
mattresses are soiled and that sort of thing and there has been efforts to
put bleach on those -- this is a very, very weak and feeble virus. So, it
can be deactivated very easily and very quickly.

And if these individuals -- they`re in a terrible situation right now. If
they`re not in direct contact and the items have been bleached in anyway,
the virus is dead.

So, there is a plan underway to take care of these individuals. They`re
being taken care of. It`s very frustrating to them. And I really do
sympathize with them.

HAYES: So, walk me through the process here. Yesterday, we were hearing
12 to 18 people that was direct contact. Today, we`re hearing 80 to 100.

Tell me what those different tiers are and what does monitoring mean? What
does the actual process here?

SKINNER: That`s a very good question and important to understand. The
hundred number that you keep hearing is the number of people that we
believe need to be reached out to, to determine if they`re in contact. Let
me give you a for example. Let`s say when a gentleman was being wheeled
into the hospital on the gurney, someone was there in the waiting room and
that gurney just happened to by the person.

You know, that person may be reached out to say, hey, did you touch the
gurney or something? And if you didn`t touch the gurney, you`re not a
contact. But that person may be included in the hundred. So, the hundred
refers to those people that are being reached out to, to determine if
they`re contacts.

So that`s what we`re doing. We have reached out to most if not all of
them, about 70 or so of them. We have determined that a handful of
individuals in the hospital, as well in the apartments complexes are
contacts and these individuals will be monitored, as your correspondent on
site just alluded to. Every day, they`ll be having their temperatures
taken. They`ll be asked about their health, how they`re feeling and
monitored very closely.

HAYES: So, we`ve got this small core group, that they`re some sort of
definite contact. We`ve got the four people who are quarantined in this
larger group, which is kind of like, you know, friends of friends on
Facebook that can see you photos, right, that are sort of concentric circle
outside. They`re being monitored, checked in with, reliably.

And you`re confident that things are going to be maintained. There`s sort
of a wall being built around this at the time.

Tom Skinner from CDC, thank you very much.

SKINNER: Thank you.

HAYES: All right. Earlier, I mentioned that as Liberian Ebola patient
Thomas E. Duncan is isolated in a Dallas hospital, he is being threatened
with prosecution by his home country of Liberia. "A.P." reports a Liberian
airport official said Duncan will be prosecuted when he returns to Liberia
for lying on a health questionnaire.


SIRLEAF: We have some very stringent precautionary measures at the airport
and I`m told he went through those. We even have a doctor`s station. We
have temperature taken, devices at the airport and hand washing and


HAYES: Liberian officials say he could also be charged with violating
Liberia`s public health laws for putting others in danger, when you`re
aware of the health risk. Duncan is believed to have contracted the
disease while helping a pregnant neighbor who later died from Ebola several
weeks ago.

Joining me now, Dr. Peter Hotez. He`s founding dean of the National School
of Tropical Medicine at Baylor College of Medicine.


HAYES: Doctor, good to see you again.

You`ve been a real -- a voice of clarity and calm and reason on all this.
I want to talk about the possibility, I think from inside, people are
looking at this and saying, the guy had to know he was dealing with Ebola.
The cab driver of the cab that took this woman to the hospital, several
hospitals from which he was turned away in Monrovia, before she died, said
they thought -- she was seven months pregnant -- she was having a
miscarriage. That there was something (INAUDIBLE).

I guess the question is how plausible is it as a general matter that
someone could just have this experience and walk away not realizing the
disease of the person that he was so intimately close to?

HOTEZ: Well, I think we`re not going to be able to sort this out until we
have -- assuming he survives from his Ebola infection, which I`m hopeful he
will, we`re not going to be able to know that until we take the time to
interview him under the proper circumstances.

I think that`s not where we should go at this point. I think the emphasis
right now needs to be on getting this individual treated, his contacts
quarantined and, really, to thank our lucky stars that we have the premier
health agency in the world, the Centers for Disease Control, they`re the
pioneers, remember, of the epidemic intelligence service. This is their
bread and butter. This is their sweet spot. This is what CDC really does
well, is knowing the natural history of the infection, knowing about the
organism and then taking scientific measures to contain the epidemic.

And I think the CDC is on this. And Tom Frieden when -- there`s this news
conference, talked about we will get this under control -- I absolutely
think that`s right. I think that`s where the emphasis should be, is
letting the public health officials, both the federal agency and CDC and
the state do their work.

HAYES: So, I`m struck by the level -- to me, this has been an
illustration. For those of us here in the U.S. have been reading about
Ebola, we`ve been following the coverage out of Sierra Leone and Guinea and
Liberia, and it just seems awful and it wrenches your heart and it seems
disastrous. And you hear these headlines like Liberia poised in the abyss.

Watching this happen here illustrates how resource intensive proper
containment is. I mean, I`ve got to imagine literally millions of dollars
are going to be spent on this one case of Ebola. Do you think that`s a
fair estimate?

HOTEZ: I think that is a fair estimate. I think you hit it perfectly,
that containing epidemics is hard work.

We saw this when we were successful in eradicating smallpox. It took a
huge, global effort.

Just look at the chaos this one individual has been able to create and the
hundreds of people that are involved in quarantine. Now, multiply that
times 6,000, 7,000, which is the numbers we`re looking at currently in the
three affected countries of Liberia, Guinea, and Sierra Leone. Look at
what you`re dealing with. You`re dealing with three countries that have
only recently emerged out of horrific conflict and post-conflict.

And this is why it was necessary for President Obama to take the important
measure of sending in 3,000 U.S. troops that can help contain it.

HAYES: I also had the thought today. There`s press conference in which
they talked about, they were having some issues finding folks that would to
go in and take these soiled sheets. I have this thought about how r
remarkably courageous all these people, unsung in Sierra Leone, in Guinea
and Liberia who are administering medical care, day in, day out exposing
themselves to tremendous personal risk to try to contain this thing without
necessarily even the proper equipment to do so. It`s pretty inspiring.

HOTEZ: They are heroes. The doctors and nurses and other health care
workers fighting this epidemic are really -- truly are heroes.

HAYES: Dr. Peter Hotez, thank you very much.

All right. Much more to come including yet another Secret Service screw up
to tell you about. And we`ll talk about the troubling gap between how the
Secret Service seems to be perceiving these mistakes and how everyone else
is perceiving them. That`s ahead.


HAYES: President Obama has just delivered a highly anticipated speech
tonight in front of a high stakes audience, the Congressional Hispanic
Caucus Institute. Full analysis of that speech, ahead.


HAYES: Yet, another revelation of alleged misconduct by the Secret
Service. This one from before the tenure of Julia Pierson, the first
female director of the agency charged with protecting the president who
resigned yesterday after 18 months on the job. The senior administration
official told NBC News that Pierson`s interim replacement, Joseph Clancy,
previously led the presidential service`s provision, will start work on

The Web site "Inside Sources" published by a former staffer for the Mitt
Romney campaign, reported that during the 2012 campaign, a Secret Service
agent provided details of President Obama`s schedule to the Romney campaign
several days prior to the president`s campaign stops becoming public.

Two sources told the Web site they witnessed a married Secret Service agent
make advances towards a Romney staffer, and after a number of drinks, the
agent unprompted in an apparent attempt to impress the staffer, provided
details of the president`s schedule, including times and locations of his
events in the final days before the election. On a separate occasion, the
agent reportedly provided joyrides in a Secret Service vehicle with the
lights flashing.

This is just the latest in what appears to be a string of frightening
lapses by the agency. On September 19, of course, a knife-wielding man
jumped the fence and made it far into the White House. Just three days
earlier, an armed ex-con was allowed to share an elevator with the
president in Atlanta.

In 2011, the Secret Service mistook shots fired at the White House for a
vehicle backfire or construction backfire and failed to notice the shots
hit the White House until a housekeeper noticed broken glass and cement on
the floor four days later.

The following year, eight agents lost their jobs amid revelations they have
cavorted with prostitutes from a Colombian strip club in their hotel rooms.
That scandal came not long before Pierson took over the agency.

Asked about her resignation, Pierson suggested to Bloomberg News she has
been caught up in a media feeding frenzy, saying, quote, "The media has
made it clear that this is what they expected."

And it`s not just Pierson who appears to feel that way. When I talk to
people connected to Secret Service live on the show, they`ve consistently
suggested that the scandals have been blown way out of proportion. The
gulf in perception between people connected to the Secret Service and those
of us on the outside, including members of Congress seems to me, incredibly
large, and part of that I think has to do with the fact that the threat of
assassination has loomed particularly large over the first black president.

Michelle Obama was asked about it way back in 2007.


MICHELLE OBAMA, U.S. FIRST LADY: I don`t lose sleep over it because the
realities are that, you know, as a black man, you know, Barack can get shot
going to the gas station. You know, you can`t -- you can`t make decisions
based on fear and the possibility of what might happen.


HAYES: Incredible moment there.

Joining me now, Jelani Cobb contributor to "The New Yorker", where he`s
just written a piece about President Obama`s safety. He`s also associate
professor of history, director of the African Studies Institute at the
University of Connecticut.

Jelani, it`s a great piece of "The New Yorker". Tell me what the basic
thrust of it, because I`ve been seeing in social media, there`s this
feeling that there`s something wrong here. There`s some folks who think
that maybe the Secret Service was doing this on purpose. And you sort of
take a look at where that impulse is coming from.

JELANI COBB, THE NEW YORKER: Right. Well, Chris, thank you for having me.

And I think that the first thing is easier in some way to think that this
is, you know, the result is some sort of conspiratorial cabal to think that
there`s an ineptitude of the scale or negligence of the scale, because
that`s certainly more frightening. You know, conspiracy is, by definition,
confined to a small number of people. Ineptitude can be kind of endless.


COBB: So, it also -- it`s very difficult, actually, to believe that
someone can, you know, just jump over the fence and run into the White
House in a way that they couldn`t, you know. And very many of our own
personal homes, you know, being more difficult to access our homes in that

So, you know, for all that we`ve seen in the last series of revelations, it
doesn`t square with the reputation of the organization prior to this.

HAYES: And there`s this -- and this is being perceived, I think, in folks
that I`ve been interacting with on Twitter among certain African-Americans,
I think, is there`s something amiss here and it relates to the fear that is
always kind of hung over Barack Obama, the figure of him, going way back to
announce his fear of presidential -- I remember talking to black voters in
the primary who would just say, there`s no way that this dude is not going
to get shot. There`s no way that this can happen. That he can
successfully cross this gauntlet in this country.

COBB: Right. It`s such a horrible thing to speak the possibility of it
aloud. One of the obstacles I`ve had in even writing that piece was to
think about it consistently enough to put thoughts down on paper.

But there were many African-Americans. You talk to them. I talk to them.
When I was in South Carolina ahead of that primary, there were people who
told me that they would not vote for him because they, quote, "wanted him
to be around for his daughters." And they were not talking about, you
know, the conflict in, you know, lack of quality time that he`s had with
his children if he was elected president. They were talking about
preserving his life.

And, you know, in very many ways, the specter of Martin Luther King`s death
still hangs over this country and specifically hangs over black America in
some particular ways. And it`s horrible that we`re having this
conversation or it`s necessary to have this conversation because the lapses
with the Secret Service have -- kind of caused those fears to reemerge.

HAYES: And it`s also the case that even independent of the president`s
race and the sort of historical nature of him being the first black
president, this is a country that has seen a lot of assassination attempts
on its leader, it`s sort of stunning when you just sit and go through all
of the actual assassinations and then the near-misses. I mean, you know,
Reagan, there was two on four. There were plots that were interrupted on

I mean, this is something woven into American history.

COBB: Right. And, you know, the other thing about this is, that, you
know, we`ve talked a great deal about this being important because of the
president`s race, because, also, the issue of, you know, this being a
country that has been at war for 13 years now. And there are lots of
enemies abroad. And one of the best things that you have in terms of
security is the appearance of competence.

So, if there`s an organization that says getting to the president would be
too difficult, then, now, looking at them and saying -- well, maybe not.
So, that in and of itself general rates more threats or possible threats.

HAYES: It`s very hard to watch all of this unfold and not think about
succession of other institutions only to be revealed as completely

Jelani Cobb, always a pleasure, thank you, sir.

COBB: Thank you.

HAYES: We`re premiering a new feature here on the show tonight. I`m very
excited about it. It`s called "This day in Obamacare hysteria history."
It`s going to be great. Stay tuned for that, next.



gets your health care through your employer, premiums are rising at a rate
tied for the lowest on record. In just the last year, we reduced the share
of uninsured Americans by 26 percent. That means one in four uninsured
Americans, about 10 million people, have gained the financial security of
health insurance in less than one year.


HAYES: On the one-year anniversary of the launch of the health care
exchanges, the president rightfully took a little victory lap today as he
noted the uninsured rate is down 26 percent. More than 10 million people
didn`t have insurance before now do, thanks to Obamacare.

Insurance premiums are now projected to decrease in 2015 according to the
Kaizer Family Foundation and for the fourth year in a row, spending on
health care grew up one of the slowest rates ever recorded.

And at least 77 additional insurers will be joining the exchanges when the
second round of open enrollment begins on November 15th. So today, we want
to introduce a new feature on the show called "This Date in Obamacare

In which we go back to the archives and find the best, most epic Obamacare
scare mongering we have to offer from a year ago on this date. Here`s what
we found today.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: First day of Obamacare plagued by computer glitches.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Error messages, web site crashes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Tea Party couldn`t stop Obamacare, but, apparently,
the web servers could.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nobody know what is the blank is going on here. It`s
so complicated, so convoluted and so screwed up.

TED CRUZ (R), TEXAS SENATOR: Harry Reid wants to hold veterans hostage in
order to force Obamacare on everyone.

GOVERNOR RICK PERRY: It is going to be an absolute economic disaster.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Obamacare continues to destroy the health care system.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is absolutely unreasonable to have the government
run your health care. Forget all the secret testing that`s been done
against the population.


HAYES: Now, most of those 10 million people who recently became insured
did so through Medicaid. But 23 states still refuse to accept the Medicaid
expansion choosing to deny health insurance to 5 million. And the evidence
we`re getting now is making it harder and harder to do just that.

All right, I just got some breaking news that I want to share with you. We
have just learned that an NBC News freelancer in Africa has been diagnosed
with Ebola. This is an American cameraman who`s been there for three years
doing news coverage, working of covering the story and has been covering
the outbreak with the NBC News team with Dr. Nancy Snyderman and others.

We have learned this in a letter from the NBC News chief writing to members
of the NBC News community that we are doing everything we can to get him
the best care possible. He will be flown back to the U.S. for treatment at
a medical center that is equip to handle Ebola patients.

We are also taking all possible measures to protect our employees and the
general public. Again, Dr. Nancy Snyderman of NBC News is in Liberia
covering the Ebola outbreak.

We have just learned that an NBC News freelance who has been covering the
outbreak, an American cameraman has been diagnosed with Ebola. I have just
been told that Rachel Maddow will have that from Dr. Nancy Snyderman on her
show. We`ll be right back.


HAYES: All right. We are following a breaking news story. An NBC
freelance cameraman who has been working in Liberia for the last three
years and has been there with Nancy Snyderman, chief medical editor of NBC
covering the Ebola epidemic has tested positive for Ebola.

He is going to be flown back to the U.S. to a facility that is equipped to
treat him. Dr. Nancy Snyderman will be quarantined for 21 days, the
gestation period for Ebola. Other members of the crew are going to be

Again, we`re just learning this. That an NBC News freelance cameraman, an
American who has been working in Liberia for three years. He has been
covering the most recent Ebola outbreak. He has tested positive for Ebola.
That news coming from chief of NBC News.

We will continue to follow this story. It appears that Rachel is going to
have Dr. Nancy Snyderman on her program in just a bit. So do not go

Another breaking news, just moments ago, President Obama concluded remarks
before the annual gala of the Congressional Hispanic Caucus Institute. And
given recent events, the president`s appearance was dramatic and the
setting was, well, tense.

It was just this summer the president said he would wait no longer for
immigration reform. And that if the House refuses to take action as the
Senate when it passed a bipartisan comprehensive bill a year prior and he
would act through executive action.


PRESIDENT OBAMA: If Congress will not do their job, at least we can do
ours. I expect the recommendations before the end of the summer. And I
intend to adopt those recommendations without further delay.


HAYES: Then, the president decided to, well, delay action until after the
midterm elections, indicating this decision was made almost purely
political grounds. Democrats were concerned about Senate candidates in
certain contestant races.

Now today "The Washington Post" are reporting that activists in key states
say it is increasingly difficult to register would-be Latino voters, who
would vote for Democrats because of unhappiness over that very decision.

So that`s the context for tonight when President Obama faced some of the
very people including Congressman Luis Gutierrez, who has been a guest on
this program frequently who were most disappointed in his decision to delay
to make his case.


PRESIDENT OBAMA: I`ve taken, so far, actions -- I`m about to get to that.
About to get to it. So this is not a question of if but when. Because the
moment I act, and it will be taking place between the November elections
and the end of the year. Opponents of reform will roll out the same old
scare tactics. They`ll use whatever excuse they had to try to block any
attempt at immigration reform at all.


HAYES: The president getting heckled by some activists. Joining me now
Raul Reyes, attorney and contributor at So this was, you know,
this was a hard -- the president is in a difficult spot, right? He made
this promise.

He was talked out of it by a variety from the reporting a variety of
candidates themselves. Senate candidates said you`re going -- yes. And I
don`t necessarily think bracketing the moral case, the subsequent policy
case, I don`t think they have the wrong political call.

I think it`s a pretty persuasive case that would have been a political
problem. So he`s got to now go before the Congressional Hispanic Caucus
Institute and say it`s not a question of when but if. How do you think he

RAUL REYES, ATTORNEY: Well, I have to say, even coming into it, it would
be almost impossible for him to really satisfy this audience. This is an
audience that`s demanded and has demanded for quite some time, action.
Everything he said tonight have heard before.

And then the timing, also, unfortunately, plays into it. Monday happened
to be end of summer, which was his own stated deadline for taking some sort
of executive action.

On Wednesday, the Department of Homeland Security released their
deportation figures for last year, for 2013, another record 435,000, which
puts him well over the 2 million mark. Now ordinarily --

HAYES: That`s for 2013. We should say in this year, deportations as of
now in 2014 are down --

REYES: Right. But he still over the 2 million mark. You know, there was
some confusion about that with several thousand -- few thousand to go in
this next period. But the thing is, ordinarily when he goes to
Congressional Hispanic Caucus, this is friendly territory.

He`s been there as a candidate several times. He didn`t go last year
because of the government shutdown. He typically gets a warm response
especially because Latinos have been a very loyal constituency.

Even in the dark days of Obamacare and the web site malfunctions, Latinos
still support his agenda. They still support Obamacare. But, right now,
it`s a very different mood.

HAYES: Do you think the politics of this decision, this delay, which
again, I think there`s a pretty good political case for. Do you think that
is affecting his perception among Latino voters?

REYES: Absolutely. If you look no further than outside this gala, there
were protesters by several -- there`s an inadvertent consequence going on
here. He has cause by this delay in the executive action a schism in the
immigration reform movement.

When it first announced, there was so much anger and frustration. People
were actually saying, let`s not vote. Let`s not have the election. And
one advocacy group said OK, we`re going to regroup, mobilize and make sure
that the Senate Democrats hang on.

But the younger groups, the immigrant youth groups, the dreamers, many of
the real foot soldiers, they`re angry. They are even denouncing the
Congressional Hispanic Caucus for hosting him. So there`s like some
disunity in the movement, which is of his own making unfortunately.

HAYES: The question is going to be how all of this is remembered, if he
does something as big of a scale of what`s been hinted out and we`ll see.
Raul Reyes, thank you very much.

REYES: My pleasure.

HAYES: A woman is suing a sperm bank for giving her the wrong kind of
sperm. She will join me with her attorney ahead.


HAYES: Recapping our breaking news at this moment, an NBC News freelance
cameraman who has been living in Liberia for three years and who has
recently been covering the Ebola epidemic that has ravaged that country.

He`s been working with our medical editor, Dr. Nancy Snyderman, that
cameraman whose name we are not releasing has been diagnosed with Ebola.
He tested positive. He is going to be flown back to the U.S. to a medical
facility that is equipped to treat him for the disease.

We`re also being told that Dr. Nancy Snyderman who is the chief medical
editor for NBC News and who is also in Liberia covering the outbreak, will
be quarantined for 21 days. The other members of the crew, some of whom
are going to be monitored, as well.

We are being assured they will all be getting adequate medical care. But,
again, a freelance cameraman, someone who is just reporting what is
happening in that part of the world, which has been terrible and awful to

But whose images have been compelling and gripping and transmitted to us
through this person`s labor. That person has tested positive for Ebola.
We will continue to update you as we learn more.



JENNIFER CRAMBLETT, SUING SPERM BANK: You can`t just do that and say well,
you`ve got a baby. You got a baby, so you should be happy. Lesbian couple
can`t get a baby anyways. You should be happy you have a healthy child.

I am happy that I have a healthy child. We love her more to this day.
She`s made us the people who we are. Never trade her for the world. But
I`m not going to let them get away with not being held accountable.


HAYES: Jennifer Cramblett, a white mother in Ohio is suing a sperm bank
because the people there accidentally sent her sperm from an African-
American donor, which led to her having a bi-racial baby.

Cramblett said she discovered the mix up when she was well into her
pregnancy when she called to order more sperm so the couple could have
another child with sperm from the same donor.

She asked for eight more viles of donor number 380 to which the clinic
responded essentially giving in 330, right? It turns out according to the
suit when Midwest Sperm Bank took her original phone order for viles 380,
someone misread the handwritten number as 330 and sent that sperm to the
fertility clinic, instead.

Cramblett said she and her partner who is also white requested in her
words, a blond haired, blue eyed donor resembling her partner. The lawsuit
says that Jennifer lives each day with fears, anxieties and uncertainty
about her future and her daughter`s future.

She tries to raise her in an all-white community. She wants to move to a
diverse community, but can`t afford it. As example of the difficulties,
she and her daughter face the lawsuit alleges, quote, "Getting a young
daughter`s haircut is not particularly stressful for most mothers.

But to Jennifer it is not a routine matter because Peyton has hair typical
of an African-American girl. To get a decent cut, Jennifer must travel to
a black neighborhood, far from where she lives where she`s obviously
different in appearance and not overly welcomed.

Joining me now is Jennifer Cramblett along with her attorney, Tim Mizney.
Jennifer, so this seems like a colossal screw up, if the facts alleged in
the lawsuit will right. I`ve got to say, watching this, I am thinking a
lot -- why are you doing this to your kid? Why are you doing this lawsuit
if you love this daughter why are you doing this?

CRAMBLETT: You know, the fact of the matter -- that`s been brought up
plenty of times. We were going to have this conversation with her anyways.
No matter what, we were going to have this conversation if we had the
lawsuit or if we didn`t.

So we`re going to let her know that she`s loved. She`s going to feel that
every day in her life. And, no matter what, she`s going to know that what
we`re doing right now, standing up for what shouldn`t have happened. I
don`t care if 330 was a white donor. We`d still be here.

What they did, I feel, was negligent and very careless. We want policies
changed in how they do things at that sperm bank.

HAYES: But you recognize that people think that this is about race.

CRAMBLETT: Absolutely.

HAYES: When you say in the complaint that you have to drive to a black
neighborhood to get her hair done, which I guess seems like a pain, but
parenting is one pain after another, right. You do a lot of stuff for the
kid you love. It does look to people that this is someone saying, you gave
me a black kid.

CRAMBLETT: Yes, as far as the haircut goes, that`s not anything that I
said personally as far as I have to drive to a black neighborhood. Those
are just issues that we had been talking about in saying these are things
that are going to come up. That I have to do something different.

HAYES: Is there some part of you that says this is actually amazing? We
weren`t going into this, we wanted a kid that looked biologically linked to
us. Is there some part of you that feels grateful for that?

CRAMBLETT: Absolutely. I grew up as a minority myself being an openly gay
woman. And I cherish any experience to open my eyes up to newer
experience. I`m very passionate. I love all cultures. I am the underdog
champion of the world. I want everybody to love each other and be happy.
I couldn`t even imagine my life without Peyton now and couldn`t imagine --
she`s beautiful, she`s wonderful.

HAYES: She`s a cute kid. I don`t know. I hope justice is done in some
ways. Jennifer Cramblett, Tim Nezi, thank you both.

CRAMBLETT: Thank you.

HAYES: All right. What happens when someone grows up with one identity
and finds out they have another identity that`s been kept secret from them.
Stick around. You do not want to miss this.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The pictures coming back from Jamaica? It`s so dark.
But how absurd it read to me, you know, even as 16 years old or something
like that, your family, your cousins and stuff and everyone was -- even the

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They heard the story.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: White people will think anything. I`ve known white
people for a long time.


HAYES: All right. That is Lacy Schwartz`s incredible documentary. It`s a
remarkable story about growing up believing one thing before learning to
accept the hidden truth of something else entirely.

And joining me now is Lacy Schwartz. It`s great to see you, Lacy. The
movie is your own life. You grew up a white, Jewish girl in Woodstock, New
York. And then something happened when you were 18, you were admitted to
Georgetown and what happened then?

town believing very much I was who my parents were, which is white Jewish.
But still knowing that there is something different about me fundamentally.
When I applied to college, I didn`t check a box.

HAYES: About your race?

SCHWARTZ: No, not about my race. And I was admitted to the university as
a black student just based off of a photograph.

HAYES: This part is crazy. So you`re a white Jewish girl in Woodstock,
but there`s moments of fissure, people will say something or you say
something is not quite right. And then you get accepted to Georgetown and
you go and what?

SCHWARTZ: And, at that point, I was really questioning where I came from.
The answers that had been given to me which have been detailed in the film
weren`t really adding up anymore. I really think this film is
fundamentally a coming of age story.

It`s about the fact that you grow up an extension of who your parents are.
You`re really figuring out who you are. When I went away to school, that
was my opportunity to start asking questions because things weren`t adding

HAYES: And you would later learn that your biological father was a black
man. You are his daughter, biologically. You`ve lived as a white person
and you`ve lived as a black person.

SCHWARTZ: That`s true. I wasn`t consciously trying to pass.

HAYES: You weren`t hiding anything from anyone, you were who you were.

SCHWARTZ: Right, exactly. And I think it`s about the fact that society is
very segregated. I grew up in a bubble where people didn`t talk about it.
People ignored race and didn`t deal with it. I think it`s about families
and how much pressure there is to conform.

HAYES: I saw film. It was really fantastic. I thought of you when I read
this story. It`s a different situation for you. But it is a situation,
your mom is white, and your dad -- the dad who raised you is white. What`s
your reaction to that?

SCHWARTZ: For me, the question is what is the solution? What is the
problem and what is the solution. The problem is that we live in a very,
very segregated society. I think the reality is that we need to be able to
have open and honest conversations about race and society within families.

HAYES: And we`re actually going to enter an era where there will be more
families like this. Lacey Schwartz, the film is exceptional. It`s great.
Go check it out. All right.

Quickly, recapping the breaking news we have at this moment, an NBC News
freelance cameraman has been diagnosed with Ebola. He will be transferred
to the U.S. for treatment. Dr. Nancy Snyderman has been quarantined. She
is our medical editor. They were both covering the Ebola crisis in
Liberia. Much more on that ahead.

That is ALL IN for this evening. "THE RACHEL MADDOW" show starts right
now. Good evening, Rachel.


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