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'Scarborough Country' for Oct. 12th

Read the transcript to the Wednesday show

Guests: Kathy Van Olst, Savannah Guthrie, George Malim, Frank DeSalvo, Pamela Davis, Paul Reynolds, Jim Nolan

MONICA CROWLEY, GUEST HOST:  Coming up right now on SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY, a bombshell out of Aruba.  Could the three suspects in the Natalee Holloway case be going back to jail?  We have got the explosive new MSNBC interview with the man now running the investigation.  You will hear his incredible words, and we have reaction from Natalee‘s family. 

Then, Taylor Behl, she would have turned 18 years old tomorrow, but instead of a party her family is now planning a funeral.  We will have the latest on that investigation, plus a new clue that could help solve the question, who killed Taylor Behl?

ANNOUNCER:  From the press room, to the courtroom, to the halls of Congress, Joe Scarborough has seen it all.  Welcome to SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY.

CROWLEY:  Thank you so much for being with us tonight.  I‘m Monica Crowley, in for Joe. 

We will have all of those stories in just a moment, plus, the latest on the taped police beating in New Orleans.  Tonight, the police are fighting back.  They say this tape doesn‘t tell the story and they were doing the right thing.  Their lawyer is here live to tell us why.  You are not going to want to miss what he has to say. 

But first, a new bombshell in the Natalee Holloway story tonight, as a high-ranking Aruban police official tells MSNBC‘s Dan Abrams the suspects in the case are lying and may be rearrested soon. 

With us tonight are Natalee‘s uncle Paul Reynolds and Pamela Davis, a former California prosecutor. 

Welcome to you both. 



CROWLEY:  Paul, let me begin with you. 

You and I have spoken before on this program, and we have been tracking the case throughout.  Do you think that this new information gives your family, Natalee‘s family, and especially your sister, Beth, who is, after all, Natalee‘s mom, renewed momentum as she heads back to Aruba? 

PAUL REYNOLDS, UNCLE OF NATALEE HOLLOWAY:  We are very encouraged by the fact that they are communicating, that the police commissioner has come out and stated his personal interest in this case, and that he is determined to find these answers, and, you know, this is what we have been wanting to hear, that the case is still ongoing, that it‘s under investigation, and it gives us new hope. 

CROWLEY:  Well, Paul, Pamela, please stand by. 

I want us to take a listen to the interview that we are talking about here.  This is a portion of Dan Abrams‘ remarkable exclusive interview with the deputy police in Aruba.  Dan asked if any of the boys ever admitted to having sex with Natalee that night. 

Here it is. 


GERALD DOMPIG, ARUBAN DEPUTY CHIEF OF POLICE:  if these tapes are legitimate, it could turn around the case.

DAN ABRAMS, NBC CHIEF LEGAL CORRESPONDENT:  Why is that?  Is what he says on that tape inconsistent with what he said in interviews with the police?

DOMPIG:  Absolutely.  Absolutely.  They always denied having sex with this young girl.  And so, in looking at the tapes, to watch if this is really what this gentleman has said, then it is totally contrary to what he has declared at our police station.

ABRAMS:  So, if those tapes are verified by you, are you going to re- arrest Deepak Kalpoe?

DOMPIG:  That‘s—of course, that‘s one of the strong possibilities. 

Don‘t forget that we do have to follow tactical issues and strategies.

The issue, also, is that, in Aruba, we don‘t know the plea bargains.  It‘s not allowed within our system.  So we do have to follow different rules and regulations.

But I assure you that, once this is verified, and if it‘s legitimate, the case will turn around fully.  And it will be for us absolutely enough new information to talk once more to this young man, or, as a matter of fact, with maybe to all three.

ABRAMS:  So what would you do—let‘s again assume that you‘re able to verify this tape.  Joran Van Der Sloot is living in the Netherlands right now.


ABRAMS:  Would you demand that he return?

DOMPIG:  That‘s a possibility.  We always—we will have to go through the judge of instruction, of course, for every new activity, which you could say basically is evasive for whatever reasons, because people have constitutional rights.

If we want to do searches and we want to arrest people within a case like this, we do have to go to a judge.

ABRAMS:  So let‘s be clear.  Up to this point, Deepak Kalpoe has denied having had sex with Natalee that night?

DOMPIG:  That‘s correct.

ABRAMS:  What about the other suspect, Joran Van Der Sloot, for example?  Did he deny repeatedly that he ever had sex with Natalee that night?

DOMPIG:  They all denied.  And I—it‘s—I‘m glad you asked you that question, because there‘s also some rumors going around from I think part of the family that Joran supposedly declared in one of his statements that he had sex with this girl in his home or his apartment.


DOMPIG:  There‘s no mention nowhere in the statements of that.

ABRAMS:  All right, let me...

DOMPIG:  The only thing that he...

ABRAMS:  Let me let you listen to this from Beth Twitty.  And then I want you to respond.



BETH HOLLOWAY TWITTY, MOTHER OF NATALEE HOLLOWAY:  I‘ve seen several of Joran‘s statements.  And I don‘t know why he was released.  He has her coming in and out of consciousness repeatedly throughout his statements.  You know, he admits to bringing her to his home.  And he even gives a date and a time, 1: 40 a. m.  on May the 30th, and, you know, has sex with her in his home.


ABRAMS:  So you‘re saying that that is simply not true?

DOMPIG:  Not true.  The statements—as I said earlier, also, we are

re-reading all the statements at this moment.  And there‘s no statement of

that kind.

The only statement that comes close is that he had a plan—he wanted to go to the house to have sex or whatever, but—and they stopped in front of the house, but they did not leave the car.  So they didn‘t go into the house.  That‘s his statement.

And I think that maybe somewhere, somehow Beth saw the statement—it was translated, or she didn‘t get the statement completely the way it is.  But I assure you this is the statement.

ABRAMS:  We have heard from official statements from the authorities in Aruba that Joran Van Der Sloot made inconsistent statements.  True?

DOMPIG:  That is correct.

ABRAMS:  What were they inconsistent about?


DOMPIG:  Well, it would take me I think a little over two days to go over all the inconsistencies.  It‘s—none of the stories match up, let me put it that way.  So when it comes to believing this individual, we know in which category to place him.

ABRAMS:  All right.  But when you say that none of the statements match up, he never claims that—he never admitted to having sex with Natalee, correct?


ABRAMS:  He never admitted to killing Natalee or knowing what happened to Natalee, correct?


ABRAMS:  The inconsistencies were, when was he on the beach with her, did they go back to his house, etcetera?

DOMPIG:  Exactly, details.

ABRAMS:  Was there a major detail he was inconsistent about?

DOMPIG:  I can‘t comment on that, because talking about that would really also expose future strategies and tactics we have.


CROWLEY:  That was from today‘s “ABRAMS REPORT.”

And let‘s go right back to Natalee Holloway‘s uncle, Paul Reynolds, and also Pamela Davis is standing by, a former California prosecutor. 

Paul, what do you think when you hear this coming from the deputy chief of police in Aruba? 

REYNOLDS:  Well, I am glad they are taking a look at the case.  You know, I am glad that they are rereading all of the statements that were made.  I suspect there were volumes of statements that were collected, and I think it‘s very important to go over those very carefully, look at what he was saying, and, you know, we thought from the beginning that statements were made that were incriminating, and possibly lesser charges rather than the maximum charges.

But certainly something is there and we want the investigation to continue and focus on those—those statements. 

CROWLEY:  Pamela Davis, I would love to get your reaction to this.  It seems like there are some gigantic discrepancies here in what Joran and some of these other guys, particularly Deepak, have told police over time. 

DAVIS:  It certainly appears that way.  And, you know, it strikes me that the chief deputy is so adamant about how many discrepancies there are. 

You know, he is careful to say he can‘t go into the details of those, because it might reveal what their strategies are in the pending investigation, but there‘s a portion of this tape that wasn‘t played or on the interview that wasn‘t played where he says that he is confident that they have the right individuals.

And I can say as a former prosecutor that you rarely will get anyone in law enforcement to say such a strong statement before they have gone in and filed the case, so they must have information and feel pretty positive about things at this point. 

CROWLEY:  Pamela, do you think it‘s new information?  I mean, what would trigger the deputy chief of police in Aruba to make this kind of statement now?  I mean, this has been an ongoing investigation for months now. 

DAVIS:  I am not really certain.  We can speculate that they have discovered something new, but it may be as simple as this is what they needed, or these inconsistent statements that probably support the theories that the police have had all along about what did happen that night, and now you have at least one of the individuals admitting that he had sex with Natalee Holloway, as well as the other two individuals. 

And that may simply be enough that they feel their case is much stronger at this point. 

CROWLEY:  And, Paul Reynolds, do you believe that Deepak speaking to Dr. Phil on television, taking a polygraph test, do you think that that perhaps scared the authorities in Aruba into making these kinds of very forward statements? 

REYNOLDS:  I think they are taking a look at the information that‘s coming out.  You know, certainly my sister has been very strong in her commitment to finding her daughter, and I think that‘s had an impact. 

And with Dr. Phil coming out with that, it‘s forced a lot of people to take a second look. 

CROWLEY:  Paul, why do you think Joran and Deepak are talking to the press right now?  I mean, Joran gave a very extensive interview on television cameras, Deepak now talking to Dr. Phil.  Why do you think they are going public now? 

REYNOLDS:  I think they are young.  I think they will make mistakes.  This is what we have thought all along, that the truth will come out, and we have just been waiting for that to happen. 

CROWLEY:  All right.  Paul Reynolds and Pamela Davis, please stand by. 

Police punches caught on tape, but the lawyer for these cops says they were just doing their job and what you are seeing right here was not a crime.  He is here to tell us why coming up live. 

And the day the body of Taylor Behl is turned over to her family, a huge clue in the case from police.  Could it help solve this case? 

We will get the very latest.  Stick around.


CROWLEY:  The New Orleans cops caught on tape punching a 64-year-old man are now fighting back.  Coming up, their lawyer will tell us why this was justified. 


CROWLEY:  They were good buddies, and they may be the only ones who know what really happened to Natalee Holloway.  And they may also be heading back to jail. 

Let me bring back Natalee Holloway‘s uncle, Paul Reynolds, and also Pamela Davis.  She is a former California prosecutor. 

And, you know, Paul, you have been absolutely relentless, you and your sister, Beth, that these three boys, Joran van der Sloot and Deepak and Satish Kalpoe, that these three individuals are response for the disappearance of Natalee. 

I want to go right now back to Dan Abrams‘ exclusive interview with the deputy police chief in Aruba, because in this part of the interview, Dan was asking him if he is sure that these are the guys who were responsible for Natalee disappearing that night, and what he has to say seems to back up your theory, Paul.  Here it is. 


ABRAMS:  Do you believe that Joran, Deepak, and Satish were involved in Natalee‘s disappearance? 

DOMPIG:  Well, at this time, I think that all three persons know something that they are not telling, at least not telling us. 

ABRAMS:  Something about her disappearance? 

DOMPIG:  Exactly.  And I go by the rule of thumb that the first 40 days—I said in a different program, the first 40 days, law enforcement has probably also already spoken to the perpetrators.

So we feel strongly that we have already spoken to them and there‘s no one else outside this group that could be involved or responsible, so sometimes people ask us that, are you not tunnel-visioned?  Maybe you should look at other possibilities.  Of course.  We did that, but we still feel that every time you go on a path, a different path, that path leads back, comes back to these three boys. 


CROWLEY:  Pamela Davis, you just heard what the deputy police chief in Aruba had to say.  And if what he is saying is, in fact, true, then why not rearrest these three boys immediately? 

DAVIS:  I think my understanding is they are waiting to try to get a copy of that tape.  I think they want to test the accuracy or the credibility of the tape and make sure there wasn‘t anything that was altered on it, and if they can show those are, in fact, the statements, that may be the time they go in and arrest the individuals. 

CROWLEY:  Paul, are you and Beth hopeful that you will see these three boys rearrested? 

REYNOLDS:  We are very hopeful.  You know, it wasn‘t that long ago that we were very excited about the developments, when they rearrested the Kalpoe brothers. 

We heard at that time that the interrogations were going well, that the boys were beginning to talk, and it was very concerning to us when what seemed like all of a sudden the judge released not only Joran, but the Kalpoe brothers as well.  And, you know, it kind of happened when no one was looking, and no one was communicating with us.  You know, my sister didn‘t hear from the prosecutor.  The defense seemed to know before anyone else that they were being released. 

And that caused a great deal of frustration on our family‘s part and a great deal of concern, but we are glad now that things are turning back around, that, with the prosecutor‘s statement last week, and the political coming out this week, we feel, you know, that they are back on track, and something is going to happen. 

CROWLEY:  Pamela Davis, how do you as a former prosecutor when you look at a case like this, how do you build a case without a confession and without a body? 

DAVIS:  This is a tough case, and I think that‘s why we have seen a significant delay from the time of the alleged murder.

And I think everybody at this point agrees that that‘s most likely what occurred.  And I think, without a body, and without significant physical evidence, this is a very difficult case, and it will be very circumstantial, and they will need to have a lot of inconsistencies built in to support the case that they are going to bring. 


CROWLEY:  And, Pamela, why don‘t think that these three boys have cracked?  They have been under enormous pressure. 

DAVIS:  You know, I think the deputy chief brought something up, when he talked about the difference between our systems. 

I think, as U.S. citizens, we are used to the situation where one person will go in and, you know, using the phrase, turn state‘s evidence, or point the finger at another individual in order to give themselves a better deal.  Well, that doesn‘t exist in the Aruba system.  In the Aruba system, my understanding is that all individuals will have—once they are charged, they, in fact, are charged with that crime, and there‘s no such thing as going in and plea-bargaining or assisting your way out of a case.

And because of that, I think you are less likely to see somebody crack early in the case, trying to get themselves a better disposition at the end. 

CROWLEY:  You know, Paul, we have seen so much media scrutiny on this case, and now with this latest interview by the deputy chief of police in Aruba, it seems like the case has even more momentum, which means added media attention onto it. 

Do you think that that media attention has really had an impact in keeping the authorities in Aruba focused on bringing justice for Natalee? 

REYNOLDS:  I think absolutely.  The media, you know, has kept people informed, and it‘s allowed people to follow this.  And the support that we have received from across America and around the globe, and in Aruba, has been tremendous, and the media has been very instrumental in keeping that focus, and that‘s what‘s going to help us find the answers that we need. 

CROWLEY:  All right.  Well, of course, we are on top of this story, and particularly now with these new developments. 

Paul Reynolds, all the best to your family. 

And, Pamela Davis, thank you so much for being with us tonight. 

DAVIS:  Thank you. 

REYNOLDS:  Thank you. 

CROWLEY:  Now to the case of Taylor Behl.  She would have been 18 years old tomorrow, but instead of a birthday party, her family will be holding a visitation at a funeral home. 

Taylor‘s body was found in a shallow grave in a rural Virginia field, and police say their prime suspect is 38-year-old Benjamin Fawley.  There you see him.  And tonight, police are looking at a new clue in this case. 

Jim Nolan is with “The Richmond Times-Dispatch,” and he joins us now by phone with the very latest in this case. 

Welcome to you, Jim. 


CROWLEY:  So, we understand that the new clue that the police are talking about here, or that they might have, is a credit card receipt.  Can you tell us about that? 

NOLAN:  Well, yes.  Police who are investigating this case have found that Ben Fawley used a bank card the morning after Taylor Behl was last reported missing.  That card was used at a location somewhere between Richmond and Mathews County, where, of course, we know Taylor‘s remains were found last week. 

CROWLEY:  You know, in your piece today, Jim, you talk about law enforcement officials saying that they need more time to determine a cause of death, and I also understand that the initial autopsy was inconclusive.  What are the authorities looking for?  What are they really looking at in terms of clues when they look at this girl‘s body? 

NOLAN:  Well, first of all, we were told that the remains were mostly skeletal, and that initial gross autopsy showed nothing obvious in terms of a possible cause of death. 

What police want to do now is, they are sending these results of the autopsy out for further forensic testing, and when this testing comes back, they hope to have a better and more narrow idea of what may have been the cause of Taylor‘s death. 

CROWLEY:  Now, Jim, so far that we are hearing that this guy, Ben Fawley, this 38-year-old man, is the prime suspect, but are the investigators also looking at other individuals perhaps as part of a broader conspiracy? 

NOLAN:  Well, Richmond Police Chief Rodney Monroe last week identified Fawley as a suspect in this case.  He is the only suspect that‘s been named.  And when we talked with the chief about whether there were any other possible suspects, he did not foreclose the possibility.  However, he did say that it was remote at this time.  I have no information that suggests otherwise. 

CROWLEY:  Jim, Taylor‘s body was released to her family yesterday. 

How is that family doing? 

NOLAN:  Well, I think the family is going through a very traumatic time.  Of course, their hopes were buoyed initially in the investigation, when, 12 days after she was reported missing, they discovered her car. 

And I think Ms. Pelasara and other family members had the sense that

perhaps she was somewhere around, perhaps somewhere in town; of course,

since the gruesome discovery of last week, I think the full impact of the

fact that she is not coming home has hit them, and they are having a

visitation tomorrow in Vienna, and a funeral to follow the next day

And in both situations, they have requested that only family and friend s and well-wishers attend.  It‘s clearly a sense that this is a family in mourning now, and in deep grief.  And we intend to respect that. 

CROWLEY:  Yes, and tomorrow would have been Taylor Behl‘s 18th birthday, and instead of celebrating, they are in mourning at this hour. 

Jim, when do you expect that charges might be filed against Ben Fawley? 

NOLAN:  Well, first of all, Monica, what police need to get is a more defined possible cause of death for Taylor.  As you know, there have been no charges filed in connection with her death yet.  It‘s not until they determine a cause of death that they will be able to proceed with possible charges against the suspect. 

That‘s a critical component to this investigation, and we are told the police still have an extensive amount of investigation that they want to do to help narrow their idea of what happened.  They are investigating the case as a homicide.  And so they expect to file charges as soon as—within weeks of getting a determination of the cause of death. 

CROWLEY:  And you don‘t suspect that there will be any chance for bail for Mr. Fawley, do you? 

NOLAN:  Well, Mr. Fawley is indigent.  He survives on a Social Security disability pension.  He certainly would be considered a flight risk at this stage.  He has got a prior criminal background, and he is already in custody on child pornography charges and recent charges of possession of a firearm by a convicted felon. 

My guess is that there‘s not a judge in the state of Virginia who is going to allow him to be released on bail. 

CROWLEY:  All right.  Jim Nolan, thank you so much for your time tonight.  Appreciate it. 

NOLAN:  Thank you, Monica. 

CROWLEY:  And we will continue to follow this case, as police close in on their main suspect.  The latest in this story coming up tomorrow night. 

And up next, right now, you have seen the video, police punching a retired schoolteacher in New Orleans.  There it is.  But now the lawyer for these cops says, what they are doing is the right thing.  How could that be?  Well, he will be here to explain coming up live. 

And a young California woman vanishes without a trace at a casino.  Tonight, the latest on the desperate search for the man in charge of that case. 

Stick around.


CROWLEY:  Is it a case of NFL players gone wild?  What big-name players are accused of doing off the field that could have their future on the field in jeopardy.  That story is coming up. 

But, first, here‘s the latest news from MSNBC World Headquarters. 


CROWLEY:  Have you seen this woman?

Twenty-seven-year-old Christie Wilson was last seen leaving a casino in California a week ago.  We will get an update on that search for her.  And then, a wild biking sex party, sounds like something out of a history book, but, no, it‘s the NFL‘s Minnesota Vikings.  We will get a report on the accusations from an out-of-control party. 

Welcome back to SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY, everybody.  I‘m Monica Crowley, in for Joe tonight.  We will have those stories in just moments.

But, first, the police in New Orleans have been under tremendous pressure and stretched very thin since Hurricane Katrina.  But is this standard operating procedure for the New Orleans Police Department?  Sixty-four-year-old Robert Davis says police beat him for no reason last Saturday night in the French Quarter. 

The police say he was drunk and he resisted arrest. 

Joining me to talk about this incident is Frank DeSalvo.  He represents the three New Orleans police officers who have been charged and now suspended without pay. 

Frank, welcome to you. 


CROWLEY:  All right, We have all seen this tape, and the police now say that they were just following procedure, but based on what we see in this tape, is that really any kind of police procedure? 


You had a man who was stumbling down the street so intoxicated, that he actually stumbled into a police horse.  The police officers involved went to talk to him and tried to get him to say where he was living, if he had any friends in the area who could come pick him up.  And instead of being cooperative with them, he told them to go F. themselves and pushed himself to go away. 

At that point, they decided they needed to bring him over to a wall, cuff him and frisk him.  When they went to cuff him, he decided that he didn‘t want to get cuffed.  He was just not going to do it.  They put his left arm behind him.  They got him cuffed.  They couldn‘t pull the right.  He put his hands in his waistband, and he was just resisting. 

One police officer was striking him, trying to strike between the shoulders and the neck, because that‘s where the pressure point is to bring the arm around.  He did hit him in the head.  He did hit him in the shoulder.  He did hit him in the back, but this is a kinetic thing, in motion, and he got hit in the head.  He got hit everywhere, but he didn‘t get hit in the face, and he didn‘t get hit anywhere where he was bleeding. 

An FBI agent, actually two FBI agents who were walking by saw the incident and came to their aid because this guy was resisting, and if you watch him being taken down, that was an FBI agent doing it, who brought him down, doing his job.  The man fell down, hit his face.  And that‘s where the blood came from. 

DESALVO:  He continued to resist.

CROWLEY:  All right, Mr. DeSalvo, let‘s say everything you are saying is true. 

DESALVO:  It is. 

CROWLEY:  And let‘s just assume for the sake of argument that Mr.  Davis were drunk and that he did, in fact, resist arrest.  Did the police officers really need to use this much force to subdue him? 

DESALVO:  Well, the answer to that is, yes, of course, it‘s true, because if he had allowed them to cuff him immediately, they wouldn‘t have had to use any force. 

If after the first blow to his shoulder, his back, he allowed them to cuff him, then they wouldn‘t have had to hit him again.  And carry that through.  The important factor there is, after he was cuffed, there was no more physical activity at all. 

CROWLEY:  Well, I want to go now to a clip of Mr. Davis‘ attorney, and he had something to say in response to your comments today.  I want you to take a listen.  Here it is. 

DESALVO:  That‘s all right. 


JOSEPH BRUNO, ATTORNEY FOR ROBERT DAVIS:  Frank, hey, man, Frank says they didn‘t hit him in the face.  Look at the tape.  The guy is pounding on his cheek, which is where the fractures are, and he‘s got fractures around the orbit of the eye. 

I got to say, denial is not what we need right now.  What we need right now is, OK, you know, this happened.  We are going to deal with it.  We are going to accept responsibility, and we are going to move on.  That‘s what we need. 


CROWLEY:  Frank DeSalvo, your reaction to what was just said. 

DESALVO:  He is trying to make some money.  That‘s what he does. 

In fact, if you look behind me, if they focus on that big building, there‘s a building he owns because of the money he makes doing plaintiff work.  That‘s just malarkey.  You know, this guy was drunk.  He was belligerent.  He was resisting arrest, and the police officers not only have the authority to do it; they had the duty not to let this guy stumble down the street drunk and be a danger to himself and be a danger to the citizenry. 

CROWLEY:  OK, Frank, but what we are seeing right now on the other side of the screen is Mr. Davis being repeatedly punched.  So even if he were drunk and belligerent, did he really deserve all of this? 

DESALVO:  All he had to do was take his right hand and let them cuff him, and that ended.  When he finally got cuffed, that was over.  Had he done what he was supposed to do, none of this would have happened. 

CROWLEY:  All right.  Now, there is some discrepancy between the two stories here.  The police say that Mr. Davis was, in fact, drunk and resisting arrest.  Mr. Davis himself has said, no, he was sober.  He has not had a drink in 25 years.  Was there why was there no Breathalyzer test administered here? 

DESALVO:  I don‘t need a Breathalyzer test to prove he was drunk.  I can prove it.  I can prove it. 

CROWLEY:  Well, how are the police going to prove that he was drunk at this particular moment in time?  Are you telling me there were a lot of witnesses that can testify to that fact? 

DESALVO:  I am telling you that I can prove it.  I can prove that he was drunk.  He had been drunk for a while.  And he has been drunk in the past. 

And people have been talking about the stress.  If he hadn‘t had a drink in 25 years, maybe it was the stress of Katrina that caused him to fall off the wagon, but he was plastered.  Now, he was on alcohol and he was probably on drugs. 

CROWLEY:  Why no Breathalyzer? 

DESALVO:  Because there‘s no provision in the law to do it.  The police didn‘t have the authority to have him do a Breathalyzer.  That‘s something that comes with driving while intoxicated.  And the only way you can force that or a blood test in Louisiana is if, in a driving while intoxicated case, there‘s severe bodily injury or death. 

Short of that, there‘s no way of ordering it.  That‘s the way the law is written. 

CROWLEY:  So, now, Mr. DeSalvo...


DESALVO:  We didn‘t write it.  But...

CROWLEY:  You mentioned that perhaps Mr. Davis perhaps was drinking because of the stress of Hurricane Katrina.  We have heard a lot about police officers also being under enormous stress since that hurricane hit that city.  So are we looking at perhaps a Katrina defense, both for Mr.  Davis and perhaps even for the cops? 

DESALVO:  Absolutely not. 

There‘s no Katrina defense here.  The defense here is that they did what they were supposed to do, how they were supposed to do it, and that the problems in this case became—were—were the result of Mr. Davis acting the fool that evening. 

CROWLEY:  All right.  Well, this investigation does continue to unfold.  And, Frank DeSalvo, I want to thank you so much for your time tonight.  Thank you. 

DESALVO:  Thanks for listening to me. 

CROWLEY:  We turn now to the desperate search in California for 27-year-old Christie Wilson.  There you see her.

Wilson was last seen leaving this casino more than a week ago, and she hasn‘t been spotted since.  Surveillance cameras captured her in the parking lot with an older man, who police are now calling a person of interest. 

So, what happened to Christie Wilson, and does that surveillance tape provide any more clues into her disappearance? 

Joining me now is Lieutenant George Malim.  He‘s the lead investigator in this case. 

Lieutenant, welcome to you. 


CROWLEY:  All right.  So bring us up to date on this case.  What do we know so far? 

MALIM:  What we know so far is that Ms. Wilson was up staying with her boyfriend for about two weeks, and she then on October 4 in the afternoon, evening hours, her boyfriend went to his father‘s house for dinner.  She decided to stay behind, and just hang out at the apartment. 

She then about 5:30, 6:00 or so telephoned her boyfriend, left him a voice mail message on his cell phone saying that she was going to go to the casino.  And then later on in the evening about 10:30 or 11:00, we know she called him, left him another voice mail, said she was still at the casino, but that she would be coming home shortly.  That‘s the last the boyfriend has contact or hears from her.

And in reviewing the videotape, we find her on the videotape with this person of interest.  It appears they meet at one of the card tables, and they go from table to table together.  And then about 1:13 in the morning, we see the both of them walking out of the entrance, one of the entrances to the casino, and out towards the parking lot where this person of interest said his car was parked. 

Unfortunately, the parking lot at that area is dark, not to mention the fact that vehicles were coming in and out and the lights were hitting the camera, so we lost sight of them, and they kind of blended into the darkness. 

CROWLEY:  Now, this older man that she left the casino with, this 53-year-old man, he is considered a person of interest, but he is not formally a suspect, right?  Right?

MALIM:  Correct. 

CROWLEY:  OK.  What do we know about him?  Do we have any details on him?  Anything suspicious in his background? 

MALIM:  Regarding his background, anything we have on that at this point, we are not going to release.  Obviously, he is not a suspect.  He is a person of interest. 

I think it would be kind of remiss of us to release that kind of information about this man, as well as the fact that releasing this kind of information, should it come to a criminal case later on, which we don‘t know that it will, could definitely be prejudicial against the gentleman, and we want to maintain the integrity of this case, and we are looking further down the line. 

CROWLEY:  I also understand that you seized this man‘s car.  Was there any evidence or clues in there to be found? 

MALIM:  Yes. 

He voluntarily let us take his car.  We got a search warrant for it.  Our evidence techs went through and processed the vehicle.  We did find some items of forensic interest, and we did send them off to the state crime lab to be evaluated. 

MALIM:  And, Lieutenant, do you have any other—any other leads to go on, any other kind of surveillance tapes or anything else that you are looking at? 

MALIM:  We have gone through at least 14 hours of surveillance tapes so far, and we are looking at—we are going to basically take and get all 24 hours of the videotape from the casino during that time, and review it all. 

All‘s we know is that this gentleman was the last person that she was seen with, and we are jumping to no conclusions now at all regarding what happened or what the circumstances were.  We are doing what we need to do, which is let the evidence take us in the direction that it takes, and not jump to a conclusion and make the evidence fit what we believe happened. 

CROWLEY:  Indeed.  Lieutenant George Malim, thank you so much for your time tonight. 

MALIM:  Thank you, Monica. 

CROWLEY:  And I am joined now by my friend Tucker Carlson, host of


So, Tucker, what is the situation tonight? 

TUCKER CARLSON, HOST, “THE SITUATION”:  Oh, more sex scandals rocking the Catholic Church, Monica.  I know more decent religious people who have stopped going to church because of them.  And now there‘s another.

The Archdiocese of L.A., Los Angeles, posted on their Web site 126 files of priests who apparently molested kids.  Unbelievable.  We are going to have a spokesman for the victims on tonight.  Plus, on the flip side of that, Dr. Drew Pinsky, the famous sex expert, joins us to explain why so few married couples actually sleeping together—that according to a monstrous, very large MSNBC survey of sex in America, pretty shocking, actually. 

CROWLEY:  What is going on there?  I am going to turn in for that. 

CARLSON:  Oh, it‘s depressing. 

CROWLEY:  It is. 

Thank you so much, Tucker.

CARLSON:  Thanks, Monica.

CROWLEY:  And be sure to tune into The Situation coming up next at 11:00 Eastern time. 

And, up next right here, courtroom shocker.  A teenager admits to shaking a baby right before the baby dies.  Yet, tonight, she walks free.  How could this possibly happen?  The stunning turn of events today. 

And did a quick cruise turn into out-of-control sex romp for some big-name NFL players?  Just wait until you hear this one.


CROWLEY:  Nineteen-month-old Freya Garden died in January of shaken baby syndrome.  She had been left at home with a 13-year-old baby-sitter, while her mother was at the grocery store.  Police charged the baby-sitter with second-degree murder.  They say she confessed to shaking the baby, and today, a Seattle judge dismissed the murder charges. 

Court TV‘s Savannah Guthrie was in that courtroom today and she joins us live with the very latest. 

Welcome, Savannah. 



Well, Savannah, I know you have been covering this case.  Can you walk us through it, bring us up to date, and tell us what really happened here? 

GUTHRIE:  Well, the prosecutors, it seems to me, really built their case on the back of the statement by the baby-sitter, and when the judge threw out those statements, finding that she was in custody, she was being interrogated, that she hadn‘t been read her Miranda rights, the case sort of unraveled from there. 

Without that, they really only had one witness who would really seal the case for them, which is the medical examiner, and if he couldn‘t testify to the exact time really that this child received these injuries, there was no way to really prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the baby-sitter was the one who caused the death of this little girl. 

CROWLEY:  Savannah, I know you were in the courtroom today.  Can you talk to us about the reaction of the baby‘s family to this decision by this judge? 

GUTHRIE:  Yes, you know, I am not going to forget it.  It was very

emotional, and it seemed like all of these emotions really just were at the

boiling point when this case was dismissed.  The mother of this little girl

her name is Morningstar Garden—got up while court was still in session, and she started to walk out. 

And there was a photograph of her little girl on a big poster board, and she just held it up, held it up at the back of the courtroom, wanting everyone to see it, and then she walked out of the courtroom and gave an interview to some reporters outside, where she was sobbing and speaking very loudly.  And you could still hear her while court was going on.  You could hear her outside, just expressing this grief. 

CROWLEY:  What about the baby-sitter herself?  This is a 13-year-old girl.  How did she react today in court? 

GUTHRIE:  Well, when the judge dismissed the case, she started to cry.  And she seemed to be very upset, and her family would tell you, she loves this little girl.  She never meant her any harm.  And they would tell you she never confessed to anything. 

They say that these statements that were elicited by the police were really the product of coercive interviews, suggestive interviews, and that she is 100 percent innocent. 

CROWLEY:  So, on the day of this innocent when this baby was alleged shaken to death, this was not the first time this girl had baby-sat this child, right? 

GUTHRIE:  It wasn‘t the first time, but the weekend before was the first time. 

CROWLEY:  All right. 

Let me bring in now Kathy Van Olst.  She is also joining us now.

And I know, Kathy, that you were part of the prosecution team. 

What happened in court today? 

KATHY VAN OLST, PROSECUTOR:  That‘s correct.  I was.  What happened today was that based on the judge‘s ruling with regard to suppressing the defendant‘s statements, we were unable to proceed in the case and we moved to dismiss. 

CROWLEY:  Were you disappointed? 

OLST:  We were.  I think that—and it was echoed in Savannah‘s statements about the parents as well.  We were disappointed, and yet that‘s the way this process works.  That‘s what this judicial process is all about. 

CROWLEY:  So you disagreed with what the judge did here.  Do you think that this particular judge overreached?  Did she go out of bounds here throwing this case out? 

OLST:  You know, the judge is put in a unique situation in this case, because she gets to be the Monday-morning quarterback.  She gets to decide not only what the police and see what the police thought and heard at the time of the crime, but she gets to go outside that and say, is there anything else that I need to take into consideration in deciding whether or not these statements can come in?

And that‘s what she did.  She heard testimony from a defense expert for about an hour, and even on simultaneous days with regard to additional information that even the police didn‘t have at the time. 

And so, you know, it‘s difficult to say.  She made a very, I am sure, it was earnest and deliberated decision in this case. 

CROWLEY:  Kathy, how is the baby‘s family dealing with this tonight? 

OLST:  I think it‘s very difficult for them to handle the news, not only of the suppression of the respondent‘s statements, but also to understand that the medical examiner‘s testimony did, in fact, change in very critical ways that made it difficult to proceed. 

CROWLEY:  And, also, Kathy, I understand that there‘s double jeopardy that‘s invoked here, so you cannot try this 13-year-old baby-sitter on this same charge again, right? 

OLST:  That‘s correct.  Once we start trial, then we cannot charge her again with this crime. 

CROWLEY:  All right.  And, Savannah, do you believe that this police investigation was sloppy?  Was it poorly done? 

GUTHRIE:  Well, it‘s hard not to come to that conclusion given the judge‘s decision. 

I can tell you, the baby‘s family said it themselves.  They said, this girl, Ashley Howes, should have been treated as a suspect from the get-go.  Had she been treated not with kid gloves, but as a suspect, they would have done what they‘re supposed to do, which is give her those Miranda warnings, advise her of her rights, and get a valid waiver of those rights before taking any statements. 

CROWLEY:  That‘s right, and now this case is officially over. 

Savannah Guthrie and Kathy Van Olst, thank you so much tonight. 

GUTHRIE:  You bet. 

OLST:  Thank you. 

CROWLEY:  And stories of wild sex, drug use, and prostitution on board this party boat.  There you see it.  And at the center of the investigation, star NFL players.  We have got all of the raunchy details coming up.  Don‘t go anywhere.


CROWLEY:  Police are investigating reports that more than 20 members of the Minnesota Vikings chartered this boat last week, I think we have got a picture of it, and that they used it for a wild night of sex, drugs, and possibly prostitution.  The lawyer for the cruise company recounted some of the raunchy details his clients allege. 

“Players were approaching the wait staff,” he says, “telling them that they would be tipped if they danced.  The captains had to step around people who were having sex on the floor.  They were thinking, it couldn‘t be safe out in the middle of the lake.  It was a petrifying scene.”

Well, for more on this out-of-control cruise, here‘s Scott Goldberg with NBC affiliate KARE. 


UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  In the NFL, it‘s hard enough to win when you don‘t have any distractions. 

SCOTT GOLDBERG, KARE REPORTER:  The old Viking ship that stands guard over Winter Park is an appropriate symbol these days for an organization bailing water as fast as it can. 


DAUNTE CULPEPPER, MINNESOTA VIKINGS:  I have no comment.  I would not comment on the whole situation.  I am talking about the Chicago Bears. 

GOLDBERG:  Mr. Culpepper isn‘t talking, but everyone who is not a Viking is, digging for details of alleged sex party that unfolded last Thursday on waters of Lake Minnetonka. 

MARCUS ROBINSON, MINNESOTA VIKINGS:  I have no idea what is going on with that, to be honest with you.  Don‘t even know. 

GOLDBERG:  Sources tell KARE 11 that at least 17 and as many as 25 Viking players were aboard the chartered boats that night. 

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  Were you there thought night? 


GOLDBERG:  The only name tied to the party is Fred Smoot, who boat owners say paid for at least part of the cruise.  The normally chatty defensive back stayed away from his locker today. 

With no criminal charges filed to this point, the quest to identify others has turned into fishing expedition of sorts. 

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  Was I on the boat? 


UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  I have been told no comment.  You know what I‘m saying?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  That‘s the same thing as no comment, right? 

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE:  We have obtained a list with your name on it. 

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  Oh, you all got one with my name?  Somebody must have lied, then.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  Can‘t tell me any of the things that went on? 


UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  The story is correct? 

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  No comment.  I don‘t want to talk about it.  You know what I mean?

GOLDBERG:  To a man, Vikings plays deny the allegations are a distraction as they prepare for Chicago, but, clearly, the scandal is rubbing nerves raw. 

CULPEPPER:  Anybody want to talk about the Chicago Bears and what we got to do to win that game? 

All right.  Thank you. 


CROWLEY:  How many no-comments did you hear in that story from the Vikings?  Well, I am sure we are just hearing the beginning of this story. 

We are coming right back.  Stick around


CROWLEY:  That‘s all the time we have for tonight.  I‘m Monica Crowley, in for Joe. 


Hi, Tucker. 

CARLSON:  Monica Crowley, thank you very much. 


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