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'Scarborough Country' for July 26

Read the transcript to the Tuesday show

Guest: Damon Sacco, Susan Filan, Mickey Sherman, Candice DeLong, Linda Allison, Danny Coulson

JOE SCARBOROUGH, HOST:  Breaking news tonight from Aruba. 

Right now, investigators are draining a lake in the area where Natalee went missing eight weeks ago.  You are looking at a shot right now.  This is an area that has been of great interest, great intrigue, not only to investigators down there, but to the FBI and all officials involved in the case tonight.

Of course, night has fallen in Aruba, on that tiny island off the Venezuelan coast, but, tonight, they are draining a lake of interest, and we are going to get you up to date with all the latest and what‘s going on down there and why. 

Welcome to SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY, as we always say, no passport required, only common sense allowed. 

Again, you are looking at authorities in Aruba right now furiously investigating a new lead tonight.  Could it be the break in the Holloway case that changes everything?  We are going to be having live reports throughout the hour.

Plus, an MSNBC exclusive, the private investigator who has made a cold case turn very hot.  What did his witness see that night that Natalee disappeared? 

And another SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY exclusive, the mystery on the Mediterranean cruise.  A woman that was on the ship where missing newlywed George Smith vanished reports that she heard screams the night that he disappeared.  And this shocking bloody photo.  We are going to tell you what it means for the investigation, and, also, what our experts claim it means for this case. 

And then, it‘s not safe to go back into the water.  They caught a 1,200 pound shark, one of the biggest ever, but they didn‘t even get the prize.  The fishermen are going to be here tonight to tell us about the one that got away.  The pictures, you have to see to believe.

ANNOUNCER:  From the press room, to the courtroom, to the halls of Congress, Joe Scarborough has seen it all.  Welcome to SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY.

SCARBOROUGH:  Good evening.  We have got breaking news out of Aruba. 

We are there live. 

Also, a SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY exclusive, a shocking photo that was taken by a passenger on the same cruise as the missing American newlywed George Smith IV.  Look at this picture.  Many believe it could break this case wide open.  We are going to take you inside the investigation and talk to somebody who is a family member who actually took that shot. 

But first, as we say, major news tonight, breaking news tonight out of Aruba, a new witness who says he saw the suspects at 3:00 a.m. on the night Natalee Holloway disappeared also leads private investigators to a flooded marsh near the hotel where she was last seen with Joran van der Sloot.  Now, we are going to have an exclusive interview with him.

And for the latest on all the activity unfolding tonight in Aruba as we speak, let‘s go live down to Aruba and NBC‘s Michelle Kosinski. 

Michelle, this investigation keeps heating up by the day.  Tell us what‘s going on behind you tonight. 

MICHELLE KOSINSKI, NBC CORRESPONDENT:  Well, this is the most activity we have seen in a long time on this island. 

We saw this develop all of a sudden earlier this afternoon.  Here it is still going on.  Fire crews and investigators are out here draining this field, not far from the Marriott Hotel, where the Kalpoe brothers say they dropped Natalee Holloway and Joran van der Sloot off the morning she disappeared.  You saw that drainage area.  That‘s where they are pumping the water to. 

This is a place where water has collected after the last storm blew through here.  Why are they draining this field?  Well, it‘s all based on that new witness‘ statement.  He claims early the morning that Natalee vanished, he was out here cutting through this desolate field on a dirt road to get to a friend‘s house.  He said he spots the Kalpoe brothers and Joran van der Sloot parked in a car on the same dirt road. 

This would be after the time the Kalpoe brothers said they had already returned home that night.  We saw fire crews installing these enormous pumps.  They started early today, and they are expecting this to take them well into tomorrow afternoon, if not evening. 

SCARBOROUGH:  Michelle, this is remarkable information, developing information.  I know everybody tonight that‘s watching your report down there in Aruba have to be asking the same question.  If this gardener saw these—these three young men in this area near where Natalee disappeared, why is it that it‘s taken eight weeks to come forward to authorities and tell them this side of the story? 

KOSINSKI:  That‘s a good question.  But it‘s interesting.  This new witness did not come forward on his own.  There are two private investigators now on this island who have been hired by the local newspaper.  They have been working the streets on this island for the past five to six weeks. 

They located this witness, a gardener.  They say he was afraid to come forward.  He was afraid to talk to anyone.  He wasn‘t looking for any kind of reward.  They convinced him to tell them his story and to go to police and then tell police his story.  And, obviously out here, police have been taking this very seriously. 

Remember, this is the same witness statement that sparked that reenactment we saw yesterday involving the FBI and Aruban police.  They actually brought the Kalpoe brothers‘ car back out here to this same field yesterday.  And, tonight, obviously, they want to get this water out of here.  The investigators also told us it took them a month to track down this witness. 

SCARBOROUGH:  And, of course, tonight, Michelle, also, obviously, this investigation, the draining of this area comes soon after, again, the three new witnesses come forward.  You have the DNA evidence last week, where the—the three suspects are forced to go surrender their DNA evidence.  You have got the Aruban prime minister coming out, saying that he wants the FBI to be more involved.  It seems like there‘s a quickening of this investigation, plus the $1 million reward. 

Why do you sense that things have picked up so quickly over the past week?  What are people saying on the island?  How are authorities reacting?  How are—how are the family members reacting, reacting, again, to the quickening of the pace of this investigation? 

KOSINSKI:  I was able to talk to Natalee‘s mother tonight.  She was very excited about these developments.  They seemed all to come at the same time, having nothing, we are told, to do with the reward.  These witnesses came forward or didn‘t come forward, the case may be, just because of timing, and the way the investigators were able to identify them. 

Also, that—that DNA evidence that is being examined, that was hair found on a piece of duct tape that was found apparently by chance, washed up along a cove.  So, a number of these things have come together quickly.  Also, there‘s a new top investigator on this case.  So, some speculate that he is also quickening the pace of things, as far as how extensively we are able to search. 

We should also mention that this area has been searched before by dogs and people on foot.  But, obviously, they have found reason in this witness‘ statement to search it all over again. 

SCARBOROUGH:  All right, Michelle, thanks a lot.  Stay with us.  We are going to be back with you tonight, obviously, keeping everybody up to date with what‘s going on, also having your exclusive interview with that investigator.

But right now, let‘s bring in former FBI agent Danny Coulson. 

Danny, I want to show you photos, again, of what‘s going on right now in Aruba.  Obviously, they are draining this area.  They are draining this lake.  I guess what a lot of Americans are saying tonight, as they see these photos, as they hear these latest developments, why did it take eight weeks for them to investigate this area?  And is this already a cold case?  Is there any way for them to find what they are looking for eight weeks into the investigation? 


As a matter of fact, a lot of people don‘t come forward when you think they would or when you hope they would. 


SCARBOROUGH:  So, this is nothing—I mean, so, you are not shocked tonight, Danny.


SCARBOROUGH:  You are not shocked tonight that this guy saw these three boys parked in this remote part of the island, and this gardener comes by eight weeks later and says, by the way, I have got information that could break this case wide open?

COULSON:  Not really.

SCARBOROUGH:  Not surprising to you?

COULSON:  Joe, there—there—there is a—there is a tendency among some people want not to want to get involved.  And that may be the case here.

He may be a very simple man that doesn‘t want notoriety.  He may be frightened.  There could be a lot of reasons.  But a couple of things come to mind, if I might just point them out to you.  The FBI and the local police just did a reenactment.  And I am wondering why they didn‘t do the reenactment at night. 

The witness saw these subjects in the nighttime.  They do a daytime reenactment.  It seemed like, if they are going to test his credibility, they would have reenacted in the evening time to see if he‘s that credible.  Could he have seen what he said he saw?  And his credibility is the most important thing we are dealing with here. 

SCARBOROUGH:  Now, this new witness comes forward.  Obviously, if he is to be believed—and if you look at all the activity going on in Aruba tonight, obviously, authorities are taking him fairly seriously.  I guess the question is, if they—if they trust him, if they believe that these brothers may have been out at 3:00 a.m. in the morning, that obviously proves once again they are lying to police. 

Is that enough to haul the Kalpoe brothers back into jail? 

COULSON:  It could be.  You have to understand that we may be dealing with charges other than murder or kidnapping.  You also have charges that involve obstruction of justice. 

If they gave false statements to local authorities that now we know to be false, that they could very well be charged with a variety of violations.  One could be lying to a police officer or giving false information, obstructing justice.  So, there‘s—there could be grounds to bring them back, sure, put them back in custody now, and let‘s do some more interviews. 

SCARBOROUGH:  Danny, let‘s get personal.  What—what is going on in this case?  I mean, it seems to me like we hit a dead end, two, three, four weeks ago.  Now there‘s a flurry of activity.  You know, the cynic in me says, of course, this is the Aruban authorities that are trying to cover up for past mistakes.  You had the Alabama legislature come out last week, and they passed a resolution saying nobody should travel to Aruba. 

Are they trying to cover their tracks?  Or, again, sometimes, in investigations, all of a sudden, a light switch comes on and you have frantic activity that eventually leads to a case being solved?

COULSON:  Well, I think that the government in Aruba now is very embarrassed.  Whether or not the police agencies are embarrassed or not remains to be seen.

But all the pressure really has come from the higher-ups in the government that are now forcing the Aruban authorities to now cooperate with the FBI, give the FBI all the transcripts of all the interviews, which they should have given them contemporaneously.  They shouldn‘t be doing it now, two months later. 

There‘s been no sense of urgency, Joe, in this case.  I have worked kidnapping cases a good part of my life, and you get on those things, and you go 100 miles an hour initially, because that‘s the most important part of the case.  We even know that the family were the first people to identify and interview the subjects.  How did that happen?  What—what were the police doing?  How did—how did it work out that the family gets way out in front of the police? 

So, either they didn‘t take it seriously.


COULSON:  And then they got bogged down, and then they refused to help

·        I‘m sorry—to take help that the FBI could have provided to them very early—very early on. 

SCARBOROUGH:  Very early on in the case.  And, like you said, that‘s a critical time.  You got the mother the first night going down there, says to authorities, I have talked to these people.  Their stories don‘t add up.  You need to go talk to them.  You need to investigate. 

COULSON:  Absolutely. 

SCARBOROUGH:  Instead, 10, 11 days later...

COULSON:  Absolutely.

SCARBOROUGH:  ... that‘s when they haul them in.  So much evidence probably destroyed. 

Danny, thanks a lot for being with us. 

Stay with us, because, obviously...

COULSON:  Thank you, Joe.  It‘s good to see you. 

SCARBOROUGH:  Yes.  Well, we want you to stick around and talk about another shocking photo.  We will be back with you in a little bit.

But, first, let‘s go back to Aruba and NBC‘s Michelle Kosinski, who had an exclusive interview with the man who found this new witness that is causing such a ruckus tonight. 

Michelle, tell us all about it. 

KOSINSKI:  Well, he‘s a former Secret Service agent.  And he said that this witness is extremely credible.  His story does not change.  He seems very certain about details.  Here‘s some of what he told us earlier today. 


ART WOOD, PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR:  Maybe four weeks ago, I heard that there was—had been a domino game at the prison, where one of the Kalpoe brothers had been told that someone saw him behind the racket club the night that Natalee disappeared, and that he became ashen and white and turned the dominoes over and left the game. 

We spent four weeks trying to track the lead down.  Eventually, last Friday, we located a gardener, who was working at a residence not far from the racket club.  He lives in that area, but he has no air conditioning.  About 2:30, between 2:30 and 3:00 in the morning on the night that Natalee disappeared, he left his residence and went across a dirt road to go to a residence where there‘s air conditioning. 

He—when he went around the one turn on this dirt road, there was a car blocking his way.  He had to slow down to almost a stop to go over a little hill to get past them.  When he got to that car, he noticed that Joran van der Sloot was driving, and Joran tried to cover his face.  The other passenger in the front seat was one of the Kalpoe brothers, who also put his hands up like this.  And the back seat passenger ducked down. 

This witness is a simple man that was just trying to get to an air-conditioned apartment at the time.  He didn‘t come forward to claim a reward or anything like that.  His story doesn‘t change.  He is steadfast in what he saw, who he saw, the car he saw and where it happened.  We believe that all three, the Kalpoe brothers and Joran van der Sloot, are involved in the disappearance of Natalee Holloway. 

And this witness destroys the timeline of their alibi.  There‘s no way they could have been home at—and in bed by 3:00 a.m. if they were in that field behind the racket club at quarter to 3:00. 


KOSINSKI:  These private investigators also confirm to us that there is a second witness out there who claims that he saw something happen at the landfill here in Aruba, and that he knows where Natalee Holloway‘s body is placed. 

We don‘t know the extent of his credibility, as it‘s perceived by authorities at this point.  But we do know EquuSearch volunteers are coming back to the island as soon as possible.  They want to use ground-penetrating radar, not only on this area, but they also want to gain access to that landfill.

So, we are going to see extensive searching here in various locations within the next few days—Joe. 

SCARBOROUGH:  And, obviously, going on now, obviously going to be going on through the night. 

Michelle Kosinski, thanks a lot.  We greatly appreciate it. 

Michelle is going to be standing by for any more developments tonight throughout the hour, as we monitor the search in Aruba.

And, also, we are going to be getting reaction from Natalee‘s aunt live from Aruba.

And also, coming up, we‘ve been on top of this new story since it broke.  Tonight, a bombshell, a stunning photo sent to us from a family member whose cabin was close to the missing honeymooner.  What does it mean to this case?  We are going to have the very latest on that. 

And, also, a shark story, an amazing story you are going to have to see to believe.  The men who reeled this one in are here to talk about it tonight with new photos. 

Stay with us, a big night in SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY.  And we‘re just getting started.


SCARBOROUGH:  More developments in Aruba coming up next, plus, frightening moments in Florida tonight.  Take a look at what happened to a Red Sox pitcher.  We are going to have the latest on his condition.  It‘s not good.  It certainly wasn‘t good there.  Hopefully, he is recovering.  

And we will get you the very latest in a minute.


SCARBOROUGH:  Authorities in Aruba tonight pumping water from a flooded area near a hotel, where Natalee was last seen with Joran, all based on the story of a witness who was there. 

You are looking at photos of that video, shots of that right now, a search that‘s been going on this evening.  It‘s going to continue through tomorrow.  They are going to drain the entire area, again, based on reports of a witness who was there that night, who claims he saw the three young men in this secluded area at 3:00 a.m., which, of course, is much later than when the young men said they dropped her off and went to bed. 

Let‘s get the family‘s reaction to tonight‘s latest developments and also more from Natalee‘s aunt, Linda Allison. 

Linda, thank you so much for being with us tonight. 

Here, we—we are seeing this investigation going on.  And, of course, also, we hear now another witness comes forward and says, these boys are lying again.  They can‘t get their stories straight.  What‘s your reaction?  What‘s the family‘s reaction? 

LINDA ALLISON, AUNT OF NATALEE HOLLOWAY:  Well, obviously after I had spoken with two of my media contacts, actually, an NBC cameraperson that I spoke with this evening, just to verify the credibility of this witness.

And he assured me that this is a very credible witness that has come forward, that this person is very sincere in what he has to say.  And so, I am taking this very serious, that this witness did actually see these three boys in this area that we are talking about.  They were very—he was very specific, the witness was, about explaining about being on this dirt road and how he had to veer off to the left away from their car to try to get around the car.

And, actually, the car almost got stuck on the sand dune.  And so, he actually, it sounds like, almost had to stop to try to get his car off the sand dune to get around their vehicle.  So, it wasn‘t like he was passing by so quickly that he would not be able to identify these three, but apparently drove very close to the car and very slowly to see these three.  So, I am hoping that this is, again, going to be another piece of information that we have that‘s going to put more of a timetable together, and, again, show that these three suspects are lying again. 

SCARBOROUGH:  Lying once again.  They have been caught in so many lies, despite the fact Aruban authorities, of course, as we all know, gave them 10 days to be out of jail after Natalee disappeared to get their stories straight, been caught in three, four, five, six different lies.  Now a new witness comes forward.

And the amount of detail that you are telling me right now that this witness gave to authorities really is remarkable.  And it sounds like it could break the case wide open. 

But you are doing something to try to help break the case wide open, too.  You have set up a Web site, and you are focusing on Joran van der Sloot‘s past behavior, the possibility of being very aggressive with young women in Aruba.  Tell us about that.  Tell us what you are doing.  And where did you get the idea? 

ALLISON:  Well, for the five or six weeks that I was there in Aruba, I actually heard on several different occasions that this Joran van der Sloot has been very aggressive with women.  Especially, he likes to prey on—on American teens, young women that come to the island. 

He seems to be approaching them when he finds out it‘s their last evening that they are there on the island.  And what I want to do with this Web site, which is Hope For Natalee,, is to ask any young lady that is out here that hears this tonight that is either from Aruba or from any other country that has visited Aruba and has some type of encounter, whether Joran van der Sloot threatened them in some way or possibly drugged their drink, or even if it was possible rape. 

SCARBOROUGH:  Well, you just hit on something, Linda, that, of course, we have all been hearing about for some time.  You have been down in Aruba, obviously, about as close to this investigation as you can be, as a family member.

Have you heard of reports, that Joran van der Sloot, as we have been hearing, has a possible history of approaching American women, putting drugs in their drink, and then taking them away from the bar? 

ALLISON:  I have heard that.  And I heard several different instances where that‘s happened.  And, of course, someone out there may have information that they have been too embarrassed to even discuss in the past, that maybe they would step forward and respond to that e-mail address or possibly even, if they wanted to call one of those numbers that‘s on that reward poster, just to give their story, anything that would help us to kind of give a pattern.

If Joran van der Sloot is capable of doing this with other girls, maybe this is something that he did the night that Natalee disappeared. 

SCARBOROUGH:  And again, we just have to say this.  We are just saying maybe, again.  There‘s been talk of this from almost the very beginning, but no hard evidence yet.  That‘s why you are setting up the Web site, to see if there is evidence out there of young women going down to Aruba, being drugged, as you said, on the very last night. 

Can you tell us, Linda, very quickly about Natalee‘s last night?  Because we have heard conflicting evidence about what went on that night in the bar.  We have heard from one source that, actually, Natalee was approached several times by Joran van der Sloot, and actually pushed him away twice earlier in the evening, before she disappeared.  Can you either confirm or deny that tonight? 

ALLISON:  Actually, I haven‘t spoken to any of the other Birmingham teens.  I did speak with Beth and Jug and also with one of my contacts in Birmingham.

And Natalee was introduced to Joran at a casino at the Holiday Inn that evening just in passing and did not have any type of long conversation with him.  And then he showed up at Carlos ‘n Charlie‘s later that night.

And one of the concerns that I have is that he possibly could have put a drug in her drink.  We also speculate that, as they were leaving this area, that she may have been under the impression that she was sharing a taxicab with him.


ALLISON:  That there was some speculation that he was just a visiting

·        a visitor there on the island also and may have posed as someone that was also staying at the Holiday Inn.  So, how innocent would it be to think that she is sharing a taxicab with someone and not really know that she is getting in a car where Deepak possibly was the driver?

SCARBOROUGH:  Yes, obviously a lot of questions still up in the air. 

Linda, thanks for being with us. 

ALLISON:  Thank you. 

SCARBOROUGH:  Obviously, we are going to continue posting your Web site, as we have been doing tonight.  Going to also have it up on my Web site,, a link to it, where you can get information to the family. 

And of course, coming up next, we have got an exclusive.  Could this be a photo of what appears to be blood? 

Actually, right now, you are looking at a shot of Aruba.  That‘s a live shot.  The investigation continues down in Aruba right now.  They are draining an area.  Remarkable new information coming forward from this new witness, who claims, claims he saw these three young men in this area the night Natalee disappeared.  And we are going to be going back to Aruba with any breaking news.

And also, could this photo, could it possibly be—well, could it be the blood of the young man who was possibly pushed off the ledge and could it be a clue investigators need to find out what really happened to the missing American newlywed on July 5? 

And then, a line drive knocks this Red Sox pitcher right off the mound.  We will give you the latest on his condition.  That‘s from earlier this evening. 


SCARBOROUGH:  We have been showing you video of sharks attacking, but not this time.  This is a shark tale you are going to have to see to believe. 

But, first, here‘s the latest news you and your family need to know. 


SCARBOROUGH:  Welcome back. 

I‘ll tell you what, a big show tonight and big breaking news out of Aruba.  Authorities down there draining a swamp, an area because of what a witness has told authorities.  We are going—going to, of course, be going back to Aruba, speaking to NBC‘s Michelle Kosinski, for any breaking news that warrants us going back down there throughout the hour. 

Also, another SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY exclusive tonight, an important update on the story that we have been bringing you about George Smith, the man who vanished from his honeymoon cruise on July the 5th somewhere between Greece and Turkey.  In a minute, our panel of legal and forensic experts are going to dissect what‘s going on with this case. 

But, first, take a look at this photo.  It is an amazing shot that we got today from a passenger on the cruise ship.  She says it‘s a picture of the awning over the lifeboats in the same area where authorities have reported finding blood.  We asked a professional to authenticate the photo for us, and we spoke to former FBI agent Joe Cantamessa, who saw the TWA Flight 800 investigation, and said it has the earmarks of a crime scene. 


JOE CANTAMESSA, FORMER FBI SPECIAL AGENT:  It looks like something or perhaps someone may have fallen onto this area.  From where you go at this point, it‘s really hard to say.  My understanding is, when you get to the edge, you are over the edge and in the water.

So, this could have been a bounce.  This could have been any number of things, depending on the rate of descent and the elasticity of what this particular surface is all about. 


SCARBOROUGH:  I‘ll tell you what.  It is an extraordinary photo.

And now, in a SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY exclusive, somebody who knows this photograph all too well.  Speaking to us by phone tonight is Barbara.  She was a passenger on the cruise that night, and her daughter took the photo.

Now, she wishes to remain anonymous, but we do have her on the telephone. 

Barbara, thank you so much for being with us. 

Now, you were on this cruise.  Tell us, first of all—we had another

exclusive last night, a man who said he heard screaming at 4:00 a.m. in the

morning.  What did you hear that night?  Were you awakened that night and -

·        and what did you hear? 

BARBARA, PASSENGER ON CRUISE:  Yes, I was, Joe.  It was quite a noisy night.  I woke up a lot, a lot of loud noise going on. 

I was two floors below the Smiths, so I doubt if a lot of this noise came from their cabin.  But what I do recall is that, at one point, I had been asleep and I woke up hearing a woman scream.  And it was loud enough that it woke me up and startled me.  And after that, I think I went back to sleep. 

SCARBOROUGH:  So, you heard the woman scream.  It startled you.  Now, the next morning, I understand that you went out.  Your—was it your daughter that took this photo that we have been showing people tonight? 

BARBARA:  That‘s right. 

We got up early for a tour in the morning.  I believe we left the ship before 8:00.  And, within the hour, my daughter showed me her camera, and showed me a photo she had taken that morning.  And, at first, I didn‘t really realize what she was trying to show me, and then she pointed to the picture and said, this is outside my balcony.  I think it‘s blood. 

And, at that time, I recalled being woken up with a scream and wondered if they were connected. 

SCARBOROUGH:  It‘s a remarkable photo.  I mean, you can—it looks like you can, actually, looking at it, make the outlines out of the legs, the body area. 

When you—when you saw this, did you—did you approach authorities about this photo? 

BARBARA:  I didn‘t see the blown-up shot until I got home, but when I saw that shot and then heard the—and heard the—connected it with the scream, when the captain got on the ship later that afternoon and said someone had gone overboard, I wondered if they needed to know this information.

So, I went to the guest relations desk and reported that I had heard a scream.  And they took my cabin number down. 

SCARBOROUGH:  So—and let me ask you this.  This is the $64,000 question, because, last night, when I was—when we spoke to the man who heard all the screaming next door and believed that he actually heard a thud, that something was thrown from the balcony, he said that he didn‘t hear from the FBI or any other officials for quite some time. 

After you—you went and you talked to these people, did any authorities come talk to you, any of the FBI or any of the authorities from Turkey talk to you about this bloody picture or the scream that you heard that night? 

BARBARA:  Never. 

SCARBOROUGH:  That‘s remarkable. 

BARBARA:  The only—the only—the only people I talked to were ship‘s attorneys.  I believe the cruise ended on Monday and they had ship‘s attorneys flown in, and we talked with them on the Sunday. 

SCARBOROUGH:  Wow.  Barbara, it is a remarkable story.  It‘s a remarkable photo.  We greatly appreciate you being with us tonight.

And I will tell you what.  For anybody out there that is interested in breaking this case, how do you not go and talk to people that took this photo?  How do you not go to talk to people who were adjacent to these rooms hearing people screaming at 4:00 a.m. in the morning, Barbara, two floors down, hearing a woman scream about the same time?  It is remarkable. 

And let‘s bring in now former FBI profiler Candice DeLong, defense attorney Mickey Sherman, and also former prosecutor Susan Filan.

I got to go to you first, Candice.  I mean, let‘s start adding this up.  You have got a blood-stained awning.  The photo—and it almost—it almost is like tape around a body on that awning. 



SCARBOROUGH:  And yet, nobody is talking to people taking these pictures.  Nobody is talking to people that hear screams at 4:00 a.m. in the morning.  Nobody is talking to anybody. 

The only people that are working this case right now are actually attorneys that are working for the cruise lines who are being aggressive.  Obviously, it‘s in their best interest that none of this ever gets out. 

What is going on here? 

DELONG:  Well, it‘s out now, isn‘t it? 

SCARBOROUGH:  It is out tonight. 


DELONG:  Right.  I have no idea at what point law enforcement was called in.  Of course, this should have been reported to ship security immediately and the investigation started, and then of course, as soon as they docked somewhere, then get the FBI involved. 

I have no idea why these things haven‘t been done, but you can be sure they are going to be done now.  One of the things that concerns me about that photograph is, Joe, that looks like a puddle of blood to me, a puddle. 

SCARBOROUGH:  Yes.  No, there certainly is a puddle.  It looks like you have the outline of the legs.

And then, if you look in the middle of that photo, right where his torso would be, you are right.

DELONG:  Right. 

SCARBOROUGH:  It looks like a puddle of blood.  We had a guy on last night, an exclusive last night, who tells us, at 4:00 a.m., he hears screaming.  He hears something that he thinks is a couch being thrown overboard.  He hears a thud.  He goes to authorities the next morning, when he finds out this man is missing.  They never come back and investigate. 

Susan Filan, let me bring you in here.  What is going on?  First Aruba, now the Mediterranean cruise.  It seems like there are a lot of murder—possible murders going on out there, and the FBI, other authorities not doing what is required.  What is the first thing you would want done as a prosecutor? 

SUSAN FILAN, FORMER PROSECUTOR:  Well, I would want these people interviewed.  I would have loved to have had that crime scene, if you want to call it a crime scene, preserved. 

That—I agree with Candice.  It absolutely looks like pooling of blood.  And in order for there to be pooling of blood, it‘s probably unlikely that it was a casual toss or an accidental fall over a railing.  It‘s probably that there was some kind of an open wound, either a bullet or knife, that, when the body, if it‘s a body, in fact, fell, that‘s where you get the pooling of blood, it looks like from the chest cavity area, not perhaps an accidental fall from the head.

So, I would really want to look at that blood itself, rather than just a photograph.  I would want these people interviewed.  And you say that the FBI may not be doing their job.  Well, maybe it‘s like Aruba.  Maybe they are not being allowed to.  Maybe they are not being let in.  Maybe we have some sort of jurisdictional, territorial spat.

SCARBOROUGH:  Yes, but, Susan, here‘s the deal, though, OK?  They have this bloody scene.  The cruise ship knows they are missing a man, possibly that he went overboard.  What do they do?  They clean up the crime scene.  They clean up the awning.

FILAN:  And that is my point.  Shame on them, not shame on the FBI. 

SCARBOROUGH:  It is remarkable.

FILAN:  Shame on them.

SCARBOROUGH:  OK, well, I‘m not—well, OK.  Well, I will tell you what.  What—this happened the night of July the 4th, night of July the 5th

I think the—hey, if the FBI is investigating this tonight, as we have been told, I recommend that you call Barbara, FBI agents, and talk about this blood-splattered photo that you obviously haven‘t followed up on yet. 

Let me ask you, Mickey Sherman, at this point, is it going to be almost impossible to nail anybody with the murder, if a murder occurred?  Obviously, you have got a graveyard all around this cruise ship.  Somebody goes overboard, you never recover the body.  It‘s going to be impossible to nail somebody on this, isn‘t it? 

MICKEY SHERMAN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY:  Without a confession, certainly.  And unless you get one of these late-breaking identification of witnesses, like we seem to have, if, in fact, we have it in Aruba, I‘ve got to—I think it‘s a tough situation. 

You know, you are talking about a cruise ship.  The FBI, last I checked, doesn‘t have an office on most of our cruise ships.  You know, they are usually policed by people who are perhaps ex-police officers or people who didn‘t want to become a police officer, but wanted some authority.  They are private police forces who are not generally trained to investigate a murder. 

And the problem with that crime scene, it‘s invaluable, I agree, but it doesn‘t give you any lead as to who did it.  It‘s still a whodunit, not, did it happen?  Oddly, or very sadly, it looks like something very, very sad happened to Mr. Smith.  But it doesn‘t give us any clues, unless there‘s paw prints or fingerprints in blood, as to who the culprit is.  And, of course, we all want to...

SCARBOROUGH:  You are exactly right.  And you know what?  Maybe—I am sure, again, this happened the night of July the 4th, July the 5th, morning of July the 5th.  If there were any fingerprints there, I will guarantee you, they have been cleaned up by now. 

Candice DeLong, what needs to happen?  OK, here‘s exhibit one.  We have got the photo of the blood-splattered awning.  We have reports of people that were adjacent to this room.  They heard screaming.  The guy heard a thud.  Then he said he heard people.  It sounded like they were cleaning up a room afterwards, possibly cleaning up the crime scene.  If you are in charge of this investigation, if you are with the FBI, if you have the authority to go in on that ship, what in the world do you do, now that this awning has been bleached, now that the fingerprints have been cleaned up?  Is this a cold-case file?  Is it all over? 

DELONG:  No, no, not at all. 

The first person I would want to interview is the wife.  We understand from your interview last night that they were seen, husband and wife were seeing arguing in one of the ship‘s bars, and that, if I understood your—your person right, that she was seen giving her husband a knee to the groin.  A little trouble in paradise there, I‘d say. 


DELONG:  So, I would definitely want to interview her.   And she says she slept through the whole thing.  Gosh, I woke up in the morning, and my husband was gone, which is contradictory to all these other people being awakened by what seemed to have been going on in that room.  So, there‘s a lot of people to interview.


SHERMAN:  ... how reliable—but, Candice, how reliable are the reports at a Fourth of July party or something that she gave him a knee to the groin?  And isn‘t it a—it runs to a stretch to go from a knee to the groin to throwing your husband overboard? 

DELONG:  Sure.

FILAN:  Yes, but what about the morning?  She wakes up and doesn‘t realize that he is gone on her honeymoon?  She just goes off to go exercising?  What‘s up with that?  And I am curious about, what‘s his life insurance policy? 



DELONG:  And I want to know who in the world cleaned up that crime scene? 

SHERMAN:  Yes.  

DELONG:  It had to be more than one person involved.  A tarp over a boat like that, that‘s not easy to remove and get rid of.  And why did they do that?  How many other people saw it?  I think there‘s a lot that needs to be done and a lot that can be done. 

SCARBOROUGH:  There are a—there are a lot of questions.  You are exactly right, Candice. 

Thanks so much for being with us, Candice DeLong, Mickey Sherman, and Susan Filan, and also Danny Coulson.  We are going to be coming back to this story, obviously, in the next—next few days.  Thanks for being with us. 

That‘s remarkable, isn‘t it?  Again, I think, right now, the biggest problem that I have seen, obviously, with this woman is, she says, again, like Candice just told us, she didn‘t even know that her husband was missing.  She slept through everything.  And yet, you have got people two stories down, two stories down, who said they were awakened by a scream in the early morning of July the 5th.  Trouble in paradise. 

Coming up, remember the movie “Dave”?  I once caught a fish this big.  Well, these guys really did.  And then they were robbed.  We will tell you how six minutes kept them from taking home a trophy and a couple hundred thousand dollars. 

And looking live at Aruba.  We are going to be going back for the latest search on what‘s happening coming up. 


SCARBOROUGH:  You are looking at home video of a nearly 1,-200-pound tiger shark being reeled in at the 19th annual Oak Bluffs Monster Shark Tournament.  But those that reeled the shark in didn‘t win.  Why?  Well, we will let you tell them. 

With us now is are boat captain, the angler who reeled in the big guy, and mate, Damon Sacco and Ivo Allen. 

Let‘s start by—let me ask you, Damon, what happened?  How long did it take you to reel this monster in? 

DAMON SACCO, PILOTED BOAT THAT CAUGHT SHARK:  Well, actually, I am the captain of the vessel.  Ivo reeled the fish in.  And it was a little over two hours, about two hours and 10 minutes. 

SCARBOROUGH:  And, Ivo, talk about it, man.  How does one reel in a 1,200-pound shark? 

IVO ALLEN, REELED IN SHARK:  It was an unbelievable experience.  When the fish had—I was strapped into a harness, had the rod strapped onto me.  And it was a fight of inches, give-and-take, for two hours.  It was an unbelievable experience. 

SCARBOROUGH:  Ever worried about being taken overboard? 

ALLEN:  Absolutely, a few times. 

SCARBOROUGH:  Now, what did—what kind of bait does one use to pull in a 1,200-pound shark? 

ALLEN:  We were using a large squid, about three feet long, is what we were using. 

SCARBOROUGH:  Now, I understand you guys—Damon, you guys were six minutes late to the weigh-in?

SACCO:  That‘s...


SCARBOROUGH:  How much did that cost you, that six minutes? 

SACCO:  How much did that cost, in money or in sleep? 

SCARBOROUGH:  In money. 


SCARBOROUGH:  Money.  We will figure out.  You guys still haven‘t slept.  How much money did it cost you? 


SACCO:  I think, overall, between, you know, cash and prizes, it was close to $200,000 lost by the boat, by all of us involved.  You know, I had a charter, Ivo being one of the members of the charter.  And...


SACCO:  It was, yes, a significant amount of money. 

SCARBOROUGH:  That‘s remarkable. 

Ivo, don‘t you think you should just quit, quit right now?  I mean, it‘s never going to get any bigger or better than this, is it? 

ALLEN:  No, I mean, but—but, you know, we achieved what we set out to do.  You know, we wanted to go out and win the tournament.  Everyone we have talked to said that we won it.  You know, we had the biggest fish. 

Our fish came in 800 pounds larger than the fish that won.  So, we really -in our minds, we won the tournament.  We have bragging rights.  The money would be nice, though. 



Hey, Ivo, Damon, thanks a lot for being with us.  It is a remarkable story. 

We‘ll be right back in a second, show you some shocking video when SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY returns.


SCARBOROUGH:  You are looking at a stunning video clip of a Boston Red Sox game where the pitcher was beaned with a ball right in the head coming back to him.  We will give you his condition.  He‘s in the hospital tonight.  We will give you his condition when SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY returns. 


SCARBOROUGH:  And, finally, tonight, watch what happened earlier this evening in St. Petersburg, Florida.

Boston Red Sox pitcher Matt Clement takes a scorching line drive to the head after Tampa‘s Carl Crawford.  Clement was literally knocked off his feet and he stayed motionless on the mound for nearly five minutes, while concerned teammates and trainers came to his aid. 

Miraculously, the Red Sox say Clement never lost consciousness and was alert as he was taken off the field in a stretcher.  According to a Red Sox spokesperson, a CAT scan was negative, but he will stay in the hospital for observation. 

Of course, our thoughts and prayers go out to Clement and the entire world champion Red Sox organization. 

You are looking right now at a shot in Aruba.  This is where they are draining a pond near where Natalee Holloway was last seen.  Authorities tell SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY they expect it‘s going to take 15 hours to drain.  They will be done at 12:30 tomorrow.  We will give you the—all the information on the continuing search for Natalee Holloway tomorrow night in SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY. 



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