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'Rita Cosby Live & Direct' for Oct. 31

Read the transcript to the Monday show

Guests: Darryl Schnell, Thomas James, Helge Hellberg, Martin Lewis, Georgia James, Jim Marcinkowsky, Melissa Boyle Mahle, Ron Fischetti, John Baeza, Steve Huff

RITA COSBY, HOST:  Good evening, everybody.  A lot on tap tonight, a stunning new look at accused killer Scott Dyleski, the teen charged with murdering Pamela Vitale.  We have the new never-before-seen photos plus an unusual new theory as to why Vitale may have been killed.  What does it have to do with a dog?

Also, we just came back from a special Halloween patrol.  New Jersey cops show us firsthand what they‘re doing to keep sex offenders away from your kids.

Plus, a Halloween celebration out of control, hundreds arrested after an unruly parade in Wisconsin.  We‘re going to find out what police had to do to calm the chaos there.

But first tonight, some big news coming out of Washington, D.C.  President Bush nominates Judge Samuel Alito to the Supreme Court, as he still faces many questions concerning the leak of CIA agent Valerie Plame‘s identity.  Some say tonight that the president was just trying to change the subject away from that scandal.

Joining me now live is MSNBC‘s chief Washington correspondent, Norah O‘Donnell—Norah.

NORAH O‘DONNELL, MSNBC CHIEF WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT:  Hey, good evening.  Beautiful tonight.  President Bush is trying to move on after the most devastating week of his presidency, where Karl Rove narrowly escaped the indictment and the vice president‘s chief of staff was indicted.  Today, President Bush, in naming Samuel Alito to the Supreme Court, had, in some ways, two goals in mind.  First, change the subject, and second, pick a fight with Democrats.

Today, conservatives cheered Alito‘s nomination, calling it a grand slam home run, but Democrats suggested Alito may be too radical for the American people.  The bottom line, Rita, there is going to a battle royale in the Senate over Alito‘s nomination.  One big issue is Alito‘s most controversial legal opinion, which is from 1991.  He voted to uphold a Pennsylvania law which required women to notify their husbands before seeking an abortion.  Now, the Supreme Court ultimately struck down that law.

Well, we also heard from Alito‘s 91-year-old mother, who also weighed in today, letting it be known that her son is opposed to abortion.  Now, if confirmed, Alito is expected to usher in a historic new era of judicial conservativism.  And because of that, senators part of the so-called “gang of 14” could not rule out a potential filibuster tonight, or the so-called “nuclear option” that we‘ve heard about, to scuttle Alito‘s nomination.  We‘ll be watching that in the Senate, Rita.

COSBY:  And we‘ll be watching his mother, his 91-year-old mother.


COSBY:  You know, Norah, with Karl Rove still under investigation, is switching the attention away from the CIA leak case going to be easy for this president?

O‘DONNELL:  Well, it may not be easy.  And as one source close to Rove said to me, The angel of death passed over us on Friday, but we still have a few more weeks of waiting.  Today, Ambassador Joseph Wilson said Karl Rove should not be able to resign.  He said what Rove has done is a firing offense.  But the White House today rebuffed suggestions that there will be a huge staff shakeup at the White House, and they dismissed Democratic demands that the president apologize.

One senior Republican very close to the White House said they are trying—the president is trying to regain his footing.  There‘s going to be a whole series of big announcements this week.  Tomorrow, the president‘s got a big announcement on the bird flu, and then the president is going overseas.

And another close friend and adviser of the president‘s told me, quote, “Washington loves to talk about train wrecks and bad news.  The reality is, there‘s a physics that sets in.  So the big story is Bush down.  The next story will be Bush back on his feet again.  So I expect we will see a turnaround not only in the press but in public support, as well”—


COSBY:  We‘ll all be watching closely.  Norah, thanks so much.  We appreciate it.

So what does the president have to do to get things back on track?  I asked White House special adviser Ed Gillespie about President Bush‘s latest move, his new pick for the Supreme Court.


ED GILLESPIE, WHITE HOUSE SPECIAL ADVISER:  Judge Alito is well respected by people across the spectrum.  He has a great deal of experience on the appellate court.  He‘s someone who has the intellectual capacity, the integrity and the temperament to be a fantastic associate justice on the Supreme Court, and I think you‘ll see that he‘ll enjoy the support of senators on both sides of the aisle at the end of this process.

COSBY:  Of course, some Democrats—you know, typical in Washington, both sides always putting in their 2 cents.  Very quickly, some Democrats, particularly Chuck Schumer, wasted no time in criticizing the story.  Let‘s take a listen, and I want to get you to respond, Ed.

SEN. CHARLES SCHUMER (D), NEW YORK:  Well, it‘s sad that the president felt he had to pick a nominee likely to divide America instead of choosing a nominee in the mold of Sandra Day O‘Connor, who would unified us.

COSBY:  So Ed, do you think it‘s going to be a tough fight?

GILLESPIE:  Well, this is someone, in Judge Alito, who has been passed by the United States Senate two times by unanimous consent under the chairmanship of Senator Joseph Biden, Democrat of Delaware, on the Judiciary Committee, and under George Mitchell‘s leadership of the United States Senate.  And judge Alito hasn‘t changed since that time.

I hope the process for confirmation hasn‘t changed in that time.  The fact is, the public expects a fair process, a dignified process, one that ends with an up-or-down vote for nominees.  And if that‘s the case, I think you will see Judge Alito get strong bipartisan support on the floor of the United States Senate.

COSBY:  You know, first thing this morning, Ed, of course, the announcement comes down with the new nominee.  Is this sort of a sense, Let‘s get a fresh start?  Last week, by I‘m sure anyone‘s standards, was a rough week for the White House, with Harriet Miers, with Scooter Libby.  Is this a sense of, Let‘s begin anew?

GILLESPIE:  Well, we‘re looking forward to a debate of the proper role of the federal judiciary in our system of Bosnian, and the president‘s philosophy is one of judicial restraint.  He looks for nominees who apply the law as written, don‘t seek to make new laws based their own personal opinion.  There are some who want judges who are activists, who reach out and try to create new policies and seek to assure outcomes based their own personal desires.  Most Americans, I don‘t think, share that point of view.

We welcome a debate over judicial restraint.  We welcome a debate over whether or not the Supreme Court of the United States should be looking to our Constitution in issuing rulings or looking at the laws of foreign countries in coming to those conclusions, whether or not private property should be taken from individual A and given to individual B in the name of the common good or the public good.  Those are the kinds of debates that are very important in our system today, and we look forward to those debates as Judge Alito‘s nomination moves through the Senate process.

COSBY:  Lots of announcements today out of the White House.  Also, someone now replacing Scooter Libby as Cheney‘s chief of staff.  Who is this guy?

GILLESPIE:  Well, David Addington is someone who is very well respected, long been close to the vice president.  He‘s a very well regarded attorney.  In the administration, someone who is well known to the White House staff and well respected and respected on Capitol Hill and in other parts of this town.  And I think he‘ll do a great job as the vice president‘s chief of staff.

COSBY:  And Ed, overall, what‘s the mood at the White House?  You know, bumpy times, rough times, death toll in Iraq now 2,000 -- what‘s sort of the spirit there?

GILLESPIE:  Everyone is very focused on doing the public‘s business and making sure that the president‘s agenda is being implemented, working with members of the House and the Senate to pass a positive agenda for the American people.

COSBY:  Ed, thank you very much.

GILLESPIE:  Thank you, Rita.


COSBY:  And now to the former ambassador whose criticism is believed to have prompted the White House to smear him and his wife.  He‘s speaking out about the charges against Scooter Libby.  Joe Wilson says he got no pleasure from seeing Libby indicted, but boy, he did go after senior White House adviser Karl Rove.


JOSEPH WILSON, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR:  I don‘t think he should be permitted to step down.  I think the president should fire him.  These are firing offenses.  These are not, You are allowed to resign, offenses.  These are firing offenses.  This is the national security of the country we‘re talking about.


COSBY:  And joining me now is Jim Marcinkowsky, who trained with Valerie Plame, and also Melissa Boyle Mahle.  She‘s a former CIA spy, and she‘s the author of a book called “Denial and Deception: An Insider‘s View of the CIA From Iran-Contra to 9/11.”

Jim, let me start with you.  How betrayed do you feel, as a former agent, about this leak?

JIM MARCINKOWSKY, FORMER CIA AGENT WHO TRAINED WITH PLAME:  We‘re outraged.  Betrayal—I mean, that‘s the—that‘s the lowest description I can put on it.  We held this secret for 18 years until betrayed by the White House, whether we were inside the agency or outside the agency.  It‘s is simply outrageous.

COSBY:  You know, Melissa, do you find it sort of ironic that here you go—I know when you go for your job and your training, you‘re told, Keep these things covert.  You don‘t expect the government to be the one doing the outing.

MELISSA BOYLE MAHLE, FORMER CIA SPY:  No, you certainly don‘t because you know your cover is what allows to you do your job.  And so since the government presumably wants you to do your job, that they‘ll also protect it.

COSBY:  You know, Jim, let‘s talk about this company, I found this fascinating, a company called Brewster Jennings and Associates.  It‘s been outed now by others, so we can talk about it.  But explain (INAUDIBLE) sort of it was sort of a mock company under a cover.

MARCINKOWSKY:  Well, that‘s exactly right.  There‘s commercial covers.  You‘re not protected overseas by governmental immunity, diplomatic immunity.  And if you get caught under one of those kinds of covers, non-official cover, you‘re going to suffer the consequences of any other body that may be operating and conducting the espionage in a foreign country.

COSBY:  But Jim, with this Brewster-Jennings, it was a business card.  It was sort of a pseudo-company that folks who worked for the CIA could pretend that they worked for this company, right?

MARCINKOWSKY:  Correct.  And it doesn‘t matter whether it‘s just a telephone or a business card.  The fact of the matter was, it was sufficient to get in and out of a country safely, and that‘s all that matters in the eyes of an agent.

COSBY:  You know, and how detrimental, Melissa, when something like a Brewster Jennings is let out?  Because I would imagine a lot of agents use that as their cover.

MAHLE:  Well, I tell you, when you start exposing how—what kinds of covers that the CIA uses in whether business or whatever, you start setting a trail that bad guys can follow and say, Hey, let‘s look at these kind of companies and see what—you know, Maybe we can find some more agents.

COSBY:  Well, that‘s what I was going to say.  There‘s a huge rippling effect, right, Melissa?

MAHLE:  Yes, and I think that‘s one of the things that really concerns the CIA because we need to protect our agents and our officers if we‘re going to be able to achieve our mission.

COSBY:  You know, Melissa, you worked as a female spy in the Middle East.  What was that like?  And how dangerous was it?

MAHLE:  Listen, I was a counterterrorism officer.  I worked in the Middle East.  My cover was extremely important to me because I depended on it for hiding my identity so I could protect myself, my family and my agents.

COSBY:  And we‘re, in fact, looking at one of the pictures here.  This is of you a couple of—how many years ago was this, Melissa, as we‘re looking at...


COSBY:  ... because you‘re holding a big gun.

MAHLE:  More than a few!


COSBY:  You look like you know how to use that weapon.  I‘m a little scared of you now.  And here you are with Arafat.  I remember reading one of the stories that you actually brought your baby to Arafat because you couldn‘t find a nanny, right?

MAHLE:  Well, yes, that was one of those times.  You know, everybody has child care issues.

COSBY:  Yes, I think that‘s a great story.

Hey, Jim, how has—how has this affected Valerie Plame‘s career, this whole ordeal?

MARCINKOWSKY:  Well, her career is essentially over.  If you have a career as an undercover officer, you‘re traveling from one country to the other, obviously, the one time you‘re exposed, you can‘t take that back.  The toothpaste is out of the tube.  You can‘t put it back in.  Her career is ended.

COSBY:  And Melissa, real quick, how‘s this affected her career, in your opinion?

MAHLE:  Well, I agree with Jim that her career is over, and that means that we have lost a very important officer that has experience in weapons of mass destruction.

COSBY:  Both of you, thank you very much for talking about this important issue.  We appreciate it.

MAHLE:  Thank you.

MARCINKOWSKY:  You‘re welcome..

COSBY:  Thank you.  And from the White House to the courthouse, America will watch history in the making this week, as Scooter Libby is arraigned in a Washington courtroom this Thursday.  He will become one of the country‘s most notorious suspected white collar criminals.

Joining me now live is attorney Ron Fischetti, who is known for representing a New York congressman back in the 1970s and also for defending one of the police officers involved in the torture case of Haitian immigrant Abner Louima.

Ron, how would you defend Scooter Libby?

RON FISCHETTI, WHITE COLLAR CRIMINAL LAWYER:  Well, you have to defend him very carefully.  In a case like this, you‘re basically dealing with perjury.  And I think the defense is going to be, if he goes to trial, just failure of recollection, so busy doing things that he has to do for the president and for the world, that how could he remember conversations like this?  Just a mistake in the grand jury and to the FBI agents.  That‘s generally what you do in a perjury case.

COSBY:  How much tougher does it make it with all these elements?  You got the White House involved.  You know they‘re going to be watching every move.

FISCHETTI:  Yes, it‘s going to be very, very difficult.  The whole world‘s going to be watching this case.  And one of the problems is going to be to pick an impartial jury.  Very difficult in a high-profile case to pick a jury that‘s going to just judge the case on the facts.  So it‘s going to be difficult.

COSBY:  How long is it going to take to seat that jury?  I would imagine that‘s going to be a long time.  You know, just like in the Monica Lewinsky—even in the grand jury, everybody was watching every move.  In this case, especially, if it goes to a public trial, to ask folks who have not heard about it?  That‘s the question, right?

FISCHETTI:  Well, it‘s not a question of who hasn‘t heard about it, it‘s who can be fair.  I mean, it‘s basically like the Martha Stewart case with perjury.  You‘ll have questionnaires.  The judge will examine each juror individually to make sure, no matter what they heard, they can put their opinions aside and just judge the case on the facts.

COSBY:  What do you say to your client who—it‘s in his best interest, obviously—in this case, he‘s saying he‘s innocent, to ride it out.  And then I‘m sure there are folks at the White House either privately or even publicly probably saying, Make a plea deal.

FISCHETTI:  Well, he can make a plea deal even without cooperating.  I mean, the papers say he‘s facing 30 years, but he‘s facing much less than that.

COSBY:  What could he face, Ron?  What do you think?

FISCHETTI:  Well, under the guidelines now, probably about three, three-and-a-half years, if he‘s found guilty.

COSBY:  So what would you say to him, if you‘re advising him, Ron? 

What do you say?

FISCHETTI:  If he‘s innocent, he goes to trial.  There‘s nothing else you can do, if he‘s innocent.  He goes to trial and he takes his chances with the jury.  That‘s all you can do.  He calls character witnesses.  He testifies himself.  In a perjury case, you must put your client on the stand to testify, Look, I said those things, but I wasn‘t intentionally lying.  I just had a failure of recollection.

COSBY:  Let‘s talk honestly.  How much pressure do you think he‘s going to feel from the White House even privately?  How much guidance are they going to be giving him off the record?

FISCHETTI:  Well, if they‘re going to give him guidance, it‘s got to be off the record.  I mean, right now, he‘s toxic.  Nobody‘s going to go near Scooter Libby until this case is over.

COSBY:  Yes, they‘re going to say, Scooter who, right, for the next year or so.

FISCHETTI:  Exactly right.

COSBY:  All right, Ron, thank you very much for your insight.

FISCHETTI:  You‘re welcome.

COSBY:  We appreciate it.

And stick with us, everybody.  There‘s much more ahead tonight on LIVE


Still ahead, the Vitale murder, stunning, never-before-seen photos of the young accused killer, and a shocking new theory.  Was Pamela Vitale really a victim of mistaken identity?

Also, fright night.  It‘s Halloween, and police are out in full force, making sure sex offenders stay far away from trick-or-treaters.  We just came back from patrolling with the cops, and we‘ll show you what we saw firsthand.

And the British invasion.  Prince Charles heads to the U.S. for his first visit in more than a decade.  But will the prince and his new bride receive a royal welcome or a cold shoulder?

And you‘ll never guess what this beat-up shack (ph) is going for on the Vegas strip.  That‘s ahead LIVE AND DIRECT.


COSBY:  A possible new twist in the murder of Pamela Vitale, the wife of high-profile lawyer Daniel Horowitz.  Investigators are now looking into one theory that teen suspect Scott Dyleski was upset after a neighbor ran over his dog, and that he may have mistaken Vitale with that neighbor.  Meantime, we‘ve now gotten some stunning new pictures, to say the least, of Scott Dyleski.  Take a look at them.

Joining us now LIVE AND DIRECT is crime blogger Steve Huff.  You know, Steve, when you saw these photos, did your jaw drop as much as mine did?

STEVE HUFF, CRIME BLOGGER:  Yes, especially with the Post-It notes on his hair.

COSBY:  Oh, yes.  Let‘s go back to that one.  That was the first one.  Let‘s go back to that one because that is just shocking.  What was he—do we have any idea, like, in what context he was doing these things?

HUFF:  I believe that one was taken at his school, and it was taken in April of last year, is all I know about—no, not of last year, excuse me, of this year.  So that‘s actually a very recent photo.

COSBY:  Was he at, like, some Halloween, or is he just a typical day at school?

HUFF:  The one where he‘s holding the soda, that‘s a Halloween/birthday party that he had.

COSBY:  What have you heard about, like, friends?  As you look at these pictures, he just looks so kooky and so wacky.  What have you heard from friends about—you know, about this guy?

HUFF:  Well, from what I‘ve been able to determine—my friend Jules Hammer (ph) was the one who found these photos, and she runs the Joseph Edward Duncan III blog, (ph).  And Jules and I both, from looking at it, we‘ve been able to determine that his friends, for one thing, they really don‘t want to believe that Scott did what he‘s accused of doing, as many friends wouldn‘t.  And a lot of what they express about him is warmth.  I mean, he‘s a good friend.

The most negative thing that I had read in one person‘s journal was, you know, yes, he can be arrogant sometimes, but he‘s harmless.  They have a nickname for him.  It‘s Armadillo.

COSBY:  Yes, where‘d he get that?  What is that?

HUFF:  I don‘t know.  I‘ve been wondering about that myself, but that‘s what one of his friends called him, was Armadillo.  And he talked about how this guy that he knows as Armadillo just couldn‘t do the things that they say he‘s accused of doing.

COSBY:  Why do they think he went Goth?  You know, we showed those pictures, sort of, of him progressing through the years, you know, and, like, ‘02, ‘03, looked like a normal kid.  And then he started wearing the dark trench (ph) clothes—trench clothes, the coats, everything.  You know, it seemed like it progressed.  And here we‘re looking at pictures from ‘03 to just recently.

HUFF:  Well, the whole Goth movement grew out of a certain undercurrent in the punk movement, you know, that embraced a lot of morbidity and...

COSBY:  But what happened with him, Scott?  What happened with him?

HUFF:  I think with him, it was that—it was that he had a death in his family.  And it seemed to start right around that time.  That‘s when the change began.  You know, the latest theory that you were discussing before the break, about possibly something being a catalyst for what he may have done, makes a lot of sense in light of that because Goth will be about embracing the dark side of things, for some people.

COSBY:  And this is about the dog.  We heard that his dog was run over, and maybe he thought that Pamela Vitale was the neighbor who ran over his dog...

HUFF:  Right.

COSBY:  ... and then he might have gone over there as payback.  A lot of people talking about that?

HUFF:  Yes, not so much at the moment, but I have a feeling it‘s going to be a little bit more.  I was just studying on it before I came here, and there‘s some chatter beginning.  Let‘s—I can say that.

COSBY:  Well, Steve Huff, thank you for showing us these pictures.  We really appreciate it.  Thank you, Steve...

HUFF:  Thank you.

COSBY:  ... very much.  And now joining us tonight from Miami is Detective John Baeza.  He‘s a former New York city homicide detective.  You know, detective, let me first—let‘s go first to these pictures again because, I mean, when we saw them, it is really stunning, especially these shots—this is a Halloween party here where he‘s dressing up.  But some of these other ones, he‘s in school wearing dark clothes.  What is this saying about this individual?

JOHN BAEZA, DETECTIVE:  Well, while it may describe a disillusioned youth, a young adult, somebody that may be a bit disturbed, I believe that we have—there are thousands of young adults who behave in a similar manner and dress in a similar manner, but they don‘t go out and kill people on daily basis.  And I think while we can focus on is and it makes interesting fodder, I don‘t think that this is what we have to focus on.  I think there are...

COSBY:  It could just be...

BAEZA:  ... more disturbing...

COSBY:  ... just a wacky teenager, and again, like you said, could just be somebody who is playing around.  What about the issue of the dog?  Would someone kill over a dog?

BAEZA:  Somebody certainly could kill over a dog and probably has killed over a dog.  In this case, though, I think that that theory kind of borders on the ridiculous.  And the reason I say that is because if somebody killed the dog, typically, you‘re not going to wait two weeks and show this type of anger.  This is an anger-retaliatory type crime that we see here, where there‘s a lot of anger, there‘s a lot of damage to the victim.  And I don‘t think that that‘s held in—you know, somebody‘s going to hold that in for two weeks and then just suddenly go ahead and do this.  I think there‘s something deeper here that we may not be seeing, and it‘s not on the surface.

COSBY:  Separate than the credit cards, separate than the marijuana, pot (INAUDIBLE) separate than the dog, do you think?

BAEZA:  Yes, Rita.  I think that there is a possibility, as well, that he may have seen this woman from afar, observed her, viewed he.  He may have known that her husband wasn‘t going to be home.  He may have attempted to make contact with her.  She may have—you know, obviously did not want that contact.  And thereby, the anger comes.  And I think that that‘s maybe what we‘re seeing here.  It‘s a possibility.

But there‘s a lot of focus just on alone the marijuana thing, and that could be true.  But I think there‘s something else beneath the surface here.

COSBY:  Yes, I agree with you.  It seems like there‘s something, especially to go to this end of almost—you know, hitting her 40 times, which is what he‘s accused of.  Also, the stabbing.  As you pointed, that‘s very, very violent.  Separate than this, the mother.  Big development, the mother now saying she‘s going to testify against her son.  How key is she?

BAEZA:  Well, she‘s pretty key here.  I think the—depending on what evidence, the physical evidence they have—because we don‘t know exactly what they have right now—but her—she‘s pretty key.  I think it‘s going to depend on whether the jury is going to believe her and believe what she has to say because she is getting a deal.  But remember, every day, the government makes deals with people and prosecutors make deals with people to testify and tell the truth.  It‘s up to the jury to determine whether she‘s telling the truth.  So I think she is pretty key.

COSBY:  Yes, how do you handle the interrogation of someone like that?

BAEZA:  Well, I think what you need to do is you need to get specifics from her.  It can‘t be in generalities.  It has to be something that only her son would know or that she could learn from her son about this crime, something very specific that people could know, Yes, in fact, she did hear this or she did talk to her son about this.

COSBY:  To determine the credibility.  Detective, thank you very much. 

We appreciate it.

BAEZA:  Thank you.

COSBY:  And still ahead, everybody, on LIVE AND DIRECT: Do you know who‘s at home when your kids go trick-or-treating?  Well, we just got back from patrolling with the police.  We‘re going to show you how they are keeping sex offenders away this Halloween.  We went door to door.

Also tonight, the British are coming!  Prince Charles and Camilla are heading to America for their first trip together, and you‘ll never guess some of the places that they are visiting.  It is not what you think.  That‘s ahead on LIVE AND DIRECT.


ANNOUNCER:  Once again, here is Rita Cosby.

COSBY:  And one week after the storm, Hurricane Wilma claims another victim, trick-or-treating.  Because of ongoing major power outages, the annual Halloween tradition is canceled.  Amora Sohn from NBC station WTVJ out of Miami joins me now live wit the story of many disappointed children.  Amora, this has got to be devastating for the kids there.

AMORA SOHN, WTVJ:  Yes, that‘s right, Rita.  Well, a lot of cities across south Florida basically canceled Halloween this year.  Now, Florida Power and Light says about 800,000 people are still in the dark tonight.  That coupled with debris laying in the middle of the road, not safe for children to be trick-or-treating tonight.  But as you can see behind me, there are a few cities able to still celebrate Halloween.


SOHN (voice-over):  This year, it truly is a happy Halloween after Hurricane Wilma nearly blew south Florida‘s plans away.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE:  By our house, we have a street that always we trick-or-treat at that place.  And it‘s all canceled.  All the haunted houses are canceled.

SOHN:  Coral Gables one of the few cities that did not cancel its Halloween events.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE:  Exciting, really exciting!

SOHN:  Why are you so excited?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE:  I get to see all my friends, it‘s fun just going trick-or-treating. 

SOHN:  They came in droves from their powerless cities to trick-or-treat on Miracle Mile, quickly depleting the candy supply. 

SUSY CARZO, TRICK-OR-TREATING WITH KIDS:  Getting out of the house has been the best feeling.  We would go anywhere, actually, but it‘s been great, because we‘re still without electricity. 

EDUARDO REYES, TRICK-OR-TREATING WITH KIDS:  Everybody has a little downed trees, a little garbage, and tree fallings in the sidewalks.  Nowhere too safe for the kids to walk around there.  So we just figured we‘d come all the way to Coral Gables, have a great idea out here in Miracle Mile. 

SGT. MIKE FREVOLA, CORAL GABLES POLICE DEPARTMENT:  Other cities may not have had the power and the ability to handle this event.  And, luckily for us, we are able to do it. 

SOHN:  No classes for the past week, but the kids quickly learned no power plus no school equals boredom. 

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  First of all, is you get very impatient, because there‘s no electricity.  It‘s really hot inside the house. 

SOHN:  So finally some sense of normalcy here...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE:  Halloween is still going on. 

SOHN:  ... making Wilma a thing of the Stone Age past. 

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  Happy Halloween.  Ah, woo!


SOHN:  And exactly after one week after Hurricane Wilma hit, the curfews for both Miami-Dade and Broward Counties were lifted today.  So the people here at the Miami International Mall‘s Haunted House able to stay out as late as they want.  But officials are asking parents to limit their children‘s activities. 

We‘re live in Miami.  I‘m Amora Sohn.  Rita, back to you.

COSBY:  Amora, two quick questions:  First, when is the power going to be back on for those folks who don‘t have it?  And, two, are you seeing extra security out tonight? 

SOHN:  Well, first off, Florida Power and Light, or FPL as we call it, says that the latest it‘ll come back on is November 23 or so.  So that is obviously being as pessimistic as they can be.  And as far as security goes, we are seeing a lot of security, but probably not as more as you would expect. 

COSBY:  Yes, absolutely.  So power back on for Thanksgiving.  All right, Amora, thank you very much. 

Well, tonight, while Halloween festivities are taking place all over the country, the city of New Orleans is scaling back on tradition because of the real-life horrors that Hurricane Katrina left behind there. 

The town best known for its haunted history usually draws thousands of tourists for elaborate costume parties and parades, especially in the French Quarter on this day.  Unfortunately, Katrina has literally turned the French Quarter into a ghost town. 

Several events, including concerts and fundraisers, were scaled back. 

A lot of the events were even cancelled. 

Well, a brand-new law is in effect tonight on this Halloween eve.  New Jersey is cracking down hard on sex offenders, convicted ones.  A Halloween curfew called for all convicted sex offenders to be home by 7:00 tonight, about two-and-a-half hours ago. 

Parole officers literally went knocking on their doors this evening.  And we took a ride with them earlier to see for ourselves.  Joining us now by phone is Thomas James.  He‘s the director of the New Jersey State Parole Division. 

Mr. James, how many New Jersey officers are out sort of doing this door-to-door? 

THOMAS JAMES, DIRECTOR, NEW JERSEY STATE PAROLE DIVISION:  Rita, we had over 100 officers out on the street this evening. 

COSBY:  You did?  And how successful were they?  Like, how many of the folks were actually home when they knocked on the door? 

T. JAMES:  Actually, the evening was quite quiet.  And it was a major success.  There was only one fugitive apprehension.  And that person was apprehended near the district office, actually, walking around. 

COSBY:  What was he doing?  Was he trick-or-treating? 


T. JAMES:  No, he wasn‘t.  I don‘t have the full details of that arrest.  I won‘t get that until tomorrow morning sometime when I receive my after-action reports. 

COSBY:  Now, what happens, Director?  You know, we were out on the patrol, where we‘re looking at some shots here.  You guys were kind enough to let us join you.  And at one of the doors—we knocked on one of the doors—the guy wasn‘t home. 

What kind of repercussions—again, it was right before 7:00, so they may have made it back in time for the curfew.  But what kind of repercussions, if they aren‘t back home, after 7:00? 

T. JAMES:  If an individual wasn‘t home at 7:00, number one, we would have left instructions for him to report the next day.  We also had surveillance units out and response team units out to, in fact, track that individual.  If he did not come home, he would be subject to arrest. 

COSBY:  How are you guiding your officers, in terms of directing to approach these guys? 

T. JAMES:  Actually, I‘m in my mobile command unit right now.  And we had an operations meeting this morning.  And basically what I told my officers, that if folks were substantially in compliance, we would speak for them.  If they were not in compliance, then, once again, they would have been subject to arrest.  And we would have filed a complaint with the prosecutor‘s office. 

COSBY:  Now, I know a lot of the parole officers are working hard.  I want to show a comment from one of the guys that we were out with just a little bit ago.  Here‘s what he had to say. 


UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  If they‘re not home by 7:00, we send a response team out to the house to make sure that they‘re actually in later on at night.  But we‘ll take sanctions against them when we see them next.  They might get another curfew.  They‘ll probably got to go to counseling, report to us a little more often.  We‘ll definitely take sanctions.  This can‘t go unaddressed. 


COSBY:  You know, Director, why is Halloween such a vulnerable time?  Why did you think—you know, and the governor particularly—that it‘s important to do this? 

T. JAMES:  Well, the idea behind this operation was to keep our children safe and to send a message out to the sex offenders, indicating to them that we‘re out there watching them, we‘re out there looking at them. 

Sometime ago, there was a young youngster by the name of Ed Warner (ph), actually, who went door-to-door selling candy.  And the results of that operation was that he was killed, actually.  And we‘re trying to prevent that from happening in the future. 

COSBY:  Absolutely.  Well, it sounds like an important thing.  And thank you very much.  And we‘re going to follow up with you and see how many folks actually were arrested all over the state and what happened. 

Thank you very much. 

Meantime, Halloween fun gets out of control in Madison, Wisconsin, again.  Every year, police try to contain this Halloween bash on State Street.  This year, over 400 arrests were made.  And, believe it or not, this is considered a calm year. 

Joining us now right on State Street with the details is Darryl Schnell.  He‘s a senior at the University of Wisconsin at Madison and also the city editor of the “Badger Herald,” which is a student newspaper. 

Darryl, you‘re telling me that this was a calm year, in comparison? 

DARRYL SCHNELL, “THE BADGER HERALD”:  In comparison to the years prior.  The events—the riots actually started—or, the rioting behavior started in 2002.  Compared to those years, yes, this was definitely a more calm year. 

COSBY:  My gosh, what happened in the other years, Darryl? 

SCHNELL:  The other years, you know, we saw things like property damage, a lot of destruction, you know, fires, bonfires lit in the street, things like that, mainly property destruction. 

We also saw, you know, a few injuries.  But, you know, I mean, this year, the lack of property destruction and things like that, you know, have, you know, really, you know, kind of played through here. 

COSBY:  Now, 400 people arrested.  What were the charges, Darryl? 

SCHNELL:  The charges ranged from—well, we got—we have to be clear about one thing.  And that‘s that the majority of those arrests were due to alcohol violations.  There were several—but when I say “several,” I mean hundreds of under-aged drinking tickets given out and also a lot of open intoxicants violations.  So that was the majority of them. 

COSBY:  What‘s the worst thing you saw now, as we‘re looking at some of these pictures?  What are some of the craziest things these people do? 


SCHNELL:  Well, you know, the thing that I was most shocked with was that I was standing out actually right around where I am right now and watching, you know, the mounted police being, you know, pelted with, you know, projectiles.  I saw one officer get drilled in the face with a cup full of ice. 

COSBY:  Why are the revelers so angry at the police to do those kind of things?  Or are they just hitting anyone in sight? 

SCHNELL:  I don‘t think it‘s necessarily that the revelers are angry with the police.  I think that people come here to Madison—I mean, almost 100,000 people were on the street last night.  And people come here to Madison. 

And I think a small group of the people that come here to Madison come here to riot.  That‘s their intention.  And now, the police did quell the riots before it came about.  But, you know, I think that‘s the reason people come here.  And, you know, the crowd‘s going to get raucous when that happens. 

COSBY:  Why do people do this every year?  Why is this such a tradition?  And what‘s the scene like there now? 

SCHNELL:  The scene now is—it looks pretty nice up and down State Street right now. 

COSBY:  Yes, it looks a lot calmer than the picture.

SCHNELL:  It‘s easy to (INAUDIBLE) than cleaning up.  Right, yes, yes, definitely. 

But, you know, people—the history of Halloween goes back to 1979.  And, you know, and when we see, you know, like, what happened then, you know, there were some, you know, riots.  There were no riots.  No, there were no riots, but, you know, there was some destruction, some broken windows and things.  But we saw those as accidents.

When it came to 2002, the riots got—it seemed more intentional.  At least the city interpreted it as more intentional.  And I tend to agree with the city on that stance. 

And, you know, it just seems like people come back here now to, you know, just kind of—just do the riots all over again every year. 

COSBY:  Crazy stuff.  And, of course, it‘s OK to have fun, but not to go after those cops.  Darryl, thank you very much for joining us. 

SCHNELL:  Indeed, yes. 

COSBY:  I‘m glad it‘s a lot calmer now.


COSBY:  Thank you. 

And next on LIVE & DIRECT, Prince Charles and Camilla coming to the United States.  But will the newlyweds win over skeptics by eating organic vegetables?   We will show you one of their unlikely destinations.  Not where you‘d expect. 

And later, the Vegas real estate market is one of the hottest around.  Now one resident is gambling that even this rundown shack is going to help him strike it rich.  That‘s coming up.



PRINCE CHARLES, PRINCE OF WALES:  I find myself born into this particular position.  I‘m determined to make the most of it and to do whatever I can to help and, I hope, leave things behind a little bit better than I‘ve found them.


COSBY:  And that was Prince Charles being interviewed in last night‘s edition of “60 Minutes.”  Royal-watching on this side of the pond kicks into full gear tomorrow, as the prince and the duchess of Cornwall arrive for a week of royal hobnobbing. 

It begins in New York, where they will unveil a memorial to victims of 9/11.  Then they‘re going to go to Washington to dine at the White House with the president and the first lady, then to New Orleans, where they‘re going to meet with Gulf Coast residents.  And finally, a most unusual stop to Marin County, California.  They‘re going to visit organic farms and farm stands. 

To tell us more about this, we‘re going to be joined by Helge Hellberg, who will personally give the royals that organic farming tour.  And also humorist and host of his own Sirius satellite radio, Martin Lewis. 

Helge, let me start with you.  What are they going to do during the visit to your farm? 

HELGE HELLBERG, EXEC. DIR., MARIN ORGANIC:  Well, Marin Organic is an association of organic producers in Marin County.  And we are trying to create the first all-organic county in the nation, which means not just organic food production but also organic hospital food, organic food in schools, so that our students can eat better.  So we‘ll talk about all of that with his royal highness. 

COSBY:  Now, how did his royal highness get interested in organic?  A lot of people who were going, “What?”

HELLBERG:  I‘m not sure how he got into it, but he‘s an avid organic gardener and farmer.  He has his own organic farm.  And we just sent him a few of our new farmer calendar that we just produced.  And he said, “Yes, I want to see that.”  That‘s the simple story. 

COSBY:  Yes, lucky.  Good, that‘s got to be fascinating. 

Martin, what do you make of this, organic foods and Prince Charles? 

MARTIN LEWIS, HUMORIST:  Well, Prince Charles has always been interested in things organic and ecology.  I think it‘s actually going to be a very welcomed visit for him. 

I‘ve just checked with the White House and, in contrast to the 1985 rather grand banquet that Ronald and Nancy Reagan gave, the menu includes, I think, it‘s barbecued bronco ribs and beans, which is not quite the same sort of fare they normally have at Buckingham palace.  So I think the organic vegetables will go down a treat when he gets there. 

COSBY:  Yes, you know, Martin, you know, when you talk about the visit, coming here to the U.S., it‘s a bad week to be visiting.  There‘s a lot on the White House‘s plate.  Is this going to be front-page in the U.S.  or in London? 

LEWIS:  I think it‘s going to be page 19 below the fold.  It‘s not been a great timing for a visit.  At least they‘re going to be coming after Halloween, so they‘ll avoid all the Halloween jokes about Camilla, which would otherwise be there, unfortunately.

But, you know, the topics of conversations, say, between Prince Charles and George W. Bush may be difficult, may be a little strained.  Prince Charles is recently on record as saying, for example, that he believes global warming is one of the greatest dangers facing the Earth.  And, of course, President Bush tends to favor a faith-based solution to global warming.  So there‘s not really a meeting of minds here. 

COSBY:  Now, Martin, how are they at small talk? 

LEWIS:  Well, small talk, they‘re both a little bit on the awkward side.  And I think one of the things, though, that the royal family does tend to like is a little bit of glamour. 

You may remember that wonderful occasion in 1985 that, because Ronald Reagan had some of his Hollywood friends there, Princess Diana got to dance with John Travolta. 

Now, that‘s not, obviously, George Bush‘s style.  He has called up a few of his Hollywood friends, though, of course they‘re not so glamorous.  I think Camilla is going to be dancing with Erik Estrada, which will be, you know, something different. 


COSBY:  That‘ll definitely be different. 

Helge, let me bring you in, in terms of the visit to you.  I imagine they‘re going to be pretty casual.  They‘re going to have to be, right? 

HELLBERG:  Well, actually, the forecast has bright weather for Point Reyes Station for next Saturday.  So we‘re really looking forward to that visit. 

And, again, just to elaborate on how he came out.  The sustainable efforts in Marin County are going back 30 years ago or so when it first started.  We have the oldest continuously certified organic farm in California.  And all that, all of those stories, are in the 2006 Marin Organic Farmer Calendar... 

COSBY:  And that‘s what you sent him, right?  That‘s what you actually sent to the prince? 

HELLBERG:  Yes, that‘s correct.  Yes, I‘m not sure if the cover is in the picture, but that‘s what we sent him.  And, yes, the story of sustainable efforts in Marin County is what makes Marin so unique.  It‘s in this calendar.  And that‘s part of the reason why he‘s coming here. 

COSBY:  And, I‘ll tell you, it is a beautiful county. 

You know, Martin, are you hoping to get one of those calendars soon? 

LEWIS:  I was going to say, I feel rather left out.  I was going to show you my beefcake calendar, but I‘d just forgotten to bring a copy with me today.  But I‘m sure—I‘m going to send it to Prince Charles and Camilla, of course. 

COSBY:  What do you think is going to be the most memorable part of their visit, Martin? 

LEWIS:  On a serious note, I know that Prince Charles is going to

really appreciate the visit to New Orleans in particular.  Through his life

I mean, you know, I‘m a humorist, I make jokes—but Prince Charles has had a very good charitable side. 

And he‘s really cared, particularly about the less fortunate and disadvantaged in society.  So I think that the visit there will really mean something to him.  And I think it will lift the spirits there to have a real live prince. 

And, of course, you‘re also going to get somebody who shows—you know, we live in a society, Rita, you know, where oftentimes a middle-aged man will dump his young, beautiful wife—I‘m sorry, dump the old, frowsy wife and go off with the young, beautiful blond. 

You have to admire Prince Charles.  He‘s going to set an example for middle-aged men, because he got rid of the young, beautiful wife and went off with somebody who looked older than his mum.  So I think this is something that sets a good example in society. 


COSBY:  And he‘s going to be going to the organic farm, where Helge and his guys are.  Thank you both very much.  Really appreciate both of you.  Enjoy the visit here, too. 

And still ahead on LIVE & DIRECT, talk about Vegas odds.  You‘re never going to guess what one man is betting someone will pay for this shack.  You are going to be shocked.  That‘s next on LIVE & DIRECT.


COSBY:  Well, Las Vegas is the fastest growing area in the United States and in the middle of a building boom, too.  Hotels, homes, condos, big land deals, despite all of that, you will still be stunned to hear how much the owner of this shack is asking for.  Get this:  A whopping $1.2 million, yes, $1.2 million. 

Who does this owner think he is, Donald Trump?  Joining me is Las Vegas Prudential Real Estate agent, Georgia James, who likes the property, but still says, “No dice.” 

Georgia, is it worth $1.2 million? 

GEORGIA JAMES, LAS VEGAS REAL ESTATE AGENT:  The land probably is worth a million, but if you offered him $1.2, he would ask for $2 million. 

COSBY:  So what is this?  Is this just a little game for him, knowing that Las Vegas is so hot? 

G. JAMES:  That‘s right.  It‘s a game for him.  He‘s been playing it for many years. 

COSBY:  Where do you think he‘ll stop?  If we said $1.5 or $2, do you think he‘d finally call it in, throw the cards in? 

G. JAMES:  He says he will, but who knows with Manuel? 

COSBY:  You know, who is Manuel?  Who is the owner of this wacky place, if we can put it up, $1.2? 

G. JAMES:  Manuel is right across from the Allure but he feels like he‘s got something.  But they can build around him, or he‘ll get his money. 

COSBY:  I want to show—you know, and I know you know this all too well—what a $1.2 million can buy you.  We‘ve got some pictures of other things that look a little different than Manuel‘s operation, what you could actually get for $1.2.  We have some different pictures of places.

This is a home here, where the owner—oh wait, what is this right here, you guys?  This is another home.  This is $1.2 million.  Let‘s see if we‘ve got some other pictures of what $1.2 million can buy here.  There‘s a beautiful home right there, with some beautiful palm trees in front. 

Is it all about, I guess, location, location, location? 

G. JAMES:  Right, because before the Stratosphere was called Naked City and nobody wanted to buy down there.  Now it‘s close to the strip, and the high rises are coming to Las Vegas.  And that‘s where to build, it‘s right close to the strip. 

COSBY:  You know, that is—the other homes we were looking at are in Las Vegas, too, but, what, they‘re not just right in that strip area?  Is that the deal?

G. JAMES:  No.  This is Naked City.  It was built in, like, ‘50s and ‘60s, and it‘s just been run down.  It‘s been like the worst place in town.  And now it‘s like one of the most expensive places in town.  But it‘s great for high rises. 

COSBY:  But it still keeps the name Naked City, huh? 

G. JAMES:  It sure does. 

COSBY:  And I‘m sure there‘s some good stories, Georgia. 

G. JAMES:  You want to hear one? 

COSBY:  Yes, sure, a real short one. 

G. JAMES:  Yes.  The show girls used to live down there in the ‘50s and ‘60s.  No tanning booth.  They ran around the strip, around the pools naked.  And that‘s how they had no tan lines.  That‘s how it got the name of Naked City. 

COSBY:  Well, now I totally understand.  I didn‘t know that.


Now, you would pay a million bucks for that property.  How many other properties are like that, that are just so run down, but in a good spot in Vegas? 

G. JAMES:  Well, a lot—now, that‘s probably—there‘s other properties in that area, but they usually bulldoze them down.  Manuel just keeps his up.

COSBY:  Are there other folks who are sort of holding out like Manuel? 

G. JAMES:  There sure are. 

COSBY:  How many?  I mean, are we talking tons?

G. JAMES:  Oh, I would say there‘s probably about 10 that are holding out, but it stops assemblage, so somebody can build a high rise when you have one that holds out. 

COSBY:  And, Georgia, what‘s the most that you‘ve sold there in Vegas, because it is so hot? 

G. JAMES:  OK, well, right now, I‘ve got one in escrow for $8.5 million.  And it‘s right down the street from Manuel, probably five parcels away.  And that includes 13 parcels, 2.5 acres.  So, for $8.5 million, you can get two-and-a-half acres, compared to Manuel‘s. 

COSBY:  Well, don‘t tell Manuel.  He‘ll try to jack his up to $8.6. 

G. JAMES:  Right, right, right. 


COSBY:  Georgia, thank you very much.  Great to have you on with us. 

G. JAMES:  Thank you for having me.  

COSBY:  Thank you.  And, everybody, we‘re going to be right back with more LIVE & DIRECT.


COSBY:  And, everybody, coming up on Wednesday night right here on LIVE & DIRECT, Tito Jackson, talking about the Jackson family secrets.  It should be a good one. 

But that does it for me tonight.  I hope you have a safe and very fun Halloween.  Thanks for joining us on LIVE & DIRECT.  I‘m Rita Cosby.

“SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY” starts right now—Joe?

JOE SCARBOROUGH, HOST:  Thanks so much, Rita.  Trick or treat.  Happy Halloween.

COSBY:  Thank you.  You, too.

SCARBOROUGH:  Can I say that?  Is that politically correct?  I think it is.