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'The Situation with Tucker Carlson' for Aug. 24

Read the transcript to the Wednesday show

Guests: Michael Graham, Jackie Stallone

JOE SCARBOROUGH, HOST, “SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY”:  But right now, that‘s all the time we have for tonight.  THE SITUATION with Tucker Carlson starts now.

Tucker, good evening, sir. 

TUCKER CARLSON, HOST:  Good evening, Joe Scarborough.  Water logged, but beautiful still.  Thanks.

We are live tonight with news of a popular TV actress gone missing, a live visit with radio host Michael Graham, fired this week for calling Islam a terrorist organization.  Plus, psychic Jackie Sloane stops by here to predict the future. 

But first, to break down the top stories of the day, we welcome our own clairvoyant super star, that, of course, Air America Radio‘s Rachel Maddow. 

Welcome, Rachel.

RACHEL MADDOW, AIR AMERICA RADIO HOST:  Thanks for having me, Tucker. 


CARLSON:  Clairvoyant.

MADDOW:  That‘s kind of a high boundary.  I‘ll see what I can do.

CARLSON:  Pretty smart, anyway. 

MADDOW:  All right.

CARLSON:  Well, the grieving mother turned anti-war activist Cindy Sheehan returned to Texas today to continue her stakeout of President Bush‘s Crawford ranch, who himself arrived later after spending another day in Idaho.  In a speech there to the families of Idaho National Guardsmen, the president singled out a woman named Tammy Pruett, whose husband and all four sons have served in Iraq. 

“America lives in freedom because of families like the Pruetts,” said President Bush.  He‘s right, but I also think it‘s unseemly.  I think it‘s unseemly for the president to pull out his own war mom in response to the very unseemly war mom protesting outside his ranch in Crawford. 

MADDOW:  It kind of undermines the whole argument that they‘ve been making that, you know, she doesn‘t—other military families don‘t agree with Cindy Sheehan.  He‘s been making that argument.  And I don‘t have any real responsibility to meet with her. 

Either military families have a special right to be heard about the war or they don‘t.  If you‘re going to trot out one who agrees with you, then it doesn‘t look very statesmanlike.  It doesn‘t even look like a leader if you don‘t talk to those who disagree. 

CARLSON:  That‘s right.  And they‘re all being used as props. 

Now I think Cindy Sheehan, as I pointed out last night, making these remarks wild hostile to the United States, is reprehensible for saying that.  However, that‘s right.  It‘s wrong to use these people as props. 

Why is it wrong?  Because it‘s too important.  We need to decide what to do next.  The war is not going well.  Should we pull out now?  Serious questions, not going to be answered by war moms, sorry. 

MADDOW:  And the difficult thing is that, I mean, most Americans think the war was a mistake.  And so if you want to talk about public opinion, being the way that you‘re going to justify this war, oh, because people are support it, there are people who agree with me.  That‘s a pretty short road to be driving down.  That comes to an end pretty quickly when you realize most Americans think it was a mistake. 

CARLSON:  Well, that‘s—I have to say, that‘s a very deep point, and I agree with you completely. 

MADDOW:  Yes.  I don‘t...

CARLSON:  That you either defend the war on principle and you prosecute it on principle...

MADDOW:  Right.

CARLSON:  Or you don‘t.  And if you‘re going to throw it open to the public to decide whether or not you ought to be there, that‘s a dangerous way to go.  And Bush‘s whole notion was predicated on this idea that, you know, we have a grand, strategic vision. 

MADDOW:  Also pointing out the fact he won‘t meet with people who disagree, and doesn‘t like to be around them, which makes him look weak as a leader. 

CARLSON:  None of them—none of them do.  I mean, I agree with you Bush is like that, but they‘re all that way, all those politicians.  They hate people that disagree. 

He‘s doing it so obviously, I think it‘s a dumb P.R. move, to say I‘ll trot out the warmonger who agrees with me, but the one who doesn‘t, I don‘t even meet with her.  It just makes him look like a wuss. 

CARLSON:  Every single one of them is like that.  It‘s just there‘s something about politics.  Maybe it‘s in the water. 

After setting a media firestorm yesterday, by saying the U.S. ought to assassinate Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez, evangelist Pat Robertson backed off remarks today. 

This morning, Robertson claimed he‘d been, quote, understood.  Then this afternoon, perhaps after realizing that unedited videotape rarely lies, Robertson issued a written statement, apologizing for speaking, as he put it, out of frustration. 

Earlier in the day, left-wing media watchdog Media Matters had called for ABC to pull “The 700 Club” show from the ABC Family Channel.  Yes, Pat Robertson got caught in a major fib this morning, and he also compared himself to one of the great heroes of the Second World War, Dietrich Bonhoeffer, a theologian who died trying to oust Hitler, which seemed a bit of a stretch to me. 

MADDOW:  Especially the day he gets caught lying. 

CARLSON:  He‘s not converted anyone to Christianity today.  However, just because Pat Robertson hates you doesn‘t mean you‘re not a bad guy.  And lost in all this is, again, the essential truth, Hugo Chavez is a terrible leader who‘s destroying Venezuela. 

MADDOW:  It is not lost in all this.  Because you and lots of other people on the right keep bringing up, like, “Well, Pat Robertson is wrong, but we must talk about Hugo Chavez.”

CARLSON:  I hope so.  Good.

MADDOW:  I am not going to follow Pat Robertson‘s fatwa on Hugo Chavez and start talking about him in the way that Donald Rumsfeld has.  I mean, even the State Department isn‘t going along with this. 

The idea is that Pat Robertson needs to be off TV.  And that‘s the end of this discussion. 

CARLSON:  Why?  Wait, wait. 

MADDOW:  We talk about Hugo Chavez, why aren‘t we starting with the assassination?

CARLSON:  Wait a second.  I thought we‘re all for free speech here, divergent points of view.  Diversity. 

MADDOW:  Yes, absolutely.

CARLSON:  The panoply.  The rainbow of different voices and perspectives.  And he‘s but one.  Why are we trying to squelch his point of view, unpopular as it may be? 

MADDOW:  Because of the point you have made many times, you have a First Amendment right to speak your mind.  You do not have a First Amendment right to have your own TV show. 

CARLSON:  That‘s true. 

MADDOW:  You don‘t get it.  And if you‘re talk about nuking State Department, if you‘re calling a fatwa on foreign leaders, if you pray for the death of Supreme Court justices, if you‘re Michael Graham, who you‘re about to have on the show, who calls for a holy war against Islam...

CARLSON:  He didn‘t call for a holy war.

MADDOW:  You have the show yanked.  It happens. 

CARLSON:  Well, Michael—Michael Graham can speak for himself, but I will say, Hugo Chavez and the government of Venezuela are on you are your side.  They issued a statement today saying not only should he be yanked off the air, but he should be prosecuted, thrown in prison. 

MADDOW:  I don‘t want him prosecuted, but I don‘t want ABC Family to be showing “The 700 Club” three times a day. 

CARLSON:  A lot of people watch it.  Maybe you should watch it, Rachel. 

MADDOW:  Family friendly.  Who would Jesus assassinate, Tucker?

CARLSON:  Maybe they could help you, Rachel. 

MADDOW:  Yes. 

CARLSON:  Olivia Newton-John‘s boyfriend, Patrick McDermott, is still missing eight weeks after he was last seen aboard a fishing boat off Los Angeles. 

Unlike the pure concern expressed for most missing people, speculation has flown freely among media crime experts McDermott may have faked his own death because of his financial problems.  He reportedly declared bankruptcy a couple of years ago, in difficult relationship with his ex-wife, who reportedly demanded more alimony than he could afford. 

This poor guy, who it sounds to me is likely dead. 

MADDOW:  Yes. 

CARLSON:  Has been the subject of a real smear campaign.

Yesterday on our air, last night we had some supposed crime expert, saying look in Las Vegas.  He‘s probably hanging out there.  If he‘s got a gambling problem or a money problem, he just walked off the boat. 

“New York Post” today called him a dead-beat dad.  Piling on this guy.

This is one of those examples I can just see an apology in the making.  Six months from now when his body washes ashore at Terminal Island, we‘re all going to have to go back and say, “Gee, I‘m sorry what we said about you.” 

MADDOW:  And it‘s weird because it‘s a celebrity case—vaguely it‘s a celebrity case—you can pile on the guy and make him seem like he‘s the bad guy before we even know what‘s happened to him. 

I mean, we will have to at some point know what happened to him.  There were other people on the boat.  He either came back to port or he didn‘t. 

The real issue for me, though, is how obscure a celebrity do you have to be before your boyfriend missing isn‘t a story?  I mean, I would have thought that Olivia Newton-John was that obscure, but I‘ve been proven wrong.  I mean, if Tootie from the “Facts of Life has a relative. 

CARLSON:  That‘s huge.  That‘s huge.  Anything that happens to Tootie, huge as far as I am concerned.  Richard Dawson, huge. 

MADDOW:  OK.  Where do we stop?  What‘s the obscurity line?

CARLSON:  We don‘t stop.  And I hate it when people beat up on the media. I hate it even more when the media beats up on itself.  It‘s so cringing and horrible.  But in this case, we do deserve it. 

You wonder, all the people—all the people who Richard Jewell and Gary Condit, and you wonder about Joran Van Der Sloot, frankly, not to alienate viewers.  But you wonder if, really, they‘re all guilty.  Some people aren‘t guilty. 

MADDOW:  Right.  And if you judge them in the media, all you‘re doing is entertaining people at the expense of justice. 

CARLSON:  By the way, we have update on Mindy Cohen later. 

MADDOW:  Can we just go to that now?  I‘m sorry.  I‘m not going to be able to focus. 

CARLSON:  All sorts of early ‘80 sitcom stars.  All right. 

Amsterdam is like Angelina Jolie: beautiful, but different.  Just eight and a half hours ago, they debuted on television there a reality show where a woman seeks a sperm donor for her unfertilized egg.  The show is called, “I Want Your Child and Nothing Else.” 

Viewers will literally vote on whether or not they want the program to go to series after watching tonight‘s premiere.  If it does go to series, the finale will be the woman‘s artificial insemination. 

OK.  This is when you know we are Rome.  OK?  This is Caligula‘s first orgy.  This is—you know, it took 400 years for Rome to fall after that, but the seeds were planted at that moment. 

MADDOW:  Don‘t say the seeds were planted. 

CARLSON:  I can‘t help it.  That did occur to me as the words emerged from my lips. 

MADDOW:  Brought to you by Butterball. 

CARLSON:  That‘s good.  Clever.  I mean, really, this just says everything about the deep decadence of the west.  I‘m not siding with, you know, the extremists who hate us, but I do think this is evidence that there‘s something kind of wrong. 

MADDOW:  Well, you know, I don‘t like seeing plastic surgery shows either.  Like I just don‘t.  I‘m not entertained by watching medical procedures.  Call me crazy.

But I think what‘s interesting here is that this is getting a lot of

attention, because it‘s a single woman who‘s being artificially inseminated

to raise a child on her own.  And people are being upset that it‘s actually

regardless of the depiction of the medical procedure, people are upset that it depicts an artificial insemination.  I think that‘s a little weird. 

CARLSON:  Well, it‘s not only weird.  It also—it doesn‘t take seriously something that is profound and serious by its nature, creating a new life, bringing a child into the world.  It sort of mocks it, almost. 

MADDOW:  It does mock it, but it does raise the issue of, OK, here‘s a single woman.  Is it OK if that‘s what she‘s doing?  I mean, you‘ve been speaking out against out of wedlock births.  You think it‘s a bad thing.  Do you think this woman shouldn‘t be allowed to do this?

CARLSON:  I think that out of wedlock births are great for people who want children.  I‘m sure this woman obviously—she‘s going to great expense and embarrassment, at least my point of view, to have this child.

I just don‘t think they‘re necessarily good for children.  And to bring a child into the world intentionally with only one parent seems to be, you know, starting a child out at a great disadvantage. 

There are a lot of people who are born to single parents who do great, and I know some of them, but on average, they don‘t do great.  And so it does seem like something you don‘t want to do if you can help it, no. 

MADDOW:  And this raises that issue and makes people confront that issue, too, whether we want to be—whether we want to be seeing it happen, either medically or whether we want to be participating in this woman‘s discussion.  It‘s a voyeuristic thing and reality TV has brought us to this. 

CARLSON:  How much of it are we going to see?

MADDOW:  Me personally?

CARLSON:  We‘re going to get clips from that show, play them on tomorrow‘s SITUATION.  Rachel Maddow, thank you very much. 

MADDOW:  Thanks.

CARLSON:  Still to come, “The Outsider”, Max Kellerman. 

Ready for a little word association, Max?

MAX KELLERMAN, ESPN:  Sure, what do you got?

CARLSON:  Armstrong. 

KELLERMAN:  Lance Armstrong?  Kubaiyashi, competitive eating champion, another guy covered by ESPN, who‘s not really an athlete.  Or Tiger Woods, for that matter. 

CARLSON:  Very good.  That‘s an argument.  You‘ll see more of it in just a minute on “The Outsider”. 

Plus, Michael Graham, was fired Monday by a Washington, D.C., radio station for describing Islam as a terrorist organization.  We‘ve heard from his opponents on this show.  We‘ll hear from him live next. 


CARLSON:  Still to come, controversial radio show host Michael Graham stops by live to discuss his firing.  Also, his uncensored return to the air.  Plus, details on custodian caught making crystal meth in church. 


CARLSON:  Welcome back.  We‘re about to bring you a special Free Speak segment.  A month ago tomorrow, Washington, D.C., talk radio host Michael Graham referred to Islam as a terrorist organization on his show.  He was suspended by the station, and when he refused to back down from his comments, he was fired.  That was Monday.  Michael Graham joins me now. 

Michael, thanks for coming on. 

MICHAEL GRAHAM, FIRED RADIO HOST:  Thanks for having me.  I really appreciate it. 

CARLSON:  So what does that mean, Islam, what did you mean when you described Islam as a terrorist organization?

GRAHAM:  It was the Thursday of the second London terror attack, remember they hit, then two weeks later, they hit again.  Just that week, two news stories had come out. 

One, a group of moderate British Muslim clerics declared that they couldn‘t say murder bombing was always wrong.  It depended, they had.  Why are you doing it?  It could be OK with Islam. 

The second story was a poll of British Muslims, second and third generation citizens, who said among other things, 27 percent of them would not inform authorities if they knew about a planned terrorist attack. 

I looked at all that, and I said, look, you‘ve got a theology that feeds terror.  You have a structure, an organizational structure that allows a terrorist to operate with impunity, without being removed.  And you have tens of millions of Muslims who tell pollsters again and again that they support terrorism.  What you have, sadly, tragically is a terrorist organization. 

We talked about that on that Thursday.  We talked about it again on my show the next day, Friday, again on Monday, on Tuesday, my whole show, three hours about that topic.  ABC Radio management had no problems, until the Council on American Islamic Relations got involved, and suddenly my words that were innocuous on Thursday were unforgivable a week later. 

CARLSON:  Well, now are you certain ABC Radio heard what you said before the Muslim organization complained?

GRAHAM:  I guess—I guess it‘s possible I could have been broadcasting to hundreds of thousands of people inside a building with my management and they had no idea what was going on.  That somehow seems dubious since I was having a meeting every day with my program director after my show. 

CARLSON:  Now, ABC radio has said that CARE, the Islamic group that complained and agitated for your firing, had nothing at all to do with your dismissal. 

GRAHAM:  Well, I can‘t read people‘s mind.  That‘s all I can tell you.  For four days in a row, management had no problem with what I said.  They supported me.  They told me to go out and talk about it. 

And when CARE got involved, CARE said, “We want him punished.”  I was suspended.  CARE said, “That‘s not good enough.  We want him fired.”  I was fired.  I‘m not Sherlock Holmes, but I think I can connect these dots. 

CARLSON:  That‘s a pretty horrifying precedent, a news organization in my view, a news organization allowing a special interest group to dictate what it puts on the air.  I read your comments in context, and I frankly can‘t find the card or I‘d read them aloud on the air.  But you did say about four times in there that you were sad to report the state of modern Islam.  It was not so much that as a nation.  Were you surprised it was considered a big deal, your comments?

GRAHAM:  Well, particularly after we had this conversation for almost a week, and it was a great conversation.  And in fact, before I was suspended, I had Ibrahim Cooper from CARE on the show to debate the idea.  And that‘s the whole point. 

How does silencing me and my genuine concerns about how we‘re going to transform the Middle East and the violence that‘s been coming out there for four years, how does silencing me solve that problem?  How does silencing me stop a single terrorist attack?  How does silencing me help the majority of Muslims who oppose violence, who have the difficult job of reclaiming and reforming their religion?  It doesn‘t. 

The only winners in this, ABC Radio weenies who can go to bed at night going, “At least no one‘s going to call me a bigot,” and the folks at CARE. 

CARLSON:  Here‘s my one significant problem with what you said.  The term “organization.”  Islam is such a diffuse religion.  There‘s no pope.  There‘s no figure even approaching a pope.  It‘s a very fractured religion.  There are a ton of Muslims, a billion, apparently.  So it‘s sort of hard to think of it as a cohesive group, much less an organization. 

GRAHAM:  But see, this is my point, because I love this.  For example, the imam Bakri, I think is his name, in London right now, still agitating for violence. 

And people, of course, keep asking the other Muslims, why don‘t you just throw this guy out?  He‘s a kook.  He‘s a loon.  Well, we can‘t.  That‘s not an answer.  That‘s not a solution.  That‘s an excuse. 

Maybe you need to change the rules.  Maybe you need to do what other major religions have done, Catholicism, Christianity, Reformation, et cetera, and have a Diet of worms, a Treaty of Ghent, a “My Dinner with Morrie‘s” but something where you change the rules so if I stand up and say, “I‘m going to kill people in your name,” you‘ll do something about it. 

And the reason I said Islam is a terrorist organization, and put the burden on the nonviolent Muslims is I want them to feel the pressure from me, a fellow citizen, a fellow American. 

I live in Falls Church, Virginia.  A guy was just sentenced to life in prison for his terror activities at a mosque less than five minutes from my house, where he regularly preached violence against me and my fellow Americans.  Not a single one of my Muslim neighbors turned him in or called the authorities.  That‘s a problem. 

CARLSON:  Yes.  I have noticed that.  And I think a lot of people agree with you, Michael Graham, since, in the end, after you were canned, you got a job in about five minutes.  Tell me, finally, where can people hear you now?

GRAHAM: in a conservative Internet radio deal.  I‘m on Monday through Friday, starting this Monday at noon, and special set, KFI, number one talk station in America, Friday night.  But still not a permanent gig.  I‘m still looking. 

A lot of people have asked this question, “Michael, if I hire you, what is CARE going to do?”  And that‘s the lingering bad news out of this story, is the fear now that is in every talk host pundit‘s mind, what happens after a week of a great conversation, if some special interest group suddenly declares me a bigot, and I‘m ordered, you have to go out and declare yourself a bigot, too. 

CARLSON:  Well, you ought to come here to MSNBC.  We‘ve got tougher management than that.  Michael Graham. 

GRAHAM:  Well, you know, Tucker, thanks.

CARLSON:  Thanks for joining us.  Appreciate it. 

GRAHAM:  My pleasure.  Thank you, Tucker.

CARLSON:  Ahead on THE SITUATION, will President Bush ever meet face to face with anti-war activist mom, Cindy Sheehan?   Break out the crystal ball and ask renowned psychic, Jackie Stallone, in just a minute. 

Also, have you ever imagined entering your vehicle and blowing into the seat belt?  Probably not.  What automobile company experimenting with this new way to keep drunk drivers from driving.  The answer when THE SITUATION returns.


CARLSON:  Welcome back. 

It‘s 12:23 p.m. in Tokyo.  The Nikei average is off slightly on high oil prices, whatever that means, and it‘s time to greet “The Outsider”, who is to news like the British art of toothpaste.  Overexposure, rarely a problem. 

Like an English man in smiling contest, he arrives each night undaunted, my devil‘s advocate on a series of news stories.  ESPN Radio, HBO Boxing, a man with no middle name, Max Kellerman. 

KELLERMAN:  And that‘s true.  I don‘t have a middle name, and Max isn‘t short for anything either.  How do you like that?

CARLSON:  I like it. 

Well, a warning to our countless viewers who love competitive bicycling.  Brace yourself. 

On Wednesday, the director of the Tour De France, Jean Marie Leblanc, said it was, quote, “a proven scientific fact” that seven-time Tour champion and American icon, Lance Armstrong, used performance enhancing blood doping during his first victory tour in 1999.

The comment was a response to doping accusations in the French paper, “Le Quip (ph).”  On conference call today, Armstrong called the accusations, quote, “preposterous.” 

Hey, here‘s what‘s going on, Max.  The French are annoyed by Armstrong‘s work ethic.  Jean Marie Leblanc, right, the head of Tour has complained on previous occasions that Armstrong‘s training, quote, took some of the European style romance out of the tour. 

In other words, because he didn‘t show up with a red wine hangover every morning, he was cheating.  They hated him because he worked too hard.  That‘s their problem. 

KELLERMAN:  Well, that sort of does take the fun out of it.  Remember, Ron Lenville did it to McEnroe.  The European.  The American was kind of showing up, playboy style, and care-free attitude, and got played off the court basically by Europeans with these stringent training regimens. 

But in this case, so many top athletes have been accused, and it‘s pretty obvious who‘s on the stuff and who‘s not.  This is not the first time Lance Armstrong has been accused of it.  And you know, the fact that it‘s a French guy bringing it up, does it make me happy?  No.  But. 

CARLSON:  The urine sample in question, and I hate to get to the level of urine samples, but those are the terms we‘re dealing with here. 


CARLSON:  Is from 1999, we have no idea where it was stored, how it was stored, if it was contaminated, if it‘s even Mr. Armstrong‘s urine, sorry to be vulgar.  But it‘s an open question.

This is clearly a case, and I defend the frogs at every turn, as you know.  But this is a case of envy.  This is a country with a 35-hour work week.  This is a country where you‘re not allowed to work overtime.  You‘re not allowed.  You‘ve got to go on vacation.  And they‘re annoyed because Lance Armstrong is a hard worker.  He‘s got that American work ethic.  They hate him for it.

KELLERMAN:  That‘s all they have, is the Tour De France.  We‘ve got—look, we have baseball, football, basketball.  Our worst athletes, the athletes that we have who fail at other real sports fall down to cycling and things like that.  This is all they have.  Basically, you‘ve got soccer and cycling over there.  Let them have it.  Just keep our guys out of it.  It‘s not fair. 

CARLSON:  You‘re a compassionate man, Max Kellerman.  All right. 

Let‘s see what you think of this one.  Volvos, they‘re safe, at least that‘s reputation of Swedish foreign lefty wagons.  Tonight, Ford, which owns Volvo, for those of you keeping score at home, reportedly examining the possibility of building breathalyzers into Volvo‘s seat belts.  That would prevent ignition if the driver proved to be over the legal blood alcohol limit.

That limit, by the way, is .08 in the U.S., but it‘s just .02 in Sweden. 

OK.  This is a bad idea on so many levels.  One, it‘s anti-freedom.  OK?  You ought to be able to make these decisions yourself without some annoying machine, that‘s like the equivalent of beeping seat belt. 

But more important, this is dangerous.  Let‘s say you‘re at a party, Max.


CARLSON:  OK?  One of your friends falls over with an aneurism or a heart attack.  He needs medical attention, quick.  You hop into the car.  You‘ve had three beers.  You‘re fine to drive.  You blow into the seat belt.  The car won‘t start.  Your friend dies. 

KELLERMAN:  Why are you trying to drive?

CARLSON:  Because you‘ve got to him to the hospital before he expires. 

KELLERMAN:  But you‘re risking injury to other people on the road, and death, you know, the families and other motorists on the road, even if your friend‘s having an aneurism.  I think those aneurisms, those three aneurisms a year are going to be outweighed by the tens of thousands of drunk driving accidents. 

Look, we have—we have a genuine disagreement here.  We have plenty of mechanisms in cars that—that will stop bad judgment from happening.  For instance, you can‘t—you can‘t start your ignition if your foot is on the accelerator, right?

Well, alcohol impairs your judgment.  And so this is making sure—and that‘s one of those dangerous things about drunk driving.  Your judgment is impaired to begin with.  Maybe you wouldn‘t normally drive drunk, but you know what?  You‘re drunk.  You‘re not making good decisions.  This saves you. 

CARLSON:  That‘s a good point.  But I also think you ought to be able to start your car when you put the foot on the accelerator.  And I think you should also be able to put it in reverse, or “R” for racing, as they say, while going forward at a high speed.  Just my preference. 

All right.  Fast food appeals to people without much money and to people who otherwise have to eat lousy food.  Like for instance, school kids. 

According to a new study at Harvard University‘s School of Public Health, fast food spots have sprung up in clusters near schools in Chicago.  The study expresses concern that the trend is widespread, that it contributes to childhood fatness.  The study goes on to suggest that policy-makers look into solutions.  Meaning, of course, new regulations on Wendy‘s and McDonald‘s. 

This is the most ridiculous thing I‘ve ever heard, ever, ever.  Kids are fat because they stay in all day watching MTV and playing video games, not because they‘re eating McDonald‘s.  Because they‘re never outside.  They‘re sitting attached to some box like a moron.  Right?  That makes you fat, not Big Macs.

KELLERMAN:  No, Big Macs also make you fat.  In fact, I found that if you eat McDonald‘s once a week, which I‘ve done on my life because I‘ve been on the road, you will start to notice, you get a little bit out of shape.

But I‘m not against fat food in general.  I think the vast majority of people who ever lived on planet Earth would have done better, would have lived longer, healthier lives had they just ate, you know, at McDonald‘s, and they‘d have more protein, more carbohydrates. 

People are criticizing fast food because there are too many calories.  I mean, this country is so great and so wealthy that usually obesity is a sign of poverty. 

However, since we do have healthier—healthier alternatives, the question is not whether they should be allowed to be across the street from schools.  The question is whether they should be across the street from schools.  The answer is probably not. 

CARLSON:  That‘s where you‘re wrong, because America is not a country in which we debate whether things should be this way or that way.  We debate whether they‘re allowed to be this way or that way. 

This study refers to Wendy‘s, McDonald‘s, and Burger King, as quote, purveyors of fast food, like they‘re heroin addicts.  You will see a movement to restrict through zoning where fast food restaurants can be. 

KELLERMAN:  Well, first of all, have you ever seen a kid jonesing for McDonald‘s?  He looks kind of like a heroin addict. 

CARLSON:  OK.  Well, I‘m going to save that for Thursday night‘s “Outsider.” 

KELLERMAN:  You got it. 

CARLSON:  Max Kellerman, se you tomorrow.  Thanks. 

KELLERMAN:  Thanks, Tucker. 

CARLSON:  Stay tuned.  Still plenty more ahead on THE SITUATION. 


CARLSON (voice-over):  We‘ll foresee what‘s in the stars, with psychic Jackie Stallone. 

JACKIE STALLONE, PSYCHIC:  I haven‘t been wrong yet. 

CARLSON:  And which super hero‘s got Serbians wondering, is it a bird is it a plane?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  What do you think?

CARLSON:  Plus, the latest buzz from Madison Avenue. 

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  Are you kidding me?

CARLSON:  Why it pays to advertise. 

And, cops crack a cheeky smuggling operation wide open.  Wait until you see what they uncover.

It‘s all ahead on THE SITUATION.


CARLSON:  Welcome back.

It‘s impossible to know the future of course and most of the time not even the worse trying to guess.  Our next guest doesn‘t have to guess because she is a psychic and a channeler (ph).  Her name is Jackie Stallone.  She‘s an astrologer as well.  She also owns Rachel (ph), the dog, who is also a channeler.

Jackie and Rachel join us now to tell us about the future.  Jackie, thanks a lot for joining me.


CARLSON:  Now, I can‘t resist—I can‘t resist getting your predictions on the Cindy Sheehan situation.  She‘s camped outside in Texas waiting to see the president.  What‘s the...

STALLONE:  Oh, I‘ve got the answer.  I‘ve got the answer for Cindy.  I‘m telling you, I don‘t want to lose my ear plug, you know it dawned on me.  I know her problem but remember one thing, Tucker, every fireman, every policeman puts his life on the line every day for her, for me, for you, correct?


STALLONE:  OK.  So, these men they volunteer to go to the service but I want to solve her problem, so here‘s the answer.  It just occurred to me Arnold Schwarzenegger, the governor, lives in her neighborhood, so why not camp on his doorstep?  What do you think?

CARLSON:  She‘s probably afraid to.  Well, and speaking of fearful situations, tell me about Olivia Newton John‘s boyfriend.

STALLONE:  It fell out.

CARLSON:  It did fall out.  Can you hear me?  We‘re going to take a moment here as Jackie Stallone replaces her ear piece perhaps.

STALLONE:  I don‘t know either.

CARLSON:  The question is can she hear me even without the ear piece?

STALLONE:  Well, Tucker my ear phone fell out of my ear so you‘re going to have to wait a minute.

CARLSON:  OK, I‘ll wait just a minute.

STALLONE:  OK, this is terrible.

CARLSON:  Who did we get, shouldn‘t you have known this was coming?

STALLONE:  I mean my God anything else?  OK, what do you want to hear? 

This is for the birds.  OK, what do you want to hear Tucker.

CARLSON:  Tell me about Olivia Newton John‘s...

STALLONE:  All right, have we got Cindy Sheehan solved?

CARLSON:  Yes, yes, we got it all figured out.

STALLONE:  Dump her on Arnold‘s doorstep.

CARLSON:  You and Rachel, you can check that off your to-do list.  You got it set.

STALLONE:  OK.  OK, now what?

CARLSON:  Tell me now, tell me now about Olivia Newton John‘s boyfriend.

STALLONE:  Oh, I think that‘s beautiful.  If you knew this family, first he can‘t stand his wife.  He just deliberately set this up.  A car picked him up.  He‘s going to take a nice, long trip and when everyone gets their act together he‘ll come back.  It‘s very simple.

CARLSON:  So, you think he is going to come back to her?

STALLONE:  To her?

CARLSON:  To Olivia Newton John?

STALLONE:  He didn‘t seem like he missed her too much.  He doesn‘t stay in touch.  Do you agree?

CARLSON:  I do agree.


CARLSON:  I agree because I think he‘s likely dead but you say he‘s not.

STALLONE:  He‘s not dead.

CARLSON:  Where is he?

STALLONE:  He is floating around with somebody else.  I can assure you within a month when everyone else gets their act together (INAUDIBLE).  He‘s having a good time.  He will be back but not with these two airheads I can assure you.

CARLSON:  Well, look into your crystal ball Jackie.

STALLONE:  I did already.  I spend days looking in there why?

CARLSON:  Tell me about Tom Cruise and Katy Holmes is this for real?

STALLONE:  I‘m going to dump this on Rachel‘s lap. 


STALLONE:  I went over this with Rachel this afternoon.  Now what do you really want to know about the love affair?

CARLSON:  Rachel, just to interrupt for our viewers now tuning in, Rachel is your dog.

STALLONE:  About the love affair?


STALLONE:  Of course, Tom has been looking for the perpetual virgin if there‘s such a thing and that‘s the selling point on her that she is a virgin, like I‘m a virgin, but she‘s a virgin too.

OK, so he‘s trying to convert her to a scientologist and if she becomes a good scientologist she may last a year or so but I doubt if she will.  I think Tom basically after hearing him blast off on Brooke Shields, I think he should apply for a job in mental health departments.  He‘s the result of scientology.  I don‘t think we have enough hospitals to hold them all, what do you think?

CARLSON:  I, you know, I get everything I know from you, Jackie Stallone.

STALLONE:  Well, you‘re getting it.

CARLSON:  So, do you think...

STALLONE:  I think he‘s pretty damned sick frankly.

CARLSON:  As you and Rachel look into the future...


CARLSON: you see a marriage between Tom Cruise and Katy Holmes?

STALLONE:  It will be very short lived believe me.  I see a lot of break-ups.  I really don‘t see a marriage but if you want to call that a marriage, I think she‘ll be marrying the church or marrying the job and after she gets a good dose of him it will be bye-bye.

CARLSON:  OK, so as long as we‘re on the US Weekly track here.

STALLONE:  I think she‘s marrying the job.  I never heard of her as an actress or a model did you?

CARLSON:  No, I didn‘t but then...

STALLONE:  Neither did anyone else until they met her.

CARLSON:  I‘m not a psychic.

STALLONE:  And I think they both act like a couple of saps don‘t you?  I‘m really ashamed of them.

CARLSON:  You know, I report.  I report.  You decide, Jackie.

STALLONE:  I won‘t go to his movies anymore.

CARLSON:  What about Jennifer Anniston what‘s in her future?

STALLONE:  Well, frankly, I don‘t like her either.  I‘ll tell you why.  I think she treated her mother so shabby for so many years when she became famous.  Don‘t forget you only get one mother.  The mother was very good to her and when Jennifer had a little bit of fame as a soap star and the mother—the press always hits you up.  They hit me up about my son too.

So they want to know well what was Jennifer like going to school?  So, the mother being a nice mother said a few things and Jennifer, who wants to steal the whole show, said “You had no business talking about me” blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, “so I won‘t talk to you.”  So, she hasn‘t talked to her in eight years.  So, I think it‘s payback time.

CARLSON:  So, wait, just to back up just to clarify for a second, which son does the press hit you up about?


CARLSON:  Which one of your sons does the press always—is it Frank or Sly?

STALLONE:  Well, what do you think?  Get real.  What do you think they‘re interested in, Sylvester.  I mean does that—I don‘t need anybody to tell me that.

CARLSON:  Yes, that was my guess but again I‘m not a psychic.  Now, finally...

STALLONE:  Well, you don‘t have to be a psychic for that.  My dog could tell me that.

CARLSON:  Your dog is a psychic too as we understand.

STALLONE:  Yes, he‘s a channeler.

CARLSON:  Of course he is. 

STALLONE:  He likes you.  He said the moon‘s in Taurus tonight.  He likes Taurus.

CARLSON:  I like him too.  I am a Taurus.

STALLONE:  He‘s a Taurus.  I know you are.  Your moon‘s in Taurus too.

CARLSON:  So, tell me, Jackie, finally some of us have been waiting quite some time for bow ties to become cool again.

STALLONE:  Correct.

CARLSON:  It‘s been about 150 years.  Do you think that‘s coming anytime soon?

STALLONE:  Well, for you, I think it‘s your signature.  It‘s like Larry King has his suspenders.  I mean when you can‘t remember who‘s who on TV you say, “You remember that cute guy, yes, yes, yes, well the one with the bow tie?”  “Oh, him I remember.”  But anything else they forget who you are.  You have to have a signature.

CARLSON:  But it‘s basically me and Louis Farrakhan, the Nation of Islam.

STALLONE:  He wears a bow tie too?

CARLSON:  He does, yes he does and I think it looks pretty good.  But do you think the rest of the public will ever catch up?

STALLONE:  Do you give a damn?

CARLSON:  No, not really.

STALLONE:  As long as you like it, it‘s your signature.  People know who you are.  Does Larry King, I don‘t know if he wears them to hold his pants up he‘s so skinny or wears them for a signature, I don‘t know.  He needs both.

CARLSON:  A woman of many signatures.  Jackie Stallone and Rachel, thank you both.

STALLONE:  Oh, thank you.

CARLSON:  Coming up, Pat Robertson said some pretty unholy things about Hugo Chavez.  He calls himself a Christian but wait until you hear what a voice mailer calls him.

Plus, among the stories you‘ll be talking about tomorrow, the long awaited Wendy‘s finger in the chili trial begins.  That‘s one of the many things you‘ll see here, right here first. 

Be right back.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  Still to come, a smuggler behind bars for sticking horror movies up his behind.

VANESSA MCDONALD, SITUATION PRODUCER:  Plus, which super hero was allegedly spotted by hundreds in Serbia?

CARLSON:  All that and even more.  We‘ll be right back.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  Knock it off, bow tie.


CARLSON:  Welcome back, caught by surprise.

Time to look ahead in tomorrow‘s news right now, for that we turn to the most trusted name in news, our producer Willie Geist—Willie.

GEIST:  I had the most stress today in the news. 

Say what you will about Jackie Stallone, did she have a male dog named Rachel, sure.  Was it wearing a veil and a sequined cape, you bet.  But if you bring Frank Stallone into this world you‘re OK by me.  So, she gets a free pass from me.

CARLSON:  I‘m sitting her marinating in guilt for that last segment.

GEIST:  No, don‘t feel guilt.

CARLSON:  OK, good.

GEIST:  It was outstanding.

CARLSON:  Thank you, I‘m absolved.

GEIST:  Now to a little bit more serious issues, News of Tomorrow.

CARLSON:  Oh, yes, thank you Willie.

We start with some breaking news out of Los Angeles in the entertainment world that everybody will certainly be talking about tomorrow, hearing about anyway.  Sixteen-year-old actress Scout Taylor Compton, who starred in the movie “Sleepover” last year, has appeared on the popular television show “Gilmore Girls” has vanished from her home in southern California.  She was last seen on August 12th.  She was reported missing by her mom.

GEIST:  Police say she‘s a runaway, Tucker, but she‘s been gone for almost two weeks, so something‘s up.  I mean you don‘t want to generalize but child actors tend to have sort of complicated lives.


GEIST:  So, let‘s hope she‘s just kind of going through a phase or something.

CARLSON:  Yes, it‘s a lot.  I mean, you know, people mock child actresses or actors but it‘s a hard life.

GEIST:  And it‘s a long time to be running away, two weeks, so we‘ll keep an eye on it.

CARLSON:  Hope she‘s fine.

Well, tropical storm Katrina will bring high winds and heavy rain to south Florida tomorrow.  It‘s expected to pick up steam and become a category one hurricane before making landfall on Friday.  Meteorologists expect the storm to dump as many as 20 inches of rain on Florida by Friday night.  Hurricane watches went up in south Florida today as the storm bears down on the coastline.

GEIST:  I know people love living in Florida.  I don‘t blame them for living there but hurricane season must get so tiresome, boarding up your house once a month, rebuilding it afterwards.  I mean I guess it‘s worth it.

CARLSON:  Yes, that‘s—but, you know, honestly a lot of houses in Florida, you know, are cinderblock kind of built for this stuff.

GEIST:  That‘s true.  That‘s true.  This is no big one yet this year but this has been a very busy season.  They‘ve already had eleven named storms and we‘re only, you know, you still got three months left.

CARLSON:  Yes.  I mean I hate to sound like an 80-year-old person but I am continuously appalled by the inability of meteorologists to predict anything useful.

GEIST:  Except here, Sean McLaughlin and company.

CARLSON:  That‘s right, exactly.

GEIST:  There is one exception.

And our last story I just have to update you on that Wendy‘s finger in the chili bowl situation...


GEIST:  There‘s a hearing scheduled for tomorrow on that.  It has now been postponed, according to KNTV, postponed to September 23rd.  You remember the couple.

CARLSON:  Wait, so the Wendy‘s chili story, which we just teased coming out of the last segment...

GEIST:  Yes.

CARLSON: ...saying we‘re going to have the latest update it starts tomorrow is, in fact, not happening until next month?

GEIST:  That‘s correct.  It‘s News of Tomorrow, if by tomorrow you mean September 23rd and I do.

CARLSON:  I guess my question is can we wait that long?

GEIST:  No, we can‘t and this is such a good story.  As you‘ll recall, the couple bought a severed finger from a co-worker...


GEIST: ...planted it in a bowl of chili and then planned a huge lawsuit against Wendy‘s but the guy who the finger belonged to turned state‘s evidence and turned them in.

CARLSON:  I believe he has been a guest on this very network.

GEIST:  Yes, he has.

CARLSON:  But you know the good news there are no federal holidays in the month of September, in other words not a lot to look forward to.

GEIST:  That‘s right.

CARLSON:  That‘s right.

GEIST:  We‘ll be looking forward to the Wendy‘s chili case.

CARLSON:  Wendy‘s chili case. 

GEIST:  Yes.

CARLSON:  I literally can‘t wait—Willie Geist.

GEIST:  See you in a little bit.

CARLSON:  See you in just a minute.

Still ahead, 65 pregnant girls at the same high school in Ohio, have President Bush‘s programs promoting teen abstinence completely backfired?  One of our voice mailer‘s says so.  Hear her opinion next.


CARLSON:  Welcome back, sitting in tonight for Harry Hamlin, I‘m Tucker Carlson.

Time now for our voice mail segment where we basically let you call in, say whatever you want and then play it.  That‘s basically what we do.  Let‘s hear what you said.


LISA, PLYMOUTH, MICHIGAN:  This is Lisa.  I‘m calling from Plymouth, Michigan.  I‘m calling about Pat Robertson‘s call for the assassination of the president of Venezuela. 

Number one, he can just hold that cross and wave that flag as much as he wants.  If he‘s calling for the assassination of someone, he is not a Christian nor is he an American.


CARLSON:  Hearing you say Pat Robertson, love it.  I‘m married to a woman from Michigan.  I just love your accent.

I don‘t know if you can call him not a Christian.  I don‘t think he‘s converted a lot of people to Christianity recently though.  He‘s not been a very good ad for the religion this week anyway.

All right—next up.


LISA, SOUTH CAROLINA:  This is Lisa from South Carolina.  I understand your frustration with the president in Iraq but I think you‘re missing something here.  With us in Iraq doesn‘t mean making their government ours, exactly like ours. 

If we don‘t want the Iraqi government to be considered a puppet of the United States, then we should allow them to make their own choices.  I have confidence in the Iraqi people that they will not duplicate past mistakes.  The process is not perfect but we must finish what we started in Iraq.


CARLSON:  A couple of quick questions for you, Lisa.  What gives you any confidence at all in the Iraqi people, A?  B, what‘s wrong with a puppet government?  I mean the whole point of this was to secure our country.  I don‘t have any problem with a puppet government. 

And, three, after 1,800 Americans die, I think we have a right to have a hand in what sort of government is formed in Iraq and I hope we do have a hand, a more vigorous hand.  I hope it‘s a free government that poses no threat to us.  It doesn‘t sound like it‘s moving in that direction and I‘m upset about it—next up.


CANDY, LAS VEGAS, NEVADA:  Candy Mueller (ph) of Las Vegas on the 64 pregnant college students.  I am glad to see that the Bush administration‘s ban on the teaching of birth control and teaching of abstinence only is working—not.


CARLSON:  All right, Candy, well I‘m not for abstinence.  I think abstinence is a living hell and I‘m not in any way endorsing abstinence.  However, the one thing you can say about abstinence it doesn‘t cause pregnancy.  Abstinence did not cause those pregnancies, sorry Cindy, unless I‘m missing something—next.


ANONYMOUS:  How come every time there‘s a story on the subject of obesity the stock footage is always of these huge people but you never get to see their faces?  It‘s always them coming from the back angle or, you know, coming toward you but you never actually show anyone‘s faces.  Is it like people worried about a lawsuit because they‘re going to be outed as being obese or fat?


CARLSON:  I think Mr. Anonymous you‘ve answered your own question.  You didn‘t give your name probably for a reason.  We were actually laughing about this on the set last night, all the crew when we threw up the B-roll of the fat people, showed the headless fat people again.  We hate running that tape.  The problem is it‘s very hard to get fat people to consent to being photographed waddling down the street. 

So, if you are, we‘d love to have you on the show.  I personally think there‘s nothing wrong with being fat.  I defend fat people day in and day out.  If you‘re fat and you‘d like to be on the show, send us your home movies.  We‘ll put them on. 

We‘ll use them as B-roll next time we do a story on fast food or obesity in America or Twinkies or whatever we‘ll put you on.  So, just send us it, VHS, CD, whatever and we‘ll put it on.  We‘d love to get rid of the headless fat people on our show.

That‘s it.  Let me know what you‘re thinking.  Call 1-877-TCARLSON.  That‘s 877-822-7576.  Leave your name, your hometown and a brief semi-sane message and you might hear yourself on television.

Still ahead on THE SITUATION, college kids used to mow lawns or deliver pizza when they needed a little walking around money.  Nowadays, they‘re turning themselves into human billboards.  We‘ll spill that ink next on the Cutting Room Floor.


CARLSON:  You know what time it is.  It‘s time for the Cutting Room Floor. 

Here‘s Willie Geist.

GEIST:  Hello, Tucker.

I think tonight you locked up that elusive Emmy by talking to Jackie Stallone and doing a tease from a jail cell.  Congratulations. 

CARLSON:  It was really Jackie Stallone‘s dog that I think is going to cinch it for me.

Well, Superman seen here in his original George Reeves form, used to do most of his work in the greater Metropolis area.  It appears he‘s expanded his jurisdiction to Eastern Europe.

Hundreds of people in the Serbian town of Ljubovija claim to have seen a cloaked figure flying above their homes.  Witnesses say the man soared above their village as if he had an invisible engine on his back.

GEIST:  Interesting.  Tucker, we pride ourselves here on the Cutting Room Floor on not judging.  You saw Elvis.  You saw a UFO.  You saw the Virgin Mary in toast.  You‘re one of us.  But you didn‘t see Superman.  Don‘t abuse the privilege, you know what I‘m saying?

CARLSON:  I agree with that.  But the rest of it, if you saw it, you can tell us.  We don‘t judge you.

GEIST:  Yes.  Nope.

CARLSON:  Well, if you‘re desperate to get satellite television and you have absolutely no respect for the history of your town, the Dish Network has a deal for you.  The satellite provider is offering ten years‘ worth of free service to every household in the town that will rename itself Dish.  In exchange for the free television, the town must agree to permanently change its name to Dish on government buildings, schools, hospitals and road signs.

GEIST:  If you‘re willing to sacrifice the history of your town so you can watch every game of the NHL season, your priorities are a little bit out of whack.  How do you tell your grandkids when they‘re playing for the fighting dishes how this came about?

CARLSON:  Plus, I think there are plenty of towns in like West Virginia and Kentucky, Nevada called Dish already.

GEIST:  I wouldn‘t know.

CARLSON:  Sounds right.

Well, I‘m not expert but I‘m guessing if you‘re looking for a place to run your meth lab, the local Baptist church not the smartest spot to do it.

GEIST:  Yes.

CARLSON:  A custodian at the First Baptist Church in Peru, Indiana has been charged with felony meth manufacturing after police found materials used to make the drug inside the church, the custodian, also a member of that church or was.

GEIST:  So often, Tucker, we talk about the differences in religions but I think no matter who your God is we can all get together and agree no meth labs in God‘s house.

CARLSON:  It‘s really an ecumenical point.  I agree with that.

GEIST:  I totally agree.  Crank has no place in the church in my view.

CARLSON:  That‘s right.  Everyone from (INAUDIBLE) to Episcopalians can agree with that.

Well, smuggling porn from country to country is getting tougher and tougher, trust me.  One Malaysian man had to resort to a desperate tactic.  As you can see in this dramatic reenactment the man was crossing the border into Singapore with porn movies stashed in his under shorts when he was stopped by a menacing looking law enforcement official, seen here.  While frisking the man, police found four video DVDs hidden between his buttocks.  Singapore bans the sale and possession of pornography.

GEIST:  You know, Tucker, I just got a...

CARLSON:  That‘s what the cops look like in Singapore, by the way, just so you know.

GEIST:  You might want to visit.

Listen, I got to brag here for a second.  I‘m so proud of THE SITUATION players.  They‘re just getting better.

CARLSON:  They really are.

GEIST:  They‘ve been doing some stock in their free time and they‘re getting better.  It‘s starting to show gang.  Keep it up.

CARLSON:  (INAUDIBLE) Singapore porn reenactment right.

GEIST:  Right.

Well, Molly DeMeres (ph) of Reno, Nevada had a dream to go to culinary school in Europe, needed a little money to make it a reality, so she did what anyone else in her position would do, she shaved her head and auctioned advertising space on her scalp.  The winning bidder, paid $18,000 to have its logo tattooed on the back of her head.  As part of the deal, she must remain bald for one full year.

GEIST:  And that‘s going to look sharp at the Sorbonne this fall isn‘t it?

CARLSON:  She‘s going to be preparing our food?  I‘m concerned.

GEIST:  Yes, exactly.  Again, with this are we not getting the word out about student loans, you don‘t have to resort to this.  Let‘s get the literature out to the kids.  This is crazy.

CARLSON:  I don‘t want her making my souffl’.


CARLSON:  Willie Geist, thank you.

GEIST:  All right, Tucker.

CARLSON:  That‘s THE SITUATION for tonight.  Thanks for watching as always.



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