'The Last Word with Lawrence O'Donnell' for Wednesday, February 11th, 2015

Date: February 11, 2015
Guest: Phyllis Bennis, Michael Weiss, Gus Rosendale, Dianna Hunt, Michael
Snipes, Seema Iyer, Dianna Hunt, Patrick Murphy, Michael Snipes, Gavin

LAWRENCE O`DONNELL, MSNBC HOST: Good evening, Rachel. Thank you for
joining me over here last night during the show. That was really fun.

RACHEL MADDOW, "TRMS" HOST: It was really fun. Thank you for having me.
I`m sorry that you could see that I was wearing jeans under the table.
Next time, I`ll wear fancier pants.

O`DONNELL: I didn`t know that was big news that you wear jeans under the

MADDOW: Big news at my house.


O`DONNELL: Thanks, Rachel.

MADDOW: Thanks, Lawrence.

O`DONNELL: President Obama is asking Congress to formally authorize the
use of military force against the Islamic State. A jury in Texas began
hearing evidence in the murder of real American sniper Chris Kyle. And
Rush Limbaugh offers a not so fond farewell to Jon Stewart.


offensive. ISIL is on the defensive, and ISIL is going to lose.

REP. JOHN BOEHNER (R-OH), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: I believe that if we`re
going to authorize the use of military force, the president should have all
the tools necessary to win.

JEH JOHNSON, HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY: Homeland security is not free.

REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA), MINORITY LEADER: We have 17 days until the
expiration of the short-term funding of Homeland Security.

REP. STEVE SCALISE (R), LOUISIANA: There are some people are saying, how
are we going to get the Department of Homeland Security funded?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Powerball fever sweeping the nation.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Half a billion is up for grabs in tonight`s drawing.

SCALISE: The way to do it is for the Senate to do the job that the House
already did.

BOEHNER: The House has done its job. Why don`t you go ask the Senate
Democrats when they`re going to get off their ass and do something?

PELOSI: I hope they don`t play politics with that.

DAVID AXELROD: My job was to tell them what the politics of it were.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: His new book is called "Believer: My 40 Years in

AXELROD: Someone said, why is the president focused on climate change?
It`s at the bottom of "The Wall Street Journal"/NBC poll.

JON STEWART, THE DAILY SHOW: The Falcon takes flight, propelling the deep
space climate observatory on a million-mile journey to protect our planet

AXELROD: But that`s how Washington thinks.

STEWART: You`re a -- you`re a dark dude.

JOSH EARNEST, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: As others have noted, this is
probably not the last we`ve heard of Jon Stewart.

STEWART: This show doesn`t even deserve an even slightly restless host and
neither do you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The murder trial of Eddie Ray Routh is taking place in
Stephenville, in Erath County.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The trial of the man accused of murdering Chris Kyle.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Kyle`s widow Taya took the stand first.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The former Navy SEAL who inspired a hit movie "American

OBAMA: ISIL is on the defensive and ISIL is going to lose.

SCALISE: How are we going to get the Department of Homeland Security

STEWART: Doug Herzog and Michele Ganeless of Comedy Central gave me an
incredible opportunity. It is time for someone else to have that


O`DONNELL: The president has asked Congress for authorization for use of
force against the Islamic State, even though the president apparently
doesn`t think he needs one.


EARNEST: The president and his lawyers have concluded that he already has
the authority that he needs to order military action against ISIL. But he
does believe it would be a powerful symbol for the Congress to send to the
American people, to our allies and even to our enemies, that the United
States of America is united behind the strategy that the president laid out
to destroy ISIL.


O`DONNELL: Phyllis Bennis, does the president need this legal authority?

legal authority, and the Congress should take the opportunity to consider
this authority and vote no. The problem isn`t the details of the
authority, the problem is that this is authorizing at least three more
years of war, and potentially a lot more, because one of the other
authorizations remains in place. This is a recipe for continuing war, and
President Obama needs to decide whether he wants to be the president who
ends wars or the president who makes wars endless.

O`DONNELL: Patrick Murphy, Iraq vet, former member of Congress, do you see
it as he needs this legal authority? And if you were there now, would you
vote for it?

PATRICK MURPHY, MSNBC CONTRIBUTOR: I do agree he needs the authority.
Congress has not debated an AUMF in over a decade, (INAUDIBLE) at ball,
American military at war.

Would I vote for it? I would vote to give him authorization against ISIS,
because it`s not for enduring combat operations. It`s for limited strikes.

It`s clear that it`s very limited and there`s a sunset in three years,
Lawrence. I don`t say that lightly. I thought the Iraq war was the wrong
war, I lost 19 paratroopers when I served over there. But the fact is
this, is that there`s about 20 million Sunnis between Damascus and Baghdad
that are in play, and what we really need is not just an American military
might, Lawrence, what we need is a diplomatic surge.

Thank goodness there`s a new prime minister in Iraq. But the fact is, is
that to get those moderate Sunnis to fight against ISIS, we need to give
them encouragement and their own government.

O`DONNELL: John McCain is not happy. He says, "I have deep concerns about
the aspects of this proposed authorization, including limitations placed on
constitutional authority of the commander-in-chief, the failure to
articulate an objective for the use of military force and a narrow
definition of strategy that seeks to separate the fight against ISIL from
the underlying conflict in Syria, and the Assad regime`s responsibility for
this growing threat. This is a receipt for failure."

Michael Weiss, your reaction to John McCain`s --

think the strategy as it`s currently conceived as a purely counterterrorism
one is not going to work for the reasons actually Patrick just gave.
Sunnis in Syria and Iraq, what they see now, and the reason ISIS`
propaganda is succeeding, and failing to foment another awakening.

Sunnis think that the United States does not care about them. They did not
-- we did not intervene, Obama did not enforce the red line on chemical
weapons use in Syria, the Assad regime is no longer a priority. They have
dropped Scud missiles, barrel bombs, chlorine gas, on the heads of mostly
Sunnis in Syria.

The propaganda that ISIS is playing up is that essentially the United
States is now in league with Iran to commit murder, ethnic cleansing and
the dispossession of Sunnis.

This narrative goes back a decade, right? This began when we toppled
Saddam. Sunnis felt that their patrimony, that their privilege had been
completely taken away. Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, the founder of al Qaeda in
Iraq, which is today ISIS, essentially this is part of his grim vision.

We`ve been at war with ISIS for 11 years. This is not a newfangled
phenomenon. We are going to be at war with them probably for another 11 at

O`DONNELL: Dafna Linzer, this is not being enthusiastically received by
Republican leadership in the Senate and in the House. And they are the
ones who have to bring this to the floor of the Senate or bring it to the
floor of the House for a vote. They have to do it.

So, do we get into some kind of negotiation on wording now before they do

think that -- you know, to me when I hear the John McCain comments, I
wonder do they want to make it broader? Do they want, you know, take away
the three years?

O`DONNELL: He does.

LINZER: Do they want to be at war all over the place? Supposed of saying,
do they want to actually extend the 2001 AUMF? Would that be better in
going after ISIS with that? That opens up a whole can of worms that makes
the Democrats, even the Democrats worried about it, even more worried about
where it`s going to go.

O`DONNELL: How does -- go ahead, Patrick.

MURPHY: Yes, first of all, (INAUDIBLE), a Democrat, came out and said he
would vote against it. Mike McCaul, a Republican, said it`s not going far
enough, it`s kind of John McCain kind.

The bottom line is this, the most sacred duty of the Congress of the United
States is when to send American men and women in harm`s way, and they don`t
want to tackle this. They said they were going to tackle this after the
summer recess. They said after the elections. They don`t want to touch

And that`s a shame on Congress. That is their duty. They just can`t
outsource this to the president of the United States. He needs
constitutional authority to go forward.

And, you know, when you asked a question, would I vote on it? Only if it`s
coupled with a diplomatic surge, because we can`t do it ourselves. It must
be an Arab-led effort, which some of it has been. But really, it`s the
hearts and minds in the Middle East. It`s not the military might. That`s
what we need to see in the next several weeks, but at least we`re debating,
after we`ve lost men and women already over there.

O`DONNELL: Phyllis Bennis, go ahead.

BENNIS: You know, I think the problem is what Patrick just said is exactly
what`s needed and exactly what`s not happening. There is no debate going
on about whether or not we should be using force, whether or not we should
be authorizing war.

The only debate is on the margins. Should there be a three-year sunset?
Would it be one year? Should there be no sunset clause?

Nobody is actually saying right now there should not be a military
component, despite what we`ve learned from the years of war in Iraq and
Afghanistan, the drone war in Somalia and Pakistan and Yemen and elsewhere,
that have all failed. The air war in Libya, they all failed. They`re not
going to win this time.

You cannot bomb extremism. You can bomb people, you can bomb some
extremists and kill them, but that doesn`t wipe out the problem. It just
means that it spreads.

We were told in Afghanistan in the last few years of the war when we had up
to 100,000 American troops there and another 40,000 or so NATO troops, that
there was somewhere between 50 and 100 al Qaeda members left.

And yet those 100,000 troops could not eliminate al Qaeda. It still
exists. It`s still a threat to people there, not to us, but to people
there. That`s what we get when we use air war as this kind of imaginary
way of destroying extremism.

Extremism grows out of political and economic and social conditions. And
without changing those conditions, it`s only going to get worse with an air
war, not better.

O`DONNELL: I`m going to turn quickly to what has become the Netanyahu
circus, and that`s according to Abe Foxman. That`s what`s he`s calling it,
with the Anti-Defamation League. He told "The Forward", "It`s a tragedy of
unintended consequences, a circus. It has been hijacked by politics. Now
is the time to recalibrate, restart and find a new platform and a new
timing to take away the destructions."

And, Dafna Linzer, you have brought to our attention a little bit of
precedent for this breaking out in Israeli politics where one Israeli
politician is accusing another of using America as campaign device. Tell
us about that.

LINZER: Sure. When I was an "A.P." correspondent in Jerusalem in 1996,
Netanyahu was making his first attempt to be prime minister. Rabin had
been assassinated. Yitzhak Rabin, who has started this historic peace
process. His successor was sworn in, who was running against Netanyahu.
Shimon Peres, he came to Washington, and was going to meet with Clinton,
not at the White House, but meet with Clinton.

And sure enough, Netanyahu went nuts in Jerusalem, said this was a cynical
ploy and nobody else would ever pull such a stunt.

O`DONNELL: Do you mind if I read his exact words, which I happened to find
in your 1996 article.

He said, this is Netanyahu, 1996, "I can`t find an example of previous
Israeli government whose prime minister on the eve of elections made a
cynical attempt to use relations between Israel and United States a party

LINZER: He said it just like that.

O`DONNELL: Yes, exactly. Yes.

LINZER: We have Senator Patrick Leahy coming up saying I`m not going.
He`s not making any excuse, no travel excuse. He said, I`m not going to go
because of the political manipulation going on here with Netanyahu and John

What do you think the attendance is going to be like in the House of
Representatives that day on the floor?

MURPHY: I think there are going to have excuse absences. Some will have a
courage to say why they`re not there. Others will make another excuse.

In the end of the day, we`re all Americans, and that`s what the American
people want to see. You know, whether you`re Democrat or Republican, we go
to the president of the United States to speak in one voice. And to see
the end around, what happened in the Congress, to bring him on the eve of
his own election, we don`t meddle in other foreign elections, and it`s just
a really bad precedent what happened. I was hoping that it would be
delayed until after the election, have him come to the Congress. I would
like to hear what Netanyahu has to say, but after his election, not before.

BENNIS: You know --

O`DONNELL: Go ahead, Phyllis, quickly.

BENNIS: I was just going to say, I think there`s a problem here. This
isn`t only about electioneering and the cynical ploy of politics, this is
also about a life and death issue about the Iran negotiation. We shouldn`t
forget that in the midst of the politics.

This is about the fact that Iran is at the center of this debate about the
nuclear negotiations that are under way. Israel and the United States have
different views of where those negotiations should be.

And what Netanyahu has said explicitly is that he`s coming to Congress to
convince them to vote against their own president. That`s what we`re
dealing with here.

And the Israeli lobby here, some of the spokesmen have come out and said
isn`t this outrageous that, given the choice between voting for Israel --
not voting for but supporting Israel and Netanyahu versus President Obama,
members of Congress are choosing President Obama as if that was something
to be ashamed of.

It`s an astonishing thing. But we have to keep in mind this is about the
politics of the negotiation.

LINZER: I think what`s too bad here is that it makes Israel and the United
States look really far apart. If they had a much more unified sense with
these talks going on, it would be better for them, and Iran just sees that
there`s a split here and it makes them stronger actually.

O`DONNELL: That`s going to have to be the last word on this one. Thank
you all.

Coming up next, opening statements in the American sniper trial.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When he took their lives, he was under the grip

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mental illness does not take away your ability to know
right from wrong.



O`DONNELL: We have breaking news tonight here in New York City. Very sad
news. CBS News tonight has announced the death of long-time correspondent
Bob Simon, whose career spanned five decades. Bob Simon was killed in a
car accident here in New York City.

Reporter Gus Rosendale of WNBC TV is on the scene of the accident now.

Gus, what do we know about this accident?

GUS ROSENDALE, WNBC REPORTER (via telephone): Lawrence, police are here on
scene trying to piece together what happened. What we`re hearing from law
enforcement sources is that Simon was riding in the back of a Lincoln town
car. Apparently that car sideswiped another vehicle, a Mercedes. The town
car lost control and smashed into a number of pilings in the middle of the
road here protecting people on the cross walk.

We understand that firefighters had to cut the roof of the town car open to
get access to the driver and to Simon. The 73-year-old correspondent was
rushed to St. Luke`s hospital, where he was initially going to be treated
for his injuries and he passed away soon after that.

O`DONNELL: Gus, thank you very much.

Again, long-time CBS News correspondent Bob Simon has died tonight in an
automobile accident on the West Side Highway. Bob Simon got started at CBS
in 1967. He covered the Vietnam War. He went on to cover stories all over
the world for CBS and for "60 Minutes."

Bob Simon was 73.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They found Chris Kyle shot five times in the back and
side and on one time in the side of the head.


O`DONNELL: Joining me now is Dianna Hunt, reporter for "The Dallas Morning
News", who`s covering the trial of Eddie Ray Routh. Also joining us now
from Texas, Michael Snipes, he`s a former Dallas County judge and criminal
defense lawyer.

Dianna, in the courtroom today, we had opening statements and then some
witnesses. The prosecutor making the case that this is a simple murder and
that the defendant, who is going to be claiming insanity, knew right from
wrong, and that`s the only test he`s got to clear to get a simple murder
conviction here.

DIANNA HUNT, THE DALLAS MORNING NEWS: That`s right. It was very -- the
prosecution was very focused in its case that he fled the scene, that he
bragged about the truck and the guns that he had, and that he admitted to
investigators that he knew somewhat he had done was wrong. But then the
defense stepped in and presented suggestions that he had a series of mental
health issues, that they talked about schizophrenia, psychosis, personality
disorders, and he clearly was in a downward spiral of psychosis at the time
this happened, that he believed he had to kill them before they killed him.

I think it`s going to be a very tough case for the jurors.

O`DONNELL: The prosecutor told the jurors that the defendant intentionally
caused the death of Chris Kyle. He did so, did that in that criminal

Let`s listen to what the prosecutor said about the so-called narrow path
that the defense has to find to get -- to plead the insanity defense.
Let`s listen to this.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You got to decide, has the defense proved to you that
when he did that, when he intentionally caused these men`s deaths, he had
severe mental disease and defect to cause him to not know that what he was
doing was wrong. That is a very, very narrow door that they have to
thread. That is a heavy burden to meet that they must meet for him to get
away with these murders.


O`DONNELL: Michael Snipes, is that, in your mind, an accurate description
of the burden?

defense has to prove by a preponderance of the evidence that the defendant
did not know the difference between right and wrong at the time of the

O`DONNELL: And so, it doesn`t really get into -- necessarily into clinical
psychiatric findings, it`s simply that right and wrong test in Texas,
that`s all it is?

SNIPES: Yes, and the jury is going to have to make that decision.

Now, from the defense perspective, keep in mind there`s probably going to
be evidence in this case that one of the victims, Chad Littlefield,
apparently texted Chris Kyle on the way out to the shooting range words to
the effect of, "This dude is crazy." So, there is evidence on the defense
side from their perspective. It`s not a hopeless case.

O`DONNELL: Yes, there definitely is. We`ll get to more of that.

And, Patrick Murphy, prosecutor, as well as a combat veteran, experienced
both those things. It`s very interesting that the prosecutor described the
defendant`s mother`s approach to Chris Kyle this way, he simply said -- he
simply characterized it saying, would you spend time with him, would you
befriend him?

And what we`re going to hear on the other side of the case, the defense
side of case, is much bigger problems than that were described to Chris
Kyle. That he is -- this guy is in serious mental trouble.

MURPHY: This is Chris Kyle`s own words. His last text message was, this
dude is straight up nuts. He said that to Chad, his buddy, right, who is
sitting right behind -- right next to him and he said, hey, and then Chad
responds, watch my six, watch my back, because that`s Eddie Routh was

Listen, they had an arsenal in that truck going out to that range. I mean,
if this guy was going to kill them, he could have done it in the hour and
40-minute drive. Today, I had one of my gunner in Iraq, (INAUDIBLE) was
there, he`s a Texas A&M law student. He watched the whole trial today.
His words were, when Chad Littlefield`s mother testified, she said today
would be Chad`s 38th birthday and she lost her son. He said about four of
the women on the jury -- nine of the 12 jurors are women and they started
crying when they saw the picture and when they heard that.

At the end of the day, though, Eddie Routh went at least four times to the
V.A. for mental issues. He was psychotic. Chris Kyle said, "This guy`s
nuts." I mean, it breaks your heart. This guy had two deployments. It
was the Iraq deployment and the Haiti deployment.

People forget we sent marines, including this young man, to Haiti. There
was up to 100,000 to 250,000 Haitians that were killed in that earthquake
in 2010. That`s what people like Eddie had to deal with. And he came back
home and it really screwed with him.

O`DONNELL: Seema, as a former prosecutor, how do you read this jury? Ten
women, two men, that`s an unusual composition.


O`DONNELL: Is that fundamentally favorable to one side or the other?

IYER: I don`t know at this point, because I think that the crux of the
defense is insanity. And I don`t think that`s a gender issue, where you`ll
get more favor from either side.

I think that there is a chance that the defense can succeed, because PTSD
has been successful when the defendant has a history of it, as he does
here. There is corroborative evidence. There is collateral in the sense
that there are people who witnessed him having the flashbacks, having the
mood swings, having this hyper vigilant attitude.

And look at the incident. At that moment in time, they were in some type
of combat scenario.

And, Patrick, love to hear what you always think.

MURPHY: I wouldn`t say -- they weren`t getting shot at. But it was -- it
was a rifle range.

IYER: And noises can trigger flashbacks. So he`s within that moment
again, in that PTSD.

O`DONNELL: We`re going to take a quick break. Before we do, Judge Snipes,
I wanted to ask you about that jury composition, ten women.

In your experience with this sort of thing, do you think that that is
something that the defense feels offers more opportunity for sympathy for
the argument that they are going to make?

SNIPES: I do not. I have presided over 320 jury trials and have found my
juries to be totally gender neutral. Sometimes the women are more in favor
of guilt, sometimes the men are. It`s completely gender neutral.

O`DONNELL: All right. We`re going to come back with more of this,
including a closer look at the defense.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When he took their lives, he was in the grip of a
psychosis. A psychosis at that point in time that he did not know what he
was doing was wrong.



O`DONNELL: We`re going to show you now a presentation by the defense
counsel in the -- in the trial today in Texas of the murder of Chris Kyle
and Chad Littlefield. He makes the case that his client has been diagnosed

Let`s listen to this.


TIM MOORE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: The VA Hospital over in Dallas admitted him
and their diagnosis was psychosis. Psychosis, a severe mental disorder.

In fact at that time, you will find that Eddie thought he had a tapeworm.
He was convinced he had a tapeworm living inside of him. So they take him
to the VA Hospital in July of 2011 and they not only determine that he has
a psychosis, he`s crying uncontrollably. They put him on anti-psychosis
medication. A doctor in the VA Hospital puts him on anti-psychotic


O`DONNELL: Dianna Hunt, you`re in the courtroom during the testimony
today, first witness being Chris Kyle`s widow.

Tell us what the feelings were like in the courtroom today and how you
think her testimony landed.

DIANNA HUNT, DALLAS MORNING NEWS: She was in tears before she really had
ever gotten any words out, and several of the jurors were also in tears in
just the first few words of her testimony. She was very effective. She
was forceful. She was -- she smiled at jurors. She told one "bless you"
after he or she sneezed. But she was very emotional talking about her
husband and the loss was very fresh, you could tell. She also sat in the
courtroom afterward wearing his dog tags as she watched the rest of the

O`DONNELL: And, Patrick Murphy, at the defense table, all you can really
do is sit and watch testimony like that.

respectful. I mean, this Chris Kyle and Chad Littlefield, they`re two
heroes. They were helping another Marine who`s going through problems.
And the question in this whole trial is, you know, Eddie is going away.
He`s either going to a mental institution or a he`s going to prison for the
rest of his life.

Now the defense hopes he goes to a mental institution to get the help that
he needs and -- and elsewhere. But I will tell you that the folks in that
courtroom, between Chris Kyle`s widow and Chad`s mother, on the day that he
would have turned 30 years of age, got everyone in that courtroom today in
tears. It was powerful.

though, that the prosecution may have timed this trial to go when the movie
is in the theaters? Do you not recognize the possibility? It does --


O`DONNELL: Well, Judge Snipes, Judge Snipes, what`s your reaction to that,
the timing of the trial?

The judge, after all, makes the decision as to whether or not the case is
going to be continued or not. And at the end of the day, the judge has to
decide whether the jurors that are selected for the trial can fairly and
impartially evaluate the evidence and not consider any kind of media
publicity, and certainly that`s the decision that he`s made in this case.
Regardless of how long out this case was tried, the Chris Kyle story is
always going to be fresh in the minds of every American.

O`DONNELL: Now let`s go to what was described as the bombshell in the
courtroom today. You`ve made reference to it, Patrick. We`re going to
hear the defense attorney explaining how we know the thoughts of Chris Kyle
and Chad Littlefield as they were driving along for an hour and a half, two
hours, in that pickup truck with Eddie in the back seat behind them.

Let`s listen to this.


MOORE: We know this. About an hour and a half, into the drive, Chris Kyle
was sitting in the driver seat on his telephone and he texts, Chad
Littlefield who`s sitting right next to him, he texts him, "This dude is
straight up nuts. This dude is straight up nuts." This is about an hour
and a half into the drive. And Chad Littlefield texts Chris Kyle back,
"He`s right behind me, watch my six."

So while we don`t know what the conversation was, we do know what Chris
Kyle was thinking at the time that he was in that truck with Eddie Routh.
And we know what Chad Littlefield was thinking.


O`DONNELL: Dianna Hunt, was that news to everyone in the courtroom today?

HUNT: I believe it was. There had been very little detail released about
what had happened, what kind of interchanges there had been between those,
and to have captured it on cell phone fairly well summed up the defense`s
case, I believe. That they -- the question is, why did they go on to the
firing range and continue? But that`s something they`ll have to get into.

O`DONNELL: Patrick Murphy, speculate about that. I mean, they`ve dealt
with the guys troubled before, but they`re making a judgment, this one is
really bad. And so much so that we`re now physically worried in this
vehicle with him. But these are two really able bodied guys. You know,
they -- I`m sure they firmly believe if he tries anything, we`ve got this

MURPHY: Right. Listen, Lawrence, in the military, we have a motto, leave
no one behind. They didn`t want to leave this (INAUDIBLE) who`s going
through so much behind.


MURPHY: Even though they knew that potentially they could be in danger. I
mean, to talk about that thing, watch my six, this is a Navy SEAL, this is
a Marine. I mean, it just -- it just breaks your heart to know now what
was going on. If they would have known this guy was going to turn on them,
they wouldn`t have done what they`ve done. But maybe, you know, I know for
me, you know, those three were Marines, you give them some confidence
again. Now they probably didn`t know that this guy was just smoking pot
that morning.


MURPHY: That he was, you know, drinking alcohol, that he was telling his
girlfriend --

O`DONNELL: Kicked his girlfriend up that morning.

MURPHY: Kicked his -- and before that, don`t talk to me that loud, write
me notes, because he thought people were watching him, he thought earlier.

O`DONNELL: Right. He`s hearing voices. Yes.

MURPHY: Right. I mean, four times he goes to the VA. I mean.


MURPHY: They don`t know that. The VA still use a Marine ME.

O`DONNELL: That`s going to have to be the LAST WORD on it tonight.

Judge Snipes and Dianna Hunt in Texas, thank you both very much for joining
us from down there.

Thank you all very much for that.

We`re going to be back with more about the Jon Stewart you don`t know.


O`DONNELL: It`s being called the "50 Shades" effect. And it`s an
international sort of thing. According to "The Telegraph," British
hardware store chain B&Q is preparing for a sudden increase in demand for
rope, cable ties, and tape because of the movie "50 Shades of Grey." "The
Telegraph" published what it says is a leaked memo sent to B&Q`s nearly
21,000 employees.

Quote, "All staff are encouraged to familiarize themselves with the content
of `50 Shades of Grey` by reading the novel or watching the film upon its
release. Copies of the book will be delivered to each store and can be
lent to staff on a one-week basis. Understanding the story line and how
some products that B&Q stock feature in the film will better prepare staff
for incoming queries."

OK. Well, if you think reading a book is enough to prepare the staff for
that, OK.

Up next, more on Jon Stewart`s departure from "The Daily Show."



I`m not going to be here and try and sum up what this place has meant to me
over the years. But I couldn`t do that, and we have plenty of time and
I`ve got a myriad of people to thank and we`ll get to that over time. I`m
not going anywhere tomorrow. But this show doesn`t deserve an even
slightly restless host and neither do you.


O`DONNELL: Jon Stewart was restless enough at the anchor desk to take the
summer off to direct the film "Rosewater."

Let`s listen to what he said on Terry Gross` radio show about that


STEWART: We`ve never shot a film before, yes, but I never did standup
comedy before. You just kind of go out and do it. The best part about
this is, as opposed to standup comedy, you can surround yourself by people
with great expertise and talent who can support your -- you know, not to
sound too Rumsfeld-ian, but I didn`t know what I didn`t know. And I was
very clear with them at the outset, you`re going to have to raise flags
early and often if I seem to be going off the rails here.


O`DONNELL: We are joined now from Los Angeles by Gavin Behrman, who is the
production supervisor on "Rosewater." Jon Stewart`s first and only film.

And, Gavin, I find it remarkable that this first-time director, first-time
feature film screen writer, because it was his script, did the job that he
did. I thought -- I thought it was a beautifully and really inventively
created -- directed film among other things.

again, for having me. First of all, Jon is an incredibly talented guy. I
think, you know, his talents go way beyond what he`s been doing with "The
Daily Show." He proved day in and day out in really brutal conditions in
Amman that he could rise above and put together a beautiful piece of art,
and he had a positive attitude and was just a wonderful person to be
working with while we were there.

O`DONNELL: And, Gavin, a director, if he`s doing it well, she`s doing it
well, has to be a leader, a real leader. And it`s a large group of people.
It`s a big army. And some of them are working just for days, some of them
are working for weeks. They`re coming and going. There`s a spirit that
has to be maintained. And on the sets I`ve been on it all keys off the

BEHRMAN: Absolutely. And, you know, I`ve done over probably 20 or 30
feature films in my career, and Jon would stand up and cheer everybody and
tell everybody what he was looking for that day and how great of a job he
did or didn`t do the day before and how we improve or we can, you know, do
better. He`s -- you know, he`s a natural.

O`DONNELL: Gavin, every production meeting I`ve ever been in,
preproduction, has always been chaired by a director who`s been in this
business for decades. I`ve never actually been around an inexperienced
director, and so it`s really hard for me to imagine what that room is like.
This is all before we get to the set, what that room is like when all the
marching orders are being formed, with someone who`s actually never sat in
that chair before at that table.

BEHRMAN: Yes, you know, I think he drew from a lot of experience with
daily meetings on "The Daily Show." He would explain that, you know, he
had prep meetings for those. This of course is very different because we
do one big prep meeting, and then go into, you know, 20 or so days of
shooting. Really it`s like 26. So slightly different. We would break off
and have other meetings throughout the production.

But, you know, he really was very clear with what he wanted and he had, you
know, a lot of us around him to support him in helping him, you know, make
that happen.

O`DONNELL: Let`s take a look at a scene in the movie, this interrogation


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`s not a spy.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`s not a spy.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`s not. It`s a show.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A comedy show. It`s stupid.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s really stupid, yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`s a comedian pretending to be a spy.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So can you tell me why an American pretending to be a
spy had chosen to interview you?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And why would a real spy have a TV show?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why did you tell this man that America and Iran has
something in common?


O`DONNELL: Gavin, on the set, did you get the feeling that Jon Stewart`s
restlessness was really being rewarded, and did you get the feeling he`s
going to be back? He`s going to be doing this again?

BEHRMAN: Yes, I think so. I think he really enjoyed the process and that
it was something fresh and new. I think, you know, anyone that`s doing
anything for as long as he`s been doing it, and he`s at the top of his
game, you know, probably is thinking, you know, maybe I`m really great at
this and I want to try something different. And you know, that`s what he
did. And he did it with style, with grace, and we were very, very
appreciative to be working with him on the project.

O`DONNELL: You came from working on a $100 million budget on the movie
prior to this one, down to $5 million for "Rosewater."


O`DONNELL: And I`m amazed at what you guys got on the screen. There`s no
way you can sit in the audience and say -- and think you`re looking at a $5
million movie.

Let`s take a look at one more scene of the movie.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Her name was Maria. She was my heart. I followed her
to every film, museum and concert she would take me to. In 1980, she was
arrested by the Ayatollah Khomeini. Six years in prison for being a
communist. Six years.


O`DONNELL: Gavin, that was early in the movie. And I remember seeing the
theater being really kind of thrilled by that because here`s a directorial
choice that I had never seen before. The way he used those shop windows as
part of his story telling, illustrating where his story was -- had been,
and where it was going I thought was really quite brilliant.

BEHRMAN: Yes, that`s the beauty of visual effects.


O`DONNELL: All right. We`re going to take a quick break and we`re going
to be back with more about our continuing farewell to Jon Stewart.


O`DONNELL: Rush Limbaugh took a parting shot at Jon Stewart today. We
will have that next. We will be back after this look at Jon Stewart, the
actor, with Robin Williams.


STEWART: You`re broke. You`ve got nothing left.

ROBIN WILLIAMS, ACTOR: Exactly. That`s what I`m trying to tell you, bud.
What`s this?

STEWART: Rainforest Benefit freebie bag. Disposable cameras, Kahlua
flavored peanuts, hand lotion, no animal tested. Don`t ever contact me
again, Randy. Get out of the car.

WILLIAMS: You know what to do with the hand lotion, jerk-off.



O`DONNELL: Rush Limbaugh, of course, took a parting shot at Jon Stewart


to polarize the country by poisoning the Republican brand. Oh, yes, he`s
had a very clear role in that.

Stewart is a funny guy, but he lacks an appreciation of federalism, and he
lacks an understanding of the harm caused by Obama`s cult of personality
that also sucked him in.

Jon Stewart is not alone, but Jon Stewart helped grease the tracks for the
most destructive presidency in many of our lifetimes. And because he was
able to make some people laugh while all this destruction took place. He`s
hailed as a political genius and a great journalist.


O`DONNELL: Definitely, it would be hard to compose a more bitter and more
incorrect farewell to Jon Stewart.

LINZER: It would be really, really hard, yes. You know, Jon Stewart, for
all the great things that he is, too, it`s like, he`s clearly an artist. I
mean, this is a guy who loved films.


LINZER: This is a guy who liked to act and who loved politics, but also
loved books. One of the great things about that show and what made that
show very different and makes it different still is the fact that he brings
on authors, that he wants to --


O`DONNELL: The book business is terrified with him leaving.

LINZER: I`m sure.


LINZER: They should be.

O`DONNELL: Patrick, and he also did everything he could for troops at
every chance.

MURPHY: You know, I --

O`DONNELL: And still will, I`m sure.

MURPHY: No doubt.

O`DONNELL: He`ll be answering your call.



MURPHY: I mean, he actually hires veterans to work on his show.


MURPHY: He doesn`t want anybody to know about it. I talked to him when I
first turned off here. He couldn`t be more gracious. And you know, it`s
interesting. You know, Rush can`t help himself. He just wants


MURPHY: We all know that. But, you know, Jon had -- you know, John
McCain, they had a very good dialogue for many times. He had Republicans
on there.


MURPHY: And he would challenge Democrats. He`s the kind of guy that spoke
to our generation, that would speak to people to give them to care about
politics and public service.

O`DONNELL: And Gavin, on the set, did Jon get into much political chat and
joking around about politics?

BEHRMAN: You know, not really at all. The only time I really saw it is,
you know, after work when we get to dinner and he`d get mobbed there in the
hotel lobby, when he`d get mobbed. Everyone wanted to talk to him about
his views. And that`s really where it came out but when we were working,
we`re working.

O`DONNELL: I`ll bet, Gavin, he just really enjoyed the vacation from all
that stuff.

BEHRMAN: Definitely.


BEHRMAN: He absolutely did.

O`DONNELL: Yes. And as they said, I`m actually talking to a publisher
today, who is terrified about -- there`s no way the next host of "The Daily
Show" will build the show on books, which Jon Stewart did, including really
obscure books. It wasn`t necessarily best-sellers that he was promoting.

LINZER: Right. Absolutely. I mean, yes --

O`DONNELL: And they always skyrocketed on Amazon.

LINZER: Yes. I mean he had power like nobody else has to really kind of
get those books going. But you`re right, medicine, health, science,
obscure books. And I think, you know, it`s been a pleasure kind of watch a
whole audience connect with a world of great nonfiction.

O`DONNELL: All right. Let`s see him do his stuff one more time, let`s see
him talking about a couple of favorites, Sarah Palin and Donald Trump.


STEWART: If you`re taking an esteemed visitor to get real New York pizza,
familiars ain`t it. But let`s continue with the meeting. Are you eating
it with a fork? A (EXPLETIVE DELETED) fork. No. No. No.

When you invite an important visitor to our house, to our town, and eat
your pizza with a (EXPLETIVE DELETED) fork right in front of us, who the
(EXPLETIVE DELETED) do you think you are? You know what? Hey, why don`t
you take your (EXPLETIVE DELETED) LaGuardia`s hat and feed it to Joe
DiMaggio`s crying ghost on Liberty Island, you son of a bitch. You son of
a bitch.

Watch and learn, watch and learn, for god`s sakes. Watch and (EXPLETIVE
DELETED) learn.



O`DONNELL: Gavin, the great actors, the great performers leave you
incapable of imagining anyone else doing what you just saw them do, and
that was one of those moments.

BEHRMAN: I know, and it`s funny, because, you know, I wasn`t an avid
watcher of the show, I`d catch it every now and then. And then working
with him, he was so reserved and mellow and then I turn the show on, as
soon as we got back to see what he had to say about the filming, and it was
like, you know, completely a different guy is performing.

O`DONNELL: Yes. Yes.

Gavin Behrman, thank you very much for joining us tonight.

Dafna Linzer, Patrick Murphy, thanks for staying with us all the way

Chris Hayes is up next.


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