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'Scarborough Country' for Oct. 18th

Read the transcript to the Tuesday show

Guests: Jamie Hyneman, Adam Savage, Dennis Farrell, Pat Boyd, Debbie Boyd, Ivan Golde, Jim Moret, Mickey Sherman, Pam Bondi, Harvey Levin

CATHERINE CRIER, GUEST HOST:  Right now in SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY, new details in the murder of the lawyer‘s wife.  Are police closing in on a suspect?  We will talk to close friends of Daniel Horowitz to go inside the investigation.  Is there a tie to the murder case he was trying?  Plus, who is the mystery neighbor? 

Then, mystery on millionaire‘s row, a woman found dead just yards away from the house some say inspired the Great Gatsby.  Now we will talk to the investigators and get to bottom of the case that is terrifying Long Island‘s Gold Coast.

ANNOUNCER:  From the press room, to the courtroom, to the halls of Congress, Joe Scarborough has seen it all.  Welcome to SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY.

CRIER:  Thanks for being here tonight.  I‘m Catherine Crier.  Joe is off.

We are going to have those stories in just a moment.  Plus, we will be tracking Hurricane Wilma throughout the hour.  Forecasters are saying Wilma could be Category 4 by the time it hits the Gulf of Mexico.  It may hit Florida.  We will have that.

And about 61,000 people have been killed by natural disasters this year.  Is this an alarming new trend?  The end of the world?  Global warming?  Well, the MythBusters are here, and we will ask them. 

But, first, the question of who killed Pamela Vitale remains a mystery tonight.  Was she killed because her husband, Daniel Horowitz, was defending accused murderer Susan Polk?  Did a disturbed caretaker commit the crime, or was it just a random act of violence?  In June of this year, Horowitz sought a restraining order against Joseph Lynch, a caretaker who livid on the property, claiming Lynch had drug, alcohol and behavior problems.

Well, attorney Harvey Levin of the Web site spoke with Lynch today.

And he joins us now.

You had a pretty interesting conversation with this man, and he is adamant about his innocence, correct? 

HARVEY LEVIN, EXECUTIVE PRODUCER, “CELEBRITY JUSTICE”:  Yes, Catherine, absolutely.  He said that he doesn‘t need an attorney because he didn‘t do anything.  I will give you the headlines on this guy.  He told me that the cops have interviewed him several times. 

He has given them voluntarily a hair sample, and he will give any other DNA sample that they want.  He is confident that he will not be ultimately charged.  He admits to me—he says, look, I am a suspect, even though the police haven‘t said he is.  He calls himself a suspect.  He said, look, I have had problems with erratic, violent behavior in the past, when I had alcohol and drug problems, he said, but I am cured of that now, thanks, he says, to Daniel Horowitz.  He said, Horowitz actually helped get him in a drug rehab program after this encounter last June, where Horowitz had gone to court to get this restraining, claiming that he was borderline violent. 

Now, the other thing that is really interesting to me, Catherine, is, when I asked him about animosity toward Horowitz, his response was—and I am going to quote—“I am not going to go into reasons I should have animosity.”

And I said, well, that‘s interesting.  Why should you have animosity?  And he responded to me—quote—“A lot of people get pissed off if they get an eviction notice.”  And, indeed, Daniel Horowitz did try and evict him from this property that he was living on.  He was living on Horowitz‘s property.  But he adamantly says he did not kill this woman. 

CRIER:  All right.  What about the investigation?  It‘s one thing to talk to this man.  It‘s another thing to ask him for a polygraph, to search his body, his person, because of the defense wounds found on Pamela, or to even ask him about the polygraph, these sort of things.  What has he done about all of that? 

LEVIN:  It was an odd conversation, Catherine, because, at a point, he would say I don‘t want to talk about anything.  And then he would start volunteering things.  And then, when I would ask about it, he just wouldn‘t talk about it. 

So, pretty much what I told you is what I got in terms of what was substantive.  What is interesting is, you know, I said to him, did you have any animosity toward her, toward the victim?  And he said, absolutely not.  He said, I have never had a problem with her.  He said he saw Horowitz two weeks ago, and Horowitz got down on the ground and patted his new dog. 

But he said he has not only no animosity, but—and, again, this is kind of an interesting quote.  He said that he wanted to take her place, and become the victim.  And he said, he doesn‘t mind getting crappy with a man, but he will not tolerant violence, even verbal abuse, toward a woman.  And he said he felt horrible about what had happened.  So, that‘s pretty much what he offered me, didn‘t talk about an alibi, didn‘t talk about a polygraph test, and didn‘t talk really about anything else other than insisting that he was innocent. 

CRIER:  What about other people living in the area?  Obviously, he lives there.  He knows something about neighbors, people who come and go. 

LEVIN:  There are other neighbors who live around there, and, indeed, at one point, Catherine, he did say to me—he started talking about another neighbor, and basically insinuating that that‘s a person who police really need to focus on, and had said that police had interviewed some of these neighbors.

And I said, well, why should police focus on that particular guy?  And then he said, you know, I don‘t want to get into mud-slinging.  I am just saying there‘s somebody there that they need to focus on.

So I don‘t know what that is.  I don‘t know who that is, but I do know that there are neighbors in that area.  He called the access to the property ridiculous.  He said, lots and lots of people had easy access to that property.  But it‘s very hard to get to in the first place.  But apparently once you get to it, it wasn‘t difficult to enter. 

CRIER:  All right.  What about conversation with cops or anyone involved in the investigation, Harvey?  Have you gotten any information about the extent to which they have gone through the house, they have gathered forensics, they have checked his home, these kinds of standard things? 

LEVIN:  What I can tell you, and this is based on a conversation with a cop there, is that this was a horribly brutal killing.  This was not just a knock to the head.  This was vicious. 

And, you know, a lot of people would characterize this as a rage killing, somebody who really harbors great animosity towards somebody, but beyond that, the cops are officially saying nobody is officially a suspect.  And, indeed, there was a false report on the news yesterday that this caretaker, Joe Lynch, had been arrested.  Lynch says the cops actually went to his property yesterday to tell him, look, we didn‘t publish that erroneous information. 

Whoever said that said it on their own, and he says they actually came to him to apologize. But the cops are saying, nobody officially is a suspect in this case. 

CRIER:  Well, after the Olympic park bombing, we don‘t even use the word suspect anymore, after the lawsuits out of that.  I can understand. 

Well, Harvey, if you will stand by just a second, I want to bring in two legal experts, defense attorney Mickey Sherman and Florida prosecutor Pam Bondi. 

Mickey, this crime, in listening to the initial descriptions, very bloody, what seems to be very violent.  We might jump to conclusions, but some might say, it sounds like a crime of rage, which means some sort of personal association, if not with Pam, possibly with Dan. 


I know that‘s the way it‘s been described, and I agree with Harvey that it sounds like a rage killing, but I have to believe that this is in the end going to have nothing to do with Dan‘s profession, with the case that he is trying, or anything about his practice of law.  I think this is going to be some random act of violence by some nut.  And I don‘t think it‘s the caretaker.  He sounds like a genuine crackpot. 

CRIER:  Oh, OK.  Genuine crackpots don‘t count. 

OK.  Well, you say random act of violence.  Normally, though, with an instrument they haven‘t found yet that we know of, the murder weapon, you have got a bloody scene, that at least according to a quote from Dan Horowitz yesterday, looked like it had been cleaned up; now we are finding information, I learned earlier today, that whoever was in the house may have taken a shower in the house.  None of that sounds like, gee, a burglar who ran in and ran out. 

SHERMAN:  What I am just saying is the person—it may be a serendipity type selection, like the Manson family.  OK?  They killed Sharon Tate and those people simply because they were living in Doris Day‘s son‘s house, who had once not given a movie deal or something to Charles Manson. 

Look at Bill Cosby‘s son‘s murder.  Everyone thought it was somehow some big drug deal.  It turned out to be a guy who just wanted to steal his Mercedes-Benz.  Sometimes—criminal defense lawyers, believe it or not, are people, too, and we experience the same ups, the same downs, and we can be victims of crimes just like anybody else.  It doesn‘t mean it‘s tied to our profession. 

CRIER:  OK, Pam, I don‘t know about necessarily tied to the profession, in the sense that it was a former client, but this to me does not—and I have been wrong before, I will be wrong again—does not sound like, gee, a random act. 

PAM BONDI, FLORIDA PROSECUTOR:  No, and, Catherine, it doesn‘t at all, especially because the property was so isolated.

I mean, it makes no sense that randomly someone could come up there. 

They had a large fence around it.  I mean, you would have to know the area. 


CRIER:  Two German shepherds. 

BONDI:  The German shepherds, absolutely.

And although Dan Horowitz says they weren‘t mean dogs, they may have known—it could have been anybody who knew the area, exactly, someone who was familiar with the family.  And, you know, the part about the rage, to explain to everybody, the rage means, if it‘s a random burglary, typically, what you see as a prosecutor, as a defense attorney, or as a judge is when someone—if it‘s a burglary, they are going to come in and hit them once, just to disable them, so they can commit the crime. 

And if this crime scene is as horrible as we have heard it is, that she was struck repeatedly, then that does mean rage and anger and violence against her, not just to disable her to commit a crime. 

CRIER:  And let‘s listen to—I will read to you a couple of quotes from “The San Francisco Chronicle” as to what Dan Horowitz has been saying.

He said: “I did not do it.  I would never hurt her.  She is one of the sweetest people you would ever want to meet.  If I‘d been home, I would have won that fight.”

Mickey, let me ask you about that quote first.  A lot of people know Dan in this business.  We have all interviewed him on many occasions, strikes me as a very, very sweet man.  Any way you see him involved in this? 

SHERMAN:  No.  No.  I mean, I know Dan.  I know him from doing the shows and spent time with him on the Peterson case. 


SHERMAN:  It just seems so unlikely.  Then again you never know what happens behind closed doors.  But I can‘t imagine Dan Horowitz being a murderer, by any stretch of the imagination. 

CRIER:  All right, and here‘s another very sad thought.

He says: “I‘m never going back there again.  It‘s the most beautiful place alive, but all I see is her face.  I just want them to catch whoever did this.  She was the love of my life.  I just wanted to grow old with her.”

I mean, Pam, certainly there have been defendants, you know, ultimately, convicts, convicted of these particular crimes that would say things like that, but we are hearing stories about them finding themselves a bit later in life, building their dream home.  And they were going to put a vineyard up there.  All of this supports the notion that Dan Horowitz is not involved in this. 

BONDI:  Absolutely, Catherine.

He is acting—he is.  He seems just like a victim‘s husband you would imagine would be.  And everything we have seen in the past—and, in fact, what he is saying is, let the police do their investigation.  Interview me.  Take my DNA.  Whatever I can do to cooperate.  I mean, the man is distraught.  He has lost his best friend, and that‘s exactly how it appears. 

And you know, initially the police should consider him a suspect, because he is her husband, and then what they do is rule him out, and move on to a list of anyone else who could have animosity towards them.  And I think that‘s why this other man, Lynch, is a person of interest right now, because of the restraining order, because of a history of violence. 


BONDI:  And that‘s what law enforcement is doing.  They are looking at everybody they should, and they shouldn‘t officially name a suspect...

SHERMAN:  Sure. 

BONDI:  ... right now, because they have so many people to interview. 

CRIER:  Well, I think they‘re going to have some very interesting forensics.

But we have got a very interesting interview as well coming up.  I want to thank our Harvey Levin, Mickey Sherman and Pam Bondi. 

Stay with us. 

Now, we are tracking another major storm tonight.  Hurricane Wilma has already killed in the Caribbean.  Now she is headed for us, and we have got the very latest coming up. 

And she was last seen walking outside a casino—tonight, the very latest twist in the search for Christie Wilson, what police are trying now to help find her.

Stay with us. 


CRIER:  It‘s the town that inspired the Great Gatsby.  But now is this haven for the rich the scene of a baffling murder?  The latest, including exclusive details, coming up.


CRIER:  Well, attorney Daniel Horowitz was defending accused murderer Susan Polk when Jim Moret from “Inside Edition” visited the scene of the Polk killing with Horowitz.

Jim is here to try and help us make sense of all of this. 

Jim, welcome back to SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY.

JIM MORET, “INSIDE EDITION”:  Thank you, Catherine.  Good to see you. 

CRIER:  You have talked to the woman who was the focus up until Saturday, and that is Susan Polk, charged with murdering her husband, Felix Polk.  What was her reaction to the events this weekend? 

MORET:  Well, I talked to her twice.  Today was the second time I have had a jailhouse interview with her, and at first she said she misunderstood the report and thought that Daniel and his wife were both victims, and she initially thought that it was her case that was the spark for this violent act, and, frankly, it‘s something that concerns her a lot. 

She said something very interesting.  She said, she is very concerned about her children‘s safety.  She has three sons.  She said, she never thought she would have to be concerned about the safety of her attorneys.

And earlier today, prior to speaking with her, I went up to the Polk house and talked to Eli Polk.  That‘s her middle son.  That‘s the son who is going to testify on her behalf, because, on Saturday, Eli believes somebody attempted to break into the house.  He called the sheriffs on Sunday when he noticed that a screen was askew. 

They came up.  They fingerprinted the entire area, and then even questioned Eli about the Daniel Horowitz—his wife‘s murder. 

CRIER:  All right.  Well, the police I think are obviously considering everyone, but there are a lot of ancillary players in the Polk murder case, and including immediate family members, that have really been caught up in this. 

As you describe, Eli is going to testify for his mother, as I understand, basically, that dad planned to kill mom. 

MORET:  Right. 

CRIER:  On the other hand, his younger brother is going to testify that mom planned to kill dad.  Is there any sense at that all authorities are looking closely at some of these people in Pamela‘s murder? 

MORET:  I think that we have heard from the other guests.  The police have to look at basically everyone.  You look at the access to the property.  There was a gate to the property, but there was construction going on.  There was a note at the gate that tells you the combination. 

So there are a lot of people who had access to the property, but as you mentioned, this case, very controversial case, because you have a woman, who, at the age of 15, seeing a 40-year-old therapist, they have a sexual relationship, then become married.  They have three children.  And now one of them is dead.  Obviously, there‘s a lot of tension in this family.  The family has been split apart.  There are a lot of players that are involved. 

I think the sheriffs, the police, have to look literally at this wide net that has been cast, at all of these arms to see where are there links to this particular case. 

CRIER:  All right.  I want to bring in Ivan Golde now with us.  He‘s not only a very close friend of Daniel Horowitz, but he‘s also the co-counsel in the Susan Polk case. 

Ivan, before we move to Dan and Pamela, what about the Polk children in particular, some of the family members around there?  Do you know whether investigators have talked with them yet? 

IVAN GOLDE, CO-COUNSEL OF DANIEL HOROWITZ:  Well, I have firsthand knowledge of that because I sat right across the table when the Contra Costa County sheriffs asked Eli Polk various questions about his involvement.  And we welcome that.

On behalf of Dan Horowitz, we applaud what the Contra Costa County Sheriff‘s Department is doing.  And Eli Polk was more, more than willing to accommodate any questions they had, so, yes, that did occur, and I sat there and watched that. 

CRIER:  Did authorities tell you to watch your back?  If they are concerned that this might have come out of the case at all, should other people now be concerned? 

GOLDE:  Yes, I have been warned.  I have been warned to be careful and to watch out, and I am doing so, but it goes with the territory, and so there‘s nothing I can do. 

I mean, I am going to live my life and work for Susan Polk.  I can‘t be afraid, but I am being careful.  That‘s what they told me.  Be careful. 

CRIER:  All right, you obviously are following the investigation moment by moment.  And you certainly have got, I am sure, your own suspect list.  Do you think that they are honing in on someone? 

GOLDE:  I think they are.  I think they are taking their time.  I think they want to make sure what they get sticks.  I think they want to have all their cards turned up. 

I think, when they make an arrest, they want to make sure that person stays in custody.  And I think they are doing an outstanding job.  They don‘t want to make any mistakes.  That‘s the key.  They don‘t want to make any mistakes.  Everything has to be proper and above board.  That‘s why they are taking some time, in addition to the fact they have to send the forensics out to various labs. 

They are doing a great job.  Dan is cooperating with them.  They are cooperating with Dan.  And this person will be brought to justice, Catherine. 

CRIER:  Has anyone been polygraphed or asked for a polygraph and refused? 

GOLDE:  Again, it would be inappropriate for me to release that kind of information.  I cannot talk about anything like that. 

All I can say is the police have interviewed many, many people.  And they are putting forth all of their resources into solving this case. 

CRIER:  And what about forensics?  What do you know has gone to the lab?  We are hearing reports about possibly a perpetrator took a shower.  You have got the shower trap, towels, obviously, the immediate crime scene itself. 

GOLDE:  Yes. 

CRIER:  Do you have any sort of listing of information? 

GOLDE:  Well, all I can say is this.  It appears the crime scene had been cleaned.  It had been cleaned, evidence removed, the crime scene cleaned. 

But, again, with modern forensic techniques, they will find evidence, trust me, Catherine.

CRIER:  Yes. 

GOLDE:  Evidence will be found.  It‘s just a matter of time. 

CRIER:  All right.  Well, certainly watch your back, if that‘s been the advice.  Be careful.  And you know our condolences and our very best to Dan Horowitz and Pamela‘s family. 

GOLDE:  Thank you. 

CRIER:  All right, Jim Moret, Ivan Golde, thanks very much. 

Coming to SCARBOROUGH tonight, now you are looking live at Los Angeles International Airport, our country‘s number one gateway to Asia, where officials are scrambling to come up with a plan to quarantine hundreds of passengers to prevent the spread of the avian bird flu.  While confirmed in at least 10 countries, the bird flu has killed at least 66 people.  The question on everyone‘s mind, when it reaches the U.S., will we be ready? 

Well, joining me now is Dr. Bernadine Healy, MSNBC analyst and former director of the National Institutes of Health. 

Doctor, I am going to be real candid.  I have someone very close to me who is in the government working on this pandemic.  I will tell you right off, it‘s my belief that we are not ready and we won‘t be ready if this is anywhere near the immediate future. 

DR. BERNADINE HEALY, MSNBC ANALYST:  I think you are quite right, Catherine.

And I think one of the important things is, the public has to understand that.  They have to be prepared for the fact that we are not ready.  We are talking a lot about preparing.  We are talking about vaccines, but the reality is, there is no human vaccine.  We don‘t have antivirals, and people aren‘t focusing on what it will be like to be sick in a time of pandemic.  Will our health system be able to help them? 

CRIER:  And I think you know the answer to that, because if we are talking about more than about 100,000 people, and we are talking about sickness, if not death, exceeding that by a multitude, our medical community would be entirely overwhelmed almost immediately. 

HEALY:  Well, that‘s right, Catherine.

We have built a health care system that is certainly the finest in the world, but it has no surge capacity.  We don‘t like reserves.  States will not allow hospitals to—quote, unquote—mothball excess beds.  We are supposed to have 95 percent occupancy.  As a result, we don‘t have the reserves that we need, not just in beds, but particularly in intensive care unit beds. 

Catherine, if you are sick with this flu, if you look at the people who have been affected in Asia, the 120 or odd people who—the 120 or so people who have been sick, the 66 who have died, what you see is a very, very serious condition in which young people are affected.  People need respirators.  People go into coma.  They go into shock.  They are intensive care unit patients who need monitoring, who need specialists. 

We don‘t have the surge to handle it.  And that means, when this hits this country, where we have highest expectations that people will recover from whatever illness, we are going to see things that we have never seen before.  In fact, a colleague of mine at the American Hospital Association said, Americans are going to see what it‘s like to be practicing 1950s medicine. 

CRIER:  Well, 1950s at best case. 

Real quickly, three big things you would insist the government do now if they were listening to you. 

HEALY:  Well, we certainly have to release our pandemic plan.  The final pandemic plan has not been released.  It‘s been released in other countries.  We haven‘t seen it yet.  We have to build up the stocks of the Tamiflu, and we have to do it quickly.  We are way behind other developed countries.

And we absolutely have to pay attention to our hospitals, taking care of people who are sick.  Do we have the intensive care unit beds, the respirators?  Do we have blood reserves?  Do we have a safe blood supply in that time?  And, very important, do we have the doctors and the nurses and the health care people who will be protected and ready to serve?  Are they going to be able to be there, away from their families?  Are they going to be equipped and knowledgeable on how to take care of patients who are very different from other flu victims? 

CRIER:  Well, experts across the board are telling me it‘s not a matter of if; it‘s a matter of when.  I think we need to heed these words. 

Dr. Bernadine Healy, thank you. 


HEALY:  Without being frightened.  Pay attention. 

CRIER:  Yes.  Absolutely. 

All right. 

She vanished just over two weeks ago, and, tonight, the latest on the desperate search for Christie Wilson.  Next, we will talk live with her parents to get an update.

And we are tracking Hurricane Wilma, the latest storm in what‘s been a devastating 2005.  And is something different happening this year?

Well, we will be right back to find out.


CRIER:  Hurricanes like Katrina, along with earthquakes, mudslides, and floods, more than 60,000 people killed by natural disasters this year, and Wilma is expected to make landfall this weekend.  What is going on with Mother Nature?  That‘s coming up. 

But, first, here‘s the latest news from MSNBC World Headquarters. 


CRIER:  Hurricane Wilma is gaining strength as it heads for the Gulf.  It‘s already turned deadly in the Caribbean.  Now it‘s a Category 2.  Where is it heading?  We will have the latest. 

Welcome back to SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY.  I‘m Catherine Crier, in for Joe tonight.  And we will have that story in just minutes. 

All right.  I am sitting in for Joe this evening. 

And we are now going to the case of Christie Wilson.  There were other gamblers playing cards with her the night she vanished after leaving a casino with 53-year-old Mario Garcia.  Detectives are getting nowhere with Garcia.  They want to question other players at Wilson‘s table that night. 

Joining me to talk about it are Christie‘s parents, Pat and Debbie Boyd.

Thank you both so much for joining me. 

Debbie, before we get to the people they‘re still trying to look for, question.  This man is now being held on some weapons charges, but under a $1 million bail.  That‘s a lot of money.  It says to me the cops know a lot more about this man.  Have they told you anything? 

DEBBIE BOYD, MOTHER OF CHRISTIE WILSON:  We have some information, but certainly based on what I think they deem to be the risk associated with Mario Garcia, the bail has been set appropriately. 

CRIER:  All right.  The risk associated, well, just finding weapons, that would not be the normal monetary—now, he was convicted of something 25 years ago.  He has a prior conviction, but I also understand that they think he has been questioned about similar events, similar to the disappearance of your daughter.  Do you know anything about that? 

D. BOYD:  Catherine, that‘s correct, dating all the way back to 1979. 

Back in 1979, he was involved in what appeared to be a kidnap and rape.

Somehow, the charges back in that point in time had been reduced, the kidnap and rape dismissed, which, based on some further investigation, seems to have been unfortunately kind of a slip within the criminal justice system. 

And we now have information that tells us that Mr. Garcia has had multiple instances of victimizing women. 

CRIER:  Oh, boy.  Well, I understand you were in court.  You wanted to see his face.  Your thoughts. 

D. BOYD:  Well, you know, I was fully prepared.  Obviously, I had seen his picture. 

What was really surprising today Catherine, though, was his demeanor.  Certainly, a man that comes across like he did in all of the—at the casino, you know, real kind of arrogant, Mr. Big, his demeanor was completely the opposite.  Not sure if perhaps in talking to his attorneys, his demeanor today was somewhat staged, but certainly was very odd.  He seemed to be like the poor little victim guy.  It was surprising. 

CRIER:  Yes, right. 

All right.  Pat, you have had—have you had a chance to see the videotape in the casino?  Obviously, we have all seen the videotape in the parking lot.  Do you see any additional information that authorities can work off of? 

PAT BOYD, FATHER OF CHRISTIE WILSON:  I watched the video quite a bit, the seven hours of video they had.  And there‘s different pieces of information, at least photos are the people they were playing cards with.  Hopefully, they will be released soon, so the statements that were at the table will come out. 

But you can see his cockiness, his mannerisms, and they are not like he was in court today.  He was definitely a different person in the courtroom than he was at that casino. 

CRIER:  All right.  Christie had been to the casino before.  Do you know how often she would be there?  Do you have any sense whether or not she had ever met this man before? 

D. BOYD:  I have—I can answer that. 

He—this would have been the very first time she had ever met Mario.  And in terms of frequency of visits, that is something that I don‘t know how often, frankly, that she had visited the casino. 

CRIER:  All right.  When is the last time that either of you had a talk with her? 

D. BOYD:  Last time I spoke with her was the Tuesday evening that she was seen at the casino.  I had had a conversation with her about 5:00, between 5:00 and 5:30 that evening.  And she was very, very excited about an upcoming final round of interviews for a new job in the Berkeley area on Friday. 

And I understand from other friends that they too had heard from her, and—same day—and, you know, again, very excited about this upcoming interview. 

D. BOYD:  Pat, have authorities told you anything about when forensics will be coming back?  I know that they have been testing materials in Garcia‘s car, and they have got some preliminary results. 

P. BOYD:  That‘s correct.  And they have a large amount of different pieces of evidence they have sent on different dates.  So, because of that, it comes in at different factors, so we are just waiting on pins and needles ourselves to hear the answers.

And, of course, during this time period, there‘s other cases in the lab at the same time.  We are trying to push and I am asking all my friends there to do it as fast as possible.  At the same time, we want to make sure it‘s done right, so it‘s one of those hurry-up-and-wait-type situations that is just driving us nuts. 

CRIER:  Well, in terms of the search, they have had dogs out; they have been doing ground searches.  Any information about targeted areas or any information that the public might be able to help you with if you told them what to look for or what to do? 

P. BOYD:  Well, I think the main thing is look for is places that you would park a car close to, probably only carry—again, you are talking about having to carry individually by yourself somebody who weighs probably 140 pounds.  How far could you carry them; where could you hide them?  Something like a drainage ditch, something like underneath, something within 30 to 60 feet of a roadway. 

I don‘t expect her to be carried any further than that.  And I know something it would be something that they could conceal, whether it would be bushes, in a shed, under something.  So, if they are hiking somewhere, or they‘re fishing somewhere, please look.  Anywhere you think that she could be hidden, please help us look for her. 

CRIER:  All right. 

Well, I want to bring in Mickey Sherman and Pam Bondi.

Mickey, I understand there‘s another bail hearing on this guy on Monday.  It sounds like the cops have plenty of other information, other than busting him for illegal weapons at the time they entered his house. 


BONDI:  Yes, that would be great if he...  


P. BOYD:  The Placer County Sheriff‘s Department itself. 

CRIER:  Mickey, can you hear me? 

BOYD:  Yes. 

The bond is probably too high, but it ain‘t going down.  If anything, it will go up.  It seems certainly if he is not the bad guy, he is a very convenient target, just the video seeing him go away with her. 

The problem is—and I preface this by saying, your heart goes out to the parents.  You just want to cry for them, but, unfortunately, sometimes in these cases, we just kind of get hung up on the wrong guy because he is the most convenient person.  We saw that in the, what, Pamela Smart (sic) case in Utah.  The fellow who died in prison, we were all certain he was the guy.

And then, lo and behold, she shows up with that nutcase.  So, I hope this is the guy.  And I hope he confesses, but sometimes the most convenient target is not the right person. 

CRIER:  All right. 

Pam Bondi, though, Taylor Behl, we just had Ben Fawley confess on this thing.  It was an accident, he says, but sometimes the obvious guy is the right guy. 

BONDI:  Yes, sure is, Catherine.

And we know here is that this was the last person to see her.  they have him on surveillance tape.  And when prosecutors get a high bond like that—and it happens quite frequently when you have a—here again, we have a person of interest, not a suspect yet, and what prosecutors do is come in and keep it very factual, just what Mrs. Boyd just said, everything that they know about this guy and his past, and it‘s OK for them to say, and he is the last person to have seen her, and he is on tape.

And, you know, what he has done now is, he has said that she did not get in his car.  So what he has done is if any forensic evidence comes up in his car, there‘s no innocent explanation for that.  So I think it‘s just a wait and see right now. 

CRIER:  And, Pam, when you are talking to the judge on a bail hearing like that, that is going to come up on Monday, it‘s all right, then, for the judge to consider in the past he has been interviewed about similar instances, although he had never been charged, arrested, any of that business.  The judge can take that in, in setting the high bond? 

BONDI:  You know, defense attorneys always argue against that, but you have a lot more discretion in a bond hearing.  You can absolutely say, you know, Your honor, he has been arrested for this.  However, he was not convicted.  He has been charged with this in the past.  However, he has not been convicted.  As long as you keep it very factual as to what happened. 


SHERMAN:  And it sure helps that we are talking about it on TV. 

BONDI:  ... especially the prior weapons conviction.


SHERMAN:  You can‘t overlook the fact that this judge‘s decision is going to be second-guessed by all of us here on every cable news network. 

CRIER:  Well, that‘s absolutely true.


BONDI:  And it‘s a risk.

CRIER:  But these are all factors that ought to be considered. 

And I want to certainly Mickey and Pam.

But, also, Pat and Debbie Boyd, if there‘s anything we can do, please, please keep us posted on this.  All right.  Thank you all very much. 

Now I am joined by Tucker Carlson, host of “THE SITUATION WITH TUCKER


Tucker, what is the situation, sir? 

TUCKER CARLSON, HOST, “THE SITUATION”:  Judge Crier, well, many situations and many more details tonight about the CIA leak investigation.  It looks like it‘s about to explode over the White House.  Here are just two of the details we are going to reveal tonight.  It looks like Joe Wilson and his wife, Valerie Plame, may file a civil suit against the White House.  More details on that, and there may be a Secret Service in the White House cooperating with the federal prosecutor looking into it. 

Plus, we are going to have a police chief, Seattle police chief, calling for the legalization of heroin, crack, and crystal meth.  We are going to bat that around.  It‘s going to be good. 

CRIER:  I‘m going to be watching. 

CARLSON:  Oh, yes.

CRIER:  Thanks, Tucker.

CARLSON:  Thanks, Catherine.

CRIER:  And, everybody else, be sure to tune into “THE SITUATION.” 

It‘s next at 11:00. 

OK, a murder mystery in one of the most exclusive areas in New York.  Next, the latest on a baffling case, a young woman‘s body found amongst million-dollar mansions.  We have got exclusive new details.

And Hurricane Wilma, just the latest in a year of devastation.  Nature‘s wrath has killed more than 60,000 people.  What is causing the carnage?

We will tackle that coming up.


CRIER:  Scenic Long Island is known more for its high-priced mansions than for grisly murders, like the one that took place there this weekend. 

The murder of 24-year-old Lisa Parisi has stunned one of the country‘s wealthiest communities.  The woman‘s bludgeoned body was found in Sands Point, New York, the inspiration for the book “The Great Gatsby.”

So, what could have happened in this peaceful community of mansions? 

Well, joining me now is Lieutenant Dennis Farrell with the Nassau County Police Department. 

Lieutenant, this is a real puzzlement.  The body was basically dumped outside of this mansion.  You figured out who this person is.  I understand her full name is Elisabeth, but she goes by Lisa Parisi.  But you can‘t tie her into the area.  What is the latest? 

LIEUTENANT DENNIS FARRELL, NASSAU COUNTY POLICE DEPARTMENT:  Well, the investigation—obviously, a big part of the investigation was getting Ms.  Parisi identification.  We have now done that.  We are moving on, as we do in many cases, researching her family, friends, background, see what activities she might have been involved in. 

To this point, we are still not able to really answer the big question:  How did she somehow find her a way from Mastic Beach, which is approximately 70 miles away, to the north shore of Long Island in Sands Point? 


FARRELL:  And that‘s part of the big question. 

CRIER:  Yes, we have got a map up here, because Sands Point is about 50 miles away from her home in Mastic Beach, as you said.  And that‘s where her body of course was found, in Sands Point. 

One is absolutely on the other end of the island, so what are the people in her home area, Mastic Beach, telling you about her? 

FARRELL:  Well, we have had detectives out all night, all over Long Island, in communities between Sands Point and Mastic Beach.  We are interviewing a lot of family and friends. 

At this time, we are not really prepared to start going into her personal life or her relations, as that is part of this ongoing investigation.  It would be a little premature to start releasing details. 

CRIER:  OK.  Well, WNBC has already been reporting that, back, I believe it was July of ‘05, 31st, she was arrested for stabbing a guy by the name of Edgar Sanchez (ph) in the arm, the chest, and the face, a guy from Guatemala, has got an arrest record of his own.  Anything about that relationship? 

FARRELL:  Nothing I wish to discuss now.  And I am not trying to be difficult. 

CRIER:  Sure.  No, I understand. 

FARRELL:  She was arrested back then, and it was the fingerprints from that event that enabled us to positively identify Ms. Parisi today. 


FARRELL:  All her relationships...

CRIER:  Oh, I apologize.

FARRELL:  I‘m sorry. 

CRIER:  I was going to say, there are a lot of questions about whether she worked as an au pair, may have worked in one of the homes.  To what extent have you moved around that extraordinarily wealthy community asking about her? 

FARRELL:  Well, we have been in the community obviously since the time the body was discovered, and there‘s no indication at this point in our ongoing interview of the family and friends that she was ever employed in the Sands Point area, whether it be as a nanny, au pair, or anything else, or in the neighboring communities of Fort Washington, Roslyn, Flower Hill, so that is still somewhat of a mystery, as to why she would be in that area. 

CRIER:  All right.  She has got two children, one young one, very young, four months old.  Do you know who the father is?  Is that someone that you have talked to yet? 

FARRELL:  We have spoke to the father of one of her children.  And we know where both children are tonight.  They are both safe and well cared for. 

CRIER:  All right.  And, finally, I understand she was killed only about 13 hours before, I believe, she was discovered.  I assume, then, you might have some forensics to work off of at the crime scene itself? 

FARRELL:  There was limited forensics at the crime scene, all of which we think will help us eventually when we try to identify and arrest the suspect in this. 

The time of death, as you said, could have been in the 13-hour window from the time she was found to the previous evening.  But there‘s a number of avenues we are exploring and we are going to continue to explore, in addition to these interviews we have been conducting.  And we are hopeful that we are going to bring a resolution to this case. 

CRIER:  All right.  Well, as you find out more information, we will certainly try and stay in touch. 

Lieutenant Dennis Farrell, thank you, sir, very much. 

FARRELL:  Thank you.  Good night. 


We got a major weather story developing tonight, Hurricane Wilma hitting the Caribbean.  She has already turned deadly, and we will have the latest.  And Wilma comes during a year where natural disasters, like hurricanes and floods and earthquakes have killed more than 60,000 people.  What is going on? 

Stay with us. 


CRIER:  Hurricane Wilma already claims its first victims.  As many as 10 people died in Haiti when the hurricane hit, triggering deadly mudslides.  Wilma may turn toward Florida‘s Gulf Coast, could become a powerful Category 4 when it strikes land this weekend. 

Weather Plus meteorologist Bill Karins is here to bring us the latest


BILL KARINS, NBC METEOROLOGIST:  Got some new information just in from the National Hurricane Center. 

And Wilma is intensifying just about as fast as a hurricane can.  You can see clearly, look at the middle of this storm, the pinpoint eye has formed on Hurricane Wilma.  The new update just in, 110-mile-per-hour winds.  This is almost a major Category 3 storm.  All it needs is five more miles per hour.  And it will easily do that tonight. 

Pressure has dropped all the way down to 945.  We got a very strong Category 2 on the verge of Category 3.  And some new changes, not really with the forecast track, but with the intensity.  We are expecting a Category 4 storm as we go throughout tomorrow, and then as we go through Thursday, staying a category 4.  It may even peak for a short time at the remarkable Category 5‘s type storm once again. 

Now, this will affect the intensity as the storm heads through Florida, as we go through Saturday.  We are now expecting a landfall as a major Category 3 for the first time somewhere within the coastline of  Florida or possibly Cuba.  And this fast-forward speed could mean even Category 2 status going through Miami as we go throughout Saturday evening.  We will give you the latest here on MSNBC and Weather Plus as we go throughout the next couple of days. 

CRIER:  We will be staying tuned.  Bill Karins, thank you very much. 

Well, if Wilma hits land, it will be the 12th hurricane to strike the U.S. this year.  Is something in the air or the water, or is this normal? 

Well, joining us now is Jamie Hyneman and Adam Savage.  They co-host Discovery Channel‘s “MythBusters.”

Are we in some sort of wild cycle, Jamie, or have the heavens just opened up and going to swallow us? 

JAMIE HYNEMAN, CO-HOST, “MYTHBUSTERS”:  Well, all I have to say is that we didn‘t do it. 


CRIER:  I don‘t know. 


CRIER:  Give us an idea.  There are some people that say there are these 30-, 40-year cycles, wild weather.  Some say it‘s global warming.  Some say it‘s just happenstance.  What are your thoughts? 

HYNEMAN:  Well, the cycles that have happened in the past are—that‘s correct.  The difference as to what‘s happening now is, the rate of change is much faster, so you can‘t really say that it‘s just another cycle.  It‘s happening way quicker than it ever happened before, and they can correlate the rate of change with our use of fossil fuels and other types of things like that.

So, you know, we are seeing an increased—I think we have increased about a degree-and-a-half over the last 30 years in temperature, and there is a correlation between increased temperature and storm activity. 

CRIER:  All right. 

So, Adam, that sounds to me like increased temperature, fossil fuel use.  This is global warming we are talking about. 

ADAM SAVAGE, CO-HOST, “MYTHBUSTERS”:  Well, it certainly seems to be like global warming, but I should point out that Jamie has got a degree in Russian, not meteorology.  And I have got a high school diploma. 

I mean, most of what we do is blow stuff up on television, and we would love to build a hurricane-proof car.  We are looking forward to actually seeing if you can drive a straw through a palm tree with 180-mile-per-hour winds, but we are not experts in this field. 

CRIER:  Well, without being experts, though, most of us are trying to divine the same sorts of information, and what we are hearing is that this isn‘t just cyclical.  Can you tell whether the intensity levels and the number—we are talking about in the last 12 months, a quarter-of-a-million people killed through these sorts of natural disasters.  Are we going to look forward to a lot more of this? 

SAVAGE:  Well, there‘s definitely evidence to show that the Earth has gone through drastic weather cycles like this before. 

As to the argument about whether it‘s global warming, there is just that, a lot of argument about it, although it does seem, from what Jamie and I have both read, to be very easily correlatable to the rise in temperatures, easily correlatable to the—our current use of fossil fuels, ever since the beginning of the Industrial Revolution. 

CRIER:  Yes, they say revenge of the dinosaurs. 

Well, Jamie, what about our own life patterns?  It seems that people in every major country live close to the coast, live in areas that are susceptible to this sort of thing.  Do we also play a bit of a role in that fashion? 

HYNEMAN:  Well, I think it‘s correct that we are seeing a lot more harm come to people because they are living near the coast.  So, you know, in earlier times, when they weren‘t as heavily populated, the coasts, these storms wouldn‘t have as major of an effect as they are now. 


HYNEMAN:  And we are really seeing an increased pattern of storm activity.  This...

CRIER:  All right. 


CRIER:  Well, I will tell you what, we are going to have to go.  But we are going to have to keep watching this storm and maybe many others. 

Jamie Hyneman, Adam Savage, thank you very much. 

We will be right back.


CRIER:  For the latest on Hurricane Wilma, stay with MSNBC and  MSNBC Weather Plus meteorologists are tracking this storm around the clock.

We will be right back.


CRIER:  That‘s all the time we have for tonight.  I‘m Catherine Crier, in for Joe.

“THE SITUATION WITH TUCKER CARLSON” starts right now—Tucker.



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