IE 11 is not supported. For an optimal experience visit our site on another browser.

'Scarborough Country' for July 20

Guest: James Walker, Mary Ann Morgan, Jug Twitty, Beth Holloway Twitty

JOE SCARBOROUGH, HOST:  Now, coming up tonight, we have got a big show, obviously. 

Tonight's top headline:  Natalee Holloway parents enter SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY.  And they're going to be talking about new evidence, DNA, and much more. 

Welcome to SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY, no passport required, only common sense allowed. 


SCARBOROUGH (voice-over):  Investigators in Aruba reveal why they forced key suspects to surrender DNA samples to authorities.  We have live reaction from Natalee's parents. 

The mystery deepens in the case of the man who vanished from his honeymoon cruise.  We will have the latest on the case that is stumping the experts.  Plus, inside a cruise ship investigation.  How will they ever uncover the truth in the Mediterranean mystery? 

Then, phone-throwing, couch-jumping, flesh-grabbing celebrities.  Have the stars taken Tom Cruise's advice and gone off their meds?  Hollywood insiders give us the inside scoop on Tinseltown's crazy summer. 

And a true-life shark tale you won't believe. 


ANNOUNCER:  From the press room, to the courtroom, to the halls of Congress, Joe Scarborough has seen it all.  Welcome to SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY.

SCARBOROUGH:  You know, several weeks after she vanished in Aruba, many are asking whether the strands of hair found on the beach in Aruba, will they unravel the mystery of what really happened to Natalee Holloway? 

We are going to be talking live to Natalee's mom and stepdad.

But, first, let's go down to Aruba and NBC's Michelle Kosinski. 

Michelle, tell us, what's the very latest and why were these young men hauled in yesterday to surrender DNA evidence? 

MICHELLE KOSINSKI, NBC CORRESPONDENT:  Well, maybe you have been wondering why a shred of duct tape with a few hairs attached would be making such a stir in this case. 

Well, tonight, an attorney for one of the parties here tells us that it was more than just a shred, that the DNA evidence was inside this tape, that the tape was balled up.  It contained many more, they told us, than just a few strands of hair, that there were many hairs inside, and that many of those were long and blonde.

So, the FBI tells us this is why prosecutors ordered all three of these suspects to submit to DNA testing yesterday.  We saw Joran van der Sloot taken out of jail, brought to the hospital, the Kalpoe brothers, who have been out of jail, compelled to show up there, all of them submit to those swab tests of the insides of their cheeks. 

The attorney for Joran van der Sloot also says that, when he got information back from prosecutors after this order was played out, it said specifically that they want to compare DNA sample from Joran van der Sloot to this DNA that they already have in their possession.  The FBI, again, says that that DNA sample prosecutors have is the duct tape and the hair that has now been sent to a lab in Holland for Dutch authorities to test, and to Quantico, Virginia, for the FBI to test. 

Both, we are told, are en route as we speak.  And the attorney for Satish Kalpoe tells us that, on the information he received from prosecutors, it said much less, simply that the investigation requires that a DNA sample be taken from him, and that, if that sample turned out not to be enough, that the order could also compel him to turn over a blood and/or a hair sample. 

The attorney for one of the Kalpoe brothers also says that, last week, police showed up at the brothers' house and asked them to voluntarily submit to a DNA test, but that the brothers said, no, they wanted to wait for prosecutors to get that court order to do it.  And that's exactly what they obtained yesterday. 

SCARBOROUGH:  Michelle, do you sense a new momentum in the investigation going down in Aruba?  Obviously, the family has been very disappointed.  They don't believe the authorities have been doing all they could do from the very beginning.

But, again, a bit of activity going on, with the DNA evidence found, sent to the FBI labs, sent to the Dutch authorities, and, of course, again, like you said, these boys being yanked in yesterday and forced to surrender their DNA.  Is there some hope down there that this investigation is getting on the right track? 

KOSINSKI:  Well, right now, it all rides on the testing of this sample.

And it goes to show you, in that prosecutor's report that Joran van der Sloot's attorney obtained today from them, it said, as we mentioned, that they want to compare his DNA with a sample of some DNA that they have.  The FBI then said that was the duct tape, so that shows you that they are paying very close attention to this sample and also, on the other hand, that that's about all they are looking at right now.  So it really goes both ways. 

We also know that there are more FBI agents on the island.  They flew in yesterday.  So, things are happening, but we just don't know the results.  And then, when we found out tonight that there are more than just four hairs on that duct tape, that there are many more inside, and that was more duct tape than we even knew about originally, that tells you that there's just more to look at, and we are just going to have to wait about a week to get the results of that testing. 

SCARBOROUGH:  All right, Michelle Kosinski, thank you so much for being with us and, once again, for keeping us up to date with the very latest. 

And now, in a minute, we are going to be turning to Natalee's mother, Beth Holloway Twitty, and also her stepdad, Jug Twitty.  I want to get their reaction to this new information, this new possible lead.  And It's been so frustrating for Beth and Jug, so frustrating for family members, so frustrating, again, because these authorities didn't seem to move as quickly as possible. 

I would like to know, while we are talking about DNA evidence, why didn't they get samples of DNA evidence from the very beginning? 

But let's go now to Beth Holloway Twitty. 

Thank you so much for being with us again tonight, Beth, down there, obviously continuing to fight for justice for your daughter. 

Jug, thank you for being with us from Birmingham. 


SCARBOROUGH:  Beth, let me start with you tonight.  You are down there obviously without Jug.  It's got to be tough.  Do you see this DNA lead as a new possibility, a chance that you may find justice for Natalee? 

BETH HOLLOWAY TWITTY, MOTHER OF NATALEE HOLLOWAY:  Well, you know, as you mentioned at first, of course, it's absolutely frustrating.  And I will be glad to have Jug back on the island with me.

And you know, my take on it is, is, I like to focus more on the—you know, this park ranger that made the observation and, you know, thought it was pertinent enough to carry it—to take it to the proper authorities.  I mean, you know, as far as getting involved and the results of the DNA or having my hopes whether they are up or down, you know, I am really—I am really staying away from that. 

I just want to focus on—like I said, I am just so grateful for an individual to have made this find and to have known to turn it over to the proper authorities. 

SCARBOROUGH:  Now, you are just trying to stay positive, Beth.  A lot of people wonder how you do it.  Obviously, you are down there.  You said you are not going to leave until you get the answers about your daughter.  You stay positive.  How do you do it?  What do you do—I guess—I guess what a lot of Americans want to know tonight is, what do you do throughout the day to keep moving forward, to keep this fight up for justice? 

HOLLOWAY TWITTY:  Well, as I am listening to your show, I heard Jug's voice for just a minute.

And, you know, what an incredible support team that we have.  I mean, you know, Jug and I are being supported by just an incredible amount of people.  You know, it starts off in the community of Mountain Brook, and then now it's spread throughout the world.  And the volumes of cards and letters and e-mails, it's just absolutely incredible.  I mean, we feel that we have that support and are able to continue doing this. 

SCARBOROUGH:  Hey, Jug, you have been critical of the authorities from the beginning.  Of course, it's been a muted criticism, because, obviously, you have to work with them.  So much depends on what their attitude is towards not only this investigation, but towards you and your family personally. 

What—what about this DNA evidence?  Obviously, a lot of people are hopeful about it, but my question is—and I have talked to some former FBI agents who ask the question, why didn't they take the DNA evidence from the very beginning of these boys?  Why did they wait for seven weeks? 

TWITTY:  Thank you, Joe.

First of all, let me say thank you, because I can sit here and see my beautiful wife.


TWITTY:  This is the first time I have been able to see her in a few days.  And you guys connected us up, so, it's so great to see hear her voice.  And I will be with her in a couple of days. 

But, to answer your question, I don't know.  I mean, I talked about it today with Beth.  I mean, if—if they didn't take it on at least the second day, they definitely should have taken in on the 10th day, when—the day after they arrested them.  So, everybody asks the question, why now?  Well, I hope the reason now is because they have more evidence than they are telling us. 

SCARBOROUGH:  By the way, let's—let's just stop this right here for a second.  So, this is the first time you all have seen each other at the same time since you left the island, right? 

TWITTY:  That's correct. 

SCARBOROUGH:  Yes.  Well...

TWITTY:  And she's just as beautiful as when I left. 

SCARBOROUGH:  Just—just as beautiful and still holding up.  And, Jug, it goes back to that question that so many people have been asking for so long.  How does Beth do it?  How does she continue to remain this strong? 

Talk about the support.  You are up in Birmingham right now.  I—certainly, again, I went to college at University of Alabama.  I know about that community.  It's a close-knit community.  Talk about the support you have received since you have come back home. 

TWITTY:  No, it's incredible. 

I mean, as you say, it started with Mountain Brook.  And, of course, it's all of Birmingham, all of Alabama.  But, I mean, Beth just will not believe, you know, when she does get to come home, all the yellow ribbons, all the people.  I can't hardly go out anywhere that, you know, they don't recognize me or something and ask, how is Beth doing?  She is so strong.

But the community, my friends, especially—I mean, Beth and I have some tremendous friends.  And, as I say, the support of some very, very powerful people in Birmingham have allowed us to send our friends back and forth to Aruba to support Beth and myself. 

SCARBOROUGH:  Beth, first of all, say something to Jug.  He obviously misses you greatly tonight.  But follow up on that.  What does it mean to have these kind of friends in just this terrible time of need?

HOLLOWAY TWITTY:  Oh, it's—it's absolutely incredible.

And, as Jug was speaking of some of the friends that have even flown out here to be with us, we have even had one friend that has—I believe he has flown out now five times to be here on the island with us.  I—it's just incredible. 

SCARBOROUGH:  You know, Paul—your brother Paul suggested Aruban authorities may be working a bit more.  He was heartened by the advance in the DNA evidence, the investigation, and, like you said, the ranger that found this.

And, tonight, we're finding out that it was more than just these four strands of hair, that, actually, there was a lot of long blonde hair in there.  Do you get a sense that the Aruban authorities are working a little bit harder and pushing forward a bit more to try to solve this case? 

HOLLOWAY TWITTY:  Well, I think what Jug and I have been concerned all along is—is the sense of urgency.  And, you know, those first days, of course, you know, I know we can't go back and recoup, but we still have to go back and recognize that there were certain elements that were and were not discovered at that time.

But, you know, we just have to—you know, just have to hope that, you know, not only is—the investigation is progressing, but that, you know, you just—it has to progress with some sense of urgency at this point.  I mean, it's just so critical right now.  It just cannot proceed in any slow manner at all. 

SCARBOROUGH:  Jug, do you agree with that? 

TWITTY:  I agree with that.  I hope, in the change in guard, so to speak, you know, as van der Straaten is retiring, you have got a new guy coming in, I understand now.  It's a different guy than I thought it was yesterday. 

But, you know, I hope, Joe, that they can go back and they can go back from the beginning.  And maybe just the new person can go back and say, wait.  We know we should have done this or whatever, and let's go back and revisit.  Let's talk to the people again that were there with me that night and—and, you know, try to get the answers.  The answers are there.  If we had questioned everybody the second night, third night, like I would hope they would have, that we would probably have the answer by now. 

SCARBOROUGH:  I think you are right, Jug.  I think we would have had the answers a long time ago. 

Hey, Beth and Jug, stay with us.  We've got a lot more with you all.

And, of course, during the break, I am going to ask our people to keep open your mikes, so you can talk to each other.  You don't have to have a long-distance bill.  Tonight, NBC is paying for it. 

Coming up, we have got a lot more.  Does new DNA evidence promise to blow this case wide open and possibly put the Kalpoe brothers back in jail?  We are going to be asking a former FBI expert. 

And, also, where is this man?  He disappeared during his honeymoon cruise, and now an investigation could be focusing on his new wife, could be.  We are going to have the latest on that missing newlywed.  Is it a tragic accident or a calculated crime? 

SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY is just getting started.  Stay with us.  We'll be right back.


SCARBOROUGH:  Natalee Holloway's mom and stepdad talking to us in SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY about possible breaks in the case.  We'll talk about that and a lot more when SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY returns.


SCARBOROUGH:  Welcome back. 

You are looking at a picture of Joran van der Sloot on his way to give a sample of his DNA yesterday. 

Now let's go back to Natalee's mom, Beth Holloway Twitty, and also her stepdad, Jug Twitty.

Jug, I have just got to ask you this question.  How hard is it for you to be away from Beth tonight as she continues to fight on the island?  And, obviously—you—you—this is what a lot of people, I guess, don't figure out.  You have got a life of your own in Birmingham.  Both of you have been away from home now for seven weeks. 

It's got to just put remarkable pressure on your family.  But how hard is it not to be able to be together, because you have got to be in Birmingham taking care of some of those problems? 

TWITTY:  Well, that's right, Joe. 

I mean, it is very hard.  And especially to see her, it's hard for me to be away.  But, you know, I work for a wonderful company.  I have wonderful employees that work for me.  And my company has been so supportive of me and my family throughout this ordeal.  And they know what we are going through.  And with my company and my friends, you know, we will get through this. 

SCARBOROUGH:  Again, great support. 

Talking about support, Beth, obviously, there was a dust-up a couple of weeks back with the Aruban people, a so-called protest of 200 or so, saying that they thought you were being to tough on their legal system.  I thought you were actually being way too easy. 

How was the response to your I guess you could call it an apology and you going on the radio show and talking to them and saying, you meant absolutely no disrespect; you just wanted your daughter back?  What—how have the Aruban people responded to you? 

HOLLOWAY TWITTY:  You know, I could really feel the frustration building with—you know, not only with Jug and I and the investigation, but, you know, I could feel their frustration, too. 

I mean, I—I truly was recognizing that they—they, too, are suffering in this and they are victims in this.  And I—you know, I think we just reached that point where it was inevitable, something was about to happen.  And, you know, I think now that I feel like we have worked through that somewhat.  And I—you know, I am not feeling that anymore.  I am not feeling their—as much frustration from them or everyone—everyone is being now—everyone now is being—they're being so receptive to me and supportive of me.

So, you know, I am hoping that that was just something that—you know, it was—it happened at the time, but I am—I am just—I am not experiencing that anymore from them at all. 

SCARBOROUGH:  Well, that's great. 

You know, in a recent radio interview, I was given this quote.  You had said that you knew that Natalee was ripped from your life.  You said you knew the second when Natalee was ripped from your life.  What do you mean by that?  Are you talking about the night that she disappeared? 

HOLLOWAY TWITTY:  You know—right. 

You know, I think what I—when I was speaking of that is, you know, somebody was saying, you know, what separates Natalee, I think, from any other 18-year-old girl at that moment in her life?  And, to me, what it was, was, Natalee was ripped from her life.  And, you know, it was—it's just she is certainly a victim of this.  And she—you know, I just think about her character and her record and her—you know, her personality.

And I know—I know that Natalee truly is a victim when I was speaking of that and that she has been ripped from her life. 


Talk—talk about, if you will, your relationship with Natalee.  You have shown obviously—and I think most parents, obviously, most parents would show a dedication to their children.  But you have been a tireless advocate.  And you have been a fighter.  You said you are not going to leave the island until you know the truth about Natalee. 

And I think people, not just in America, but also across the world, have been inspired by your fight for justice for Natalee.  Talk about your relationship with Natalee, that special relationship that has grown over 18 years. 

HOLLOWAY TWITTY:  You know, if I were going to speak of being an advocate for Natalee, I think that I would have to include—you know, I have taught—I have taught public school for 22 years. 

I am not only an advocate for Natalee.  But any mother of any child that I have ever taught would know that I am a huge advocate for any child.  And I want to make sure that is—you know, that is who I am and that's who I have always been. 

SCARBOROUGH:  Right.  Right. 

But, again, talk about, though, your relationship with Natalee. 


SCARBOROUGH:  What—what—what—again, you are around children. 


SCARBOROUGH:  You've got—you know children.  You know, obviously, people like me.  I have got—you know, I have got two boys.

But you look at—you look at different parents.  I look at fathers. 

I look at mothers.  And you can just pick them out and say, you know what?  There's a special link between those two.  I think a lot of people, even though they didn't know you before this tragedy, they have picked up that you and Natalee had a special link, too.  Talk about that.  Talk about—talk about her. 

HOLLOWAY TWITTY:  Oh, oh, we did.

And, I mean, there was nothing that Natalee could not tell me.  You know, I know Natalee extremely well.  And, you know, she is just—you know, I know her—her different sides, I mean, from her—you know, she has this serious academic side.  But, you know, also, Natalee has—you know, has a side of her that just enjoys life.  And she's—you know, she loves her friends and a playful side, too.

So, you know, but our relationship, you know, it was extremely close. 

And, you know, I am just so grateful that, you know, we had that. 

SCARBOROUGH:  Jug, let me—let me throw it to you for final thoughts tonight, again, separated from the wife you love so much, separated from this search right now, because you have got business that you have got to take care of in Birmingham, but you are going—again, going back down there to continue helping with the search. 

Any final thoughts tonight, not only for all of America, but also for your wife? 

TWITTY:  Well, you know, I wish, Joe, that Paulus van der Sloot and Deepak's parents would come forward and talk to the media, like Beth and I are here tonight and telling you everything we can tell you to try to help find Natalee, because you talk about the parents' relationship. 

If they want to—if they want to take care of their children like we want to take care of Natalee and find Natalee, they can just step forward and tell you guys the truth and help us find Natalee. 

SCARBOROUGH:  No doubt about it. 

Hey, Jug, Beth, thank you so much for being with us again tonight.  And know, as always, that our thoughts and our prayers remain with you and your family in the coming weeks and months. 

TWITTY:  Thank you. 

HOLLOWAY TWITTY:  Thank you so much for having us both on. 

SCARBOROUGH:  All right.  Thanks again. 

So, I guess the big question tonight across America and also in Aruba is, will the discovery of those strands of hair finally lead to a break in this case? 

With me now to talk about the evidence and what it means in the case is former FBI profiler Clint Van Zandt. 

Clint, you have obviously been listening to Natalee's parents. 


SCARBOROUGH:  I'll tell you what.  They are remarkable.  They are remarkable people.  I'll tell you what.  I would be so angry.  I would be beyond myself with the way the Aruban authorities have screwed over this family, have botched this investigation. 

I mean, let's start with the DNA evidence, first of all.  What are they doing waiting seven weeks taking DNA evidence, when they knew these three men, the night she disappeared, had to be the key suspects? 

VAN ZANDT:  Yes.  Yes. 

Well, you know—well, for me, Joe, investigation 101 would have been

right away to get blood samples from Natalee's biological mother and father

to establish that known, and then, any suspect, to get a court order.  Now

·         and, you know, for the Arubans, they tried a week ago, a week ago.  You know, I mean, this is like—this is like the caboose trying to catch up with the engine, Joe.  And just it's not doing it.  It's not catching up. 

This investigation is—everything seems to be somewhere between four and six weeks late in what they are doing.  So, they went out.  They ask a week ago, you know, would you mind giving us DNA?  And the suspects, you know, rightfully so, said, get a court order and we will do it. 

So, they did it.  But only now do we have this.  And, you know, this -

·         this evidence, Joe, I hope, I hope, I hope.  You know, I sit here, Joe, just like you, as a father. 


SCARBOROUGH:  Well, and, Clint, wait, wait, wait.  Hold it a second. 

I—I—before we get to the evidence, I want to, again...


SCARBOROUGH:  I just want to ask you a question.  We are going to get to that in a second.  But let me tell you what we are going to try to rip the lid off of here in SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY tonight. 

VAN ZANDT:  All right. 

SCARBOROUGH:  We are going to bear down.  We are not going to investigate Natalee's disappearance.  We are going to investigate the investigators.  And I want you to tell me tonight, is it just a matter of different styles?  Maybe the Arubans investigate a murder differently from the United States.  Or is this, just like you said, basic law enforcement 101?  There is no excuse for the way they botched this investigation, the way they delayed in getting these suspects in, the way they delayed in getting DNA evidence, the way they delayed in, again, securing these three people and getting their stories down the first, the second night, as Jug suggested they should have. 

VAN ZANDT:  Well, Joe, we are hearing right now that the suspects we are looking at right here on your show, that these guys have given somewhere between eight and 15 different stories.  You know, as an investigator...

SCARBOROUGH:  Unbelievable.

VAN ZANDT:  ... you, as a reporter, as a congressman, we lock people in right away.  We get a story.  We lock them in that story, and then we investigate it. 

It seems like, when the Arubans, they do interviews differently.  They sit down.  They let you tell your story.  They write it down.  They say thank you very much and they go on their way again, where I think an American investigator, an FBI agent, we are going to sit there and we're going to hammer them.  We are going to say, hey, you said this, and, you know, we are coming up with all these differences in your story.  Let's account for these differences. 

Joe, they had—they had over a month before these guys got lawyered up, where they could say and they could investigate and they could interview.  And they blew, as far as I'm concerned, some great chances to get the information.  And all they did was take all these stories.  I mean, you know, you can tape these things together and they are going to run from Washington to Aruba, if we are not careful.


VAN ZANDT:  So many different versions of this story. 

SCARBOROUGH:  You know, the—the amazing thing is, too, Clint, even with all that time, they still came up with, like you said, eight, nine, 10, 15 different stories. 


SCARBOROUGH:  I can tell you, when we went on investigative committees, whether it was the Judiciary Committee on Capitol Hill or Government Reform and Oversight, somebody comes to our committee, gives us 10, 15 different stories, we are going to keep digging until they go to jail. 

Clint, stay with us, because, on the other side of this break, I want to talk about that DNA evidence, again, breaking news tonight.  It wasn't just four strands.  They actually found a wad of blonde hair inside that duct tape.  It's going to Virginia.  The FBI is looking at it.  It's going to Dutch authorities across the sea.  We are going to see what happens. 

And I am going to ask Clint Van Zandt, again, a guy that's been around the block, and he has done this more times than we can count, going to ask him what it all means, as we continue our investigation into the search for Natalee and also the investigation of the investigators. 

That's when SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY returns. 


SCARBOROUGH:  Seen on TV, shows like “Medium,” where people try to crack cases through psychic powers.  Well, it's happening in the Natalee Holloway case, also.  EquuSearch has hired someone to do the same thing.  We will tell you about that when SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY returns.

But, first, here's the latest news that you and your family need to know. 


SCARBOROUGH:  We are back with Clint Van Zandt. 

Clint, we have been talking about this new DNA evidence.  Go ahead and tell me, how significant do you think it is? 

VAN ZANDT:  Well, Joe, part of the challenge here is that we know that, in the last few weeks, we have had a grave supposedly that was found in the sand that didn't count.  We found clothing that is washed up that didn't count.  We found that barrel underwater last week that didn't count. 

You know, sometimes, in an investigation, you start grasping for straws.  In this case, I think we are grasping for hair.  But, you know, you are a parent.  I am a parent.  You and I would dance with the devil to save our kids.  And, right now, let's get this hair.  Let's rule it in, rule it out.  But I'm afraid, Joe, I'm afraid this is a piece of duct tape with somebody else's hair that was floating on the water. 

SCARBOROUGH:  And you say it's all over the place down there, right? 

VAN ZANDT:  Yes.  You know, I have been down there diving before.  And, you know, you have duct tape.  You strap it on your B.C. or your tank or something.  I mean, how many blondes do you see on the beach in Aruba that this might have some relationship to? 

And as the—and as the Twittys have told us, this is on the opposite side of the island.  So, I don't blame them for not getting their hopes up very much on this one. 

SCARBOROUGH:  All right.  Thank you so much, Clint Van Zandt.  As always, we really do appreciate it. 

VAN ZANDT:  Thank you, Joe. 

SCARBOROUGH:  Well, moving on in this investigation, there's a real-life medium who is helping the Holloway family.  In fact, when Natalee's father, Dave Holloway, bumped into the van der Sloots outside the jail where Joran is being held, there was another woman there.  And you can see here in the video.  Her name is Mary Ann Morgan.  She is a medium who came to Aruba at the request of the EquuSearch, the EquuSearch team from Texas.

She says she has communicated with Natalee and she's provided notes about those communications to authorities who are investigating this case. 

And she is with us now. 

Mary Ann, thank you so much for being with us tonight. 


SCARBOROUGH:  Obviously, a lot of people have a lot of questions about people who are mediums, people that—that get involved in these sort of investigations.  Talk about what you found when you went down to Aruba. 

MORGAN:  When I went to Aruba, I had information before I got there.

So, what I did was, I provided the seven pages of notes to the proper authorities.  And then I searched with the EquuSearch team.  We dove in spots that I was providing longitude and latitude for.  And then we did some ground searches.  I really didn't feel like the ground searching was going to reveal anything.  I feel like Natalee was probably placed in the ocean. 

And then I really got close with Dave Holloway.  And I spent some time with Beth.  I shared messages from Natalee with both of them.  And...


SCARBOROUGH:  Can you tell what those messages are? 

MORGAN:  No, I will not tell you what the messages are.  They are private messages, very—very special for their mother, for the mother and the father. 

SCARBOROUGH:  Did—in these messages that you claim you received, were you given any leads in the investigation, what happened that night? 

MORGAN:  Actually, the information was so good that one of the main authorities was given the information verbally.  And then that person asked to speak with me in person one time.  And I did.

And some information was confirmed that I gave to this person, and she was very, very good about telling me what I was right about and what I was not. 

SCARBOROUGH:  You know, Mary Ann, obviously, a lot of people very fascinated by what you do.  Also, you know you have got a lot, probably a lot more skeptics.  And yet, the fascination has gotten to such a point that, as you know, there's an NBC show on there. 

MORGAN:  Right. 

SCARBOROUGH:  Where somebody does something that you do.

How does it work with you?  Is it like the TV show?  Is it like you see in the movies?  Do you wake up in the middle of the night with a bad dream?  Do you go into a dark room, light candles?  What is your technique?  And when did you figure out that you could do something that other people could not do? 

MORGAN:  Well, it started when I was 3 years old.  I started hearing voices.

And then, as I grew up over the years, all my gifts developed.  But, actually, the show “Medium” is about a medium that I was studied with at the University of Arizona.  She was studied there also, along with John Edward, myself, Allison Dubois, Laurie Campbell.  And very credible mediums come out of the University of Arizona. 

Dr. Gary Schwartz did all the studies. 


SCARBOROUGH:  Where does the power come from?  Is it from God?  Is it from spirits?  Is it from people in the afterlife?  What is it? 

MORGAN:  Well, I don't believe we ever cease to exist. 

I believe we just cross over into another dimension and then we go on to be with the creator, which is God to some people, which is Jehovah to another person or Allah.  There's so many different names, but, in all essence, it's the same creator.  And I believe that we just cross over.

And sometimes—and, in Natalee's case, she has actually told me that she is not really at rest yet because her free will was imposed upon.  And she shared all of her messages with me.  And, like I said, I shared those messages with her family, and...


SCARBOROUGH:  Were they comforted by—were they comforted by those messages? 

MORGAN:  Yes, I believe so. 

SCARBOROUGH:  Well, tell me...


MORGAN:  Very peaceful. 

SCARBOROUGH:  Let me—let me play devil's advocate here.  Obviously, there are a lot of people, again, who said—saying she is a fraud. 

If she can speak—if she can speak with Natalee, if she has communicated with Natalee, if she's taken seven pages of notes from Natalee, then why can't she just tell us where Natalee is? 

What would you say to those people? 

MORGAN:  Because maybe Natalee is not findable at this point. 

SCARBOROUGH:  And the reason why you don't want to reveal what Natalee told you is what? 

MORGAN:  Well, are you talking about what Natalee told me to tell her parents, or are you talking about what Natalee told me to tell people that would be investigating? 

SCARBOROUGH:  The investigation. 

MORGAN:  The—oh.

SCARBOROUGH:  Obviously, communications for—between parents and Natalee—or conversations are between Natalee and the parents. 

MORGAN:  Right. 

SCARBOROUGH:  We are talking about the investigation, where is she, what happened that night, all those details.

MORGAN:  Those details—when I shared those details with the family and the law enforcement, I gave specific details to Dave Holloway.

And he and I have talked about them at great length.  And to the law enforcement, I gave—I actually copied all my notes.  And, actually, it was seven pages the first time I went to Aruba, and the second time I went to Aruba, it was five pages.  And then, while I was in Aruba, I got another four pages of notes. 

Now, you have to understand, I write kind of big, so that's—you have to understand that some of the pages are, you know—I write big, so it's not like little tiny writing with lots of details.  But the family, I believe, was comforted by what I told them.  The researcher—not the researchers—the investigators were just—they just took everything I said, you know, and it was really good.

And, as far as skeptics, people are skeptical...

SCARBOROUGH:  And, you know—Mary Ann, I'm sorry to interrupt you. 

We are coming up on a hard break.


SCARBOROUGH:  But one thing that fascinates me is Dave Holloway actually taking you to the jail to meet Joran.  Why did he do that? 

MORGAN:  Because, when we talked about it, he said he wanted an objective observer, and he wanted me to read anything that would go on in the situation, because he had seen what I could do firsthand.  And he wanted me to tell him all my feelings around the situation. 

And then when it ended up that we were not supposed to go, it was my insistence that we would go, because I was told that something very important was going to happen. 

SCARBOROUGH:  All right, Mary Ann Morgan, thanks a lot for being with us tonight. 

MORGAN:  You're welcome. 

SCARBOROUGH:  Obviously, again, a lot of skeptics, but a lot of people fascinated by this.  And, obviously, if the parents believe that you are an important part of this investigation, as Natalee's dad does, then it's certainly worth allowing Americans to hear your story, hear what you have been doing in Aruba, and then they can judge for themselves. 

Now, when we come back, we are going to be telling you a shark tale.  Obviously, it's going to be an amazing picture.  This happened out of Massachusetts.  And we will give you the whole story when SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY returns.  Big shark.


SCARBOROUGH:  Tonight, an update on the mysterious story that we first broke last week.  An international search continues for newlywed George Smith IV. 

Now, Smith married Jennifer Hagel in June.  The couple went on a cruise to the Mediterranean.  But the honeymoon ended on July 5, when the 26-year-old Smith vanished from the ship and was sailing between Greece and Turkey.  So, what happened that fateful night?  Did he fall off the ship?  Could he have been murdered? 

Tonight, there are few clues, but so many questions.  The FBI confirms that it is on the case.  We have also heard that the Smith family has traveled to Turkey to try to get answers. 

And with me now to talk about this bizarre story is maritime attorney James Walker.  He is an expert in cases like this. 

James, this is such a difficult case, and I would suspect these are very hard cases to crack. 


SCARBOROUGH:  Tell me, in a case like this, what's the chance of ever solving this case? 

JAMES WALKER, MARITIME ATTORNEY:  The chances are very slim that this is going to come to a successful investigation and conclusion. 

There are lots of factors that come into play in a situation like this.  This particular cruise line, Royal Caribbean Cruises, is a Liberian corporation.  They register their business in Monrovia, Liberia, in the continent of Africa.  This particular ship, the Brilliance of the Seas, is registered in the Bahamas. 

We have a potential crime occurring in international waters between Greece and Turkey.  It's pretty much in a no-man's land right now. 

SCARBOROUGH:  Exactly, James.

So, you have got this ship that's registered in Liberia.  Obviously, and they're in the middle of a civil war.  They are not going to investigate it.  Turkey and Greece aren't going to go after it.  The FBI really doesn't have much authority to do much here.  So, again, like you said, this case is in a no-man's land.  It's up to this poor Smith family from Connecticut to investigate the disappearance and possible murder of their son.

So, it doesn't get solved.  We never find out what really happened on that fateful night, do we? 

WALKER:  Well, it's going to be really the resources of this particular family, the Smith family, that's going to lead to any type of resolution for that family. 

You know, the only time Monrovia, Liberia, is in the news is when there's a civil war, when the rebels are firing their AK-47s.  The Bahamas will not get involved.  Liberia will not get involved.  There's some suggestion that a Turkish judge may be exercising jurisdiction over this.  The cruise line says that it reported this incident to the FBI, but that may mean just one or two agents having an open file. 


SCARBOROUGH:  OK, but I want to stop you.  I want to stop you there. 

And, first of all, we are going to be showing you some exclusive photos that SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY obtained of the ship and what happened during that cruise.  And there are going to be separate pictures. 

So, go ahead and roll those pictures right now, if you will. 

But, you know, this is my problem with the investigation.  I understand the investigation was run by a person who actually defends cruise ships.  And the most shocking thing is that you actually had people that stepped forward.  They—and, first of all, look at that balcony.  Listen, that goes up to somebody's chest, first of all.  They are not going to have a couple of drinks and fall over.  Which is what we were led to believe in the beginning.

And, also, there's somebody who stepped forward.  It's been reported in the Connecticut paper.  They heard screams that night.  They found blood on the awning the next morning.  They reported it to authorities, and nobody got back to them for five days.  Could it be that possibly the problem here is that we have got people that are going to end up defending the cruise line being the first ones on board investigating the cruise line? 

WALKER:  Well, that's precisely the problem, Joe. 

We have probably 40, 45 cases where we have represented passengers who have been victims on cruise ships, many of the ships being Royal Caribbean Cruise ships.  The first investigation that's done is done by the in-house private investigators who are on the ship.  Many cases, the defense attorneys, who subsequently defend any case filed by the passenger's family, actually fly out to the next port.  That's particularly true in the Caribbean. 

And they can actually beat the cruise ship to the next port, and, quite often, the defense attorneys for the cruise lines are the first people up the gangway that—and they will conduct an investigation.  As you know, attorneys have an ethical obligation to zealously represent their client.  So, these attorneys are conducting an investigation solely to defend the cruise line.  And quite often...

SCARBOROUGH:  And that's their responsibility.  And you are exactly right, James.  Their responsibility is to defend their client, to be advocates for their client, not to be advocates for the family of this poor young man who may have passed away. 

Thanks for being with us, James. 

I got to—I just got to tell you, again...

WALKER:  My pleasure.

SCARBOROUGH:  ... bottom line is, the night this happened, a woman heard a scream.  The next morning, she found blood.  She reported it to authorities.  Five days pass before the authorities come back and question her.  Something is going wrong here.  We are going to continue our investigation. 

Now, when we come back, we have got a shark catch that you have got to see to believe.  That's when SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY returns.


SCARBOROUGH:  Now, you think catching an 1,100-pound shark would be enough to win a shark derby, but not enough for these guys.  And, of course, they got the shark from the same place where they filmed “Jaws.”

We'll give you that story when SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY returns.


SCARBOROUGH:  Hey, great to have you back with us tonight.

Of course, last night, a historic night.  We came out and actually started talking about the president's new selection for the Supreme Court, Justice John Roberts, a man that conservatives hailed as, you know, the type of candidate George Bush needed to select.  And why?  Because, in 1990, conservatives were told that this man argued to overturn Roe v. Wade. 

Well, last night, we reported that on the show.  And our banner actually said “Roberts: Overturn Roe v. Wade.'  Well, the White House called us up during the show.  They didn't like the banner.  They said, we owe—we should—we should offer a correction.  That is what I am going to do tonight.

So, conservatives, Republicans, members of Focus on the Family, Dr.  James Dobson, Pat Robertson, pro-life advocates across America, I offer you this correction.  According to the White House, Judge Roberts does not oppose Roe vs. Wade.  Whew.  Glad I got that off my chest. 

And, finally, speaking of sharks in Washington—how is that for a segue?  I made that one up myself, too.  I may have to apologize tomorrow night, if it offends sharks by comparing them to politicians.

But this is, after all, the 30th anniversary of the movie “Jaws,” the flick that scared swimmers out of the water and started the summer blockbuster craze in Hollywood.  Do you remember it?  I do.  The summer—

I think “Saturday Night Fever” was, like, the next year. 

But in a scene straight out of the movie, fishermen competing in the Monster Shark Derby off of Martha's Vineyard last weekend managed to snag an 1,100-pound tiger shark.  But here's the catch.  They missed winning the shark derby because their boat arrived in the harbor six minutes late.  Now, that reality bites. 

That's all the time we have for SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY tonight.  If you would like us to make a correction about anything we said tonight, e-mail me at, and I will give a heartfelt apology tomorrow night. 

Love you.  See you tomorrow in SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY.



Content and programming copyright 2005 MSNBC.  ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.  Transcription Copyright 2005 Voxant, Inc. ALL RIGHTS  RESERVED. No license is granted to the user of this material other than for research. User may not reproduce or redistribute the material except for user's personal or internal use and, in such case, only one copy may be printed, nor shall user use any material for commercial purposes or in any fashion that may infringe upon MSNBC and Voxant, Inc.'s copyright or other proprietary rights or interests in the material. This is not a legal transcript for purposes of litigation.