IE 11 is not supported. For an optimal experience visit our site on another browser.

'Scarborough Country' for Oct. 21st

Read the transcript to the Friday show

Guests: Ken McLaughlin, Bruce Gerstman, Allison Wilkes, Ken Stabler, Mike Shula, Beth Holloway Twitty

JOE SCARBOROUGH, HOST:  I will tell you what.  We don‘t have Stevie Wonder here.  But we have got the best students in the world.  We have got (INAUDIBLE) behind us.


SCARBOROUGH:  An incredible night.  It‘s a “Roll Tide” special edition of SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY.

Welcome to SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY, no passport required, only common sense allowed.

ANNOUNCER:  From the press room, to the courtroom, to the halls of Congress, Joe Scarborough has seen it all.  Welcome to SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY.

Live from the University of Alabama, here is Joe Scarborough. 

SCARBOROUGH:  All right. 



SCARBOROUGH:  What a show, I will tell you what.  You know, there is just something about that song.  Absolutely love it. 

SCARBOROUGH:  You know, I‘m sorry, friends.  This is kind of personal. 

I‘m back home at a place I love, Tuscaloosa, Alabama, graduated here, 1985. 


SCARBOROUGH:  We have got a great show ahead.  We appreciate you being here tonight.

And it is great, because so many people came out to see us tonight, we are going to have a special show, plenty of Alabama throughout the show, but also much, much more. 

We are tracking the path of Wilma.  We are going to take you to Mexico, where it is hitting right now, and Florida, as my home state prepares for yet another hurricane.  That‘s coming up later on in the show.

And, today, Natalee Holloway would be here on campus.  She should be celebrating her 19th birthday.  We are going to be talking to her mom, Beth Holloway Twitty.

Went to Birmingham last night, had a really, really moving hour with her.  We are going to be showing you some of that interview tonight.

But, first, tonight, a great honor to be joined by a guy that I actually went to school with.


SCARBOROUGH:  He is Alabama football coach Mike Shula.

Mike Shula, come on up. 

You are a rock star, man, a rock star.


CROWD:  Shula!  Shula!  Shula!  Shula!  Shula!  Shula!  Shula!  Shula! 

Shula!  Shula!  Shula! 

SCARBOROUGH:  You know, I‘m sure they would be doing this if you were 0-6.  Maybe.


SCARBOROUGH:  You‘re a loved guy, beloved guy.

But, you know, the thing that I always notice on the sidelines is, you are always so calm.  We are screaming in the stands.  We are hoarse.  And you‘re sitting there just taking it all in.  Is that because your dad?  You grew up around football?  You grew up in these high-pressure situations and just know it‘s part of it? 


MIKE SHULA, UNIVERSITY OF ALABAMA FOOTBALL COACH:  Well, I think you need more cameras. 




SHULA:  If you talk to my coaches about how I was during the course of the game, I think the cameras are just a little bit late. 

But, actually, this year, I think I have been a little more emotional. 

I was last year.


SHULA:  And I think I got myself in a little bit of trouble. 

But it has been a great year so far. 


SHULA:  But we got a lot of work ahead and obviously tomorrow is going to be a big day for us. 

SCARBOROUGH:  Now, you coached in football, NFL football, for over a decade, what, close to 15 years, right?

SHULA:  Fifteen years, right at it.

SCARBOROUGH:  Obviously, your dad, the legend of NFL football.  So you grew up around the NFL, but talk about the difference between the excitement in the NFL and the excitement on a college campus, when you are coaching, let‘s face it, kids. 


SHULA:  For sure. 

Well, I defended the excitement of the NFL for years.  I used to—I grew up in the Orange Bowl watching the Dolphins play and saw some older guys and how they used to get ready for games. 


SHULA:  Bob Kuechenberg.  And it was just—I thought that was an awesome atmosphere. 

But coming back to my alma mater and the excitement here on campus and Bryant-Denny Stadium, there is nothing like it.  And there‘s nothing like football in the South, and there‘s nothing like the third weekend in October. 

SCARBOROUGH:  Nothing like it. 

Now, you are a Miami guy.  There had to be some culture shock when you first came to Tuscaloosa.  I‘m from Pensacola.  They call that the Redneck Riviera. 


SCARBOROUGH:  And this is still different for me.  What is it like growing up...


SCARBOROUGH:  What‘s it like—what‘s it like coming from Miami to a place like Tuscaloosa, Alabama, and being successful the way you have been? 

SHULA:  Well, they—you know, they took me in.  They adopted me right away.

And my roommate for four years, Kurt Jarvis (ph) from Birmingham, nose guard here, he‘s probably pretty popular amongst this group.  But they did.  They adopted me.  And it was a little bit different for sure.  I always thought that my high school friends were going to be a lot different from my college friends and until I got married, and they all came together.


SHULA:  And it really was a common bond.  And that‘s what I kind of try to relate to a lot of our kids that we are recruiting, not just—obviously outside the state, but down in South Florida and some other areas.

SCARBOROUGH:  Talk about perspective, because, again, I think you probably have it, because you grew up at the very top in the NFL.  And you saw what it was like up there. 

A lot of guys take over college programs and think, if I just take this shortcut or that shortcut, I can win a championship and maybe get to the NFL.  But you seem to have a great balance, obviously, some problems at Alabama until you got here.  You have turned it around.

How to you balance that?  How do you have a program like you have and still keep perspective and know that, in the end, it is about building character, instead of just winning championships? 

SHULA:  Well, you are around a bunch of young men.  And I have been taught from a long time—for a long time—how important it is to surround yourself with good people.  And hard work pays off and doing things right eventually is going to pay off. 


SHULA:  And I have got a great staff.  Obviously, when I got here, I had no experience as a head coach, had no experience as a college coach.

And guys like Joe Kines, our defensive coordinator, David Rader, Sparky Woods are the guys that I all—that I lean on a lot.  And we talk a lot about—to our players about doing things right and how important that characteristic is, because, eventually, you are going to win with good people.  And I think we have seen a little bit of that this year.  And, hopefully, we will see some more.


SCARBOROUGH:  And that perspective gives you patience to go through the tough times, still not take the shortcut, say, we do it right.  We build character in these young men.  We are going to win. 


SCARBOROUGH:  That‘s what happening, huh?

SHULA:  Yes, for sure, because we have been through some tough times and we have had our character built a little bit.  And we don‘t want to build any more character. 




SHULA:  But it does.  I think we are better because of some of the experiences we have had. 

And, again, it is a lot of fun with these young guys that are going through some of their most impressionable ages of their life and being a part of that. 

SCARBOROUGH:  I already know the answer before I ask it, just like when I ask politicians questions, but I‘m going to ask you this anyway.  Got a prediction for tomorrow? 

SHULA:  Oh, gosh. 


SHULA:  We are going to show up. 



SCARBOROUGH:  OK.  Good to see you.  All right.  There we go.



SHULA:  Thanks a lot.

SCARBOROUGH:  Great to see you.  Appreciate it. 


SCARBOROUGH:  All right. 


SCARBOROUGH:  Obviously, a very popular guy around here. 

And you know what?  We don‘t see it enough in college football, where you have somebody that is more interested in building character in kids than just winning championships, very, very important. 

Now moving on to a serious story that is happening right now off of Mexico, Hurricane Wilma is slamming into Mexico and expected to hit Florida coming up next.  And, obviously Florida, Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana, we have seen too much of hurricanes over the past year-and-a-half. 

With me now with the latest on the storm is Bill Karins.  He‘s from NBC‘s Weather Plus. 

Hey, Bill, what is the very latest right now?  I understand this is already a killer storm, killed over a dozen people.

BILL KARINS, NBC METEOROLOGIST:  Oh, Joe, and, unfortunately, that number is going to go up. 

The damage that is going on in Cancun right now is going to be comparable to what we saw with Rita and Katrina, because this storm, Category 4, not even moving, northwest wind at three miles per hour right now.  So, this storm just isn‘t moving. 

I want to show you the latest radar out of Mexico, courtesy of the government down there.  This is the northern eyewall.  This is the center of the storm.  Cancun is on that strong northeast side of the storm.  And Cancun has been going through that northern eyewall for six straight hours. 

Just imagine the Mississippi coastline after the damage with Katrina going through that eyewall for six hours.  It only lasted about an hour on the coast of Mississippi.  This is six straight hours in Cancun with wind gusts up to 160 miles per hour.  And the storm isn‘t supposed to move much this evening.  Luckily, it will slowly weaken. 

This is a 12-hour motion of the storm.  It‘s moving, it‘s moving, and then it just sits and stalls out here over the last six hours, just to the north of Cozumel.  And that keeps Cancun in the worst portion of the storm possible.  That storm surge, usually it moves in and then it moves out.  Well, it hasn‘t moved out.  It has moved in.  And it just continues to move in there right around Cancun. 

As far as Florida is concerned, we are still concerned with the possibility of anything from just a tropical storm to maybe at most a Category 2 hurricane.  That‘s why we haven‘t let our guard down completely.  The Hurricane Center is saying Category 1, but they wouldn‘t even be shocked if this was a category 2 at landfall.

The areas of concern is pretty much from Tampa southwards.  If anything, a lot of our latest computers have been saying it is going to be little further up the coast, between Naples and possibly Fort Myers.  And, all of sudden, that brings that high populated area from Tampa to Orlando, that I-4 Corridor, into the picture and many more millions of people. 

The good news for Florida, if it makes landfall, let‘s say, at 4:00 on Monday, like the Hurricane Center is saying, then it leaves and it is gone by 10:00 p.m.  Unlike the Yucatan, this will be a fast-moving storm, only about six hours worth of damage here across the Sunshine state.

And then, of course, we are going to be watching the computers.  Right now, the furthest one to the north is south of Tampa and Orlando.  Furthest to the south is in the Florida Straits.  But you kind of notice the Naples area, right in the middle of all these lines.  That‘s why we are very concerned with them. 

Further up the coast, we are still concerned that we could possibly be watching a tropical storm affecting Outer Banks of North Carolina.  And, Joe, we could even see for the first time in many, many years a tropical storm making a landfall in southern New England.  We haven‘t ruled that out yet. 

SCARBOROUGH:  I will tell you what.  It is a storm—nobody can predict where it is going.  Thanks so much, Bill.  Greatly appreciate it. 

Let‘s bring in NBC‘s Michelle Kosinski right now.  She is live in Fort Myers Beach, Florida, where they are preparing for the storm to hit. 

Michelle, talk about the preparations that are going on down there.  Obviously, a lot of people let their guards down, but after the last year or two of storms...


SCARBOROUGH:  ... nobody is taking any hurricane for granted.  What‘s going on in South Florida? 

KOSINSKI:  Yes, you have that right.  And you just heard Bill say right now, this Category 4 storm, winds about 140 miles an hour, slamming into Cozumel.  And it is like likely to stay there, in the Yucatan Peninsula for a good 15 hours, if not 24 more hours. 

So, that shows you just how far away we are from this storm.  But what surprised people who live here is how early preparations got started.  They haven‘t seen anything like this before.  Now, granted, nobody knew just how slowly Wilma would be crawling along, but usually you see preparations about two days out. 

This time, Wednesday, that‘s when people got motivated.  They went out.  As of yesterday, several gas stations starting running out of gas.  Several did.  Long lines at home improvement stores, reports of people vying over the last items of some types.  And that makes people nervous. 

When you see everybody else preparing a big way and you are not, it kind of motivates you to get out and do something. 

This has also put local governments in a tight position, because, after Katrina, of course, nobody wants to be the one who hasn‘t prepared early enough.  But, then again, if you issue the evacuations too early, and they are not needed, people get irritated and complain.  So, there‘s really a fine line.

And tonight, in fact, we are seeing mandatory evacuations ordered.  They will go into effect tomorrow afternoon, especially for these vulnerable barrier islands along the West Coast, including where we are right now, Fort Myers Beach, also south of here, and the mandatory evacuations will also be for all people living in mobile homes. 

Also tomorrow, just in this county alone, we will see eight shelters open up.  And keep in mind, only about 50 miles north of here is Punta Gorda.  That was pretty much ground zero for Hurricane Charley last year, a Category 4 storm.  That area got hit so hard, there is still damage there. 

And, in fact, Joe, it was very sad this morning, the front page of the local newspaper, a big picture of a family outside of some FEMA-provided trailers, showed a little boy crying, his head in his hands, and his mother talking about how stressed out he still was.  So, it really hit home, showed people that people are still suffering from the storm one year ago.  And now they could get hit again—Joe.

SCARBOROUGH:  And that really is the toughest part of this story. 

Thanks so much, NBC‘s Michelle Kosinski.  Greatly appreciate it. 

And, friends, you know, that‘s the thing.  People that haven‘t been around hurricanes don‘t understand.  The storm hits.  It takes you about a year to rebuild.  Then another hurricane comes through again.  It is just so difficult, so difficult to put up with that. 

But, anyway, we are going to be coming back to Alabama after this break. 


SCARBOROUGH:  We are going to be talking about a person who should be here this week.  And that‘s Natalee Holloway.  That‘s coming up.

Also, we are going to be talking to NFL great and Alabama great Kenny Stabler when SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY returns. 

Stay with us. 


SCARBOROUGH:  Coming, Beth Holloway Twitty is going to be talking about what she thinks really happened the night Natalee disappeared.  It‘s a moving interview that you‘re not going to want to miss—that coming up, with much more, when SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY returns live from Alabama.


SCARBOROUGH:  Hey, welcome back to SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY.  We are live from my alma mater, the University of Alabama.


SCARBOROUGH:  A big game tomorrow against the University of Tennessee. 

If you really want to understand SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY, middle America, then come to a game, whether it‘s in the Big 10, whether it‘s in the Southeastern Conference, an amazing atmosphere here.

And you have got people, not only from all over the state.  You have got people from all over the country here. 

We will say hi to a couple of people here.

Hey, what‘s your name? 

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  Justin Wood (ph). 

SCARBOROUGH:  Where are you from? 

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  Oxford, Alabama. 

SCARBOROUGH:  Oxford, Alabama.

What‘s your name? 

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  Nathan James (ph). 

SCARBOROUGH:  Nathan (ph), where are you from? 

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  Warner Robins, Georgia. 

SCARBOROUGH:  All right.  Let‘s move over here.

Now, Dreamland Barbecue, tell me about it.  Nothing like it, huh?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE:  It is the best barbecue anywhere. 

SCARBOROUGH:  Yes.  What is your name? 


SCARBOROUGH:  Anna (ph), where are you from?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE:  I‘m from Homewood, Alabama.  I‘m a student. 

SCARBOROUGH:  You‘re a student.  What year are you? 


SCARBOROUGH:  Oh, junior year.

All right. 

Well, I will tell you what.  Everybody here is having a great time. 

And I can tell you that, last night, I went to Birmingham.  I talked to Beth Holloway Twitty, talked about some things that were tough for her, because her daughter should have been here tonight.  Her daughter actually got a scholarship to the University of Alabama, but went down on a senior trip, as you know, went down to Aruba.

And her mother, I am telling you, it is an amazing story.  Beth Holloway Twitty is not going to stop.  She‘s not going to give up her fight.  She is going to get justice for her daughter Natalee, if it is the last thing she does. 


SCARBOROUGH:  And she told me last night in an amazing interview, you know, if I have got to fight for the next 50 years of my life, I‘m going to do it. 

I want to play you some of that interview that we had last night at the Holloway-Twittys‘ house. 


SCARBOROUGH:  Do you have any birthday memories, anything, like her 18th birthday?  What saw she doing on her last birthday?

BETH HOLLOWAY TWITTY, MOTHER OF NATALEE HOLLOWAY:  Probably her 16th birthday, because that‘s when you do the car. 


HOLLOWAY TWITTY:  And I think that one was probably the most special. 

And it probably is to all parents. 

SCARBOROUGH:  What do you remember about the 16th birthday? 

HOLLOWAY TWITTY:  I don‘t think I can do it. 

SCARBOROUGH:  Any parent with children knows that they spend all this

time getting their children ready to go off to school


SCARBOROUGH:  And that was robbed from you, apparently by three young men, who are now on the loose.  How do you deal with that? 

HOLLOWAY TWITTY:  You know, Joe, I think back to the judge.  I think back to Judge Rick Smit.  And I think that he chose the suspects‘ rights over the victim‘s rights in this case. 

And it is hard for me.  And I‘m sure it is hard for everyone that has stayed with us in this investigation.  And, you know, we see it so clearly, what they have done.  And you know, I just—I just can‘t imagine why he would feel—why this judge would feel the need that for Joran to continue, to begin his study in college.  He felt like it—he needed to get—he needed to move on with his life and he needed to begin and not miss his college days. 

I just can‘t imagine a judge placing a suspect‘s rights over a victim, just so he can begin college. 

SCARBOROUGH:  You have got these three—again, these three prime suspects.  And you have got one of them that has actually said some very unkind things about your deceased daughter. 


JAMIE SKEETERS, POLYGRAPHER:  I‘m sure she had sex with all of you

DEEPAK KALPOE, SUSPECT:  She did.  To tell you quite frankly, dressed like a slut, talked like one.  Would go in a car with three strange guys and her mother claiming her to be the Goody Two-shoes.  Enough of the B.S.  already. 


SCARBOROUGH:  Do you believe that him admitting that all three of them sexually took advantage of Natalee that night, do you think that is going to end up getting him back in jail? 

HOLLOWAY TWITTY:  It has to.  It has to. 

SCARBOROUGH:  And if it doesn‘t, what are you going to do? 

HOLLOWAY TWITTY:  I think that Aruba knows the choice, that if it doesn‘t. 

They now have the tape.  As we speak today, the taped evidence from Deepak Kalpoe is in their possession today.  So, they need to go ahead, analyze it.  Whoever needs to do it, whether it‘s someone in the Hague, find out its credibility.  And they need to utilize it and they need to issue new—they need to—it should—it should warrant the re-incarceration of all three of them. 

SCARBOROUGH:  I understand that Natalee‘s dad is down in Aruba right now.  What is he doing? 

HOLLOWAY TWITTY:  He is.  And they are really concentrating searches, of course, in the water.  And I think that they are focusing.

You know, they have a radius that they are focusing in.  And, you know, as far as that, it seems like everything keeps coming back to the water and dives in the water. 

SCARBOROUGH:  Let‘s go back to the night of crime.  And we have heard about this boat, that there was a guy that got arrested and then released. 

What was the deal?  What was the connection between Joran and this boat and the possibility that they may have taken Natalee‘s body offshore and dumped her?  And where is that right now? 

HOLLOWAY TWITTY:  Well, it is so complicated.

There‘s actually two individuals who have been mentioned.  Either—one, of course, was arrested, Steve Croes, who is—was the deejay on the Tattoo boat.

And he was arrested because he was a lying witness.  And you can be a lying suspect in Dutch law, but you can‘t be a lying witness.  That‘s—I just learned that this summer.  So, what happened was, Steve Croes came forward.  And Joran even mentions him in his first statement, that Steve Croes is the witness to seeing him drop Natalee off at the Holiday Inn and the two security guards coming up to take her. 

So, Steve Croes comes up.  That‘s where he sticks his neck out for some reason.  He volunteers this information that, oh, he witnessed this happening at the Holiday Inn.  Well, that never even happened.  So, that‘s why Steve Croes was arrested.  But I‘m sure there is another motive behind Steve Croes.  I‘m sure that it was that he has involvement. 

SCARBOROUGH:  So, you are going to go back down there beginning of November.  Are you going to give them one more chance? 

HOLLOWAY TWITTY:  November the 1st, I am returning. 

And, you know, they have already had some requests made of them.  I made it perfectly clear what the family expects right now.  So, there are several things—there are several things that still need to be met.  The FBI—I want the FBI to have ever audio, video tape, every statement.  I want them to have the box of raw data.  I want them to have those leads that were coming early.  And I want to know how each lead was handled.

And I want to know how they followed up on them.  And, secondly, I want the Dutch interrogators involved.  There were four of these men from Holland.  They were extremely—they were dedicated to Natalee‘s case.  I want them involved.  I want them involved in the interrogations.  I felt that they were as shocked as I was on September the 1st, when the judge released them.  I do. 

I mean, they had invested hugely in Natalee‘s case.  And I had met with them several times.  And I just really had a good feel, a gut feeling that they were determined to find the answer.  I mean, I think they wanted to solve this.  I do.  And, you know, but they need their suspects, they need them to be there to interrogate them.  I mean, if they free them all, it is hard for them to continue their mission. 



SCARBOROUGH:  We are back live at the University of Alabama.  We have got a big show.  Straight ahead, we are going to be talking to NFL great Kenny Stabler.  We are also going to be asking the question that people have been asking for ages.  If the team is called the Crimson Tide, why is their mascot an elephant?  That and much more.

But, first, here is the latest news you and your family need to know. 


ANNOUNCER:  Once again from the University of Alabama, Joe Scarborough.


SCARBOROUGH:  Hey, welcome back to the University of Alabama. 

It really is.  Here is the most crimson of the red-state schools.  I have been there.  I should know.

Right now, we are talking to Allison Wilkes.  She is actually Miss University of Alabama. 

Where are you from? 

ALLISON WILKES, MISS UNIVERSITY OF ALABAMA 2005:  I‘m from Tuscaloosa, Alabama, right here.  Roll Tide.


SCARBOROUGH:  So, a Hometown girl.  Very good.

So, you grew up in the middle of this madness.  We have got a Yankee here, a good friend of mine, that works on the show, Chris Lake (ph).  He is trying to figure out what this Southeastern Conference football is all about, what Roll Tide means. 

But I have got to ask you the question that everybody asks me.


SCARBOROUGH:  If they are the Crimson Tide, then why is their mascot an elephant? 

WILKES:  It is actually a very old tradition from when we came into the stadium during one game.


SCARBOROUGH:  You actually know the answer.

WILKES:  I do. 

SCARBOROUGH:  This is shocking.

WILKES:  I can‘t remember the specific game.  But we actually stomped in.  And someone said, they sound like a herd of elephants coming in.  And that‘s where we got our mascot, Big Al. 


SCARBOROUGH:  All right.  Very good.

Now, you are—after you win this contest, you are going on to Miss America.  Is that right?

WILKES:  I competed in the Miss Alabama Pageant, actually, in June.


WILKES:  And the winner of that, who is Alexa Jones, Miss Alabama 2005, she will compete in Miss America in January in Los Angeles, Nevada. 

SCARBOROUGH:  Well, very good.  So, let me ask you, do you have a prediction for tomorrow, other than being bothered by Big Al?  Any prediction?  Alabama going to win?

WILKES:  Alabama is going to win.  And I will even go as far to say, we are going to go about 28-12. 


SCARBOROUGH:  All right.  Very good.  It‘s very good to meet you. 

WILKES:  Thank you. 

SCARBOROUGH:  Thanks.  Thanks for coming out.  I think Big Al is actually thinking about proposing, proposing to Allison pretty soon. 

But now we turn to the second part of my interview last night with Beth Twitty.  And, you know, there is such a contrast.  You‘re out here tonight.  And, again, there is so much excitement, so many people.  I mean, these are the happiest four years—certainly, four of the happiest years of my life.

And yet you have somebody like Beth Twitty, who worked her whole life raising a daughter to get to this point, and then to have it taken away, just senselessly, the way it was. 

I talked to her about the need for her to get answers and about the possibility of a boycott of Aruba.  This is what she told me. 





SCARBOROUGH:  Are you willing to step forward now and say that there was a cover-up or there may have been a cover-up down there? 

HOLLOWAY TWITTY:  Oh, I won‘t say there may. 



SCARBOROUGH:  Well, I am wondering how tactful you are going to be at this point. 


SCARBOROUGH:  Because it was tough for you at the beginning, because you had to work with them. 


HOLLOWAY TWITTY:  Right.  Oh, Right.  Right. 

SCARBOROUGH:  And you could always tell, you were always measuring your words and being the cautious Beth. 


SCARBOROUGH:  But now you are willing to say, there is a cover-up. 

They are trying to protect these three young boys, young men.

HOLLOWAY TWITTY:  They never—they never wanted to implicate these three young men. 

They never wanted to implicate them from the beginning.  And there is a list of reasons, you know, why we know that is true. 

SCARBOROUGH:  If you leave Aruba and you know you will never get answers there, is that when you go on a one-woman crusade to find justice in another way, as far as whether it is cutting Aruba off from tourist money or letting the whole world know just how corrupt their system is?  Is that the end game for you? 

HOLLOWAY TWITTY:  Well, I think that that‘s where I have to rely on our government here to help me in that, in how we can go about getting them to recognize that this cannot be unsolved. 

And I think that we did our part.  We remained respectful.  And we remained, you know, so—we just kept thinking, oh, it is going to work.  We didn‘t—you know, senators were calling us and Governor Riley was calling us.  And we were like, we are OK.  We are working with the system.  We are working with the Dutch law. 

And now I look back on it and I think, you know, what fools we were, that, you know—I still look back on it and think, I‘m glad that we did the right thing.  I‘m glad that—so now, there is no question.  There is no question that it didn‘t work.  Nobody can question it at all. 

SCARBOROUGH:  Isn‘t it time for politicians in America and for parents, more importantly, parents in America, to warn their children, to warn their loved ones, don‘t go to Aruba because it is just not safe? 

HOLLOWAY TWITTY:  Oh, absolutely.  It is time.  It will be time. 

SCARBOROUGH:  Will you go to Governor Bob Riley?  Will you go to other news outlets and start demanding a boycott of Aruba? 

HOLLOWAY TWITTY:  It will be time.  It will be time. 

SCARBOROUGH:  You are going to talk about what happened to Natalee in Aruba, when you—are you going to go out and talk to high school kids, college kids, warn them about what happened to her and what could happen to them if they go to Aruba or the wrong country? 

HOLLOWAY TWITTY:  Well, I think that all I will have to do is, is, I‘m just going to tell Natalee‘s story that happened to her in Aruba. 

And I that that will—I mean, that is the awareness as it is.  And all I will be simply doing is just—I will tell what happened.  I will tell what happened to her when she arrived on the island of Aruba for her senior trip. 


HOLLOWAY TWITTY:  And how, on her passport, it‘s stamped she only expected to stay four nights there.


HOLLOWAY TWITTY:  Only stamped four nights.  So, I think that some people have a better account of it than I am—I have. 

I know it.  We are getting into months.  So, I have kind of lost track of days.  I have just—I‘m just—you know, we are approaching month five.  But—and I think that that is powerful enough as it is.  It will leave an impact on them, because, you know, I‘m not going to be telling them—it‘s not going to be coming like from a parent telling them to be safe or telling them things to do and not to do.  I will simply be telling her story.  And it will have impact in itself. 


SCARBOROUGH:  I will tell you what.  Beth Holloway Twitty is just one of the strongest women I have ever met. 

You remember the movie “Steel Magnolias”?  I mean, you sit there and you talk to her and you understand that these three punks that did whatever they did to her daughter are not going to have a day‘s—a day of peace until, again, she finds justice in Aruba. 

And I just want to ask the crowd.  There are a lot of people here from Alabama, Georgia, across this area.  But if they continue to cover up what happened to Natalee, how many people here would support a boycott of Aruba, Americans going to Aruba? 


SCARBOROUGH:  Because I have got to tell you, everybody that I have talked to that have—that understand what has been going on here, you know, they all support the same thing. 

They think, again, if the Aruban people are not going provide justice, then, you know what?  We are going to have—our politicians are going to need to step up and do the right thing.  I think that is exactly what is going to happen. 


SCARBOROUGH:  Now, when we come back, new details about the suspect in the murder of Daniel Horowitz‘s wife.  It‘s an amazing story.

Also, a lot more from the University of Alabama, including the Snake. 


SCARBOROUGH:  Kenny Stabler, he will be here when we come back live from Tuscaloosa, Alabama. 



SCARBOROUGH:  A tragic story out of California.  As you know, 16-year-old Scott Dyleski was charged today with the brutal murder of Pamela Vitale.  She was the wife of prominent attorney Daniel Horowitz.

Now, he was charged as an adult.  And bail was set at $1 million.

With more on that story, let‘s go now to Jodi Hernandez of KNTV. 

Jodi, what‘s the latest? 


JODI HERNANDEZ, KNTV REPORTER:  The prosecutor says he has no doubt 16-year-old Scott Dyleski brutally murdered Pamela Vitale.  They officially charged him with murder today.  And they charged him as an adult.

Now, with his hair cut short, Dyleski appeared in court today.  He stared straight ahead and nodded as his attorney requested a continuance.  Dyleski will be back in court next to enter a plea. 

The prosecutor says, because of the brutal nature of the crime, they are charging him as an adult.  They also say, because Dyleski allegedly used a bludgeon, he faces a stiffer sentence, 26 years to life in prison.  Now, because Scott Dyleski is a minor, he is 16 years old, he is not eligible for the death penalty.  Bail has been set at $1 million.

In Martinez, I‘m Jodi Hernandez—Joe, back to you.


SCARBOROUGH:  Thanks so much, Jodi.  Greatly appreciate it. 

You know, as a parent, I ask the question that I know parents across America that are going to be following this story in the coming weeks are going to be asking.  And that is, what turned this Boy Scout who loved baseball into a dark, brooding follower of a Gothic lifestyle that cops now say led to satanic worshiping and this grisly killing. 

With me now to talk about the case are Ken McLaughlin.  He‘s a reporter are with “The San Jose Mercury News.”  We have got Bruce Gerstman.  He‘s a reporter with “The Contra Costa Times” who was in the courtroom today when the defendant was charged.  And Pat Brown, she‘s a criminal profiler. 

Pat, I want to start with you.

What turns a Boy Scout into this cold-blooded killer in a couple of years? 

PAT BROWN, CRIMINAL PROFILER:  Well, actually, Joe, nothing can turn a Boy Scout into a cold-blooded killer in that short period of time.  And that‘s a lot of what people misunderstand.  No one just goes of a cliff that quickly.

These things develop all the way through childhood into the teen years.  And it is only when these teens get more power and control in their lives, more ability to get out and wreak kind of havoc like this that they can actually do this.


SCARBOROUGH:  Pat, let me interrupt you for a second.  We are looking

I want—show those two pictures again.  Remarkable thing about these two pictures are, you are talking about a two-year difference between a kid, again, who is a Boy Scout and, again, two years later, and we have got to underline alleged, who is an alleged killer, and, again, who has completely changed. 


SCARBOROUGH:  So, again, what causes that radical transformation?

BROWN:  Those are pictures, Joe. 

And we all really look good when we go down to a photo studio and we get those pictures done and we smile.  We could be any kind of person.  But our smile makes us look like we are totally innocent.  Parents do put their children into these activities.  They‘re young enough that they go to these activities.  But that doesn‘t mean a psychopathology isn‘t developing and a hate of society and a hate of everyone around them isn‘t developing.


BROWN:  And then, when they get to the point where they nurture that with a lot of things like gaming and Goth and satanism, these things come into their lives and they can focus on the dark side of things and their anger, and that can be expressed even further, that‘s when this kind of thing boils over. 

But it was always there for many years.  And the parents aren‘t recognizing it.  And society is not recognizing it as well. 


And, you know, it sounds so much like Columbine, unfortunately...

BROWN:  Absolutely.

SCARBOROUGH:  ... where you may have had parents that didn‘t recognize what was going on. 

Bruce, you were in the courtroom today.  I understand that this kid—and he still is a kid—had a couple terrible events happen.  There was a divorce in his life.  His sister died two years ago.  Of course, that doesn‘t justify it.  But do you think the defense may be using that moving forward, that he has had a terrible life? 

BRUCE GERSTMAN, “CONTRA COSTA TIMES”:  Oh, I mean, anything is possible. 

I often do see defense bringing up, you know, issues of someone‘s background during a homicide trial.  There is no way to tell what is going to happen.  I mean, the kid has not even entered a plea yet. 

SCARBOROUGH:  What was the courtroom like today? 

GERSTMAN:  Well, the courtroom, it was really full of reporters.  And, I mean, you know, the seats were filled with journalists from everywhere. 

And this was the first time we got a chance to see Scott.  And he came out.  He is really slight, you know, a pretty small kid.  He was wearing the sweat clothes that they wear in juvenile hall, rather than the jail jumpsuit.  And, yes, he was looking straight forward, just listening to the prosecutor and the defense attorney decide when to meet next. 

And, yes, it was quick and he was behind a metal and glass cage that is reserved for the defendants.  So, he was like this small guy and he was being stared at by whatever, two, three dozens journalists. 

SCARBOROUGH:  Ken, what do the people on the West Coast, in that area, obviously rocked by this tragic event, what are they saying about this kid; what are they saying about his family? 

KEN MCLAUGHLIN, “SAN JOSE MERCURY NEWS”:  Well, I think probably people are not saying very different things here than they are in the rest of country. 

I think that, you know, most California parents are probably very familiar with the Gothic kids.  And in fact we are running a story this weekend trying to tell parents exactly what to look out for.  In other words, how to they tell a child who is—the difference between a child who is going through a stage and somebody who is really seriously getting into this? 

I mean, there were indications.  You know, this kid liked to flaunt it.  He read a Satanic Bible in the cafeteria, in his high school.  And there were a lot of other indications that he took this very, very seriously.  And I have known a lot of these Goth kids because I teach at a community college as well.  But—and most of them I think are very, very innocent.  But it is hard to tell.  It really is. 

SCARBOROUGH:  You know, Pat, there been a lot of talk about these Goth kids, a lot of talk about—you have talked about gaming.  Is there a connection between that type of activity, if parents see their kids doing that, and violent acts towards other people? 

BROWN:  Absolutely, there is. 

And, of course, I‘m going to get a lot of hate mail, which I do every time I speak in a negative way about gaming or Goth or satanic issues.  Somebody is going to say, well, come on now.  Not all kids are like that and they are just experimenting. 

And you will know.  When you look at your child and you look at how they are behaving, are they happy and cheerful?  You could be happy and cheerful and play some games.  You can be happy and cheerful and wear black.  But if you are not happy and cheerful, if you are hiding out in your bedroom, listening to nothing but really heavy metal music that is really depressing and you‘re angry all the time and you are talking about Satan and how Satan is right and everything else is wrong, you can start getting a little inkling that something is terribly wrong with your child. 

But what is really happening is, these parents often aren‘t that involved in their children‘s lives.  They push them off on somebody else.  They are paying no mind.  And they‘re shrugging everything off as, it is just a stage.  Nothing is just a stage. 

Children go through life, like we all do, having interests in things, and being pulled into things or directing themselves into things.  We have to pay attention to what those directions are and not just say, oh, it is just—it is just going to go away.  It may not go away.  Is your child really happy?  And if they‘re not, there is something wrong.  Pay attention to it. 

SCARBOROUGH:  Well, and I‘ll tell you what, Pat.  If they start reading a Satanic Bible, that may be a hint things aren‘t going in the right direction.

BROWN:  Huge hint.  Huge hint.


Hey, Pat, thank you so much.  Appreciate it. 

BROWN:  My pleasure, Joe. 

SCARBOROUGH:  Bruce, Ken, also appreciate it. 

We are going to be following this story next week.  Certainly hope you all will come back.

Now, when we come back, we are going to lighten things up a little bit.


SCARBOROUGH:  That‘s “Sweet Home Alabama”—with Kenny Stabler, the Snake, who is a legend here at Alabama and also with the Oakland Raiders—that when SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY returns from Tuscaloosa.




SCARBOROUGH:  I‘m joined now by Kenny Stabler, who, of course, is the legendary quarterback from the University the Alabama, also Oakland Raiders.

He led the Crimson Tide to a national championship, led the Oakland Raiders.

Hey, I remember so many moments in your career.  Of course, my dad was a huge Oakland Raider fan.  So, we had to be a huge Raider fan.  I‘m still remember you going down on your knees and throwing that pass.


KEN STABLER, FORMER ALABAMA QUARTERBACK:  Just trying to make car payments. 

SCARBOROUGH:  Just trying to make a car payment.



SCARBOROUGH:  You made a few, baby.

Talk about Alabama, how crazy folks—why is football so important for this state? 

STABLER:  Well, it starts so soon.  It starts so young in our culture.

People bring their children home from the hospital in red and white or orange and blue or whatever the colors are. 


STABLER:  And that‘s where it starts.  It starts really young.  And you hear all that and you live with it 365 days a year, the—Auburn, Alabama, the rivalry.


STABLER:  You have to deal with that person 365 days a year, whether they‘re a doctor, lawyer, Indian, chief.  The veterinarians are all Auburn guys.  My dog suffers if they beat us.



So, talk about when you were here.  Obviously, a lot of people say, oh, there is too much pressure.


SCARBOROUGH:  You too much pressure on these 18-year-old kids.  They are playing in front of 80,000 people.  If they do something wrong, they boo.  Sometimes, the ball bounces the wrong way.  Talk about that. 


STABLER:  No.  I don‘t think there is such a thing—I don‘t think the kids look at it that way.

I don‘t think the kid looks, saying, I got a ton of pressure on me.  I think the kids looks at it and he says, I can‘t wait to put on that jersey.  I can‘t wait to put on those colors.  I can‘t wait to go play for that school, play for that coach, play for that team. 


STABLER:  I don‘t think that the pressure is, is to go play with them. 


STABLER:  It‘s not the fact that you get that opportunity that puts a lot of pressure on you.  A lot of it is self-imposed.  You want to do as well as the people before you, you know, if you take the quarterbacks like Namath and Bart Starr and Pat Trammell and Steve Sloan and—Namath and all those guys.


STABLER:  You want to go do the same thing they did, wear that same shirt, play for the same gang.

SCARBOROUGH:  And you did.

STABLER:  Yes.  You know, I played with a good team for a great coach.

SCARBOROUGH:  We have got to wrap up.  But tell me this.  Is Alabama going to beat Tennessee tomorrow? 

STABLER:  Yes.  They can‘t...


STABLER:  What am I supposed to say? 

SCARBOROUGH:  Your posse has answered for you.

STABLER:  What am I supposed to say?

SCARBOROUGH:  Well, there are a lot of people in Tennessee that watch the game, too. 


SCARBOROUGH:  Who is going to win tomorrow?


STABLER:  If we go play, don‘t turn the ball over and go play, we will win. 

SCARBOROUGH:  All right. 

STABLER:  It‘s going to be a turnover type game.  We have a very good team, well-coached by a terrific staff, a bunch of great young players.  And if we go play the way that we are capable of playing, as we did against Florida, and they are as loud as they were against...



SCARBOROUGH:  All right.  Kenny Stabler, thanks so much. 

Listen, it has been great having you here tonight.

We are going to leave with—well, actually, we are leaving now with the sound of “Sweet Home Alabama.”

But we will be right back in a second. 



SCARBOROUGH:  We are back at the University of Alabama in just a minute.  And we are going to be telling you about what a yellow hammer has to do with University of Alabama—that and much more when SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY returns. 


SCARBOROUGH:  Hey, that‘s all the time we have tonight, live from Alabama. 

We have got some people ready for...




Tucker, what you got? 



Copy: Content and programming copyright 2005 MSNBC.  ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.  Transcription Copyright 2005 Voxant, Inc. ALL RIGHTS  RESERVED. No license is granted to the user of this material other than for research. User may not reproduce or redistribute the material except for user‘s personal or internal use and, in such case, only one copy may be printed, nor shall user use any material for commercial purposes or in any fashion that may infringe upon MSNBC and Voxant, Inc.‘s copyright or other proprietary rights or interests in the material. This is not a legal transcript for purposes of litigation.