'Up with Steve Kornacki' for Saturday, October 25th, 2014

Date: October 25, 2014

Guest: Peter Shearer, Ana Marie Cox, Wesley Lowery, David Avella, John
Nichols, Jim Cavanaugh, Lynn Sweet, Blake Zeff, Eli Stokols, John Nichols


Ebola crisis.

And good morning. Thanks for getting UP with us this Saturday morning now
with only 10 days to go until the critical midterm election. We have a
pack two hours of politics, big news to get to this morning. We are also
learning more this morning at this hour about the high school freshman who
opened fire in his school`s cafeteria outside Seattle yesterday killing one
person, critically injuring four others before turning the gun on himself.
According to officials and witnesses out there. We will be going live to
Seattle just a few minutes from now with all of the latest.

But first, we begin this morning with some breaking news. New at this hour
in the fight to contain Ebola here in the United States. Just minutes ago
now, Illinois Governor Pat Quinn announced that he has ordered a mandatory
21 day quarantine for anyone arriving back in the United States in Illinois
who had contact with an Ebola patient in West Africa. Some of those
travelers are of course landing at Chicago`s O`Hare Airport, the first stop
in the U.S. Queens` mandatory quarantine follows in the footsteps of
similar orders issued yesterday by the governors of New York and New
Jersey. Andrew Cuomo and Chris Christie imposed 21 day quarantines last
night. That`s three states now that have these quarantined orders in
affect. The first person to be placed in quarantine meanwhile are woman
who arrived at Newark International Airport yesterday has now tested
negative in a preliminary test for Ebola. We`re just learning this this
morning. She remains in isolation and under observation at university
hospital in Newark.

And NBC`s Sarah Dallof is live for us this morning outside Bellevue
Hospital in Manhattan as where Dr. Craig Spencer who returned from West
Africa a week ago exhibited symptoms of Ebola on Thursday is being treated
in a special isolation unit there.

So, Sarah, good morning to you. So, you tell us, what is the latest on how
the patient is doing?

SARAH DALLOF, NBC NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Well, good morning, Steve. Dr.
Craig Spencer is reportedly in stable condition. And he felt well enough
yesterday to make several cell phone calls to friends and family from the
hospital. CDC officials utilized the help of the NYPD`s missing person
unit to track his movement and his contact during that two day period where
he started feeling tire up until he developed that fever. So far his
routine included a restaurant, a bowling alley, he took a ride on the
subway as well as a taxi. Now, his Harlem apartment last night went to an
extensive decontamination process, that is a scene we`ve seen repeated as
the businesses he patronized including that bowling alley and that
restaurant which is reportedly are re-open for business.

Now, Dr. Spencer has been treating patients in Guinea. He also had
volunteered multiple times at other places in Africa as well as Indonesia.
They described him as a tireless worker with a huge heart. Officials say,
he had been monitoring his temperature twice daily. Of course, the
quarantine, the 21-day quarantine for all medical workers returning from
Ebola stricken country, would not put into place until after he came back
and tested positive for Ebola here behind me. We were told no one in that
group so far Steve has developed any signs or symptoms of Ebola. Back to

KORNACKI: All right. Sarah Dallof live outside Bellevue Hospital in
Manhattan. Thanks for that update this morning. I appreciate that.

And one of the nurses who contracted Ebola in Dallas from patient Thomas
Eric Duncan and who is now been successfully treated for Ebola pay a visit
to the White House yesterday. Nina Pham was greeted by President Obama in
the Oval Office with a hug. The President trying to deliver a message that
Ebola is not easy to catch. But there is also the question of how Dr.
Spencer himself caught the virus. Yes, he directly treated patients on the
frontlines of the crisis in Guinea but he told authorities that he does not
believe the protective gear he work had been breached. In the case of Nina
Pham, some nurses in Dallas say the gear she wore to treat Duncan was open
at the neck. On the other hand, Duncan`s fiancee didn`t catch the disease
at all even though Duncan was sent home from the hospital a couple of days
after becoming symptomatic. She had contact with him while he was
symptomatic and she did not come down with Ebola. So, how is it that a
highly trained humanitarian aid doctor did catch Ebola when all strict
procedures appear to have been closely followed?

Here to help answer our question is Dr. Peter Shearer, he is the medical
director of Emergency Medicine at another New York City Hospital, another
great hospital at Mount Sinai. Doctor, thanks for joining us this morning.
So, let me start with the question. Obviously we`re just going on the
reports of what he, you know, the doctor, Dr. Spencer has told authorities
here in New York. But he has told them that he thinks he had the proper
protective gear on. There were no breaches. There were no, you know,
openings where this could have been transmitted. So we`re hearing that and
at the same time we`re hearing all of these sort of calm down messages here
in the United States where, hey, you have to go to these dramatic lengths
to contract these. So, how do you square these two things?

DR. PETER SHEARER, MOUNT SINAI HOSPITAL (NY): I mean, I think, you have to
look at the environment that he was in compared to the environment that
someone would be in in a subway here in New York City where Dr. Spencer may
have been in riding for example. So he was on an environment that was,
it`s heavily contaminated. So, patients who have a huge amount of viral
particles in their body and more than that, they`re also shedding those
particles. And there`s a huge amount of body fluids coming out of this
people in terms of vomit, diarrhea, bleeding and all that is containments -

KORNACKI: And so, what would the -- I don`t want to be too graphic here
but I think people are curious, what would the root be for somebody who`s
maybe all covered up or basically all covered up or maybe there`s like a
crack somewhere or something, if that`s the level were talking about here,
what would the root be?

SHEARER: I mean, the root would be, if you can imagine Dr. Spencer taking
care of these patients, you know, it`s not just putting on the suit and
leaving on from the time they -- there, multiple times far doing the day,
he`s putting on, taking off this fairly complicated personal protective
equipment and each of those maneuvers to get on and get off, there`s always
a possibility of some small contamination. I mean, talking small
contamination but some fluid that has a high concentration of infected
material, that`s where it becomes very dangerous.

KORNACKI: So, there are also, I think people, there might be some
confusion here because I think we`re getting some mixed messages too here
on the domestic front. Because on the one hand again, we`re hearing it`s
perfectly safe to go travel on the subways. The governor in New York
yesterday, the mayor of New York were down there on the subways. So,
you`re hearing that. On the other hand, we now have this 21 day
quarantine. Now, we say Illinois this morning becomes -- to do that. So,
it seems to send, you know, on the one hand, go back to your business, no
problem, no risk of infection. On the other hand, well, let`s keep these
people away from the subway, let`s keep them away from all this public
areas, I think people might have a hard time interpreting that too.

SHEARER: All right. And I think there are probably a mixed messages
between a political message and a public health message that you really
have to come together and that`s where I think there would the big
challenges. Certainly we know that Dr. Spencer did all of the right things
in terms of monitoring himself. And as soon as he had a low grade fever,
he notified people and was brought in to the right isolated health care
center appropriately. So, he did everything perfectly right. It causes a
bit of a stir in terms of concern among the public and tracking people and
things like that, just putting those two things together.

KORNACKI: I think that`s one of the things we`ve see these mixes messages
here because on the one hand he alerted everybody on time. He`s by all
measures been very cooperative and forthcoming with everything that`s going
on. On the other hand he knew he had been over in Guinea. He was coming
back and he was out on the subway and he is going to a bowling alley. Is
that a responsible thing to be doing?

SHEARER: Yes. So long as he didn`t have any febrile symptoms, he was not
considered to be infective. So, and we know from the experience with even
Mr. Duncan, who was clearly sick, his first visit to that emergency
department when he had a high temperature, 103. He was around multiple
medical personnel, other patients, he was on the waiting room for a couple
of hours getting tests done and no one was using any protective equipment
except for the usual gloves you would put on when you`re drawing blood.
And none of those people that he was exposed too that he exposed over the
course of many hours have come down with Ebola. So we know it takes more
than just being around someone with even a substantial fever. You need
other symptoms and really the people who are going to be infected are going
to be, not people are going to be traveling the subways.

KORNACKI: So, yes. So, where do you sort of expect this, I mean, because
we had, you know, first we had the patient in Dallas coming over from
Liberia. That was the first case, you know, he was sort of playing out in
the United States and then you had two people around him who came down with
it. Now you have basically the fourth case here in New York. How wide do
you expect this to get?

SHEARER: I will leave the predictions of that up to the epidemiologist who
really specialize in this but I think that in the past month we`ve really
ramped up our own preparations of hospitals in the U.S. So, I know at my
own hospital at Mount Sinai, we have been going to drills. We have been
increasing level of training of people in the hospital of -- in personal
protective equipment, we`ve got better designated areas. We`re doing
medical simulations. We`re putting people, and we`ll put on their full PPE
and take care of a simulated manikin so that they can use it handling the
equipment that we need too. So, when you`re taking care of an isolated
patient who has confirmed Ebola, you can be able to take care of them in a
safe way. So, I don`t think we would be expected to see the contamination
of medical workers that you would see in say, West Africa. So, I don`t
think we`ll get at like that. We`re doing an excellent job of identifying
patients and isolating them. So, there won`t be a huge amount of community
spread. So, everything in the CDC said about early on that we might get a
few cases here but we`re not going to, the disease isn`t going to get --
foot hold.

KORNACKI: Right. I mean, that`s the thing that we`re afraid is the
multiplying effect was three and the next thing you know is a few dozen and
the next thing you know is it`s out of control. But it`s been very
reassuring to watch the response here in New York City. I know, in Dallas
it raised some questions but in New York City, it`s certainly seem more
reassuring to watch, so, we hopefully this is something that stays
contained. And Dr. Peter Shearer, we really appreciate you taking this
time this morning. Thanks for getting up being on the show.

SHEARER: Thank you.

KORNACKI: We are going to have a more on the politics behind the
quarantine, we were just talking about their briefing. We`ll talk about
that a little bit more in just a bit. But first, as we juggle a lot of
news this morning, we want to turn to the aftermath of yesterday`s shooting
outside Seattle in Washington.

NBC`s Hallie Jackson now joins us live from Marysville, Washington, that`s
about 40 miles north of Seattle where yesterday during one -- where a
student open fire before turning the gun on himself. In addition to the
shooter, one female student was killed at least four more are critically

Hallie, what can you tell us the latest about the condition of those who
were shot yesterday?

HALLIE JACKSON, NBC NEWS CORRESPONDENT: So, let`s talk about what we know
right now, Steve. Two females are in critical condition, in one local
hospital. And in a different hospital, are two boys, two teenage students,
one in critical condition, another are 14-year-old in serious condition.
And we`re learning this morning, we`re getting word that both of those boys
are cousins of the suspected shooters here who law enforcement sources
identifying as Jaylin Fryberg. Now, a grandfather of these victims in the
local hospital say that they are all related to the shooter. We don`t know
much more about how Fryberg might be related to, for example, the female
victim who was killed in the cafeteria yesterday.

At this point, school Marysville-Pilchuck High School has been canceled all
next week just to give students time to grieve. And to get through what
has been a traumatic incident obviously are police are talking about. They
are going to need some counseling, some talk, to just talk about what it
happened and try to begin the healing process. We saw some of that start
last night at a candle light vigil that was held at a local church outside
Seattle here. About 1500 people attended singing songs, it was emotional,
you saw people hugging and crying, trying to begin what will be a long and
difficult process of grieving. At this point, we know that police still
have an active investigation into what exactly happened yesterday at that
high school. The student opened fire apparently right around 10:40 in the
morning. Just before 10:40, this was in the cafeteria.

We heard from students describing what they called really a chilling scene.
The shooter looking each victim in the eye before gunning them down. But
there have been some bright spots too, Steve. For example, last night,
Marysville High School was supposed to hold the football playoff game, the
opposing team offered to take second place since that game had to be
cancelled. So, you are seeing that communities here around Seattle, here
around Marysville come together and try to support the families and the
students whose lives is really are forever changed -- Steve.

KORNACKI: Yes. His own cousins too. That is just an amazing aspect of
this. Many thanks to Hallie Jackson. I appreciate the update from
Marysville, Washington.

We`re going to turn back to the Ebola crisis, when we return it seems that
not every prominent New York official grieved that this quarantine, the
mandatory quarantine announced last night is the right step. Details on
that, a political fight breaking over this. That`s next.



GOV. ANDREW CUOMO (D), NEW YORK: We will establish an interview and
screening process to determine an individual`s risk level by considering
the geographic area of origin panned and the level of exposure to the
virus. Depending on the risk level, a person could require a mandatory 21
day quarantine or at a government regulated facility.


KORNACKI: And that was New York Governor Andrew Cuomo yesterday announcing
that New York along with New Jersey will now require that all medical
personnel returning to the state after treating Ebola patients in West
Africa, be quarantined for 21 days. And in the last few minutes we have
now learned that passengers who arrived back from West Africa in Illinois
in Chicago`s O`Hare Airport will face the same mandatory three week
quarantine. That being ordered by the state`s Governor Pat Queen. No word
yet on how Chicago Mayor Rahm Emanuel feels about that. But here in New
York, Mayor Bill de Blasio and other New York City officials are apparently
not happy in the quarantine and were reportedly caught off-guard by
Governor Cuomo`s announcement.

Joining me now to discuss this in the weeks. Other big stories are Ana
Marie Cox of the Daily Beast. Wesley Lowery of "The Washington Post." And
David Avella, president of the conservative political action committee

So, interesting to watch this sort of political fight breaking out at least
according to the story in the New York Times today between de Blasio,
Cuomo. These are two democrats. The mayor of New York City, the governor
of New York State. The governor who is running for re-election right now
being attacked by his republican opponent yesterday before he made this
announcement for supposedly not, you know, taking this seriously enough.
Leaving risk out in the community. These sorts of things. And Cuomo
seeming to respond -- maybe you know, maybe it`s a coincidence with seeming
to respond with its quarantine order. And New York City officials now
according to this report being furious about this.

ANA MARIE COX, THE DAILY BEAST: Well, that`s a political thing.

KORNACKI: It`s a political thing with a real serious consequence. That 21
day mandatory --

COX: Right although I have to say that the 21 day mandatory quarantine for
the people who are actually treating Ebola patients is a lot more different
that some of the hysteria we`re seeing elsewhere. I mean, I think I sort
of admire that political maneuvering on that political, on that particular
issue because they have done something that somewhat sane that may comfort
people which let`s not forget, doing something to make people feel a little
more safe is probably a good idea without sort of averting to the hysteria
and completely not like medically sound kind of warnings. So, I think this
feud between de Blasio and Cuomo is almost purely political. It has very
little to do with what the right thing to do about Ebola.

KORNACKI: But it does speaks to something else to I guess. Because as I
was saying the last segment, it feels like there`s some mixed messages
here. And this sort of typifies, right, because that press conference the
other night, you know, we`re hearing just, you know, there`s absolutely
zero risk, go ride the subways and all of this stuff. And the next thing
we hear is, here comes the quarantine for people who are coming back. And
maybe he shouldn`t have been out and about. So, it seems like we`re
hearing two different things.

DAVID AVELLA, PRESIDENT, GOPAC: You know, occasionally we see that even
the democrats aren`t always on the things on page. We know republicans
aren`t always on the --


But in this situation, you know, sometimes the best leadership is to let
medical experts do their jobs. And let job creators do their jobs. And
sometimes politicians getting involved or make things worse.


WESLEY LOWERY, THE WASHINGTON POST: But no, I think it really -- it points
out this discrepancy between two different strategies. The idea of the
people won`t panic if we tell them not to panic, so let`s not do anything
or the idea of, let`s take steps that maybe aren`t even necessary but by
showing some type of action, maybe that will keep people from panicking.
It`s two different types of ideologists that we`re seeing as state
government and city governments try to deal with this. The initial idea
of, don`t worry. We have medical experts. It`s going to be fine. It`s
not airborne. And we saw that clearly did not stop people from panicking.

COX: Yes.


COX: If anything the change of direction might actually be a little more
unsettling than keeping the message consistent about there`s nothing to
worry about. Now I understand that politically it`s a really tough choice
to make. You want to be seen as being responsive but you also may want to
do something that is the inconsistency, that sort of drive some

KORNACKI: So, I mean, we have to talk about this. We`re ten days away
from a midterm election. And we are hearing politicians, I mean, I just
say, we might read the Cuomo move as a political move. We`re certainly
we`ve heard republicans talking about this week from a different
standpoint. How is this feeding the public`s move, the political climate,
the public climate ten days before a national election?

AVELLA: Well, it may contribute to an overall disgust that voters have
with the ineffective that they see in government. This issue by itself
isn`t going to elect or defeat any candidate.

COX: Yes.

AVELLA: The positions they have on job creations, the position they have
on fighting ISIS, those will have far bigger factors on who wins and who
loses in this election than Ebola will.

COX: And in part that because like republicans don`t have an answer
exactly to like what should be done. They simply can criticize Obama for
not doing --

KORNACKI: And that is sort of, that`s the big part of their message this
year. It`s an opportunity to say, you know, look, ISIS, Ebola. All of
these things are out of control. If you`re feeling fear, if you`re feeling
unsettled, vote the in party out. That seems to be. And that`s what out
parties do a lot. It certainly seems to be the party of the republican --

COX: That`s true. I mean, I`m not sure how affective that is for swing
voters. I think that that can be effective in driving your own car. I
mean, this is another -- your own pace up, but democrats are unlikely to
say, you know, what? You`re right up until now, like I was going to vote
for the democratic candidate but now that you`ve mentioned Ebola, you know,
I might go the other direction.

LOWERY: Exactly. You know? But I think that that`s the key. In the
midterm election we know it`s a battle of the base voters. And so, it
comes down to a lot of way, what do democrats have to get their people out
and what do republicans have to get their people out.

COX: You don`t want to scare people too much because you don`t want them
to stay home.



LOWERY: Oh, no. But I don`t know if there`s any risk of a republican
voter getting too scared. Oh, no, now there`s Ebola, I`m not voting.

KORNACKI: Right. That`s how I read it too. I`ve been reading, same with
the ISIS, how that intercepts with politics, listening to republicans. My
reading on it has been, it`s about base turn out. It`s about, you know,
they have a bit of an advantage there anyway, it`s about basically saying,
you know, looking for any way they can to fire up an already pretty fired
up base. But here is another thing to be outraged about, another thing to
be scared about, another reason to go out there and get Obama and the
democrats out.

AVELLA: You know, I always chuckle when Ana Marie and her colleagues want
to defend the President with, wow, you know, republicans aren`t doing
anything. You know, the President is trying to do all these crisis which
he`s not dealing with any of them, and it is why he has a 30 percent
approval rating. And that somehow he shouldn`t be held accountable, but
that is what voters are going to go to this election and decide on, do they
think the country is headed in the right direction? And whether the
progressive friends whether like it or not, the president is in charge of
the country.

KORNACKI: Has there been a problem with his response to Ebola. I mean,
it`s a scary thing for everybody. I`m watching the response here.

COX: I`ve been saying this for a while. We had one of the worst flu
epidemics in the history of the country under George Bush. Like four-
tenths as many people died as usual, usually 3,000 people a year died from
the flu, but I think it`s 14,000 people died under Bush. Was he doing
enough? I mean, I know that this is like, I`m not blaming him, I`m
actually just calling into question that you really need to hold the
President of the United States responsible for a medical epidemic, for an
illness. Now we do what I have, there`s some relation to that, we know,
there`s another virus came from Africa that somebody didn`t even mention.
Oh, that`s right. AIDS and Reagan. I mean, I think there`s some
connection but you have to be careful. And as far as like, I don`t want to
say that Obama is great and he`s doing all of the right things. I mean,
there are just a question of like, do you want to assume that the
opposition can do more?

AVELLA: If you`re looking at what`s going to happen in the upcoming
election, we talked about the President, we talked about President Bush,
and while I wish the `06 election would have had different results, we saw
what happened with voters -- but people were unhappy with the directions of
the country, which is what we`re seeing about this election. And this
election is going to be decided about the direction of the country. And
that, there is no question what voters think --

KORNACKI: Well, there is, I mean, it`s the analogy, the coach in football,
the -- baseball, you get too much credit for the things go right, you get
too much blame for the things that go wrong. It ends up coming with the
jobs sometimes when anything will be positive. We got to squeeze a break
in. A little bit more on the story. Also, Bill Clinton and something from
the 1990s back in the news right now in a very interesting way. We`ll get
to that in a minute.


KORNACKI: All right. Back with the panel. And turning now to
presidential politics. This story is going to prompt lots of conversation.
In an interview last month just coming out now. Former President Bill
Clinton was asked about the partisan divide that President Obama is facing.
And Clinton said that he as president in the 1990s had it worse and still
managed to get things done. Quote, "Nobody has accused him being Obama of
murder yet as far as I know. I mean, it was pretty rough back then." So,
you know, it`s so interesting. Whenever Bill Clinton talks here. I was
wondering what, you know, what Brand of 11 dimensional test is, he playing
here. He does have, you know, we have always said, he does have a point.

And that, you know, he was impeached. You know, Obama White House has put
the word out this year to rally their base. Republicans might impeach us.
Hey, the republicans actually did impeach Clinton. The thing about
accusing of murder, there were videos being circulating in the 90s that
accused the Clintons of murder. So, he did have a pretty rough from some
fascist of the opposition. With Clinton you`re always wondering about the
timing and the angle and the timing of this -- and the angle of saying
something like that raises all sorts of questions.

LOWERY: Of course. I`ve really really enjoyed this piece of the New York
Times. I thought it was really interesting. I think when you look at
comparing the Obamas to the Clintons. So, there are a few points. But
first is, a lot of the blow backs of President Clinton while he was in the
White House was self-inflicted wounds. I mean, you watch the PBS
documentary on the Clinton years, and you have democratic operatives
basically saying, this is the biggest waste in potential in the history of
the president. We could have had so much. But instead, every week we had
a new scandal popping up that we have to deal with.

KORNACKI: If he didn`t get involved with Monica Lewinsky, then there is no


COX: -- You know? Does President Clinton had a violinist following him


Because like, I mean, some of this is just simply self-pity. I mean, like
self-pity is maybe too strong a word. But, you know, he wants to remind
people how hard it was for him. And I think that he`s not exaggerating
exactly but he`s definitely sort of pinning himself into an image that he
likes. And also I want to say, like I don`t know if this can be translated
explicitly as a criticism of, I mean, it is a criticism of Obama but it`s
more, it says, it`s more about Clinton. And usually everything says more
about Clinton that it says about everyone else. And that`s the way he
likes it.

AVELLA: But friends like Bill Clinton, President didn`t need too many
enemies, you know. Now that he`s a grandfather, I mean, Bill Clinton is
becoming the old man that wants to tell you how bad things were in his


That`s right. I mean, pretty soon he had to deal with the Arkansas hate
with the single --


I mean, I suppose on some levels, every politician`s number one priority is
themselves and so it`s not surprising, I guess, completely but this is all
about the Clinton legacy tour and to the extent they are trying keep
Hillary propped up for 16 which I would say here today. Elizabeth Warren
has a far better chance of running for president than Hillary Clinton.

KORNACKI: You don`t think Hillary Clinton --

AVELLA: I don`t believe she`ll run. I think she`s looking at -- this
Elizabeth Warren situation, if you remember --

KORNACKI: She`s up 40 points today in the newest poll.

AVELLA: Well, today, so is Barack Obama. I mean, no, look, who is Barack
Obama at this point before --

KORNACKI: He wasn`t 40 points.

AVELLA: No. He once a senator who had just won election to the U.S.

COX: And, he had like an infrastructure that he was building.

AVELLA: So, does she.

COX: No, she doesn`t.

AVELLA: She had a national operation.


I can see you`re all wanting to push back against Elizabeth Warren if she
can win this nomination.

KORNACKI: Well, I hate to diffuse a great conversation, we were going to
talk about this a little bit more later. But I want to stick on the clean
one. Because another point I want to make on the Clinton, I wanted to just
talk about here before we get off the topic is, there is a 2016 -- if she`s
running in 2016 there is an obvious 2016 angle and Bill Clinton is saying
this, which is basically this is a pitch passed to Democratic Party base
and this is a pitch to the middle. This is a pitch to all of the voters
out there that the Clintons think, hey, they were with Obama in `08, and
he`s lost them in the last six year and we can win that back.

COX: -- with Obama in `08, this people forget the primary, I mean, like
there has been a progression in their relationship. Like I don`t think,
look, I don`t that Clinton and Obama are best friends. You know, I don`t
think that they particularly like each other. But I also think that this
Elizabeth Warren thing is a total fantasy. And I think, you know, I think
the relationship between those two women is actually stronger than most
people realize. I`ll suspect to see her on the stamp for Hillary. And
actually Hillary needs Elizabeth Warren. She need someone to bring up some
issues that she`s not as comfortable bringing up.

KORNACKI: Well, we actually been getting an update from New Hampshire
where Elizabeth Warren is today, the campaign for Jeanne Shaheen, we`re
going to get an update from a reporter -- there`s a little way and we`re
going to talk a bit little more about Elizabeth Warren and Hillary Clinton
who shared a stage yesterday in Boston. Some very interesting sound bites
that came out. Sticking around for that. But next, it is not just
candidates who are on the ballot in a week and a half. A popular proposal
that`s on the ballot. And several states the democrats think can save
their Senate for them. Will it? I`ll ask that question, next.


GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE (R), NEW JERSEY: I got to tell you the truth, I`m
tired of hearing about the minimum wage. I really am. I don`t think
there`s a mother or father sitting around a kitchen table tonight in
America who are saying you know honey if our son or daughter could just
make a higher minimum wage, my God, all of our dreams would be realized.
Is that what parents aspire to for their children? They aspire to a
greater growing America where their children have the ability to make much
more money and have much greater success than they`ve had. And that`s not
about a higher minimum wage, everybody.


KORNACKI: New Jersey Governor Chris Christie set off a fire storm this
week with those remarks. And now he`s saying, that he was misunderstood,
democrats are pouncing, here`s Labor Secretary Tom Perez.


TOM PEREZ, LABOR SECRETARY: I`ve met with low wage workers in New Jersey.
And you know, what? They are tired of working three jobs and living in


KORNACKI: From President Obama on down, democrats have been arguing for a
minimum wage hike. With no action happening in Washington, they`ve begun
focusing on the states. In New Jersey for instance, voters last year
approved the ballot initiative to raise the state`s minimum wage to 8.25 an
hour. And to set automatic increases going forward. And now, in this
year`s midterm elections, just 10 days from now, democrats have placed
questions on the ballot to raise the minimum wage in five states, including
three red states with hot Senate races, Alaska, Arkansas and South Dakota.
What democrats are trying to do is repeat what happened in 2006. That`s
when they put them minimum wage increases on the ballot in six states won
all six of them and at the same time helped to put democrats over the top
in tough Senate races.

In Missouri, that year for example raising the minimum wage initiative won
76 percent of the vote more than three and four voters. And on the same
ballot that day, democrat Claire McCaskill eked out a narrow win over
Senator Jim Talent. In Montana, another tough state for democrats, 73
percent of voters that year, back raising the minimum wage. Democrat Jon
Tester beat out incumbent Conrad Burns by less than one percent. All of
this was just enough to give democrats control of the Senate by one seat.
So, the idea for democrats here is to repeat the magic this year and to
save their imperial Senate majority by playing up their support for the
minimum wage. But is it working?

Here to answer that question, we have John Nichols, Washington
correspondent for The Nation who is back here. You have been all over sort
of Middle America, Midwest a lot of red states out there. A lot of these
states we`re talking about where this minimum wage questions are on the
ballot this year. Let me start and put some stats on, we have polling from
North Carolina, Kentucky, Louisiana, Iowa. These are actually some of the
key Senate battle grounds that`s here. This is the concepts of racing the
minimum wage, and you see it. It polls, it`s very popular. It`s near 60
percent in all those states. You have some very red states on that list.
We have other, you know, red states that`s on the ballot this year. It
looks like it`s going to pass. What about that second piece of it though.
Are people connecting this to the Democrat Party`s agenda?

JOHN NICHOLS, THE NATION: Well, here is where it gets interesting.
Because you`ve got the statewide. You should also understand that in many
cities, big cities across this country, places like Milwaukee, it`s on the
ballot as a local advisory referendum in all sorts of other forms. And so,
what we really see is a sub-story of the minimum wage as a factor in states
all over this country. Many places where the national media hasn`t even
picked up on the fact. But there are people campaigning, putting up yards
on, knocking on doors about minimum wage issues. It will play. I think
that if Bruce Braley post it off in Iowa, minimum wage is going to be a big
part of it. He`s been up with ads pointing out that Joni Ernst has
actually said she doesn`t believe in a federal minimum wage. Scott Walker
in Wisconsin has had a lot of trouble on this issue. He was asked by a
local group, raise up Wisconsin to look at whether $7.25 an hour was a
living wage and said, oh yes, it is. His administration said. That is
been coming back at him. So bottom-line is, it`s all over. I think it is
playing in quite a few places. I think it could be a factor in helping
some of these, but the one thing to understand is, republicans have gotten
smarter. And in Arkansas where it`s on the ballot, Tom Cotton says, he`s
voting for it. In Alaska, where it`s on the ballot, Senate candidate Tim
Sullivan says, he`s voting for.

KORNACKI: What they are doing there is they`re drawing a distinctions
between state level, they are saying, it`s OK for my state but when I go to
Washington I`m not doing this.

NICHOLS: It`s surreal. Oh, yes. Absolutely we got to go to nine, 10
bucks an hour here but I`m sure I don`t want to do it for people in the
next state over. And so, it`s a weird calculus but it is smart.

KORNACKI: From the standpoint or raising the minimum wage nationally
though, is this the way it has to be. Does it have to be state by state?

NICHOLS: Without a doubt. Look, I mean, we have had a fascinating
phenomenon on the minimum wage in America. If you recall back at the
ancient yesterday of like a year and a half ago, Barack Obama was saying,
maybe we`d go to $9 an hour. And then a couple members of the Congress
said, it should be 10. Now $10.10 has locked in as an accepted democratic
number. So, it`s move up. Places like Alaska, San Francisco talking about
$15. And yet, at the federal level, really no meaningful movement. Now,
here what gets interesting, if minimum wage plays bit on November 4rth, if
it wins in these, all of these states that`s on the ballot. If it maybe
saves Pat Quinn in Illinois -- ballot. If it wins in a lot of places,
perhaps the republicans will evolve up this Tom Cotton/Dan Sullivan model,
this two Senate candidate that had endorsed and said, maybe we ought to
back a little bit.

KORNACKI: And just get it out of the way.


KORNACKI: Well, because there`s that model, but then there`s also -- so we
played the cut from Christie started this week and Scott Walker, you
mentioned Scott Walker in Wisconsin running for re-election. He`s made --
to me it sounds like they`re reading off the same script.

NICHOLS: Absolutely.

KORNACKI: It sort of like, you know, it is an insult to workers to even
talk about the minimum wage because we want them earnings so much more.
Why do we even talk about the $25 an hour when we want workers making three
or four times of that amount? That seems to be the evolving script they`re
going with.

NICHOLS: Without a doubt. In fact, it`s clearly a talking point. And the
interesting thing is, that there`s two elements of it. One is that, sort
of an unscripted settings. They will actually say, they don`t like the
minimum wage. Scott Walker has said, you know, I don`t really see the
point of the minimum wage. I`m all for the higher wages. Joni Ernst
something relatively similar in Iowa. But when they are actually pressed
on it, their message is well, I`m all about three times the minimum wage,
four times the minimum wage. Does that work? I don`t think so. Look,
maybe it does with some of the base. It reinforces some concepts from.
But I was listening to Governor Christie there and I thought to myself, you
know, nobody sits around the table and talks about -- no, he`s right.
Everybody sits around the table and hopes that their child is the president
of the United States, or the CEO of Apple. Absolutely without a doubt. Or
hosting a TV show on Saturday morning.

But the reality is that I think Christie misses, that I think Walker has
missed. Some others. A lot of those people sitting at that stable, those
parents talking, they are making the minimum wage. And so, this isn`t
about talking about your kids. In across this country, especially not just
in big cities but in a lot of rural areas in competitive states like Iowa,
even South Dakota, rural folks who may worked at a restaurant, you know, in
a garage, some place like that. They are making relatively low wages. And
the idea of bumping it up. It makes sense to them.

KORNACKI: Yes. And that something to be keeping an eye on. We will look
at always election returns coming in 10 days from now. But you are going
to have these red states that maybe the republicans have a comeback in the
red states but at the same time, look at the numbers at the minimum wage
hikes, because I think they are probably all going to pass and maybe even -
- these days. Anyway, John Nichols from The Nation. We really appreciate
it. And we`ll see you a little bit. A little surprise from John Nichols
there, we`ll tell you about that in a minute, but we want to return to the
news right after this to yesterday`s shooting, not that high school near
Seattle. But there was another one Sacramento. Details on that and a
follow up to that, that`s next.


KORNACKI: We are shuttling back and forth between politics in news this
morning. Now, only ten days before the midterm elections. It`s also
however the morning after this happened. A shooting rampage in Northern
California, where three members of the Sacramento County sheriff`s
department were shot. And two of them are now dead. Two suspects are
under arrest. And a motorist caught in the cross fire is in serious
condition with a gunshot wound to the head. The shootings begin as
officers approached the car park in a motel parking lot. A suspected
gunman eluded authorities in a manhunt that lasted for hours yesterday, one
of the largest manhunt in Sacramento history. He was ultimately captured
and arrested along with the woman who was with him.

We will pivot back to politics right after this, busy Saturday morning
here. Stay with us.


KORNACKI: All right. So we`ve been talking all year on this show about
one of the big battles that is going to be playing out on Election Day ten
days from now. The battle that has to do with Capitol Hill, Washington.
Who`s going to control the House? Well, it looks like it will be the
republicans. But how big will that majority be? How much striking
distance will democrats be and for 2016 when it comes to the House? Also
the Senate. Which party will control the Senate? What is the biggest, you
know, sort of source of suspense this year in the midterm elections? But
the second big battle is not in Washington, the second big battle on
election night is going to be taking place in the state house, the capitals
across the country. And something potentially historic is going to be
happening there. We want to tell you about it this morning. Because
again, we`re ten days away now from the election.

So, what you see on the screen here. The big board been -- for the last
week. Going to be doing it from next 10 days as well. But what you see on
the screen right here, these are the worst years in modern political
history for incumbent governors. These are the years in which the most
incumbent governors were defeated for re-election in the November general
election. So, what you see there is in 1970. This is during Richard
Nixon`s presidency. Seven incumbent governors in the November`s election
lost their jobs. They were fired by the voters, 1978. Jimmy Carter`s
midterm. Again, seven, that election. In 1990, big anti-incumbent year
under George Bush Sr., six incumbent governors lost. So, we wanted to put
those up there to put in some perspective what is on the line this year.
It`s 2014, we don`t know what the answer is but here is something to keep
in mind. Let me put the right button this time.

There`s something to keep in mind. What you see on the screen here are 14
states that we`ve covered in yellow. These are 14 states where right now,
incumbent governors are in some danger of being defeated for re-election
ten days from now on election night. Now, this is not counting Hawaii. We
should mention, in Hawaii, the incumbent governor already lost in the
primary. We`re only talking about governors losing in the general
election. So, we`ve already lost the governor this year. But we`re
talking about the general election. There are 14 states. So, if even half
this many governors lose on election night. We`re talking about history.
We`re tying history. If more than that lose, if eight or more loss, we`ve
made history. It becomes the bloodiest election in modern political
history for incumbent governors.

And we should also point out, we`re not just talking about democratic
governors here. We`re not just talking about republican governors here.
This is a little different from Washington. We`re talking about partisan
wave, one way. We`re talking about governors from both parties who are in
grave danger. So, let`s take a closer look, we`re going to run through
some of the polling numbers here to show you who is in the most danger.
Here`s a perfect example. This is Alaska. And, you know, Alaska is a
state and it`s a republican state. You have an incumbent republican
Governor Sean Parnell. Surely he`s safe. Right? Well, no, as you can
see, he is now trailing. This is the average of all of the polls that have
been conducted in Alaska. And Alaska is a tough state to poll. But the
average shows the independent candidate and this is a very interesting
story. The independent candidate leading Sean Parnell, the republican
incumbent, the independent candidate teamed up with the guy who used to be
the democratic nominee. They teamed up a couple of months ago, that
democrat is now running for lieutenant governor on this ticket, and in this
week something crazy happened.

Sarah Palin who was governor when Sean Parnell was lieutenant governor.
They used to be a ticket together. Sarah Palin went back to Alaska this
week and endorsed the independent ticket. So, there`s a governor who is in
grave danger, moving right along here. Colorado, we`re going to talk about
this in a few minutes actually. But you can see, the incumbent, democrat,
John Hickenlooper, basically tied with his republican opponent.
Connecticut, here`s democratic incumbent who right now slightly behind in
the polling average against this republican, blue state, Connecticut,
democratic governor in serious danger there. In Florida, we`ve talked
about this, a lot on the show, there`s the fan, all the stuff you know
about already, but Charlie Crist has pulled ahead of Rick Scott there.
Close race but Charlie Crist, the former governor, the former republican,
the challenger now leading the incumbent governor there.

As you can see, number seven. Seven is where you tie history. Eight is
where you make history. We`re sneaking up on that already. Look at this,
in Georgia, Nathan Deal, republican incumbent against Jimmy Carter`s
grandson Jason Carter. Very close race there in Georgia obviously a close
Senate race there as well. This one not so close but there`s been some
polling recently that suggests maybe, this is a bit of a reach. But maybe
the democrat A.J. Balukoff has a chance against Butch Otter has been the
governor of Idaho. A republican for eight years. There might be some
otter fatigue. That might be a stretch though. Illinois, we talked about
this in the last segment. My goodness, Pat Quinn his approval ratings down
in the 30s. He raised taxes 67 percent. But look at this, very much in
this race. He could lose. He could win. We`re going to talk about in a
little bit. But basically a dead even race there.

In Illinois, Kansas, I think you this story by now. Sam Brownback, the
incumbent governor, the former senator trailing the democrat out there.
Democrats have an opportunity to win three marquee races in Kansas this
year. The Senate, the governor`s race and also, maybe secretary of state
against Kris Kobach. Here`s Sam Brownback trailing in the average of polls
in Kansas, in Maine. Another story. You`re probably familiar with Paul
LePage who got in with about 40 percent of the vote four years ago because
of the independent. Very controversial Paul LePage, will he be re-elected
because of the independent. To keep a close eye on that race, Michigan,
the incumbent republican there, Nick Snyder, he expanded Medicaid under the
Affordable Care Act. It helped do voters in the middle. He`s in a little
better position.

But again, Democrats still think they have a shot hear and they are
certainly within striking distance. New Hampshire, Maggie Hassan, a
democrat in a little better shape there than other incumbents, or again,
this one is valuable because there`s some controversy suddenly around John
-- the incumbent governor and his wife. Again, he`s ahead right now but
there`s some volatility out there. But again, this one would be a stretch.
Pennsylvania, this is not a stretch. The incumbent governor there, there
is no incumbent governor in the country who`s in worse shape than Tom
Corbett, he is running more than ten points behind the democrat in the
average of poll. Tom Corbett pretty much looks done in Pennsylvania.
That`s almost a guaranteed pick up for a challenger right there. And then
we end on Wisconsin and obviously look at that. 47.3 in the average for
the democrat. 47.3 in the average for Scott Walker.

This may be the single most competitive governor`s race in the country this
year. The steaks obviously very high with Scott Walker looing to run for
president in 2016. If he loses this race, that`s like when George Allen
lost his Senate reelection in Virginia in 2006. It takes him out of the
next presidential race. So, there`s high stakes here for democrats in term
of Scott Walker`s future. But again, think of the numbers we`re talking
about there. Seven in the record for the modern era, seven governors at
once, that`s the most who is ever lost in a general election. And we just
ran through those numbers. And you can see a lot more than seven are in
danger of losing in this election. Something to keep a close eye on. We
will certainly monitor over the last 10 days. We`ll have more on governors
in the next hour.

But also in the next hour, they are getting ready for a big event in New
Hampshire, Elizabeth Warren on the campaign trail up there. A live report,
straight ahead.


KORNACKI: New rules in the race to contain Ebola. Thanks for staying with
us this hour. As we`ve been reporting this morning, state officials are
taking new steps in their efforts to contain Ebola.

Illinois Governor Pat Quinn just this morning joined with his counterparts
from New York and New Jersey and announced that he`s imposing a mandatory
21-day quarantine for anyone who has had any close contact with an Ebola
patient in West Africa.

The move comes in the wake of New York City doctor contracting the virus.
In the days between his return to the U.S. when he went to the hospital
with symptoms, he travelled extensively around New York City. More on that
in just a little bit.

But we want to begin this morning with the latest developments in
Washington State as where four victims of yesterday`s deadly school
shooting remain hospitalized and are reported to be critically injured.

The fifth victim was killed yesterday. Police say the alleged gunman, a
freshman, a high school football player and a member of the homecoming
court also took his own life. The alleged shooter doesn`t seem to fit the
profile of a quote/unquote "typical school shooter."

Joining me now for more is James Cavanaugh. He is a law enforcement
analyst and retired ATF special agent. So Jim, thanks for joining us this
morning and we were getting an update from out there earlier in the show.

Certainly, the sketch that`s sort of emerging about this shooter, you know,
football team part of the homecoming court, and I guess, we say, he doesn`t
fit the profile, but is there a typical profile?

behavioural analysis section, which I`m very familiar with. ATF has had
agents in there as profilers since 1984. I used to supervise them. I know
lots of people in there and they are a great unit.

You know, Clint Vanzet was a member of that unit. They did studies on mass
shootings and active shooters. They say there`s a copycat phenomenon, for
sure, that people -- they were involved in these things, which study other
mass shootings like the Newtown shooters studying Columbine.

So that is something they uncovered. But also, you know, there`s always a
lot of suicide issues surrounding these, certainly some mental health
issues, but there is also, Steve, as you`ve kind of get to here is
grievance issues.

People have a grievance, a grudge. They are mad at somebody at the school.
A lot of that times it`s typical human reaction. It may not necessarily
be, you know, serious mental health issue in law enforcement. We have to
deal with that all the time.

People are mad at somebody. There`s a grievance or grudge. But what
happens is the developing 15-year-old then goes and gets a berretta .40-
caliber that he has access to.

Likely at the home and he uses that to settle the grievance or grudge or
wrong or lost his girlfriend or racial insult. Whatever it may be that
everyone is going to experience in their lives in many of these setbacks.

KORNACKI: Yes, I mean, one of the things that just caught me in this is,
obviously, these are his classmates, these are also fairly two of these
victims are his cousins.

CAVANAUGH: Right, Steve. The anger spills over in young people. You
know, they are developing. We all live through those tumultuous years.
You are developing your brain, your personality, your hormones, everything
is changing for you. The small things seem big.

And you know, so you can overreact. That`s why parents really have to lock
up their guns in their home, you know, their own gun control in their own

You might give the young person a gun to target shoot. Shooting sports is,
you know, great in America, I mean, lots of people like to shoot. They
like to shoot their teenage sons. They like to hunt.

But you know, unfettered access to a gun, it can destroy your family. It
will destroy this family of the shooter. Look what it has done to the
families of the victims. It is just horrible.

So we need to think about these things as parents and you know, and then
when the science comes that a person is in trouble, a young person. It
will be spilling out. It spills out of them all the time.

It comes to the attention of their fellow students. It comes to the
attention of school administrators, sometimes the police. That`s when you
have to step in and say, OK, what`s going on here?

This guy is having trouble, does he have access to firearms, do we need to
take any steps positively for counselling psychological help, law
enforcement action school activity, many, many of these plots had been
stopped, but all too often they are not and they could be.

KORNACKI: All right, got some good advice there. Thanks to Jim Cavanaugh
for getting up early this morning joining us, I really appreciate that.
Thank you.

CAVANAUGH: Thanks, Steve.

KORNACKI: Only ten days now before the election, we want to turn now back
to the campaign trail. We were just discussing the really surprising
number of incumbent governors who are in danger of being fired by the
voters in their states this election. Again, it could be a historic number
this year.

Some of them are Democrats, some of them are Republicans. There is a lot
of anger to go around. We were talking about the state houses across
America. Among the Democrats, there`s the embattled Pat Quinn in Illinois.

He raised taxes 67 percent several years ago to fight the state`s pension
crisis then he watched his approval rating plummet, but he actually has a
chance of pulling off one of the most improbable come backs of this year or
any year in politics. He`s doing it by taking some pages from President
Obama`s playbook, more on that in just a moment.

In Colorado meanwhile, Governor John Hickenlooper, saw conservatives
mobilize recall two Democratic state senators last year over a gun control
law that he championed in the wake of the Aurora movie theatre shooting.

Now he, Hickenlooper, is fighting to keep his job in the swing state that
made Democrats see as key to their national future, more on that in just a
second as well.

Also in New York, Andrew Cuomo is not in political danger. The son of
liberal icon, Mario Cuomo, is well positioned to win a second term. But
his alliances with Wall Street and his alliances with Republicans along
with the pesky federal investigation had many Democrats wishing they had
another choice in that race.

Three Democratic governors here, two in grave danger of losing and one who
a lot of Democrats wish was in grave danger of losing. Joining me now
three reporters who know their home states better than anyone, we have Lynn
Sweet, Washington Bureau chief for the "Chicago Sun Times," Eli Stokols,
political reporter for KDVR in Denver, and politics editor for Salon and
columnist for Capitol New York.

Lynn, I will start with you. We will talk with the Illinois governor`s
race here. I think it is a fascinating race. First of all, we`ll show it
again, we saw it a minute ago, the polling average in Illinois right now is
basically giving you a dead even race.

Rauner, the Republican challenger, a wealthy businessman ahead by 2/10 of 1
percent point over Pat Quinn, the incumbent governor, in the polling
average there. The interesting thing to me, Lynn, I want to play you this
first and ask you about it.

This is the campaign that Pat Quinn is running that has sort of
surprisingly put him in contention for this. I want to play a cut and ask
you about it.


ANNOUNCER: After the billionaire took money out, it went bankrupt. People
lost their jobs. The CEO was given a $5 million bonus to tide them over.
The people who lost their jobs, they got a $20 gift card.


KORNACKI: The Quinn campaign is trying to do to Bruce Rauner what the
Obama campaign did to Mitt Romney with Bain Capital in 2012. What`s your
read on it? Is it working?

LYNN SWEET, "CHICAGO SUN TIMES": It is working. It is a very close race
as you know. Let me just put out a few things there because I know we have
a lot to cover, Steve. Rauner has so far put more than $23 million in the
campaign, which of course is matched by the way by many of his wealthy

So this is not a self-funded campaign. Early on, Pat Quinn took on this
them of economic populism. He is very much pushing the minimum wage. It`s
a major increase. It`s a major part of his campaign. There is the minimum
wage question on the Illinois ballot.

That`s there to boost voter turnout. The Quinn campaign knows that part of
what it really has to do win is you can`t necessarily defend some of the
controversies he`s on. It`s very hard. This income tax hike at 67 percent
is very difficult.

But if you turn down and amplify the minuses that Rauner brings to this,
which is that he is very rich. He has run companies. He`s not like you
and me. Those are the themes. That`s something.

Most interesting, there is a debate Monday and Rauner who had been
adamantly opposed to a minimum wage increase especially during a big
Republican primary, where he ran to the right, all of sudden, out of the
blue, he`s now for some kind of a minimum wage hike.

That tells you how close this is and for a man like that to come out for a
minimum wage tells you that he`s a little versatile in his positions. Just
one other thing, there are themes that you have seen in other state races

Rauner is just known for sustaining unions. Unions which have had their
own question marks about Pat Quinn through the years have been coming
through this morning as we speak.

Quinn has added big SEIU rally in the Chicago area. Unions have been
pouring in hundreds of thousands of dollars, but the Republicans had a big
financial, you know, just a financial lopsided situation, but he is ending
the campaign as he started it.

Which is that you could be a billionaire businessman and run companies, but
that does not mean that you will care for the people of Illinois in the way
I have even with some of the flaws that obviously he has. Everyone by now
knows it because I was around the commercials all the time.

KORNACKI: This is one is razor thin an election.

SWEET: One other quick point. The White House has been sending in
everybody Obama twice. Just in this month, Obama, Biden, twice, everybody
but sunny and bow, and if those drugs would be help (inaudible) --

KORNACKI: Well, another case study, let me ask you about that. We`ll put
it up on the screen. Hickenlooper, the Democratic incumbent, a race at the
start of the year that people said nationally Hickenlooper should be fine.

Basically again, a tie when you look at the polling average here. An
interesting question, Eli, I want to play you some tape for you and have
you respond to it. There was a heated debate out there. The issue, we`ve
talked about this a lot nationally.

There is a personhood issue on the ballot out there in Colorado this year.
Democrats trying to put the Republican candidate on the defensive that, he
then responded in this debate by taking this tragedy last year where a
corrections chief was murdered and tries to turn that against Governor
Hickenlooper. Want to play that and ask you about it.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: John, what do you have to say to women who are widows,
who have orphans because of parolees that you`ve let out of state
correction direct from solitary confinement?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tom Clemens was part of that reform. For you to make
his murder part of a political gambit I think is reprehensible.


KORNACKI: Politically, who`s getting the better of that argument?

ELI STOKOLS, KDVR-TV: At this point, the governor is getting the better of
that argument. The Republicans had a lot of success earlier this year in
the summer framing this election as a referendum on John Hickenlooper`s

They said he`s just a guy who is nice and makes funny TV adds, but he`s not
comfortable making the really different decisions related to, you know,
carrying the death penalty or on the state`s gun control bills that were
passed last year.

But as campaign shifted to the fall, he tried to pivot QA public safety
argument and the Clemens case that he referenced in that debate and has
just put a TV ad referencing that`s a dicey and kind of tough topic for him
to talk about. It may have backfired a little bit.

Liza Clemens, the widow of Tom Clemens, the slain corrections chief wrote
Beau a letter saying please stop politicalizing our tragedy. The "Denver
Post" Editorial Board coming to Hickenlooper and her defense calling it
disgusting what he`s doing.

Really the public safety issue is a strange turn for Beau Prey at the end
because it`s really not top of mind for voters here. John Hickenlooper has
always been a very likable politician. You may not agree with him on
everything, but he`s a centrist, consensus governor.

Colorado is a centrist, consensus state. You don`t hear a lot about those
gun bills in this campaign because Republicans understand they have to win
all those unaffiliated voters in the middle.

So the critique of John Hickenlooper that had been working had made this
race close earlier this summer was about leadership, was about does this
guy have a stiff enough spine. In the closing days, that`s not really
where Prey is and I think the feeling on the ground showing the public
polls with a margin of error.

But the feeling on the ground here, you talk to the Hickenlooper folks,
they are pretty comfortable with where they are. I think their internal
track showing them up 6 points now.

KORNACKI: That`s interesting. Mr. New York Politics, the race here not
that close, we will put the numbers up. Andrew Cuomo coasting Rob
Astorino, you see the Republican nominee were more than behind him.

But Blake, the story here is it is kind of extraordinary. I heard Andrew
Cuomo in the debate this week because the first Democrat that I`ve heard
used the "I`m not a scientist" line when asked about fracking.

He says and does a lot of things that drive Democrats and liberals crazy.
Explain the dynamic here for people.

BLAKE ZEFF, SALON.COM: Sure. You`re quite right. Unlike the other races
we`re talking about, this is not going to be a competitive general election
race. Andrew Cuomo faces a Republican in Rob Astorino, who has run a
pretty poor campaign in a very blue state where there is very little margin
of error for a Republican.

However, Cuomo had a surprisingly tight primary race. He ended up winning
with about 60 percent of the vote, but to lose four of 10 primary votes is
very rare for an incumbent governor. As your viewers are probably aware,
(inaudible) was the main candidate that was against him in the primary, got
about a third of the vote against him.

That`s because like you said, he`s been criticized on everything from
environmental issues like fracking to coziness with Wall Street, to tax
policy, to education, all sorts of things like that.

The interesting to look for in a general election is going to be. All
those people who voted against Andrew Cuomo in the primary, those Democrats
to the left, what are they going to do in the general election?

They seemed to have three or four options. Option one is they can write
out Teachow as a write in vote. I don`t think a lot of them are going to
do that. Teachow has not spoken out herself about what they do. That
seems unlikely.

Some may want to send a message to Cuomo to narrow his margin of victory of
actually voting for the Republican. We`ll see how many end up doing that.
There is a green party candidate named Howie Hawkins who is on the ballot
and is polling at around 10 percent, which is very high for New York State.

I mean, he tends to run every cycle and gets more in 2 to 3 percent range
so that would be an interesting thing. Something else that Andrew Cuomo
actually is on the working families party line that is the liberal party
line in New York that tends to be where liberals would register their

However he struck a deal with them where ended up on their ballot line and
so now you got a really interesting scenario where Democrats on the left
are trying to figure which way to go on this one.

KORNACKI: That will always baffle me just the idea that Cuomo has to worry
about his left flank in politics. It`s a crazy development, but that`s the
story of Andrew Cuomo in New York. Anyway, thanks to Lynn Sweet from the
"Chicago Sun Times," Eli Stokols from KDVR-TV in Denver and Blake Zeff from
Salon in Kaplan, New York. I appreciate all of you joining us this

Elizabeth Warren is spending her Saturday morning on a campaign trail on a
place that just happens to be in early primary state. We`ll have a live
report next.



with your senior senator, the passionate champion for working people and
middle class families, Elizabeth Warren.


KORNACKI: That was former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton yesterday
campaigning for Martha Coakly alongside Elizabeth Warren in Massachusetts.
This morning, Senate Warren has crossed state lines up north to New
Hampshire where she`s now this morning trying to defeat Scott Brown for a
second time.

Warren has stepped publicly in 14 states so far this fall. She`s also
helped private fundraisers and she is getting the rock star treatment in
her campaign appearances. Across the board, people are saying she`s gotten
the most electric response of any of the 2014 Democratic surrogates.

For a long time now there has been a draft Warren movement among some on
the left to try to get her for president in 2016. And "People" magazine,
of all places, was asked Warren this week if she would seek the White

She reportedly -- she just wrinkled her nose according to the magazine and
said I don`t think so. And then she added a little more wiggle room,
quote, "If there is any lesson I`ve learned in the last five years it is
don`t be sure about what lies ahead. There are amazing doors that could

Well, today, the political door that Elizabeth Warren is trying to keep
open is Senator Jeanne Shaheen`s in New Hamphsire. MNSBC`s Kasie Hunt is
standing by for us live in the grand state right now.

Kasie, thanks for joining us. Let me ask you, you had Warren and Clinton
on the same stage, but it was a little unfair that is Elizabeth Warren`s
home state, that sort of her turf.

New Hampshire, a little more neutral, I guess. What`s your sense of this
in terms of enthusiasm on Democrats? If you tell them Elizabeth or Hillary
is coming to town who gets them more excited?

residents among Democratic activists and the base. Boston is the main
media market here. So all of the voters, all the activists have seen all
of Elizabeth Warren`s ads, you know, from when she runs against Scott

And I think that her three rallies today with Jeanne Shaheen are going to
sort of give us a glimpse into what it might be like is she were to open
that door and take a step toward running for president.

She`s going to rally with students here at UNH this morning and by the end
of the day, she`ll be in Keen, New Hampshire, a real hot bed for a lot of
Democratic activists.

Now of course, New Hampshire is possibly the friendliest turf for Hillary
Clinton should she decide that she is going to run for president. Bill
Clinton was here earlier this month and he said, you know, this is a state
that has treated the Clintons very well over the years.

A place a lot more friendly to her than Iowa is and she is actually going
to be here next weekend campaigning with Jeanne Shaheen just days before
the election.

KORNACKI: There`s an interesting test there. Read that quote from
"People" magazine. I have to say, I know we are always micro analysing how
these people talk. What`s your read on what she`s saying there.

HUNT: I mean, it sounds to me like this is a step forward from where she
had been before. Her quotes had been very straight forward. No, I am not
running for president. I think for any of these politicians, you see this
across the board.

People see an opportunity. They start to hear, you should do this. This
may be Elizabeth Warren`s moment. There are populace strains running
through both parties. She has tapped into that. We`re already starting to
see Hillary fatigue.

I mean, that maybe more among those of us who very, very close attention to
all of this than it is among the voters, but I think for any politician
it`s really hard to resist those calls who say do it, do it, we want you.

KORNACKI: That is the story we saw with Barack Obama, this time, eight
years ago in 2006. Anyway, Kasie, good luck. Thanks for taking a few
minutes this morning. Appreciate it.

HUNT: Thanks, Steve. Great to see you.

KORNACKI: All right. What Hillary Clinton had to say about Warren and
what Warren has to say about Clinton? The panel is back after this.



CLINTON: I love watching Elizabeth. You know, give it to those who
deserve to get it.


KORNACKI: Former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton yesterday talking
about Senator Elizabeth Warren as she was campaigning for Massachusetts
gubernatorial candidate, Martha Coakley as we just mentioned. Elizabeth
Warren seemed to open the door, a crack maybe a little to her run for
president this week, maybe.

Now I want to bring back our panel to talk about this. We got Ana Marie
Cox from the "The Daily Beast," Wesley Lowery of the "Washington Post,"
David Avella of Gopac.

So we started talking about it last hour. I don`t know if there`s any
interest in Elizabeth Warren`s mind about this. But if any Democrat was
out there who is capable of giving Hillary a run for her money in 2016,
it`s Elizabeth Warren or is anyone?

COX: Capable of giving her a run for her run. Speaking of money who has
the money that Hillary Clinton does. Warren, I don`t think she will run.
I suspect you`re going to see her stumping for Hillary.

She has an interest of getting Hillary elected. I will say one more thing
on income inequality and consumer protection. The income disparity between
average pay and CEO is 300 to 1. People think it is 7 to 1.

If we can sort of make people aware of that, I think that, you know,
Elizabeth Warren is going to be really helpful in the trailer.

KORNACKI: She gets credibility certainly.

LOWERY: I actually don`t think Warren could give Clinton a run for her
money. Warren on the national stage and you`d see how far to the left she
is of someone like Hillary Clinton. I don`t know how well that would play
in the heartland of the country.

I mean, we`re talking about a presidential map. I think that Elizabeth
Warren has a much less realistic path towards the presidency than someone
like Hillary Clinton or someone like Deval Patrick.

In the hearts of Democratic voters, many who I have talked to have been
resolved that Hillary Clinton is going to be the candidate. I don`t know
that Elizabeth Warren fills that gap. I think warren has a lot more to
lose than running for president than a lot of these other people we`d talk
about running against Clinton.

She`s relatively popular both nationally and certainly locally in Boston
and New Hampshire. She has a large platform. She`s seen as a rising star
on the left. The Democrats, if they lose the Senate this year, could
easily take the Senate back in 2016 potentially with a Democratic president

Is she going to be committee chairwoman? She could get a bigger role where
she could potentially do things that could be more meaningful.

AVELLA: All of that is possible. No one is singing from the song book.
That she so articulately talks about, which is what Democratic primary
voters love, which is income warfare, class warfare, which is the only way
you can move up the ladder is if the government helps you.

To our point about the `08 election, which you dismissed earlier, Barack
Obama was in single digits at this point until he ran a better campaign
with a message that about what voters wanted.

KORNACKI: I think he was about 15, 20 points behind. You`re looking at a
50-point gap right now. As a Republican, when you look at this race, do
you want Elizabeth Warren to run --

AVELLA: I think she`s going to run. If Hillary decides to run, which I
don`t think she will, she`s going to have the same -- she`s going to have
to defend why did she have all those votes for Wall Street. What did she
vote for the Iraq war. All of the things that kept her from getting the
nomination last time. What makes it difference this time?

KORNACKI: The counter to that would be --

COX: For one thing people who know foreign policy that hurt her in `08. I
think her opinion on public policy -- people really examine secretary of


AVELLA: It`s part of her record.

COX: We`re not supposed to yell at each other.

KORNACKI: This is it. If it`s Hillary Clinton -- the one thing we`ve
never seen before is she lost in 2008, but she got 17 million votes. We`ve
never seen a loser in a Democratic race. Republican race get 17 million
votes. It`s a very unique position.

LOWERY: Of course, we were talking billion Florida governor race we have
two incumbents that come with this built in constituency and people who
have voted for them before. That`s something that people have overstated.
So in some ways, a voting relationship, a lot of people have voted for her
before and voted for her husband.

COX: Voters don`t like to be told that they are wrong about somebody. I
think she will hang onto those votes. She only has to build upon it. I
think she suffers something of an enthusiasm gap with Obama but has some
talented surrogated working for her.

KORNACKI: All right, my thanks to Anna Marie Cox for joining us this
morning. Wesley David you`re sticking around for a minute because you are
going to be part of "Up Against the Clock is next. Back to this morning`s
breaking news in the effort to contain Ebola. That`s next.


KORNACKI: Ten days until the election, that is it, which means we`ve been
talking a lot of politics this morning. We`ve also been tackling the
mornings breaking news including about Ebola. The World Health
Organization announcing this morning that the death toll from the Ebola
crisis is now approaching 5,000 worldwide out of more than 10,000 cases.

Only about 90 minutes ago, Illinois Governor Pat Quinn announced that his
state will now join in New York and New Jersey in imposing a mandatory 21-
day quarantine for returning travellers from West Africa, who had contact
with Ebola patients.

One woman is already under quarantined. She is being monitored at the
University Hospital in Newark, New Jersey. We`ve learned this morning that
her initial test for Ebola has come back negative. She will also stay
under observation and undergo more tests for the rest of the 21-day
quarantine period.

More updates as they become available right here on MSNBC. We will be
right back with our unique take on the entire week in news and current


ANNOUNCER: It`s time for Up Against The Clock. A born journalist, he
interviewed his first presidential candidate at age 12 so ask him about
Hubert Humphrey when you say hello to John Nichols.

A native of West Virginia, this mountaineer is looking to concur the Up
Against The Clock peak, please welcome David Avella. He grew up watching
the show "Boy Meets World." We will find out what he thinks about the
program "Boy Meets Game Show." It`s Wesley Lowery. And now the genial and
affable host of Up Against The Clock, Steve Kornacki.

KORNACKI: Thank you for a packed episode of Up Against The Clock. Our
current events and politics game show. Let me remind you how it works. We
play three rounds here. Each round 100 second long, 100 points in the
first second, 200 in the second, 300 in the third. The questions get
harder as we go along.

You can ring in anytime, but remember you`ll be penalized for any incorrect
answer. So keep that in mind, also, we have several instant bonus
questions scattered throughout here. We will get to those when they come
up. I`ll explain them then.

Until then I`ll remind the studio audience as always, please we need
absolute silence here. No outbursts. These contestants deserve
concentration when they are up against the clock.

I will ask you if you`re ready to play. A 100 seconds on the clock, in a
final push to win control of the Senate for Republicans, a last minute
infusion of $6.5 million into six competitive races was provided by this
week by these well-known billionaire brothers -- John.

NICHOLS: Koch brothers.

KORNACKI: Koch brothers for 100 points. Next week this Kansas born person
is 1996 presidential nominee --

NICHOLS: Bob Dole.

KORNACKI: Dole completed a tour of Kansas` 105 counties, 100 points for

KORNACKI: After a report from the "Associated Press" this week, lawmakers
are scrambling to close a loophole that allows former Nazis living in the
United States to collect what, John?

NICHOLS: Social security.

KORNACKI: This 1990`s political scandal icon created an internet frenzy
when she joined Twitter -- Wesley.

LOWERY: Monica Lewinsky.

KORNACKI: Monica Lewinsky is correct. Stop the clock. You`ve triggered
our bonus question. This is a risk free proposition. If you will
correctly identify who says this, you will get 100 points. Please direct
your attention to Mr. Jeffrey Wright.


JEFFREY WRIGHT: In his book animal farm, this 20th Century British
novelist wrote all animals are equal. Some animals are more equal than


LOWERY: George Orwell.

KORNACKI: Correct. Give that man an extra 100 points. Next, 100 point
toss up question, quote, "More weed, less war is a tag line of a new series
of YouTube ads in support of the libertarian candidate running against
Senator Kay Hagan in this city, North Carolina.

LOWERY: North Carolina.

KORNACKI: North Carolina. Wesley ties the game, 100-point toss up, John
Kerry announced this week that this former senator in 1984 --

NICHOLS: Gary Heart.

KORNACKI: A 100-point toss up, the Republican Governor`s Association
announced Thursday night -- David.

AVELLA: Maryland.

KORNACKI: Incorrect. I`ll complete the question. Spending an additional
$1 million --

NICHOLS: Scott Walker.

KORNACKI: Scott Walker won election in Wisconsin. Correct. A 100 point
toss up, quote, "realistically my political career is probably over when
asked about his career --

NICHOLS: Anthony Wiener.

KORNACKI: John in the lead with 600. Wesley fairly close with 300.
David, negative 100, but good news to you, David. We`re moving to the 200
round. The questions are twice as hard and twice as valuable, 100 seconds
back on the clock. After Conan O`Brien joked on Twitter that he would
dress as her for Halloween --

AVELLA: Madeline Albright.

KORNACKI: An FBI agent who headed up the famous ab-scam sting operation in
the late 70s and 80s was in South Dakota this week to campaign for this --

AVELLA: Pressler.

KORNACKI: That`s right. Responding to complaints from the Chinese
government, smooth jazz saxophonist, Kenny G, deleted a Twitter photo of
himself at a pro-democracy protest where? Wesley?

LOWERY: Hong Kong.

KORNACKI: Correct, 200 points for Wesley. Close game here, 61 years after
she became the first British monarch to insist that her coronation be

NICHOLS: Queen Elizabeth II

KORNACKI: Incorrect. I`ll complete the question for the others. Queen
Elizabeth sent her first message via this social networking site this week.

AVELLA: Twitter.

KORNACKI: Correct. Stop the clock. That is our use it or lose it bonus
question. Here is how it works. I have a follow-up question related in
some way to the answer you just answered. You can get 200 points, if
you`re right get an extra 200 points, but if you`re wrong, you will lose
200 points. I have the question, will you lose or use it.

AVELLA: I will lose it.

KORNACKI: A 200 point toss up, Thursday Iowa Republican Senate candidate -

LOWREY: Des Moines Register.

KORNACKI: With the Des Moines Register. Wesley in the lead there. A 200
point toss up asking quote, "why not the best." This conservative pundit
and "Weekly Standard" editor floated a possible --

AVELLA: Billy Crystal.

KORNACKI: Greg Abbott, the Republican nominee for governor of Texas was
endorsed this week by --

AVELLA: Chuck Norris.

KORNACKI: The four security guards convicted in federal court this week of
killing 14 Iraqis in 2007 were employed by this.

NICHOLS: Black Water.

KORNACKI: John, 200 additional points for him. We have a barn burner
here. David moving into the lead, surging into the league. Wesley right
behind him at 700.

This is a very 300 point round here. We will dim the lights for a drama
effect. This is an independent report release Wednesday found that
thousands of students, including its elite college basketball program were

LOWERY: In fake classes at the University of North Carolina.

KORNACKI: Arizona`s sheriff famous for his hard immigration presented
underwear to this prime time HLN host.

NICHOLS: Take a chance on Nancy Grace.

KORNACKI: You are correct, 300 points for John. Can make up a lot of
ground quickly. California Governor Jerry Brown said this week that when
his second term ends, he would consider returning to his old job of --

NICHOLS: Oakland.

KORNACKI: John, back into the lead at 1,200. On Tuesday, the conservative
Washington Free Beacon attacks this embattled Democratic senator over his
1985 thesis on the topic of school desegregation?

Time, no one knew that was Senator Mark Prior of Arkansas. New ranking
from the Bureau of Labor statistics this week show that this state has the
highest unemployment rate in the nation as its Republican governor --

AVELLA: Georgia.

KORNACKI: David at 1,200 with that tied for the lead. Congressman Mike
Mishu tied with this controversial named governor. David?

AVELLA: La Paige.

KORNACKI: Correct. The Democratic independent ticket seeking to oust Sean
Parnell received an unlikely endorsement this week.

AVELLA: Sarah Palin.

KORNACKI: David wins the game at the wire with 1,800 points! What an
exciting game that was.

ANNOUNCER: As our champion, your name will be engraved using the finest
sharpie ink on the stain resistant "Up Against The Clock" and 1988 film
"Cocoon II, The Return" personally autographed.

And you`ll get to play at our jackpot round for today`s grand prize, a $50
gift certificate to food cart in downtown Manhattan, operated by a former
chef of the Russian tea room. I had it for lunch today. Delicious. Enjoy
the meal and congratulations. Back to you, Steve.

KORNACKI: All right, David, congratulations. You`ll add that name to your
mug. Just don`t drink from t it is highly toxic.

AVELLA: Got it.

KORNACKI: Jackpot bonus question to win that $50 certificate. Ben
Bradlee, legendary "Washington Post" editor who passed away earlier this
week was the only person for years besides Woodward and Carl Bernstein to
know the identity of Deep Throat. But his identity was revealed upon the
death of whom, going to need an answer.

AVELLA: Richard Nixon.

KORNACKI: Incorrect. John knows it.

NICHOLS: Well, the guy was Mark Felt.

KORNACKI: Correct. That`s for posterity. Congratulations on that.

NICHOLS: Like French fries?

KORNACKI: Sure, we`ll give you fries after the show. David, you may be
eligible for a tour of champions. We`ll wait and see. John, Wesley, thank
you for playing. You both get the home edition. We`ll be back to wrap up
the show after this.


KORNACKI: It`s that time we find out what our guests know that they didn`t
know when the week began. John, we`ll start with you.

AVELLA: New York has made yogurt its official state snack. Yogurt, when
in Rome, do as the Romans.

KORNACKI: I called you John. This is David.

NICHOLS: This I know, Rick Wyland in South Dakota literally has the best
music videos ever in politics. I encourage people to Google him and see
him walking down a country road playing a guitar.

KORNACKI: Yes. You can -- it`s kind of hokie and then you watch it, it`s
not that bad.

NICHOLS: The songs are much more detailed than most political party

KORNACKI: That`s true. Wesley?

LOWERY: The story that I week that I loved, "Boston Globe," probably my
favorite story of the cycle so far, understated his military service,
Medals for Valor and his parents didn`t even know, just fun, interesting
story. I definitely want to give that a shout out.

KORNACKI: That`s one of those I was reading that in the Globe reporter.
Candidate won`t admit to -- they`ve got to play it. No, they didn`t.

You never see that. Anyway, thanks to John Nichols, Wesley Lowery, David
Avella for joining us. We`ll be back here tomorrow morning 8:00am Eastern
Time. "MELISSA HARRIS PERRY" is coming up. Thanks for coming up and see
you tomorrow.



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