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PoliticsNation,Tuesday, December 2nd, 2014

Read the transcript from the Tuesday show

December 2, 2014

Guest: Maria Teresa Kumar, Bill Press, Krystal Ball, Chuck Nice, Caroline
Modarressy-Tehrani, Jeffrey Johnson; Dave Zirin

REVEREND AL SHARPTON, MSNBC HOST: Good evening, Ed. And thanks to you for
tuning in.

Tonight`s lead, why we need to change how police serve and protect our
communities. The Obama administration has launched a national effort to
address what`s become the civil rights issue of our time. And last week`s
police shooting death of this young man in Cleveland, 12-year-old Tamir
Rice, shows why this is such an important step.

A 911 caller reported seeing him waving and pointing a gun outside a
recreation center. But said it was probably fake.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s probably fake. But, you know what, it`s scaring
the (bleep) out of me. He`s probably a juvenile, you know. He`s pulling


SHARPTON: The caller was right. It was fake, a pellet gun, and he said
that Rice was probably a juvenile. But here`s what the police dispatcher
told the officers heading towards the scene.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE DISPATCHER: There`s a black male sitting on the
swings. He is wearing a camouflage hat, a gray jacket with black sleeves.
He keeps pulling a gun out of his pants and pointing it at people.


SHARPTON: No mention that the gun might be fake. No mention that Rice was
probably a juvenile. And then the police response gets even worse. Watch
what happens on surveillance video just as the police car pulls up to Rice.


SHARPTON: Police shoot Rice less than two seconds after arriving on the
scene leaving him fighting for his life, less than two seconds, and listen
to the officer`s call to dispatch right after they shot Rice.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Shots fired, male down, black male, maybe 20.


SHARPTON: Maybe 20. Look at him. Tamir Rice was 12 years old. He was in
the sixth grade. But in under two seconds, police concluded he was a 20-
year-old man threatening people`s lives and decided to fire.

Police are now investigating the shooting and the officers involved are on
paid leave. And tomorrow Tamir Rice will be laid to rest.

Joining me now are Cleveland city councilman Jeffrey Johnson and former
prosecutor and MSNBC contributor Faith Jenkins. Thank you both for being
here this evening.



SHARPTON: Councilman, two seconds is all it took these officers to decide
Rice was a threat? What`s your reaction?

JOHNSON: Well, Reverend, thank you for having me tonight.

It looks like a drive-by where they just didn`t take no time. Their feet
was barely on the ground when the officer shot twice. Our reaction is
anger and determination not to let this happen again and to make sure that
we do the proper review. But there was no assessment. There was no
discernment of whether there was actually a threat and anything said
otherwise is just not true.

SHARPTON: Faith, you know, the video raises some serious questions about
the initial police account of the shooting. Po police said quote "upon
arrival on scene officers located the suspect and advised him to raise his
hands. The suspect did not comply with the officer`s orders and reached to
his waistband for the gun. Shots were fired and the suspect was struck in
the torso." Does that match what you`re seeing on this video?

JENKINS: Well, it doesn`t. Did all that have happen within two seconds,
when this shooting occurred? When you look at this case, you look at the
case of John Crawford, who was shot and killed in Walmart with a toy gun,
you look at the case of Eric Garner who died in New York as a result of a
chokehold by the police.

We have to start asking some questions. These incidents aren`t new, Rev.
It`s just the proliferation of videotape and evidence to show how certain
police officers are policing in African-American communities.

I don`t think these officers showed up that day -- by the way, the office
had been on the force less than a year, only eight months. I don`t think
he showed up that day and said, you know what, I want to kill someone
today. But the issue is how they react and respond when it`s a young
African-American man and why are you -- they need the -- it`s the issue of
training. Because the issue is why are you not showing up and deescalating
situations instead of escalating them? Why can`t you make an assessment in
that moment and see, this is a child. Why can`t you make an assessment in
that moment and figure out this gun is not real? But instead, in two
seconds they take someone`s life.

So we have to start asking the questions, how are we going to deal with
this issue when we come back and the argument is these police officers,
they`re acting in good faith. That`s not good enough anymore when so many
of our young, black kids are being killed.

SHARPTON: Well Councilman, they didn`t only not say they were operating in
good faith, as faith here has said, at a press conference last week, the
deputy police chief talked more about the commands the officer gave.


were given to show your hands by Officer Loman as he pulled up to the
gazebo there. They were out the door. His door was open as he pulled up
and he was yelling three commands, he yelled three times as they pulled up.


SHARPTON: Three commands. He yelled three times as they pulled up,
councilman. Let me play, again, the video.



SHARPTON: Now how could he in that amount of time have given three

JOHNSON: Reverend, no way. I mean, he had to be literally yelling out the
window as the car drove up. And, you know, we need to look at the veteran
police officer who actually chose to put the vehicle two feet from Tamir
rather than further back so that they could get out and assess before they
moved forward to determine a threat.

So both officers, in my opinion, the veteran who put the rookie right there
in front of Tamir, for him with his inexperience to just shoot. So we
don`t buy that in Cleveland. We don`t buy that they sat back and made
these demands and Tamir ignored them. We don`t believe Tamir had had
enough time to be able to assess what was going on.

SHARPTON: Now, Faith, did they lie yet? Did they lie here? We don`t
know. but another disturbing fact about the case is what happened after
Rice was shot. He was shot twice in the stomach at point blank a range by
a rookie officer Timothy Loman. Neither Loman nor his partner provided
Rice first aid immediately after he was shot. In fact, Tamir Rice was
laying on the ground suffering for 3:49 until another team of officers
arrived on the scene and started delivering first aid. At that point
Loman`s partners helped administer first aid.

Faith, have you heard any explanation why the officers didn`t try to save
Tamir`s life in those first four minutes?

JENKINS: well, I don`t think there is a --

SHARPTON: First four minutes, I should say.

JENKINS: Right, four minutes. And that`s a long time. When you think
about someone lying on the ground after being shot and dying, that`s a long
time for a police officer, a member -- he`s a public servant. Let`s not
forget what police officers are there to do, serve the public, to let that
child lie on the ground and die. It remind me what have we witnessed with
Eric Garner in New York, the man who died as a result of the chokehold, how
he begged and he said, I cannot breathe, repeatedly. And as he lie on the
ground, no one rendered him aid and he died later just like this young man.

We have to start realizing that good police officers can make a bad
decision in a moment, Rev. That does not mean that they are bad people,
but when they make the decision in that moment, they have to be held
accountable. We cannot continue to let our young black men die at the
hands of police officers and they not be held accountable.

SHARPTON: You know, councilman, officer Loman`s father, a former police
officer, says his son had no other option but to shoot Tamir Rice. The
Cleveland "Plain Dealer" reports Loman`s father says his son didn`t know
whether or not the gun was fake, but decided he had to act. Quote, "I was
right there and he went for the gun," Fred Loman`s recalled his son saying.
"I had no choice."

If this is his defense, how will it play out in an investigation moving
forward, Councilman?

JOHNSON: First of all, I think they need -- they will be looking at
whether the officer made the right judgment on how they positioned
themselves. The training would not have said to do what they did. It was
bum rushing Tamir. It`s almost like -- it continues to be this us versus
them mentality where it`s really about either kill or be killed and that`s
the kind of mentality.

So we are going to be looking at the whole notion of why can they came, why
they came so close to Tamir and why they didn`t position themselves to make
the assessment, the discernment rather than -- it`s almost automatically
they felt that he was a threat and they were going to take out that threat.
And that is unacceptable behavior by those of us who are training these
officers to serve and protect.

SHARPTON: And let me say, I agree with Faith that sometimes good officers
can make bad calls. Sometimes people make mistakes. I don`t believe all
police come in with a predetermined attitude that they came to kill. But
they must be held accountable. And let us not forget in all of these cases
we`re talking about people losing their lives. People have human value.
They should not just die and no one cares and no one held accountable.

JOHNSON: Innocent people.

SHARPTON: Councilman Jeffrey Johnson and Faith Jenkins, I want to thank
you both for your time tonight.


JOHNSON: Thank you, Reverend.

SHARPTON: Coming up, Ray Rice speaks for the first time since that
infamous elevator video emerged several weeks ago.


RAY RICE, NFL PLAYER: My wife, my daughter, my family to -- we all want
our lives back.


SHARPTON: Jeb Bush is taking on the tea party. But can his strategy
actually work, or will it backfire?

And the growing controversy over the St. Louis Rams` hands up statement.
What police are saying and what the team is denying.

It`s all ahead. Please stay with us.


SHARPTON: Straight ahead, Ray Rice breaks his silence on life after his
punch, on getting his life back and how his daughter might learn about his
past next.


SHARPTON: NFL star Ray Rice is breaking his silence. Yesterday his
tearful wife, Janay, spoke out. Now ray is opening up to Matt Lauer about
that infamous video of him knocking Janay out in an elevator.


RICE: Domestic violence is a real issue in society, you know. We can take
one bad night and it just happened to be on video but we are truly sorry to
the people that`s really going through it, you know, it`s a real problem
and I know when the time is right. I know my wife wants to help. I know I
want the help.

MATT LAUER, ABC NEWS ANCHOR: I have to ask her directly. I said, Janay,
other that instant we saw on that videotape, was there ever a moment in
this marriage or this relationship before or after that where you were the
victim of abuse?

RICE: And I understand that. And I truly understand that. And one thing
you learn is that, you know, we weren`t in a perfect relationship. No
relationship is perfect. We`ve had arguments, but when you talk about
abuse, you know, that`s something that we know we`ve never crossed that
path. But then did we say things to each other that we want to take back
at times? Yes, we crossed that line before but it never got to an
altercation where it went that far, you know, that was just very
uncharacteristic of myself. I take responsibility. That was very


SHARPTON: He says it was one bad night and he takes full responsibility
for what happened.


RICE: This is something as a man you have to own and, you know, we`re
heartily sorry and I`m heartily sorry for everything that, you know, I have
put my family through. I still have to live every day, go take my daughter
to school. She`s going to grow up and the way the Internet works now,
she`s going to Google her father`s name and the first thing that will come
up is -- who knows what will come up.

LAUER: Not the highlights from the field.

RICE: Not at all. That`s the reality of it. And that`s what I`m more
worried about fixing is that I want my wife, my daughter, my family to --
we all just want to gravitate, we all want our lives back.


SHARPTON: He wants his life back, but will another team and the fans get
past that video?


RICE: I think that, you know, they will have to be willing to, you know,
look deeper into who I am and realize that me and my wife had one bad night
and I took full responsibility for it. And one thing about my punishment
and everything going along with anything that happened is that I`ve
accepted it. I went fully forward with it. I never complained. I never
did anything like that. I took full responsibility for everything that I
did and the only thing I can hope for and wish for is a second chance.


SHARPTON: He`s cleared to play, but should he get another chance? Will he
get one? And how might this impact the issue of domestic violence in

Joining me now is Dave Zirin, sports editor for "the Nation." Thanks for
being here.

DAVE ZIRIN, SPORTS EDITOR, THE NATION: It`s great to be here, Reverend.

SHARPTON: Dave, what`s your reaction to that interview?

ZIRIN: Well, my reaction is that Ray Rice is going through this hell of
his own making for two reasons. And those reasons have nothing to do with
actually removing Janay Rice from consciousness in that elevator.

He is going through this because one, he was caught on videotape and, two,
the chickens are coming home to roost on decades of the national football
league covering up violence against women.

And I mean, Roger Goodell, the commissioner of the NFL, he needs to answer
for the institutional cover-ups that have taken place in the national
football league, 56 arrests of NFL players on domestic violence charges.

SHARPTON: How many?

ZIRIN: Fifty six under Roger Goodell`s tenure.

SHARPTON: So you seem -- Dave, let me push on this. You seem to be seeing
this as an NFL issue. You use the term cover-up.

ZIRIN: Yes, because the NFL actually does not have a domestic violence
epidemic. The rates of domestic violence arrests in the NFL are actually
much less than domestic violence rates in the United States.

I mean, the United States has a domestic violence problem and it myth
partner violence problem. The NFL has a cover-up problem that needs to be
answered for. And Ray Rice has been made the face of domestic violence.

And I`m wary of this because there`s something that this country does of
making young black men the face of these violent, uncontrollable acts. And
it`s very difficult to not see connective tissue between the ways Ray Rice
has been put forward on this issue and what you were talking about the last
segment, Tamir Rice, Michael Brown, Eric Garner and the criminalization of
black men.

And frankly, that the way the United States wants to see the savage in
black men is also, I think, at the root of why the NFL is the most popular
pastime in this country as well.

SHARPTON: You know, another thing Ray Rice talked about in a press
conference back in may, Janay apologized for the incident, but Ray did not
apologize to her. Listen to what he says about that.


RICE: I`ll be honest. We were nervous. I was nervous. And that was the
first time we were available to speak. And I made a horrendous mistake not
apologizing to my wife. We were going in, we were given what to speak
about. It wasn`t truly coming from us, if you can understand. But, I, you
know, made that clear the last time I was able to speak that my wife is an
angel. She can do no wrong. I take full responsibility for my actions.


SHARPTON: He says, Dave, that he was given what to say by the ravens.
Janay says the same thing. Do you think he has done enough to be given
another chance to play, Dave?

ZIRIN: Well, in the NFL it`s like you can look at a line graph and frankly
are where the line meets where the rubber hits the road is his ability to
play. He had a very poor season last year by his own standards. And
whether an NFL team wants to weather the publicity. So that is a question
that we will see. I mean, time will tell whether he gets that chance.

But I do have to say this, though, I mean, he made reference to it, you
asked about it. To me the most horrific thing that I`ve heard in this
whole episode, the number one most horrific thing, of course, is what we
see on the videotape. Number two is the idea of the Ravens actually spoon
feeding lines particularly to Janay Rice to say that she took
responsibility for what happened. She says they told her to say that.
That is criminal in and of itself. And the Ravens kept that on their
twitter feed until just a couple of months ago. They kept it on their
twitter feed all summer. Janay Rice apologizes for her part in what took

And the third thing, which is so terrible, Roger Goodell actually making
Ray Rice and Janay Rice sit down in front of him. you know, that is abuser
and survivor in front of Roger Goodell and basically begging for his job.
I mean, the idea you would do a practice like that. I mean, maybe it made
sense in the 1950s. It`s unconscionable that it would happen in 2014.

SHARPTON: Dave Zirin, what do you think should happen to Ravens and

ZIRIN: Well, I mean, one, I`m stunned Roger Goodell is still employed as
NFL commissioner. Two, I`m wondering why he`s not being indicted for
perjury right now because in Ray Rice`s arbitration case Roger Goodell
swore on a bible that Janay Rice said things to him that she denied, that
Ray Rice denied, and that witnesses denied.

And so the idea that Ray Rice would lie over a bible to a federal judge
Barbara Jones and he`s still employed and there aren`t perjury machinations
happening against him, that really surprises me. As for the Ravens, they
should absolutely be sanctioned, be fined, be punished in some way, shape
or form, for conduct unbecoming.

SHARPTON: Dave Zirin, thank you for your time tonight.

ZIRIN: Thank you.

SHARPTON: Still ahead, the uproar over the St. Louis Rams` protest on
Ferguson. What is really behind it? What is it really all about?

Also, will Republicans try to defund Air Force One? The GOP attack on
President Obama`s executive action has gone from bad to absurd.

But first, did you know that Mitch McConnell is a comedian? Me neither.
But he`s the punch line in tonight`s "Got You."


SHARPTON: Republican Senate leader Mitch McConnell is a lot of things, but
I never knew he was a stand-up comedian. Check out Mitch McConnell`s
latest joke about immigration reform.


SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R), KENTUCKY: I think we ought to take it up one
piece at a time and it begins with finally once and for all securing the


SHARPTON: Hilarious. That`s a good one especially because one piece at a
time is exactly what President Obama proposed last year.


thing up into five pieces, as long as all five pieces get done, I don`t
care what it looks like as long as it`s delivering on those core values we
talk about.


SHARPTON: Senator McConnell must be joking, right? Because Republicans
didn`t take president Obama up on that offer and the laughs just kept on
coming from McConnell. He`s also said this about immigration reform.


MCCONNELL: I think we don`t do comprehensive well. Look at Obamacare.


SHARPTON: He`ll be here all week, folks. This has got to be a joke
because we`re actually doing comprehensive health care, great, great. With
open enrollment under way for 2015, there have been over 260,000 sign-ups
on so far and nearly half of those signups are brand-new
customers. Health care reform is working.

Is there anything you`d like to add, Senator McConnell? He`s so funny we
forgot to laugh. Nice try but we "Got You."


SHARPTON: For republicans fighting the President`s supposed tyranny on
immigration, today was like Ronald Reagan`s birthday and a payroll tax
holiday rolled into one. House republicans held two high-profile hearings
on President Obama`s executive action. And in the morning the White House
had to hear how the house GOP had huddled behind closed doors to hatch
their plot to stop the President. All day long they let the rhetoric fly.
One upping each other with anger and practiced outrage.


UNIDENTIFIED MAN: He wants to circumvent the rule of law.

REP. STEVE KING (R), IOWAN: Presidential tantrum to be able to carry out
your lawless, unconstitutional act.

REP. MIKE MCCAIN (R), TEXAS: The President`s unilateral actions to bypass
Congress undermines the constitution and threaten our democracy.

REP. BOB GOODLATTE (R), VIRGINIA: By acting lawlessly and assuming
legislative power, the Obama administration is driving full speed ahead to
a constitutional crisis.

REP. LAMAR SMITH (R), TEXAS: This amounts to a declaration of war against
American workers.


SHARPTON: But the big question today, do republicans have an actual plan
to do something, anything beyond launching verbal attacks? Will they shut
down government? Will they sue the President? Today Speaker Boehner said,
sure, maybe.


REP. JOHN BOEHNER (R), OHIO: We`re looking at a number of options in terms
of how do we address this. Now, this is a serious breach of our
constitution. It`s a serious threat to our system of government.

LUKE RUSSERT, NBC NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Is it off the table, sir? So is it
off the table? So, it`s not on the table?


SHARPTON: That table is more jam-packed than your Thanksgiving buffet.
Republicans have talked about a lawsuit, a shutdown, censure and even
impeachment. And now get this, a Washington Post reported tweets that GOP
Congressman Tim Huelskamp tells me the House should decrease funds for Air
Force One and White House staff as a response to immigration action. His
plane? They want to go after his plane now. I wonder what this or any
president would say about that.


UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Get off my plane.


SHARPTON: Sorry, republicans, but that idea won`t fly.

Joining me now are Maria Teresa Kumar and Bill Press. Thank you both for
being here.



SHARPTON: Bill, cutting off funds for Air Force One? I mean, are they
serious? Is this how far they`ve fallen?

PRESS: I`m sorry, Reverend, you stole the best line which is that that
idea ain`t going to fly. I mean, look, first of all, the American people
republican or democrat, they want their president to be safe, they want
their president to be protected. It`s more than just that person. It`s
the whole prestige and, you know, honor of the United States of America
that just shows, I think, how worthless this bunch of clowns among the
republicans in Congress is today. And you touched on it. They don`t have
any plan of their own. They`re suppressing this plan, they don`t like that
come up with their own plan, instead they come up with all these crazy
ideas when the one thing that they could do to stop President Obama in his
trucks is pass an immigration bill. That`s the one thing they can do and
that`s the one thing they won`t do.

SHARPTON: Maria, they`re also talking about defunding White House staff.
I mean, should the gardener be on high alert?

KUMAR: I mean, what Bill say is absolutely right. Is the fact that what
they`re trying to do is they`re trying to undress President Obama. What
they`re really doing is undressing the presidency and what we stand for.
And who are they going to lay off at the end of the day? I mean, a lot of
these folks are every day working people that`s like everybody else.
That`s more than just being symbolic, it`s going after the middle class
once again. That`s one of good optic. And more importantly, what`s your
plan b? That`s your plan B? To basically take away the plane and White
House staff? That`s ridiculous. As Bill Press says, they have a bill in
front of them that they can actually go ahead and put on the floor for a
vote and they`re choosing not to. So, they don`t want to do the work, they
want to come out with the shenanigans, and you know, sound bites at the end
of the day, they don`t want to do the work which is hard, which is
negotiate with the president. Which is actually make sure that you can`t
have everything that you`ve made possibly want and if it`s a legislation
but you have to negotiate.

SHARPTON: Well, Bill, you know, the republicans big idea for punishing the
President is over his executive action is censure. Listen.

PRESS: Right.


UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Number one, I think we should censure the President of
the United States. I think it`s unfortunate that he did this.

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Could be a censure for the President of the United
States. That`s not happened in more than a century and that would be at
least a direct message to the president.

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: There are, as the piece mentioned, spending measures.
The President can be censured. He can be sued by the Congress.


SHARPTON: Bill, what do you make out of this, I mean, are they for real?

PRESS: Again, these are options that are not real options. I mean, they
just came up with these crazy ideas as opposed to doing their job. But if
you look at censure, first of all, the constitution does not provide for
the legislative branch to censure the executive branch. So, you just
cannot do it. Cannot do it. Secondly, were they to censure for the
President for what? For doing his job? I mean, that`s all they could say.
If the Congress won`t act then the President has to. And the President has
legally gone as far as he could go. There are a lot of us that wish he had
gone further with his executive order.


PRESS: He didn`t because he wanted to stay within the law. You know,
what? This is just fireworks. This is just mounting, they`re just
mouthing off. They`re going to do nothing.

SHARPTON: But Maria, here`s the republican problem, a new Gallup poll
shows President Obama`s approval rating among Hispanic is now 68 percent.
It`s gone up 10 percent since he announced the executive action. Isn`t
this the real problem for republicans, who they really want to alienate
millions of Hispanic voters on immigration?

KUMAR: Well, that`s the thing. You`re trying to figure out what their
long-term strategy is. And they keep forgetting that this is not about the
President. This is about where we are in America and the fact that we have
changing demographics and we have a broken immigration system where
millions of American families are suffering and they don`t want to fix the
problem because they keep trying to make it about him and it`s not. And if
they want to get to the White House in 2016, this quicker they basically
put this executive action to rest, the quicker they pass legislation, then
all of a sudden, they can focus on the other issues that American-Latinos
care about which are the rest of Americans care about. Job creation, small
business creation, talking about taxes, talking about education. If they
can put this behind them in a real leadership sort of way. Then they can
actually have a shot and actually cultivating this new generation of

SHARPTON: Bill, I want you to give me your view on the politics of it.
How can they expect long term to win national elections alienating the
Latino and Hispanic voters in this country?

KUMAR: Well, Maria Teresa is actually right. They cannot win the White
House the way they are going. The electro votes are just not there, the
Latino population we know is the greatest -- is the fastest growing block
of the American electorate. They are now in an open warfare with the
Latino community. They are basically saying we`re not -- it`s not that we
just disagree with President Obama, we don`t want to do anything at all
about the immigration problem. There is this bill that passed the Senate
over a year ago with 14 republican senators supporting it. If that bill
were brought up in the House today, it would pass the House but John
Boehner won`t do it. So, you know, from a political point of view as a
democrat, I say keep going, republicans. You are just exactly doing what
democrats want.

SHARPTON: Well, it appears to me that the republicans are poised to
overreach and we`ll be here watching. Maria Teresa Kumar and Bill Press,
thank you for your time tonight.

PRESS: Thank you, Rev.

KUMAR: Thank you, Reverend.

SHARPTON: Straight ahead, this is about to get fun! Jeb Bush is taking on
the Tea Party. Plus, the St. Louis Rams hands up controversy grows. What
does the new apology debate say about the case? And why is Jennifer
Aniston`s new role raising questions about celebrities and image?
Conversation nation, next.


SHARPTON: We`re back with "Conversation Nation." Joining us tonight,
MSNBC`s Krystal Ball, comedian Chuck Nice, and HuffPost Live host Caroline
Modarressy-Tehrani. Thank you all for being here.

KRYSTAL BALL, MSNBC HOST, "THE CYCLE": Thanks for having us, Rev.

SHARPTON: We start with the uproar over the St. Louis Rams protest. St.
Louis police called the Rams players` "Hands Up" protest in support of
Ferguson protesters tasteless, offensive, and inflammatory. The St. Louis
police chief claims the Rams official apologized, but the team is denying
any apology was made. This shows the deep division these cases had
nationally, and why so many people are looking for an outlet. Krystal, do
you have any problem with this protests?

BALL: Absolutely not. And I think it`s so interesting that discussion of
her whether or not an apology was made. In so many ways, it`s emblematic
of the way that we`re having this totally different discussion where people
are seeing what happened in Ferguson in the ongoing protests, through their
own lens of how they understand the world and this is just another example
of that kind of miscommunication.


CHUCK NICE, COMEDIAN: I don`t know, Rev. I don`t know. I mean, I`m just
saying there`s a time to, you know, protest and make political statements
and there`s a time not to. I don`t know.


SHARPTON: Caroline?

think it`s curious -- that was very good.

SHARPTON: Pun-intended.

MODARRESSY-TEHRANI: It`s curious that, you know, that the Police
Department are spending so much time focusing on the perfectly reasonable
protest and, you know, of the Rams because haven`t they got enough to deal
with? I.e., their police force. Sixty seven percent of the folks in the
community is African-American, 50 police officers, white, three African-
American. Instead of looking for an apology for something, perfectly
reasonable, why didn`t they start looking at their own back door?

SHARPTON: But Krystal, I`ve been out there since day one when the
grandfather called me. And it`s very tense, very emotional, very
passionate. And this play is a bear, I mean, these could be relatives of
theirs involved, they see themselves. And whether one agrees with their
stand or not, it has clearly been said that their hands were up. Others
contradicted but there`s been several have said that. So, what is the big
issue here if people want to express themselves?

BALL: Right. Well, and to me it`s so much less about the specific
details, while those details are vitally important to this case and this
family and this community, but really we`re talking about a national
conversation here.

SHARPTON: Oh, yes.

BALL: And we know the statistics, we know the way that people of color are
impacted in a different way by policing frequently across the country. So
when you`re doing that symbolic gesture, yes, it`s about Michael Brown but
it`s about a bigger conversation.

SHARPTON: It`s all over the country. I just did the 12-year-old Tamir in
Cleveland and Eric Garner in New York --

BALL: Exactly.

SHARPTON: And hands-up was a part of that. I think it`s a symbol of where
we are. But now let me get to politics. Jeb Bush is taking on the Tea
Party. He was speaking at a "Wall Street Journal" event and said he will
make a decision on running for president in short order and then he said


UNIDENTIFIED MAN: I kind of know how a republican can win, whether it`s me
or somebody else and it has to be much more uplifting, much more positive.
Much more willing to, you know, to be practical now in Washington world
lose the primary to win the general without violating your principles.


SHARPTON: Caroline, this is getting a lot of attention. Can this even
work with this Republican Party?

MODARRESSY-TEHRANI: I`m going to tell you something, I feel sorry for Jeb
Bush and I`ll tell you why. Because if that is the way that he thinks he`s
going to be running. That I`m really sorry for him. Because this isn`t
the Republican Party he is dealing with. Like this is on the day that John
Boehner basically came out and said, oh, well, maybe -- a government
shutdown, maybe we don`t know in March, maybe we`ll think about pulling
funding for the Department of Homeland Security -- the immigration bill you
know, in flags. I mean, this isn`t the Republican Party that is open to
being uplifting at the moment. So, he`s waiting around for that to happen.
I feel very sorry.

SHARPTON: This party being uplifting, this party you`ve got to lose to win
the general. I thought Jeb was giving you a lot of new material for you


NICE: Without a doubt. Because he`s like, oh, we have to be much more
uplifting, we have to be much more practical willing to compromise, in
other words, we can`t be republican is basically what he`s saying. So, how
do you win the republican nomination? Don`t be a republican. That`s not
going to work.

SHARPTON: Krystal, but it`s a serious point.

BALL: Well, and I couldn`t get past the basic, you know, sort of factual
piece here of, you sort of have to win the primary to get to the general

NICE: Yes.

BALL: So, that`s a little bit of a problem. And I think his point is up
that, in order to win the republican primary, both John McCain and Mitt
Romney, they`ve had to take these positions particularly on immigration.

NICE: Right.

BALL: That had been at odds with the American people in the rising Latino
demographic. He`s right. It`s an impossible puzzle to solve.

SHARPTON: I`m met Jeb Bush a few times during the education stuff and all,
and some issues that were raised in Florida and I think that he`s really
trying to navigate around how hard it is in this new Tea Party dominated

BALL: He wrote his book that talked about immigration. And immediately
sort of stumbled down at the gates in terms of how we talked about it
because he ended up in a different spot where the rest of the Republican
Party was. That`s an issue for him. He has got issues in terms of his
supportive common core and education. He`s really already come out on a
couple of pieces, very much at odds with the base.

SHARPTON: But is he like kind of forecasting the rings he`s going to have
to deal with, Caroline?

MODARRESSY-TEHRANI: I mean, I think he`ll be very smart if he is doing
that. And I think that you know, he is a smart guy --


NICE: Except it doesn`t work with the base. That`s the only problem.
Proof is in the pudding. He`s already trailing in the polls.

MODARRESSY-TEHRANI: It`s bad if you`re already trying to lower
expectations this far out.

SHARPTON: All right. Everybody, please stay with me. Up next,
controversy over a new trend in movies. Does Hollywood think actresses
need to be, quote, "ugly," in order to look like the rest of us? Stay with


SHARPTON: We`re back with our panel. Krystal, Chuck and Caroline. Let`s
talk about Jennifer Aniston`s new movie role. In her new movie "Kate" she
plays a woman addicted to painkillers, gone is the glamorous movie starlet.
And many critics are praising her for her transformation. Others aren`t so
impressed. One blogger saying, quote, "the trouble is when actors are
praised to the heavens for their bravery and their courage in looking like,
well, actual humans is pretty darned condescending to the actual humans who
are paying good money to watch them on screen." Krystal?

BALL: You know, this is a thought provoking piece but I totally 100
percent disagree. Because what we see as women is this impossible, perfect
ideal of a person on screen. That is what we normally get. And we get
that in catalogs, and we get that on the internet, and we get that when
we`re shopping. So, it`s so refreshing, when you have a person like
Jennifer Aniston who is gorgeous, who goes totally bear with no makeup, and
you say, okay, she is a beautiful person but she is also an attainable
person, she`s not this impossible perfect ideal. So, we`re not constantly
comparing herself to something that`s really isn`t --

SHARPTON: Will it sell in the market, Chuck?

NICE: Well, you know, it seems to have in the past, if you think about,
you know, Charlize Theron doing the monster. But the thing is, they work
for men, too. You know, when guys gain tons of weight, when Christian Bale
gains big and fat or loses a ton of weight, everybody says, oh, my God, how
amazing. You know, what, none of this is acting, though. That`s my thing.

BALL: That`s a discipline to it though.

MODARRESSY-TEHRANI: The way they talk about the transformation, Jennifer
Aniston took her makeup off. Come along, people. Let`s get some
perspective. Transformation. I mean, Charlize put on, you know, she gains
30 pounds, she puts a little prosthetics. That is a physical
transformation. Jennifer Aniston taking off makeup and then asking us to
celebrate at the same time.


BALL: Sure. It`s a statement on our culture though that doing such a
thing as going without makeup is a revolutionary thing to do.



NICE: I`m just going to say, I`m wearing a makeup right now and I`m very
happy that I am.


SHARPTON: Jennifer Aniston says she doesn`t believe that to win an Oscar
that you have to go ugly. Do you agree?

BALL: Sure, I mean, it`s obviously about the performance overall and the
character that you play. But I do think that there is something to the
fact that you`ve transformed yourself, you become such different character
that you almost --

NICE: It doesn`t always happen with the acting though. Because think of
Liz Taylor and who`s afraid of the -- okay? She still looks like Liz

SHARPTON: It`s also according to who the actor is. I`m not an actor but I
lost a lot of weight and I read these transformation articles and the right
wing still beats me up.


Krystal, Chuck, Caroline, thank you for your time tonight.

BALL: Thanks, Rev.


SHARPTON: When we come back, why I think real change is coming to


SHARPTON: Finally tonight, fighting for progress. There`s no doubt in my
mind that policing is the biggest civil rights issue of our time and the
issue goes back decades. But now we may finally be seeing some real change
in America and a lot is coming from the Obama administration. The
President is calling for $260 million in funding for police body cameras in
training. He`s also has created a task force to identify how police and
residents and high tension communities can work together to build trust.
And Attorney General Eric Holder says, he`ll soon announce a plan to end
racial profiling by federal law enforcement. So, he yes, change is
happening. Yesterday President Obama invited me and other civil rates and
elected leaders to the White House to talk about better policing in this
country. We heard the President`s personal commitment to change.


PRES. BARACK OBAMA (D), UNITED STATES: And part of the reason this time
will be different is because the president of the United States is deeply
invested and making sure that this time is different. In the two years I
have remaining as president, I`m going to make sure that we follow through.
Not to solve every problem, not to tear down every barrier of mistrust that
may exists but to make things better. And that`s how progress is always
made in this great country of ours.


SHARPTON: I`ve met with the last two presidents on this issue, but this is
the first time I`ve seen actual steps that have been put down with funding
behind it. It doesn`t solve nearly all the problems but, like he said,
it`s the beginning. And some concrete beginning steps gives me hope. We
need specific, real steps because this is a real problem.

Thanks for watching. I`m Al Sharpton. "HARDBALL" starts right now.



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