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'Rita Cosby Live & Direct' for Oct. 11th

Read the transcript to the Tuesday show

Guests: Ray Daudani, Jessica Payton, Marilyn Bardsley, James Backstrom, John Strohschein, Robert Davis, Joseph Bruno, Hugh Hefner, Jason Whittle, Beth Holloway Twitty, Nola Foulston

RITA COSBY, HOST:  Tonight, new witnesses are coming forward in the brutal beating of a New Orleans man, all caught on tape.  And one of the witnesses says that he was also roughed up by the cops.  We‘re going to hear their story tonight in a LIVE AND DIRECT exclusive.

Also, a new search is about to get under way in Aruba in the Natalee Holloway case.  Will it finally explain what happened to the missing teen?  And why it is only starting now?  Plus, the future of the Playboy empire.  I sit down with Hugh Hefner and his three girlfriends—yes, three girlfriends—for a revealing, interview including why Hef says America is oversexed.

But we start tonight with urgent new information in the murder of Taylor Behl.  Police are asking for your help tonight if you have seen Taylor‘s white car and certain license plates believed to have been used around the time that she disappeared.  Cops hope by getting more information that they can determine once and for all what happened to Taylor and who killed the beautiful Virginia college student.

Joining me now for details about what exactly the cops need is reporter Ray Daudani, live from our affiliate WWBT in Richmond.  Ray, tell us about the car and these license plates.

RAY DAUDANI, WWBT, RICHMOND:  Well, Rita, Richmond police really want to be able to press some charges and prosecute this case, and they think that the car may be the key.  They believe now that the car was somewhere near that Mathews County site where Taylor Behl‘s body was found just last week, and that‘s why they think—they‘re using very specific dates, between the 5th, which is the last time Taylor was seen alive, and the 17th, when her car was found just a couple miles away from her VCU dorm room, where she disappeared.

Now, it‘s a white 1997 Ford Escort that Taylor was driving around.  That‘s the car that they‘re looking for.  They figure it was somewhere in Mathews County.  And they‘re looking for three license plates.  The first one is the plates that actually were registered to that automobile.  This is another one.  These are the GRN ERTH license plates that they believe were stolen around the exact same time as Taylor‘s disappearance.  And we haven‘t really found out exactly why they think that‘s connected.

The other one, the Virginia license plates, as well, that belonged to Taylor Behl, JPC 2848.  Those were the plates that were on the car originally belonging to Taylor.  And then the third set of plates are the Ohio plates that came out, EP 34 KW.  They figure that this was actually the set of license plates that were on Taylor‘s car when the car was found just a couple of miles away from her dorm room on September 17th.

So they figure that the car was out there in Mathews County.  Now they‘re trying to figure out who was driving the car and which plates were on it when it was out there.  They figure if they can figure that out, then they‘ve got a better chance of prosecution.  They have said that their prime suspect in this is 38-year-old photographer Ben Fawley, one of the last people to see Taylor, and he remains behind bars tonight without bond.  He is charged today with another charge of being in possession of a firearm and being a convicted felon.  So they‘ve got him behind bars, but they just want to be able to have enough to wrap up this case—Rita.

COSBY:  Absolutely.  Ray, thank you very much.

And investigators appear to be closing in on 38-year-old photographer Ben Fawley, who we just talked about, who dated Taylor.  This is information coming from former girlfriends linked him to the rural site where Taylor‘s body was found.  And take a look at this.  We‘re going to show you in a second.  Fawley has recently changed his appearance.  There it is, his two different looks.

Joining me now is one of Fawley‘s ex-girlfriends, Jessica Payton. 

Jessica, do you believe Fawley is capable of murder?  And why?

JESSICA PAYTON, SUSPECT‘S EX-GIRLFRIEND:  Yes, I think it‘s possible if—you know, considering the circumstances, all the stuff coming out, definitely, you know, everything is pointing to him, and you know—so, yes.

COSBY:  What was your relationship like with Ben Fawley?  You dated him.  Was it a turbulent, tumultuous relationship?

PAYTON:  Not at first.  At first, it was, you know, fairly normal, you know, like any other relationship.  Things got worse when he got off his, you know, medication, and it just kind of, you know, fell apart from there.

COSBY:  How bad did it fall apart?

PAYTON:  Our relationship ended in a—you know, in a very bad argument, with him throwing something at me which hit me.  And I ended up pressing charges against him.

COSBY:  So you actually went to the court?


COSBY:  You went to the cops.  How did he react to that?

PAYTON:  Of course, he denied it.  He plead not guilty to that.  A friend of mine also took him to court for something else that happened that night, which—you know, he did plead guilty to that, but he was found guilty in both trials.

COSBY:  Now, I want to put up the license plates because you told one of our producers something right before the show, and I think this is very significant.  As we‘re looking tonight for these three license plates, with the report that you just heard from the reporter talking about who was maybe driving the car, you have some background on Ben Fawley stealing license plates.  Tell us about that.

PAYTON:  He not only collected license plates, but you know, he definitely knows how to steal one, if he wants it.  He, you know, stole one one time when we were in Philadelphia.  He saw one he wanted and he went and got it.

COSBY:  So he had a penchant for different license plates...


COSBY:  ... liking, and sort of particular ones, too.

PAYTON:  Yes, just, like, ones he didn‘t have.

COSBY:  Now, he has a child.  This is the first time I heard about that.  Tells about his kids, and what kind of relationship did he have with his kids?

PAYTON:  He had—he—you know, from what I could tell, he loved his kids very much.  And he has two daughters and, you know, he always tried to go out of his way to make sure, you know, that they were OK.  And he was sort of protective of them and—their—his kids live with their mother, so he doesn‘t—he didn‘t get to see them that much.

COSBY:  Well, Jessica, we appreciate your insight and for speaking out on this case as it is being investigated.  Thank you.

And another one of Ben Fawley‘s ex-girlfriends is also coming forward.  Let‘s bring in, if we could Marilyn Bardsley—she‘s the founder and also the executive editor of Court TV‘s Crime Library—who has exclusive new information about this other woman in Fawley‘s life, Erin Crabell.

Erin played a key role.  Tell us about that Marilyn.

MARILYN BARDSLEY, COURT TV‘S CRIME LIBRARY:  She was Ben Fawley‘s girlfriend before Taylor Behl.

COSBY:  And she also helped the cops, right?  Tell us about the big role she played in the investigation.

BARDSLEY:  One of the photographs that led the police to Taylor‘s remains was a place where—very close to where Erin lived, and she identified the photograph that Fawley had on the Internet of that particular site.

COSBY:  Now, she‘s communicated with you quite a bit and, you know, talked about—you know, at first, they had a very—it seemed like he was a very loving boyfriend.  I remember seeing that, you know, she said he used to laugh like Tigger, you know, one of the cartoon characters, was very funny.  But then things changed.  And I want to show a quote.  This is an e-mail that I think she sent you.  It says, “I was puzzled as things started to go downhill.  It wasn‘t that he‘d hurt me after saying that he could never.  It wasn‘t that he‘d broken into my house.  It was the look in his eyes when he hurt me.”

How did you read that, Marilyn?  That‘s pretty eerie.

BARDSLEY:  He‘s a Jekyll/Hyde.  What happens is he cons young women into thinking that he‘s a very benign person, but then when some sort of trouble comes up, then he just completely snaps.  He becomes the Jekyll.

COSBY:  Yes.  And it looks like she even believed, at one point—and maybe still does—that he could have something to do with Taylor.  I want to show another one of the e-mails.  This is again from his ex-girlfriend, sending to you.  But it‘s also quite revealing about sort of the mindset and whether he could be involved.

It says, “Maybe it was the last thing that Taylor saw.  I keep her in my dreams and seeing his eyes, as I saw them that one time, blank.  It wasn‘t like there wasn‘t anything there or that they were empty, but a big wall went up right behind his irises.  The change was that bad.”

She sounds like she was scared to death of this guy.

BARDSLEY:  Understandably.  Here‘s a guy who can‘t control his temper, who hangs around and cultivates women half his age, and then when they begin to see how damaged emotionally he is, they try to slip out of this relationship with him.  And he is so obsessed with them that he looses control and clearly gets violent with them.  There‘s a history of that.

COSBY:  Well, very creepy stuff.  Marilyn, thank you.  And thank you for sharing those e-mails with us tonight.

BARDSLEY:  You‘re welcome.

COSBY:  Now on to another story, some new developments tonight in the disturbing case of a double murder in Minnesota.  Three teenagers, now—

Matthew Niedere, Clayton Keister and Jamie Patton—you can see the pictures there—have now been charged in the death of Niedere‘s own parents.  Prosecutors say Patricia and Peter Niedere were brutally gunned down over the weekend at their shop in Hastings, Minnesota all for money.

And tonight, we have new details about the murder, plus shocking information about what the suspect claimed to do after the murders.  Joining me now is Dakota County attorney James Backstrom.  Mr. Backstrom, first of all, give us a little sense of what happened at the crime scene.  Where did it happen?  What happened to these two people?

JAMES BACKSTROM, DAKOTA COUNTY, MINN., ATTORNEY:  Well, this was a horrific crime that took place in the middle of the afternoon, about 1:45 PM last Saturday afternoon.  The city of Hastings is a town of 18,000 people right on the Mississippi River.  It‘s our county seat.  And this business was right on the main street.  It‘s one of the main highways that goes south all the way down to Redwing (ph) and to Iowa.

COSBY:  And they were shot.  I understand they—they, what, quote, tried to do, what, a dry run, the day before, or tried it at their home the night before?

BACKSTROM:  Well, these three teens, from the evidence that we‘ve uncovered, were planning to commit these murders for several weeks.  They discussed several different types of attempts on the life of one of the boy‘s parents.  They did actually proceed, two with shotguns in hand, to try go in and break into the victims‘ home on Friday evening late at night.  And they had a plunger they had to put on the glass.  They had a glass cutter.  They were going to cut a hole in the glass, get into the house.  And they were carrying shotguns at the time, and their intent was to kill Patricia and Peter Niedere.

They got scared away when the alarms went off at the home and the lights came on in the backyard.  They had an alarm system, and the police were called.  And they got scared off on that attempt.  But they didn‘t wait very long because, tragically, the next afternoon, this time, the son and one of the co-conspirators went to their place of business, one with a shotgun, one with a .22-caliber handgun.  The victims were shot multiple times with the handgun by their son.  The father was killed by the .22-caliber handgun after being shot five times.  The mother was shot once.

She ran out of the building out the front door and yelled for help, yelled to—asked the person outside to call 911.  Unfortunately, the person she asked for help was the co-conspirator.  He told her—helped her to go back inside the door, where she was shot two more times, fell to the floor.  And then, you know, the co-conspirator, Clayton Keister, was asked to come back inside with the shotgun and finish the job, which he did with a single shotgun blast to the...

COSBY:  Oh, this is horrible!

BACKSTROM:  ... Mrs. Niedere‘s head.

COSBY:  So she actually went out, begging for help, and they brought her back in and finished it off.  This is horrible!  You know what?  One of the other things I heard, Mr. Backstrom, after the killing, Matthew went to the mall, went grocery shopping, even went to a homecoming dance.  It‘s just disgusting, what these three boys did, and particularly to his own parents.  I mean, this is just shocking.

The motive—I was hearing one of the things could be money.  But also, he was arguing with his parents over church.  What, he was flirting with some of the girls at church, missed one of the church—you know, one of the sermons, and they were very angry at him for that?  What do you think drove him to do this despicable act?

BACKSTROM:  Well, it‘s hard to understand what would drive anyone to do something like this.  This was, you know, cold-blooded murder.  It‘s one of the most chilling crimes that‘s ever occurred in our community.  And it was committed by teenagers, you know, which is all the more shocking.

Matthew Niedere, you know, told the police that he‘d been having escalating arguments with his parents over the last several weeks.  They‘d gotten into a big argument about his desire to switch churches, and his parents apparently did not want him to do that.  And they had another fight over him missing a church service.

But by all accounts, these were good parents.  They were wonderful people.  They were pillars of the Hastings community and active in their church and in their civic duties around the town.  They were good parents, you know, and it‘s just really a shocking and unbelievable crime, the likes of which we have never seen in Dakota County, Minnesota.

COSBY:  Well, it‘s deplorable.  Doesn‘t matter where it happens, it is just disgusting and deplorable.  And Mr. Backstrom, thank you for giving us, unfortunately, some of the tough details there.

And as you heard, one of the things that the boy argued with his parents about was going to church.  And joining me now on the phone is Reverend John Strohschein.  He is the pastor of the church where the Niederes attend and also a close family friend.

You know, Pastor, you hear this, did you have any idea that—that church was sort of becoming a contentious, heated issue?  There‘s no reason to kill your parents, but did you realize that there were these arguments there?

REV. JOHN STROHSCHEIN, NIEDERE FAMILY PASTOR:  I had no idea that there were arguments with the church.  They usually all came together. 

Most recently, Pete was home sick one week.  I do believe—well, the last

Sunday that Pete and Patty were here—you‘re bringing new thoughts to me

he was not in church—Matt was not in church.  Usually, they were always three—all three in church.

We‘re a very small congregation, only 115 total people, so you pretty much know, you know, everybody who‘s there.  So I have a fairly—my memory‘s pretty good on that.

But I‘m very shocked to hear—I haven‘t heard a lot—what just was said by your previous person, but this argument over church, although in the local paper (ph) here in St. Paul, it said that he thought that he wasn‘t getting enough of the wrath of God and it was a comparison between two different denominations.  I won‘t mention those.  But you know, he—there was some question.  But (INAUDIBLE) you know, I, as a pastor, Lutheran Christian pastor, have known that since he was—he‘s 17 now, and I‘ve known him for 6 years.  I instructed him for two years in confirmation Bible instruction...

COSBY:  And real quick, real quick, Reverend, I just got to ask you, I understand you plan to visit him, you know, you and the congregation, you know, want to show a sign of forgiveness, is that right?

STROHSCHEIN:  Well, forgiveness, yes.  I can explain that further.  But to visit him, I—the afternoon that the incident took place, I was at the scene with the older brother, Dan, and then the chaplain, who is a fellow pastor from Hastings—and if I don‘t get to mention, we have a great clergy association in this wonderful town...

COSBY:  Yes, real quick, if you could, Reverend.

STROHSCHEIN:  He said—I said, I would like to see Matt as soon as possible.  He said, I will get you in as soon as possible.  He said, It may be some time.  We have letters from—notes from the kids.  I have a letter I want to get in.  It‘ll go through the chaplain to the sergeant, whenever that is allowed.  And my name‘s at the top of the list to see Matt, whenever the sergeant tells the chaplain that I may go in.

COSBY:  Well, Pastor, we appreciate you giving us some insight.  Of course, it‘s just, I‘m sure, heartbreaking for your church community.  We appreciate you being with us.

And everybody, still ahead, what prosecutors are doing to keep the BTK serial killer from living out his sick fantasies behind bars.  And that‘s just the beginning of what‘s ahead on tonight‘s big show.  Take a look, everybody.

Plus: new hope in the Natalee Holloway mystery.  We‘ll show you the underwater technology that may uncover some answers on the island of Aruba.

And he‘s the ultimate playboy.


HUGH HEFNER, “PLAYBOY” MAGAZINE FOUNDER:  From point of view, I‘m the luckiest cat on the planet, and I know it.


COSBY:  Now, Hugh Hefner gives me a look inside his booming empire.  He and his three girlfriends bear all, sharing their secrets on romance, beauty, and of course, sex.  They‘re all coming up next on LIVE AND DIRECT.



CAPT. MARVIN DEFILLO, NEW ORLEANS POLICE DEPARTMENT:  It was not in line with the department policies and procedures.  It was not in line with the department‘s training.


COSBY:  And that was a police spokesman talking about this shocking police beating in New Orleans, all caught on tape.  Tonight, the victim at the center of this controversy, Robert Davis, is joining me now live to talk about what really happened that night.  Also with us is his attorney, Joseph Bruno, with us again tonight.

Mr. Davis, you know, my jaw drops when I look at that video.  If we can show it again?  Tell us again what happened that night.  You walk up to the cops, and what did you say?

ROBERT DAVIS, BEATEN BY NEW ORLEANS POLICE:  Well, basically, I was asking them about the curfew.  I was concerned.  I had asked someone from the sheriff‘s department.  I had asked someone from the federal—one of the federal law enforcement.  And I saw a New Orleans policeman.  I said, Well, he would know better than anyone.  There seemed to be a lack of communication and coordination between the various agencies.  So I‘m saying to myself, I‘m sure that he could tell me what I wanted to know.  And I asked...

COSBY:  Did you say anything to provoke them?  Did you—were you resisting arrest, or did you say anything to antagonize them?

DAVIS:  No.  If you—if you call asking the question, What time is the curfew for this particular day, no.  I think what happened was that this other officer became involved in—I said to him that he interrupted our conversation, and I was talking to the officer on the horse, who was patrolling the French Quarter at that time.  And I told him he was interrupting the conversation and that he was rude and unprofessional.  If that‘s an indication of being rude or nasty, I didn‘t see it.

COSBY:  Yes, that‘s still certainly...

DAVIS:  I proceeded after that...

COSBY:  That‘s certainly—certainly not a reason to punch somebody.  You know, what happened?  All of a sudden—it looked like they started punching you in the back of the head.  Did you see that coming?

DAVIS:  Well...

COSBY:  And how hard did they hit you?

DAVIS:  I did not see anything coming.  After the conversation with the officer on the horseback, who was black, by the way, I walked across the street and was going to this little store, which I today found again.  And I got hit in the eye, thrown against the wall.  And from there, I don‘t remember much, other than this woman—I don‘t know whether she was black or white, screaming, The man didn‘t do anything!  The man didn‘t do anything!  And the police telling her that if she didn‘t move, she would be arrested also.

COSBY:  Were they—I mean...

DAVIS:  And...

COSBY:  It must have just hurt, though, when we see your head getting hit up against that wall.  It looked like you had a pretty bad beating.

DAVIS:  Well, I haven‘t see this video that everybody‘s talking about.  I‘ve been sheltered and kept away from it for reasons I don‘t—my daughter doesn‘t think I should see it, so I haven‘t not seen it.  I‘m relegated to one channel, and that channel is what I look at most of the time.  Half of the time, I‘m asleep, trying to rest...

COSBY:  Yes...

DAVIS:  ... because the beating I took has taken its toll physically on me.

COSBY:  Now, you...

DAVIS:  I have my back injury.  My shoulder is messed up.

COSBY:  Are you doing OK?  How are you feeling physically?

DAVIS:  Well, physically, I have a fractured cheekbone.  I have a broken nose.  I have a problem with this shoulder.  I can‘t lift it but so high.  I have a lower lumbar strain, or something of that nature, and a very, very nasty looking eye.  Very nasty.

COSBY:  You know, a federal Civil Rights investigation is being launched.  You don‘t believe race was a factor.  In fact, I‘ve heard you on other interviews saying, you know, that it was even the African-American cop who you‘re most angry at.  You don‘t believe race was a part, right?

DAVIS:  No.  No.  In fact, I‘m very concerned because I was talking with him—I have a—this is just a feeling.  I think he sanctioned it.  For some reason, I just—I have that feeling.  I‘m not—after my head cleared up—it‘s been several days since the incident, and I‘ve had a chance to review the situation and give some thought to it.  And he was the person I was conversing with.  So why would this other policeman, for some reason, just jump on me?  I don‘t know.

You know, it may be have been my dress, because I had on a pair of shorts, a T-shirt, socks and sandals, and I had this beard, you know?  And I‘ve had it for a while, not that I don‘t shave, I just haven‘t been in the mood to shave.

COSBY:  Yes, but that certainly is not...


COSBY:  Certainly not a reason to pound someone.  My gosh, when we look at this—and I hope at some point, you do see this video.  It‘s stunning, Mr. Davis.  I‘m glad you‘re OK, even here with us tonight.

Mr. Bruno, what are the things under the law there in Louisiana?  You can‘t get punitive damages, right?  But what are you seeking for him?  What kind of justice do you want now?

JOSEPH BRUNO, DAVIS‘S ATTORNEY:  Well, you know, the most important thing—and we‘ve talked about this—that he wants out of this is to do what he can do to make certain that this doesn‘t happen again.  As I told you last night, and he‘s said on many interviews, we‘re thrilled that the police department is taking the action that they‘ve taken.

DAVIS:  Yes.

BRUNO:  I called the city attorney in the hopes today of getting these charges dropped.  I was deeply disappointed to hear the comments of the lawyer for the police officers, in suggesting that they didn‘t punch him in the face.

As we‘ve been saying for two days, this is an unfortunate event.  It‘s

reflective of a couple of bad apples.  It shouldn‘t reflect on the

community.  And we continue to call upon those in control and power in this

community to do the right thing, to send a message to everybody that this -

this is a beautiful city, you shouldn‘t be afraid to come here.  The policemen are great guys.  You can be safe here, and you should want to come here.

COSBY:  Absolutely.  Great point...


DAVIS:  May I make a comment?

COSBY:  Yes, absolutely.

DAVIS:  May I make...

COSBY:  Go real quick, Robert.

DAVIS:  You know, I—real quick.  I don‘t want this to reflect on the New Orleans Police Department, really, because there are a lot of good guys out there.  In fact, there was a good guy who escorted me from the MASH unit to the holding cell where I was held.  I want to met him sometime before I leave this city and return to where I‘m at right now because, basically, I‘m homeless.  You don‘t have a key to turn, you‘re homeless.

But this guy was professional.  He was straightforward.  And I want to shake his hand.  He couldn‘t shake my hand the other night because he said I had blood on me, but I want to shake his hand.

COSBY:  Well, I hope he‘s watching tonight, and we hope, too.  Let‘s see if we can reunite you two guys.  And I‘m glad you sent the message because I met a lot of good cops down there, too.  And there are a lot of good folks.  And I appreciate both of you guys being here tonight.  Thank you very much.  Good luck with your case, too.

And still ahead, everybody: keeping even crayons out of the hands of the BTK killer.  We will show you the extraordinary measures being taken to stop the twisted fantasies of this serial killer, Dennis Rader.

And Playboy mogul Hugh Hefner reveals all.  He tells me about his new plan to bring Playboy into your home.  I talked to him and his three girlfriends.  You have got to see this interview!  It‘s all next on LIVE AND DIRECT.


COSBY:  Hugh Hefner is on top of the world at the age of 79.  The original “Playboy‘s” name is still synonymous with sex.  His latest venture, a reality show on E! network, inside the walls of the infamous Playboy Mansion. 

While the Hef has the most famous face, three blond bombshells named Holly, Bridget and Kendra—there they are—are hard to miss.  But these are no ordinary girls next door, as the show is named.  They also happen to be Hef‘s girlfriends. 


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE:  Welcome to the Playboy Mansion.

COSBY:  I see some enormous smiles on all of your faces, yours in particular. 


COSBY:  Are you having the time of your life? 

HEFNER:  Yes, I would say so, yes.  The girls have a lot to do with it.  It‘s a very special time for me, both personally and professionally.  The brand is hot.  I‘m looking back on a life well spent.  And we‘re having a lot of fun. 



COSBY:  Why did you decide this reality show?  I would imagine, over the years, you‘ve had so many offers.  But what piqued your interest on this one? 

HEFNER:  Well, I think the notion of doing a reality show at the Playboy Mansion appealed to everybody except me. 


So we had a lot of offers over the last two or three years.  And the real reason is the concept of the show itself.  It is through the eyes of the girls.  And that takes the pressure off of daddy. 

COSBY:  So you can relax? 

HEFNER:  Yes. 

COSBY:  Let them do all the work? 

HEFNER:  Yes. 


COSBY:  So to speak. 

HEFNER:  Yes. 

COSBY:  Why are you doing it?  Why is it fun for you? 

MADISON:  I was a little bit hesitant about it at first.  I thought that maybe the producers would try and cause drama between us, and I wasn‘t really ready to have that in exchange for a show, but it turned out great. 

We‘re having a lot of fun with it.  We don‘t take it too seriously. 

We just like to watch it and laugh, and we have a really fun time doing it. 

COSBY:  How much of it is staged?  And how much of it is real reality? 



COSBY:  Even the fights and the tit-for-tats? 

WILKINSON:  What fights? 


COSBY:  They can‘t show everything you do, right? 

HEFNER:  Yes, no, not everything.  I could not have imagined it was going to be as much fun as it is.  So the high point of every week is looking at the new show. 

COSBY:  How wild is life at the Playboy Mansion? 

HEFNER:  Well, what you see is pretty much what you get.  I mean, my life is, as I‘ve said before, an open book with illustrations.  On many levels, I know, you know, I‘m a very lucky guy.  It‘s a fantasy life. 

I‘m a kid who grew up in a very typical Midwestern Methodist home without a lot of hugs and kisses.  And I think that I escaped into dreams early on that came out of the movies and the music of my childhood.  And I think my life itself is an expression of those fantasies. 

And I think the fact that I share them with a lot of other people is why “Playboy” has been so successful. 

COSBY:  Is there one person you would still love to get for “Playboy”? 

HEFNER:  I don‘t know.  Everybody has their own... 

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE:  I know one.  Angelina Jolie. 



HEFNER:  I was going say Angelina.  Yes, yes. 

COSBY:  Why have you been able to stay so successful through the years? 

HEFNER:  I think, with the magazine, it has to do with the fact that we‘ve taken the high road.  It‘s a magazine of quality.  People refer to it as a sex magazine.  I‘ve never thought of it as that.  I think it‘s really a lifestyle magazine, with a romantic connection between the sexes.  And that has made it through the years very, very popular. 

COSBY:  Are we an oversexed society or are we undersexed, in your opinion? 

HEFNER:  I think we are both.  I think there are excesses in terms of sexuality and, very obviously, America remains very Puritan, as well.  That‘s what America is really all about. 

COSBY:  On the Richter scale, where are we now, in terms of sexuality? 

HEFNER:  We are certainly a long ways from where we were when I started the magazine in 1950s. 

COSBY:  Are we able to push the envelope more than we ever were? 

HEFNER:  Yes.  But I also say that—you know, I think that it is also a matter of, you know, two steps forward, two steps back. 

COSBY:  You were married at one point.  You‘re single now, have three beautiful girlfriends, which we see here.  Which phase of your life do you like better?  Do you like being single or do you like being married? 

HEFNER:  Well, I think it‘s different for different people.  There are many roads to Mecca.  In my case, there‘s no comparison.  In other words, the happiest time in my life is right now.  And the happiest time of my life has been when I‘ve been single. 

COSBY:  Are you dating really all three of these women? 

HEFNER:  Oh, yes. 

COSBY:  Did you fall in love with this man instantly? 


COSBY:  Did you know you were going to have to share? 

MADISON:  Yes, and that was the part I was most reluctant about. 

There were seven girls at the time.  And I was like, “I don‘t know.” 

But I thought, you know, this is a guy I have a crush on.  And, you know, he leads an amazing lifestyle.  And I think I‘m just going to give it a try, and it worked out really well. 

COSBY:  No jealously between all of you gals? 

MADISON:  Not now.  This group is heaven compared to what we had before, so...

COSBY:  There were a lot of cat fighting before? 

MADISON:  Yes, it was a lot of girls who, you know, just all wanted to be in the group and didn‘t necessarily get along.  So to have this group now, people are always asking me, “Well, how can you date a guy who dates other girls?”  And you‘re like, “You don‘t understand.  This group is so great.”  You know, we‘re just having a lot of fun right now. 

COSBY:  No jealously, no trying to undermine each other?  Not at all? 

HEFNER:  No.  Not at all.

COSBY:  Wow.  That‘s amazing. 

MADISON:  We all love this lifestyle and this relationship.  And we all care about Hef, so we want to try and make it work. 

COSBY:  You said that you thought of “Playboy” since you were four years old? 

BRIDGET MARQUARDT, HUGH HEFNER‘S GIRLFRIEND:  There were magazines sitting on the coffee table that I wasn‘t really supposed to look at.  They were my dad‘s.  But when no one was looking, I would peak looks at them, and I would think, “I want to be just like those girls.” 

And I wasn‘t seeing the nudity.  I was just seeing beautiful girls. 

And I knew I wanted to be like that some day. 

COSBY:  Is it better or the same as you imagined or different? 

MARQUARDT:  It is exactly what I imagined and much, much more. 


COSBY:  Do you give them an allowance? 

HEFNER:  Yes, sure. 

COSBY:  How do you get by? 

HEFNER:  Allowance, sure.

COSBY:  Do they get a clothing allowance? 

HEFNER:  Yes, sure. 

COSBY:  Do they get a weekend stipend, or how does that work? 

MADISON:  He takes care of us pretty well. 

COSBY:  How much is...


HEFNER:  Obviously room and board.

COSBY:  How much is the clothing allowance? 

HEFNER:  Not too much money. 

COSBY:  Am I in the wrong business? 



COSBY:  Do you have room for another girlfriend at some point? 

HEFNER:  Not at this point.  I‘m very happy.

COSBY:  Not a decision—Holly saying, “No, no, no, no, no.” 


Is that a relief to the rest of you?  Because here he is, 79 years old, does he have more energy than you, you and you combined? 




COSBY:  Is it Viagra?  Do you take Viagra?

HEFNER:  Yes, sure, of course. 

COSBY:  You do?

HEFNER:  Yes, sure, of course.

COSBY:  Do you stand by it? 

HEFNER:  Without question, yes.  You put that very well.  You know, with three girlfriends, you need Viagra.  But I think what makes this relationship work and what keeps me young is the girls themselves. 

COSBY:  What do your parents say about your life with Hugh Hefner?

WILKINSON:  They love it.  They support me with everything I do. 

COSBY:  Have they met—has your parents met Hugh Hefner? 


WILKINSON:  Oh, yes, they come up all the time.  They come up all the time.

HEFNER:  Grandma was just here last weekend with three of her lady friends. 

WILKINSON:  Golfing friends.

COSBY:  Oh, they were?  Have they ever said, “Are you taking good care of my daughter?”

HEFNER:  I think they know that. 

COSBY:  How does it feel to just bare all? 

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE:  Well, for me, it‘s a dream come true.  I could do that every day. 

COSBY:  How is it for you?  Now, I see you wearing your clothes in the pictures.  Is there a reason you decided to stay dressed when you let them take their clothes off? 

HEFNER:  Yes, it‘s their pictorial. 


COSBY:  What‘s ahead for you?  Is there something else that‘s still sort of yet undone? 

HEFNER:  Well, this is a very, very exciting time for me, both personally and professionally.  There‘s so many things going on. 

COSBY:  You look like you‘re a kid in the candy store.  You look so happy.

HEFNER:  I am a kid in the candy store.  I dreamed impossible dreams.  And the dreams turned out beyond anything I could possibly imagine.  You know, from my point of view, I‘m the luckiest cat on the planet.  And I know it. 


COSBY:  And our thanks to Hugh Hefner and his three girlfriends.  It was a lot of fun.

And for all of you “Playboy” readers out there, the price of the magazine is soon going to be going up in your local newsstands.  Starting in February, “Playboy” will cost $5.99.  That‘s an increase of $1. 

And still ahead tonight, will this underwater surveillance equipment turn up important clues in the Natalee Holloway investigation?  And why is it now being used?  Natalee‘s mother joins me next LIVE & DIRECT to talk about the new search on the island of Aruba.  Stay tuned. 


COSBY:  New high-tech efforts to find answers tonight in the Natalee Holloway case.  And these efforts are going underwater off the island of Aruba to search for any sign of the missing Alabama teen.  High-tech underwater surveillance equipment never used before is expected to arrive on the island in just a matter of days. 

And joining me now live is the man who‘s responsible for this equipment, Jason Whittle.  He‘s the vice president of Ocean Systems Incorporated. 

Mr. Whittle, first of all, who contacted you about this equipment? 

How‘d you get involved? 

JASON WHITTLE, OCEAN SYSTEMS, INC.:  Well, we were contacted a couple of weeks ago by a gal that found us on the Internet and asked if we would provide some video equipment. 

COSBY:  And what makes this different than the other high-tech sort of devices they‘ve used before underwater? 

WHITTLE:  Well, it‘s very simple to use.  Our equipment is used all over the place.  A team of just a couple of people can cover a large area in a small amount of time. 

COSBY:  Why did it take so long?  You know, I mean, we‘re looking at it now, it‘s been four months since she went missing.  Why‘d it take so long for you to get involved? 

WHITTLE:  Well, we were really never aware of what they were looking to do.  We were contacted a couple of weeks ago.  And once we knew that we might be able to be of assistance, we stepped forward. 

COSBY:  You know, if indeed she was placed there—I know that‘s one of the theories that she may have been placed in the ocean.  And hopefully, we could locate some clues.  Why do you believe, after now it‘s been four months, that there could even be clues left there? 

WHITTLE:  Well, that‘s not really for us to determine.  I‘m just—you know, our equipment can locate, you know, search large areas.  And if there‘s a point of interest, they can send the divers down at that point. 

COSBY:  Have they given you a sense that there is a point of interest?  I know when I was down there we were looking at sort of that point, sort of a direct line, from the fisherman‘s huts, where we believed they spent some time with Natalee.  Have you been told that there‘s sort of an area, and how big of an area will you be checking? 

WHITTLE:  Well, my understanding, that it‘s less than a square mile with the equipment that we‘ve provided.  You know, that amount of space can probably be covered, you know, in a week or two.  You know, there‘s been all kinds of success stories in the past with areas of similar size. 

COSBY:  Oh boy.  And let‘s hope you do get some success here.  When will your equipment actually be arriving?  When will we see it sort of put into action? 

WHITTLE:  Should be there at the beginning of next week. 

COSBY:  OK, great.  Well, we‘ll be watching closely.  And I hope that you do get some good leads for this family. 

And let‘s now bring in, if we could, Natalee‘s mom, Beth Holloway Twitty.  She joins us now LIVE & DIRECT tonight from Birmingham, Alabama. 

Beth, are you hopeful with this new device?  It sounds like they have had some success before. 

BETH HOLLOWAY TWITTY, MOTHER OF NATALEE HOLLOWAY:  Oh, yes, Rita, very.  And, you know, there have always been areas of concern in the water.  And, you know, from fisherman‘s hut area.  And also, September the 30th was the last update that we had gotten from the prosecuting attorney.  And, of course, they were doing some dives there.  And, so, you know, it‘s always been an area of concern. 

COSBY:  Are you going to be guiding this team and sort of giving them, you know, points of interest?  It sounds like they‘ve narrowed it—as he said—one square mile.  At least that it‘s an area; it‘s not this huge ocean area to go to. 

TWITTY:  Well, I believe Art Wood will be spending most of his time with them.  And, of course, while we‘re there, if we get any new information from the investigators or the prosecuting attorney, we will certainly communicate that with them.  And we‘re also hoping that maybe they could communicate with this group that‘s coming to the island.  That would be very helpful. 

COSBY:  Absolutely.  You know, and Art Wood, of course, is the investigator who‘s been working just tirelessly on this case, donating his own time.  I mean, he‘s just been amazing down there.

Is he planning to go back there, Beth?  And are you planning on it? 

What are your plans when you do head down there? 

TWITTY:  We are going back.  And it will be within the next week.  And Art will be also arriving about the same time that I am.  They‘ll be a couple of different searches going on.  One will be concentrating on the water.  And the other will be concentrating on some areas of concern on the island itself. 

COSBY:  Where are those areas of concern on the island?  Are some of them the ones that we‘ve talked about, fisherman‘s hut, the lighthouse?  Are there new points? 

TWITTY:  Well, you know, pretty much, Rita, it‘s just the ones that we‘ve already been over.  But they just want to be so thorough and see if there‘s any area of concern that they have missed. 

COSBY:  You bet.  How long do you plan to be down there, Beth? 

TWITTY:  You know, it‘ll probably be less than a week. 

COSBY:  How do you think it‘s going to be being back there?  You stepped back for a bit, you know, sort of rekindled.  You still have so much great support with the folks of Joe Mamana.  You‘ve got art. 

Do you still feel there‘s definitely still a lot of support and a lot of effort—it‘s almost more than ever—to get some answers now? 

TWITTY:  Oh, absolutely, Rita.  And, you know, I feel like every time I return, it‘s, you know, I expect answers.  And I feel like we hit it a little more aggressively each time. 

And we expect that, you know, also this new taped confession from Deepak will be utilized.  It should arrive in the prosecuting attorney‘s office as early as Thursday.  And hopefully, they will act upon this, this new evidence. 

COSBY:  You bet.  Because some of his statements, particularly of the fact that he said that they all had sex with your daughter, a lot of people are wondering, “Look, are they going to go after rape charges, at least find something to hold these guys on?”

Beth, you know, the other statement came from the prosecutors, too.  Suddenly, there it was, late in the day on Friday.  And a lot of people think that that was just sort of a preempted strike because they‘re worried about a boycott. 

Should they be worried?  And how do you feel about a boycott? 

TWITTY:  Well, you know, Rita, some requests have been made from some officials in Aruba.  And they are requests that should be honored.  And, you know, I think that we have worked so hard, and we‘ve tried to, you know, have a good working relationship between them and the FBI. 

And, you know, they held them at such an assisted mode and really not let them be in a participatory mode, which they should have from the beginning, or we would not be faced with what we‘re facing right now. 

COSBY:  Do you see any sort of groundswell effort to go after a boycott by some folks? 

TWITTY:  Well, I think that Governor Riley has made it perfectly clear some of the family‘s requests.  And, you know, they need to be honored.  You know, if not, you know, I just don‘t know what we‘ll proceed forward with. 

But, you know, we have worked so hard.  We‘re trying to have a resolution.  We put so many things in place as her family.  And, you know, Rita, we have this reward money that I want to make sure I mention every time. 

I mean, you know, the family has the million dollar—you know, for Natalee‘s safe return.  We have the $250,000 reward just for information leading to her whereabouts.  And, you know, we feel like we have done everything we can possibly think of, in trying to have a resolution and, you know, bring forth some information. 

COSBY:  Well, Beth, we are with you all the way.  And I hope you do get some answers this time.  And hopefully, maybe Deepak‘s statements are going to trip him up and everybody else and hopefully push this thing forward.  I hope so, Beth.  Thank you so much. 

TWITTY:  Oh, absolutely.  Thank you so much, Rita. 

COSBY:  Thank you, Beth. 

And, everybody, still ahead, putting an end to the twisted fantasies of the BTK serial killer.  And for the first time, we‘re going to go inside the prison holding Dennis Rader to see what life is like behind bars.  Stay tuned. 



NOLA FOULSTON, WICHITA, KANSAS, DISTRICT ATTORNEY:  Our goal is to stop him and to alert the Kansas Department of Corrections this is not a guy who should have these kind of ads in front of him, nor should he have crayons and other things that he can draw, individuals, and write these out, nor should he be able to make and draw sexual torture chambers. 


COSBY:  And there‘s a big hearing tomorrow, as prosecutors are fighting for strict confinement of BTK serial killer Dennis Rader, now behind bars. 

Tonight, we have exclusive photos that take us inside the prison where Rader is currently being held.  The BTK killer that terrorized Wichita, Kansas, for decades will spend the rest of his life in El Dorado Correctional Facility. 

And joining me now live to talk about the latest in this case is Wichita District Attorney Nola Foulston. 

Nola, first of all, I‘m going to show some photos.  And just real briefly walk us through.  The first ones, a jail cell.  It‘s very similar to what Dennis Rader‘s, basically the exact duplicate.  How big is this cell?  You got a chance to look at it. 

FOULSTON:  It is a duplicate cell. 

COSBY:  Oh, it is? 

FOULSTON:  It‘s less than 100 square feet.  It‘s about eight by 10, Rita, and it‘s a very confined but a very well-designed cell, I might add.  Our cells in the El Dorado Correctional Facility, it‘s a fairly new facility. 

This is what you‘re looking at, is cell block B.  B and A are the places where the individuals who are in segregation, those individuals are there either because they have been security risks that they present to the Department of Corrections or the penitentiary, or they are there because they are under a death sentence.  We have a number of individuals from Sedgwick County. 

What you‘re looking at here is a photo that I particularly took.  It shows the interior of one of those cells.  They are duplicated all over in those segregation block. 

You‘ll notice that there is about a four-inch by five-foot window of opportunity for them to look out.  Notice that there is a mirror above the sink.  That is made of metal, but you can‘t see in that, if they want to get a close shave. 

This is an interesting photograph.  This is the door to the cell.  You can look at that from the interior and can‘t see anyone.  But the individuals on the outside, the guards, can look in and see you. 

Right below it—I don‘t think you can see it right here, but on another photo—you can see the pass-through where individuals receive their meals.  This is another view from the opposite view of the cell. 

Look over to the right on the picture.  You will see plug-ins.  And above the telephone, you‘ll see a cable vision.  That‘s where they plug-in. 

This is that photograph that shows the view that an individual in that particular cell would have, looking out over the wheat fields of Kansas and the other property that belongs to the penal institution. 

COSBY:  And he just has a slim little view. 

Let‘s go back to the cable—and there it is—on the hook-up. 

Because I know tomorrow there‘s a big hearing, a very important hearing. 

And you were very forceful, Nola, in court on this during his sentencing.  You‘re fighting for, what, no TV, no crayons, no magazines.  Why do you think this man shouldn‘t have access to those things? 

FOULSTON:  Well, first of all, there are regulations that do take effect when they‘re in the penitentiary.  This individual has a proclivity for drawing and producing his own pornography. 

So one of the things that we want to do is to assure that he is not producing pornography while he is in the cell at El Dorado Correctional Facility, while he is in a segregated cell and otherwise in that penal institution.  He will also be undergoing sweeps where that information will be taken away from him, those documents that he might prepare. 

Of course, prisoners do have access to pencils to be able to write to their attorneys, to write legal notices.  But one of the things that we want to stop is from him making those drawings that are fantasy drawings for himself. 

This is a matter of security for the facility, as well.  This person lives by making those kind of drawings and enhancing his own sexual desires. 

The cable vision that you saw there allows prisoners who are—have reached a certain level in the penal institution.  And he‘s not ready for that at this point, but they can get television, and they do get a very limited number of TVs. 

We are trying to prohibit him from watching anything that has to do with him on television, because that‘s one of the things that he enjoys the most, seeing himself on TV. 

COSBY:  All right, Nola, thank you.  Good luck tomorrow.

And, everybody, we‘re going to be right back.


COSBY:  And that‘s it for me.  Let‘s now go to “SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY.”


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