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All In With Chris Hayes, Tuesday, October 21st, 2014

Read the transcript from the Tuesday show

October 21, 2014

Guest: Jess Mcintosh, Aia Cooper, Michael Jones, Ruth Marcus, Laura
McCrystal, Brenda Carter, Jelani Cobb


CHRIS HAYES, MSNBC HOST: Tonight in ALL IN: Don`t touch my girlfriend.


HAYES: The Drudge Report tries to implicate the President in a sex

of a brother just embarrassing me for no reason.

HAYES: And the couple at the center of it all joins me live tonight.

OBAMA: You give me a kiss to give him something to talk about.

HAYES: Then as the Kentucky Senate race reaches statistical dead heat,
Mitch McConnell wears a sweater vest to coal country.

Plus Scott Brown gets border happy.

SCOTT BROWN, (R-NH) SENATORIAL CANDIDATE: We have a border so porous
anyone can walk across it.

HAYES: Then new data showing just who is financing this year`s senate
candidates and for the first time since the notorious fan gate.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have been told that Governor Scott will not be
participating in this debate.

HAYES: Florida Governor Rick Scott and Challenger Charlie Chris face off
in a debate no fans allowed.

All In starts right now.

with being comfortable?


HAYES: Good evening from New York. I`m Chris Hayes. We have some
breaking news just a few moments ago. We have just learned that Ben
Bradlee, the legendary former editor of the Washington Post has died. In
his 26 years of the papers home he presided over a golden age of
journalism. He was 93. We`ll have more on this breaking news ahead.

But first, with two weeks to Election Day and the Senate hanging in the
balance, candidates in some of the country`s marquee races are entering the
homestretch in statistically dead heat. In Kentucky, where Democrat
Allison Lundergan Grimes had been written off by commentators, and The
Democratic Senatorial Committee which pulled it`s ad last week, she`s is
being buoyed by a new poll out of yesterday that has her just one point
behind opponent Mitch McConnell well within the margin of error.

Grimes got another boast in the campaign trail today from Bill Clinton who
joined her on stage at two rallies. Meanwhile, her opponent Mitch
McConnell is on a three-day tour of Eastern Kentucky`s coal country, seen
here in the background rocking a very sweet sweeter vest.

In Colorado, another Clinton hit the campaign trail with incumbent Senator
Mark Udall today, for Democrats defending Udall against his Republican
challenger Congressman Corry Gardner is make or break if they hope to hold
on the Senate.


HILLARY CLINTON, FORMER SECRETARY OF STATE: So dig deep, get out, knock on
every door, talk to every person. Tell them yes, to vote. Tell them to
vote for themselves by voting for Mark Udall.


HAYES: A brand new poll from left--leaning firm Public Policy Polling has
Gardner up three points still within the margin error, while the latest
campaign finance reports show him with three times more cash on hand than
Udall. Voting started there yesterday in a state Democrats managed to turn
blue in the last two presidential elections thanks to an impressive field

In North Carolina senate race now on track to be the more expensive ever
with overall spending approaching $100 million, you heard that correctly,
$100 million for one race and $2 of every $3 in T.V. ads spending coming
from the outside groups, the latest PPP poll has Democrat Kay Hagan up
three points over her opponent Thom Tillis, that`s just inside the margin
of error. We`re sensing a theme here.

Tonight`s debate, one of the three taking place around the country this
evening, well a slightly different format than we`re used to seeing. Hagan
is declining participate, her campaign thing, she never agreed to forced
debate. Thom Tillis showed up anyway will be alone stage presumably
debating himself just like Charlie Chris last week flying solo for a full
four minutes while Rick Scott protested his use of legal fun.

And speaking of Florida gubernatorial debate there`s another one tonight.
It will officially be fan free according to the organizers.

And in New Hampshire, another debate getting underway at this very hour
between Democratic Senator Jeanne Shaheen and her Republican opponent Scott
Brown hosted by NBC`s Chuck Todd.

Shaheen is clinging to a narrow lead over Brown who`s been beating the
drums over our "porous" border and the risk of Ebola and ISIS possibly both
them together infiltrating the U.S, more on that later in the show.

In Iowa, Democratic Bruce Braley and Republican Joni Ernst are neck and
neck in the race to succeed retiring Democratic Senator Tom Harkin, another
seat the Democrats more or less have to hold on to if they want to keep the
Senate, in a close race that could come down to how women vote. Braley
campaign today would not so secret weapon first lady Michelle Obama and
this time unlike the last time she got his name right.


MICHELLE OBAMA, U.S. FIRST LADY: Thrilled to be here today to support the
next Senator from Iowa, our friend Bruce Braley. It`s give it up for

Now, let me say that one more time, Bruce Braley.


HAYES: Joining now is Jess Mcintosh communication director from Emily`s

Did someone get fired for the "Bruce Bailey" screw up the last time because
it wasn`t just Michelle Obama, it was also Bill Clinton. I was watching
both those tape saying, "Who is -- come on? Get it together."

JESS MCINTOSH, EMILY`S LIST: Maybe it was a teleconference (ph) thing,
Bailey is a pretty common name.

HAYES: I know from (inaudible) -- OK. So here`s the thing you`ve been
saying Jess and you had a real thing on the polls of this. Obviously
Emily`s List is heavily involved. You guys have a particular outcome you
want to see...


HAYES: ... but you have been working on this. This race seems to me, to
be tightening in every way. I mean every race, even New Hampshire...


HAYES: ... it seems like Jeanne Shaheen should be winning fairly heavily,
that`s tightening. Kentucky which I just keep being told like, "Oh,
everyone`s written it off" but then there`s two polls since everyone
written it off in which...


HAYES: ... Alison Lundergan Grimes is neck and neck. It just seems like
this race is actually really, really close across the board.

MCINTOSH: This race has been really, really close, the Kentucky Senate
race for a long time. The left-wing (ph) narrative just writing it off is
honestly one of the dumbest and most data free things that I have seen
happen since I started working in campaigns. She has kept him under 50
percent and more or less within the margin of error for like 24 of the last
public polls. Her own pollster has her up two.

And this is the guy who called it Reid race when everybody wrote him off in
2010. So this race has been alive, it is alive, I guess I`m happy people
are catching up to that now. We still have two weeks to go but, no it`s
really, really close all across the country.

There is s plausible scenario where -- Democratic women especially have a
great night, they hang on to key incumbent seats, they pick up a few House
seats, and maybe get a couple gubernatorial. We might flip Kentucky or
Georgia -- there`s a chance that we have a great night.

HAYES: So you`re saying there`s a change...

MCINTOSH: There`s an equally plausible scenario that we lose everything.

HAYES: OK that yes, of course, and you just painted the optimistic
scenario that you -- the two southern races I think are particularly
interesting. There`s Michelle Nunn in Georgia which we talked about last
night who has had a very good week in a kind of new cycle because of David
Perdue`s deposition which is sort of boasting...


HAYES: ... outsourcing his whole life. Latest poll has her up. Kay Hagan
on the other hand who has been ahead steadily, that race seems to be
tightening as Tillis gets closer.

MCINTOSH: Yeah, I mean it seems like they are all moving closer together.
And remember, what being in the margin of error means. If you go from
being up one to being down one, is it statically exactly the same as going
from down to being up one.

HAYES: Right.

MCINTOSH: So we -- I mean we just don`t know what`s going to happen on
election day, which is why it is so important to spend the next few weeks,
thinking about your voting plan, how are you going to get to the polls, how
are you wrangle everything else in you life along with voting, talking to
friends about voting, posting on your social networks about voting.

I mean we need to get as many people in the polls as possible which is one
of the great things about being a Democrat is that we want to expand the
electorate. So, we just want everyone to talk about voting to everyone
that they can for the next 14 days.

HAYES: So...

MCINTOSH: The issues are on our sides and the more we spend talking about
the election and what candidates are standing for, the better Democratic
candidates are going to do. This is just a very, very tough map for us in
the midterm which is usually favors Republicans.

HAYES: Well, in the last two or three days, I feel like there is this
little mini bubble that happens sometimes in political commentary, people
talking about the President`s approval rating among women...


HAYES: ... and some the erosion that`s happened which I think is born out
by a variety of polls, there`s been erosion in a lot of places. What do
you think -- what role do you see that playing, do you think the kind of
extrapolation that`s come from a lot of commentators about the President is
in trouble with women, Democrats are in trouble with women. A year ago
that`s part of what their challenge is in this midterm. Do you think that
confuse (ph)?

MCINTOSH: I mean -- no, because we`re seeing really historic gender gaps
in most of these very tight races. Most of these races are not tight when
it comes to women. In some cases, we have seen 20 and 30 point gender
gaps. That`s never happened before.

So the idea that women are abandoning Democrats for any reason, local or
national just isn`t borne out by date. That said, I think there is a
tendency among political commentator to nationalize everything because
that`s what they`re most comfortable taking...

HAYES: Right.

MCINTOSH: ...about. But when we poll women in these key states, they
care, it`s not nearly as sexy but they care about minimum wage, ending
gender discrimination in pay, and access to health care consistently. Over
and over again those are the issues that come up. And so that`s what
candidates are focused on...

HAYES: Yeah.

MCINTOSH: ... on the trail. It`s not about the President or any national
narrative for that matter, it`s about those issues.

HAYES: Jess Mcintosh of Emily`s List, thank you, always a pleasure.


HAYES: All right, with midterm elections heading into the final stretch,
any Democratic slip off, any hint of Democratic scandal can tip things in
favor of Republicans. And earlier today with this headline, at first
glance, its look like Drudge Report had placed the President at the center
of a sex scandal. It read, Man warns President not to touch girlfriend.

But when you click on the link, it took you to a video of the President
voting early in his polling place in Chicago, shortly after the President
headed to his voting booth an absolutely incredible scene unfolded. The
boy friend of the woman voting next to him walked passed the President and
jokingly said, "Don`t touch my girlfriend", the following exchange is
pretty incredible.


MIKE JONES, HAD EXCHANGE WITH PRES. OBAMA: Mr. President, don`t touch my
girlfriend now.


OBAMA: You know, I really wasn`t planning on it.

COOPER: I am sorry, please excuse him.

OBAMA: Now, there`s an example of a brother just embarrassing you for no

COOPER: Just embarrassing.

OBAMA: Just for no reason whatsoever.

COOPER: I know he was going to say something smart, but I didn`t know what
he was going to say.

OBAMA: And now you`ll be going back home and talking to your friends
about, I cannot believe...

What`s his name?


OBAMA: I can`t believe Mike, he is such a fool.

COOPER: He really is.

OBAMA: I was just mortified.

JONES: But she`s having a conversation with the President.

OBAMA: But fortunately, the President was nice about it.

COOPER: I`m freaking out right now.

OBAMA: So, it was all right.

COOPER: Thank you so much.

OBAMA: It`s all right. Mike seems like a decent guy. He`s a decent guy.

COOPER: This is not happening. This really isn`t.

OBAMA: You give me a kiss to give him something to talk about. Now he`s
really jealous.


HAYES: That`s easily the 15th time I`ve watched that, I could talk about
the video all day long. In fact as my staff will tell you I have.

And joining me now are the couple at the center of it all, Aia Cooper and
Michael Jones. All right, I love this video so much.

Mike can I start with you, what possessed you...

JONES: Sure.

HAYES: What possessed you in that moment to make that joke?

JONES: It was just so quiet in the room and we walked in and everybody`s
eyes were glued to the President as mine were too. It was a once of a
lifetime type of thing and as I was walked to my booth, I saw her there
frantically trying not to panic and I had to say something, I had to
something that would make, just ease the situation, now you heard cameras
going off, so I had to go in and say something that`s all.

HAYES: Look, can I just say this, I completely understand that because
I`ve been at a few events with the President and I have that same urge, in
fact I`ve said a few things which I`ve been reported to my wife which she`s
like, that`s right on the border of what you can say that to the President.
So I actually was like texting her and I thought, well that`s if you can
get away with that, what was your thoughts?

COOPER: Why? Why? Why would you do this and I was just nervous, super
nervous and I couldn`t believe that he said that and another part of me was
just like, "Shut up, they`re going to tackle you, shut up." So, just a
lot, bold nerves (ph), bold nerves (ph).

HAYES: There was something kind of amazingly gracious in the way the
President then played that out and kind of like took your nervousness away
from you to basically reassure that it was OK and the whole thing wasn`t
the mortifying nightmare that you possibly thought it was for a second?

COOPER: Right, exactly, exactly.

HAYES: So, have you been, now been like telling all your friends exactly
the conversation that the President mapped out for you in that interaction?

JONES: Yes, friends and family pretty much reached out, everyone saw it on
the local news and it`s just been pretty interesting the last few days. I
mean it was just an experience I wanted to give her. I knew she was, you
know, just nervous going up there in the booth next to him and she probably
wasn`t even paying attention to her ballot.

But I mean, it wasn`t anything that the President did, I want to make that
clear, it was just something that I always do to her and she knows very
well it`s my personality, I am very spontaneous and I would just put her
out in the front seat of anyone in order to make her smile and laugh just
like she did. So...

HAYES: And did you, were you actually able to focus on voting on the

COOPER: I was trying, I was trying really hard. I actually did, I mean I
did see who I wanted to go for and I did vote for that person but after he
said that I was just like, "Oh my god, please just, secret service don`t
take him out, just don`t please don`t." And then standing next to the
President and he stood up here actually having a conversation I`m like,
"This is surreal, this cannot be happening right now". So, it was just a
great experience, it really was.

HAYES: I will say -- in Mike`s defense as he noted, you then did have a
conversation with the President. That would not have happened had he not
made the joke? All right final question you guys, there`s been some news
reports that say you`re engaged, is that true or not?

JONES: No, not yet.

HAYES: OK, OK, I didn`t mean to put you on the front seat but I just had
to ask.

JONES: It`s all right, not a problem.

HAYES: Aia Cooper and Michael Jones, thank you very much.

JONES: Thanks for having us.

COOPER: Thank you.

HAYES: All right, breaking news report tonight, as I mentioned at the top,
Ben Bradlee the former Editor of the Washington Post who led the paper`s
Watergate coverage, published the Pentagon papers has died, he was 93, more
on that ahead.


HAYES: For a month, a man suspected of staging brazen attack of
Pennsylvania state troopers that left one dead and one injured has managed
to elude cops, apparently surviving in the woods around the Poconos in
Pennsylvania. And then yesterday, someone saw him, the latest ahead.


HAYES: Just moments ago we learned that Ben Bradlee has died. A man who
played a huge role not only in building a major news paper and then
bringing down a corrupt U.S. president, but a man who may have changed the
face of modern journalism forever. Ben Bradlee was Executive Editor of the
Washington Post leading its newsroom for 26 years and steady hand most
notably through Watergate. And equally legendary reporters Bob Woodruff
and Carl Bernstein unraveled the massive cover up on President Richard
Nixon following what was to be known as a third-rate burglary.

Bradlee in Washington Post published, the late Katherine Graham also
provided over story based on the pentagon paper published by the New York
Times offering an unprecedented look into the Vietnam War during Bradlee`s
tenure as detailed by his beloved Washington post. That paper won 17
Pulitzer Prizes.

Jason Robards played Bradlee in "All the President`s Men."


reporting, Lyndon Johnson`s staff guy gave me the word. They`re looking
for success (inaudible). I wrote it in a day it appeared, Johnson held a
press conference in the point as Hoover, head of the FBI for life. When he
was done, turned to his top guy and the President said call Ben Bradlee and
tell him (inaudible) and I went wrong.


HAYES: And joining me right now, now by phone is Washington Post Columnist
Ruth Marcus and Ruth I don`t know, one of the three or four most important
figures in American journalism in last 50 years. I think that`s a fair
thing to say about him.

RUTH MARCUS, WASHINGTON POST COLUMNIST: A totally fair thing to say and to
people like me who were hired by Ben Bradlee probably the most important
figure in American Journalism.

HAYES: He was -- my experience always with folks to the Post that he was a
pretty beloved figure. He really -- he was this legendary figure inside
the Post people felt strong feelings about him. People would trade Ben
Bradlee stories. I mean, he was a remarkably good manager as far as I can
tell from all the people that I knew in Post, in his years there -- aside
from being a great newspaper man.

MARCUS: Well, the thing about Ben -- and I did not know Ben before. He
was a legend. I only knew him in the post Watergate, post to "All the
President`s men and what Ben role.

But there was something compelling about him so that you just wanted to
please him and you just wanted to get his attention and get his approval.
And when he came you just felt grate about yourself. And if he said
something a little bit critical -- which was not very often. You just
wanted to kind of shrivel up.

But mostly he managed by bestowing his charm on you.

HAYES: And he was someone who took this paper. I think -- if I`m
recalling quadrupled in circulation under his helm, it defined an era of
journalism through Watergate. And it going to defined a role for the press
for an entire era.

I mean if you go back and you`ll look at trust in institutions in 1970s.
The press is up there at the top, above all others and then will sink in
the decades to follow. But he was there crafting this coverage and
overseeing this coverage at a time when arguably newspapers and American
journalism mattered more and was trusted more than it is ever been before

MARCUS: Well, and especially since -- I mean imagine a world in which the
-- I was a college student in the post Watergate Era. In fact, the first
time I ever thought then was he came to visit my college newspaper The
Daily News. And my most vivid recollection was him smearing like a seller
as he was want (ph) to do of being incredibly charming and as he always

But, think about the generation/generations of people like me who were
inspired by his experience, and post experience, Woodward and Bernstein
into journalism as a noble calling and contrast that with where we are now
in terms of the (inaudible) or not in which the press is held.

And I think that golden age that you talked about, Ben is in large part of
-- a significant part, responsible for that. I mean, if it wasn`t for --
if it weren`t for Woodward and Bernstein we wouldn`t Watergate but it
wasn`t for Ben and his willingness to back them and I think they`d be the
first to say this. We wouldn`t have Woodward and Bernstein.

HAYES: Yeah. And that`s -- and I think is the key thing about the legacy
of Ben Bradlee and what he meant both to the paper and American journalism
was he stood up to White House pressure numerous times. Put his capital
behind his reporters. It wouldn`t been easy (inaudible) and we`ve seen,
you know, examples all in the subsequent years for the President in the
United States calls in the publisher of a newspaper and says, "Don`t run
this" and sometimes they wait on it and sometime they don`t run it and
sometimes they do.

But you can`t estimate the kind of fortitude it takes to stare down the
President of the United States and say, "No, sir we`re running this."

MARCUS: Absolutely, and I think he make a really point about publisher
because he really can`t talk about Ben and the role of the Post without
also talking about Katherine Graham because Mrs. Graham`s willingness to
stand up to the President and many of her friends and to partner with Ben
and stick with him and trust his instinct and trust his ability to manage
his reporters was also an essential element, and that friendship.

I`m really tempted tonight to go and look through both of their magnificent
autobiographies because they`re bookend say together they -- I think
created a better newspaper than they would have been able to do separately.

HAYES: Washington Post Columnist Ruth Marcus hired by Ben Bradlee just
passed away tonight.

Ben Bradlee, legendary Former Executive of the Washington Post has died as
we just reported at the age of 93.

We`ll be right back.


HAYES: As I speak to you, former Massachusetts Senator, Republican Scott
Brown is debating Democratic New Hampshire Senator Jeanne Shaheen and it`s
not some Massachusetts, New Hampshire battle. It`s with hopes of taking
Shaheen`s job in two weeks.

One thing we can bank on is that Brown running to be Senator of New
Hampshire this time. A state which is more than 200 miles in the U.S.
Southern border is going to talk about that border because he think he has
found an issue that is really working for him.


BROWN: Americans go through security before they get on a plane, enter a
government building, or attend a ball game. The folks who come here
illegally, they just walk across the border -- that`s wrong.

Want to know why there`s lawlessness on our border? Ask Senator Shaheen.
She voted against border security twice and for amnesty.

Radical Islamic terrorists are threatening to cause the collapse of our
country. President Obama and Senator Shaheen seemed confused about the
nature of the threat. Not me.

That we have U.S. citizens fighting for ISIS, potentially upwards of 300,
who want to come home, and actually, they`re not coming home, Neil, to buy
houses with white picket fences. They`re coming home to a change their way
of live, hurt or kill us.


HAYES: Scott Brown`s emphasis on threat and fear and the border is not
alone. As the New York Times points out much of the harsh talk in
immigration today may have to do with simple math.

National Latinos make up 11 percent of eligible voters but in the eight
states with close senate races fewer than 5 percent of eligible voters are
Latino according to a new Pew Research report.

Only one of the big closely contested senator races is in a state that has
significant Latino population, that`s Colorado.

So the strategy that Brown and other Republicans is pursuing actually makes
sense for the party given the make up for the midterm electorate, where
states are being contested and who`s going to turn out to vote. But here`s
the thing. We had seen this movie before.

Just like Mitt Romney in 2012, beating up Rick Perry over immigration, the
primaries, remember that? And Rick Perry said you don`t have a heart,
defending Texas`s decision to give in-state tuition to undocumented
students? And Mitt Romney beat him up for it.

We`ll he paid for that later in the general election. You see the tactical
bet the Republicans are making in 2014 might have terrible consequences
strategically in 2016.

Because everyone, everyone, all the operatives in the Republican Party side
and the Democratic Party side in between understands Republicans cannot win
the presidency with the margins that Mitt Romney got among Latinos. And,
yet, here they are, again, just two years later, in the process of
repeating just that.

Ten schools shut down in Pennsylvania today because of a man hunt, the
details next.


HAYES: The Pocono Mountain School District ordered in rural north eastern
Pennsylvania ordered all of its ten schools closed today where 9,000
students and a thousand teachers and staff stayed home while police went
door-to-door in the area searching for an alleged killer in Eric Frein who
have reportedly been sighted twice in the area in just the last few days.

The schools will be open tomorrow, but the search for Frein continues. It
all started on September 12th, at a state trooper barracks in Blooming
Grove, Pennsylvania.

At 10:15 p.m., during a shift change, Corporal Brian Dickson is leaving the
building, walking to his car after a shift when suddenly he dropped to the
ground dead.

A second officer heard a gunshot and called for help when she heard more
shots and another state trooper starting his shift dropped to the ground
outside the barracks, he was able to crawl into the lobby wounded.

At the time, the officers had no idea who was shooting at them or where the
fire was coming from. The ambush, which left one state trooper dead and
another injured, set off one of the largest man hunts in Pennsylvania


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Folks who camp in the Poconos will not miss the heavy
police presence there. We`re being told that officers from three different
states are working on the manhunt, catching the killer, hopefully, of
Corporal Byron Dickson.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: New York, New Jersey and Pennsylvania agencies are
searching for the gunman at this hour.


HAYES: Police immediately blocked roads, launched helicopters, went door-
to-door in the area and flooded the Pocono Mountains by the hundreds.
Three days in the manhunt, they found a clue.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Novak was back here with his job Monday when he
stumbled upon a critical clue.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You can actually see the tracks. A green SUV dipped
in a pond, belonging to Frein and filled with evidence.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There was a gun case. There was no weapon in there and
then I knew that this has to be that --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It has to be the shooter`s car.


HAYES: The car belonged to locals, Deborah Frein and her husband, Retired
Army Major Michael Frein and inside, police camouflage, face paint, empty
rifle cases, cartridge casings and ID for the couple`s son, Eric Frein.
The 31-year-old became police`s number one suspect, born and raised in
Canadensis, Pennsylvania.

He knew the surrounding mountains well. He attended Pocono High where he
was on the rifle team. Later in life, he seems to become heavily involved
in war re-enactment and has always been a good shot as his father said
honesty, he, quote, "doesn`t miss."

For going on six weeks, Frein has eluded police and terrified residents in
the area around the Poconos. There have been sightings and some clues as
to where Frein has been.

Police say they found camp sites, an empty pack of Serbian cigarettes and
ammo. The sightings over the last couple of days have changed the search
and at this hour, just two hours away, Eric Frein, an alleged murderer is
still thought to be hiding in those same woods.

Joining me now is Laura McCrystal, a reporter for "The Philadelphia
Inquirer" who has been covering the search for Eric Frein. Laura, what do
police think he -- how has he been able to elude them for six weeks?

Frein spent years planning both his attack and his retreat. He knew these
woods well. These are the woods near his own home. He spent time there,
he researched, survival skills.

They described him as a self-styled survivalist who researched how to
survive in the woods and, you know, police say he has stashed supplies
there. These woods are dense. There are caves and empty buildings and
plenty of places where he could be hiding.

HAYES: My understanding is that one of the items recovered from searches
executive with a hard drive where police say they found evidence of a very
long period in which this entire ambush, shooting and escape were planned,
are there indications as to what the motive was?

MCCRYSTAL: Police have said that they do not know his motive and they`re
not going to speck late about that. They said that he seemed to believe
that he did not get along with the police and may have wanted to harm the
police in some way. This is what the police are telling us.

HAYES: How is the mood in the Poconos? I mean, it is a relatively -- it`s
a pretty extreme measure to close schools for 9,000 kids, a thousand
teachers and staff, 10 schools and an entire area. What is the mood in the
Poconos right now?

MCCRYSTAL: Well, I think that, at first, people were quite shocked and
everything shut down. As time went on and we`re going on nearly 6 weeks of
this manhunt now, people have grown used to the police presence, it seems.
And people I`ve talked to have cautiously moved on with their daily

Yet then, again, suddenly today, schools were closed. There a constant
reminder that this is going on. Police are searching yards and knocking on
doors. And, you know, the area seems on edge and people are frustrated,
yes also very supportive of the police. And there are lots of signs and
ribbons in the area thanking police and donated food and so on.

HAYES: Laura, thank you very much.

All right, how did Charlie Crist fair without his fan? Would Rick Scott
show up from the very beginning this time? We find out tonight as the
Florida debated just a little over an hour ago. Report ahead.


HAYES: One of the most bizarre moments in the 2014 elections, the
Democratic candidate for Florida governor, Charlie Crist, standing alone
last week at the beginning of a scheduled debate with incumbent Governor
Rick Scott.

Crist had asked for a fan under his podium and the Scott campaign said that
wasn`t in the rules.


ANNOUNCER: Ladies and gentlemen, I`m being told that Governor Scott will
not join us for this debate.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My understanding is that Governor Scott will be coming
out? Ladies and gentlemen, that has to be the most unique beginning to any

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t think we`ll forget.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Not only in Florida, but I think anywhere in the

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why did you insist on bringing a fan here when you
campaign knew this would be a contentious issue?

with being comfortable? I don`t think there is.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Governor Scott, why the delay coming out over a fan?

GOVERNOR RICK SCOTT: I waited until we figured out if he was going to show
up. He said he wasn`t going to come to the debate. So why come out until
he`s ready.


HAYES: Tonight, they faced each other again for the final debate before
the election. This time, fans were explicitly banned. The only hint came
right out at the beginning.


JAKE TAPPER, CNN MODERATOR: Everybody is comfortable here?

SCOTT: Thank you, yes.


HAYES: The debate was conducted without the media or public access and the
recurrent and bipartisan theme of the night was, who is worse?


SCOTT: Charlie grew up with plenty of money. He`s never had to worry
about money. He`s never had to worry about being laid off.

CRIST: You don`t know me and you can`t tell my story. And I`m not going
to tell yours. But I know you`re worth about a hundred or two hundred
million dollars today. God bless you for that wealth today, Rick. But the
way you got it was pretty unsavory.

SCOTT: Charlie, you`re a divider. You`re a mudslinger. You`re a divider.

CRIST: Did the attorney general ask you to delay the execution so she
could go forward with her political fundraising?

SCOTT: She asked me to delay it because it didn`t work on the dates that
she thought it was going to be on.

CRIST: Did you know it was for a political fundraiser?

SCOTT: She apologized. What would you like me to do? She apologized,

CRIST: He doesn`t answer questions. Pleads the fifth.

SCOTT: Hear`s Charlie`s plan, commit a heinous crime, as soon as you walk
out of jail, you get to vote, as soon as you walk out. You have
intentional permanent disfigurement of a child, as soon as you walk out of
jail, you get to vote.

CRIST: That is fundamentally unfair. I said non-violent criminals and
you`re lying again.

SCOTT: That`s not true.


HAYES: Have you ever seen a less-appealing political figure than Rick
Scott? I mean, every time I see him. I`m sorry. Shaking that off.

Still ahead, the striking difference between those who represent this
country and those they represent.


HAYES: If you`re watching this, it`s probably safe to assume, you have
probably not given any money to Sarah Palin`s political action committee.
But if I`m wrong and you did, well then, you may have been taken for a

According to the Center for Responsive Politics, a non-partisan, non-
profit, research group that tracks money in politics, in the third quarter,
SarahPAC has given just a little more than 3 percent of the $1.4 million is
available to Republican candidates.

So just what have they been spending money on? A wide variety of
consultants including one on coalitions, travel expenses including lodging,
an SUV rental and more than 10,000 have been spent on Sarah Palin`s own
books to hand out to donors.

So maybe you didn`t get taken for a ride after all if you got a book out of
it. Now, when it comes to money and politics, we are about to enter our
third election since the Supreme Court`s Citizens United decision struck
down limits on independent political spending and helped bring a huge wave
of outside money into the political process.

Now, much of that money goes through super-PACs, which spent more than $600
million in the 2012 election cycle. Today, the "New York Times" gave us a
window into how that plays out in real terms.

Two of the biggest super PACs, this cycle, are the Senate majority PAC,
which raised $47 million for Senate Democrats through September and
American Crossroads, which has raised about $25 million for Republicans
this election cycle.

About half of the money raised by the Senate Majority PAC came from just 16
people easily controlled and about half the money raised by American
Crossroads came from just 11 donors. Basically, a couple dozen
fantastically rich people are funding a pretty sizable chunk of the

And keep in mind, that`s just the part of the iceberg we can see. There
are also a ton of big-spending groups that provide their political donors
with anonymity. Also, thanks to Citizen`s United and subsequent government
Supreme Court decision.

So we have no idea who that money is coming from. Now, this funding
structure that we`re experimenting with in the last three cycles, this
funding structure is grafted atop a mechanism of representative democracy
that is already producing a massive gap between the people who are doing
the electing, that would be the voters, and the people who are getting
elected. That would be the politicians.

A report this month from the Women`s Donor Network runs the numbers. What
do the American people look like and what do their elective representatives
look like? There were some big differences. Sort of like right men who
make up 31 percent of the total population.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Seventy one percent of the elected officials are men,
90 percent are white, and 65 percent are white men.


HAYES: You get that? Even the white men make only 31 percent of the
population. They hold 65 percent of elected offices from the county level
up to the federal level. Meanwhile, men of color are 19 percent of the
population. They hold just 7 percent of elected offices.

It`s even worse for women of color who make up 19 percent of the
population. I would also note black women turnout for elections, greater
than any other group, women of color hold only 4 percent of elected
offices. When we come back, I`ll talk to Joanni Cubb, one of the
architects of the study. Brenda Carter, about what else the study found
and why is it that the electorate looks so different from the people it


HAYES: Joining me now is Reflective Democracy Campaign Director Brenda
Carter, co-author of the study on the difference between elected officials
and the electorate, and "New Yorker" contributor, Jelani Cobb, wrote a
piece for that magazine looking at why that difference is so stark.

So let`s start a little bit with methodology. I think what`s great about
the report is you dig deep through the whole sort of levels of government.
We all know what the U.S. Senate looks like. We know the U.S. Senate
doesn`t look like the American census. How granular did you get?

way down to the county level, nationwide. As you said, there`s often a
theory that we know Congress is really skewed, but we know once we get down
farther, it`s a lot more diverse and gender-balanced that turned out not to
be the case.

So we catalogued 42,000 elected office holders from the county level to the
federal level, all across the country by race and gender and, as you said,
the numbers were quite stark.

HAYES: And they were stark even after local level where you might expect
that you would find more diversity, right?

CARTER: Exactly. And in fact, in some respects, they`re even starker at
the local level. People of color actually are less-represented at the
county and statewide level than they are in Congress.

For women, it`s actually slightly better, although it`s hard for it to be
worse. I think some of us hold out hope that there are some big pool of
women and people in color and lower level political office if they could
just make their way up, would sort of diversify higher-level political

HAYES: But even the form system is kind of broken the use of - Jelani, you
made a point, I mean, I think we can kind of separate women and people of
color because there`s different issues, right? There`s a different
numerical mechanism in place.

But you make a point in the piece about one of the obstacles at the local
level for candidates of color is at-large districts and I remember, if I`m
not mistaken, the Shelby County case, the one that came before the Supreme
Court, was in Shelby county. If you`re if you`re an at-large district --
well, explain why that presents a threat.

JELANI COBB, CONTRIBUTOR, "THE NEW YORKER": Well, Chris, thank you for
having me, as well. One of the things that you see with these at-large
districts is that if you have a minority population in a particular county,
and you have these at-large seats, that is to say elections that are not
divided in particular districts.

You know, that minority population will vary rarely be able to outweigh the
majority population, which is very frequently white. So you wind up with
very skewed kinds of numbers and then you see the opposite mechanism
happening on the congressional level where there are majority districts and
all the other districts have become whiter and whiter.

The average GOP district is about 75 percent white, now. And so that, of
course, if you`re looking at 700,000 people as opposed to maybe 350,000
people of color in two different districts, it has a same kind of effect.

HAYES: Right, of course. But there`s a tension there, which is I think is
part of what`s fascinating when you`re talking about race ethnicity in
terms of diversity, which is that there`s a tension between creating what
comes out of the voting rights acts, which is majority minority district.

So that people can elect representatives who come from their at the time
ethnic or racial community, right? And then the natural, flip side of that
is that you take those voters out of the other districts, which means you
create an electorate, which means other people are being elected don`t have
any Latino voters. And you kind of see that in the politics -- Brenda?

CARTER: Right. I think that`s correct. I think there are another number
of other factors to look at in the system, as well, which we would
emphasize in our project, which is in addition to composition of districts,
which is for us to focus on.

There are systems of candidate recruitment and promotion that are sort of
archaic from another era that are controlled by gatekeepers, political
parties, donors and other political actors who, you know, a sort of
shorthand way of putting it is pick the low-hanging fruit. Pick the people
from among your networks.

HAYES: Right. So let me just sort of show people how stark this is, just
to remind people what we`re looking at. This is white men. This is just
the basic top-findings here. White men are 31 percent of the population.
They are 65 percent of elected offices and that`s down to the county level.

That`s 42,000 elected offices across the country. That`s county-elected so
and so -- state legislatures, state senators. The question is why is that?
We talked about the way districts are carved. You`re talking about this
candidate recruitment thing.

How much of a role does that play when you`re talking about women,
particularly because women shouldn`t face the same statistical hurdle,
right? African-Americans are 12 percent of the population, in some cases,
they could be even less.

It`s understandable that they would not -- you know, that they will be less
representative than white people. This`s fewer of them. There is no
reason, statistically, there should be fewer women elected to office than

CARTER: Right. And I think in this way it does operate very similarly
actually in terms of the gatekeeper network in the way that candidate
recruitment and promotion happens for women and for people of color, which
is that these networks are -- they`re dominated by organizations that tend
to be dominated by women and tend to be dominated by whites.

That`s not always true, but that tends to be the case. So when they`re
looking for candidates, it`s sort of easier to grab people from within
their networks. People like them. People they know. It doesn`t even,
necessarily, need to be intentional.

HAYES: Right. So someone in the party says we`ve got an opening coming
up. Who can we get to run? I know Jim and he`s got this very successful
business. I know Jim because we`ve got a friend in common and I`m a white
guy and he`s a white guy, so Jim should run.

CARTER: Right. It`s sort of like any system. It`s really set up to
protect the people already in it.

HAYES: So you made this great point. I think that we assume, right, all
of these things filled about how we are headed towards a majority, non-
white nation. We assume that this is going to changes. It`s just going to
be a matter of time it changes.

And you sort of float the idea of what if we all end up like Ferguson is.
Ferguson`s demographic change, but its city council never did.

COBB: It was easy to kind of point the finger at Ferguson and say, you
know, this is some sort of bizarre political anomaly. And then one of the
things I think the study does really well is point out the fact that
Ferguson, the political structure, does not look like the community it

But it looks a lot like American politics at large. You can easily see a
situation where we have a majority minority society, but still have the
kind of staggered

HAYES: And the thing I`ve learned from Ferguson, you know, something I
knew already, but saw up close viscerally. It produces resentment. It
produces alienation. It produces frustration. And the thought that we
could be headed towards a nation in which the racial majority of the nation
changes as dramatically as we think it`s going to change.

And when you look at the U.S. Senate, it looks like the U.S. is that 20
years ago. That`s going to produce a profound history for democracy.

CARTER: I think that`s exactly right. Over hundreds of years, when the
feel elected to represent us are too removed from the everyday results, it
doesn`t want work out.

HAYES: Brenda Carter and Jelani Cobb, thank you. That is ALL IN for this
evening. The "RACHEL MADDOW SHOW" starts right now. Good evening, Rachel.


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