IE 11 is not supported. For an optimal experience visit our site on another browser.

'Up with Steve Kornacki' for Saturday, October 4th, 2014

Read the transcript to the Saturday show

Date: October 4, 2014

Guest: Hisham Melhem, Corey Hebert, Josh Barro, Jessica Taylor, Lizz
Winstead, Stephen Lynch, Joe Manchin, Lawrence Wilkerson, Hisham Melhem,
Michael Kay, Josh Barro, Jessica Taylor, Lizz Winstead



Good morning and thanks for getting UP with us on a morning with there`s
some very disturbing news breaking around the world right now. There has
been another beheading by ISIS, this time the execution of a British aid
worker, Allen Henning was his name. The terror group is now threatening to
make another American its next victim. British Prime Minister David
Cameron has just comment and we`ll bring you what he said in just a minute.

The fallout this morning is also continuing and the questions are mounting
in Dallas from the Liberia man who was diagnosed with Ebola this week, the
first person to be diagnosed with Ebola in America. The man, Thomas Duncan
was first misdiagnosed by the hospital that he went to. And now Obama
administration officials are trying hard to reassure Americans that
everything is under control. Now also, we are now as of this morning one
month out to the day from the 2014 midterm elections.

We`re going to get to all of that but we do want to begin this morning with
the death of Allen Henning. The new video released by ISIS that seems to
depict his brutal beheading. A taxi driver back in Britain, Henning was
driving an ambulance in Syria last Christmas when he was taken hostage. He
had been the lone non-Muslim in what was supposed to be a humanitarian
relief convoy. Just moments ago where his country`s state, UK Prime
Minister David Cameron offered this statement.


DAVID CAMERON, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: We will use all the assets we have
as we have been up to now, to try to find these hostages, to try to help
these hostages, to help their families and do everything we can to defeat
this organization which is utterly ruthless, senseless and barbaric in the
way it treats people. And this will be the work that we continue.


KORNACKI: And in the same video with Henning`s execution ISIS militants
say they`re going to take the life of Peter Kassig next. He`s a former
from Indiana who founded a Syrian aid group after he was deployed to Iraq.
According to his family he changed his name from Peter to Abdul-Rahman
after converting to Islam while he was in captivity. U.S. also suffered
the first apparent death in the air campaign against ISIS on Thursday with
the disappearance of Corporal Jordan Spears, a marine crewman who was
ejected from an aircraft over the Persian Gulf after it briefly lost power.
He is presumed lost at sea.

NBC News chief foreign correspondent Richard Engel joins us from Istanbul,
Turkey this morning. So, Richard, what is the latest that you know about
this latest ISIS beheading with Allen Henning?

it is very similar to the other that we have seen. We have seen four now
almost identical videos with the same killer, a man with a heavy British
accent holding a knife in his left-hand, the hostages in a fairly
nondescript desert environment. They are handcuffed behind them. They are
forced to read a statement explaining why they are about to be killed and
then the beheading itself. They usually end or they`ve all ended with a
threat to carry out the execution of another hostage and this one ended
with the threat to carry out beheading of an American, the former soldier
you mentioned who left the military and decided to change his life for
setting up shop in Beirut trying to help Syrian refugees and then founding
an aid organization himself going into Syria and ultimately being held

It is a propaganda move, it is a move by ISIS to instill fear. But I think
it is also an attempt by ISIS to try and draw the world in. ISIS knows
these are provocative actions. It knows that beheading an American on
camera and that taunting the American people, taunting the U.S. president
is the kind of thing that could provoke action and in fact it did. It was
these beheading videos that compelled the U.S. to launch its military
campaign against ISIS. Now it seems that ISIS wants to draw the U.S. even
further into this conflict because ISIS thinks the more deeply the U.S.
gets involved especially if there are going to be a ground component, the
bigger the quagmire the U.S. will finds itself in.

KORNACKI: It looks like for ISIS, in doing this for the attention they
want and the reaction they`re trying to get from the United States. So,
they have named now their next potential victim, an American. As you said,
we have seen this move before. This particular man, Allen Henning who was
just killed as we said, this was an aid worker, this was a cab driver who
was taken up a collection to have an ambulance to do relief work. I mean,
this was not somebody in anyway associated with the military, associated
with British, anything like that and yet they killed him even apparently
with objections from al Qaeda. Given that background, given that we`ve
seen this before, and given that there are other Americans, other
westerners who are being held captive right now, is there any realistic
prospect for getting and hid them out?

ENGEL: There was a rescue attempt that happened around the 4th of July
weekend. The U.S. is now conducting military bombing missions in Syria, in
Iraq. There is a lot of reconnaissance aircraft in the sky. So, if
anything the possibility of getting better intelligence, real time
intelligence in Iraq and Syria is better now than it was in July. I
wouldn`t want to put a percentage on the chances of a rescue but I would
say the chances of a rescue are probably higher than the chances of the
hostages being released.

KORNACKI: All right. A little bit of encouraging news to end it on. NBC
News chief correspondent Richard Engel, thanks for joining us this morning.
Really appreciate that.

We`re going to turn now to Hisham Melhem, he`s the Washington bureau chief
for Al-Arabiya. So we are just digesting this news as I imagine you are
from yesterday. I guess, I just start, what is your reaction? You say,
this is something we have seen before. There is sort of an established
pattern here. Richard just talked about the prospects of maybe getting
better intelligence to get some of these hostages out in the future. How
do you feel about those prospects?

that ISIS through these ugly ritualistic killings and that`s really the
essence of terror is trying not only to recruit people and to challenge the
west and its local allies but also to expose what they believe as the
impotence of the west in general. This is the fourth victim. And they
believe that they can get away with this because maybe in the recess of
their minds the United States and its allies are not going to create an
effective ground component that will go along with the air campaign. If we
continue to rely on the air campaign ISIS can continue its expansion. And
in fact, six weeks after the air campaign began in Iraq and two weeks after
their campaign began in Syria, we see that ISIS is still in the outskirts
of Baghdad.

Yes, they may have been blunted around the Mosul Dam, but they are on the
move in both Syria and Iraq on multiple fronts including besieging the
mostly Kurdish City of Kobani next to the Turkish border and also running
the risk of provoking Turkey into the fight. That it gives you an idea
about their arrogance but also given what happened on the ground in the
last six, seven weeks one can see why this arrogance is based on some, you
know, pretty rational calculus. Where are the ground components who are
going to take on ISIS? And today, we heard General Allen, the envoy of the
President of the United States to the allies essentially saying that for
Iraq to retake Mosul this will take more than a year. That gives you an
idea about not only the audacity of ISIS but also the brutal nature of the

KORNACKI: So, there is a report in the "New York Times" this morning that
suggested, closed to two weeks ago back on September 20th, residents in
Syria, a Syrian town near apparently where this execution took place of
Allen Henning --

MELHEM: This is the capital in Damas -- in Syria Raqqa, yes.

KORNACKI: Yes. Saw what they believed to be Allen Henning in an orange
uniform being taken on a truck into this hill, this hill that we all know
from the background from these videos, with heavy video equipment being
taken with him. Looks like the same place that`s been used, you know,
quite possibly for these other videos. Seems to me, really in that two
things, one, that is a big clue about, you know, where these guys are being
held. But the second thing is, it also suggests these videos are being
shot in anticipation of news because officially this video was released
because of the decision by the Brits to join the coalition but if that
September 20th date holds true, that is before that officially happened.

MELHEM: I think they are planning to kill all of these hostages regardless
of what the west does or does not, really. I think it tells you something
about the nature of this group. And also, I think the intelligence
community probably would know that these hostages were held in a fairly
secure place for ISIS which is Raqqa. The problem is Raqqa is about a
quarter of a million people there, it`s a fairly large city. And it`s
difficult for the United States or the Brits or any other western power to
try to rescue these hostages as the United States tried in the past and
unfortunately failed when they sent Special Forces to rescue them. This is
going to be difficult. And I think unless the United States and its
allies, regional allies and European allies rethink some of their taboos
and assumptions about including Special Forces in the mix to go along with
the air campaign I think ISIS will get away with murder.

KORNACKI: All right. Hisham Melhem, Washington bureau chief for Al-
Arabiya, thanks for joining us this morning. We are going to talk to you
again a little bit later next hour, we appreciate that.

This morning, Americans are also waking up to headlines like this. White
House says, U.S. is prepared to stop spread of Ebola. And this, the
Pentagon is sending more troops to West Africa to deal with the crisis, the
Ebola crisis. Up to 3,600 Americans in uniform. U.S. officials feel the
need to reassure Americans that they can and will control the outbreak,
it`s probably because of pictures like this, it`s a car wrapped in plastic.
Officials believe that Thomas Duncan, he`s the Liberian man whose Ebola
infection was diagnosed this week, that he road in that vehicle. They are
trying to keep any possible contamination limited. When Duncan first went
to the hospital with symptoms of the virus and told hospital officials he
recently been to Liberia, they responded it first by sending him home.

It wasn`t until yesterday that a hazmat cleaning crew scrubbed down the
apartment where he`d been staying. And a fifth American to be infected
with the virus will be taken to Nebraska medical center for treatment, he`s
a freelance cameraman working with an NBC News team in Monrovia, in
Liberia. It bears repeating only five people here in the United States are
so far have contracted this or are being treated here for it. So, how much
of this is just hype and how much is grounded in justified concern that
hospitals on the front lines of the outbreak as well as government
officials haven`t been doing enough?

Joining me is Dr. Corey Hebert, he`s the CEO of Community Health TV and
assistant professor at LSU Health Sciences Center and Tulane University
Medical Center. Doctor, thanks for taking a few minutes this morning. Let
me just start, there seems to be more confusion now as the weekends and
there was in the middle of the week about exactly what happened at this
hospital in Dallas with this patient who came in from Liberia. We know he
went in there. We know he was released. The hospital initially saying,
there is a screw up with his medical records here. But now last night the
hospital seems to have changed its story and said, no, his travel history,
his case history was fully accessible to everybody on the medical team
there. If that is true, I don`t know if it is, but if that`s true, that
question now stands out more prominently than ever, why on earth that did
this guy would leave the hospital in the first place?

Steve, if Ebola reaches outbreak proportions in the United States, it is
not going to be because of the virulence of that organism. It is going to
be because of the lack of communication between health care workers on the
frontline as well as the lack of systems management in the United States
and communication between the agencies. We look at the Department of
Transportation. We look at the CDC. They are not working in concert. We
know that the CDC can do what they need to do to make sure on the ground
that things are taken care of. But the most important thing is that we
can`t treat anything unless we know that there is something to be treated.
We have to communicate.

Now, I am telling all my health care workers out there, please make sure
that you ask those very serious questions that you weren`t usually asking
six months ago because this is the land of the odd now. We have to look at
the uncommon things. And I will tell you this, also. About the Dallas
group, their public health system is unparalleled. They do a great job.
However, we got to always know that we have to know what we are treating to
be able to treat it. And that hospital, if they are starting to change
medical records based on the severity of their foibles down there, then
that is something in the medical community we will not stand for. We will
also make sure we get to the bottom of that.

KORNACKI: And the other question here, as we see. This is the first Ebola
case that was diagnosed on U.S. soil. This is a gentleman who came over
from Liberia where the outbreak is sort of out of control at this point.
And it does the question of, he apparently when he came over here, when he
travelled over here was exhibiting no symptoms. There was an issue here of
whether he potentially lied, whether he lied in leaving Liberia and
entering the United States about his potential exposure to Ebola. But the
fact if somebody like that, he knew that he had been around people who had
this and who had died from this. And he knew he was coming to the United
States. It raises the possibility that others in his position might try to
do the same. I mean, it seems only logical right if you are being turned
away from hospitals in Liberia, you think you might have this and you can
think -- United States, most human beings I think are going to take that
chance if they can. What can and should the United States be doing to deal
with that?

HEBERT: Well, I have to say, and let`s be very clear here, there will be
no way that the United States can screen every person coming into our
country for Ebola. That will not happen. It`s impossible. The only way
that can happen is if we close the borders which is not going to happen.
But, you know, like just you said, human nature, if you are trying to get
out of a place where people are dropping like flies from a very serious
virus, you are going to do whatever it takes to get out. That is human
nature. And I am sure that is what he did. But we have to not forget the
real problem is that once he came here he told the medical professionals
that he was there and they didn`t do what they were supposed to do. So,
boots on the ground, nurses, medical office assistants, doctors, hospital
administrators, everyone has to work in concert so that this can`t spread
in the United States, bottom line.

KORNACKI: All right. My thanks to Dr. Corey Hebert for joining us this
morning. You know you are in Louisiana when you hear the name Hebert,
quarterback for the Saints.

HEBERT: You`ve got that right.

KORNACKI: Coming up. Just weeks before the crucial midterm election and
now comes the best economic news of the entire Obama presidency. He is
boasting about it. Will his party be rewarded for it? It`s next.


KORNACKI: Exactly one month today on November 4th, it`s Election Day. And
democrats just got some of the best, probably the best economic news for
all six years of the Obama presidency. The unemployment rate which reached
over 10 percent early in President Obama`s tenure is now falling under six
percent, just 5.9 percent, that is the lowest it`s been since July of 2008
just before the Wall Street melt down. Back when Obama was still a
candidate. George W. Bush was still president. Just last month, the
economy added nearly a quarter million new jobs, this according to the
Labor Department, much stronger than expected. This morning, just moments
ago the President touted the new numbers in his weekly address.


PRES. BARACK OBAMA (D), UNITED STATES: This progress has been hard, but it
has been steady and it is real. It is a direct result to the American
people`s drive and determination and the decisions made by my


KORNACKI: This is the campaign season. Plenty of democratic candidates
have trying to distance themselves from the President whose approval rating
is stock in the low 40s. But in a speech Thursday in his hometown of
Chicago or near his hometown of Chicago, I think it was Evanston, Obama
tied himself to all of those candidates.


OBAMA: I`m not on the ballot this fall. Michelle is pretty happy about
that. But make no mistake, these policies are on the ballot, every single
one of them.


KORNACKI: So this is it. We are in the midterm campaign homestretch now
officially. One month to go, republicans think they`re on the verge of
taking the Senate. Democrats are scrambling to keep it and hoping that
these economic news will boost them. There is a lot of big things in the
news right now too besides this. So, where do we stand with one month to
go until these midterm elections?

Here to discuss are MSNBC contributor, New York Times reporter Josh Barro.
Jessica Taylor, campaign editor for The Hill. Daily show co-creator and
founder of the reproductive rights advocacy group Lady Parts Justice, the
one and only Lizz Winstead.

Thanks everybody for joining us. So, Josh, you are the econ guy. Jobs
reports coming out. You know things I don`t understand. Seems to me
looking at that, that is the best news they have gotten on the jobs front
since Obama has been president.


KORNACKI: What is it look like to you?

BARRO: And it`s here. It is not just this month`s jobs report. It means
that over the last year, we have added between 2.6 and 2.7 million jobs.
For several years we`ve been stuck at these two million jobs a year pace
which was growth but it wasn`t enough to really push the unemployment rate
down as fast as we wanted. The economy really is picking up and that is
good news. I think the President is still in a difficult position to
really, you know, go out and campaign about that because people don`t feel
like the economy is great because the economy still isn`t great. And also,
it has taken six years to get to this point. I think part of, what is
interesting about this election and the economic news coming into this
election is that finally we are getting out of years of permanent crisis.

For years, people, they hated what was happening in Washington but they
felt like they had to pick those attention because it was important. The
2010 and 2011 elections both had enormous policy implications. This is the
first election in a wild where people can sort of reasonably argue about
how important the electoral outcome really is. Congress is probably not
going to do very much in the next two years regardless of whether democrats
hold the Senate or republicans take it over. Really, it mostly matters for
judicial nominations. So, I think actually this may contribute to low
energy around this election.

KORNACKI: That is something I had been thinking about too is sort of like
the choices. If you say the republicans are going to keep the House the
question is the Senate. Do the republicans gets the Senate or the
democrats gets the Senate? So, do you have a lot of gridlock or do you
just had gridlock?


KORNACKI: I feel sometimes people may have figured that out. And it`s
true, there isn`t much interests this time around.

TAYLOR: Right. And I think that`s why clearly, I mean, all the energy
here is on the Senate right now. The big question of whether it flips and
things too. I mean, you know, even just trying to get through a new
attorney general is going to be difficult whether they try to do it in the
lame duck or in a new Congress and things too. But I like Josh said, I
think that, you know, this is the best certainly news that they have gotten
and that comes off a disappointing August jobs number which I think
democrats were sort of cringing at, looking out at things.

KORNACKI: Do you think it translates into anything for democrats?

TAYLOR: I think it can give them a little bit of an uptick. But I mean, I
really think it may be too little too late. You know, when you are sitting
at home and when this is affecting you real time you are not going to care
about the numbers that are coming out. It`s, you know, it`s sort of like
the kitchen table politics of it. If you are not feeling that economic
boost, if you were thinking, was I better off six years ago. And, you
know, when Obama gave that speech at northwestern and said, you know, I am
not on the ballot with my policies are, I mean, you could almost feel sort
of the collective cringe from democrats, I think. You know, when we start
very quickly Mitch McConnell was out with an --


I mean, it`s just like that, was the sound that you didn`t want when you
have a president that is mired in the 40 percent, his 30 in the approval
rating and some of these critical swing states --


I mean, yes. Thirty percent, I mean, you know, he is the biggest drag on
them in these states that they need to win. And so, I think it probably is
a little too little too late.

KORNACKI: Lizz, where do you think the country stands first from a mood
standpoint? Where a month out, I can remember a year ago at this time, we
are saying, the government shut down. This is going to be the big issue in
2014 and the goes bonkers. So, that`s going to be the big
issue. I`m not hearing anything about either one of those now. Obviously
a lot of big stuff in news. But where do you think the mood of the country
is right now?

LIZZ WINSTEAD, "THE DAILY SHOW" CO-CREATOR: Well, I think the mood of the
country is, I don`t know if there is a mood of the country versus a mood of
where some of these particular races are being run. It is interesting to
me to watch the incumbent races versus when the seat is opening up to two
different people. You know, when you look at the infighting and weird
bickering like in Ohio about there`s a chicken in my lawn, like that is
literally been a giant issue or you look at Michigan with Gary Peters and
Terri Lynn Land and how those ads are just comedic in tone. But in
Michigan they are really pushing the reproductive rights issue and Peter is
really running against Snyder as well. Because Michigan is such a crazy
train. But then you look at Kentucky where it is like, hey, I am more pro-
coal and pro-gun than my opponent. So, you`re like, which one is a
democrat again, I`m not sure. So, I think rather than the country I like
to look at like regionally where things are happening and how that`s going
to shape-shape as far as the Senate goes.

BARRO: I think that`s interesting though. And I think this is a very
tribal campaign. People are running a lot of their campaigns about, you
know, Democrats are trying to attach to this broad dissatisfaction which
republicans on social issues. They see republicans being like, it`s not
even so much the specific policies about contraception as whenever
republicans talk about contraception, they often enough sounding out of
touch with voters. I think it reflects the limited policy implications of
the campaign itself. Democrats are basically trying to run a campaign
that, you know, you`re a democrat, we are democrats, we have values that we
share and that is why you vote for us rather than, I mean, they ran a
minimum wage, but there is not going to be a minimum wage increase in the
next Congress regardless of who wins --

KORNACKI: It is more philosophical.

BARRO: Yes. It`s almost more philosophical.

KORNACKI: Yes. But I will put you on the spot here because you say this
stuff every day. Right now if you had to guess, republicans taking over
the Senate, democrats keeping it, where do you think it ends up?

TAYLOR: I think at this point, slightly better chance for republicans. We
have a story up on our website this morning sort of looking at where we are
one month out. And, you know, we have seen just really good polls for
republicans this week certainly whether it is continuing good numbers in
Iowa, in Kentucky. I mean, Colorado is one that I wouldn`t even have
thought we were talking about a year ago at this time. But that is one
where, you know, we have seen Cory Gardner, really in a neck and neck race
there with Mark Udall. And, you know, the math has always been on
republican side. I think the question coming out was, could they, you
know, not screw up some of these primaries like they did the past two
election cycles. They really sort of successfully did I think. And right
now, I mean, the only republican incumbent I think is in a serious danger
is probably Pat Robertson.

KORNACKI: Pat Robertson. You know, it`s interesting too. We will going
to get into this in a show tomorrow, we will going to have to renew polls
to unveil in the show tomorrow. North Carolina candidates in Ohio. But we
are looking for that big campaign killing mistake -- incumbent, the 2012,
2014. It was Bruce Braley in Iowa. It was Bruce Braley in the video and
that is why Iowa. Anyway, we have to go. We will be back with the panel
in a little bit. But still ahead, what does the secret service do now to
fix itself? And could the scandal have an impact in next month`s election?
That is next.


KORNACKI: The resignation this week of Secret Service Director Julia
Pierson hasn`t been enough to stop a steady stream of embarrassing
disclosures about security lapses by the presidential protection agency.
Just yesterday, Bloomberg News reported that a man made it back stage to a
secure area at a dinner where the president was speaking last weekend by
impersonating a member of Congress. And on Tuesday we learned an armed man
road in the elevator with the President last month and then secret service
agents with the President had no idea he was armed until they he ignored
their order and they discovered a weapon on him. So, it comes two weeks
after an armed intruder jumped into the White House, ran all the way to the
entrance, knocked down an agent inside the entrance and made it to the east
back of the east room. He`s finally tackled by an off duty secret service
agent, someone who just happened to be there.

After what she described as a very difficult appearance before a
Congressional Committee this week, Pierson resigned as the Secret Service`s
director. The irony though that she`s first got the job after another
humiliating scandal for the Secret Service back in 2012. An incident in
which nine agents brought prostitutes to their rooms and on official
presidential trip to Columbia. The uproar after that was also then a house
cleaning. And now after an even more shocking scandal, Julia Pierson is
out. And it is the job of interim acting Director Joseph Clancy to fix the
troubled agency. Clancy served as chief of Obama`s protective detail until
2011 and he is currently head of security for the cable company Comcast
which owns NBC Universal. So, what will Clancy bring to the table that
Pearson didn`t? And what is the agency going to address to what appears to
be deeper problems facing the Secret Service.

Joining me now is Congressman Stephen Lynch, he`s a democrat from
Massachusetts. And Congressman, we just want to start by playing some of
your comments at Tuesday`s hearing with Julia Pearson. Let`s just take a
listen on that for a second.


REP. STEPHEN LYNCH (D), MASSACHUSETTS: I know you have a lot of wonderful
people over there, but this is not their best work. This is disgraceful.
This is absolutely disgraceful that this has happened. I am not going to
mention the fact that it took us four days to figure out that somebody had
shot seven rounds into the White House. This is beyond the pale. And I
have listened to your testimony very deliberately here this morning. And I
wish to God you protected the White House like you are protecting your
reputation here today.


KORNACKI: So Congressman, reporter who covers you up in Boston said that
in 15 years of covering you, he had never seen you as publicly angry as you
were at that hearing. Why was that?

LYNCH: Well, we had a lot at stake, Steve. Good morning. Thanks for
having me. The basic safety of the President and his daughters and his
wife, it`s at the core of our ability to have a stable government. And
it`s very troubling that we can`t even perform that basic function. And
it`s not a question of, you know, one instance. There has been a steady
drum beat as you have articulated of these lapses. And then what makes it
even more infuriating is after these lapses, there has been cover up and
efforts to minimize the risk to the president. So, we need to shape things
up at the secret service. I think we are doing that right now. I think
the decision for Director Pearson to resign was the right one. And I think
Joe Clancy could right the ships, so to speak, if given the resources and
the time.

KORNACKI: Yes. So what is the key there? Because sort of the irony in
all of this is that Pearson was brought in the first place after another
scandal, you know, that trip to Columbia in 2012 and the House cleaning
that took place after that. So, she was brought in to make sure no
embarrassment like that happens again. And here we are two years later and
she is leaving because of an even, you know, bigger embarrassment of series
of embarrassments play on her watch. Now we have a new director. So, it`s
not just change in person at the top, what else has to change or what does
that person have to change? What is Clancy has to change?

LYNCH: Well, I think it is important to remember that Pearson was brought
in after the incident with the prostitutes down in Columbia. So, they
brought in someone who was antithetical to that type of behavior, that frat
house behavior. She was probably the right person to do away with that,
but I think they neglected to look at the core security concerns that
should be the priority with the President at the White House and within the
Secret Service. So, she might have been the very best person to get rid of
the frat boy mentality and the antics that were going on there in Columbia.
But clearly, I don`t think she was a good fit for the job of protecting the
president, the White House and doing the core mission of the Secret
Service, which I think Joe Clancy will be. He was on the presidential
detail. But I think it is a big job. And if he is just the interim
director, I think that probably the full implementation of the reforms that
these panels will come up with will be left to the next director, and maybe
even to the next administration.

KORNACKI: All right. Congressman Stephen Lynch from Massachusetts, I
appreciate you taking some time this morning and talking obviously about an
important issue. We will keep an eye on as we go ahead. And still ahead,
more reaction this morning to the beheading of another western aid worker
in Syria and the red state democrat that many believe will be crucial if
democrats are going to hold the Senate in November. Senator Joe Manchin of
West Virginia is going to join us live. Stay with us.



that the intolerance, violence and hatred it espouses must be stamped out.


KORNACKI: That was Maria Perceval of Argentina last night delivering the
United Nation Security Council in which he response to the beheading or
British aid worker Allen Henning at the hands of ISIS. We will bring you
more on the threat of ISIS including the question of how the U.S. could
have possibly under estimated the threat as the President claims, that`s in
our next hour.


KORNACKI: Just one month from today, November 4th, as we said earlier, we
are going to find out if republicans grab control of the U.S. Senate or if
democrat hold them off. We have known all the year this was going to be a
tough fight for democrats. Their odds of holding on according to the New
York Times is upshot calculator slipping this week to just 38 percent.
It`s because the path for survival for democrats runs straight through some
very red states. Arkansas, Alaska, Georgia, Kentucky, Louisiana, North
Carolina. You know the west. These are places where democrats will going
to have to pick up some wins if they are going to keep the Senate. States
where President Obama loss in 2012. States were being associated with
Obama in the National Democratic Party can be the case of death for
democratic candidates.


UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: I`m not Barack Obama. I disagree with him on guns,
coal and the EPA.

UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: The administration`s policies are simply wrong.

UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: I have stood up to the President in my party when it
is right for North Carolina.

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: I don`t even campaign for him. I need to change some of
his policies.

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: As the few were running for reelection this year, two
quick questions. One, would you ask the President to campaign for you in
West Virginia?





KORNACKI: And that last person you saw there is not actually on the ballot
in 2014 but he is hitting the campaign trail, democratic Senator Joe
Manchin is from West Virginia, that`s a state that Obama lost by 27 points
in 2012. It`s also a state though where Manchin remains quite popular.
And now, in the midterm campaign homestretch, Manchin is emerging as his
party`s unofficial ambassador to red state America. This week, he went
down to Louisiana to go shooting with the endangered incumbent there,
democratic Senator Mary Landrieu. Manchin is also planning campaign stops
for Senate candidates in Arkansas, Georgia, North Carolina in the coming
weeks. This is what the battle for the Senate has come down to. Can
democrats win in some of the most anti-Obama states in America? We will
ask Senator Joe Manchin when he joins us live next.



UNIDENTIFIED MAN: I sued EPA and I will take dead aim at the cap in trade
bill because it`s bad for West Virginia.


KORNACKI: As West Virginia`s Joe Manchin, then a candidate for U.S. Senate
in a famous 2010 campaign ad. Back now to discuss the challenges facing
red state democrats. Of course as we say, the Road for Senate Control goes
to the red state this year. Senator Joe Manchin hass won four statewide
elections in the increasingly red state of West Virginia. He joins us now.

Senator, thanks for taking a few minutes and being on the show this
morning. I want to start by playing a clip. I am sure you have seen this
by now. No problem. I want to play a clip of the President this week, he
was back in the -- he was at Northwestern University in Evanston and he
laid out basically his case for these are the stakes of the 2014 midterms.
This is what he said.


PRES. BARACK OBAMA (D), UNITED STATES: I`m not on the ballot this fall.
Michelle is pretty happy about that. But make no mistake, these policies
are on the ballot. Every single one of them.


KORNACKI: So, Senator, these policies, my policies, they are on the ballot
this fall. Republicans already put ads out basically linking democratic
candidates in some of these red states to that statement saying, hey, you
want to vote against Obama here is your chance. Did the President hurt
your party`s cause in the red states by saying that?

SEN. JOE MANCHIN (D), WEST VIRGINIA: Well, he makes it more challenging,
let`s put it that way. We have four of the incumbents who I served and I
are very good friends with talk about Mark Begich in Alaska that I`ve been
up to. Mark is an absolutely excellent candidate. And Mark is a moderate
centrist. He represents all of Alaskans, not just a democrats in Alaska
are republicans, independents, everybody and that`s what people are looking
for. And it is a personal connection. I`ve just been down with Mary
Landrieu, I talked to Kay Hagan, I`ve been there, I`d be back in North
Carolina and Mark Pryor my good friend down there. These are four
excellent legislators who basically are right in the moderate middle.
They`re centrist. They`re democrats but they represent republicans and
independents just as feverishly as the Democratic Party. You lose that
middle, Steve and we`re going to lose America. And that`s the thing I
don`t want to see is extreme right and extreme left. We had too much of
that. We have to be Americans first. And these are four good Americans.
I hope to come back and are able to serve with me.

KORNACKI: So, we played the clip in the Senate for you when you run
Morning Joe earlier this year and you asked, you know, would you want the
President campaigning for you? No hesitation there saying, no. You know,
the quote will put this up. This was in Politico just this week. You say,
I wouldn`t want the President to come down and campaign for me and I sure
wouldn`t want him to come to West Virginia. We`re talking about Louisiana
with Mary Landrieu and then West Virginia. So, why is that? Explain why
you are so unhesitatingly saying no to that.

MANCHIN: Well, first of all, let me say that I have been in Washington
long enough to know that I`m not a Washington democrat. I am a proud West
Virginia democrat. Mary Landrieu is a proud Louisiana democrat. There`s a
difference. We still believe in giving people a chance, we believe in the
underdog always having a chance. We believe that people should get off of
their buttons and worked a little bit. We believe in things that we were
raised in our states. And that is little different than what the
Washington crowd believes. And I have friends who aren`t Washington
republicans, either. So, with that being said. Washington has basically
grabbed this thing and split this country apart. We can bring it back
together. But you have to have reasonable people like Kay and Mark and
Mary Landrieu and Mark Begich up there.

These are reasonable people that want to stay in the middle. The President
has basically has moved further to the left than what my state ever will.
I don`t agree with his policies. Some I do and some I don`t. And I speak
up openly about that respectfully. And I think we should be. That`s what
I`m sent there for. And I don`t think you are going to see Mary not
speaking up. I mean, Mary, she is as tough as they get. And Mark, both
Mark Pryor, Mark Begich, and also Kay Hagan, they are going to take care of
North Carolina. They are going to take care of Louisiana, Arkansas and
Alaska. That is their first and foremost priority. The president has to
understand that. And look at our voting records.

I mean, there is a lot of things the President wants me to support and I
say Mr. President, it doesn`t make sense in West Virginia. I can`t explain
explained it. I`m sure I`m not going to go home and try to sell it. It
doesn`t make sense. We need an all-in energy policy, we need to get our
financial house in order, we need to get a very direct strategic
international policy to let these terrorists know how we are going to
handle them. And we always said in West Virginia after 13 years bogged
down in that area money or military might would have changed that part of
the world, we would have done it by now. And in West Virginia, we
understand the definition of insanity. You don`t keep doing the same thing
over and think you`re going to have a different outcome. So, that`s just
different. And I think we have a right to speak out but I said, we have to
be respectful. I always want my president whoever she or he may be to do
well. I want to represent West Virginia. And I`m telling you -- go ahead.

KORNACKI: Yes. I know, in one of the areas obviously specific to West
Virginia where there have been differences with the White House, and a lot
of people in the national party is the issue of coal. An issue though
where you have had common ground and still have common ground is on the
issue of guns, on the issue specifically of background checks. And as you
and Pat Toomey from Pennsylvania who teamed up for this background check
bill last year. It didn`t not quite get through the Senate, Mary Landrieu
in Louisiana was with you on that. You were down there campaigning for
Mary Landrieu this week. The NRA is spending money now, has ads up in
Louisiana attacking Mary Landrieu on gun control, really because of that
vote. It looks like they are trying to send a message here. Are you
worried if Mary Landrieu doesn`t win after standing with you on the
background check bill, the NRA coming in and campaigning against her, if
she doesn`t win, does that going to have a chilling effect on getting other
democrats like her to sign on for stuff like this in the future?

MANCHIN: Well, Steve, let me just tell you this. I disrespectfully
disagree with the leadership of the NRA in Washington. The rank in file
members within, look at the bill that we put together, it is truly
protecting the Second Amendment rights. Mary Landrieu will fight to
protect the second amendment rights. And this is a common sense, we call
it common sense. All we said. Treat me like a law abiding gun owner that
I am. Don`t look at me like I`m a criminal because I want to own my gun,
go shooting her honey. With that we have all of our rights that were taken
away many years ago in this bill. And all we had to do was say, if you
don`t know somebody, if you go to a commercial transaction at a gun show,
close the loopholes. If you are on the internet, close the loopholes.

You don`t want people buying your gun that you don`t know who they are and
what their purpose is. You don`t want a person who is a criminal or has
been mainly adjudicated. We just don`t do that as law abiding gun owners.
And for them to distort this saying that Joe Manchin or Mary Landrieu or
anybody else that voted for that background check, and you can`t even get
common sense legislation without pushing it and exaggerating and putting it
on out of proportion. I`ve been very clear on this. If I can`t go and
look at something in a common sense manner and try to go home and explain
it, and if I am afraid of losing a vote then I am the wrong person to be in
Washington. If you are just wanting a yes person every time someone jumps
their jerks, pushing people to that far right or far left, this is common
sense. I don`t want a criminal. I don`t want someone who is insane or
irresponsible to have a gun. And I want to know. And we should be doing a
better job. But the bottom-line is, don`t treat me like a criminal because
I am a law abiding gun owner and not because I own a gun. I want to do the
right thing. Leave me alone.

KORNACKI: I want to ask you something that a lot of republican candidates,
probably every republican candidates in these red states are asking the
democratic candidates down there. I want to ask you. Do you think Harry
Reid is a good majority leader?

MANCHIN: Harry Reid is a good man. Now, a good majority leader basically,
he is overprotective. And I`ve told him. Mary has told him. Harry, we
came down here to vote. Let the system work. If the republicans want to
filibuster everything and make themselves look as obstructionists, then let
them have a chance to prove that they are trying to obstruct justice.
Don`t just say it. If we have to stay there 24/7 and we vote all night
long, let us vote. I would rather go home and explain why I voted for
something or voted against something than have to go home and defend why
I`m not voting at all. I came to Washington to do something. The people
in West Virginia expects me to do things to make it better in this country.
And if the U.S. does well, West Virginia is going to do just great. And I
am asking Harry to open the system up. There`s quite a few of us doing

KORNACKI: And I wanted, just on that point, finish on this one question.
Because you are up for reelection in 2016. Your seat is up in 2016. And
you have been making statements --

MANCHIN: 2018.

KORNACKI: You made statements that you are not sure you want to stick
around. There is a potential to run for governor in West Virginia in 2016.
That`s what I was talking about there. You`ve said, "I have never been in
a less productive time in my life than I am right now in the United States
Senate." Sounds like you are not too happy there right now.

MANCHIN: Well, Steve, I am frustrated. The bottom-line is, in West
Virginia, you know, when I was governor, and I was a legislator and I was a
small business person. I have a beautiful family. My wife, all of this.
We love our state as everyone that basically serves loves their state. I
was able to get things done in West Virginia because we brought people
together. I didn`t chastise republicans because I was a democrat. These
are my colleagues. These are my friends. I need to work with them. We
might disagree. But we worked for the better of West Virginia. Now, what
happens in -- I don`t know, I am going to wait to see what happens 2014.
If I don`t think it`s going to change, I`m going to take a hard look, if
this is a place that I want to finish my public career out doing nothing.

KORNACKI: Yes. When you put it that way, that is an interesting decision
to have to make. And then as we said, governor`s race in West Virginia in
2016, there are people who have been saying you might take a look at that.
But my thanks to West Virginia Senator Joe Manchin for joining us this
morning. We appreciate that. Another full hour of news and politics
ahead. So, stay with us.


underestimate ISIS?

And thanks for staying with us this hour. Another video released last
night by ISIS, another beheading of a westerner and another threat to kill
again after this. This time as we have been reporting this morning the
extremists have taken the life of British aid worker Allen Henning, the
fourth videotaped decapitation in recent months. And the issue to threat
at the end of the video to kill American Peter Kassig, he`s an ex-army
ranger who disappeared more than a year ago both traveling in Syria.
President Obama responded to the latest killing saying, quote, "Standing
together with our UK friends and allies, we will work to bring the
perpetrator of Allen`s murder, as well as the murders of Jim Foley, Steven
Sotloff and Davis Haines to justice."

And only one day before, the U.S. suffered its first casualty in the air
campaign against ISIS. A marine went missing in the Persian Gulf after he
ejected from his aircraft when it seemed the plane was going to crash.
Earlier this week, President Obama was pressed on how ISIS has been able to
make so many gains in recent months.


STEVE KROFT, "60 MINUTES" CORRESPONDENT: How did they end up where they
are in control of so much territory? Was that a complete surprise to you?

PRES. BARACK OBAMA (D), UNITE STATES: Well, I think our head of the
intelligence community Jim Clapper has acknowledged that I think they under
estimated what had been taking place in Syria.

KROFT: I mean, he didn`t say that -- just say that we under estimated
ISIL. He said we overestimated the ability and the will of our allies, the
Iraqi army to fight.

OBAMA: That`s true. That`s absolutely true.


KORNACKI: The director of the National Security Agency is also expressed
regrets about not having foreseen the threat of ISIS. But in contrast to
the administration`s claims NBC News reports, there is a paper trail of
warnings about ISIS as far back as last winter. The intelligence and
military officials tell the "New York Times" that late last year,
classified Americans intelligence reports painted an increasing ominous
picture of the growing threat. Back in February, the head of Defense
Intelligence Michael Flynn told Congress that, quote, "ISIL probably will
attempt to take territory in Iraq in Syria in 2014, as demonstrated
recently in Ramadi, in Fallujah." White House officials say they were
trying to take action but were constrained by the Iraqi government that was
fanning sectarian flames. Did the U.S. see the threat and try to act on it
or not? Our post 9/11 intelligence apparatus is massive, a whopping 17
agencies in more than 1.5 million people who hold top secret security
clearances, is it simply too much data to process or did the
administration reluctant to be drawn back into Iraq not want to see what
was actually there.

Joining me now to try to figure all this out is Colonel Lawrence Wilkerson,
former chief of staff to Secretary of State Colin Powell. Hisham Melhem,
he`s a Washington bureau chief for Al-Arabiya, and Michael Kay, retired
lieutenant colonel in the British Royal Air Force, former advisor to the UK
Ministry of Defense and now a Foreign Affairs reporter.

Colonel Wilkerson, let me start with you because that interview on "60
Minutes" we showed a clip of there with the President and Steve Kroft set
up was basically a back and forth this week between the intelligence
community and the White House. Intelligence community and this "New York
Times" article that appeared this week basically said, here is a quote from
somebody from that article, told the "New York Times" that some of us in
the intelligence community were pushing the reporting but the White House
just didn`t pay attention to it basically saying you could see the rise of
ISIS, you could see the deterioration of the Iraqi army, the White House
didn`t want to get drawn back in. Didn`t want to know what was there. Do
you think there is validity to that?

Steve, I have a lot of experience with the U.S. intelligence community,
believe me. And that article reeks of intelligence community leaks trying
to cover its own butt. That said, I do think there is guilt or there`s
blame to be shared on both the political side and the intelligence side. I
would add that I think DNI Clapper said that he overestimated the Iraqi
military based essentially on the lies he was told by the military
leadership in 2008, `09 and `10 as it insured the President and the
intelligence community that the Iraqi military who may have spent billions
of dollars on and trained for almost a decade was adequate to the task of
defending its own national borders. So, there is blame to go around for
everyone here.

KORNACKI: Yes. And Michael, I mean, the flip side of this, you say the
White House presented with this material, what exactly we are presented a
material. And how did they respond? There is also the question here of
people in the Intel community can now say, hey, we had this pinned down and
we put it all together. It`s a question of maybe, did they push hard
enough. You know, is this something sort of after the fact they are
saying, oh, we had it or did they really feel confidently or did they push
hard enough or did they not push hard enough to get this sort of the
President`s attention.

information has been out there. And I think like all of the complexities
of Syria, whether it be humanitarian atrocities or whether be the rise of
Islamic groups, everything leads back to Assad. I travelled to Tripoli
which is the city in North Lebanon over a year ago, September, in fact a
year to this month. And I spoke the radical sheikh called Omar Bakri (ph)
who is a big proponent of the Islamic rising, al Qaeda and ISIS within
Syria. And he told me all about al-Baghdadi, he told me all about this new
organization called ISIS that was growing within Aleppo, it`s capitals
overseen now, Raqqa. And he told me about the recruitment process. They
had already had offices set up all over Europe, all over the UK, all over
America where people could come in and they could effectively offer their
services to ISIS.

Here is the problem, Steve. I think we have to get our heads around this.
Let`s go back to Assad. ISIS is not the only Islamic group fighting in
Syria. You have al-Nusra, you have the Islamic Front, and you got the free
Syrian army. They`re the big four. The primary objective is to topple
Assad. That is how they came about in the first place. The west have
known about these groups for a long time. I spoke to a free Syrian army
commander last September. They have been there but they have been allowed
to grow and there I say, be supported by the likes of Saudi Arabia as a
proxy force. So the west doesn`t have to get involved. So that`s the way
it has worked but it has back fired. And like with the Mujahedeen in
Afghanistan in 1980s where the CIA funded them against soviets and they
turned into Taliban, this is what we`re seeing here, we are seeing history
repeat itself.

KORNACKI: So, it raises the question, I mean, again, the two components of
this are one, the strength and the ability to take territory that ISIS has
shown rather quickly but also the deterioration again rather quickly of the
Iraqi military, the Iraqi armed forces. If the united states, let`s say,
nine months ago, you know, late last year, whenever it was, if at the top
levels of the United States has decided this is a priority we want to
address that, could the United States have brought about -- would we be in
a different place right now. Could we be in a significantly different

HISHAM MELHEM, AL-ARABIYA: Maybe marginally. But not necessarily in a
significant way. Look, if there is a failure here, it is a political
failure of the leadership and the White House maybe at the State
Department, for not seeing the full complexity of what is happening both in
Iraq and in Syria. We all know about Raqqa, we all knew about ISIS, we all
knew about the strange, cohabitation between ISIS on the one hand, and
Assad regime for the long time. We all know that the Turks turned their
eyes away when they allowed many jihadists to cross their borders and money
coming from the gulf and other sources going to these radical groups. But
I don`t think this is an intelligence failure because everybody knew about
the rising power and influence of ISIS.

And incidentally, I mean, when the President of the United States himself
was saying that this is a junior varsity group when he was referring to
ISIS, General Flynn was saying publically that we expect them to move from
their bases in Syria to go to Iraq to prove that they can control not only
Ramadi and Fallujah but other places. The fact is that as Christopher
Hill, the former U.S. ambassador to Baghdad said recently in an article, we
did seriously ignore Iraq. And I think the president of the United States
subcontracted Iraq to his Vice President Joe Biden. And I really don`t
think that Joe Biden did an excellent job. This requires, you know,
presidential attention once in a while. I think both President Bush
ignored the sectarian policies in Maliki. And for six years, President
Obama also did not really push Maliki and push the admittedly brittle
political structure in Baghdad to do a better job. So, ended up within
Iraqi military that this badly led and it became worse under Maliki because
it puts its own cronies and positions in power. It tricks with corruption.
It lacks discipline and that is why it crumbled and half of the Iraqi army
now is ineffective.

KORNACKI: Right. So, Colonel Wilkerson, on that point and on the current
condition of the Iraqi army, it was General John Allen who is sort of
coordinating the coalition for the United States over in the Middle East
right now said yesterday that the Iraqi military is not going to be in a
position where it feasibly with the assistance of the United States retake
the city of Mosul for around another year. Basically we have to wait
another year until you can even make there. Is that time table just given
sort of political realities in this country, the growth of ISIS elsewhere,
is that too far off to be planning something like that?

WILKERSON: Well, I think that is probably a little bit of an overestimate
of the time that would be necessary if the political structure above it
were adequate. And I hope that with Iran`s help, the United States is
working for that adequate political structure right now. Let me just say
that none of these forces, of these so-called Islamic State would have been
successful particularly in Iraq, if it had not been for tribal affiliations
basically Sunni, administrations that support them. And they support them
in an alliance of convenience with Saudi money behind it, of course. Saudi
Arabian money. What they are doing is they are refuting the awakening that
David Petraeus created in `07 and `08 where they turned against al Qaeda
and became essentially allies of the U.S. in order to establish stability
in a government in Baghdad.

Once that government under Maliki turned on them and prisoned them, killed
them in some instances and generally pushed them out of the political power
structure, they then sought alliances in the Islamic State is one of them
in order to overthrow the government in Baghdad. So this is a far more
complicated issue than the media especially the mainstream media is making
it out to be. It is very complicated. It is more powerful in terms of the
Islamic State forces because of the temporary alliances than it is because
of innate fighting capability that they possess.

KORNACKI: All right. My thanks to Colonel Larry Wilkerson. And Hisham
Melhem of al-Arabiya. Michael Kay, you`ll be sticking around a little
while longer. We will tell you about that in a second. And we will be
right back.



FMR. PRES. GEORGE W. BUSH, UNITED STATES: -- Slaved in the greatest
democracy ever for 100 years. And democracy takes time to take hold. And
yet, there is impatience with that process. And Americans have to
understand that the lesson of 9/11 is still important today as it was right
after 9/11 and that is a human condition elsewhere matters to our national


KORNACKI: Former President George W. Bush on Thursday talking about the
threat of ISIS. To Road to Democracy in Iraq to discuss this issue
further, bring back the panel. Josh Barro from "The New York Times."
Jessica Taylor from "The Hill." "Daily Show" co-creator and founder of the
Reproductive Rights Advocacy Group Lady Parts Justice Lizz Winstead. So,
we are talking 2014 everything that sort of in the air here. George W.
Bush the former president who sort of gave rise to the big democratic
majority in the Obama presidency and all that, he reappears this week. How
do you think America reacts to hearing what he had to say this week on

interesting when he talks about, you know, the stability of one place is,
you know, Congress to American stability at home. And the question I just
ask all the time is whether it is Bush and that with Obama, when you keep
bombing people and then thinking you`re ending the current regime of
terrorists creating new strains, when you no longer have a history of
seeing hope, what happens? And that`s the part that scares me the most.
He keeps propagating we need to do this. But where do we go when the
country itself that we keep attacking no longer has a history of there was
peace and it was great and all they have ISIS a history of terror.

KORNACKI: Well, doesn`t it, it seems to be, when you look at the public`s
reaction of all of this over here, the most interesting thing to me is
there seems to be broad support for the steps that the President has taken
so far. There was also a surprising amount of support at least for me
potentially for having boots on the ground over there. But also, when you
start asking people questions, you see, there is a certain sense of
futility in all this when you talked to people. They don`t think in the
end, this is necessarily going to work. They just feel what else are we
going to do?

JESSICA TAYLOR, THE HILL: Right after 9/11, people wanted action. When
you saw us attacked at home in such a significant and devastating way they
wanted us to do something. That is why you saw such support for President
Bush right after that and he continued into Iraq before it became a bigger
crisis. And you know, you look at one year ago there was zero support for
air strikes in Syria. Now there is and I think that is because when you
see pictures of Americans being beheaded and such atrocious actions, you
have the public wanting something to be done. And whether this is arming
the moderate Syrian rebels or whether that air strikes or things I think
that you have a public who wants something done when they feel like, hey,
this is happening to an American overseas what is stopping them from coming

KORNACKI: And here`s what -- Josh, and maybe you can speak to this. Josh
talks about that difference between a year ago when the President said I
want to do air strikes in Syria and everybody, democrats, republicans
basically saying, no to that. And at that moment that sort of Rand Paul
strand of nonintervention is looking like, this is really sort of the way
the future of the Republican Party. So, it seem now after this beheading,
I am looking at somebody like Rand Paul, he`s been making sort of hawkish
sounds lately and it kind of makes me think the ground is shifting again.

JOSH BARRO, THE NEW YORK TIMES: Well, I mean, I think you had a period in
the Bush administration when people really bought into this idea that we
really needed to try to remake Middle Eastern society and do what President
Bush is talking about in that clip that in order to make the world a better
place, you have to change these foreign societies. I think people have
come around to the view that that is not productive, not our role. We
failed at it when we tried. Now what people are looking for as, you know,
how do we protect the United States and how do we make sure that whatever
problems exist in the Middle East or anywhere else in the world do not
become security problems for the U.S. And look at through that land a year
ago, I think people didn`t think that air strikes in Syria were productive
to that end.

Because it was presented as preventing, you know, humanitarian disaster in
Syria but fundamentally an interest Syrian problem. Because of these
beheadings, I think a lot of Americans have in my view overreacted in terms
of what they think is the risk to the U.S. Homeland from what`s happening
in Syria. Now they view that as something that`s not done in order to try
to change Syria but in order to try to protect the U.S. That said, there
was a very striking poll finding in a couple of weeks ago getting at what
you`re saying there, that people don`t think that the U.S. campaign is
likely to be effective in destroying ISIS but they support it anyway.

KORNACKI: Wait. And also, you see like there is the question of risk like
you watch these beheadings and people perceive a direct risk themselves and
their communities whatsoever. But I think there is also just that basic
human instinct that they did this to us, we are not going to sit here and
not do something back to them.

WINSTEAD: I think that`s right. But the other question I ask is what has
changed other than the beheadings which are horrible? You know, we say
things like arming the moderate Syrian rebels, what has changed that we can
actually identify them? I don`t know that when I hear that, I feel like
that sounds like mumbo jumbo. I haven`t heard them say, we definitely
noticed people because it seems historically that yesterday`s or today`s
moderate rebel is tomorrow`s next ISIS. You know, that seems to be it.
And so for me I just feel like these words come into play. I don`t even
know what a moderate rebel is. It is counter intuitive to begin with.
It`s like, they`d have to (INAUDIBLE), like I don`t even know what that
means. So, I don`t know what is different from August of last year to now
other than we have this elevated ISIS thing. Everything that surrounds it,
it seems like we don`t have any more information.

BARRO: I think it is the beheadings. And I think, you know, if people are
for some reason fascinated with beheadings. If they were shooting these
people to death it would be morally similar action but it would not capture
Americans imagination in the way that it has. I think it`s very
unfortunate and that we have allowed ISIS to basically hijack our political
process by doing these, you know, publicity stunts in a way that has
drastically change the decision making we are making about foreign policy
even though the situation on the ground has not changed --

KORNACKI: Although. I would say we talk about, you know, the recent
history in the Middle East, you know, groups like al Qaeda springing up.
You know, strong man, dictators like Saddam Hussein doing terrible things
to their people. It does seem even on a scale of where there is all sorts
of bad, there`s all sorts of rotten, there`s all sorts of evil, what ISIS
represents, this is new in a way. This is something that al Qaeda is not
comfortable with.

TAYLOR: Right. This isn`t something that you can put a label honor even
has borders in a way. You know, this is, you know, it didn`t come out of
Iran or Iraq or something necessarily. I mean, like the people on the
videos of the beheadings like they have British accents. I think that
really kind of struck people. You know, there is news of, you know,
American citizens is going over there and joining ISIS and things. I mean,
I think when you put -- when it feels like it is sort of more home grown
here in the U.S. or the fact that they could get back in with American
passports or with British passports, I think that that has a lot more
people on edge, you know, these are people more over in the Middle East.

WINSTEAD: But can I interject really quickly? In all of this
conversation, the one thing that still hasn`t happened is, I want my
representatives to be talking about us going to war. And that is not
enough. Our Congress, we have not debated it. And that is really
upsetting to me and to a lot of Americans.

KORNACKI: Congress doesn`t want to own this.

WINSTEAD: I know they don`t. There is a demand that they do because they
represent us. And if we are going to be sending people --

KORNACKI: I think they are doing the most cynical thing possibly, it`s not
just that they are not voting. But here`s what I think they`re doing. I
think the leadership and this goes for both parties, into the democrat and
republican leadership had basically told their members or win to their
member and said, hey, anybody asks you, you`re back home, asks you. Say
hey, I want to vote on this. I think we should be back voting on this,
guess what, we are not going to make you vote. And it seems like the
democrats and republicans, they seemed to have agreed on that.

TAYLOR: I think especially democrats, if there was an October surprise I
think it was everything that happened in September with ISIS and with this.
Republicans poll so much better on national security and national security
concerns. And that is why you are seeing it pop up in campaign ads, you
know, we need to do something with this threat, voters trust republicans
more on this. And you know, I think both sides I think you`re right, there
is sort of this wink and a nod like, you know, well, we voted, we are
arming the moderate Syrian rebels. It is very ambivalent.

KORNACKI: And there`s an opening there. And if you are a republican,
there is this opening there, this you know, this feckless weak, terrible
Obama administration that can`t handle this. If you are a democrat you can
distance from the President because I can`t believe he is not going to
watch for a vote. I want to vote. It`s like, hold me back. I want to
vote. I want to vote.

WINSTEAD: Yes. Yes. But not really.

KORNACKI: Right. Right. Exactly. Exactly. Somebody got that right. My
thanks to Josh Barro of "The New York Times," for joining us this morning.
Jessica and Liz, you will be sticking around and try your hint at UP

Coming up, we will go to Dallas for the latest on the quarantine of the
family that had close contact the Ebola patient. That`s next.


KORNACKI: The Dallas hospital is treating the first Ebola patient
diagnosed here in the U.S. is backing away from a statement it made about
its electronic health record system. Reported gaff that seemed to have
allowed the hospital to send a symptomatic Ebola patient home. Texas
Health Presbyterian Hospital says that there was no flaw in that system now
and the patient Thomas Duncan`s travel history actually was available, to
the doctors and the nurses treating him.

MSNBC`s Charles Hadlock is live outside the hospital this morning and he
joins us now. So Charles, this two versions of the story from the hospital
here about how this guy was initially released. Do we know what the truth

CHARLES HADLOCK, MSNBC REPORTER: Still raises a lot more questions, Steve.
Earlier the hospital had said that there was a flaw in the system that the
nurse`s software was slightly different than the doctor`s software and the
two didn`t communicate the fact that this patient had been to West Africa
as the nurse had written down and when the patient came in. They said that
the doctors never saw that because of this software flaw. And then, late
last night the hospital issued a two paragraph clarification basically
saying there was no flaw in the software, that the doctors and the nurses
have the same information about the patient`s travel information. There is
no word about why that connection wasn`t made to perhaps hospitalize and
isolate this patient two days earlier than he initially was on Sunday.

KORNACKI: And the other issue, Charles, is this patient`s family living in
the area and apparently it wasn`t until yesterday that hazards crew came to
begin a clean-up at this house. What do you know about how that is going
and where this family now is?

HADLOCK: Well, it took five days, as you know. The CDC, the Texas health
officials, the county health officials all knew that this man was staying
at an apartment complex about a mile from here at the hospital. But it
took until Friday for crews to actually begin the cleanup of that
apartment. In the meantime the four people that were living there were
having to stay there isolated from everyone else. The county tried to find
other housing for them in apartments or hotels but no one would take them,
they said. It wasn`t until the county judge, the county administrator here
reached out to faith based organizations, they found a home here in Dallas
in a gated community separate from other houses where this family can stay
for the remaining time of their isolation which is about another 20 days or

They are relaxed at home there now temporarily. In fact, as the judge was
driving them from the apartment complex to their new home, one of the kids
in the family asked if he can have a basketball and the county judge said
absolutely we will get you a basketball so they can enjoy a little bit of
freedom at this new house away from all of the publicity that they have
been getting here since this outbreak, since this case came to light a week
ago on Sunday.

KORNACKI: Yes. I can only imagine what their lives have been like from
last week. MSNBC`s Charles Hadlock are in Dallas for us. Really
appreciate that. We will be right back.



UNIDENTIFIED MAN: He became a five-time jeopardy champion in 1987. In
2012, President Obama main -- against the Consumer Financial Protection
Bureau. Please welcome Richard Cordray.


KORNACKI: That was Richard Cordray, the head of the Consumer Financial
Protection Bureau, the agency that Elizabeth Warren created. And as you`ve
just heard, he competed in jeopardy`s battle of the decade`s tournament 27
years ago. Cordray was supposedly unstoppable as a contestant in the `80s,
at least until the tournament when he came in second place improves
stoppable. We don`t have any regulatory agency chiefs on today`s UP
AGAINST THE CLOCK but we do have three news junkings, just itching for the
chance to compete and taste glory. Find out who they are, whether they
have, what it takes to be in UP AGAINST THE CLOCK champion, straight ahead.


JIM CUTLER, ANNOUNCER: Live from Studio 3A in Rockefeller Center, USA,
it`s time for UP AGAINST THE CLOCK. If you admire her comedic timing, wait
until you see her buzzer speed. Say hello to Lizz Winstead. He is
originally from an island in Wales with more sheep than people. It is
Michael Kay. This Tennessee native has gone from singing "Rocky Top" to
reporting for The Hill. Please welcome Jessica Taylor. And now the host
of UP AGAINST THE CLOCK Steve Kornacki!

KORNACKI: All right. Thank you Jim Cutler. Thank you contestants. Thank
you studio audience and thank you at home for tuning in for another
exciting edition of UP AGAINST THE CLOCK the fastest paced news and current
event show on basic cable weekend mornings. We have three new contestants
playing with us today. I will take them through the rule. As you probably
know them already. But just in case, we play for three rounds. Hundred
points in the first round, 200 points in the second round, 300 in the
third. Contestants, you can ring in at any time but be aware, you will be
penalized for any incorrect answers. Also, there are two special bonus
questions hidden throughout here. He will get to them when they come up if
they come up. Our contestants will be playing today not just for victory
and glory and honor but also, for a chance to play in our tournament of
champions at the end of the season. To qualify for that contestants, you
are first going to have to win today. As always I will implore our live
studio audience now. Please no outbursts, contestants require absolute
concentration and with that contestants, I`ll ask you, are you ready?



KORNACKI: They look and sound ready. We`re going to put 100 seconds on
the clock. This is the 100 point round. These are the easiest questions
we have. Hundred seconds on the clock. We start with this.

In an unusual move, the pollster who conducted it on Thursday retracted a
poll showing Mary Burke running five points ahead of Scott Walker in this
state -- Lizz.

WINSTEAD: Wisconsin.

KORNACKI: In Wisconsin. Hundred points for Liz. She takes the lead.
Hundred point toss-up. The end of the 12th inning on Tuesday night was
also the end of the season for this bay area baseball team. Liz?

WINSTEAD: San Francisco Giants.

KORNACKI: Incorrect. Jessica.

TAYLOR: Oh, that was Angels.

KORNACKI: Incorrect. I will finish it for you Michael, this bay area
baseball team that fell at the hands of the Kansas City Royals.

KAY: I have no idea.

KORNACKI: But you didn`t ring in so no points lost. Correct answer
Oakland As. Hundred point toss-up question. This in clement whether
accessory has become the symbol of Hong Kong`s -- Lizz?

WINSTEAD: Umbrella.

KORNACKI: Umbrella is correct. Stop the clock. Lizz, some exciting news
for you. That is the video bonus trigger question. It means we have a
bonus question that will be asked to you by a special celebrity guest.
There will be no penalty for guessing here. You get an extra 100 points if
you correctly identify who said this quote that our celebrity if you will
direct your attention to our video monitor will now read to you.

week`s UP AGAINST THE CLOCK quote of note. Which future U.S. president
once said, there is nothing wrong with this country which a good election
can`t fix? Good luck.

KORNACKI: Do you know who said that?

WINSTEAD: Let`s go with jimmy carter.

KORNACKI: I`m sorry, it was Richard Nixon, a man who knew something about
fixing elections maybe too. Anyway, nothing ventured, nothing lost.
Hundred points still for list. Let`s go back with 100 point tossup
question and start the clock with this. Six years after leading a pro-
Obama effort that she called the great slap, this comedian -- Lizz?

WINSTEAD: My friend Sarah Silverman.

KORNACKI: Sarah Silverman hosting SNL tonight. Correct. Hundred point
tossup. Quote, "I came within 59,000 votes in one state. So, for three
hours I was president said this former major party nominee this week. Call
time. It was John Kerry. John Kerry said that this week. Hundred point
tossup. Former President Bill Clinton cut his first on camera Senate
campaign ad of 20 -- Lizz?

WINSTEAD: -- Mitch McConnell and I`m blanking on her name.

KORNACKI: Time. Jessica?

TAYLOR: Alison Lundergan.

KORNACKI: Alison Grimes as you got the other is correct. Hundred point
tossup. Supporting pro-choice candidates endorsed by Emily`s list during
her book tour this month -- Lizz.

WINSTEAD: Lena Dunham.

KORNACKI: It`s Lena Dunham, 100 points for Lizz. Hundred point, oh, we
don`t get in. The round ends. Liz with 200 points to the lead. Jessica
out of negative territory with that correct answer. Michael yet to get on
the board. He is biting his time because he knows the good stuff is still
coming. The 200 point round here. Well, they get a little different in
the second round. These are twice as hard but twice as valuable. For the
100 seconds on the clock. And we will restart the game with this 200 point
question. His recommendation to keep troops on the ground was ignored by
President Obama this former CIA director writes in his -- Michael?

KAY: Petraeus.

KORNACKI: Incorrect. This former CIA director writes in his fourth coming
memoir. Jessica.

TAYLOR: Leon Panetta is correct.

KORNACKI: Leon Panetta is correct, 200 point for Jess. Two hundred point
toss-up. If reelected to the Senate in November he will explore a run for
the presidency. Jessica?

TAYLOR: Lindsey Graham.

KORNACKI: Lindsey Graham said this week. Correct. Two hundred point
tossup question. President Obama spoke on Thursday at this major Midwest
University. Jessica?

TAYLOR: Northwestern University.

KORNACKI: Correct. Stop the clock. This is the use it or lose it bonus
question, Jessica. The use it or lose it bonus question is somehow related
to the question that I just asked you. It is worth an additional 200
points if you get it correct. However, it is not without a risk. If you
get it wrong you will lose the 200 points that you just gained. So, it is
your choice. I have the question here. Will you use it or lose it?


KORNACKI: She will use it. OK. So how many times in its history has
Northwestern`s basketball team reached the NCAA men`s basketball

TAYLOR: Never.

KORNACKI: It`s correct. Never made it. Two hundred more points for
Jessica. We start the clock. Two hundred point tossup. Based on the hit
1980s TV series, this new Denzel Washington film was last weekend`s highest
grossing film at the Box Office? Time. It was the equalizer. Two hundred
point tossup. A new U.S. Chamber of Commerce ad in the Alaska Senate race
features -- Lizz.


KORNACKI: Incorrect.

TAYLOR: Rand Paul.

KORNACKI: That features Rand Paul. That`s correct. Former enemy of
Chamber of Commerce. Two hundred more for Jess` storming as the lead. Two
hundred point tossup. On Tuesday, California Governor Jerry Brown signed
the nation`s first statewide ban on this item commonly used at grocery
store checkout counters. Jessica?

TAYLOR: Plastic bag.

KORNACKI: Plastic bags banned in California. Two hundred point for Jess.
Two hundred point tossup. First Lady Michelle Obama was in Massachusetts
on Friday to campaign for democratic gubernatorial candidate Martha Coakley
who is being challenged by this republican. Jess?

TAYLOR: Charlie Baker.

KORNACKI: Charlie Baker is her opponent. Two hundred more for Jess. Two
hundred point tossup. This movie star with well-known Boston roots refused
to wear a Yankees hat while filming scenes for the newly released film,
"Gone Girl." Jessica.

TAYLOR: Ben Affleck.

KORNACKI: Ben Affleck Jessica is correct. End of the round. Jessica on
an absolute tear, 1,600 points. Far and away the leader as we head to the
third round. Michael at negative 200. And Lizz at zero but still very
much anybody`s game because these questions are worth 300 points. It does
not take much to get back into it here. So, we put 100 seconds on the
clock. We`re going to dim the lights for dramatic effect because this is
the round where we crown a champion. Three hundred point question here.
Mid 40 on the clock and we go with this.

Four sitting governors made a surprise trip to Afghanistan early this week.
Name one of them. Time. Cuomo, Sandoval, Haslow, Jay Nicks. Three
hundred point tossup question. On Thursday the U.S. partially lifted ban
on lethal arms equipment being sold to this Southeast Asian country.
Michael? Going to need an answer.

KAY: Yemen.

KORNACKI: Incorrect. Any answers here? Jessica or Lizz, they shake their
heads. Vietnam. Three hundred point tossup. Former Georgia Senator Sam
Nunn said this week that his daughter, current Senate candidate Michelle
Nunn was discouraged from running in this race by this top -- Jessica?

TAYLOR: Harry Reid.

KORNACKI: Harry Reid discouraged her from running. Three hundred point,
correct. Three hundred point tossup. Director Darren Aronofsky says that
ISIS is using imagery from this film, his 2014 biblical ethic as propaganda
in new flyers. Time. The film is "Noah." Darren Aronofsky`s Noah. Three
hundred point tossup question. Quote, "I have to ask my husband" replied
this democratic Congressional leader when asked if she will continue in her
role beyond 2016. Jessica?

TAYLOR: Nancy Pelosi.

KORNACKI: Nancy Pelosi said that this week. Three hundred point for
Jessica. Three hundred point tossup. Speaking in Chicago this week this
former Federal Reserve chairman said the mortgage market is so tight --

KAY: Bernanke.

KORNACKI: Bernanke said he couldn`t get refinancing on his own house.
Three hundred point tossup question. Newly released securities filings
show that over the summer hackers seized private data from 76 -- Lizz?

WINSTEAD: JP Chase Morgan.

KORNACKI: We accept that. Three hundred point for Jess to end the game.
Unfortunately, not enough for you because Jess ran away with it in a
second. In third round. Twenty two hundred points. Congratulations, you
are today`s champion and that means that Bill Wolff is going to tell you
what you have won.

TAYLOR: Thank you.

BILL WOLFF, STAFF ANNOUNCER: As our champion, your name will be engraved
using the finest sharpie ink on the all-new stain-resistant "Up Against the
Clock" gold cup. You`ll also receive a DVD copy of the classic 1988 film
"Cocoon 2: The Return," personally autographed by Wilford Brimley. And
you`ll get to play in our jackpot round for today`s grand prize, a $50 gift
certificate to quick meal food cart, Big Town Manhattan, the only street
meat vendor in the greater 45th St. area operated by a former chef of the
Russian tearoom. I had it for lunch today. Delicious. Enjoy the meal and
congratulations. Back to you, Steve

KORNACKI: All right. Congratulations again Jess. Quite a prize package.
There is the cup. Don`t drink from it. Lots of toxins in there. But I
have for you your video, your jackpot bonus question. This is to win that
street meat gift certificate. For $50 for some of the best food you have
ever eaten, here is your jackpot question. The secret service currently a
part of the Department of Homeland Security was originally created as a
division of this cabinet.

TAYLOR: Department of Treasury.

KORNACKI: Department of Treasury is correct. Let`s give you that check,
we have a new grand prize champion. Congratulations. Take this check to
that vendor. They will honor it. Thrust me or we`ll give you a funny
look. Congratulations. Jessica Taylor, new champion. We will see you in
the tournament of champions. Michael and Lizz, thank you for playing the
home edition for both of you. Fun for the kids. Fun for people of all
ages. Thank you for playing and we will be back after this.


KORNACKI: We are back, we have a few extra minutes here at the end of the
show, and we wanted to show you something that you might have heard about
but the video is priceless. We always talk about this Joe Biden moments.
Joe Biden was up at Harvard up in Cambridge the other day. He was talking
to a bunch of kids. One of the kids was the vice president of the student
body at Harvard. If I could own half the world someday. But anyway, today
is the vice president of the student body at Harvard, Joe Biden had this to





KORNACKI: See, I always say I love Joe Biden. Everybody is like, oh, I
like it. That`s a classic Joe Biden moment.

WINSTEAD: You know, any time Joe Biden shows his humanity, it`s different
than a gaffe of it of somebody who says something idiotic, because they
don`t know anything. Joe Biden speaks his mind, and it`s part of his
charm. I mean, where would Joe Biden be without Joe Bidenisms?

KORNACKI: It`s real. That`s the thing. There`s people who say things
that are just so scripted and you call it a gaffe. But all it feels to me
like we`re always saying we want these politicians who have real blood in
their veins and really say what`s on their mind or whatever. And let
punish them. We just punish them. And you know, Biden is what we say we

TAYLOR: Yes. I mean, he comes out. You know, health care is a big deal.
And, you know, I mean, he says what`s on his mind certainly. But I mean,
also, what he said is true. I mean, being vice president is a very -- it`s
a non-gratifying job for a lot of people. I mean, you have a long history
of, I mean, John Adams wrote a lot of things saying just how horrible he
felt the vice presidency to be. I mean, but I think Joe Biden is a sitting
vice president, I think he loves it. I do.


TAYLOR: I mean, he wants to be president in his mind. But, you know, just
let Biden be Hillary.

KORNACKI: John Nance Garner in the 1930s said the vice presidency is not
worth with a warm bucket of spit. But a pretty nice house, I know that.

KAY: You know, Charisma is fantastic. And I don`t think we see enough of
it in our political leadership. But it`s got to be married with integrity.
You`ve got to have integrity. Because without that, you know, the whole
credibility piece goes but I`m definitely --

KORNACKI: All right. So we have a time here to go around and ask as we
always do at the end of the show. What do you know now that you didn`t
know in the week beginning? And Lizz, I`ll start with you.

WINSTEAD: Well, in Texas the fifth circuit held up SP2 (ph), a horrible
law that strips Texas women of their fundamental civil rights as far as
reproductive health care goes. And one million Texas women will have to
drive 300 miles and more to get -- care, it`s terrible.

KORNACKI: All right. Yes. That was big news this week. And Michael?

KAY: Well, I actually found out that Oakland Bay is as definitely as bay
area --

KORNACKI: The other bay area team.

KAY: The other bay area team. That was a big education for me today. I
still think that we still don`t know the answer to Syria. I still think
that we need to keep working on that political road map. Because if we
don`t have the political road map, then air strikes will be short term, it
will be ineffective and possibly detrimental. So, that`s my take for the

KORNACKI: And Jess I`m assuming you know that Tennessee is going to beat

TAYLOR: We are going to beat Florida. And I`m rushing back to see that.
So, I have faith in my football team that we`ve turned things around. But
on a serious note for the midterms, I think one thing that I learned this
week to continue watching is that, you know, as much as we talk about
republican in fighting democrats, don`t be surprised if we see them start
to point fingers, who is to blame for losses. I destroyed this week on the
feud in South Dakota, you have former Senate majority leader Tom Daschle
backing the Senate democratic candidate there Rick Weiland. Tom, Harry
Reid has said some not great things about him. I mean, it`s almost -- it`s
a muted open warfare. But certainly there, it`s democrats lose like,
you`re going to see I think more finger pointing on the democratic side.

KORNACKI: Well, I owe you a big thanks. Because we didn`t coordinate this
ahead of time. You just set up tomorrow`s show. Because on tomorrow`s
show, Rick Weiland and the democratic Senate candidate in South Dakota who
has Harry Reid and Tom Daschle, former and current democratic leaders at
odds with each other. Rick Weiland will be on the show. We`re going to
this ask about that. We`re going to ask about that campaign and that race.
That`s tomorrow. A lot of other stuff tomorrow. Including the brand new
polling data on three of the biggest Senate races that will be released
during the show tomorrow. You don`t want to miss that. So, check it out.
I want to thank Lizz Winstead, Michael Kay, Jessica Taylor if you for
getting up with us this morning. Thank you for joining us today.

Coming up next, "MELISSA HARRIS-PERRY" with guest host Dorian Warren on
today`s MHP. Had a nine justices on the Robert Supreme Court are
determining who can and who can`t vote on America. And potentially, the
results of this year`s midterm elections. That`s "MELISSA HARRIS-PERRY"
with Dorian Warren coming up next. We`ll see you right here tomorrow, 8:00
a.m. Eastern. Thanks for getting UP.



Copyright 2014 Roll Call, Inc. All materials herein are protected by
United States copyright law and may not be reproduced, distributed,
transmitted, displayed, published or broadcast without the prior written
permission of Roll Call. You may not alter or remove any trademark,
copyright or other notice from copies of the content.>