THE ED SHOW
December 9, 2014
Guest: Sheldon Whitehouse, Heather Hurlburt, Carlos Warner, Adam Green,
Hakeem Jeffries, Jean Kleeb
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... released by the Senate Intelligence Committee.
DIANNE FEINSTEIN, (D-CA) INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE: Described brutal around
the clock interrogations.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I hesitate to use that term torture.
FEINSTEIN: It was an ugly visceral description.
SEN. JOHN MCCAIN, (R) ARIZONA: I know from personal experience that the
abuse of prisoners will produce more bad than good intelligence.
PRES. BARACK OBAMA, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: We did a whole lot of things
that were right but we tortured some folks.
MCCAIN: It`s used for shameful and unnecessary.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They never interviewed any of us who had anything to do
with this program.
OBAMA: We compromise our basic values.
FRM. PRES. GEORGE W. BUSH, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Using those
techniques saved lives.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The program had proven its worth.
FEINSTEIN: That`s a claim we conclude is inaccurate.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ED SCHULTZ, MSNBC HOST: Good to have you with us tonight folks. Thanks
Earlier today, the Senate Intelligence Committee released a 525-page report
on the CIA`s used of enhanced interrogation during the Bush administration.
The reports findings are beyond disturbing if the report is true. Enhanced
interrogation better known as torture goes against everything this country
stands for. Every American should know the key findings of this report.
First the report finds enhanced interrogations were not effective. The
techniques never produced intel that stopped an imminent terror threat in
America. Many disagree saying enhanced interrogation did provide important
information. A report finds the CIA provided inaccurate information about
the program, to policy-makers and to the American public.
The report found CIA`s management of the program was deeply flawed. 80
percent of the interrogation program was outsourced to psychologist. Their
company was paid over $80 million. Finally, the CIA`s interrogation
program was far more brutal than the CIA ever told law makers or the
Some in Washington are extremely upset this report was released. They
claim it might compromise national security or put American lives in
jeopardy and at risk.
Earlier today, Senator Dianne Feinstein made a solid case why this report
had to be made public.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FEINSTEIN: This report is too important to show indefinitely. I`m
releasing this report because I know there are thousands of employees at
the CIA who do not condone what I will speak about this morning and who
work day out, day and night, long hours within the law for America`s
security in what is certainly a difficult world. It shows that the CIA`s
actions, a decade ago are stain on our value and on our history.
The release of this 500-page summary cannot remove that stain but it can
and does say to our people and the world that America is big enough to
admit when it`s wrong and confident enough to learn from its mistake.
Releasing this report is an important step to restore our values and show
the world that we are in fact a just and lawful society.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: Minutes later, Senator John McCain took to the Senate floor in
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MCCAIN: I rise in support of the release -- the long-delayed release -- of
the Senate Intelligence Committee`s summarized, unclassified review of the
so-called, enhanced interrogation techniques that were employed by the
previous administration to extract information from captured terrorists.
It`s a thorough and thoughtful study of practices that I believe not only
failed their purpose -- to secure actionable intelligence, to prevent
further attacks on the U.S. and our allies -- but actually damaged our
security interests, as well as our reputation as a force for good in the
I believe the American people have a right -- indeed, a responsibility to
know what was done in their name.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: Details of this summary are extensive and disturbing. Overall,
the report reveals 119 people were tortured. So what`s in this report?
This is a quote. "CIA officers threatened at least three detainees with
harm to their families to include threats to harm the children of a
detainee, threats to sexually abuse the mother of a detainee, and threats
to cut a detainee`s mother`s throat."
One CIA site known as Cobalt was especially disturbing. Detainees were
kept in complete darkness and constantly shackled in isolated cells with
loud noise or music and only a bucket to use for human waste. Lack of heat
at the facility likely contributed to the death of a detainee.
One of the most disturbing cases involved 9/11 planner, Abu Zubaydah. The
report says Zubaydah was water board at 83 times, 24/7 for two and a half
straight weeks. At one point, Zubaydah became, "completely unresponsive
with bubbles rising through his mouth full open."
Zubaydah survived his experience with enhance interrogation. One of the
people unhappy with this report is former Vice-President Dick Cheney. Dick
Cheney, before the report came out contacted the New York Times and said
the notion that the CIA misled the White House, "Is just a crock."
He said, "When we have that program in place, we kept the country safe from
any more mass casually attacks which was our objective." He went on to say
that the program was, "The right thing to do and if I had to do it over
again, I would do it."
The Bush Administration`s legacy of enhanced interrogation is one that
deeply divides this country.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This story is very simple. The USA tortured terrorist
for intelligence and it didn`t work. Over the next few weeks, you`ll see a
tired old debate in America. Half this country thinks torture is just
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I celebrate with the CIA did in the aftermath of 9/11.
KARL ROVE, FRM. WHITE HOUSE DEPUTY CHIEF OF STAFF: These techniques worked
in a dark moment for our country to keep our country safe.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We did whatever we had to do and I pray to God until
the end of time, we do whatever we have to do to find out what`s happening.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well look, I`m on record saying I`m in favor of water
boarding because it worked.
BILL O`REILLY, "THE O`REILLY FACTOR" HOST: It doesn`t mention all the
lives saved and there were thousands of lives saved by the information it
got by water boarding Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and such.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Half this country thinks Bush and Cheney committed war
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I find it enormous problem that they go after something
like this Benghazi, tragedy that it was and they don`t go after something
that is a colossal tragedy like the war crimes of Richard Bruce Cheney.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s clear that things that the Bush Administration
did, in my mind at least it`s clear that some of the things they did were
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The administration with 9/11 on their watch muddy the
water on torture time after time.
BUSH: You can`t expect me and people in this government to do what we need
to do to protect you and your family if we don`t have the tools that we
think are necessary to do so.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And you said within the law and yet you admitted that
there were the CIA secret facilities.
BUSH: So what? Why is that not within the law?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The head of amnesty international said secret sites are
against international law.
BUSH: Well, we disagreed with them. And plus, my job is to protect you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You were very careful to make certain, they were legal,
that was standard within the limits but we did developed techniques that
were absolutely vital in collecting information.
SCHULTZ: Conservatives still have a T.V. show 24 mentality today. They
fantasize about pulling a vital piece of intel from a dirty terrorist just
in time to save America from another attack. This is fantasy.
Some liberals won`t be happy until Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld have their day
at the hay. This is also fantasy. President Obama decided not to go after
the former administration early on.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right.
SCHULTZ: Here are the simple truths to the story. One, America tortured,
two, nobody will be held responsible.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: And let`s not forget America`s CIA Director George Tenet was
given the presidential medal of freedom, little did we know at the time he
as in charge of an organization according to this report that was running a
rogue organization through the CIA. Zubaydah was tortured. This report
says 83 times for two and a half weeks straight.
He was a planner for 9/11. I would venture to say that most Americans
probably don`t care that he was tortured saying that we lost over 3,000
Americans on that day back in September 11th, 2001. But the fact is, that
we don`t torture as a country because it`s against who we are. We don`t
torture because it`s against international law and we don`t torture because
we don`t want our people to get tortured. Now where do we go?
Get your cellphones out. I want to know what you think tonight on this
issue. Tonight`s question, do you think this senate intelligence report
will make America stronger or weaker?
Text A, for stronger, text B for weaker, to 67622, go to our blog, leave at
comment at ed.msnbc.com, we`ll bring you the results later on in the show.
For more, let me bring in Senator Sheldon Whitehouse of Rhode Islands.
Senator, good to have you with us tonight on this very crucial topic. And
I want to go right to the accuracy of this and how it is being debunked by
former administration officials.
Do you believe that this report is accurate and true?
SEN. SHELDON WHITEHOUSE, (D) RHODE ISLANDS, Absolutely, positively,
certainly. The authors of this report, the members of the committee and
the staff went through millions of documents. They were operating off of
life, e-mail traffic happening as these investigations and interrogations
The amount of information that they worked with was very strong. It is
massively footnoted and backstopped. Indeed the CIA tried to take that
apart and came up with actually one factual correction.
So, the talk that`s happening is really just the continuation of the spin
campaign to support the program. But in terms of the serious one-on-one,
look at the report and looking for factual errors, not there.
SCHULTZ: Senator, do you think this country did the right thing but not
going down this road earlier in seeking prosecutions if laws were broken?
WHITEHOUSE: Well, that`s a difficult conversation for me to have because I
was not in the grand jury that investigated this. I was not part of the
persecutive team. One has to have faith in the system. I know the
Prosecutor John Durham who worked on this. I think he`s a very legitimate,
credible, solid person. He did not go into the tank, I do not believe.
So, I think you have to trust the process at this point that there was no
charge to be brought.
SCHULTZ: So, how does America make this right as you see it? Many people
think that this is going to damage our standing of the world. We push for
human rights. We push for social justice and we`ve got our own issues on
our own soil in that regard. But clearly, with 38,000 footnotes in this
report and as detailed as it is, how do we make it right?
WHITEHOUSE: I think this report is a long step towards making it right.
It`s really important that Americans know what was done in their name and
they should be aware of the context of this which is that we have actually
prosecuted American soldiers for waterboarding during the Philippines
insurrection. We prosecuted Japanese soldiers for waterboarding Americans
during World War II.
We can`t be a credible leader of this world if we have a double standard
for ourselves and that`s just, you know, it`s just wrong. A lot was broken
and bends out of shape trying to protect this torture program and we need
to set all of that right as well.
SCHULTZ: Who`s at the root of it in your opinion Senator? Is this just
some rogue agents that went of on their own because they were upset that
the country got hit or do you think that they took orders from the White
House to do whatever it takes to get information and it got out of hand.
How would you describe what you think unfold it?
WHITEHOUSE: I think there was a White House connection here. When you
look at the way in which the rules over at the Department of Justice were
written up in a way that allowed this torture program to proceed, ignoring
United States circuit court case law that called waterboarding torture. It
really looks like over at the Department of Justice, they cooked the books
to allow the program to go forward.
The CIA and the Department of Justice and the White House I think together
would have to have done that. They deliberately kept the circle that saw
the legal report to a very small group so there is no peer review and
people who are not in on the deal didn`t say, "What, that`s crazy."
So, there are lots of signs that this was maneuvered in a way that was
aware of the wrongfulness of the program both in the lead up to it and
during its continuation and in trying to justify it afterwards. There`s
kind of a cover up around this as well as the program itself.
SCHULTZ: So Senator, everyone involved walks scot-free. How does that sit
WHITEHOUSE: Well, not great, but I do think something very important was
done in getting this report out. The truth really matters in America.
SCHULTZ: All right, Senator Sheldon Whitehouse, great to have you with us
on the Ed Show. I appreciate your time tonight sir.
Let me bring in Heather Hurlburt who is the Program Director for New
America and Carlos Warner, Federal Public Defender representing 11
Heather, what jumps at you with this report and your reaction to what the
senator had to say?
HEATHER HURLBURT, PROGRAM DIRECTOR, NEW AMERICA: Two things Ed. One is
the amazing in confidence of the CIA that this depicts that you should --
even if you`re still not sure whether torture works or not, you should have
a real problem with the government agency that operates this way.
And second, that there`s no critique of anything in the report except the
assertion that torture doesn`t work. As your intro mentioned, there`s no
dispute of the fact. There`s no dispute of about the techniques. There`s
not in dispute that totally innocent people were held and tortured.
So, most of this report in fact is not disputed at all by anyone.
SCHULTZ: What about the defense that Dick Cheney is putting up Heather, in
dealing with this, saying that if he had to do it all over again, that`s
exactly what he`ll do. He said it was cleared by the Department of
Justice, your thoughts on that. I mean, this is a vehement defense that
everything they did was within the law and to protect the country.
HURLBURT: Well, you just heard Senator Whitehouse say that everything they
did was deemed to be within the law by a group of lawyers that were
convened and directed by the White House. To make sure that it was within
the law. If you look at records from the FBI officials during the same
period, if you look at statements by interrogators who descended.
You will see that there were people at the time who were saying number one,
this is outside the law and number two, we were getting better intel before
the torture started.
SCHULTZ: Carlos, the details in this report obviously disturbing. First
of all, you`re reaction to it. What legal ramification can become of any
of this as you see it?
CARLOS WARNER, FEDERAL PUBLIC DEFENDER: Well, I think Senator Whitehouse
was lied to. I think if you look at the back of the report, the report is
written as an indictment that gets Michael Hayden and Mr. Rizzo. There`s
perjury. The testimony of -- I think they go -- it`s a great detail about
how Michael Hayden, the Director of the CIA lied to Congress and we see
that everyday here in the courts of United States.
My clients there often prosecuted for perjury for much less. I saw 30
counts of perjury. My question to the administration is why isn`t Mr.
Hayden being prosecuted.
He should be prosecuted and pardoned if that`s what you want to go. But if
we`re going to follow the rule of law we have to enforce it equally from
top to bottom.
SCHULTZ: What do you think the legal reaction will be from the
international community Carlos if any?
WARNER: Well, I think the President has been very clear on this and he`s
correct Ed. We have to practice what we preach. We cannot go to foreign
nations and tell them all the wrong things that they`re doing in the world
and they can look at this report -- and nothing in this report came as much
of a surprise, it shouldn`t to the public.
The bottom line is we knew that there is torture going on. It`s inhibited
our ability to relate to other countries internationally. It`s --
Guantanamo is a horrible black stain on our history, it continues to be.
And frankly, it causes the President not to be able to you know, reach many
of the objectives he`s hoping to do internationally. He just doesn`t have
the credibility with these kinds of black marks.
SCHULTZ: Heather, where does the CIA go from here? How do you map this
up? How do we know there`s still not doing it?
HURLBURT: Well, what I`d like to see is CIA reform and CIA oversight
reforms so that we can be more confident that more members of Congress are
getting more extensive information. So, we don`t have -- we don`t have to
hear -- well Senator Whitehouse was lied to, or Senator Feinstein was lied
HURLBURT: ... and since, you know, we`ve continued to see the questions
about the investigation itself. There`s clearly major internal clean up
within the CIA needed.
SCHULTZ: Well if there -- if there is -- most of the work was done by
psychologist that caused this country $80 million, it would seemed to me
that somebody on the Intel Committee ought to know that long before it
unfolds. Or is that expecting too much Heather?
HURLBURT: It seems to have been expecting too much and I think we also
have to say that there do seem been a number of things that are overseers
in the White House and in Congress should have known and maybe didn`t want
SCHULTZ: All right, and Carlos, finally. What does this change if
anything with those who are Guantanamo Bay at Gitmo?
WARNER: Well, you know, I think one of the problems with Guantanamo is
just lifting the curtain and knowing whose there. I mean, one of the
shocking things that came out to the general public is that they tortured
at least 26 innocent individuals. The wrong people and we have said for
years that that condition exists in Guantanamo that we have many innocent
And it`s difficult given our security restrictions to take our case public.
But the bottom line is, it should make the American public question, who
are we holding in Guantanamo? Why are they there? And frankly...
WARNER: ... why can`t we close it? It`s something that President wants to
do but the right keeps pushing back.
SCHULTZ: All right, Heather Hurlburt and also Carlos Warner, great to have
you with us tonight. I appreciate your experience on it.
Coming up, using power and celebrity to usher in social change in America.
Rapid Response Panel weights in on the, I can`t breathed moment.
But first the progressive dream. We are talking about Elizabeth Warren and
a new 2016 push, Trenders is next. Stay with us.
SCHULTZ: Time now for Trenders. We want to you keep in touch with us on
Twitter@edshow, like us on Facebook and thanks for that. And you can get
my podcast on iTunes, free 24/7. You can also find it at wegoted.com,
rawstory.com, ringoffireradio.com. It`s there 24/7 for you.
The Ed Show social media nation has decided, we`re reporting.
Here today`s top Trenders voted on by you.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BUGS BUNNY, "LOONEY TUNES" CHARACTER: I wish my brother George was here.
SCHULTZ: The number three trender, brother`s bet.
BUSH: He knows I want him to run, if I need to reiterate it will. Run,
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Run Forrest run.
BUSH: Yeah, I think he`d be a great President.
SCHULTZ: W puts his money on Jeb in 2016.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You`ve often referred to Bill Clinton...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What`s up brother from another mother?
CANDY CROWLEY, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: What does that make
BUSH: My sister-in-law.
CROWLEY: Do you think that your brother could run against your sister-in-
BUSH: Yes. And I think he`d beat her.
JIM CARREY, ACTOR: How much you want to bet?
CROWLEY: So you`ll take that bet?
SCHULTZ: The number two trender, British evasion.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: William and Kate are paying a visit to the colonies.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The couple flew into JFK on a commercial flight leaving
baby George behind in London.
SCHULTZ: The duke and duchess meet American leaders.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The Prince`s D.C. trip began with White House
meetings, first Vice President and Dr. Biden and later with President
SCHULTZ: Along Queen Bee and King James.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: William and Kate met Beyonce and Jay Z.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: LeBron putting his arm Kate for photos and giving
them a special gift to bring to George, his own Jersey.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What do you think? Is it cool or what?
SCHULTZ: In today`s top trender, make it a move.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: MoveOn.org is prepared to spend $1 million to Draft
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You chose me?
SCHULTZ: MoveOn votes on supporting an Elizabeth Warren Presidential run.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Elizabeth Warren has positioned her self as a
Democratic Party leading crusader against Wall Street.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Increasing social security benefit, things that will
help struggling Americans.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well Elizabeth Warren is out there saying
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: For Hillary Clinton we already see her trying to adapt
to that message. But she`s not adapting fast enough.
SEN. ELIZABETH WARREN: Because we got to get out there and we`ve got to be
willing to fight back, to take this country back.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: Joining me tonight Adam Green, co-founder of the Progressive
Change Campaign Committee, Adam good to have with you with us tonight. Can
there be enough grassroots support generated out there that might get
Elizabeth Warren to change her mind and run for the nomination for the
Democrats. What do you think, could it happen?
ADAM GREEN, CO-FOUNDER, PCCC: Well I think this will certainly a turn some
heads and the single biggest priority of progressive going into the 2016
presidential election is making sure that whoever the Democratic nominee is
actively campaigns on an Elizabeth Warren style, economic populist agenda.
Around issues like expanding social security benefits or making college
massively more affordable, massive investment in jobs, things like that.
So, you know, will this grassroots effort make a difference? It certainly
will for the national political dialog. If an effective business only that
thousands of people across the country hold local event everywhere
clamoring for a Democratic candidate to stand on big ideas, that alone will
help tilt the presidential debate in a certain direction.
SCHULTZ: But do you think Elizabeth Warren can be recruited. I guess is
the question. I mean, she stated that she`s not going to run but then
again there -- is this ground swell effort that`s going to take place,
MoveOn going to spend a million. Your organization has been very connected
to Elizabeth Warren and a big supporter. What would move her to say, "I`m
going to take a look at this and get serious on it?"
GREEN: Yeah, so the progressive change campaign committee led to draft
Elizabeth Warren for Senate campaign in 2011-2012, raised her $100,000
before she even run and a million dollars and small dollar donation
ultimately. And, you know, an outpouring of grassroots support is usually
the goal of draft campaign, to show someone that if they run, they count on
Now, in this case Elizabeth Warren has said she`s not running, she`s also
said that life opens unexpected doors, so who knows. But here`s the
bottom-line. Every progressive actor need to be doing something to impact
the presidential race and insure that Hillary Clinton and others understand
and are incentivized to campaign on an Elizabeth Warren style agenda.
And whether it`s MoveOn doing this draft campaign or Bernie Sanders or Jim
Webb deciding to run from president themselves and beyond the presidential
debate stage, or us attending our first New Hampshire organizer up there
this week to talk to local unions and local Democratic Party leaders to see
who`s in and who`s out for exerting leverage in the presidential primary.
All of these things lead in the same direction, which is we want a
Democratic Party that stands for big economic populist ideas.
SCHULTZ: Well, does Hillary Clinton fit that bill as you see it right now?
GREEN: Time will tell. She has talked about a lot issue. But one thing
that she has not talked about, almost at all, is Wall Street and corporate
power or the types of people that she would appoint to key treasury
position. Will there be more Wall Street folks or will there be populist
like your self? Or like Paul Krugman or Dean Baker, people like that.
So, again, what we can do between now and the time that Hillary Clinton
decides or, you know, to run or not run. What we can do after she does
make that decision is change environment, show visible support across New
Hampshire, across Iowa, across America for a presidential candidate that
will actively embrace economic...
GREEN: ... and fight for little guy against the big guy, so every effort
in that direction.
SCHULTZ: All right, Adam Green of the PCCC good to have you with us
tonight. Thank you for joining us.
Coming up, King James make`s a royal statement in Brooklyn. And President
Obama makes a bold statement on Keystone. Your questions are next.
Ask Ed Live just a head on the Ed Show on MSNBC. We`ll be right back.
SCHULTZ: Welcome back to the Ed Show. I appreciate all the questions from
our viewers tonight in our Ask Ed Live segment.
Our first question is from Julie she wants to know. "Do you believe the
President will negotiate the Keystone XL pipeline into an immigration
Well, he could, he could negotiate anything into immigration plan. But if
he`s going to do that he`s going to have to make the Republicans think
they`re really getting something. So the President is going to come out
against Keystone in a big way and then negotiate it away.
But in my opinion, I think that there`s million things the President could
negotiate away other than the climate. I`m a believer that Keystone is not
good for the climate in the long run.
Next question is from Cherly. "You show airs, she says, here in Tennessee
at 4:00 P.M. Central Time and on the East Coast at 5:00 P.M. What time do
you start your day?"
The coffee is on at 6:00 in the morning no matter what time zone I`m in.
That`s when we get it going and I got a walk the dogs, you know, Baxter
(ph) and Ducky (ph) they got to get outside and do what they got to do and
then we get right into it, and thanks for watching.
Stick around Rapid Response Panel is next.
HAMPTON PEARSON, CNBC MARKET WRAP: I`m Hampton Pearson with your CNBC
Stocks closed mixed and off session laws. The Dow finishes down 51 after
falling 220 points earlier, the S&P end flat, the NASDAQ gains 25 points.
A report from the labor department shows job opening rose more than 3
percent to 4.83 million on October. That was the second highest level in
In Abercrombie & Fitch is looking for a new CEO. The retailer`s Chief
Executive is retiring effective immediately. Shares gained 8 percent on
That`s it from CNBC, first in business worldwide.
SCHULTZ: Welcome back to the Ed Show. Thanks for joining us tonight. You
know, people in positions of visibility sometimes use that visibility in a
very powerful way. The king of the NBA has inserted himself into the
biggest story in America. LeBron James wear an "I can`t breathe" T-shirt
on Monday night with five other players in the league, queue the
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
O`REILLY: I think people in the public eye like pro-athletes have a
responsibility to know what their talking about before they protest on the
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: Does that work for cable host too their old Bill O? LeBron James
is a part of a new generation of super stars. Michael Jordan famously said
Republicans buy sneakers too. Jordan didn`t want to use his influence to
take political stance.
LeBron James and other professional athletes of the 21st century know the
power of their visibility eclipses any sneaker contract. Now, President
Obama gave his insight on responsibility last night on BET.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: My mind went back to what it was like for me when I was 17, 18, 20.
And, you know, as I told then, and not only do I hear the pain and the
frustration of being subjected to that kind of constant suspicion. But,
you know, part of the reason I got into politics was to figure out how can
I bridge some of those gaps and understandings sort the larger country
understands. This is not just a black problem or a brown problem, this is
an American problem.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: The President recognized the power he holds.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: The Dr. King once said, when he was about anti-lynching
legislation, somebody said well, you know, you can`t change what`s in the
hearts of minds of the white folks on the south. You know, you can`t
legislate what`s in their hearts. He says, "Well, you know, you can`t
legislate what in their heart but I`ll tell you what? If you can just stop
them from lynching me, that`s progress", that`s pretty good thing and over
time, the hearts and mind catch up with laws.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: Joining me tonight on a Rapid Response Panel, Dr. Michael Eric
Dyson Professor at Georgetown University and MSNBC Political Analyst, also
with us tonight Congressman Hakeem Jeffries of New York, gentlemen great to
have you with us.
Congressman you first, how is the President handling this crisis of
justice? I mean, there`s very little he can do other than to give
interviews that would impress people because he just doesn`t hold the
legislative power to change things or do you see it differently?
REP. HAKEEM JEFFRIES, (D) NEW YORK: Well, this is a national moment of
opportunity to really get something done on an issue that has been plaguing
America for generations. And I think that the President has stepped in
with excellent leadership convening folks at the White House and the
immediate aftermath of Ferguson.
And that`s a momentum that should continue now with a lot of folks
continued to be focused on this problem particularly given what took place
with the Eric Garner situation and the failure of the grand jury to indict.
I think the Democrats and Republicans and people in blue states and red
states and progressives and conservatives who are prepared to have a real
conversation that leads to action now on this problem of young, unarmed,
innocent African-American being killed by the excessive use of force.
SCHULTZ: Dr. Dyson, there`s a lot of talking going on. There`s a lot of
athletes now that are making a statement but what action can be taken?
DYSON: Well, first of all, talk is necessary. Martin Luther King Jr.,
whom the President quoted, spent most of his time talking.
Yes, he was in the street. Yes, he was forging commitments in coalitions
and connections with other like-minded activists to change law and to
undermine the cultural practices that had been distractive to black people
but they spent a lot of time talking. So, we can`t underestimate the
bullet proof (ph) here.
I don`t want the President to come off as a spectator and he still does.
He has to say, not only do I feel what they feel and I understood back 17
years ago, what about now? Make a plain statement. It is egregious and
unjust for young African-American men to be subject to the kinds of police
brutality and lethal force that when apply to them, stigmatizes them,
expresses unconscious bias that is been a focused on their bodies and leads
We are American citizens. Talk about what that pain is, and what the
President does that, then it give a signal to the rest of the nation that
they must follow forward and then the Department of Justice can do what it
has to do. We got to talk about Prosecutorial Reform, we`ve got to talk
about what policing is about in America. Those conversations are critical
and the President can exercise a far more aggressive stance when it comes
to these issues that he`s taking so far.
SCHULTZ: Yeah. Congressman, President Obama is always very measured in
his demeanor, but what if he sounded like Michael Eric Dyson just right
there? What is the President came out and did what Dr. Dyson just said and
approach it that way? Would it make a difference?
JEFFRIES: Well, I think the President was very passionate in his response
in the aftermath of the Trayvon Martin situation. And I think he has taken
a more measured approach although his reason to believe that that`s
justified based on the fact that you`ve got ongoing Justice Department
Investigation both in Ferguson as well as, as it relates to the Eric Garner
situation. And he can`t be accused of prejudicing those investigations
when he appoints the Attorney General who`s going to lead the Department of
But to Dr. Dyson`s point, this is a moment where we do need an all hands on
deck approach, and presidential leadership, passionate informed, engage
leadership is important. Now, the President has said Ed, that this time
will be different. And I think that`s an important contribution...
JEFFRIES: ... because he asked the question and answered it by saying,
because he`s involved and so he`s got two years to deliver on that promise.
SCHULTZ: Congressman, do you think LeBron James and other NBA players and
some NFL players make a difference?
JEFFRIES: Absolutely. And, you know, as I indicated, we need athletes, we
need entertainers, we need college students, we need the President, we need
Congress, we need academics, we need all hands on deck to solve a problem
that has impacted America for generations without us being able to
something about it.
And in the great tradition of this country, you can look at Jesse Owens
when he went to Germany and defeated Adolf Hitler proving that the Aryan
race wasn`t superior. You can look at Jackie Robinson when he broke the
color barrier in America`s pastime. That was before Brown V Board of
Education, that was before Rosa Parks, that was before the march on
Washington. It was an important moment in a Civil Rights Movement.
You can look at Muhammad Ali`s courageous stand against the Vietnam War.
He was a popular athlete. He helped to elevate...
JEFFRIES: ... the importance of that discussion.
LeBron James can do the same thing.
SCHULTZ: Dr. Dyson, do you think that 20 somethings who are out there
protesting are gathering -- what happened in past generations of activism -
- you`ve got the Columbia Law School. They`re going to allow students to
postpone their exams if they feel unnerved by the recent grand jury
decisions. I mean, it seems to me that the school is making a statement.
But these 20 somethings -- do they realized that this a generational fight
as other things were in the past? What do you think?
DYSON: Well, I think they`re extremely intelligent. My students at
Georgetown are well-inform. They understand that this is a reflection on
the persistence of a problem, the malignant persistence of a problem that
we have not yet dealt with.
But let me say this about the President so I won`t be mistaken. The
President keeps saying he doesn`t want to weight in on a particular case.
I don`t want him to. I want him to weight in on the case of black unarmed
people being murdered by the police, nothing specific, not Michael Brown,
not Eric Garner. I want you to say in general without there being a case
that it is wrong and unjust for this to occur.
The President is taking refuge in a technicality behind which he cannot
cower. He must stand up and use the full strength of his bullet proofing
(ph) because he is a brilliant, capable man who is understanding the
niceties and interpretations...
DYSON: ... and no absence (ph) of race but he can no longer be allowed to
remain a spectator and no longer allowed not to use the bullet proofing
(ph) that he possesses in order to make a strong statement.
He doesn`t have to be out of control emotional, he just has to be
DYSON: ... in particular and I think that will make a huge difference in
SCHULTZ: All right.
Dr. Michael Eric Dyson and also Congressman Hakeem Jeffries, I appreciate
your time tonight. Thank you.
JEFFRIES: Thank you, Ed.
SCHULTZ: The Heisman candidates are set of -- you bet -- the Heisman
candidates are set. And I`ll tell you who`s, I think are going to take
home the hardware.
Stay with us. We`ll be right back.
SCHULTZ: Time now for the two minute drill. Let`s do it in one minute. A
race for the Heisman is on. Here they are, Oregon quarterback Marcus
Mariota, also Alabama wide receiver Amari Cooper, the guy had a big game at
the right time didn`t he, and Wisconsin running back Melvin Gordon. All
we`re named as finalist, the final three for the Heisman trophy.
I`ve have only seen Gordon play in action. He was awfully impressive at
Iowa and of course the week before over 400 yards. Mariota, great numbers,
I think Alabama would be a great team even if Cooper wasn`t playing but
this is an individual honor. They`re all great but I got to go with
This guy, when he is done for Wisconsin, the thing that is going to hurt
him is he didn`t show up very well against Ohio State, but every down this
guy is a threat. Every down, this guy had plays as much as he handles the
ball. He is very strong between the tackles and he has got a second and
third gear. I think he`s the best player in the country.
Coming up, we`re talking Keystone. Stay with us.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: In a world where we already know temperatures is going up, and
Keystone is a potential contributor of that. It`s not going to push down
gas prices here in the United States. It is good for Canada. It could
create a couple thousand jobs in the initial construction of pipeline but
we got to mention that against whether or not it is going to contribute
through an overall warming of the planet that it could be disastrous.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: The President doesn`t sound like a believer. We got the latest
on the Keystone XL next. Stay with us.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. BILL CASSIDY, (R-LA) SENATOR-ELECT: It`s the Republican Party that is
pushing the use of U.S. natural resources to create American jobs. It is
the Democratic Party trying to kill those jobs.
In the oil and gas industry, Barrack Obama continues to impede our jobs
with regulations. We are a working family region. The Republican Party is
the party of the working family.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: This is the story for the folks who take a shower after work.
Meet the new normal, early next year, big oil will have the Senate.
Senator Mary Landrieu`s addiction to oil didn`t do anything for her in her
recent election, the Senator who never explained this fact.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. MARRY LANDRIEU, (D) LOUISIANA: It relates to the Keystone Pipeline
and the decision that you are going to make, the administration is going to
make about a critical in my view piece of infrastructure that will
transport safely the cleanest barrel of oil produced in North American
contrary to popular belief.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: Well, she got smoked by 12 points. Republicans now have vote the
Louisiana senate seats for the first time in a 130 years. Landrieu`s lost
is a message to other Democrats as I see it. Backing big oil hurts the
environment and it doesn`t buy you one extra vote. She tried to out
Keystone the opponent, I didn`t work.
Maybe if she had said, you know, what let`s do the responsible thing. It`s
not going to affect our economy in Louisiana a bit and we got to concern
ourselves about the climate, maybe she would have won.
Joining me tonight is Jean Kleeb, Executive Director of Bold Nebraska.
Jean, good to have you with us tonight.
Is this somewhat of a message to Democrats that it`s better to go with the
truth? It is the dirtiest oil, not the cleanest oil coming out of to the
ground and she tried to spin that and I think she paid a price for it? How
do you see one unfolded here?
JEAN KLEEB, EXEC. DIR. BOLD NEBRASKA: Yeah I mean, I think Senator
Landrieu is not only an Aquifer denier so she`s not only lying about how
carbon intensive Tar Sands is. It`s the dirtiest form of oil, but she also
literally lied on the U.S. Senate, denying that the Keystone XL route still
crosses the Aquifer.
And so I think when you cheerlead for Keystone XL, whether you`re
Representative Lee Terry or Senator Landrieu, you`re going to get the boot.
People do not want to see big oil destroying our land and water and the
increasing carbon pollution.
SCHULTZ: She tried to out Keystone her opponent and it didn`t work. And
so now the Republicans have got another senate seat. Is this going to make
it harder to do anything on the climate? It probably will as I see it.
KLEEB: I do think that President Obama actually has a lot of things
already moving forward through executive actions, and already using things
like that have the Clean Water Act. And so, we have already seen big
climate moves that the President has done. We now need to see a rejection,
and so what I think needs to happen next is the EPA honestly needs to look
at the changes that have happened since that the State Department release
of their report.
And they need to submit new information to the State Department because the
price of oil has dropped it completely changes the climate change equation
in the State Department`s report. And so that`s really what I hope that
EPA is going to do next.
SCHULTZ: So, why would we bring this oil to market if prices are dropping?
Obviously, there`s enough oil and consumption is down. So what do you
expect from the Senate majority next year on -- what this is a backdrop to
all of it.
KLEEB: You know, I expect more of the same from McConnell and all of the
big oil loving senators. They`re not going to do anything to help farmers
and ranchers. They`re certainly not going to do anything to help climate
change. And so we look to President Obama for that leadership.
He has two more years where he can enact strong climate regulations and he
can also make sure that he`s showing climate leadership and reject the
Keystone XL. It`s not going to happen in the Senate. It`s certainly not
going to happen in the House. We know that.
And so we as Americans have to rise up and start electing more populist
folks whether that`s a populist Republicans or populist Democrats. We
can`t keep on risking our land and water and throwing away property rights
all in the name of "Energy Security and Jobs".
SCHULTZ: So you don`t think the Senate vote is going to take place that
would give the stamp of approval to Keystone when they get the majority
KLEEB: I mean I certainly think that that`s a possibility Ed, but I also
think that the President can reject and veto those bills. He can use the
pen that Americans in all across the United States are sending him to veto
those bills and then he can use that same pen...
KLEEB: ... to reject the Keystone XL altogether. We don`t have to live in
a society where they dictate where our policies are going.
SCHULTZ: All right, Jean Kleeb, Bold Nebraska, good to have you with us
tonight. I appreciate your time.
That`s the Ed Show. I`m Ed Schultz.
Politics Nation with Reverend Al Sharpton is next.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY
Content and programming copyright 2014 MSNBC. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.
Copyright 2014 Roll Call, Inc. All materials herein are protected by
United States copyright law and may not be reproduced, distributed,
transmitted, displayed, published or broadcast without the prior written
permission of Roll Call. You may not alter or remove any trademark,
copyright or other notice from copies of the content.
The Ed Show for Tuesday, December 9th, 2014
THE ED SHOW