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'Scarborough Country' for August 22

Read the transcript to the Monday show

Guest: Adriana Gardella, Bill Majeski, Choc Harris, John Walsh, Jack Burkman, Paul Reynolds

JOE SCARBOROUGH, HOST:  Tonight‘s top headline: exclusive.  SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY catches suspect Kalpoe returning to the alleged scene of the crime.  Our SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY cameras are rolling at Carlos ‘n Charlie‘s, where Natalee Holloway was last seen, when Kalpoe shows up.  He shows up.  We bust him. 

Also tonight, who is the mysterious late night jogger?  And will what he saw break Natalee‘s case wide open?  Then, John Walsh from “America‘s Most Wanted” is in SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY with tough talk on the investigation, the suspects, and what has to happen now in the search for Natalee. 

Plus, the missing American groom on his honeymoon cruise.  The big question out there, who is George Smith IV?  Tonight, we have got a SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY inside look at this young man who simply vanished. 

Welcome to SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY.  No passport required.  Only common sense allowed. 

ANNOUNCER:  From the press room, to the courtroom, to the halls of Congress, Joe Scarborough has seen it all.  Welcome to SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY.

Hey, welcome to the show.  Tonight, we‘re searching for answers in the case of missing honeymooner George Smith IV.  Is there a cover-up of what really happened on that ship?  We are going to have the very latest on our SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY investigation.

Also, college student Julie Popovich, missing from near the campus of Ohio State University.  SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY will help get information out about her case and try to help the authorities find her. 

But, first, a lot going on in Aruba, SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY exclusive caught on tape.  Our cameras are there when one of the suspects in Natalee Holloway‘s disappearance decides to head out for a little partying late Friday night.  And you are just not going to believe where the guy went.  We‘re going to show you that video and get reaction from Natalee‘s family in just a minute. 

But, first, let‘s go live to Aruba and NBC‘s Michelle Kosinski. 

Michelle, what‘s the latest down there?  Plus, we‘re hearing about information about a possible late-night jogger?  What have you got for us? 

MICHELLE KOSINSKI, NBC CORRESPONDENT:  Yes.  It just adds to the mystery of this. 

Late Friday, police put out this bulletin to local media saying that they urgently, urgently—they used that word several times—need to find this late-night jogger who was around the area of the racket club here on this island.  That‘s that same place that was drained because another witness claimed that he saw all the suspects together the night Natalee disappeared in that same area. 

Well, this jogger supposedly came to police early on himself, gave them some information, clues, in fact, that police say are very, very important to this case.  And, in fact, that‘s all they‘ll tell us.  It‘s very sensitive to the investigation right now.  But when this man came forward initially, police say he wanted to remain anonymous.  Now, for some reason that they won‘t tell us, they need to talk to him again. 

And, at this point, they‘re just hoping that he will come forward—Joe.

SCARBOROUGH:  Now, Michelle, I understand there is a possibility that women are starting to come forward with—about stories of Joran.  What can you tell us about that? 

KOSINSKI:  Well, yes.  We‘ve been hearing rumors about other young women out there for weeks.  Supposedly, they have talked to police.  But police won‘t tell us anything about this. 

Well, now this private investigator who has been working on this island for weeks says that he has tracked down one of these young ladies through her attorney.  And her attorney says that this young woman claims - and she‘s 17 years old—that she was drugged and that she had unwanted sexual contact of some kind with Joran Van Der Sloot. 

Furthermore, she claims through her attorney that two of her classmates had a similar experience.  And the private investigator sat down with his attorney, talked to her at length about this 17-year-old girl.  And he says that she is now willing to go to prosecutors and try to press charges against Van Der Sloot. 

But keep in mind, we haven‘t been able to talk to any of these young ladies who had these allegations now that might help this case if they are proven to be true. 

SCARBOROUGH:  And, Michelle, I understand this weekend that Natalee‘s mom went to visit a high-ranking official in Aruba.  Tell us about that. 

KOSINSKI:  Yes, the time is drawing down, less than two weeks now before the time that Joran Van Der Sloot could be released from jail.  So now Natalee‘s mother has not been shy about trying to push this case forward any way she can.  She set up herself this special meeting with the Aruban prime minister over the weekend.

She wanted to get his advice on how to pressure the investigation, how to gain more access from both investigators and prosecutors and also get his continued support in moving this case.  And, in fact, he‘s agreed with her in the past that things happened early on in this investigation.  Then, you know, people dropped the ball, that things should have been handled differently. 

But, in return, he asked her to be more gentle in her speech, not to criticize the justice system so much, because, right now, everything is riding on how this system goes at this point. 

SCARBOROUGH:  No doubt about it.  NBC‘s Michelle Kosinski, thanks so much for that report.  Stay with us. 

Now, I want to show you our exclusive video from this weekend in Aruba.  This is suspect Deepak Kalpoe out late Friday night.  And where is he?  Well, he‘s at the front door of Carlos ‘n Charlie‘s, the last place Natalee Holloway was seen alive, before she got into a car with Deepak and his brother and Joran Van Der Sloot. 

Now, you can see him duck out of sight as soon as he sees our camera. 

Unbelievable development. 

Let me bring in right now Clint Van Zandt.  He‘s an MSNBC analyst, former FBI profiler, who obviously just returned from Aruba, where he had an exclusive sit-down with Deepak. 

Clint, I have got to ask you, what do you think about the fact that after this guy talks to you, a few hours later, he gets in his car and he goes back to a place that a lot of people consider to be the scene of the crime?  Good judgment on his part? 

CLINT VAN ZANDT, MSNBC ANALYST:  I don‘t think so, Joe. 

Again, you know, this is a 21-year-old kid who is caught in a time warp right now.  There is not a lot going on, on that island for somebody his age, unless he goes down to a place like that.  But bottom line is, I think, were I he, I would stay away until this whole thing got resolved.  So, to show up there again, it shows bad judgment, as far as I‘m concerned. 

I think that‘s a place he should just stay away from for a while. 

SCARBOROUGH:  Extraordinarily bad judgment.  Obviously, he knows it‘s hot enough.  And, again, you look at the picture.  He sees us, he ducks out of the way.  You sit here wondering if this guy has anybody talking to him, advising him on how to act and what he should do on

I want to ask you, you‘ve had some time to digest your exclusive interview with Deepak.  You got to talk to this guy more than anybody else outside of the Aruban authorities, the investigators on the island there. 


SCARBOROUGH:  Tell me, in retrospect, what do you take away from that meeting from him? 

VAN ZANDT:  Well, you know, Joe, you run into a lot of people in life, probably to include myself, who wish we had take-backs, wish we could take something back in life, something you said, something you did. 

He impresses me as somebody who would really like to have one take-back.  It‘s not as much he said.  It‘s just, you know, when you kind of look at the guy‘s face, that it‘s just, you see a combination of fear and disconcern.  And he doesn‘t know where his life is going.  He doesn‘t know what‘s going on. 

And, again, this is not—no matter what he may have done, this is still not Dennis Rader.  This is not BTK.  This is a 21-year-old kid who may, who may have made a very serious mistake, either on his own, with his brother, or with the primary suspect, who, as you suggest, there is more and more information. 

When I was in Aruba last week, and I knew these stories were coming out about Joran Van Der Sloot and about allegations concerning him and other women.  But, you know, from my point as an FBI, a former FBI agent, I don‘t want to hurt the locals‘ case.  I didn‘t want to—I didn‘t want them to say, hey, it‘s the media, who broke this story. 

SCARBOROUGH:  OK.  Let me stop you there.  Are you telling me, Clint, that you had information that authorities down there are hot on Joran‘s trail because other women are coming forward saying that he may have drugged them and then had unwanted sex with them? 

VAN ZANDT:  I was aware that those allegations were out there and that they‘re coming from women from multiple countries, different nationalities, Joe.


VAN ZANDT:  And now it‘s—we keep saying give the police a chance to put their own case together.  Well, somehow that information is—was released down there and is going to be published in the local paper tomorrow. 

I hope this is the incentive that you‘ve asked for, that Beth Twitty has asked for, that other women, if they‘ve been a victim of anyone involved in this case or anybody else down there, now‘s the time to stand up and say, I won‘t be silent.  I won‘t see other women become victims also. 

SCARBOROUGH:  So, Clint, you—and you did tell us and other people told us that people on the inside of this investigation were looking at this Dutch kid as possibly being a sexual predator. 

If that in fact is revealed tomorrow, do they believe, as you said last week, that the way to solve this case may not be on the beaches of Aruba, but in the United States, in Europe, in other countries where young women have gone down there and been victimized by this guy? 

VAN ZANDT:  I think that‘s going to help, Joe. 

Right now, as you well know, we still don‘t have a victim.  We‘ve got a missing person in Natalee‘s case.  But we don‘t have a victim.  We don‘t have a crime scene.  We don‘t have linking physical evidence.  We have statements by Joran himself that he took inappropriate liberties.  But nobody can say that he or the two Kalpoe brothers did anything up to and including murder right now. 

But if there are other crimes that he or others are guilty of, if other women have been victims, these are the things the authorities need to know about and start building a case, not only concerning Natalee, but concerning other women who may have been victimized who have decided, no more.  Nobody else is going to be a victim of anyone like this. 

SCARBOROUGH:  And, more importantly, you can keep him in jail past September the 4th and continue to build your case against Natalee. 

Stay with us, Clint.  I want to bring in right now a member of Natalee‘s family and ask how he‘s reacting to word that Deepak Kalpoe is having nights out on the town at Carlos ‘n Charlie‘s.  Let‘s bring in Natalee‘s uncle, Paul Reynolds. 

Paul, we‘ve shown the video.  I want to show you the video again.  What do you think of this kid going back to the scene of the crime, the alleged scene of the crime?  I think we all know that a crime occurred there.  But I have to still say alleged.  And going back to Carlos ‘n Charlie‘s?  Does that bother you?  Does that bother your sister.  Does that bother the entire family? 

PAUL REYNOLDS, UNCLE OF NATALEE HOLLOWAY:  Well, you know, my first thought was, here he‘s complaining because my sister visited him at the Internet cafe.  And now he‘s back at Carlos ‘n Charlie‘s, as you said, the scene of the crime, which we definitely think that it is. 

SCARBOROUGH:  And what do you think about that? 

REYNOLDS:  Well, it‘s amazing that—but this is what he‘s been doing.  This has been his life.  And we definitely think that he‘s a predator, him and Joran, the episode that we heard from the young girl that said she met him last April, the way he stalked at the club, the way Deepak and Satish sat on the sidelines, the way—I can just see the way they parked the car, so that it looks like a taxi, so they can either drug the girls or give them enough to drink, so that they aren‘t really aware they‘re getting into their car, but they think it‘s a taxi. 

SCARBOROUGH:  And, of course, that‘s exactly what your sister said she thought the setup was. 

Have you talked to your sister or anybody else in the family about the fact that Deepak is going back to his old familiar haunt, where your loved one was last seen? 

REYNOLDS:  I have.  And she was just as surprised as I was.  But he does seem to be getting bad advice.  But whatever it is, he‘s just going back into his routine.  And it just amazes us that he‘s free.  With what we know about him, with what we‘ve—the reports have come in, the reports that the statements that the other boys have made, we don‘t understand why he‘s free.  We don‘t understand why walking around.  And we certainly don‘t understand why he‘s back at Carlos ‘n Charlie‘s. 

SCARBOROUGH:  The guy is able to go back to Carlos ‘n Charlie‘s when his own buddy, Joran Van Der Sloot, tells police that he‘s the one that‘s responsible, Joran at least said, reportedly, for raping and killing Natalee.  And this guy is running around. 

Stay with us, because I‘m going to ask you, Paul, what you think of Clint Van Zandt‘s exclusive interview last week and more on the night Natalee disappeared.  We want you to check out what happens inside Carlos ‘n Charlie‘s.  We‘re going to have exclusive video of the last place she was last seen alive. 

And also, coming up, how is Natalee‘s family coping after so many weeks?  We are going to hear from a man who knows firsthand. 


JOHN WALSH, HOST, “AMERICA‘S MOST WANTED”:  And this mother, God bless her and the family that‘s helping her.  I tell them one thing.  Stay there until you get some answers. 


SCARBOROUGH:  John Walsh comes to SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY tonight. 

And next, the case of missing honeymooner George Smith IV.  Is there a cover-up and what happened that night on the cruise? 

SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY‘s investigation continues, that plus a lot more. 

It‘s a night and we‘re just getting started. 


SCARBOROUGH:  His disappearance has made headlines and rocked the cruise world, but who is missing American groom George Smith IV?  We go to his hometown to find out, that and a lot more coming up when SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY returns.


SCARBOROUGH:  I want you to take another look as SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY cameras capture suspect Deepak Kalpoe on his way into Carlos ‘n Charlie‘s at 1:00 a.m. in the morning on Friday. 

We are back right now with Natalee Holloway‘s uncle, Paul Reynolds, NBC‘s Michelle Kosinski and former FBI profiler and MSNBC analyst Clint Van Zandt. 

Michelle, I want to show you right now some video that we got exclusively from inside of Carlos ‘n Charlie‘s.  And it looks like a pretty rough scene there.  Can you set the stage for us here?  You have got people, I think, having vodka poured into their mouth as they‘re lined up.  We are having to blur out some faces.  It‘s a congo line where they go past and people are just pouring liquor.

I mean, is that the place people go, basically, to get smashed on the island? 

KOSINSKI:  Yes, basically. 

And what‘s interesting is, this is the season that it‘s not even that busy.  You still have cruise ships coming in all the time.  You know, people get off that boat.  They know Carlos ‘n Charlie‘s is right there off of the port.  It‘s a good time ready to happen for all kinds of people.  You see young.  You see old.  And it‘s the very young that a lot of people here and from the states have a problem with. 

I mean, you go in there some nights and you see very, very young girls.  And obviously many times, from in video and anecdotally and what people here will readily tell you, those girls don‘t have any problem getting served.  But Carlos ‘n Charlie‘s, we should say, does card at the door.  And they‘ll tell you, you know, we do check I.D.s. 

Part of the problem is, a lot of these kids have fake I.D.s.  And they will go out 1:00 or 2:00 in the morning.  The party is just getting started. 

SCARBOROUGH:  Yes.  Unfortunately, it can get out of control quickly. 

Paul, you know, Clint Van Zandt obviously talked to Deepak last week.  I just want to give you a chance right now, as a member of the family, do you have any questions for Clint about that meeting, what he took away from it? 

REYNOLDS:  Yes.  I would really like to know the initial impression. 

Just what kind of a person do you think he is? 


You know, Paul, when I looked at this guy again, you know, it wasn‘t a confrontational situation, like your sister had.  You know, realize, when I ask him if this case was going to be resolved on this September 4 court hearing, and he said, no, no, no, Beth will never let it be resolved.  I mean, that shows me he understands the tenacity of your sister and how much your family wants to resolve this. 

This is something that‘s not going to be blown away in the wind and it‘s not going to be swept under the rug.  And this guy may be counting his days one day at a time on his fingertips. 


SCARBOROUGH:  All right. 

Thanks so much, Paul Reynolds, NBC‘s Michelle Kosinski and Clint Van Zandt.  Greatly appreciate all of your help tonight. 

You‘re looking at some of the last pictures of George Smith IV and his new wife, Jennifer, aboard Royal Caribbean‘s Brilliance of the Seas cruise.  George, as you know, disappeared on morning of July the 5th.  A witness on board told us exclusively that two Royal Caribbean crew members were at Smith‘s door at approximately 4:30 a.m., roughly the same time he disappeared, raising important new questions.  Is there some sort of cover-up going on? 

With me now to talk about it, we have got former prosecutor Adriana Gardella and former NYPD detective Bill Majeski and former chief of security on Carnival Cruise Lines Choc Harris.

I want to welcome all of you here. And I want to start with you, Choc.  Do you think there is a cover-up going on?  Actually, hold on.  Let‘s go actually—Mr. Majeski, what about you?

How do you think the investigation is going on?  And what‘s the key question we have to ask ourselves here about the cruise lines? 


Well, one, we hope that the FBI is conducting their normally good investigation, and they have everything under control.  And often they‘re not—they will not share information as their investigation is progressing.  So, putting that aside, in terms of the cruise line itself, clearly, their fear is some kind of liability issue concerning the death of the passenger. 

Whether or not they had a cover-up, I think what they did is, they basically did what they always do.  They shuffle it off to the nearest law enforcement authority and then go about their business.  Unfortunately, sometimes, their business is keeping a clean house.  And if, in the process of keeping a clean house, they destroy forensic evidence, well, then that -be that as it may.  But they did turn it over to the Turkish authorities.  And then eventually went over into the realm of the FBI.  So...

SCARBOROUGH:  Adriana, let me ask you the same question.  How do you think the investigation is progressing?  Is there a cover-up? 


ADRIANA GARDELLA, EDITOR, “JUSTICE”:  Well, while it‘s true that historically cruise lines have tended to cover this sort of thing up, I think we need to be careful not to jump to conclusions in this particular case. 

I don‘t think we have all the facts yet and I don‘t think there is evidence that there has been some sort of cover-up, not yet. 

SCARBOROUGH:  Let me ask you about timing, a couple timing issues.  And you can help us out.  You are obviously an expert when it comes to investigations. 

The first question I have is, why do you not send out a letter to crew members—or to passengers for four days after George Smith vanishes, which it took them that long.  Also, when we first heard that Mr. Smith disappeared, the cruise line said that they found out at 7:30 in the morning, when somebody went in and checked the room and there was blood in the room. 

And yet, we had somebody come on the show last week saying they saw two cruise members at the door at 4:30 a.m., three hours earlier.  Is that a problem for the cruise line in their timeline? 

GARDELLA:  Is that to me, Joe? 


GARDELLA:  I mean, we‘re hearing so many different stories now at this point, I think I would, again, just wait until more facts are in, until more facts are made available to us.  I don‘t think any of us know what to believe at this point. 

SCARBOROUGH:  But the goal is obviously—I mean, we‘ve got letters we can produce for you that it took them four days to ask people that were on the cruise to come forward with information.  Obviously you doesn‘t want to wait four days to gather, evidence, right?  If you have a bloody deck on day—on July 5, you want to get everybody together on July 5 and get the information as quickly as possible, correct? 

GARDELLA:  Right. 

And I‘m sure there was a lot of preparation that went into whatever they put into the letter.  So, I‘m sure that was the subject of many meetings and a lot of deliberation. 

SCARBOROUGH:  Choc, let me bring you in here.  You‘ve worked for the cruise lines.  Why the delay in sending out that letter?  Why this gap, this 4:30 a.m. gap, where crew members were at the door allegedly and they say they don‘t find out for three hours later?  Are they trying to hide something? 


LINES:  I don‘t know. 

It‘s still back to the same thing that we‘ve talked about and everybody‘s talked about.  They do not have people who know how to conduct an investigation.  It is a mandate by international maritime organizations involved that they have adequate security.  Adequate security is conducting investigations. 

And another big part of this, crew members there, you know, it‘s so simple to start taking a name of who was on duty that night, the chief of security could have that list there, turned it over to the bureau.  I think the bureau is trying its best.  But...


SCARBOROUGH:  Choc, we got very specific descriptions of these two crew members that were at the door, according to George Smith‘s next door neighbors on the cruise, at 4:30 in the morning, very specific.  Don‘t these people have to be seen—again, the same time that we have everybody saying they heard a sickening thud.  Doesn‘t that mean that these crew members should be seen as suspects? 

HARRIS:  I would—you know, if they were there at that time, I sure would want to be talking to them.  I know any investigator would want to talk to them immediately.

And they have pictures.  If they can‘t identify them, they have the crew members‘ pictures there in the crew purser‘s office or security officer, and they can show them.  I‘m sorry.  I don‘t think the cruise lines did what they needed to do.  I don‘t think they were intentionally.  But I don‘t think they know what they‘re doing. 

SCARBOROUGH:  Well, you—Choc, you give them a benefit of the doubt that I‘m not willing to give them right now.  I think they know exactly what they are doing and it‘s all a CYA operation to cover themselves from civil liability. 

HARRIS:  I agree.

SCARBOROUGH:  Adriana, Bill, Choc, as always, thanks a lot for being with us.  A lot of questions to ask and we are going to be asking them in the future.

Coming up next, a closer look at the young man at the center of this case.  Everybody—listen, everybody we‘ve talked to says George Smith IV, greatest guy.  You would love this guy.  Well, we go to his hometown to find out all about him. 

And another star trying to flee a celebrity photographer gets in a car crash.  The paparazzi spinning wildly out of control.  Is this the price of fame? 


SCARBOROUGH:  Schools starting across America and college campuses.  But at Ohio State University, the search is on for Julie Popovich.  She‘s been missing since August 11.  We will get you information on that and much more. 

But, first, here‘s the latest news that you and your family needs to know. 


SCARBOROUGH:  Another celebrity, another car crash trying to flee photographers.  Are paparazzis out of control and a real menace on the roads? 

And, later, John Walsh, out of his own tragedy, he has devoted his life to hunting down criminals.  Tonight, he‘s in SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY. 

Plus, her name is Julie Popovich.  She‘s a 20-year-old student at Ohio State.  And she‘s been missing since August 11.  Tonight, we will have her story and tell how you can help. 

Welcome back to SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY.  I‘m Joe Scarborough.  We are going to have all of those stories in a minute.

Plus, I will tell you what.  It‘s breaking loose on Capitol Hill on Iraq. 

But, first, back to the case of missing American groom George Smith IV.  Tonight, a look at his life from people who knew him best. 

MSNBC‘s Lisa Daniels in Greenwich, Connecticut, out—just outside of New York City, she‘s here to tell us all about this 26-year-old man and the community he called home. 


LISA DANIELS, NBC CORRESPONDENT (voice-over):  It is a photo from a happier time, the Greenwich High School prom, 1996, George Smith, the teen know for his good looks and easy-going style, now know as a missing person. 

Joe Darula, George‘s high school buddy, is one of the few friends speaking out about the tragedy, and that‘s because he wants answers. 

JOE DARULA, HIGH SCHOOL FRIEND OF GEORGE SMITH:  Someone knows something.  It‘s just strange how people weren‘t getting interviewed for like four or five days after, and then now everyone is coming out with—like, why didn‘t that happen right away?

DANIELS:  And so, Joe is telling the world about his friend, the man behind the mystery, hoping somebody will come forward with information. 

J. DARULA:  He‘s just a nice all-around great guy, a gentle giant, pretty much. 

DANIELS:  Joe‘s father, Bob Darula, was George‘s high school football coach. 

BOB DARULA, HIGH SCHOOL FOOTBALL COACH OF GEORGE SMITH:  He was very likable, yes.  He was warm, you know, personality, that, a little quiet sometimes, but everybody liked George, you know. 

DANIELS:  The gentle giant was a star linebacker with the Greenwich High School football team, the senior in high school with ambition.  His high school year book reads: “All men are great in their dreams.  Reality just narrows the competition.  I am better than my reputation,” ironic words coming from a man already with a stellar reputation, not to mention his family‘s. 

(on camera):  The Smith family is well known here in Greenwich.  Almost anybody you talk to knows somebody in the Smith family.  George‘s great grandfather was a Major League Baseball player who lived here in Greenwich.  And his grandfather was a local dentist. 

(voice-over):  George‘s father runs this liquor store in the center of town, one of the oldest in a town famous for its wealth and ritziness.  The plan was for George to take over his dad‘s store.  And before he left on his honeymoon, George was already working long hours there.  It was here that a chance encounter brought Joe and George back in touch.  The two had drifted since high school. 

J. DARULA:  It was kind of eerie, because I saw him like three weeks before.  I was in his liquor store.  And I was going to a graduation party, so I was buying some things.  And I just talked to him.  And he was like, we got to get together when I get back.  And I was like, yes, give me a call. 

DANIELS:  That call never happened.  The only phone call Joe got was from high school friends, and they had horrifying news. 

J. DARULA:  I could tell in their voice something was like—something was wrong, because they were, like, just call me back when you get a chance, real solemn tone they had. 

DANIELS:  For Joe, the tragedy is difficult to understand. 

J. DARULA:  He wasn‘t known as, you know, get out of control or anything.  I mean, he just never did anything wrong.  So—and that‘s why it‘s more shocking, you know, that something like this would happen. 

B. DARULA:  I couldn‘t believe it, you know?  And being a parent, I am thinking, what is the parent thinking?  His wife, you know, newly married, and what a way—what a way to have a honeymoon, to lose your husband and lose your child, you know?


DANIELS:  I have said it to you before, Joe.  People just didn‘t want to talk on camera.  They don‘t want to speak out unless the family speaks out.  And that‘s really true on Jen Hagel‘s side, too, with her friends.  But the friend you just saw wanted to speak out about George, because he wants answers.  And, hopefully, Joe, one day, he will get them. 

SCARBOROUGH:  All right, thanks so much, Lisa.  Greatly appreciate that report. 

Now, friends, let me tell you, obviously, right now, we have some late-breaking developments in Iraq.  They are moving toward approving a constitution, finalized a draft that‘s going to be voted on within the next three days.  But the president is not focusing on that right now.  The administration is not focusing on it.  They have got to be focusing on what Republican senator—that‘s right—Republican Senator Chuck Hagel said about Iraq yesterday, when he said it was turning into another Vietnam and it was time to bring our troops home. 

Here‘s Senator Hagel in his own words. 


SEN. CHUCK HAGEL ®, NEBRASKA:  Now we are locked into a bogged-down problem, not unsimilar, dissimilar to where we were in Vietnam.  The longer we stay, the more problems we‘re going to have.


SCARBOROUGH:  Here to respond to that shocking turn of events on Capitol Hill is Republican strategist Jack Burkman. 

Jack, I‘ll tell you what.  When you have Republican senators starting to compare Iraq to Vietnam, especially a guy like Hagel, I believe, who served in Vietnam, that‘s nothing but bad news for the president, is it? 

JACK BURKMAN, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST:  Joe, I will tell you, it‘s bad news for the president.  But now Chuck Hagel really boils my blood.  To compare Iraq to Vietnam, first of all, it‘s absurd and he knows it‘s absurd.  His...


SCARBOROUGH:  Wait a second, now.  Ted Kennedy—Ted Kennedy has also compared it to Vietnam.  So, you got Ted Kennedy and Chuck Hagel.  I‘m sorry.  I couldn‘t do that with a straight face. 


SCARBOROUGH:  What‘s going through Chuck Hagel‘s mind here?  He sounds like Ted Kennedy.


BURKMAN:  It shows you the company into which Senator Hagel has fallen and found himself now on the intellectual level at which he is at. 

I will tell you, first of all, 51,000 dead in Vietnam, a completely different war, probably four times the cost if you look at the GDP now and then, totally different conflicts.


SCARBOROUGH:  Jack, what is Chuck Hagel up to?  Why is he doing this?  He‘s got to know, he‘s got to know that, when he says that about Iraq, what our men and women are doing over in Iraq, and everyone I talk to tells me that they‘re proud of what they‘re doing, that they‘re on their way to making this a success, that it‘s going to be a success in two years. 


SCARBOROUGH:  And yet, Hagel steps forward, compares it to Iraq.  Let me ask you, Jack, who is Hagel helping when he calls this another Vietnam?  Who is he helping here? 

BURKMAN:  He‘s helping the insurgents.  What he‘s doing is selling out our troops, undercutting their morale undercutting the war and undercutting the president.  For what?  For airtime.  He...


SCARBOROUGH:  That‘s a strong charge, Jack.  How can you say that he‘s helping the insurgents? 


BURKMAN:  Joe, he‘s made a career of this.  He‘s made a whole career of this. 

His political ideology is to be above the fold in “The New York Times”, and he will sell out—I knew he would sell out the president.  That doesn‘t shock me.  But when you start selling out our fighting men and women in Iraq for the purpose of getting yourself 15 minutes on ABC News, who—you know, Stephanopoulos is sitting over there.

SCARBOROUGH:  So, wait a second.

Are you saying, Jack, that he‘s so cynical that he would, in your own words, sell out U.S. troops simply so he could play this down-the-middle moderate that would get good play in “The New York Times”? 

BURKMAN:  Oh, without question, without question.  If anything, that‘s an understatement.  I think he would sell out that and more. 

SCARBOROUGH:  Is he running for president? 

BURKMAN:  I think he is. 

I certainly will work to defeat him.  I know most conservatives will work to defeat him.  I don‘t think he will have any—you know, there is this sense out there, Joe, that just because somebody is a Vietnam veteran, he thinks that he can distort the truth and distort facts and make any comparison he wants.  He can‘t.  He can‘t do that. 

SCARBOROUGH:  Well, Jack Burkman, let me tell you something.  Even though this is an opinion show, from time to time, I try to stay above the fray.

But I‘m with you.  If this guy runs for president of the United States and I have not written a check to a national candidate since I have had my TV show.  I don‘t think it‘s right.  But I‘m telling you right now, if Chuck Hagel or anybody that says anything that undercuts our troops as much as he did yesterday runs for president of the United States, I will do everything I can to try to defeat him.  I would vote for Hillary Clinton before I voted for Chuck Hagel, because you know what?  Hillary Clinton has never compared Iraq to Vietnam. 

He‘s a disgrace.  And he needs to go back home, because we don‘t need his type in Washington, D.C.

Jack, do you have any final words to say?  Because I have got—I feel a lot better. 

BURKMAN:  Joe, I do as well.  I‘m just shocked and...


SCARBOROUGH:  It was a rhetorical question, Jack, a rhetorical question.


SCARBOROUGH:  I‘m telling you, I‘m angry.  I‘m—you know what?  I‘m going to have to go.  I‘m going to go hose myself down and come back for the next segment. 

Jack Burkman, thanks a lot for being with us.

BURKMAN:  Thank you, Joe, so much.

SCARBOROUGH:  But, seriously, friends, I have got to tell you this.  Seriously, friends, when somebody goes on the air like Chuck Hagel—I‘m telling you this—I‘m telling you, this is exactly why he did it.  He went on the air because he wanted to gain favor with the editorial page of “The New York Times.” 

He went on the air like that yesterday because he wanted to gain favor with other moderates.  He wanted to be above the fray.  Listen, you above be the fray on domestic issues if you want to.  But when you leave our troops out to dry, like Senator Hagel left our troops out to dry yesterday, that is shameful and he needs to step back from that comment, because he‘s dead wrong. 

We will be right back in a second. 


SCARBOROUGH:  You know, few of us can understand firsthand the pain that Beth Holloway Twitty is feeling as she searches for answers.  But our next guest can.  “America‘s Most Wanted” host John Walsh lost his own son Adam.  And Walsh since then has become a tireless campaigner to stop child predators.

I talked to him recently and I asked him about the recent surge of child predator cases and what he thought was causing them. 


WALSH:  Now that we have news channels and shows like yours that are covering these cases, I think the American public gravitate to them, because they think, hey, but for the grace of God, it could happen to me. 

But we‘re seeing more flagrant and brutal behavior by serial sexual predators than I have seen.  And I have been doing “America‘s Most Wanted” 17 years and I never seen a year like this. 

SCARBOROUGH:  You know, there has been a journalistic debate over the past several weeks over shows like this reporting on Natalee Holloway and what Ted Turner a couple of months ago called the pervert of the day, where we report on these type of stories.  And yet, for some reason, Americans want to know. 

And, obviously, you‘ve seen it over the past several years with your show, that Americans gravitate to this type of program.  But, actually, a lot of good comes out of that, doesn‘t it? 

WALSH:  Oh, absolutely, Joe.  I have been watching a lot of coverage that you‘ve done on the cruise death of George Smith and the Natalee Holloway case.  I know firsthand.  “America‘s Most Wanted” has been able to take down 851 dangerous fugitives and bring back 34 missing children because of the power of television and the partnership with the public. 

And law enforcement will be the first one to say, hey, the more publicity the better.  That‘s how we catch these guys.  I also think that there is a cautionary tale here, where we can make people aware of what used to be something that the media didn‘t talk about, the pervert next door. 

SCARBOROUGH:  Let‘s go specifically to Aruba right now.  This is a case obviously we‘ve been following a good bit across America.  What do you think happened that night?  And what do you think about the shoddy police work and does that remind you possibly of the tragedy that occurred in your own life? 

WALSH:  Absolutely.  There are so many parallels to what happened to my wife,  Reve, and I 24 years ago in Adam‘s case by the shoddy police work by the Hollywood police, the ineptness, the failure to gather evidence in the beginning, just error after error. 

And this case wouldn‘t be in the news if it wasn‘t for Beth Holloway, her family and friends from Aruba, who have been determined that they‘re not going to go home until they know what happened to Natalee.  And just the police work alone was abominable.  Letting those two brothers go, letting them out of jail is an absolute insult to the Holloway family.  That boy knows what happened that night.  These guys changed their story so much. 

I think he went home to his father and said, I‘m in big trouble.  And his father probably said, don‘t implicate me.  I don‘t want to be an accessory, but I‘ll tell you what.  If you clam up and don‘t talk to anybody, no body, no case.  And it‘s become a nightmare.  What they‘re doing now is too little, too late. 

SCARBOROUGH:  And it brings back memories for you. 

I want to ask you about how people like Beth Holloway Twitty and, quite frankly, how you and others who have lost their children deal with it.  At what point do you decide to get out of bed and go on and start your life all over again?  Do you ever get over it?  Does your wife ever get over it?  Does your family ever get over it or do you just live with that pain and that hellacious memory every single day of your life? 

WALSH:  Absolutely. 

Every time we have a celebration, Christmas, the holidays or whatever, we always think of one thing.  There should be a young man there, a young man named Adam Walsh.  And I think, what you do is, you saddle up and you do something out of anger, out of frustration.  But, in the case of Beth Holloway and so many thousands of other parents of missing children, whether the children are adult or adolescents, it‘s the not knowing, is—that‘s what kills you, Joe, the not knowing. 

I know where Adam is.  He‘s in a better place.  We got his remains and we were able to end that chapter and to go on and try to take our frustration and anger out on changing the system and doing something about it.  But the Holloways are simply asking for one thing, better police work, better cooperation from the Aruban government, because they don‘t know what happened to Natalee.  And the not knowing is what kills you. 

SCARBOROUGH:  Now you‘re actually moving and you‘re teaming up with some people on a video that‘s going to teach children what they can do to protect themselves.  Talk about that. 

WALSH:  Well, you know, first of all, I say this to all parents.  Open the lines of communication with your kids.  Talk to your kids.  Find out who‘s in their lives and give them one simple rule, that adults never need help from children.  If an adult comes up in a car and asks your child to come and help me find my lost puppy or for directions, your child is not being rude. 

Walk the other way, get away from the car and let adults get help from other adults.  And kids are so confused about who is a stranger, who is not a stranger, who is a kind-of-know adult.  This video gives some really clear direction for parents.  And I really advocate, people, sit down with your kids because it can happen to anybody. 

That little town of Coeur d‘Alene, Idaho, was devastated by a predator who came there to hunt for that little girl.  Talk to your kids.  Get the good rules, 

SCARBOROUGH:  All right, 

Thank you so much.  John Walsh, we greatly appreciate you being here.  And more importantly than that, as the father of three children, I got to tell you, I just—I thank God that you have turned a tragedy into this life mission, because you have saved so many lives that you don‘t even know about.  And that‘s—just, again, that‘s what‘s so remarkable about the mission that you‘re on.  And I hope God continues to bless you in it. 

WALSH:  Well, thank you, Joe.  I believe you‘ve got to fight back. 


SCARBOROUGH:  And he fights back every day.  And, by the way, he has teamed up with Julie Clark.  Anybody that has kids under 5 years of age, like me, understands, that‘s Julie Clark with the Baby Einstein Company.  We call it baby crack around the house, because once kids get in front of that TV set when she is on, they don‘t move. 

Well, this is an important message that they need to see firsthand. 

Now, when we come back, the streets of Hollywood, the scene of wild chases.  But it‘s not the police chasing bad guys.  It‘s stars running from the paparazzi, another accident over the weekend.  And now some say it‘s just gotten way out of hand.  Somebody is going to get killed soon. 

That story when SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY returns. 


SCARBOROUGH:  Lindsay Lohan, Reese Witherspoon and now Scarlett Johansson.

The movie star crashed into other car yesterday, after being chased for paparazzi reportedly for 45 minutes. 

With me now to talk about the increasing danger of celebrity photography is MSNBC entertainment editor Dana Kennedy.  Let me tell you something, Dana, when you start going after Ms. Johansson, that‘s when it gets very personal with me. 


SCARBOROUGH:  But, seriously, I mean, is the price of fame in Hollywood now vehicular, if not homicide, vehicular assault from paparazzi? 

DANA KENNEDY, NBC ENTERTAINMENT EDITOR:  Well, yes, it seems pretty obvious. 

You know, I—people who don‘t live in L.A. have no idea what it‘s like for these celebrities.  Now, granted, they are out there.  Many of them go to places like the Ivy, where paparazzi are known to hang out.  But, you know, Brad Pitt, Leonardo DiCaprio, all these people have been clocked at going like 60 miles an hour, trying to evade the paparazzi, who literally follow them in caravans of like 10 and 20.  I mean, it‘s really like “The French Connection,” 2005-style. 

SCARBOROUGH:  And Scarlett—Scarlett—well, you know what else it‘s like, obviously, it‘s like Princess Diana being chased to her death in Paris.  The question is, when are these people going to learn?  Is the price tag for these pictures just so high that they can‘t help themselves? 

KENNEDY:  Well, you know, Joe, just for one example, remember those incredible pictures of Angelina Jolie and Brad Pitt on the beach in Africa like a month ago?

Those pictures were sold for half-a-million dollars.  Now, they were a little bit special, but it gives you an idea of what these photographers. 

SCARBOROUGH:  Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.  Half-a-million dollars for pictures of these two in Kenya? 


KENNEDY:  Yes, yes. 

Now, that‘s one extreme, granted.  But it gives you an idea of what these pictures are going for.  And, Joe, what is really important to remember here is that, even up until last year, it was basically “People” magazine, “Us Weekly,” “National Enquirer,” “Star” magazine, the only game in town. 

Now there are all these ridiculous magazines, like “In Touch” and “Life and Style Weekly.”  I can‘t even keep track of all of them that have all sprung up in the past year, and, incredibly, are making money, so that means there‘s an incredible demand for product, which means 10 times more photographers and 10 times the more chances of accidents. 


KENNEDY:  We are showing a screen there of some of the new ones that are up there, up—even “OK,” which is a big British publication, has come to America no and is also, incredibly, making money. 

SCARBOROUGH:  Yes, they are all making a lot of money.  Their circulation is exploding.  News magazine circulation going down.  Obviously, it sounds like that‘s what Americans want. 

But, if you ask me what Hollywood stars want, did you see the movie “Paparazzi”? 

KENNEDY:  I didn‘t, actually, no.  I didn‘t.


SCARBOROUGH:  The star gets run off the road.  His family is badly injured.  And he takes revenge and kills all these members of the paparazzi, guns them down.  The question is, is that basically how Hollywood stars feel about these people that hunt them down, and, in the case of Scarlett Johansson, cause an accident? 

KENNEDY:  I think they really hate them.  Jennifer Aniston is known to call them the Ratsies. 

And she talks, for instance, about how they‘re always around.  Imagine, Joe, if every time you left your house in Florida, there were people following you.  I mean, you couldn‘t pay me to be that kind of famous. 


SCARBOROUGH:  Well, Dana, you know, they are following me, but it‘s bill collectors. 


SCARBOROUGH:  Dana Kennedy, thanks a lot for being with me. 

KENNEDY:  Thank you, Joe. 

SCARBOROUGH:  Greatly appreciate it.  All right.  Good night. 

We will be right back in a second.  Not good night to you.  We have got more coming ahead in SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY.


SCARBOROUGH:  The latest on missing college student and aspiring model Julie Popovich next in SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY.


SCARBOROUGH:  Twenty-year-old Julie Popovich has been missing since August 11.  The student and model was last seen leaving a Columbus, Ohio, bar around 1:00 a.m. with a man friends didn‘t recognize.  Now homicide detectives in Ohio have been assigned to the case. 

If you know anything at all, call Crime Stoppers at 877-645-TIPS. 

That‘s 877-645-TIPS. 

That‘s all the time we have for tonight.  Now stay tuned to my good friend and the man that I credit with ending genocide in Bosnia, Tucker Carlson.  “THE SITUATION” starts right now. 

Tucker, what time is it, baby?  What time is it?

TUCKER CARLSON, HOST, “THE SITUATION”:  It was a tough job, Joe, but someone had to do it. 



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