Show: UP with STEVE KORNACKI
Date: January 11, 2015
Guest: Marc Ginsberg, Suzy Khimm, Katie Packer-Gage, Emily Tisch Sussman,
Manu Raju, Austan Goolsbee, Jimmy Pethokoukis, Roger Cohen, Charlie Dent
STEVE KORNACKI, MSNBC ANCHOR: A day of unity and defiance.
Good morning, thanks for getting up with us this Sunday morning. Lots of
politics, news and news about politics. All we want to get you later in
the morning. But right now the final hour of preparation is under way as
we speak as crowds gather in Paris for a unity rally with global support.
Check out some of the live scenes here. Amazing pictures, even more people
are expected to take the streets than the 700,000 who did so across France
We`re also going to talk about the first showdown between the new congress
and President Obama a little bit later in the show. Legislation he is
vowing to veto, but that may be headed to his desk anyway. So, what
happens next? We know the rest. A major signs the economy is bouncing
back in a big way. Who gets the credit for that? What happens if it still
doesn`t feel like it`s bouncing back to many Americans. But again, we
start this hour in Paris. This is where, we just mentioned, the final
preparations are now under way for this morning`s truly massive at least it
looks from these early pictures unity rally. 40 leaders mostly from Europe
as well as hundreds of thousands of others all expected to take part today,
this morning. And this just in from Paris, prosecutors are now saying the
alleged gunman who shot and killed four hostages at a kosher grocery store
on Friday and a police officer on Thursday has now been linked to a third
shooting. Ballistics show the same gun was used in the shooting of a
jogger on Wednesday. That`s the same day as the Charlie Hebdo attacks.
That jogger was seriously wounded.
There was also a new propaganda video this morning that appears to show the
suspect in all three of those incidents, Amedy Coulibaly, pledging his
support to ISIS. And NBC News has not verified when, where or under what
circumstances this video was taken, but it nonetheless, has emerged and is
making the rounds certainly online right now.
Meanwhile, the search continues on the ground for Coulibaly`s girlfriend.
Police believe she might be an accomplice. The APR agencies report, it is
now thought that she left France for Spain last week before traveling on to
a Turkish city near the Syrian border. All traces of her after that have
been lost. And in Germany overnight, a Hamburg newspaper that reprinted a
Charlie Hebdo cartoon was hit with an arson attack. No one was hurt in
that, fortunately. NBC chief foreign correspondent Richard Engel is live
for us in Paris.
So, Richard, if we could just start with this - the report and, again, NBC
News is not apparently verified any of the details here, but we have this
gunman in a video pledging allegiance to ISIS. What do we know about that
RICHARD ENGEL, NBC CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely. But before we get to that,
let me just explain where I am right now. I am in Place de la Republique,
which is one of the main squares in central Paris and there are already
tens of thousands of people here. Organizers are hoping that a million
people will show up, not just in this square, but in several adjacent
squares really all across downtown Paris for this rally to call for unity,
to denounce violence, to denounce those attacks that started at the Charlie
Hebdo newspaper and then continued on with those two hostage situations.
Now, we are learning more and Paris officials are releasing more
information about the kosher supermarket gunman, Coulibaly. He, according
to Paris officials, was the same gunman who shot a policewoman the day
before. They know that because they have matched the ballistics from the
gun casings from bullet casings that were found at the scene of both
shootings and they are also linking him to the shooting at that jogger.
Also, it seems that in between the time that this attacker shot the
policewoman and then went on the next day to take hostages at a kosher
grocery, it seems somewhere in that time he made this final testimony in
which he videotaped perhaps himself, may have had assistance, a pledge of
allegiance to ISIS declaring his loyalty to the ISIS caliph. Abu Bakr al
Baghdadi. And then so far we only have media reports suggesting that his
partner, his - some people described him as his common law wife, Hayat left
the country before he carried out these attacks perhaps even entering into
Syria, presumably to join up with ISIS where it would have been very
difficult for her to be caught.
Some of the chants we have been hearing so far here today in the square,
we`ve been hearing people say, "Je suis Charlie," I am Charlie and talking
about liberte, liberte - liberty, liberty.
KORNACKI: Richard, yeah, these are the scenes we`re seeing here behind you
and we saw earlier in the show amazing in terms of the volume of people who
are out there right now. I wonder if you hear anything and if you talked
to anybody more about the intelligence failures in France, you know, over
the last few years, that allowed these people to sort of blossom into, you
know, jihadists in plain view. And as we say, as you mentioned with Hayat
Boumeddine, all sorts of conflicting information about first, was she in
the supermarket or was she at large and now apparently left the country
days ago. Have you heard anything about trying to piece together what
happened in terms of the intelligence situation?
ENGEL: We`re not hearing that here at this rally. This is a much more
emotional event. This is a family event. A lot of people here are adults.
They brought their children. Many people are holding homemade fliers with
the slogan of this event, "Je suis Charlie." "I am Charlie," in solidarity
with the cartoonists who were gunned down at hat satirical magazine. But
in the French media, we are already starting to see those questions raised.
How could these three suspects who were known to French intelligence, who
were under surveillance at one stage not have been picked up before they
went on their killing and hostage spree? In particular, the two brothers
who managed to leave the country who are at large, who were free to plot
and plan for this attack, even though one of them had spent considerable
amount of time in prison for terrorism charges arrested initially in 2005
and then arrested again in 2010. Why wasn`t he under closer supervision?
Yes, French media and French intellectuals and critics are starting to ask
that question. But that is not the theme of this rally today. This is
much more about coming together and denouncing the violence.
And if you look all around the square, you see a variety of flags up on the
statue and people are hanging the French flag. There`s Israeli flag,
there`s Turkish flag. People are looking out of their windows on the
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Armenian!
ENGEL: There`s an Armenian flag, this man is telling me here. So, there
is - there is Armenian flag.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Armenian.
ENGEL: We won`t forget the Armenian flag. So, people are coming here from
all sectors of Parisian society to stand together to say they will not
accept what happened in this country and they will not accept to be torn
apart along religious, cultural or ethnic lines.
KORNACKI: All right. Richard Engel live for us in Paris. Thanks for that
report, really appreciate that. And obviously, we could have a lot more on
that rally when it gets under way. We`ll have more live reports and more
coverage from Paris this morning on the show throughout the day here on
Meanwhile, U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder is in Paris at this hour, he`s
there to attend counter terrorism meetings amid questions, as we just
mentioned, about apparent intelligence failures that led to these attacks.
How was it that these suspects were known to counterterror officials and
three days of bloodshed could still have happened? Also, there is the
issue of the missing girlfriend, the suspected accomplice who as mentioned,
may have slipped out of France days before the attacks began.
Joining me now is former U.S. ambassador to Morocco and a former advisor on
Middle East policy at the White House, Marc Ginsberg and Clint Van Zandt,
former FBI profiler and hostage negotiator, as well as MSNBC contributor.
Ambassador Ginsberg, let me just start with you on this news about
Coulibaly with this video, pledging allegiance to ISIS. We had the earlier
reports of the two brothers invoking al Qaeda in Yemen. What do you make
of what we are starting piece together this morning about - about this ISIS
MARC GINSBERG, FMR. U.S. AMBASSADOR TO MOROCCO: Steve, it`s almost like to
quote yogi bear. "Deja vu all over again." We know already that there are
two jihadi (INAUDIBLE) cancers in the Middle East. One in Yemen where
Ayman al-Awlaki apparently was the inspiration for the Kouachi brothers, as
well as Coulibaly and his common law wife who apparently have direct ties
or may have direct ties to ISIS. After all, if Hayat Boumeddiene fled to
Turkey, which the Turkish authorities have now confirmed, she`s probably
made her way to Syria.
And so the question really comes down to when you compare where we were
after right at 9/11 and where we are in 2015, we still have the same Jihadi
ideology that has not been adequately contained and seems to be attracting
a new generation of dissatisfied Muslims, extremists or whatever you may
have at this (INAUDIBLE) views. And we don`t have a good enough policy to
contain it. And until we develop that policy of containment and are
willing in effect to make the decisions that are necessary in the Middle
East, we are going to be facing this all over again.
KORNACKI: Yeah, on that point, Cliff. So, the reports on the sort of -
Clint, excuse me, the point that we`re trying to - they were seeing in some
of the reporting. Coulibaly born to a family of African immigrants in
France and now he was apparently attracted at some point in the last few
years into sort of a violent jihadism. When you look at a background like
that, what usually, what is the allure to somebody from a background like
that to fall into the world of jihad?
CLINT VAN ZANDT, MSNBC CONTRIBUTOR: Well, I think at any point in his life
or at any point in the life of the two deceased brothers, they could have
made a turn one way or the other. You know, it`s interesting what my
friend Marc is pointing out right now. We`ve come to this terrible point,
though, where the enemy of my enemy is my friend. And we know that one of
the vehicle of one of these deceased subjects was found shortly after these
shoutouts, they found the flags of both of the two terrorist organizations
were inside. It`s like somebody living in Chicago and you are for the Cubs
and the White Sox depending on who`s winning at that time and to see the
mating of these two organizations, it`s like, well, there`s some points I
don`t like, but there`s some points I do. But there is a utilitarian
purpose that brings these individuals together. Whatever the group
philosophy is, when they come together in the small unit activity, which is
something apparently we`re going to see in the future, they`re able to lay
down their differences for their common cause. In this case, attacking
America and especially in France attacking those who they think were
involved in the war in the Middle East.
KORNACKI: Yeah, and Clint, I guess the other question everybody has is how
do you spot this? How do you spot this happening? Because again, the
profile Coulibaly that`s out there today in "New York Times" paints a
picture of a guy who - he`d been at a Coca-Cola plant. He had a full-time
employment, model employee, nobody around him was picking up any cues and
meanwhile this is all happening sort of behind the scenes. He is going
through this conversion. How do you pick that up?
VAN ZANDT: Well, you know, a couple of things. Number one, when we see
these new pictures of Coulibaly we see him posing with an AK-47. He`s
different dressed and things. That`s just something we`ve seen over the
years with suicide bombers. Where they were palls, they`ll make a video
before they actually go out and attack. And so, we see this kind of roll
over again in these situations. But the challenge for the authorities, say
like in France, for example, depending who you talk to, there are anywhere
from 400 to over 2,000 French passport holders who have fought against
coalition forces in the Middle East and come back to France.
Well, when you do the numbers that we`re told the last couple of days,
anywhere from ten to 20 police officers per person to conduct a 24-hour
surveillance. You can`t do it, Steve. You have to do like in a medical
emergency. You do a triage and you say, who`s the most critical person we
have to deal with medically, in this case as a terrorist? They put their
resources on that person, but some people are going to fall off. And I can
tell you, as an FBI agent having done this, sometimes you`re absolutely
correct and sometimes you cross your fingers and you hope you`re right
because you`ve got too many targets and too few people to cover all those
KORNACKI: Ambassador, let me ask you this, the prime minister of France
made a little bit of news yesterday saying, in his view that France is now
at war with radical Islam. Is that, is that the right way to be looking at
GINSBERG: Absolutely, Steve. Listen, the situation in France where I was
at just a few months ago is really dangerous. There has been a stream of
lone wolf attacks committed in the name of Islam that haven`t been reported
here. There have been attacks over the last six months against Jewish
businesses by Islamic extremists. There is sharp divisions within France
and the fact of the matter is that, after all, we all knew that Charlie
Hebdo had been a target, was a target of attack by Islamic extremists, have
been put on a let`s destroy them list by the leader of ISIS and by the
leader of Ayman al-Awlaki, and where was the security there? I mean the
French government is going to have to make a decision about what it`s going
to do with its porous borders, with its Islamic extremists, with the
ideology that is permitting not only extremists to make their way to the
Middle East and return, but what is the judicial process by which they are
going to be able to contain this while respecting civil liberties? It`s a
real problem that we faced here after 9/11 and it isn`t, as the French are
saying, and French as I listened to French radio this morning. It`s their
9/11 even though they have been subjected to Islamic extremism before 9/11.
There have been attacks on the metro in Paris in the `90s as a result of
the Algerian civil war.
This is nothing new to the French authorities and it`s a shame to see that
they have not been able to do enough to contain the social, as well as the
ideological and theological extremism that they`re now facing.
KORNACKI: All right, Ambassador Marc Ginsberg, Clint Van Zandt, I
appreciate your both getting up this morning. Thanks for the time.
What`s more still ahead this morning, is we - between the day`s big showing
of unity and defiance in Paris, all the news here in the political
headlines back home. But first, throughout the morning we want to make
sure to convey a clear picture of who some of this week`s victims are.
And one of them is Yohan Cohen. He was killed in Friday`s attack on a
kosher supermarket in Paris. He had worked to the market and according to
his cousin, he stepped in to protect a three-year-old boy. That`s when the
gunman killed Yohan instead. Yohan Cohen was 22 years old.
KORNACKI: All right. Welcome back. Looking at some live scenes here from
Paris. The crowds gathering for that unity rally that is expected to be
starting sometime within the hour. Some amazing pictures. Just the sheer
volume of people there you see on the wider shot. Just the volume of
people who have turned out for this. Obviously, still more time for more
to gather within the hour. That will be starting. We`ll be bring you live
coverage from there when that begins and updates, obviously, throughout the
show and throughout the morning.
Right now, though, we want to return to New York to our studio here
bringing our panel and talk about some of the stories here in the U.S.
making headlines on some political stories and some good news, I guess. If
you`re a Dallas cowboys fan. At least if you are a very superstitious
Dallas Cowboy, New Jersey Governor Chris Christie will be at today`s
Cowboys/Packers playoff game in Green Bay. And by now you probably know of
Christie`s love for the Cowboys who are 5-0 in games he`s attended this
season. Cowboys` owner Jerry Jones calling him part of the team`s mojo.
Here are some controversy when it was revealed that Jones paid for
Christie`s travel and tickets for the last weekend`s playoff game against
Detroit. Christie says this weekend he is going to be paying his own way
to Green Bay.
At the table with us, introduce our panel this morning, we have Suzy Khimm,
national reporter with MSNBC, Katie Packer Gage, a Republican consultant
who was the deputy campaign manager in the Romney 2012 team and Emily
Tisch-Sussman, she`s campaign director at the Center for American Progress
Action Fund. So, Chris Christie, the good luck charm for the Green Bay
SUZY KHIMM, MSNBC: Dallas Cowboys.
KORNACKI: Excuse me, yes, the Dallas Cowboys. So, it`s definitely not one
of the teams from the New York or Philadelphia area. That`s what we know.
So, what do you guys think of this? Because I`ve - I`ve always said that
what drives me nuts in politics are the politicians who pretend to like the
local team and it`s obvious they don`t care. Or it`s obvious they are from
somewhere else, and they have a - you know, so I`ve always respected the
politicians who are like kind of honest about that, but then again,
Christie in the owner`s box last week. I was like, you know, maybe sit in
the stands. Maybe - I don`t know. What do you guys think of this?
KATIE PACKER GAGE, REPUBLICAN CONSULTANT: I`m from Detroit. Not
necessarily a lions fan. But it was interesting, you know, there was a lot
of chatter after that game, you know, among Michiganders and, you know, I
spoke with a friend of mine who is the most diehard Detroit Lions fan and
he said, look, the guy`s been a fan his whole life. You know, I give a guy
credit for sticking with the guy - sticking with the team that he has been
rooting for his whole life. And, you know, I think, you know, it`s
interesting that Governor Perry isn`t the good luck charm for the Dallas
PACKER GAGE: So, I give Chris Christie some credit for managing to expand
KORNACKI: There you go.
KHIMM: So, what I really love about the story is that how much Christie
wants it to be. Classic pro-Christie kind of story. I`m the contrarian,
I`m going to say what I think and what I feel regardless of how it is. But
also how inevitably it also turns into the kind of anti-Christie story.
Then there is a likelihood - I mean what`s interesting is, is report from
"The Wall Street Journal" which shows that Jerry Jones was actually a co-
owner of a hospitality company that won a lucrative Port Authority bid that
Christie was involved with. Of course, Christie says that they weren`t
actually friends at the time and these had nothing - these two things had
nothing to do with each other, but it`s very interesting to me that he
can`t quite avoid that entire sort of web and that whole story line which
I`m sure is something that he wants to get.
KORNACKI: Yeah, that`s what I said. I`m like, the idea that like, Chris
Christie took Jerry Jones with some Port Authority contract so we could get
tickets to the game.
KORNACKI: You know, I doubt ...
KORNACKI: But it does get into like appearance thing that I`m talking
about. It`s like you know what, like if you`re the super fan of the
Cowboys and you happen in New Jersey. And that`s great. You can -
contrarian. But, you know, to me, it was like - just go down there on your
own dime and sit in the stands. Don`t be - it`s just when you`re in the
owner`s box and you are on national TV at that moment, you are sending a
message. But I don`t know. Maybe I ...
EMILY TISCH SUSSMAN, CENTER FOR AMERICAN PROGRESS: Don`t make it a whole
thing. Although he may be a life-long Cowboys fan. He is not from Dallas.
He is, actually, from New Jersey. And there is no lack of teams in New
Jersey for him to be rooting for. And the Giants, Jets in northern New
Jersey and they are equally as intense Eagles fan in southern New Jersey.
So, I think he actually may be miscalculating how intense ...
KORNACKI: Although he`s never - he probably never has to run in New
KORNACKI: You know, people ..
PACKER GAGE: ... to worry about for a Republican.
KORNACKI: Right. I mean hey, it`s a blue state in the general election
and term limit as governor.
KHIMM: I think Chris Christie is who Chris Christie is. And I think that
that`s - I mean I think, you know, talking about Port Authority contracts,
I mean, the guy is a Dallas cowboy fan. He`s rabidly a fan for the Dallas
Cowboys and I just think we`re overthinking it when we turn it into a big
TISCH SUSSMAN: Well, here is something that actually not overthinking.
There is something there, but I think that Suzy makes a great point, that a
lot of what Chris Christie is so proud of running on. You know, he doesn`t
care, he does his thing. Those perceptions flip really, really quickly.
You know, he started out by saying, he loves these image that he is that
guy and stand up to teachers and he does what he wants, but all of a sudden
when it started to come out with, you know, the Bridgegate and did he or
did he not know? All those perceptions flipped very quickly and in polling
language that you see from New Jersey residents who are saying he is a
bully and that is where he needs to be careful.
So, that ...
PACKER GAGE: But that doesn`t change Chris Christie. Chris Christie
continues to be who he is and he doesn`t run away from these things. And I
think at the end of the day, he`s going to say to the voters ...
KORNACKI: He does feel like the ultimate sort of political, what the
Rorschach test, you look at the ink button and you see what you`re going to
PACKER GAGE: Right.
KORNACKI: And some people see this - see the bully and some people see the
plain spoken guy.
PACKER GAGE: And I don`t think he`s going to change, because people don`t
like that he hugged Jerry Jones.
KORNACKI: Yeah, well, I know, I do - the other thing we know about him,
he`s stubborn. So, he`s - along as the Cowboys in the playout switch.
KHIMM: He`ll be on the field.
KORNACKI: Some of his hope ends today. But anyway, we`ll be right back
with some news, interesting developments on a Republican rivalry that not
many people saw coming and, obviously, more from Paris as well as the
morning continues. Back right after this.
KORNACKI: Live pictures you are getting from Paris. That big unity rally
expected to start minutes from now. Plenty of coverage on the show
throughout the day here on MSNBC. Back, though, with the panel here in New
York, though, and the "Washington Post" this morning, there is a report
that things are heating up between Mitt Romney and Jeb Bush now that Mitt
is considering a third presidential run. It`s reported that privately,
Romney has been raising concerns about Jeb`s ties to Barclays and others
and he`s voiced out about Bush`s political skills and his ability to beat
Hillary Rodham Clinton. Meanwhile, Jeb has publicly said that Mitt failed
to defend his business record and comparing his with Romney`s is like
"comparing an apple to a peanut."
Interesting there. So, Katie, Romney 2012 campaign, what do you make of
this? Because I was telling you off the air, I`m surprised. I did not
think Mitt Romney was going to make a move like this at this point. What
do you make watching all this playing out?
PACKER GAGE: You know, I`m not sure that it`s a huge move, I think that -
you know, a guy that runs for president twice has an interest in being
president. And, so that`s not surprising to me that he might, you know,
reserve the option.
KORNACKI: But it sounds like he is doing more than that, because the
timing on this, is, you know, Jeb Bush is making his big push for money.
It could start to float to him. That seemed like a very intentional.
PACKER GAGE: But you reserve the option if you say to people, yes, I`m
seriously considering it. And it sounds like that`s what he said to a
group of donors. I take him at his word. It sounds like he`s discussing
it with his family. You know, I think that he`s, you know, preserving the
option. That, you know, I think he`s got a long history with the Bush
family and, you know, it will be interesting to see how it plays out.
KORNACKI: Yes, Suzy, the idea, what I always thought was that Romney would
sort of wait and see if Bush flounder and if he did, then maybe Romney
would be the white knight who came in. But the idea that these two might
go head-to-head with each other now, people it seems like Republicans are
starting to grapple with this. This is not the race they necessarily
KHIMM: Yeah, I can sort of think - Romney saying himself, why not me?
That he feels like he has - this is potential he feels, like on the things
that he feels like Jeb is competitive on and with all this buzz with Jeb,
you know, generating all this interest. Moving so early. It sort of seems
like what sort of been interesting is how Jeb is already trying to position
himself as being like Romney, but without the things that you didn`t like
about Romney. He is releasing his tax returns.
KHIMM: Years of tax returns that he did early which was a big issue for
Romney, which he refused to do. His financial disclosure. He`s released
thousands of emails that he got while he was Florida governor. So, you
know, in terms of these two guys positioning themselves, I mean, they do
have a group of donors that are similar that, you know, in terms of being
the establishment candidate, if Romney is going to signal anything right
now, it might as well be before Jeb`s term.
KORNACKI: One of the articles in "The Post" we are talking about here, one
of the interesting things in there, it sounds like some of Jeb`s comments
and some of the things you`re talking about in terms of distancing himself
a little bit from Romney in 2012, they rubbed Romney the wrong way.
KORNACKI: Jeb Bush, second guessing him after the 2012 campaign, certainly
like on immigration and basically saying he catered too much to the base
and when Bush made that comment, a few weeks ago, that if you want to win
the general election, you have to be OK with losing the primary. That
seemed aimed at Romney a little bit. Say, hey, Romney a little too worried
about the Republican base. So, it sounds like there might be some personal
TISCH SUSSMAN: Well, the timing does seem interesting. This has certainly
been the week of Jeb Bush news. He opened his pack, he`s moving around and
he`s making tons of comments and then Romney just comes right on in and
sweeps in. I mean if this was a conversation, if this was a private
conversation with donors, it certainly got out. Like somebody is sending
that out there. He`s definitely ...
KORNACKI: Oh, that`s why I say, it seemed pretty clearly telegraphed move
TISCH SUSSMAN: I totally agree with you. I mean the thing that keeps it
really interesting if they both stay in, is that it keeps the conversation
on the Republican primary for months and months and months. It becomes a
very competitive primary where they`re trying to simultaneously occupy the
same space of business moderate and try to play a little bit to the outside
to the base. So, it keeps it going for months and months whereas on the
left, you know, in 2008, there was a very, obviously, a very serious
Democratic primary where all anybody was talking about, was Hillary versus
Obama. It wouldn`t be the same situation now. She`s pretty much cleared
the field of very strong Democratic candidates. So, it does give the
Republicans much more in the conversation for months.
KORNACKI: So Hillary likes the news this week.
Thanks to Emily Tisch-Sussman, with the Center for American Progress, MSNBC
Suzy Khimm, chief strategist Katie Packer Gage, I`ll see you a little bit
later in the show.
And still ahead, as we continue this morning, there`s a new - there`s a new
Congress. You might have heard about that one and a whole lot of new
questions. The Keystone pipeline. The Democrats who might vote with
McConnell and whether or not John Boehner gets revenge on people who just
try to throw him out as speaker. We`ll try to tackle some of those
questions and more. You won`t want to miss that.
And also, again, crowds growing now in Paris. You see the wide shot there.
Up to a million people expected to march and support in unity after those
attacks in Paris. We will show you these incredible pictures all morning.
KORNACKI: All right. Back. Looking at more live images in Paris. The
crowd is growing. That unity rally now just about a half an hour away.
More coverage of that on the show and throughout the day here on MSNBC.
With all that is happening in Paris this weekend, with all what`s going on
still this weekend, something else on the domestic political front here in
the United States got lost on Friday. The Republican-controlled House
passed a bill to approve the Keystone XL pipeline deal and now that moves
to the Senate where it could have enough votes to pass and to move to the
desk of President Obama who says he will veto it. Passing Keystone is
Mitch McConnell`s stated first goal of the new Congress. Republicans now
have 54 votes in the Senate. They are going to need 60 to overcome any
Democratic filibusters. "The Hill" newspaper has identified a group of
Democrats that McConnell thinks can get him there on Keystone and other key
votes that are coming up.
Meanwhile, in the House, Speaker John Boehner is still dealing with the
aftermath of a conservative rebellion this week. There have been reports
that Boehner`s exacting revenge by withholding committee memberships from
those who opposed him. It`s less clear if he is actually following through
on those threats. Joining me now, are two of the best reporters on Capitol
Hill. NBC News correspondent Luke Russert and Manu Raju, senior
congressional reporter at Politico. Manu, let me start with you on the
question of Keystone. Can you gain this out for us? Is this thing going
to get through the Senate this week? Is it going to get through with all
sorts of amendments attached to it? Is there any chance that President
Obama`s posture on this changes?
MANU RAJU, POLITICO: Well, it is going to get through. I don`t think it
is going to get through this week because of the Senate`s schedule, as well
as the fact that Mitch McConnell has promised to open up the process, allow
for scores and scores of votes. So, this could, this could play out up
until the State of the Union week and maybe even after the State of the
Union week. So, McConnell will get his 60 votes in the Senate. I don`t
think there is any doubt about that. But what he will not get is the 67
votes that he would need to override a presidential veto. So, that is the
dynamic that Boehner and McConnell are going to face, not just on Keystone,
but on a lot of key issues going forward. They may have the votes to get
out of the House and get enough moderate Democrats to get legislation
through the Senate, but they don`t have the votes to override a veto. So,
what do they do next? How do they please their conservative base without
making it appear that they`re caving to the White House`s demands?
KORNACKI: Yeah, and is there - there was this court ruling in Nebraska,
it`s a bit of a complicated thing. But the White House has been saying
they were waiting in part on this court ruling to make a decision on this.
Now the court has come forward and issued its decision and said the
pipeline can go ahead. Is there any thought, is there any possibility that
the White House gets into a political position here where they have to
RAJU: I think there is a possibility of that and I think that`s one of the
things when you heard the White House, to issue that veto threat against
the legislation moving through Congress, they were not necessarily saying
that they opposed building the pipeline, they opposed Congress forcing
their hand and they said there is a process already playing out, one of
which was that court case, but while another State Department review over
this project, there is a chance, outside chance that the president does
actually approve this pipeline, but probably not because of what Congress
is doing. But if he does do that, Steve, as you know, it will provoke a
lot of concern from folks on the left. So, at this point, I`m pretty
skeptical that he`s going to go against his base on this.
KORNACKI: All right. Other side of Capitol Hill now, Luke, the question
of the House. We saw that drama play out this week with the John Boehner.
You have to have that very public vote for speaker. 25 Republicans voting
for somebody else. Some interesting names were offered up by some of those
Republicans. So, what is going on now? The headlines after that where
John Boehner is going to get revenge. Is he getting revenge? What is the
aftermath of that?
LUKE RUSSERT, NBC NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Well, as of right now it is unclear
whether or not he is, in fact, getting revenge. There was speculation and
as of right now it is true that he was removing two of those members who
rebelled against him from their post on the rules committee. That`s,
obviously, up to his discretion who serves on that and the Republican side.
But as far as the large-scale clean out that a lot of his allies wanted in
terms of putting real pressure on these rebels and really trying to bring
them to the woodshed for lack of better words, he has not done that.
Boehner, as you mentioned, faced 25 people in opposition to his
speakership. I actually asked him about that. I said, why is there such
fervent conservative opposition to your speakership? Not only from these
people in Congress, but also from outside operators, specifically in the
talk radio world. The conservative blogosphere. He said to me, look, it
frustrates me. I`m the eighth most conservative speaker dating back to my
time in the House. I`m not a squish. I`m not spineless. I`m the most
anti-establishment speaker we ever had here. So, that`s what Boehner feels
like. I think it`s really emblematic, where the Republican Party is now,
Steve. That someone like John Boehner who, in fact, does have a very
conservative voting record. If you go back to 1990 when he first came in,
him being considered a squish by the outside conservative forces.
All that being said, if you want to see who won this battle between Boehner
and the conservatives and the speakership, well, Boehner won because he
remained speaker. But look at the immigration bill that House Republicans
moved out on Friday, they decided to move out on Friday and they`ll vote on
it come this Wednesday. It repeals DACA, it repeals the president`s last
executive order on immigration. So, you`re seeing an immigration bill move
very far to the right and - to happen. Actually, that contains a speaker
vote. So, up to the unity side who really want that battle.
RUSSERT: Yes. Sounds like the conservatives getting what they want on
that. My thanks on NBC News` Luke Russert and from Politico, Manu Raju, we
appreciate you both getting up this morning.
And on the other side of this break, we`re going to return to Paris. You
see again there more images from that big rally that is only minutes away.
Live from there right after this.
KORNACKI: All right. You are looking live there, again. This is an
overhead shot in Paris. Hundreds of thousands of people, organizers saying
maybe up to a million will turn up today. Who knows, maybe even more for
that big unity rally that is scheduled to start at the top of the hour,
just minutes from now. Quite a scene there in Paris. Quite a turnout for
this today. A lot of people coming out to show -- to show after a very
emotional week what they`re feeling about what they want for the future.
Keeping an eye on that, obviously, bringing you live coverage when that
begins and more updates in the minutes ahead.
But right now, turning back to domestic politics. President Obama taking a
victory lap of sorts on Friday.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: One of my resolutions is to make sure that folks across this great
country feel like they are coming back. And there is no doubt, thanks to
the steps that we took early on to rescue our economy and to rebuild it on
a new foundation, America is coming back.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KORNACKI: President Obama talking on Friday about the latest jobs number
that came out that day. Some very positive numbers. 2014 was the best
year for hiring in 15 years, since Bill Clinton was president back in 1999.
Good news for the Obama administration, you would think, or is it, as the
president himself pointed out in those remarks, America may be coming back
strong, but are Americans actually feeling that comeback? Strong numbers
also present a dilemma for Republicans. As Paul Krugman writes in his "New
York Times" column this week, the Republicans quote, "expected to run in
2016 against a record of failure, what do they do if the economy is looking
pretty good?" So who is going to benefit most politically if the economy
does continue to bounce back, if Americans don`t bounce along with them? We
have two people on opposite sides of the spectrum to talk about this. We
will get to them right after the break. We have Austan Goolsbee and Jimmy
Pethokoukis, you are looking at them there and they`re coming up to talk
about this, right after this.
KORNACKI: All right, we`re just minutes away. About 10 minutes away from
the start of that massive rally in Paris. Looking at more images there.
All the different flags from all the different nations represented you can
see in that shot. Hundreds of thousands of people, maybe up to a million
people, again maybe even more than that, expected today for this event. A
huge turnout already you can see from these pictures, and, again, about ten
minutes away from that rally starting, we`ll be going back there once that
begins. We`ll have complete coverage throughout the morning for you.
But here now as we mentioned, with us to talk about the economy back here
in the United States and the big political question of who gets the credit,
who gets the blame, we`re getting into a place here, we start talking about
who gets the credit, with good numbers like this. As we`ve mentioned,
Austan Goolsbee, former chief economist for the Obama White House, now a
professor at the University of Chicago. He joins us, and so does James
Pethokoukis with the American Enterprise Institute, also a CNBC analyst.
So, Jim, let me start with you. A little bit more on the right here and
just put the basic question to you. Unemployment is down to 5.6 percent,
job creation is on the rise. Some very, very positive and very encouraging
numbers. I imagine if a Republican had been elected in 2012, we`d be
hearing about how the Republicans turned the economy around. Do the
Democrats and does President Obama get some credit for this?
JAMES PETHOKOUKIS, AMERICAN ENTERPRISE INST.: A Republican was not elected
in 2012, and we`re still hearing how the Republicans are responsible for
it. I`m not even sure how that makes a difference. Will people in 2016
credit Obama`s policies for an economy assuming it`s still unemployment
rate continues to drop and continue to add jobs, GDP continues to grow.
Are they going to give the Obama policies, which may be followed by Hillary
Clinton or some other nominee, the credit? I don`t know. It took a real
long time for the economy to turn around. Remember back in the `80s, the
economy turned around very quickly under the Reagan economic plan. It has
taken a long time for the economy to turn around here in the 2000s. And
listen, if I was going to give someone credit, listen, I would give the Fed
credit. I would give the Fed`s bond buying policies, the massive monetary
expansion. You know, Yellen is not up for election, Bernanke is not up for
election. That`s who I would give most of the credit to.
KORNACKI: All right. Austan, it sounds like you have something to say to
that. Doesn`t sound like he has something to say. We have audio problems.
It was my producer telling me we couldn`t go to Austan. I`m sorry about
that. Jim, let me ask you --
PETHOKOUKIS: What Austan Goolsbee would say is, listen, Obama had a
stimulus, Republicans were against it. How come we`re not giving the
stimulus any credit? I think the reason we`re not giving the stimulus any
credit is because the stimulus ended all the way back in 2011 when the
economy wasn`t doing particularly well, and what big new thing happened
KORNACKI: Now I`m being told Austan is back. Austan, it sounds like you
wanted to get in there, but also, so James is bringing up the issue now of
the stimulus and the timing of this and basically saying, look, the first
thing President Obama got through in 2009 was the stimulus. What has he
gotten through on a big scale in the last few years? It does not seem like
much. So if it took this long, does he really deserve that much credit?
AUSTAN GOOLSBEE, FORMER WHITE HOUSE CHIEF ECONOMIST: A, I think he
deserves some credit. But B, let`s just remember how this is going to
work. People are going to go in 2016 and there is a large mass of people
who are not following the exact policy fights and what was the date that
the Dodd Frank legislation was passed. They`re going to go out and they
are going to say, am I feeling better than I was four years ago, eight
years ago? Do I think the Democrats have been doing a good job? And if the
economy is doing well, there are going to be more people who think that.
If the economy is not doing well, there will be fewer.
Now, it`s not unlike, you saw Mitch McConnell this past week as Jimmy said,
going out and trying to take credit. Well, really, it was the McConnell
economy. And that same thing happened under Bill Clinton. Newt Gingrich
came out as the economy began getting better and started saying, no, no,
it`s because the Republicans won in 1994. But I would simply point out, we
don`t remember it as the Gingrich economy. And they`re not going to
remember it as the Mitch McConnell economy.
KORNACKI: Jim, go ahead.
PETHOKOUKIS: I was going to say, listen. Austan makes some good points.
Whoever is the president they tend to get a lot of credit or blame for the
economy. But in 2016, I wonder if rather than thinking gee, are we better
off now than we were four years ago or eight years ago, are people going to
think, gee, is my family going to be better off four years from now or
eight years from now? Is the U.S. better positioned to grow in the future
than it was maybe eight years ago? What is going on with upward mobility?
What is going on with wage stagnation? Can we finance all our entitlement
programs? Those are real open questions and I think that is what 2016 is
going to be about.
KORNACKI: It does at a more basic level, you know, fair or not, it`s like
a manager in baseball. Right? Like maybe the team was 95-67 because you
are a good manager or maybe you just have good players. But either way you
get credit for it. If in 2016 these trend lines continue, Democrats do
stand to get a pretty big windfall, don`t they?
PETHOKOUKIS: I wonder, do we care about the quality? We have talked a lot
about that. We are creating a lot of new jobs. But, still, all I`ve heard
is that for the past 30 years, the economy has been terrible because wages
haven`t gone up. Now, all of a sudden, wages aren`t going up, but, I am
hearing gee, the economy is actually pretty good. I thought that was
important. Are people`s living standards rising? Are their incomes going
up? That remains a huge problem.
GOOLSBEE: I think that`s true.
KORNACKI: Austan, if we could think ahead to next year, to say there is a
debate in 2016, there is a Democrat up there and there is a Republican up
there, what is the case from Democrats of saying, hey, American voter after
eight years, this is the most important thing that we have done? These are
the most important things we have done to put the economy in a better
position? What is the message?
GOOLSBEE: It is a good question. I think this is correct. We shouldn`t
look at this as this is the best boom that we`ve ever had. Because it
isn`t. It`s a solid recovery. We are better off than we were four years
ago. There are still weak spots in the economy, and I fear that people may
get a little too far ahead of themselves thinking, oh, yes, it is going to
be like the year 1999 when the stock market was up 35 percent and growth
I think we have a solid progress, and the issues of a 2016 election, I
think, are probably going to be about middle class income growth and the
rising standard of living. I think Democrats are going to say here are the
things we`ve done. We`ve re-regulated Wall Street. We avoided the
depression. We have put ourselves back on a path where at least the
economy is growing in a lot of industries, like manufacturing, and we`re
trying to rebuild, training to get people`s incomes up, and they`re
probably going to contrast with what the Republicans are proposing.
They are going to say, well, do you think we would have been better off
doing what the Republicans are saying we should do now, which is go slash
investments and a whole bunch of things and let a bunch of industries go
under and promote, you know, the policies they`ve been promoting. I think
it will be a good election, because if the economy is growing at a moderate
to positive pace, it will probably be a close contest.
KORNACKI: Obviously, the incumbent party always wants the better the
economic news, at least the political science rule would be the better it
is for the incumbent party. But, obviously, a lot of time between now and
then. So this is a debate that will continue to evolve. But right now,
thank you to Austan Goolsbee, former Obama White House chief economist, and
James Pethokoukis with AEI, appreciate the time this morning.
Another full hour of news and politics still ahead. That big Paris rally
going to be under way any moment now. Some final shots there. We`ll have
more on the other side of this. Stay with us.
KORNACKI: Thanks for staying with us this Sunday morning. Right now at
the top of the hour, a massive crowd, possibly a million people, based on
these pictures possibly more even, are starting a rally in a show of unity,
this in Paris. We`ll also be checking in on some of the many stories
making headlines this morning here at home, including a fun deep dive into
how the good old-fashioned political photo-op is morphing for the digital
age. Right now leaders from all over Europe arriving to show solidarity
with the French people. The French president, Francois Hollande, is
expected to stand with his political rival, former President Nicolas
Sarkozy. Hollande telling the nation Friday, that quote, "unity is our
best weapon." In fact, 81percent of the French public surveyed tell a
Paris newspaper that they are ready to come and pay respects. A German
newspaper in Hamburg meanwhile that reprinted cartoons from "Charlie Hebdo"
was the target of an arson attack early this morning. No direct link has
been established. Nobody was hurt in that incident either. Ballistics
have now linked one of the Paris gunmen to another shooting, and his
girlfriend, who is the subject of a manhunt, is now thought to be in Syria.
So there are a lot of moving parts this morning. NBC`s Ron Allen is live
at that rally, just getting under way any minute now. Ron, take it away.
Just set the scene for us over there.
RON ALLEN, NBC NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Well, Steve, this rally has been going
on for a couple of hours. If you look at it from the broader perspective,
it`s going on for several days. There are literally tens of thousands of
people gathered in the square here behind me that you can see, and this is
just the beginnings of it. They`ve been out here since early in the
morning. People from all across the city, perhaps all across the country.
You quoted that poll that said 80 percent of the people of France say they
want to participate. The president has asked for everyone to join this
march to show unity and solidarity.
There are leaders from all over the world, at least 50 of them here
gathered, as well. Including U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder, leaders
from Europe, leaders from the Middle East, leaders from Africa as well, all
here trying to send the same message, that they will not be intimidated by
terrorism and that they will stand with the French people, and that this
attack that has taken the lives of 17 French people so far, French citizens
so far, will just not be acceptable.
There was a meeting this morning about anti-terrorism tactics and pledges
to move forward on new initiatives. But the main aspect of today is to
hear the voices of the people. The voices of the people who are gathered
here and across Paris.
The march route is about two miles. They`ll head off in this direction to
the Place de Nationale, which is also in the center of the city. All
morning we`ve been hearing chants of "I am Charlie, we are Charlie."
Liberation. You can see behind me, perhaps, there are flags from all over
the world here. Those marchers and demonstrators have taken over the
center of that huge monument there. They have been up there singing and
dancing and chanting. Flags from Turkey, Israel, there is a woman here
with a hat from Colombia, there is a man behind me over there with a flag
on his hat from Haiti. Just a complete United Nations show of support
here. And whether they make a million people or not, probably no one will
know for sure, but the message will be sent loud and clear that this
country is trying to be united. Trying, I say, because there are deep
divisions here that have come in broad relief since the attacks. Certainly
the Jewish community here feels under siege, the Muslim community feels
that they are being blamed for what has happened. There have been perhaps
a dozen or more attacks reported, minor incidents, somewhat minor incidents
I should say that have been taking (ph) lives in the Muslim communities,
and we know, of course, the horror that happened in the Jewish community,
the attack, the siege, the hostage taking at the supermarket several days
ago, that took the lives of at least four people.
The families of those four victims, the Jewish families will lead the
march, along with the president of France and others. Again, just a
tremendous show of unity here, the crowd building. Just tremendous
enthusiasm and energy here, unlike anything. They`re saying that France is
the capital of the world today. A historic and unprecedented gathering of
people here in the center of Paris. Steve, back to you.
KORNACKI: NBC News` Ron Allen live at that rally. As you can see there,
it looks like they`re getting ready to start that march any second now.
And just keep those pictures up on the screen for you too, an amazing
gathering there. Live pictures from Paris are obviously hugely
encouraging, but unifying France after this week`s deadly terror attack
will be no easy task. France`s far right party, the National Front, is
already blasting the French government for not inviting them to participate
in that rally today. The party leader, Marine Le Pen, saying quote, "There
is no longer national unity. It has disappeared because of their actions."
A lot of attention that keeps the French melting pot from actually melting
dates back to France`s colonial past, where massive riots in 2005 and 2007
in a Paris suburb, home to many of the French Muslims who feel segregated
there. Several mosques across France have been hit with bullets or small
explosives in the wake of this week`s attacks. A pig`s head was hung on a
door of a prayer hall in Corsica.
France has also seen an uptick in anti-Semitism in recent years. We`re
going to talk now about whether today`s show of solidarity will have a
lasting impact, and here to discuss that we have New York Times columnist
Roger Cohen, who served as the paper`s Paris correspondent for several
years. He is the author of "The Girl from Human Street," a new memoir
about Jewish identity. And we`re also joined by Republican Congressman
Charlie Dent from Pennsylvania, who serves on two House subcommittees
overseeing homeland security and state and foreign operations. Roger, let
me just start with you. You just heard this report. We`re taking in all
these images. You`re looking at them with the rest of us. That question
of can this giant gathering today do anything to overcome those divisions
we`re talking about in France? What is your reaction to that?
ROGER COHEN, NEW YORK TIMES: Well, first of all, Steve, it`s wonderful to
see such unity, to see Europe united, the French united, and in the city of
the enlightenment, the city that symbolizes freedom. But there is no
question as we know from post-9/11, that unity can fray very quickly. And
the fissures, the divisions as your correspondent just pointed out that
exist in France are enormous. It`s the largest Muslim community in Europe.
It`s the largest Jewish community in Europe, and the guys, the Kouachi
brothers, who went into this devastating action at "Charlie Hebdo," they
began with petty crime, they began with exclusion. And there is prejudice
and alienation within French society that needs to be addressed, and that
KORNACKI: How does that get addressed I guess is the question?
COHEN: I think that the leaders of the Jewish community, the leaders of
the Muslim community in France need to speak out, there needs to be
dialogue. I don`t know if Pope Francis can play a role in bringing people
together. Right now in Paris, you have Prime Minister Netanyahu of France,
of Israel I`m sorry, and the leader of the Palestinian Authority, Mahmoud
Abbas. Wouldn`t it be amazing if they shook hands just to demonstrate
unity? Just to demonstrate that peace is possible? Wouldn`t that be an
incredible gesture? I doubt it will happen, but these are the kind of
gestures, Steve, that I think can begin to stimulate dialogue.
KORNACKI: And tell us a little bit about, we`re talking about the National
Front. This is sort of a far right nationalist party in France, but it`s
been gaining a lot of strength in the last year. So they have not been
invited to participate in this today. Does that hurt the effort you`re
COHEN: I think it probably does hurt it. You know the backdrop in Europe,
Steve, that makes this situation even more dangerous and even more
combustible is the fact that Europe has been in a long depression. There`s
very high unemployment. There is a sense of frustration and anger, and
there is a tendency to look for a scapegoat, like always happens in these
situations. That scapegoat is immigrants. And Marine Le Pen`s National
Front party has built on that.
I think to deliberately exclude them and say you`re not invited is
unhelpful. If there had been members of -- supporters of the National
Front who wanted to take part in the demonstration, I personally have
nothing against that. I think the French need to work very hard at
examining every aspect of their society and ways in which prejudice - you
get in a cab in France, and first thing you`re likely to hear is some
diatribe against the Muslim population. People need to think about what
they say, and leaders of the Muslim community in Europe need to examine
what is happening within the religion, and find ways to denounce those who
hijacked the religion in the name of a murderous ideology.
KORNACKI: Congressman, let me bring you into this. We have the pictures
up on the screen. You are taking them in, you are taking the images in
with the rest of us. What is your reaction to what you see unfolding in
France this morning?
REP. CHARLIE DENT, R-PENNSYLVANIA: I`m pleased to see the French people
coming together in the aftermath of this horrible terrorist attack. But I
think there is a bigger issue that we have to be concerned about in the
U.S. from our own security standpoint, it is this. A real vulnerability
for the United States is the radicalization of many European citizens.
Those European citizens can travel into the United States on a visa waver
program. That makes us somewhat vulnerable. And we must rely on our
European partners to help us identify those who have these radical
We know that somewhere around 3,000 Europeans have joined the fight in
Syria. We believe about 150 Americans have joined the fight in Syria.
It`s essential that we keep eyes on these bad actors, and not just the
people who have gone to Syria. You don`t have to go to Syria to become a
terrorist, but particularly those individuals we have to keep an eye on
Frankly, I`m pleased to watch the people in France speaking out today. I
mean, this was an attack on freedom of expression, freedom generally, and,
sadly, we`ve seen these attacks before. Salman Rushdie and "Satanic
Verses." We saw the Danish cartoonist who had the images of the Prophet
Mohammed with rockets coming out of his turban. Theo Van Gogh was shot and
killed in the street, he was a filmmaker. So, we have had to endure these
types of assaults on our freedoms by this fanatical ideology, and I think
it`s important for us now to figure out how we`re going to confront these
types of actors going forward. Al Qaeda and other terrorist groups, ISIS,
I believe they are going to try to identify more soft targets like we`ve
seen here at France at "Charlie Hebdo" and at the kosher market. So, I
think we have to be much more vigilant about these types of attacks that
are going to be directed at soft targets that are going to be much harder
for us to prevent. So we have to have eyes on these potential (inaudible).
KORNACKI: Congressman, in terms of the domestic front here, we should say
a little bit of news this morning. The White House announcing that on
February 18th, they`re going to convene a summit on countering violent
extremism. This in the wake of the attacks in Paris and several other
recent attacks. Also the White House pointing out this morning that they
have had in place a program, a plan to prevent violent extremism
domestically since 2011. You`re talking about the challenges you`re facing
now, Congressman. How prepared do you think we are at this point for the
threat of something like this happening here, for stopping something like
this from happening here?
DENT: Well, there was a time that I thought the United States, that the
American Muslim population was much less susceptible to radicalization. I
wish that was the case. I believe they are less susceptible than say the
Europeans, because the Europeans don`t do a very good job integrating their
Muslim populations into broader society. But in the U.S., Jihad Jane was
my constituent. You know, of European ancestry, she became radicalized
over the Internet. Now, she was operationally sloppy.
I`m very concerned about what we can do to counter these types of attacks.
Let`s face it, Anwar al-Awlaki, the American born cleric who was operating
out of Yemen. That individual, he was putting out how-to manuals in his
magazine, "Inspire," trying to teach people around the world how to conduct
a terror attack, in colloquial English. I am concerned. And we have
pockets in our own country. We have seen instances, certainly we`re
concerned about some folks operating out of Minneapolis. We had those
Americans out of Virginia who are ethnic Pakistani, who also are becoming
radicalized, and we took them down before they became operational. So I`m
anxious to see what the White House has to say on this subject. We`re
going to have to work together on this. I`m not at all convinced this is
going to be an easy task.
KORNACKI: Roger, let me ask you, your thoughts on that. The idea of the
divisions you`re talking about in France, the differences between the
United States and France. How vulnerable we are to something like this?
COHEN: I think one good thing about this in a way, Steve, if there is
anything good, is that Europeans have tended to underestimate the threat.
They tend to say, ah, the Americans are exaggerating. They have been
impacted by 9/11. I think the Europeans, particularly the French, are
conscious of the intelligence failures that have happened up to now, and
what the congressman is saying is exactly right. There has to be much
stronger intelligence cooperation and a realization that there are
thousands of people drifting off, young Muslims, who are alienated, whether
here or over in Europe, drifting off to Syria and Iraq, and then when they
come back, it`s a very fluid situation. It`s difficult to handle. But the
danger at this point is more than evident.
KORNACKI: As we found out so tragically this week.
I want to thank Republican Congressman Charlie Dent from Pennsylvania,
Roger Cohen, long-time foreign correspondent for "The New York Times."
Again, that rally now under way. You`re looking at live pictures from
there. We`re going to squeeze in a break here. When we come back on the
other side, Ronan Farrow, MSNBC`s Ronan Farrow, will join us live with his
report - excuse me, that`s a little bit later in the show, but we`ll have
more obviously from France, from that rally, images throughout the show and
more reports in the next hour. Stay with us.
KORNACKI: A couple minutes ago, Ron Allen described Paris this hour as the
capital of the world. Based on these pictures, it sounds like he`s right.
The Paris rally, as you can see, under way right now. The crowd estimates
for this thing we have heard up to a million people. Very tough to say,
but certainly hundreds of thousands, probably over half a million, and
again, that number could even be reaching a million people. We`ll be
returning for Ronan Farrow`s impressions. He`s on the ground there as
well, in just a bit.
Right now, though, bring it back to New York, to our panel to catch up on
some of the other stories that are buzzing this morning. We have our panel
back with us. MSNBC`s Suzy Khimm, Katie Packer Gage, Republican
consultant, and Emily Tisch Sussman, with the Center for American Progress
Action Fund. So, I have in my hand here a bunch of different headlines of
varying seriousness that are making news in the United States. I thought
we`d go through some of these. What people might be talking about in some
parts of the country this morning.
Here is one from "The Des Moines Register," news out of Iowa yesterday,
always that critical first caucus state, the Iowa Republican Party has
voted to preserve the straw poll. 16-0 was the vote. They held it before
every presidential election since 1980. It is going to be this August.
The question on this one is always, does it matter? I think Michele
Bachmann won the last straw poll, Pat Robertson won. Not a great barometer,
and they always, the campaigns buy up tickets to this thing, and sort of is
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Boo, boo, boo.
KORNACKI: The Romney, this thing gave the Romney people headaches, right?
PACKER-GAGE: We won it in 2008. But I was quoted this week in the "Des
Moines Register" on this issue, and I think that Iowa has got the caucuses.
They should be happy with their first in the nation status, they should not
be extorting money.
PACKER-GAGE: It`s absurd the amount of money these candidates are forced
to spend to win something that is so meaningless.
KORNACKI: That`s the thing I wondered. So meaningless they show up this
KHIMM: Dr. Ben Carson is very happy.
PACKER-GAGE: I predict that he will not win and will be less happy after
the caucus or the straw poll.
KORNACKI: But these are his people. No, I could see.
KHIMM: -- generate some buzz. (inaudible), in a field that is expected to
be as big as this, you`ll have candidates like this, that are a little bit
more outside of the mainstream, let`s say, who are going to be eager to get
PACKER-GAGE: My advice to Republican candidates, just say no.
KORNACKI: They all stay away, and then there is the one who says, they`re
staying away, I can get the headlines. That`s the other thing.
TISCH SUSSMAN: It is money in the door. It is (inaudible), more hand
shaking, get a little bump in the news. Why would I ever give this up?
PACKER-GAGE: The governor there has been very outspoken against it.
KORNACKI: I could see it, too. His influence would be a little bit higher
maybe if they don`t have it. All sorts of agendas here.
Couple other things making headlines. Here`s one, oh, actually, I`m told
so now as you can see, we`re showing you live on the screen here, going
back to that rally in Paris. You got David Cameron, the British prime
minister, French President Hollande, taking position right now, Nicolas
Sarkozy, he was the predecessor in France. He is there today. His rival,
he`s showing unity with. Angela Merkel, the German chancellor, she is
there, as well. A lot of major European leaders, major world leaders, as
you can see in this shot right now, gathering. They`re going to be leading
this march in Paris, taking a live look there. There you can see Angela
Merkel in the middle of the screen. Trying to see if I can pick out any
others here. But obviously an interesting gathering. When you see
Hollande and Sarkozy gathered together like that, the idea of unity really
starts to hit home a little bit. Those are two pretty fierce rivals in
French politics. So actually, we`ll stay on this shot a little bit just to
watch this crowd take shape, but this is an interesting, an interesting
scene right now. We`re talking about the importance of unity and look what
we have got gathered here right now.
TISCH SUSSMAN: Yeah, I mean, this is really historic to have all these
people together. I think it does, it does send a great message that,
especially to have the inclusion of Muslim leaders there, that this, that
nobody really, the leaders do not believe that this is mainstream, this is
mainstream Muslim culture. I think that is incredibly important.
KORNACKI: It`s just seeing who else we can pick out in the shot here right
now. Obviously, this will be getting going any minute right now. But also
it leads to the question, we were asking this in the last segment about
what will come after this, because the unity rally is an important thing
and it`s a powerful statement, but the question is, does that translate
into any real change, you know, in France and in Europe and in the world.
KHIMM: What is really interesting is that this crisis is also coming at a
point in which the way we usually talk about European unity through the
currency unit. Through the European Union, in which that is facing its own
crisis and sort of leading to questions about how, what kind of financial,
as well as sort of political cooperation is possible, and it has become
clear that regardless of what happens with EU and the currency, that there
is going to need to be a coordinated effort amongst European countries to
respond to a threat like this.
KORNACKI: Some of the other leaders you might be seeing in the shot right
there. You can see in the middle of the screen there, Mahmoud Abbas, the
head of the Palestinian Authority. Benjamin Netanyahu, the prime minister
of Israel. I believe in the shot right now, and I believe we saw him a
second ago. So, again, some major world leaders, you can see all gathering
in one place right there to lead that march, which should be beginning any
second right now. That rally sort of under way around them. You`re
looking up to we say a million people potentially out in the streets today
for this. So just a major turnout. We have to squeeze a break in here.
But, obviously, much more from Paris and much more from this rally as we
continue on this show, and MSNBC`s Ronan Farrow of course is in the midst
of that crowd, and he`ll be here to tell us all about that, and, obviously,
more from the world of politics, as well. We`ll be back right after this.
KORNACKI: All right. Taking you back to Paris now. Live right now. That
march about, as we say, you could see images there, (inaudible), from
moments ago. I think that march beginning. All those world leaders led by
the president of France, by his long-time political rival as well, you see
Angela Merkel, the German chancellor there, others we saw, Benjamin
Netanyahu, David Cameron, Mahmoud Abbas. All gathered in one place, all
going to lead a very, very large crowd. That formal rally getting under
way right now in Paris. Ronan Farrow actually, MSNBC`s Ronan Farrow is
standing by, he is on the scene. Ronan, can you tell us what`s going on
right now? What you`re seeing?
RONAN FARROW, MSNBC: Steve, as you mentioned, the world leaders here just
kicked off this march. Hollande was scheduled to do so several minutes
ago, and people are now on the move, as you reported. This is an
unprecedented moment, Steve. We`re hearing more than a million people. We
may never get a firm estimate on that, but if true, that is the largest
demonstration in France since France was liberated from the Nazis. Some
different sports events that would potentially rival that, but in terms of
demonstrations, this is it. And it`s also more multi-cultural than just
about anything we`ve seen in terms of political demonstrations. Behind me
you can see flags on the monument here in the Place de Republique, flags
ranging from Algeria to Morocco to all over the world. Even the
individuals behind me. The gentleman here is from Iran, we`ve got people
from everywhere here, and from all different walks of life. Steve, it`s so
significant to see that after a week that`s revealed such deep fault lines,
ethnic, religious, political, within French society. I made my way from
one end of this crowd to the other. The sentiment is not just unity in
word. It really is in action as people literally join arms here.
KORNACKI: Ronan, we`re looking at shots, again, of the world leaders
gathering. They`re marching and they are sort of starting and stopping
right now. That march is under way.
Ronan, talking about all those flags and that sort of international display
there. All the different countries represented in their colors. What is
your sense on that? Are these people who have come from around the world to
be here today? Are these French people, French citizens showing off their
sort of ancestral roots? Do you have a sense, is this a crowd that has
come from across Europe?
FARROW: As you would expect, it is, indeed, predominantly French here.
There is a high quotient of people who have come from far away, from all
over the world, certainly from all over Europe to experience this moment.
It`s a destination event. We spoke to people who just came here for this
several hour period, who came from several countries away even, to be here
for these few hours. People understand that this is a big moment. This is
a big moment to push back, and a lot of the feelings of insecurity, the
feelings of disharmony that have afflicted Europe more and more over the
last several years.
KORNACKI: And again, looking at those live shots again. That march now is
moving, once again. As I say, they seem to be starting and stopping.
Ronan, can you tell us where they are going to, where are they are coming
from exactly and where they are going to?
FARROW: So the march starts right here, and it will go across the city
along three different routes. We`re not sure which of those routes the
world leaders are going to take. That is for security reasons. But we`re
watching closely to see. There is one route, the northernmost one, I don`t
know if you have a map there, that branches off slightly. So we`ll be
keeping you posted on where exactly Hollande ends up going.
One interesting thing is that as all of this is happening, we`re getting
more and more breaking news about the actual security situation here and
about the investigation into the attacks. Of course, you`ve been following
this news that bullet casings have revealed that a shooter behind a
seemingly random attack several days before the "Charlie Hebdo" incident --
I`m sorry, it was exactly 24 hours before the "Charlie Hebdo" incident, it
was actually related to the supermarket shooting. The gun found in the
supermarket revealed that. So people in the crowd that I was talking to
were reacting to that when they could get cell phone service. Of course,
with a million people here, some don`t have service at all.
The other big piece of news that people are reacting to is this intimation
that Hayat Boumeddine is still on the run and may have left the country.
People are following the news about this, Steve, as they try to celebrate a
turning point that represents moving beyond it.
KORNACKI: Ronan, what are you hearing from people on the street just in
terms of, you are mentioning the security issue, the security failure, the
status of the potential accomplice obviously on people`s minds. What else
are you hearing from them?
FARROW: One big theme, of course, is that feeling of ethnic, religious,
political disharmony, and the desire to move past that. But I have spent
time all through today and the last several days in various minority
communities. Today we were in Jewish neighborhoods talking to people in
that community, and there are still a lot of fears going into this big
moment of trying to join arms and move past those fears. Jewish shops in
some of those predominantly Jewish neighborhoods locking their doors and
looking suspiciously when potential customers arrive, fearing for their
lives in some cases because there have been anti-Semitic attacks in this
country, even before this last week. All through the crowds, you`ll see
not just "je suis Charlie" signs but also "I am Jewish" signs, "I am
So there is an attempt to move past, as I`ve said, but also, still very,
very deep seeded resentments and fears here, Steve.
KORNACKI: And I wonder as we are continuing to look at those pictures of
the leaders now marching, and, again, they are led by the French president
there, his old political rival, you have Netanyahu is in there, Mahmoud
FARROW: Steve, you mentioned the French president. I should point out,
there are extraordinary measures to protect those world leaders. You
mentioned Abbas, and of course extraordinarily, Bibi Netanyahu, also here
at the same time. Eric Holder is here from the U.S. All of those leaders
have their own security details, as well as, of course, the considerable
security. We`re hearing more than 5,000 security personnel right here
looking down at all of this. Snipers on rooftops that we`ve seen,
plainclothed officers, but also some overt officers, both police and
military. This place is really, really wired for security. And still a
lot of people I talked to in this crowd aren`t convinced that it`s enough.
This is a porous situation. People are allowed to enter, they`re not being
searched. The idea that someone could bring in a weapon and open fire is
something that`s very much on the minds of some I`ve talked to.
KORNACKI: Ronan, stand by, and obviously we`ll keep running those pictures
for everybody, the video of that march of those world leaders, those
heavily protected world leaders. Suzy Khimm, back here in the panel in New
York, you wanted to say something.
KHIMM: No, I just had a question for Ronan and sort of a question going
forward. Which is in terms of this desire to heal some of these rifts, not
only sort of the anti-Semitic attacks that have happened as well as the
anti-immigrant and anti-Muslim sentiment that has risen and that some
political parties in France have capitalized upon, I`m wondering what
folks` ideas actually are in terms of how to move forward with that kind of
agenda. What concrete steps other than these kind of important symbolic
measures that can actually be taken to begin to move in that direction to
actually reform things in France.
KORNACKI: How about that, Ronan. Go ahead.
FARROW: You bring up a tremendously important point there. There aren`t
concrete proposals on the table that will get at those deep seeded issues
about broader immigration policies, broader social policies that make many
of these groups feel disenfranchised.
KORNACKI: We -- yeah, sorry, it sounds like Ronan`s audio might have cut
out there. We`ll try to get him back as fast as we can. Actually we`ll
get a quick break and try to fix that audio issue. As you can see, again,
those world leaders marching in Paris right now. Big crowds all around and
heavy security all around him, obviously. Going to take a quick break and
try to get Ronan Farrow back and come right back to this rally right after
KORNACKI: We are back, again, looking live at that march. Those world
leaders, European leaders, international leaders, Eric Holder from the
United States is there. A big crowd of some very influential people now
marching through Paris in a sign of unity.
One thing you can see if you look closely at the screen there on the left
it looks like is Benjamin Netanyahu, the prime minister of Israel. About
four people separating him there on the right is Mahmoud Abbas, the head of
the Palestinian Authority. Those two obviously have more than their share
of differences. We can tell you a little bit of news this morning as this
is going on. President Obama and the White House announcing today that
they have invited international allies to participate in a security summit
in Washington on February 18th to prevent violent extremism. So a lot of
the people, a lot of the countries you see represented by these world
leaders who are marching right now, being invited by the Obama
administration to Washington a little more than a month from now for a
conference basically on how to prevent what we`ve seen in Paris this week
from happening anywhere else.
Also news this morning, again, related to this march. We have word that
the victims, the families of the victims of that kosher grocery store
attack in Paris, they have decided that their relatives will be buried in
Israel. That word coming again this morning again as Benjamin Netanyahu,
the prime minister of Israel, among those who are marching right now in the
front row right there. Ronan Farrow is live again back on the scene for us
in Paris. And Ronan, I guess let me ask you about that. Just watching
this on our screens right now. Seeing Netanyahu and Abbas so close
together but in a way also still so apart. Doesn`t -- four people between
them. Doesn`t look like they`re looking at each other or anything. But
just the power of having those two together, and I guess the question is,
is there potential for them to have some kind of encounter, some kind of
exchange, for something between them to come from this.
FARROW: Certainly, Steve, everyone is watching for whether that moment
happens and what it looks like. And I would just point out the
significance of those two being here right now in a week when the deep,
deep rifts are being felt between Jewish Parisians and Muslim Parisians,
and the population at large. We were in Jewish communities earlier, where
we heard a constant refrain of contemplating at least leaving the country,
certainly being afraid to be in the country in some circumstances. Shop
owners locking their doors, barring their windows, people saying, look, we
feel disenfranchised and we`re skeptical as to whether the government is
doing enough to protect us.
Now, at the same time, we`ve seen Benjamin Netanyahu come out very publicly
and say Israel is a potential home for French people in just that
situation. That Jewish people here are welcome there. And that comes
after two years of more and more Jewish French men and women leaving the
country. So, it`s a very, very tense situation, and exactly the
relationship that you just described is going to be watched closely by
Jewish men and women all over this city, and indeed all over this country,
where there are other smaller demonstrations happening to express the same
sentiments here. Both feeling a lot of the tensions and trying to move
beyond them, Steve.
KORNACKI: All right, Ronan, I`ll ask you to stand by and please stay with
us. We want to keep going back to you as we continue to watch this march.
I want to bring in now, Roger Cohen. He is back with us. We saw him
earlier. He was nice enough to stick around. Roger Cohen, "New York
Times" columnist who served as the paper`s Paris correspondent for several
years. He`s back here now. And, Roger, maybe I can pick up this issue
with you, because it is something I have been learning about this week and
I wasn`t aware of was the increase, the sort of very significant increase,
and Ronan was just talking about this a minute ago, in the number of Jewish
people in France who had been leaving the country in recent years for
Israel. Now we have this news as we said this morning that the victims of
that kosher grocery store attack are going to be buried in Israel. Just
tell us a little bit, if you could, about what sort the factors are that
have brought that about.
COHEN: I think it is a fairly significant trend, Steve. It shouldn`t be
exaggerated at the same time. There are still half a million Jews in
France, but there has been a feeling of being under threat. There was an
attack three years ago, as you know, in which three Jewish children and a
rabbi were killed in southern France. And at the same time, there`s been a
very difficult, depressed economic situation in France, and the Israeli
economy has been booming. So there`s been a double thing going on. The
sense of threat, of growing threat, of this big Muslim population in France
or the politics of the Middle East spilling into France. And, so, thinking
that Israel is a more secure place to be and to raise your children, and
maybe also that those children, given the difference in the two economies,
would have great opportunities in Israel than they might have in France.
KORNACKI: I wonder, too, Roger, there is the question of Europe itself.
And we`ve seen a number of reports in recent times about a rise of anti-
Semitism across Europe. What is going on with that?
COHEN: Well, it`s true. It`s happening, Steve. It`s terrible. And,
again, it`s the politics of the Middle East spilling into Europe. We saw a
wave of attacks, as you know, in Germany, where vile slogans were chanted,
once again, in France, and elsewhere at the time of the last war in Gaza,
with its heavy toll in human life. And as I mentioned earlier, I do think
that with having Mahmoud Abbas and Prime Minister Netanyahu of Israel just
four yards apart there, couldn`t we get a handshake? Wouldn`t that be
something? Doesn`t mean there will be peace tomorrow between Israel and
Palestine, but there is no alternative in the end, in my view, to a two-
state outcome there, and that would send a very powerful message.
We`ve also been reminded with the fact that the bodies of the four Jewish
victims will be transported back to Israel, of the reasons for the
emergence of Zionism more than a century ago. Jews needed a homeland.
They needed a place where this could not happen, where they would not be
excluded, face threats, and not feel they were wholly citizens of the
countries they lived in.
KORNACKI: Again, you`re seeing on the right side of your shot there
actually disappearing from the shot right now as the camera pans over. But
that was Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, and then to his left,
just four people to his left is Mahmoud Abbas, the head of the Palestinian
Authority. That in the middle of the screen right there, David Cameron,
the British prime minister, he is there as is Eric Holder. A little bit of
news to tell you about with Eric Holder this morning. U.S. Attorney
General Eric Holder saying this morning that the United States is quote,
"at war with terrorists who commit violent acts." That is the attorney
general saying that this morning. Again, Eric Holder representing the
United States at this rally today. You can see the French president, his
back to the camera, greeting some of the other dignitaries. Also it was
just yesterday that the prime minister of France, not the president of
France, but the prime minister of France declaring that his country is at
war with radical Islam.
Ronan Farrow, if I can bring you back into this. So Eric Holder
representing the United States over there. We don`t see him, at least I
don`t think we have seen him in the shot right now. Tell us about his role
over there today.
FARROW: It`s critical that he`s here. Earlier one of your guests asked,
what concrete measures are on the table on the policy side to try to fix
some of those deep rifts within France. The real answer is, there aren`t
concrete proposals on that front. Where there are concrete proposals
coming to the floor, is on counterterrorism, on security, and Holder`s
visit is deeply significant on that set of issues.
We don`t yet know exactly what is being contemplated of course behind
closed doors, but as you mentioned, there will be this security conference,
and you can bet that there is a lot of elevated intelligence sharing going
on after the last week of news.
Now, one thing that is very significant here is just how resource intensive
it is to fight the kind of terrorism that led to the "Charlie Hebdo"
attacks. These disaggregated, sleeper cells that could activate anywhere,
where individuals may have had brushes with the justice system, but there
is not a compelling enough case to keep them behind bars. It takes a
tremendous amount of manpower, Steve, to monitor those individuals. That`s
one thing we heard when we talked to the judge who first imprisoned Cherif
Kouachi. He said, I had to let him out after that initial imprisonment,
and indeed he felt he let him out more radicalized because of his time in
the prison system, and that there then simply wasn`t enough manpower within
the system. Not enough tools at the disposal of judges like himself to
keep monitoring that individual. That is a challenge that all of the
nations of the world will have to address.
KORNACKI: Again, you are seeing the shots right there of the world
leaders. I`ll bring the panel back here in New York to talk about this for
a minute. Again, where we`ve been focused, at least the camera shots on
all these world leaders marching, but again, it`s basically a million
people. Potentially up to a million people who are around them, and I
wonder, just as Americans looking at this from the United States and
watching this, obviously, a lot of thoughts go through people`s minds.
Obviously they are very sad for what happened here this week. Everybody is
I think probably inspired by the show of unity, but I think as Americans we
also end up ultimately thinking, could something like this that we just saw
in Paris and in France be happening or happen potentially in the United
States. How do you guys feel about that?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Of course it could happen. It could happen anywhere.
I think what the American people are looking for is concrete solutions.
They`re looking for leadership, and, you know, it`s a difficult balancing
act because in America, you know, we have this issue of civil liberties and
religious freedom butting right up against a group of people that under the
umbrella of their faith, you know, choose to terrorize people. So, how do
you strike that balance, where, you know, you protect the Constitution, but
also you hold people accountable and prevent these things from happening?
It`s a very, very difficult place to find yourself. But I think that, you
know, tomorrow, the place that these leaders are going to have to find
themselves is what do we do to protect our citizens?
KORNACKI: I think we`re going to go live back over to Paris right now. My
producer, we have a correspondent who we`re going to go to right now? Just
checking on this. Yeah, okay. Sorry. Just one of those things we`re
doing live coverage here, folks. Just bear with me for a second. I think
we`re going to go back to Ronan Farrow right now, and Ronan Farrow is
standing by with some people who are attending the rally.
FARROW: That`s right. I just want to give you a recap of where we are
right now in this unprecedented, historic rally. Potentially a million
people here, so many in fact that cell reception has drowned out, that even
our very powerful satellite signal has been coming and going for this very
interview. People are here for all walks of life, from all over the world.
I can tell you from having just been in the heart of this crowd a few
minutes ago, the feeling is very, very warm. People are really trying to
get into the spirit of unity. The title of the rally. I want to talk to
some people who are here right now.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Je suis Charlie!
FARROW: So you can hear the feeling here. There`s an air of exuberance.
Now, sir, where did you come from to come here today?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I live in Paris with my family.
FARROW: And what is your name, sir?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My name is Mark Frechand (ph).
FARROW: So, tell me what it means to you to be here right now?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, I came as a citizen, as many people I think here,
just to say stop the violence and let`s keep peace and quietness for all
the people in France, whether they`re foreigners or French born people, you
FARROW: What would you like to see change coming out of this moment?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, I think that the leaders, as they say, we
understand that all the people want peace and quietness stop the violence
that we don`t want in France for now many years. So, stop violence.
FARROW: Do you have a message for any particular world leader in
attendance here today, for Hollande?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think that the world leaders, as they say, they can
understand what all the people say today during this march, and I think and
I hope after the march.
FARROW: Thank you so much, sir, for your time. Just one of the many
voices in this crowd that has echoed that very sentiment of we want peace,
we want to come together in this time of tremendous tension and strife
within French society. That is the sentiment being echoed all around
Europe. As you can see here from all the flags behind me, so many of those
places that are feeling that tension, are actually here, living out the
desire to move beyond it, today.
KORNACKI: Thanks for that, Ronan, and please again stand by. We`ll be
going back to you in a just a second, but I`m also being told now that NBC
News producer Chapman Bell, he is also on the scene. He`s at the end of
the march. And we`re in contact with him. Chapman, can you tell us where
you are and what you`re seeing right now?
CHAPMAN BELL, NBC NEWS PRODUCER: Yes, Steve, I`m at the end of the march,
the Place de Nation, where this march is due to end. It is right in front
of me, however, it is already filled with thousands of people who just made
their way here before the march even officially started. Behind me you see
the people coming from the beginning of the march, the Place de la
Republique, which is where Ronan just was. It is going to take some time.
They`re expecting about a million people to be attending this unity march.
It`s so large, in fact, there are three different routes from the start
that people can take. The dignitaries are taking the route one road over
from (inaudible), and then there is actually another street parallel. That
people are marching. There are so many people, they had to split it three
different ways to get to this final point.
Je suis Charlie, that is the message that you see everywhere. You have
seen it for days. There have been memorials all across France, at the scene
of all these incidents, all these horrible tragedies, really, there have
been memorials of candles and flowers and signs. However, this day is the
day where it all comes together, this is the day of unity. When people
from all over France, all over the world, actually, are here in attendance
to unify and be in solidarity, to say we are not with these atrocious
crimes, really. So I stand here now, the square is filling up, but like I
said, there is still time for thousands, hundreds of thousands of people in
fact, to march down this street, to make it to this point where this rally
will continue for some time. Steve.
KORNACKI: Thanks for that, Chapman. Je suis Charlie, that`s being
chanted, as you might have picked up there when Ronan Farrow was talking to
those folks in the crowd a few minutes ago. That sounded like that`s what
they were chanting. Again, live scene there, you`re looking at a massive
march in Paris. We have to squeeze a quick break in here, we got people on
the scene, much more still ahead, so stay with us.
KORNACKI: Nearing 10:00 a.m. here on the East Coast of the United States.
Well into the afternoon, almost 4:00 in Paris now, where you are seeing
that massive unity rally under way. A large group of major European and
international leaders leading a march through the streets right now, up to
a million people potentially, maybe even more. It will be hard to get an
estimate, as we`re hearing, it will be very hard to get a final estimate of
exactly how many people turned out for this, but obviously the French
president leading the way. We saw him just moments ago, greeting other
dignitaries. Eric Holder from the United States is there. Israeli Prime
Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. Palestinian Authority leader Mahmoud Abbas.
Obviously all eyes on Abbas and Netanyahu to see if there are any
interactions between them. But obviously a huge, huge event, international
scope here in Paris this morning.
We`re going to continue to keep an eye on it here at MSNBC throughout the
morning, throughout the day. We`re going to cut off our coverage right now
for Melissa Harris-Perry, who will be here right after this break.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY
Copyright 2015 Roll Call, Inc. All materials herein are protected by
United States copyright law and may not be reproduced, distributed,
transmitted, displayed, published or broadcast without the prior written
permission of Roll Call. You may not alter or remove any trademark,
copyright or other notice from copies of the content.>
Show: UP with STEVE KORNACKI