Guest: Stephen Doyle, Bill Stanton, Debbie Boyd, Pat Boyd, Pat Brown, Linda Allison
SUSAN MOLINARI, GUEST HOST: And right now on SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY, were some of these people victims of euthanasia as Katrina's waters rushed in? Well, the Louisiana attorney general is now investigating. We are going to have the latest from New Orleans on the stunning allegations of medical mercy killings.
Then the bombshell from Aruba. Could the three suspects in the Natalee Holloway case be rearrested because of what one of them said on tape? We are going to have that and more of our MSNBC exclusive with the new investigator who says he would like to see Natalee's killer finally behind bars.
ANNOUNCER: From the press room, to the courtroom, to the halls of Congress, Joe Scarborough has seen it all. Welcome to SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY.
MOLINARI: Well, welcome to SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY. I'm Susan Molinari.
Joe is off tonight.
Now, we are going to get to those stories in just a minute. Plus, we are going to talk about a family's frantic search for missing 27-year-old Christie Wilson. She vanished over a week ago, last seen on this surveillance video leaving the casino. Now her parents are in SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY asking our help and help from anyone who knows where their daughter might be.
But, first, we are going to go to New Orleans, where reports have surfaced today that some doctors and nurses contemplated and may actually have performed euthanasia in the dark days after Katrina hit. Tonight, the Louisiana attorney general is starting a criminal investigation.
So, let's go live to New Orleans and NBC's Jennifer London, who has been following this story all day.
Jennifer, I started to read the press releases on this. I cannot even comprehend that the stories that we are hearing about what may have gone on, on those days right after Hurricane Katrina hit could actually have gone on. What's the latest?
JENNIFER LONDON, NBC CORRESPONDENT: Well, good evening, Susan.
Tonight, the attorney general's office for the state of Louisiana tells NBC News it is investigating unconfirmed reports that mercy killings may have occurred in New Orleans Memorial Hospital after Hurricane Katrina hit. As part of the investigation, autopsies and toxicology tests will be conducted on the 45 bodies that were removed from the hospital.
The investigation stems from reports that two hospital workers claim they heard discussions about euthanizing patients who some of the doctors and nurses thought might not survive the storm. Now, it is important to note that these two hospital workers are not saying they witnessed any mercy killings, and also, the reports of what they say they overheard have not been independently confirmed.
This afternoon, NBC News did speak with the hospital's chief anesthesiologist, and he says he was at Memorial Hospital during this time frame, and he says although he was not everywhere at all times, he doesn't believe the allegations are true.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. GLENN CASEY, MEMORIAL MEDICAL CENTER: There's a chain, a sequence of events that has to occur, and I would think at some time if that subject was broached and people were seriously discussing that, someone would have brought it to the attention of the medical staff leadership that was present at that institution, so that they could give their opinion on it. And at no time was it ever brought to my attention.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LONDON: And the company that owns Memorial Hospital, Tenet Healthcare, says the 45 patients who died there were critically ill, and all the hospital staff worked tirelessly to save as many patients as possible during and after the storm.
Meantime, Susan, the attorney general's office says they hope to wrap up the investigation within the next two weeks.
MOLINARI: Well, Jennifer, one has to hope, for the sake of the hospital, the reputation, and the people who lost their loved ones, you know, the relatives of those 45, that this investigation will be wrapped up in the very near future. I believe that there's actually a coroner who says the investigators told him that they believe that euthanasia actually did take place. I mean, this is just an absolutely tragic story on top of tragedy.
LONDON: Well, and clearly that's why the attorney general's office is taking it very seriously. And when I talked to them today, they said just that.
They say, look, we are taking these reports very seriously. We are doing a very thorough investigation. We are devoting a lot of manpower to this investigation. We are working on it every day, and they really want to get things wrapped up as soon as possible, but they also say they want to do a very thorough investigation, because, again, the allegations are very serious.
MOLINARI: Jennifer, is it just this hospital where we are hearing these problems, or is this something that occurred in other hospitals in this county?
LONDON: Right now, we are only hearing the unconfirmed reports about the possible mercy killings that may have occurred at Memorial Hospital.
MOLINARI: Well, we are going to stay tuned to follow this story.
Thank you very much, Jennifer London.
Now, the allegations of mercy killings are just part of the mess in New Orleans.
Doug Brinkley, a resident of New Orleans and a presidential historian, joins me now.
Doug, first, what is your reaction to the allegations of mercy killings at this hospital?
DOUGLAS BRINKLEY, NBC ANALYST: Well, if it happened, it's obviously atrocious.
And doctor or doctors who took part or nurses in such an endeavor will be charged with murder, as they should be. There's no—mercy is a pretty word. It's a wonderful Christian word, but we are talking about killing here, even if these people—where euthanasia is also a prettier word. But we don't know yet.
And this is the core, Susan, of what I am angry about right now, is that there's—right now, at a morgue in St. Gabriel, 15 miles from Baton Rouge, there are hundreds of corpses that have come from various hospitals around Louisiana, and FEMA is the organization that is going at a snail's pace to identify bodies.
You know, every time you hear a statistic, it sounds like—there's a human being there. If we lined up 700 unidentified bodies, the federal government is going at a snail's pace. They are working to obstruct the coroners of Louisiana. They haven't allowed pathologists -- 40 out-of-state pathologists have asked to come and help quickly identify these corpses. That's not being allowed to happen, and no outside medical examiners are allowed to come in from cities that have first-rate people, like New York or Dade County, Miami, Los Angeles. Even states like Alabama could come in to help.
So, the Memorial problem, and then when we go to Charity Hospital, where many people were brought in with gunshot wounds, and we need to find an openness and a quickness to find out why these dead in St. Gabriel are not being identified and not being given the proper verdict quickly of why they died.
MOLINARI: Doug, do you think there's some conspiracy here, or is it just incompetence?
BRINKLEY: I don't know. I mean, we have seen plenty of FEMA incompetence, so you want to believe it's bureaucratic inertia, but the problem is, the St. Gabriel facility is being treated—nobody is allowed to come in and see these bodies.
And the U.S. army, we do an incredible job, and I salute our Army, because if something happens on the battlefield or there's a death, we can do 24-hour DNA testing and cause of death that quickly. The president of the United States now, since he has decided to federalize the mortuary process, the morgue, and have FEMA run it, needs to quickly answer not if you can't identify the dead, because there are people that didn't have I.D.s on them. I understand that difficulty.
But we can answer questions like, how many people in the morgue were killed by floodwaters? How many were killed by—that may have been already ill on some kind of machine, electricity went out and they died. How many were killed by gunshot wounds? We need to answer these questions now.
MOLINARI: Do you have any hope based on what you are seeing on the ground that there's going to be answers coming within the very near future? And 700 bodies seems to be a lot more people to go through in a very short period of time, and obviously these families want answers.
BRINKLEY: Well, absolutely.
One great bright light has been Charles Foti, the attorney general of Louisiana. He has been a straight-shooter. He is trying to move the ball forward. All I am asking—and it's what the coroners I have interviewed, and people in the parishes of Louisiana, but also medical examiners will tell you, this process does not have to be so slow. These families wondering, that can't find somebody, can get answers quicker than we are getting them.
FEMA is blocking people from identifying bodies. Why? I don't know. But we have got to bring some consciousness on programs like SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY and others to tell FEMA, move out of the way. Let outside medical examiners come in, and do quick, 48-hour turnarounds on causes of death, and open up the autopsies.
FEMA's teams were trained—they began in 1990s to do recovery of bodies in disasters. They have now taken on the role of autopsies. That shouldn't be their role in this circumstance.
MOLINARI: Doug, I can totally understand your anger, and I thank you for bringing it to our attention, but it's amazing to me that we have not heard from any other state or local elected officials talk about this problem. Are they part of this cover-up too?
BRINKLEY: No, I don't—gain, I don't—saying it's a cover-up. It may just be bureaucratic inertia on FEMA's part. And we have seen all of that, our little turf wars going on.
BRINKLEY: But the coroner, Frank Minyard, has been complaining tremendously about FEMA's behavior, so I am hoping that, in the next few days, that this issue gets looked at.
And we need closure in Louisiana, but we also need truth, and those are the two things that we are after right now, and the closure has to come through getting the bodies identified, having quick autopsies, and letting the bad news get to the families of the dead so they can move on with their lives.
MOLINARI: No doubt about it.
Well, Doug Brinkley, thanks very much for bringing it to our attention in SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY tonight.
BRINKLEY: Thank you.
MOLINARI: Now, as you know, SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY, when Joe is sitting here, has been following the money when it comes to the Katrina recovery.
Tonight, we have got a stunner for you, a housing crisis that is costing taxpayers millions of dollars every single day. Tonight, as we are sitting here, nearly 600,000 Katrina evacuees are living in hotels.
And, as NBC's Carl Quintanilla reports from New Orleans, it's not good for the evacuees or for the taxpayers.
CARL QUINTANILLA, NBC CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's another bus ride home today for 6-year-old Ariel Jackson (ph), living with her family for five weeks at Atlanta's AmeriSuites hotel.
DAPHNE VALTREAUX, NEW ORLEANS EVACUEE: You are not looking for a handout, you know, somebody to give you something just because. But, you know, you do need a little help.
QUINTANILLA: They are part of the biggest one-time guest list in the hotel business. 10 states with at least 1,000 rooms rented, six of them with at least 10,000, and all of it costing FEMA an estimated $11 million every night.
REP. BARNEY FRANK (D), MASSACHUSETTS: I think they are making a mistake by keeping people in hotels, not simply because it's expensive, frankly, but because that's not a good place for families to live.
QUINTANILLA: Here's the problem. FEMA promised it would help empty out emergency shelters, and it has, from 273,000 after Katrina, to just 22,000 now.
But instead of putting evacuees in large communities of temporary mobile homes, nicknamed FEMAvilles, the agency backed off, citing resistance from local residents, meaning Jackie and Gary (ph) Hughes, still living at this Hampton Inn in Texas, will have to choose between spending their FEMA assistance on a new apartment or supplies.
JACKIE HUGHES, NEW ORLEANS EVACUEE: We have to buy clothes, medicine.
You know, I am not working. I don't have insurance right now.
QUINTANILLA (on camera): FEMA officials say their average room rate, $59 a night, is no higher than the one they paid after Hurricane Charley last year and that they are trying to help evacuees move on.
VICE ADMIRAL THAD ALLEN, U.S. COAST GUARD: Right now, being in a shelter or being in a hotel is somewhat a bridge to nowhere.
QUINTANILLA (voice-over): Tonight, the Department of Housing and Urban Development is also under pressure to supply more prepaid housing vouchers to evacuees.
FRANK: HUD's role should be to help people find the apartment.
QUINTANILLA: Which would give families like the Hugheses at a housing fair today, a chance to check out of the hotels that have become home.
Carl Quintanilla, NBC News, New Orleans.
MOLINARI: And when SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY continues, we are going to take you inside the hunt for Natalee Holloway. The new lead investigator says that, in his hunt, all roads lead to Joran, Deepak, and Satish. We are going to hear that and get reaction from Natalee's family.
Then, have you seen this woman? Christie Wilson was last seen on October 5. Now her family needs our help in bringing their girl home.
MOLINARI: Could there finally be justice for Natalee Holloway? We will go inside the investigation and hear from the deputy police chief. You are not going to believe what he says about the suspects.
MOLINARI: The three young men at the center of the Natalee Holloway case could be headed back to jail soon, in part due to what Deepak Kalpoe told an investigator on “Dr. Phil.”
Welcome back. I'm Susan Molinari, in for Joe tonight.
The case of Natalee Holloway is being blown wide open. And it all starts with this. Let's take a listen to the part of the tape that has reignited this longstanding investigation. We are going to listen to Deepak Kalpoe talking to a polygraph expert.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
JAMIE SKEETERS, POLYGRAPHER: I'm sure she had sex with all of you.
DEEPAK KALPOE, SUSPECT: She did. To tell you quite frankly, dressed like a slut, talked like one. Would go in a car with three strange guys and her mother claiming her to be the Goody Two-shoes. Enough of the B.S. already. If I knew where the body is I would tell them a long time ago. Let them start a trial and get this over with. I don't care.
SKEETERS: Sometimes, your closest friends, if they're worried, and this thing is that big, they'll burn you.
KALPOE: I don't have any close friends anymore. They're all gone.
SKEETERS: Really? Because of this?
KALPOE: Everything is empty.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
MOLINARI: Now, it seems that that interview has Aruban authorities very interested. They are currently trying to get their hands on the complete, unedited version and interview.
Now, last night, MSNBC's Dan Abrams spoke exclusively with the deputy chief of police. They spoke about the tapes and what he thinks about the suspects. Let's watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, “THE ABRAMS REPORT”)
DAN ABRAMS, HOST: Do you believe that Joran, Deepak, and Satish were involved in Natalee's disappearance?
GERALD DOMPIG, ARUBAN DEPUTY CHIEF OF POLICE: Well, at this time, I think that all three persons know something that they are not telling, at least not telling us.
ABRAMS: Something about her disappearance?
DOMPIG: Exactly. And I go by the rule of thumb that the first 40 days—I said in a different program, the first 40 days, law enforcement has probably also already spoken to the perpetrators.
So we feel strongly that we have already spoken to them and there's no one else outside this group that could be involved or responsible, so sometimes people ask us that, are you not tunnel-visioned? Maybe you should look at other possibilities. Of course. We did that, but we still feel that every time you go on a path, a different path, that path leads back, comes back to these three boys.
ABRAMS: So you, again, have no other even possible suspects in connection with this case?
DOMPIG: At this time, no.
ABRAMS: And you don't expect to find any more, do you?
DOMPIG: To tell you the truth, that's just from—sometimes it's a gut feeling, as an investigator. I do not think so.
ABRAMS: Do you expect that, at some point in the relatively near future that the three of them will be under arrest again?
DOMPIG: Well, it's very difficult to answer, but let me tell you this. If these boys are guilty of harming this girl, I need them to be behind bars as soon as possible.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MOLINARI: Yes. I think the whole nation here agrees with you on that.
So, what does Natalee's family think about these new developments?
For that, let's bring in Natalee's aunt, Linda Allison, who joins us on the phone.
Linda, thank you for being with us this evening.
LINDA ALLISON, AUNT OF NATALEE HOLLOWAY: Thank you, Susan, for having me.
MOLINARI: Well, listen, we all want to see this resolved as quickly as possible, for all of your sakes. What do you make of that tape that, though—that we just heard with Deepak on it?
ALLISON: Well, I did hear that when it was aired on Dr. Phil's show, and was just so very shocked to hear that news, that Deepak had admitted that the three of them had a sexual encounter with Natalee.
And I am just so very thankful that the prosecuting attorney and the police are asking for that tape. They want to review that tape and make sure it is legitimate. And, you know, of course, we have been saying all along these three suspects were last to have been seen with Natalee, and they do know something, and we just want them to tell the truth. We want that information to get out, so we can find out where Natalee is or what has happened to her.
MOLINARI: So your family has been given indications that this is now a process that's going to speed up and that the authorities are finally going to try and get these three guys to sit down and tell their version of the truth, because, right now, all we have heard, all you have heard is several different stories?
And, again, the last I had heard is that the prosecuting attorney was requesting this tape, and that they are going to be reviewing it, and with guarded optimism. We just hope that they are going to bring them back in for questioning, and hopefully get to the—get to the bottom of this soon.
MOLINARI: Are you encouraged by the renewed attention that's going on right now?
ALLISON: Yes. And any time that there is new information that is being brought forward, and with these being very contradictory statements, with Deepak saying that they were with her that night, that they did have sex with her, and then you hear the interview that Joran gave from Holland, and, you know, in the beginning, he was saying that that was none of anyone's business.
And then later, he does—he even contradicts himself in his conversation that he had during his interview, so many different times, and, you know, there's only one way to tell the truth, and they have been so inconsistent with their statements that you don't ever know what's the truth and what's not anymore.
MOLINARI: Well, that certainly has become obvious to anybody who has been following these developments, but it's got to be encouraging when the deputy chief of police states for the record that the path keeps coming back to these three boys.
ALLISON: Absolutely, and I think that one of the things that I have seen different this week than what we have seen in the past several months is that communication coming from the police investigator, so it's very good and very reassuring to hear these positive things coming from the police investigator's office, that they are looking at this, and they are looking at questioning them again.
MOLINARI: Well, is it possible that this Dr. Phil tape and all the boys' conflicting stories could finally close this case?
For that, we are going to go to MSNBC analyst and former FBI agent Clint Van Zandt and profiler Pat Brown.
Thank you guys for being with us.
CLINT VAN ZANDT, MSNBC ANALYST: Hi, Susan.
MOLINARI: Let's start with you, Clint.
You have spent some time in Aruba.
VAN ZANDT: I have.
MOLINARI: You have talked to these guys, you have talked to Deepak at great length.
VAN ZANDT: Yes.
MOLINARI: Are you surprised that officials are now suddenly—I mean, it seemed like this case went away for a while. We all thought, these guys are really going to get away with this. Are you surprised now that there's this renewed interest, and what is it on the tape that he really said that caused this stir?
VAN ZANDT: You know, I—it's kind of the “I'm from Missouri” type of Syndrome, OK? I mean, I have got to see it before I believe it.
What I—my gut reaction says that what's going on down there is that, in this Dr. Phil tape—and, in fact, I was down there when the polygrapher was there. He and I talked. After I talked to him, I took a run at Deepak. I said, Deepak, would you be willing to take a polygraph exam? He said, well, if my attorney says I can.
I said, good, we will go about arranging that for you. And so, I was trying to set him up for the polygrapher, you know, boom, boom, boom. But when I hear what's going on and see what's going on, you know what I think is driving this, Susan? As much as you and I and everybody want this case solved, and, you know, I sat there and held hands with Beth, and I cried with Beth, and I am empathetic.
I have got children and grandchildren.
VAN ZANDT: As much as this looks like a new cold case review, I think it's the Arubans responding to America, responding to the threat of a boycott.
VAN ZANDT: I think they are saying, let's tell America we will do whatever they think we should do.
MOLINARI: We are still working on it.
VAN ZANDT: So we can keep the tourist dollars rolling in.
MOLINARI: Thinking that, at some point, this is all going to go away?
VAN ZANDT: I think they think—I think the Aruban government is—you know, I have talked to people on the street in Aruba. I said, what do you think happened? They said, oh, we know what happened. Natalee wanted to run away. Her and her mother didn't have a good relationship. Joran van der Sloot simply helped her go to another island.
I said, you can't believe that. They said, oh, yes, absolutely, we do. Well, if that's what they believe, if we hear that the police don't write down all the statements...
VAN ZANDT: ... don't take down the confessions, and even if on this Dr. Phil tape, we have got Deepak saying, yes, we had sex, he doesn't say it was anything other than consensual sex. In a worst-case scenario, you know, you can't indict someone on what another person says. I read a statement from Joran van der Sloot, where he says, Deepak assaulted her, murdered her, and buried her body. You know, we have heard 25 different statements from these kids. Nobody knows what the truth is.
MOLINARI: Well, no, but that's right.
And, Pat, you have profiled these kind of individuals. Is there any one of them that stands out more in the profile of a killer, and that these young kids could sort of sustain this lie for so long? Isn't that kind of frightening in and of itself?
PAT BROWN, CRIMINAL PROFILER: Well, yes, but they are a group in themselves, and we don't understand how their thinking works. We have a bit of psychopathology going on with the entire group.
I listened to Joran. He gave a nice interview for 30 minutes in Holland, and he said—in the beginning of his interview, he said, I am not going to give an interview. I don't want to talk to you. And then I gave a 30-minute interview.
BROWN: So, he starts out by lying. He lies through the entire interview. And what is really fascinating is that he says, I didn't have sex with Natalee, and I didn't do anything with her but kiss her on the beach and sit with her. And her mother knows the whole truth. But there's a lot of truth I haven't told you and I am not ready to tell it.
MOLINARI: Well, right.
BROWN: Well, OK. What more truth could there possibly be?
MOLINARI: And when there's a missing body out there, and the America media is covering this every night.
BROWN: Exactly. Exactly.
MOLINARI: Don't you think you better start spitting it out?
And what is really interesting about this is that Joran has a lot of support from his father, and that leads me to believe that he is the center of this whole thing. He is the one that Natalee was interested in. He is the one that she went with. I just don't believe—he said, I wouldn't cover for my friends.
Now, I think he is right. He wouldn't cover for his friends.
MOLINARI: He'll cover for himself.
BROWN: But I think good friends help friends, and good friends help friends hide bodies.
And my belief has always been these good friends did, indeed, help in a certain way, and they have to cover up now because they are involved, but Joran, I don't believe. If he wasn't involved in something very, very serious, more so than moving a body with Natalee, he would cover for his friends. He would run to daddy and say, daddy, help me; my friends pushed me into this. So, Joran is at the center of this. He knows it. He lies through his 30-minute interview over and over and over again.
MOLINARI: Right. Good point.
MOLINARI: Well, we are going to keep our eye on this one for the family and for all of us.
MOLINARI: Linda Allison, we want to thank you so much for being with us. Our prayers are continuing with our family. And, Pat and Clint, you are going to be staying with us.
BROWN: All right.
VAN ZANDT: OK.
MOLINARI: Coming up, today is Taylor Behl's 18th birthday. Tomorrow, her family has to bury her. We are going to bring you the latest on that investigation into who killed the Virginia freshman.
Then we are going to talk about a Minnesota Vikings party out of bounds. We will bring you details of the raucous boat ride that could sideline some of the players.
MOLINARI: The desperate search tonight for this young woman, last seen walking out of a California casino. Does a middle-aged man hold any clues as to what happened to Christie Wilson? We are going to talk to her parents next.
But, first, here's the latest news from MSNBC World Headquarters.
MOLINARI: Taylor Behl, just starting college, she had everything to live for. Now today, on what would have been her 18th birthday, Taylor's family is preparing to bury her. Tonight, the latest on the police investigation.
Welcome back to SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY. I'm Susan Molinari, in for Joe tonight. That story in just minutes.
She has been missing over one week, and a desperate search continues;
27-year-old Christie Wilson was last seen with a man twice her age at the Thunder Valley Casino in Roseville, California, near Sacramento.
Now, surveillance cameras have captured her leaving the casino with an older man who police are now calling—quote—“a person of interest.” Her family is understandably frantic, and her parents, Pat and Debbie Boyd, are here with us now.
Pat and Debbie, welcome, and thank you so much for being here with us.
Thank you for having us.
Thank you for having us.
MOLINARI: First of all, obviously, our thoughts and prayers are with you, and our hearts breaks for you for what you are going through. Can you bring us up to the latest in terms of what the police are telling you?
PAT BOYD, FATHER OF CHRISTIE WILSON: We know that there was a recent release. They finally released the video showing our daughter walking out with this man.
We are hoping the video, because of the size, the clothing they had on, will spark somebody's memory, so they remember seeing them inside, what they were talking about, where they went to in the parking lot, what car they got into, where they went, and maybe even where they ended up later on.
MOLINARI: Now, Debbie, you know your daughter pretty well, and you think that this is not a runaway. This is not a disappearance that she took on herself. She has been gone for six days, and you have said that you have never gone that long without talking to her.
DEBBIE BOYD, MOTHER OF CHRISTIE WILSON: No.
The longest I have ever gone without talking to her is three days at the most. She was a gal that constantly has a cell phone tied to her hip, and, certainly, you know, we often chatted via cell phone during the commute hour, while driving, and this is very unusual and out of character for her.
MOLINARI: Now, Pat, you are an investigator for the police department in San Jose?
P. BOYD: That's correct.
MOLINARI: Do you think they are doing everything possible to help find your daughter?
P. BOYD: I am actually impressed. I was always worried. You always want to do it yourself. You always want to be the one having your hands on it.
P. BOYD: Everything I have seen that they have done, every effort they have put into it, it's just like it's their daughter, too. So, it means a lot to me, and I think they are doing a great job.
MOLINARI: Now, I don't want to get you guys in trouble, but can you tell us a little bit what you know about how this person of interest, this man that's shown on the video walking out with your daughter, has been behaving with regard to the police interrogation?
P. BOYD: We only know that they have talked to him, and that I don't think he has given a full and complete statement, and I think he stopped talking to them at a certain point. Whether he has asked for an attorney or has one, we are not sure yet, but we know that he hasn't been forthright in everything he said and hasn't given all the information we are dying to get.
MOLINARI: So he has not been forthright. That's the reports that we are getting right now.
P. BOYD: That's the best we know, too. You know, I wish I was in there with him. I wish I could talk to him, too. How much he is holding back is just tearing our family apart, how much it hurts.
MOLINARI: I bet it is.
And, listen, again, we are all here for you, and thinking of you and praying for you, and hope that you find your daughter and that she is well and alive.
D. BOYD: Thank you very much.
P. BOYD: Thank you.
MOLINARI: Thank you for being with us.
P. BOYD: We appreciate it.
MOLINARI: So how do the authorities find Christie? We are going to bring back our star panel of crime experts. With us still is criminal profiler Pat Brown and former FBI agent and MSNBC analyst Clint Van Zandt. And joining us also is Bill Stanton, a private investigator formerly with the New York Police Department.
Bill, I am going to start with you. Take me inside the search. What are they looking for right now?
BILL STANTON, PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR: Well, right now, you have to canvass the whole area. You have to question the casino security. If they were at, let's say, a blackjack table, talk to the dealer, possible people that were around them during the table. We have a very small window of time. From the door, they left at the casino to the car, it was literally seconds when this person disappeared. You have to literally get forensic evidence, if there is any, and sweat—police jargon, sweat this 53-year-old gentleman for answers.
MOLINARI: Clint Van Zandt, you have given me some more information during commercial break that's come out since we started to even work on this story this evening.
VAN ZANDT: Yes.
Supposedly, the suspect, this 53-year-old man, has a black eye and the police are asking him to explain his black eye, and he either can't or he won't. You know, it's like, how did you get it? Did you fall down? Did you slip on the ice? Tell us exactly how. Did somebody punch you? Did you get an elbow? If, in fact, that black eye is new and he can't come up with a reason to explain for the police how he picked that up—and when you look at this video that you are showing right now, you show this—and, you know, Pat and I have been sitting here talking about this. You know, it doesn't—at least from my point of view, it doesn't necessarily look like she is under duress.
VAN ZANDT: I mean, they are talking. They are moving together. So those videos in that parking lot are going to be critical. Does she get in that car or not? If she doesn't, you have got this narrow window of time from the time she walks out. Two football fields away is her car, but if we don't see her going down—I mean, aliens don't grab her, so she either gets in the car with the suspect or he drives away and someone else immediately drives up and gets her. I mean, that's all we are left with.
MOLINARI: So, Pat, if we have got this blank screen, and a suspect, a person of interest that is not talking, what is the best the police can do right now?
BROWN: Well, I think the police are looking at the right suspect, Susan.
It's very interesting if you actually watch her movements coming out of the casino. This is what young women don't understand. It looks to me like she was leaving. This is time for her to leave, and this guy has kind of glommed onto her.
BROWN: He's like, hey, hey, hey, you know, and she is walking out the door, and she is like, yes, yes, yes.
MOLINARI: Not taking it seriously.
BROWN: No. She's trying to be nice, because girls try to be nice, and she is like, yes, yes, yes. And he's like, oh, come on, now. And she's like, oh, no, no, no. She kind of moves away from him as she moves. And he tries to walk, and he kind of moves in on her.
She tries to go away from him. I think she is trying to get away from him, but she is not thinking this is a dangerous situation. She is just going to walk to her car and sort of get rid of him on the way. Women don't realize that oftentimes when they leave a place like this, they are leaving with a predator. It's not so much sometimes that you are walking through the parking lot and the predator jumps out at you. Sometimes even predators will say, let me walk you to your car, so you can be safe from predators, but he is the predator.
MOLINARI: Right. And particularly if you don't know this person before.
So, women need to use their second—that instinct, which says, wait, this guy is creeping me out; let me turn around, go back into the casino, and stay here until this guy is out and then get help getting to the car.
But we hate to be rude, and so girls tend to not do that and they tend to be friendly until they keep walking into danger, and this is I think what happened in the case, and very sad.
MOLINARI: Well, it is very sad, just another sad story here.
MOLINARI: Well, thank you, Clint Van Zandt.
Pat and Bill, please stay with me.
I am joined now by Tucker Carlson, host of “THE SITUATION” WITH TUCKER
What's the situation tonight, Tucker?
TUCKER CARLSON, HOST, “THE SITUATION”: Susan, it's great to see you.
MOLINARI: Good to...
CARLSON: I don't need to tell you what a big week it's been in Washington. You still live there.
MOLINARI: It's been a big week.
CARLSON: Oh, huge.
Karl Rove before the grand jury tomorrow. “the New York Times” reprints all these writings from Harriet Miers, nominated to the Supreme Court today. And they are best described, most gently described as just pathetic. We will debate both of those. Plus, Saddam Hussein goes on trial very soon. Inside his secret world, we will talk to a woman who knows him intimately, grew up with him, and find out what he is thinking and what he is really like.
It's going to be an excellent show.
MOLINARI: They always are, Tucker.
CARLSON: Thank you, Susan.
MOLINARI: Thank you so much.
And, the rest of you, be sure to tune into “THE SITUATION” next at 11:00.
Now, we are back with a heartbreaking day here in Virginia, as Taylor Behl's family prepares to say their final goodbyes. We are going to get the latest on the investigation into her murder. Are police ready to make a move?
Then we are going to go on to tales of public sex, drugs, and prostitution. A cruise gone wild could land some professional athletes in a boatload of trouble tonight. The cruise company tells us the sordid details.
MOLINARI: Today would be her 18th birthday. Unfortunately, her family held a viewing for her instead in her hometown of Vienna, Virginia. Taylor Behl will be buried tomorrow, just a week after her body was found in a rural Virginia field. Police say their prime suspect is 38-year-old Benjamin Fawley.
Now, for the latest on the investigation, we are live to Ray Daudani, a reporter for WWBT in Richmond, Virginia.
Good evening, Ray.
RAY DAUDANI, WWBT REPORTER: Good evening, Susan.
I can't even imagine the emotions that must be going through the minds and hearts of Taylor Behl's friends and family tonight. As you said, should be her 18th birthday. They should be celebrating, and, instead, having to go to the visitation today and knowing, in just about 12 hours, she will be put to rest as they have funeral services up in Vienna, Virginia, tomorrow morning.
And you would hope that this would provide them with some kind of closure in this case, but unfortunately, we still don't know how or why Taylor was killed. You know, just about two months ago, she was still living at home in Vienna, very excited to come down to VCU, the school That she had chosen to come to because of its urban campus, and then just two weeks later, she comes to school. She goes home for Labor Day, sees her mom, sees her dad, says bye to both of them, that night disappears, is gone for a month before anybody finds any signs of her, and then her skeletal remains found out in Mathews County scattered all about that field there.
And I think the question now that police investigators are trying to find out is exactly what is the cause of death. They have sent that body over to the medical examiner's office on October 5, and it stayed there up until just a couple of days ago, and, unfortunately, according to my sources, all of the initial investigations done by the medical examiner's office couldn't yield any definitive clues as to how Taylor Behl died.
And the problem that they have now is because these remains are so skeletal, because it was such a wide crime scene, because they were so scattered, they are not sure that any of the tests that are still outstanding are going to give them any definitive cause of death in that case, which causes two problems, first, of course, for the investigators and the prosecution, trying to move the manner of death as homicide, the cause of death, whether this was a shooting, whether she was strangled, whether anything—if she was beaten or anything else along those lines, and then, secondly, for Taylor's friends and family, establishing that closure of knowing exactly how she was killed and what the motive was in all of this—Susan.
MOLINARI: Well, thank you, Ray Daudani.
Now, if the medical examiners, as Ray has said, cannot pinpoint cause of death, can authorities prove that this was a murder?
Now, let me bring back our criminal experts. We have criminal profiler Pat Brown and private investigator Bill Stanton.
Thank you both for sticking around.
Bill, Ray raised a great question. If you can't pinpoint a cause of death, can the authorities go on to prove that there was a murder that took place here?
STANTON: Well, absolutely.
First, my sincere condolences to the Behl family. What you have to do is build a circumstantial case.
That Mr. Fawley saying he was kidnapped and mugged and then dropped off during the hours of her missing or of her disappearance is the definition of prime suspect. What you need to do once again is get all the evidence that you can. Question ex-girlfriends, friends about his history, where his motive went to, and try and get enough or try and get him to slip up, where you can get enough evidence to convict this gentleman of murder.
MOLINARI: Now, let me go to you, Pat, because it seems to me, and, Bill, jump in on this, to those of us who don't have the knowledge that you do, I mean, clearly there is a lot of circumstantial evidence on this guy, and yet he has not been, you know, taken in yet. The police seems to—it seems to me, sitting back in my living room, this is taking way too long based on what they should have on him.
BROWN: Well, in this case, Susan, he is already in custody. He's in custody for child pornography. They know where he is. They know they have got him contained.
MOLINARI: So, they can afford to take their time to develop a case.
BROWN: They can take all the time they want. And they are being very smart.
They're going to cross all those T's, dot all those I's, because they do have a very circumstantial case, a heck of a lot of circumstantial evidence that says, this is ridiculous; the guy is obviously involved in some way, and they are going to make sure they have—build the biggest case they can.
As far as the homicide issue goes, it's been reported that she has been found in a shallow grave. So, all—there's that issue there, where you do not put yourself in a shallow grave.
BROWN: So that makes it a homicide. How she was killed is another issue. When you have soft tissue damage, for example, in strangulation or suffocation, you don't often have that.
But if they can prove that it was a homicide and that everything, every piece of circumstantial evidence points to Fawley, they have got him cold. And I don't think you are going to get a real sympathetic jury on this one. So I think...
MOLINARI: Bill, is Pat right? Are they going to get this guy?
STANTON: Oh, she is 110 percent right. It's screaming for conviction in this case. I mean, this gentleman, he is not a brain surgeon by any stretch of the imagination. I think they are going to definitely get this guy.
MOLINARI: All right, well, let's hope so.
MOLINARI: Thank you, Pat Brown and Bill Stanton.
Now, some guests at a Minnesota Vikings party are calling for a flag on the play, illegal use of hands, just the start of the allegations of out-of-bounds activities.
The raunchy details next.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAUNTE CULPEPPER, MINNESOTA VIKINGS: I have no comment. I would not comment on the whole situation. I am talking about the Chicago Bears.
MARCUS ROBINSON, MINNESOTA VIKINGS: I have no idea what is going on with that, to be honest with you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I have been told no comment.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But were you on the boat?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's the same thing as no comment, right?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sex? What are you talking about? Is that what—man, that's crazy.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No comment.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The story is correct?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No comment. I don't want to talk about it. You know what I mean?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MOLINARI: Well, I guess it was no comment all around in the Minnesota Vikings locker room after allegations of a wild sex cruise aboard this boat and possible criminal activity. So what exactly happened on the boat? I don't know that I want to know.
But here to talk about that is Stephen Doyle, the attorney representing the boat owners.
Mr. Doyle, what exactly do your clients say happened on their boat that night?
STEPHEN DOYLE, ATTORNEY, AL & ALMA'S CRUISE COMPANY: Well, good evening to you.
Al & Alma's is the name of the organization. It has been around about 50 years, owned by the Geyen family, fantastic folks.
Here's what happened. A cruise was set up with a couple of boats, a couple days in advance by couple of folks with the Vikings. Done totally routinely, paid for scheduled, looked at the boats, talked menus, talked which boats, examined the ones that were best for the tour. People showed up. They were about an hour late, but notice had been given to the cruise. It's supposed to be an 8:30 one. About 10:00, quarter to 10:00, 10 to 10:00, the first went out. Another one followed about 10, 12 minutes later, 20 minutes later, because some people were late.
Went out. And the first few minutes of it were pretty routine. People were getting lots of drinks. And the music was started. And then...
MOLINARI: Something went wrong.
DOYLE: Well, crew started to see people undressing and changing clothes and showing up on the deck where the guys were with thongs, and I am not sure you would call them bras, but there were things that they described like them, pieces of material that covered something, or not, and then—and I am not trying to be flip and glib. It was pretty astounding.
Then dancing started, and the dancing was pretty intensive physically, and not too far after that, of course, we are talking about a long period of time, people started to engage in parts of the boats in various sexual activity.
MOLINARI: Are your clients going to be pressing charges against any of the players or the team itself?
DOYLE: It's a great question.
We have nothing to do with pressing charges. Police are investigating it. I spent today, four or five hours, with members of the crew at my office, meeting with police, doing individual interviews. Yesterday, we met for two or three hours with the police doing a group interview. I have been advising the crew they can help or not help, talk or not talk, and they are all stepping up, just doing an amazing job, saying, you know, it's our job to—it's our duty to help the police.
The police are investigating aggressively. They are going to do what they are going to do. And if they produce stuff that creates charges, they will go to a prosecutor. If they don't, they don't. We are just simply trying to cooperate with them. I have talked to the Viking management and said, here are the names of people we have identified so far that were on board that were Vikings, absolutely not associating at that time any particular behavior to those names—we are still ferreting that out—and asked them to cooperate and work with us and do their own investigation. We are just trying to help.
MOLINARI: But we are kind of laughing at this story, but the truth is that there obviously were some pretty bad things that went on here that your clients and the people who were working on this cruise felt somewhat threatened by the atmosphere of what was going on.
DOYLE: Now let's be really clear. We are not laughing at all here, and not only somewhat threatened.
The most serious concern for the owners of this wonderful organization of Al and Alma's was the crew, and picture this. They are doing their work. They are intensely out in the middle of the lake serving drinks and doing what they are supposed to do. Very high demand. This is not a passive event for them. And then they encounter not only the physical activity that's occurring, but they inquire people yelling at them for booze. They inquire people trying to serve their own drinks.
They inquire—they encounter people saying to them, look, why don't you dance for us like these people? I will pay you money.
MOLINARI: Yes. Oh, boy.
DOYLE: It's astounding.
MOLINARI: That is astounding.
Well, thank you, Stephen Doyle, for being with us and telling your side of the story. We appreciate it.
DOYLE: You take care. Have a nice evening.
MOLINARI: Yes. You do the same.
And we will be right back.
MOLINARI: So, if you have any examples of Katrina waste or outrageous spending that you think we should know about, send Joe an e-mail. The address is—what is that—Joe@MSNBC.com.
MOLINARI: Well, that's all the time we have for tonight. I'm Sue Molinari, in for Joe Scarborough.
I'm going home and locking my two small daughters in the house for the next 20 years, based on what I have heard and seen on this show.
“THE SITUATION WITH TUCKER CARLSON” starts right now.
CARLSON: Thanks, Susan. I hope, when you get home, you will also turn on the show.
MOLINARI: I'll be watching.
CARLSON: It's worth it. Thanks.
MOLINARI: I'll be watching.
CARLSON: Thank you.
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