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PoliticsNation, Thursday, October 9th, 2014

Read the transcript from the Thursday show

Date: October 9, 2014

Guest: Dennis Stucky; Jody Westby; Patricia Bines; Cedric Alexander,
Richard Wolffe, Karen Finney, Eric Guster, Faith Jenkins

REVEREND AL SHARPTON, MSNBC ANCHOR: Good evening, Ed, and thanks to you
for tuning in. We start with breaking news tonight on what we call the
Ferguson effect. In the two months since Michael Brown was shot and killed
in Ferguson, Missouri, we`ve seen more and more people using cell phones to
record alleged police misconduct. And a robust national conversation about
appropriate police conduct from coast to coast. The latest from New York.
One would appear to be an officer knocking a teenager unconscious for
smoking a cigarette that the officer believed was marijuana.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You can`t do that!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was just a cigarette. It was just a cigarette.


SHARPTON: The other incident, what appears to be an officer stealing from
a man.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You see this? Look. You see this? You see this?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Give me my money, man.


SHARPTON: Later in the show, we`ll have more on these shocking videos,
part of a national conversation sparked by Ferguson.

But in that town tonight, supporters are honoring Michael Brown at a candle
light vigil in front of the police department. And just last night in
nearby St. Louis police shot and killed a teenager who they say fired a gun
at an officer. His family disputes that claim. Though, a gun was found at
the scene. The teenage are was also facing trial for prior gun shots.

Hundreds of protesters gathered in the area last night. And several police
cars were damaged when some kicked in the car windows and tail lights.

Joining us now is Patricia Bines, Democratic committeewoman for Ferguson
Township and Dr. Cedric Alexander, president of the national organization
of black law enforcement executives and chief of police for DeKalb county,
Georgia. Thank you both for being here.

ENFORCEMENT EXECUTIVES: Thank you for having me.

for having me.

SHARPTON: Patricia, let me start with you. Today, two months ago, 60 days
ago, Michael Brown was killed by a policeman there in Ferguson. They are
having a vigil tonight. What`s the mood like in the Ferguson area today,
two months later?

BINES: Well, you know, today is a very somber mood, especially in light of
what happened last night. And actually today happens to be my birthday and
gives me the opportunity to think about how Mike Brown won`t get the
opportunity to have another birthday again.

And it`s tense, especially knowing that there are organizations and people
coming into the St. Louis area for peaceful protests. But now the events
of last night was you might as well have just thrown gasoline on the fire.
And we are back in a heighten sense and awareness and not quite sure how
emotions are playing out today.

SHARPTON: Now, let me go to you, Dr. Alexander. I want to play out the
St. Louis police chief described last night`s shooting. Listen to this.


the gun at the officer and fired at least three rounds at the police
officer. At that point, the officer returned fire. And the officer moved
towards the suspect, the suspect continued to pull the trigger on the gun.
Once we recovered the gun, we learned that gun malfunctioned, and it was


SHARPTON: Now, he says there that the young man fired at the police three
times and was about to do more. But people in the community dispute that.
I mean, this shows this real distrust between police and community
residents. What does this say to you?

ALEXANDER: Well, what it says to me very clearly, Reverend Sharpton, is
that there`s a growing distrust across this country, appears to be as it
relates to police and community right now. We look in light of the recent
events that have occurred post Michael Brown`s death and even prior to that
is creating so much anxiety and pause for a number of people who are now
seeing video footage they have never seen before. And regardless of what`s
right or wrong here, it`s creating a great deal of distrust.

You know, I was in a community meeting last night here in DeKalb county,
Georgia, which is a great county. Wonderful people, wonderful citizens,
great relationship with the police department here. But here`s what I`m
hearing a lot of. I`m hearing from people who are now beginning to ask
questions they never asked before, Reverend Sharpton.

If a police officer get in behind me, do I pull over in the middle of the
night? Should I step out of my car if they ask me to? Should I invite
them into my home if they knock on my door?

These were questions there were seldom asked before by citizens. But in
light of everything that is going on today, in everything that we`re
hearing about, there`s this growing separation and distrust between police
and community. We got to find a way to fix that. One thing for certain, a
community cannot exist without police. And police have to have community
in order to be effective. So we got to work on some communicating here.

SHARPTON: They have to have the trust of the community to do the job right
and trust is earned.

You know, Miss Bines, "the Washington Post" reported tensions with the
Ferguson police saying, the force continued to crack down on protesters
even after federal and state officials got involved, I`m reading from "the
Washington Post," the Ferguson police department continued and even
accelerated efforts to suppress peaceful protests using arbitrary and
inconsistently applied arrest policies, according to justice department
officials. Arbitrary and inconsistent policies, is this in any way a way
the police force should be interacting with its community, Miss Bines?

BINES: Absolutely not. Since the department of justice has stepped in,
I`ve been working very closely with them to make sure that they know
exactly what is going on. I`m not going to miss this opportunity to work
on behalf of the community is let interested parties know what`s going on.
There are things I`ve seen that have been inconsistent, that I have
questioned. We have the ACLU, which has come in with the lawsuit, you
know, and saying that they did things that were unconstitutional. I have
personally seen even after the department of justice has stepped in,
officers still not wearing their name tags.

So there seems to be, in this community right now, a sense that the police
feel that maybe they`re untouchable, or that way they don`t have to follow
what the department of justice is saying, but there are people like me and
other people in the community where, we`re going to make sure that changes.
And we need to have an open dialogue to start establishing trust again.
Hopefully we can get to that point after this weekend, but we have to do
that soon.

SHARPTON: Patricia Bines, thank you for your time tonight. Dr. Alexander,
stay with me.

The shooting of Michael Brown has sparked a national conversation about
policing. In the last few months, many people have recorded interaction
with police. But a new video from Washington, D.C. is very different from
most what we`ve seen. Police were responding to a call about a burglary in
a wealthy area, and stopped a disabled African-American man who works in
the neighborhood. A white homeowner who knew him got involved.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Excuse me. What exactly did you get a call for?
What address did you get a call for? Pardon? What number, please?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: 3602, and you`re in the 4500 block. That address
isn`t even in this neighborhood.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He`s coming. We have a burglary. HE is coming with
bags. He gets loud and boisterous.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Because you`re accusing him.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Didn`t accuse him of anything. Come on, Dennis, she
said you can go. Come on.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Come, you just come with me.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She doesn`t have the authority to stop him and you
need to tell her that. Because I`m reporting this. I`m an attorney and
this is wrong. Now please leave our neighborhood.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All of the other police officers know me. They know me
down the way. They know me.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Just because he`s black doesn`t mean he`s here to rob
a house. He works for us. He`s been in this neighborhood for 30 years.


SHARPTON: He`s been in this neighborhood for 30 years, but stopped for no
reason. It`s a powerful video with a very different ending. Many, many
others that we`ve seen has not ended this way.

Joining me now are the two people in that video. Dennis Stucky, the man
who was detained by police, and Jody Westby, who spoke to the officers.
Thank you both for being here.



SHARPTON: Jody, I want to start with you. What did you think when you saw
the officer confront Dennis?

WESTBY: When my housekeeper came in my home and called for me and told me
the police had Dennis and from the immediate look, I could see he was on
the ground. She was ordering him to stay on the ground, and that he was in
trouble. And I told her that he had worked in the neighborhood, he had
done nothing wrong. And she just completely ignored me, told me to stand
back. And I knew that this was a situation that appeared to me immediately
to be profiling. I turned to my housekeeper who had her phone in her hand
and asked her to start video recording. Dennis asked her, the policewoman,
he asked her if she was wearing a video camera and she said yes.

SHARPTON: Now, weren`t you scared? I mean, what was going through your
mind that made you just stand up aggressively to the police at that

WESTBY: I knew Dennis was in danger. And I knew that this was a wrong
situation. And that they had no probable cause to be stopping him, much
less, she was preparing to search him, I guess, by putting on her blue
latex gloves and I just immediately went into response mode and tried to
defend him and protect him from the situation that I knew was not
appropriate or legal.

SHARPTON: Dennis, were you scared when the police stopped you?


SHARPTON: What was going through your mind before Jody came to your

STUCKY: That I was going to jail or something, get locked up for nothing,
for being out in the area.

SHARPTON: Now, you worked in that area how long?

STUCKY: Over 30 years.

SHARPTON: And you said a lot of the police in the area knew you?

STUCKY: Yes, they did. Lot of them do.

SHARPTON: But the officer wouldn`t hear you at all?

STUCKY: Not at all. These cops actually (INAUDIBLE) now. They isn`t ever
been out there. Never.

SHARPTON: Cedric, just one second, let me ask you this, Jody. What do you
think would have happened if you hadn`t confronted the officer, Jody?

WESTBY: I think what would have happened. She would have opened his bag.
And he has a small zipper bags that he carries a few simple little tools
that he can do simple little assistance things, such as, you know, pruning
snipers, dandelion digger. And I think she would have opened the bag,
looked at the tools and gone to the conclusion that he would be using those
to enter homes.

Even though when she first saw him, he was standing there talking to a
neighbor`s gardener. And I, you know, it was just clearly her presumption
of he was guilty until she could figure out that he wasn`t. And that`s
just not how our country works.

SHARPTON: Cedric Alexander, let me ask you. Separate from this particular
incident, not this incident, but we`ve seen a lot of recordings of
interactions with police. Will these videos change the relationship
communities have with police?

ALEXANDER: Well, it`s going to be a struggle right now, to be honest with
you, Reverend Sharpton. What`s going to occur over time, hopefully we`ll
move past some of this, but clearly what`s emerging in this country is this
continued, here again, separation between police and community, in light of
what we all are seeing every evening on our news channels. This is
troubling to all of us. And certainly, this creates a certain amount of
pause in regards to, more than anything else, that distrust.

But what we have to figure out here real soon is how we`re going to create
and how we`re going to merge these two entities back together. Because
here again, police is going to have to find a way in their respective
communities to begin engaging communities, becoming close to their
community. And communities are going to have to engage the police, because
they need their support as well too.

SHARPTON: Well, I think it begins with an honest dialogue, and I think we
need a lot more --

ALEXANDER: Absolutely it does.

SHARPTON: I think we need a lot more Jodys in this world.

Dennis, let me ask you something, what did you think about what Jody Westby
did for you that day?

STUCKY: She saved my pride, you know. She came out and said to the police
officers, and I appreciate what she did for me.

SHARPTON: I think if more people stood up, then we could create that
dialogue a lot sooner and a lot more effectively.

Dennis Stucky, Jody Westby and Cedric Alexander, we thank you all for your
time tonight.

WESTBY: Thank you.

STUCKY: Thank you very much.

ALEXANDER: Thank you, sir.

SHARPTON: Coming up, a police officer accused of stealing a thousand
dollars from a man on the street and then pepper spraying him. It`s caught
on tape and it`s in tonight`s justice file.

Also, are Republicans trying to scare people into voting GOP? Just check
out the ads.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Evil forces around the world want to harm Americans
every day. They`re entering into our country through Arizona`s backyard.


SHARPTON: Plus, we`ll go live to Dallas for an Ebola update on that
sheriff`s deputy in the hospital. And new questions about the failure to
save the life of Thomas Eric Duncan. Stay with us,


SHARPTON: We have breaking news tonight from Dallas on that sheriff deputy
hospitalized after being in the Ebola patient`s apartment. And a warning
today from the CDC. We`re live in Dallas, Texas, next.

But first, we want to hear from you. Keep the comments coming on our
facebook page, or tweet us @politicsnation.


SHARPTON: Breaking news tonight in Dallas. The sheriff`s deputy who went
to the deceased Ebola patient`s apartment has tested negative for Ebola.
He was hospitalized yesterday, but good news, the Texas department of state
health services says he does not have Ebola.

But meanwhile, the family of Thomas Eric Duncan says he received unfair
treatment, and are calling for an investigation into his death. Questions
have been raised about whether he could have survived if the Dallas
hospital had treated him immediately. And today, at a global conference,
the CDC director stressed the work ahead.


TOM FRIEDEN, CDC DIRECTOR: I will say that in the 30 years I`ve been
working in public health, the only thing like this has been aids. And we
have to work now so this is not the world`s next AIDS.


SHARPTON: Joining me now from Dallas is NBC`s Sarah Dallof.

Sarah, the hospital was on the defensive today, saying, quote, Mr. Duncan`s
physicians treated him with the most appropriate and available medical
interventions. What can you tell us?

SARAH DALLOF, NBC NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Well, good evening, Reverend. This
was the first time we`ve heard from the hospital on several of these
issues. The pastor for the fiancee of Mr. Duncan said she`s going through
a lot of what ifs in her mind right now. What if the hospital had admitted
him when he saw them on the 26th? Would that have resulted in a different

Well, the hospital today is giving us a little more information into that
initial visit when Mr. Duncan first presented with a fever and abdominal
pain. He did tell the nurse that he had come from Africa. Well, they say
at the time, his condition did not warrant admission and he was not
exhibiting symptoms specific to Ebola.

They also address the issue as to why he didn`t receive the blood serum.
You remember that one of the patients, Dr. Rick Sacra, received a blood
transfusion from another surviving physician, Kent Brantly. The question
was why didn`t Duncan receive that serum? Well, the hospital today said
that his blood type wasn`t compatible with the surviving Ebola patient`s.
And that`s why he didn`t receive that serum.

SHARPTON: So he didn`t receive the serum, because his was not compatible
and the other was compatible that did receive the serum?

That is correct. Dr. Kent Brantly who gave that serum to Dr. Sacra, those
were compatible. Now, Dr. Brantly tells NBC News he was approached and
asked if he would be willing to give a blood transfusion, he said yes, of
course. He said he was never contacted again by the hospital. And the
hospital saying today it`s because Sacra -- excuse me, Brantly and Duncan,
the patient here in Texas, their blood types were not compatible.

SHARPTON: All right, well, we`re going to stay on top of this story
obviously. NBC`s Sarah Dallof, thank you for your time tonight.

Now we turn to breaking news out of Pennsylvania tonight, and a chilling
new detail from the manhunt there. For 27 days, police are searching for
Eric Frein, accused of a deadly sniper attack last month, killing a police
officer. Law enforcement officials read portions from notes found in the
woods they allege Frein wrote.


Got a shot around 11:00 p.m. and took it. He dropped. I was surprised at
how quick. I took a follow-up shot on his head, neck area. He was still
and quiet after that. Another cop approached the one I just shot. As he
went to kneel, I took a shot at him and jumped in the door. His legs were
visible and still.


SHARPTON: They also announced new charges against Frein, following the
discovery of explosive devices.


BIVENS: I mentioned the two pipe bombs which were fully functional and
capable of being deployed. As a result of this, additional charges have
been filed against Eric Frein. Two new counts of possession of weapons of
mass destruction were filed today.


SHARPTON: Joining me now is MSNBC`s law enforcement analyst and retired
ATF agent Jim Cavanaugh.

Jim, thanks for being here, first of all.


SHARPTON: Why would police read Frein`s note like that?

CAVANAUGH: They`re trying to keep the public informed and on the side of
the police in this, Rev. And I think the population of citizens in
Pennsylvania are on the side of these troopers and police. But to give an
insight into what a dangerous cold-blooded coward this guy is. And do not,
you know, think that maybe he is some kind of a guy you should help or aid
or some robin hood. I mean, this guy is a typical, you know, any
government crack pot with a grandiose idea that he should write down what
he did because it is so important to the rest of us. And it just give you
a picture into his mind.

SHARPTON: He read another section of the note, describing his actions
after the shooting. Watch this.


BIVENS: I ran back to the jeep. I made maybe half a mile from the GL road
-- that`s the gameland`s road -- and hit a roadblock. I didn`t expect one
so soon. It was only 15 to 20 minutes. I did a k turn a quarter mile from
them and pulled into a development I knew had unfinished access road.
Hearing Hilos, I just used my marker lights, missed the trail around a run-
off pool and drove straight into it. Disaster. Made half attempt to stash
AK and ran.


SHARPTON: He sounds like he was prepared to make some sort of get-away. I
mean, how significant is it that he was caught off guard by a quick police
response, Jim?

CAVANAUGH: Well, that`s right, Reverend Al. You know, in the news
business, you showcase bad police work, but this is a great example of
great police work by setting up a quick road block and the helicopter being
deployed quickly.

He likely was going to escape, not be known who he was and might have, you
know, staged another killing in a few days or a week. But because the
roadblock made him turn and the helicopter made him turn out his
headlights, he ran the jeep into the pond.

You know, he thinks he`s a great soldier, but he`s just really a crack pot.
And so, now he has to run through the woods at night and hang his AK-47 up
and, you know, go into the Serbian soldier mode.

So I`d say he`s getting desperate. He`s going down mentally, physically.
Doesn`t have enough equipment, ammunition, as he thought he might need.
And there`s been four sightings of him this week. I think they`re closing
in on him. He`s a very dangerous guy.

These (INAUDIBLE) anti-government people, Rev., they have this grandiose
ideas and they think that their death is going to be the trigger, you know,
that starts the revolution against the rest of us. But what he doesn`t
realize is the rest of us, the police, the citizens, all of us, America, is
against him. We are together to see him captured.

SHARPTON: But there`s a lot of fear in that community, 27 days and we`re
on top of it. We`ll stay on top of this story.

Jim Cavanaugh, thank you for your time tonight.

CAVANAUGH: Thanks, Reverend Al.

SHARPTON: Coming up, Republicans running hard on fear. They`re scaring
you on ISIS and Ebola. And guess what? It`s all somehow President Obama`s
fault. Funny how that works.

Plus, two disturbing videos of police here in New York city. A teen
knocked out allegedly over a cigarette. And an officer that appears to
have robbed a man of $1,000.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You see this? Look. You see this? You see this?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Give me my money, man. Give me my money.



SHARPTON: Did you know that President Obama is to blame for Ebola? Me
neither. But apparently that`s the new talking point on the right. We`ll
look at it and how GOP politicians are trying to literally scare people
into voting Republican, next.


SHARPTON: Now to the politics of fear. The republicans` latest campaign
tactic. A month before the midterm election, the GOP has a new plan. Try
to scare the wits out of voters by fear mongering over Ebola and ISIS.


UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Radical Islamic terrorists are threatening to cause the
collapse of our country. President Obama and Senator Shaheen seem confused
about the nature of the threat.

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: -- that ISIL does not present an imminent threat to this

UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: Really? Can we take that chance?

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Evil forces around the world want to harm Americans
every day. They`re entering into our country through Arizona`s backyard.


SHARPTON: Federal officials have repeatedly says, there`s no intelligence
showing that ISIS is threatening to cross the southern border. Just like
there`s no evidence Ebola`s coming into the U.S. from Mexico. And yet the
conservative website, the Daily Caller, is running the headline, President
Ebola, and republicans are playing it up on the campaign trail.


THOM TILLIS (R-NC), SENATE NOMINEE: Senator Hagan has failed the people by
not securing the border. Ladies and gentlemen, we have an Ebola outbreak,
we have bad actors that can come across the border.

REINCE PRIEBUS, RNC CHAIRMAN: The IRS, Syria, Ebola, the Secret Service.
I mean, what`s going well in regard to this administration?

SEN. RAND PAUL (R), KENTUCKY: Political correctness has caused us to
underplay the threat of Ebola. A wide open porous borders is not only a
danger for national security purposes, it`s also a danger for a worldwide


SHARPTON: Both ISIS and Ebola are real challenges, requiring real
solutions, not fear mongering in the midterm elections.

Joining me now are Richard Wolffe and Karen Finney, thank you both for
being here.



SHARPTON: You know, Richard, it seems like Halloween has come early for
republicans. I mean, what`s your take?

WOLFFE: Hey, you know, Rev, I actually thought, as scary as Halloween is,
this is even more crazy. And I thought, you know, they would be going for
a 2010 playbook at this point, rather than a 2002 playbook.


WOLFFE: That`s what they`ve reached in two years.


WOLFFE: It`s almost the same pacing and the same soundtrack they have on
some of these ads. It is preposterous that some West African traveler
would go through Mexico and take this long trek through the desert and
survive Ebola for long enough to make it through into a populated area, and
rather than, I don`t know, die in the desert. It`s ridiculous. It doesn`t
understand that either the public health piece of it, never mind the
terrorism in part of it on ISIS. So, I guess it will work for some people
who are stuck in 2002, and may what for that base, for the bigger
population, no way.

SHARPTON: But, you know, Karen, you`re laughing.

FINNEY: I know.

SHARPTON: But I think it`s an insult to the intelligence of the voters
they`re trying to appeal to. Today the "New York Times" reports the GOP is
seeking to depict a quote, "Dark and unsafe world." Trying to portray
democrats as leading it. Quote, "A government that is so fundamentally
broken it cannot offer its people the most basic protection from harm."
Republicans believe they have found the sentiment that will tie
Congressional races together with a single national theme. I mean, is this
the mark of a party without any real ideas, Karen? They finally found the
theme and the team is fear mongering.

FINNEY: Well, we know that that comes from the Karl Rove playbook. Right?
You know, they debated and you know, use lots of different issues, but this
is particularly stands out. Because as you point out, I mean, yes, we`re a
month away from the election, and they`re not acknowledging that they`ve
done everything they can over the last six years, to increase the chances
in terms of the fear, to not support government, to break government,
right? Some members of the House Chamber have said that`s why they came
here, because they don`t believe in government. Here`s when I find ironic.
I just want to play this out. So the same Republican Party that lied its
way, America, into a war in Iraq, and then, you know, did not handle that
war very well, is now saying that we should trust them, over democrats? I
mean, they`re trying to play on sort of that classic argument that
republicans are better on National Security than democrats. I don`t think
that`s going to work. And I agree with you, that I think most voters are
smart enough to realize that Africa and Mexico actually are not back-to-
back like that.

SHARPTON: Now, you think? But Richard, the other claim we`re hearing from
the right, from both the media and the politicians on the right, is that
the administration can`t handle Ebola because of Benghazi and the IRS.
Listen to this.


UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: Shouldn`t we trust the government to keep us all safe
from Ebola? With the government`s recent track record not being so hot,
well, we learned we couldn`t trust the IRS after the targeting of
conservative groups? Do we trust that we know all the answers yet about

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: The Benghazi, wars --


UNIDENTIFIED MAN: The IRS. I mean, we have virtually incompetent

REP. RANDY WEBER (R), TEXAS: Whether it`s IRS, Benghazi, you can go right
down the list. And so it doesn`t foment, you know, people -- faith in
people to think that our administration`s on top of things.


WOLFFE: It`s like a bunch of code words. It`s like Obama bingo. If they
say enough words they get a prize. I don`t know who they plan on trusting
when a public health crisis, if not government officials. So you could
take the view, I don`t trust the government on anything, but you need
public health officials. The problem in Liberia, is there is no government
officials, no public health system that could contain a disease like this.
Fortunately, when you look at the recent poll that NBC has just done with
survey monkey, actually, the vast majority of people do trust public health
officials and government officials because there`s nobody else who can do
it. We all have a responsibility about containing a disease and washing
our hands and all of that, but without government, without public health
officials, what`s the answer?

SHARPTON: But Karen, you know, Richard said that they`re playing to the
base. But look at the whole landscape. What are we looking at in these
midterm elections? I mean, what are you projecting here?

FINNEY: Well, look, I think, let`s be fair. I mean, we saw that people --
we did start to see concerns about ISIL or ISIS, whichever you want to use
sometime ago, not long after the beheadings. That certainly frightened
people. But the President, whether you agree with the President`s plan or
not, he`s come forward with a plan, that plan is moving forward. So, I
think in terms of reassuring people, I do think we need to acknowledge,
yes, what`s happening with Ebola is scary, what`s happening, you know,
around ISIS is scary, but let`s keep that in perspective. And let`s also,
as Richard just pointed out, a majority of Americans trust government to
handle Ebola. The President has put forward a plan. That plan is moving
forward. So, point being, in both of these instances, you know, government
has done -- President Obama has done its job. You may disagree. But you
can`t just say, government has just totally fallen apart. Right?
Government has been there to do what it`s there to do and so far, I mean,
certainly with regard to Ebola, it is, you know, it has remained contained.
So I think the key thing in this, though, is, I think the people that this
will appeal to are the people who probably weren`t going to be voting for
democrats anyway because there --

SHARPTON: I`m going to have to hold it there. Thank you Karen. Richard
Wolffe and Karen Finney, thank you both for your time tonight.

WOLFFE: Thank you.

SHARPTON: Still ahead, caught on tape, a New York police officer accused
of punching out a teenager. Over a cigarette! Another officer accused
stealing $1,000 from a man and then pepper spraying him. It`s tonight`s
Justice Files.


SHARPTON: We`re back now with the Justice Files.

Joining us tonight, criminal defense Attorney Eric Guster, and former
prosecutor and host of "Judge Faith," Faith Jenkins. Thank you both for
being here tonight.



SHARPTON: We start tonight here in New York City with two new videos of
New York City police officers. The New York officer appearing to knock out
a teen. To knock him unconscious over what he thought was marijuana.


UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: It`s just a cigarette. Mister, (bleep). Mister, it
was just a cigarette, sir. It was just a cigarette.


SHARPTON: You can`t quite see it but the officer appears to punch him, and
seconds later, his friends notice the teen is unconscious.


UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: He knocked out! Yes, he knocked out! You knocked him
out! You knocked him out! You knocked him out! You knocked him out! You
knocked him out!


SHARPTON: The NYPD says, it`s investigating that case.

Also in New York, after a man allegedly yelled at police for arresting
someone, watch what happens next.


Look. You see this? You see this?


Give me my money, man! Give me my money.


SHARPTON: The unidentified officer appears to have taken more than $1,000
from the man. You can see on the video, something in the officer`s hand.


JOYE: You see this? Look. You see this?


Give me my money, man. Give me my money.


SHARPTON: The officer takes money out of his pocket and then pepper sprays
him. He later said he had the money for a birthday celebration for his
wife moments later. The man`s sister tried to find out the officer`s name.


UNIDENTIFIED OFFICER: My badge number right there.


UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Get his badge number. Get his badge number.

LATEEFAJ JOYE: Say your name. What`s your name?

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Get his badge number. He just stole his money.


LATEEFAJ JOYE: I see it. I see it. I see it. Don`t touch me. I`m not
touching you. Oh, my God.


SHARPTON: As you can see in the video, he pepper sprayed her too. The
NYPD says, it`s also investigating this incident.

Faith, let`s start with you. With this incident of the alleged theft, what
do you see and what should happened to this officer?

JENKINS: Well, I don`t see alleged theft. I see alleged strong-arm
robbery. That`s what I see, that`s a forcible taking of property of
another person by a police officer. Just because he`s a police officer,
does that mean he should not be criminally prosecuted? I think that means
he`s held to an even higher standard which he is. If you want to wear the
badge and you`re going to uphold the law, then you have to abide by the
law. And the reason why these things keep happening, Rev, is because of a
lack of consequences for the police officers involved.


GUSTER: And I totally agree. And I believe it`s a little bit higher than
strong arm robbery, because he had a gun, and he used a weapon, being the
pepper spray. This is why people do not trust a police officers. And
luckily for these two incidents, these people had video. And that is the
one thing that so many people are using in order to hold police officers
accountable. Because just like Judge Faith said, when police officers do
things like this, you know, they must be held accountable. And this man
must be held accountable for this.

SHARPTON: No, I mean, but have you ever seen anything like this on tape?
I mean, we talked about the Ferguson effect earlier, but this is the Staten
Island effect in terms of videoing the thing as it was happening.

JENKINS: Right. And what is so key about these cases is, I`m absolutely
convinced had it not been for videotape, these officers would be completely
exonerated. And when you lived in this communities, I`ve lived in Harlem
for a number of years, and you see things for yourselves. You see things
happening. You hear people in the communities talked about, what happens
on the streets on a day-to-day basis.


JENKINS: They don`t always have videotapes, Rev. And their voices aren`t
heard when they don`t. That`s a big part of the problem.

SHARPTON: Well, and when people like me get involved, it`s like, how could
you believe that? So now with the videotapes, people are saying for
themselves, whether they agree or not with your conclusions or mine, Eric,
that we are not making this stuff up.

GUSTER: No, and this is stuff that you can`t make up. This is a man, who
was on the ground, in the first one, for this police officer knocked him
out, I mean, completely out. And he was completely defenseless. There was
no reason. Whether he was smoking a cigarette, smoking marijuana, had a
pound of cocaine, that should have never happened.

SHARPTON: Now, the police have said, released a statement, saying they had
gotten a call about a man with a gun and these were the people that were on
the scene when they first arrived. This is the first video that we play.

JENKINS: The kid with the marijuana cigarette?

SHARPTON: No, no, the other one when the money was taken.

JENKINS: And so you respond accordingly, right? But you do your
investigation. Why is money involved in this? He takes money. And he
walks away. He doesn`t take a gun. He doesn`t take a weapon. He takes
money. Was that money ever vouchered? Was that money every accounted for?
That is a robbery.

GUSTER: Absolutely. And this reminds me so much of the Philadelphia case
where all those police officers were arrested and investigated for stealing
money. This is a very real problem in so many communities Reverend Al
where a police officers are accused of taking money, taking drugs, and
doing other things. This video shows that some of those claims could be
very valid and very real, because we have it on tape, where this happened.

SHARPTON: Now, Judge Faith, go back to the one you had referred to. The
kid knocked out because he thought he was smoking marijuana.

JENKINS: Well, first of all, in New York, low level marijuana offenses are
now being decriminalized, where police officers are being told because of
the number of arrests, and because of the number of cases going through our
court system, so convoluted right now, don`t even arrest people for low-
level marijuana offenses. So, that`s the instructions given to NYPD right
now. How do we get from that, to knocking out and committing an assault
against a 17-year-old kid? It`s not about a lack of training. Any decent
human being knows not to assault someone else. It`s about rogue officers
doing what they want to do because they don`t have consequences, and they
don`t suffer the consequences for their actions.

SHARPTON: Well, that`s the point, I think. I think that we will see this
as long as there are not consequences. I do not think all police are bad.
Not even most are bad. But as long as police don`t think they have to be
held to the law, we`re going to keep seeing this. Because of Ferguson,
because of Staten Island, with the videotaping, people are videotaping now.
So it brings us closer, but we`re not there until there`s equal protection
under the law. Eric Guster and Judge Faith Jenkins, thank you for your
time tonight. We`ll be right back.


SHARPTON: It`s an elite republican group. The "I`m not a scientist" club.
All of these republicans have used some form of that phrase. To push back
on science questions they didn`t want to answer. And now we have a brand
new member.


UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: If climate change is a problem, and do you believe it
is or not?

SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R), KENTUCKY: I`m not a scientist.

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Do you believe, sir, in global warming?

MCCONNELL: What I have said repeatedly is, I`m not a scientist.

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: That`s a yes or no question? Do you believe in global

MCCONNELL: No, it is not a yes or no question. I`m not a scientist.


SHARPTON: That`s right. Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell is not a
scientist. It`s his brand new line to avoid questions on global warming.
So welcome to the club, senator. Too bad republicans don`t have an actual
scientist. But wait, they do. Republican Congressman Dan Benishek.


REP. DAN BENISHEK (R), MICHIGAN: I`m not sure there`s any evidence to
prove that there`s man-made, you know, catastrophic global warming.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: And you really, really in your heart believe that?

BENISHEK: Well, there`s no significant scientific evidence that --

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: If I could throw some science at you but --

BENISHEK: Well, I`m a scientist. You know, I believe in peer-reviewed
science, you know, but I don`t see any peer-reviewed science that proves
that there is, you know, man-made catastrophic climate change.


SHARPTON: He`s a scientist, and he doesn`t think scientists have proven
man-made climate change? What kind of scientist is he? Congressman, I`m
no scientist, although I do play a fake one on TV. But you don`t even need
to be a scientist to see man-made climate change is real. Ninety seven
percent of climate scientists agree it`s true. And a recent U.N. report
found the same thing, with 95 percent certainty. Did these republicans
think we`d ignore their melting logic on climate change? Nice try, but
here`s my scientific conclusion. We gotcha.



PRES. BARACK OBAMA (D), UNITED STATES: Over these last six years, the
United States has put more people back to work than Japan, Europe, and
every advanced economy combined, which gives us a sense of the kind of
momentum that we could be building.



SHARPTON: President Obama just moments ago, talking about how the
economy`s improved since the Bush recession. The deficit is now $927
billion less than it was back in 2009. We`ve also seen a net gain of 6.8
million jobs in the Obama presidency. And in the stock market, the Dow
Jones average has gone up 110 percent since President Obama`s inauguration.
It`s an incredible record, but republicans don`t want to talk about it. Or
about inequality in this country. The pay game from the CEO to unskilled
worker is an astounding 350 to one. This must change. And that`s what
this election is all about.

Thanks for watching. I`m Al Sharpton. "HARDBALL" starts right now.


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