CHUCK TODD:This Sunday, Omarosa, one on one. They met on The Apprentice.
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP:I adore you. We've had tremendous success together.
OMAROSA MANIGAULT NEWMAN:Absolutely.
CHUCK TODD:In 2016, she campaigned for him.
OMAROSA MANIGAULT NEWMAN:Let's make Mr. Trump the next president of the United States.
CHUCK TODD:And mocked his critics.
OMAROSA MANIGAULT NEWMAN:It is the ultimately revenge to become the most powerful man in the universe.
CHUCK TODD:As President Donald Trump said, "You're hired at the White House." But now she says Mr. Trump used the N word at The Apprentice.
OMAROSA MANIGAULT NEWMAN:It had finally sunk in that the person I thought I'd known so well for so long was actually a racist.
CHUCK TODD:There's also this.
OMAROSA MANIGAULT NEWMAN:His mental decline could not be denied.
CHUCK TODD:And she has a recording of her firing by John Kelly.
OMAROSA MANIGAULT NEWMAN:Was the president aware of this?
JOHN KELLY:Don’t do -- let’s not go down the road. This is a non-negotiable discussion.
CHUCK TODD:Yesterday, President Trump weighed in.
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP:She's a lowlife.
CHUCK TODD:Is this a rare inside look at the Trump White House or the work of a disgruntled employee humiliated by her public firing? This morning, my interview with Omarosa Manigault Newman. Plus, midterm preview. What that neck-and-neck special election in a red district in Ohio tells us about a possible blue wave Republicans may be facing in November. I talked with Ohio's Republican Governor John Kasich who may take on President Trump in 2020. Joining me for insight and analysis are NBC News White House Correspondent Kristen Welker, New York Times columnist David Brooks, former Democratic Congresswoman Donna Edwards, and former Republican Governor of North Carolina Pat McCrory. Welcome to Sunday, it's Meet the Press.
ANNOUNCER:From NBC News in Washington, the longest-running show in television history, this is Meet the Press with Chuck Todd.
CHUCK TODD:Good Sunday morning. She was a reality TV star who wound up working in a reality TV star's White House. By her own admission, Omarosa Manigault Newman and Donald Trump used each other. In her new book Unhinged: An Insider's Account of the Trump White House, Omarosa writes, "Donald and I had a symbiotic relationship, as I've said. I gave him ratings, and he gave me, a woman of color, opportunities." That relationship started on The Apprentice in 2004 and continued through a series of reality TV shows.
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP:I adore you. We've had tremendous success together. You helped make me a star. Dennis, she helped to make me a star. But Omarosa, you're fired.
CHUCK TODD:In 2016, she joined the Trump campaign as director of African-American Outreach on the trail and subsequently as the most senior African American woman on the White House staff. And she became one of Mr. Trump's most vocal supporters.
OMAROSA MANIGAULT NEWMAN:When I say Trump train, I want you to say, "Choo choo." Y'all ready? Every critic, every detractor will have to bow down to President Trump. I had the honor to travel around the country with the president for the last two years. You all know him as the president, I know him as a friend. I know his heart.
CHUCK TODD:But since she was fired in December, she's turned on President Trump. And now in her new book, she calls the president a racist, a bigot, and a misogynist and says he is losing his mental facilities. The White House has fired back in a statement, quote, "This book is riddled with lies and false accusations. It's sad that a disgruntled former White House employee is trying to profit off these false attacks." And Omarosa has a recording that she says she recently made -- that she secretly made of her firing by John Kelly.
JOHN KELLY:We've got to talk to you about leaving the White House. It's come to my attention over the last few months that there's been some pretty, in my opinion, significant integrity issues.
CHUCK TODD:You're going to hear more of that recording in a moment. So Omarosa Manigault Newman, former assistant to President Trump, director of communications for the White House, office public liaison, joins me now.
OMAROSA MANIGAULT NEWMAN:
Thank you for having me, Chuck.
CHUCK TODD:
Welcome to Meet the Press. Let me start with what you describe in your book as a year-long effort to learn the truth about a rumor that Donald Trump had been caught on tape using the n-word while working on The Apprentice. And here’s how you wrote about confirming with a source that the tape does in fact exist. Page 322 of your book, “On this phone conversation, I was told exactly what Donald Trump said yes – the N-word and others in a classic Trump-goes-nuclear rant – and when he’d said them. During production he was miked and there is definitely an audio track. For over a year I’d been so afraid of hearing the specifics from someone who’d been in the room. Hearing the truth freed me from that fear.” Did you hear the tape? Or did you hear a description of the tape?
OMAROSA MANIGAULT NEWMAN:
Well first of all thank you for having me on. And in this book I describe this long journey of hearing these rumors over and over again, and when I had an opportunity to meet up with three different sources, they described the same exact statements. After I closed the book, I had an opportunity to go out in Los Angeles and sit down with the person who actually has a copy of the tape. And I heard his voice, as clear as you and I are sitting here.
CHUCK TODD:
So you have heard the tape?
OMAROSA MANIGAULT NEWMAN:
I have heard the tape.
CHUCK TODD:
Since publication of this book?
OMAROSA MANIGAULT NEWMAN:
Absolutely.
CHUCK TODD:
So you know it exists?
OMAROSA MANIGAULT NEWMAN:
And I know it exists. And, what I regret is that these people are probably trying to leverage it as this October surprise and I don't want to be a part of that. But I have heard for two years that it existed and once I heard it for myself, it was confirmed what I feared the most. That Donald Trump is a con and has been masquerading as someone who is actually open to engaging with diverse communities but when he talks that way, the way he did on this tape, it confirmed that he is truly a racist.
CHUCK TODD:
Why didn’t you get that in your book?
OMAROSA MANIGAULT NEWMAN:
Closed too soon. And I have been tracking, tracking. This person is so afraid because of the forces who are working to keep this tape from coming out. I mean, we first heard about it in the fall of 2016, we got on a conference call with Katrina Pearson, Lynn Patton, and Jason Miller, as you’ll see in the book, and they all suspected that it was true. In fact, Katrina Pearson, the spokeswoman for the campaign said, “Oh, he said it. It’s true.”
CHUCK TODD:
But she never heard her say it? And she -- heard him say it and she has – she’s denied the anecdote.
OMAROSA MANIGAULT NEWMAN:
Is she denying? I mean she knows I have receipts. I think she should probably read the book first.
CHUCK TODD:
Let me ask you this, have you—
OMAROSA MANIGAULT NEWMAN:
And then hear herself saying it—
CHUCK TODD:
Before listening to that tape, before getting the tape that you just described, had you ever heard him -- were you ever in his presence when he used a racial slur?
OMAROSA MANIGAULT NEWMAN:
You know, I was in his presence when he said inappropriate things but he has never said the n-word in my presence. Ever.
CHUCK TODD:
Alright. Let me move on because you said that the betrayal, the idea that he might have used this word, that it would be this betrayal because you thought it would mean that he might have used it about you.
OMAROSA MANIGAULT NEWMAN:
Oh, abso-
CHUCK TODD:
Do you believe he used it about you?
OMAROSA MANIGAULT NEWMAN:
Possibly, because Donald Trump talks about everyone behind their back. You leave the room, Chuck, he has a nickname probably for you. He has a nickname for everyone in his administration, and in his circle. So I am pretty certain that he's probably said some very derogatory things about me. In fact, yesterday, on this moment before Charlottesville, the anniversary of Charlottesville, instead of talking about how to unify the nation, he actually insulted me by calling me a 'lowlife'. That is a man who is inclined to start racially charged engagement, and use race to kind of stir up his base.
CHUCK TODD:
Here's what, I think, a lot of people are going to have trouble with. He has said a lot of racial things. He said a lot of racial things during the campaign, calling Mexicans rapists, attacking a federal judge because he was hispanic, you even talk about his obsession with the "Central Park Five" mythology there. Retweeting false crime statistics. All of that was taking place, and you said, you acknowledged that he did things things that were racial -- that he used race to manipulate people. You've said all those things. And then you wrote this in December of 2016: "I am living the American dream because of Donald Trump. Look at my career, the wealth and exposure that I've had: It's very difficult to make the argument that Donald Trump doesn't like black people and black women."
OMAROSA MANIGAULT NEWMAN:
Absolutely. Being used by Donald Trump for so long. I was like the frog in the hot water. You don't know that you're in that situation until it just keeps bubbling and bubbling. It's clear in hindsight, because hindsight, of course is twenty twenty, that as I talk about in Unhinged, you get to see, from 2003 when I first met Donald Trump, the evolution of the very unique relationship between he and I. And I talked very, very intimately about the things that he said. His, his pledge to do more for the community. His, as I said, investment in my own career. But what I know now, I didn't have the benefit of in 2003, or 2004, or 2010. And so yes, it is hindsight. But I will say this to you, I was complicit with this White House deceiving this nation. They continue to deceive this nation by how mentally declined he is, how difficult it is for him to process complex information, how he is not engaged in some of the most important decisions that impacts our country. I was complicit and for that I regret.
CHUCK TODD:
Well, one of those moments of complicity took place after Charlottesville.
OMAROSA MANIGAULT NEWMAN:
Oh yeah.
CHUCK TODD:
This is, the president, the day after Charlottesville, he condemned the egregious display of hatred, bigotry, and violence on many sides. This is before he said the both sides comment. But on -- he had already used the phrase many sides. Two days later you were on Fox News defending him. Here's what you said.
OMAROSA MANIGAULT NEWMAN:
Yeah.
(BEGIN TAPE)
OMAROSA MANIGAULT NEWMAN:
President Trump, he said that he condemned the acts. He knew that they were disgusting and loathsome. But he did not come out until the facts were known about the investigation. And today, he made a statement that was very clear, and very decisive about where he stood on these acts.
(END TAPE)
CHUCK TODD:
What do you think of that, Omarosa?
OMAROSA MANIGAULT NEWMAN:
Well, absolutely. I mean, as you said it was –
CHUCK TODD:
That's complicit? Was that complicit, Omarosa?
OMAROSA MANIGAULT NEWMAN:
Oh, totally complicit. In fact, I had a blind spot where it came to Donald Trump. I wanted to see the best in him. And obviously I, I felt miserably. Because after that he gets up and he says that there are good people on both sides, when he should have been denouncing what we saw as, clearly, racist Nazis going against the grain of this country. And it's just really difficult to see that I was so much a part of this. And I accept and I admit that I was. But now I think it's important that, as we are celebrating -- well, actually observing --the anniversary of Charlottesville, that he has an opportunity actually to bring the country together but you'll see that he doesn't have the ability to do that because he puts himself over country every day.
CHUCK TODD:
Here’s what many people are saying though. That after Charlottesville, you didn’t resign. And yes, you wanted to work on the, I think, Historical Black College initiative--
OMAROSA MANIGAULT NEWMAN:
Which would have been a month later –
CHUCK TODD:
I understand that, I understand that. But then you didn’t leave after that. You didn’t leave after he had that unfortunate call with the widow of the dead soldier. You didn’t leave after he called kneeling NFL players S-O-Bs. And this is what Jelani Cobb wrote in The New Yorker about your new perspective, “Her realization about Trump’s outlook appears to have emerged at some point during her book deal. That’s not a gradual awakening, it’s a glacial, self-interested one.” There’s going to be many people here that say, “You’re now identifying him as a racist after you got your book deal.” What do you say to that criticism?
OMAROSA MANIGAULT NEWMAN:
Well, first of all, I need to push back about that. First of all, I am an author, this is my third book. I write about my life. I write about the things that happen in my life. So the assertion that I just woke up and decided I’m going to write a book when this is my third book that’s, you know, I have to push on that. But certainly, I was working to try to find someone who could take my place. I was the only African-American at the table. If I left, which I did, when I left, there has been no new appointment of an African-American assistant to the president, which means that people are making decisions about us, without us. And as I work to try to find that replacement, I realize that they could care less about having an African-American voice at the table. And to this day, there is no one serving in that administration in the role that I was in, and that’s a great void. And so the people that want to judge, should probably read the book first, and at least give me an opportunity to examine the journey that I was on, before making decisions and judgments about my story without reading it.
CHUCK TODD:
I think arguments some have made, and I’ve heard it –
OMAROSA MANIGAULT NEWMAN:
But they should read it, first.
CHUCK TODD:
-- would say, you know, part of the reason that you’re there is to stand in front of the racial freight train, and that you didn’t do that. That you – and you’ve admitted that you were complicit –
OMAROSA MANIGAULT NEWMAN:
I described myself as a guard rail in the book. I’m not, it’s not intended –
CHUCK TODD:
Were you a good guard rail?
OMAROSA MANIGAULT NEWMAN:
Oh, I got banged up a lot. I got banged up by people who thought that there should be no African-Americans in this administration. And they're seeing the result of having absolutely no voice. That it is impacting the policies that affect our children, inner cities, policies that inform all the things that are happening in regards to crime, particularly in Chicago as we see the death. Without a voice there, you're going to continue to see them neglect the needs of a community that really does need leadership right now.
CHUCK TODD: Alright. I want to go to your White House time and we'll start—
OMAROSA MANIGAULT NEWMAN:
Please.
CHUCK TODD:
-- on your last day. Were you fired or did you resign? What's the story?
OMAROSA MANIGAULT NEWMAN:
Oh, it's –
CHUCK TODD:
What, what, what do we call this?
OMAROSA MANIGAULT NEWMAN:
It's pretty clear from that recording that John Kelly came in and said "This is the end, we want you to leave." But what's interesting is, they take me into the Situation Room, the doors are locked. They tell me I can't leave. And they start to threaten me, put fear in me, to put me under duress.
CHUCK TODD:
Look I'm going to play -- I want to play this tape but I'm curious, how is it -- you recorded the Chief of Staff –
OMAROSA MANIGAULT NEWMAN:
Absolutely.
CHUCK TODD:
The White House Chief of Staff in the Situation Room –
OMAROSA MANIGAULT NEWMAN:
Yes, yes.
CHUCK TODD:
And this takes place before the Christmas party –
OMAROSA MANIGAULT NEWMAN:
In the Situation Room.
CHUCK TODD:
And you're prepared in a moment’s notice to record him? Or were you planning to record him the minute you found out you had this meeting?
OMAROSA MANIGAULT NEWMAN:
Well no, first of all, like I said I'm the only African-American there. When you walk into a meeting with John Kelly who’s refused to meet with me the whole time he's there, in the Situation Room, Chuck. We're not going in there to talk about, you know, parking or scheduling issues –
CHUCK TODD:
You knew this was going to be about your job?
OMAROSA MANIGAULT NEWMAN:
We're going in there to talk about something very serious.
CHUCK TODD:
You prepared to tape?
OMAROSA MANIGAULT NEWMAN:
I was prepared because -- first of all, John Kelly had been very vocal about trying to find a reason to let me go. He had gone to the press instead of coming to me. Never giving me an opportunity to meet with him. So the question is, why not have the meeting in the Chief of Staff's office? Why put me in the Situation Room, lock the door, and tell me over and over again -- as they'll hear - -they'll hear his part -- that I couldn't leave. That I couldn't consult an attorney. That I couldn't talk to my husband who was sitting outside of the door. Yes I was prepared. And as you'll see in Unhinged –
CHUCK TODD:
How often did you tape people?
OMAROSA MANIGAULT NEWMAN:
Wait Chuck.
CHUCK TODD:
I know, how often did you tape people?
OMAROSA MANIGAULT NEWMAN:
As you'll see in Unhinged, I protected myself because this is a White House where everybody lies. The president lies to the American people. Sarah Huckabee stands in front of the country and lies every single day. You have to have your own back because otherwise you'll look back and you'll see 17 knives in your back.
CHUCK TODD:
Do you know how disloyal it looks, though, that you taped people –
OMAROSA MANIGAULT NEWMAN:
That’s not disloyalty
CHUCK TODD:
-- that you taped people that you worked with?
OMAROSA MANIGAULT NEWMAN:
That's not disloyalty. Because let me tell you Chuck, if I did not have this recording, people would still believe the false, incredible story that I was running around the White House. The false story that was told by a reporter and repeated by this network and other reporters that I tried to charge the residence of the White House, and it's a lie. If I didn't have this recording, listen, people would still think that I was trying to set off alarms. So yes I had to protect myself and I have no regret about it.
CHUCK TODD:
Let's listen to the recording.
[BEGIN TAPE]
JOHN KELLY:
I think it's important to understand that if we make this a friendly departure we can all be, you know, you can look at your time here in the White House as a year of service to the nation. And then you can go on without any type of difficulty in the future relative to you reputation.
[END TAPE]
CHUCK TODD:
How did you take that comment about your reputation?
OMAROSA MANIGAULT NEWMAN:
It’s very obvious a threat. He goes on to say that things can get ugly for you, the Chief of Staff of the United States, under the direction of the President of the United States, threatening me on damage to my reputation and things getting ugly for me. That’s downright criminal. And if I didn’t have these recordings, no one in America would believe me. No one. So I protected myself and I’m going to tell you, I’m so glad I did, because now we can put to bed all those false rumors that that one reporter stated, and the false reports that were spread around by the media.
CHUCK TODD:
Alright, let me play the portion where you jump in and have a conversation with Mr. Kelly.
OMAROSA MANIGAULT NEWMAN:
Please.
[BEGIN TAPE]
OMAROSA MANIGAULT NEWMAN :
Can I ask you a couple questions? Does the president – is the president aware of what’s going on?
JOHN KELLY:
Don’t do – let’s not go down the road. This is non-negotiable discussion.
OMAROSA MANIGAULT NEWMAN:
I don’t want to negotiate. I just I’ve never talked – had a chance to talk to you General Kelly so if this is my departure I’d like to have at least an opportunity to understand.
JOHN KELLY:
We can, we can talk another time. This has to do with some pretty serious – integrity violations. So I’ll let it go at that. So the staff and everyone on the staff works for me not the president.
[END TAPE]
CHUCK TODD:
You’ve made no bones about that you have a lot of tapes.
OMAROSA MANIGAULT NEWMAN:
Wait, he just said the staff and everybody works for him, not the president.
CHUCK TODD:
Right.
OMAROSA MANIGAULT NEWMAN:
You don’t have a problem with that, Chuck? The staff –
CHUCK TODD:
There’s many White Houses, for what it’s worth, many White Houses are organized that way, where the Chief of Staff is the lead—
OMAROSA MANIGAULT NEWMAN:
It tells you that Donald Trump has no idea what’s happening in the White House. He has no clue.
CHUCK TODD:
Are you convinced he did not know at that minute that you were being fired?
OMAROSA MANIGAULT NEWMAN:
No, I know he knows.
CHUCK TODD:
Okay.
OMAROSA MANIGAULT NEWMAN:
Because I’ve talked to him subsequently, and he said he delegated. “I delegated.” So he knew. He knew that John Kelly was going to take me into the Situation Room, and lock me in there, threaten me, and say that things were going to get ugly for me, and there would be damage to my reputation. And you know what, the next day, there was damage to my reputation. Because they then put out a story using and exploiting an African-American reporter to say that I was running around the residence and trying to break into a Christmas party, which is ludicrous, Chuck, and it’s unacceptable. And that’s the way these folks operate. When he said that people answer to him and not the president, that should be concerning for every single American that hears that.
CHUCK TODD:
Let me ask you about the integrity issues that he brought up. If you gave – if the White House asked for permission to release your file—
OMAROSA MANIGAULT NEWMAN:
I would love for them to do. I’m saying this right here –
CHUCK TODD:
You’re saying right now –
OMAROSA MANIGAULT NEWMAN:
--on Meet the Press.—
CHUCK TODD:
-- release the H.R. file of whatever violations –
OMAROSA MANIGAULT NEWMAN:
Please, please –
CHUCK TODD:
-- make it the public record.
OMAROSA MANIGAULT NEWMAN:
Let’s bring it all to light. I’m saying it right here, on Meet the Press. They accuse me -- you took a car to the National baseball game –
CHUCK TODD:
So if the White House today released—
OMAROSA MANIGAULT NEWMAN: Release it!
CHUCK TODD:
You’re okaying them—
OMAROSA MANIGAULT NEWMAN:
Absolutely.
CHUCK TODD:
-- every single transgression that General Kelly was referring to there?
OMAROSA MANIGAULT NEWMAN:
-- absolutely. Because at the same breath -- in the same breath, Rob Porter is accused of allegedly abusing his wives, and you know what John Kelly said about Rob Porter? He said he was a man of great integrity. And he’s accusing me of integrity violations. Please, I’m saying it right now, release it so the American people can see that I worked my butt off to make a difference in this country and they were looking for ways to frame me, and then, they tried to buy off my silence, which is also unlawful.
CHUCK TODD:
Alright, I want to get to that in a second, but the Daily Beast, in September of ‘17, when you're saying people were trying to—
OMAROSA MANIGAULT NEWMAN:
Chuck, are we really...quoting the Daily Beast on Meet the Press?
(OVERTALK)
CHUCK TODD:
...I want to, I want to ask you this. It says here that you were called the most despised person in the White House, that you would hijack White House meetings, that you would distract President Trump with negative news coverage. Could those be the reasons why John Kelly chose to fire you?
OMAROSA MANIGAULT NEWMAN:
Well at least they didn't call me “the coffee girl.” I mean that's an upgrade to their usual go-to excuses that they make when they mistreat people. People despise that I was close to this president, that I had access to him, that I talked to him often, and that I influenced his policy-making. I will admit to you, Chuck, there were times that Donald Trump asked me to do things that were just downright bizarre. He would say "Go and pull up this article about," for instance, "Joe Scarborough or Mika. I want to know about this and that." I wondered of course why he asked me. I wasn't his press secretary. But it was because he was working around the people who would put these guards up. And I-
(OVERTALK)
CHUCK TODD:
You were, you were the one-
OMAROSA MANIGAULT NEWMAN:
And I complied
CHUCK TODD:
-giving him the negative coverage-
OMAROSA MANIGAULT NEWMAN:
I was giving him whatever-
CHUCK TODD:
-what he wanted to see
OMAROSA MANIGAULT NEWMAN:
When the president calls you and says, "Get this and that for me," I did it. Yes, I was one of the people feeding him the things that he asked for, because he is the President of the United States. When he calls and asks, you answer.
CHUCK TODD:
Alright. You talked about that you were offered a job on the campaign. You have shown me the email, the offer, I have read the offer that you received from Lara Trump.
OMAROSA MANIGAULT NEWMAN:
It wasn't from Lara Trump. It was email from the campaign.
CHUCK TODD:
From, from the campaign.
OMAROSA MANIGAULT NEWMAN:
Yes
CHUCK TODD:
And I want to put up the non-disclosure agreement here. It is a very stringent one. It said this, the "No Disparagement" clause: "During the term of your service, and at all times thereafter, you hereby promise and agree not to demean or disparage publicly, in any form or through any medium, the Campaign, Mr. Trump, Mr. Pence, any Trump or Pence Company, any Trump or Pence Family Member, or any Trump or Pence Family Member Company, or an asset any of the foregoing own..." And by the way, to avoid any doubt. At the bottom of the ‘graph, "you agree that this shall survive the termination of this agreement pursuant to paragraph 10." Did they offer-- did you think they were offering you a real job in the campaign? Or did they want you to sign this agreement?
OMAROSA MANIGAULT NEWMAN:
They were not offering me a real job. They told me I could work from home, if I even wanted to work. They didn't really care if I showed up. In fact, there are several former employees from the White House who actually signed this agreement, who are all being paid $15,000 for their silence. The only reason “Unhinged” is –
CHUCK TODD:
You believe, you believe all these people that are on the campaign are being, that left the West Wing and the campaign are being bought off?
OMAROSA MANIGAULT NEWMAN:
Absolutely. The campaign, the RNC, and America First, which is why Sean Spicer was describing Donald Trump as a "unicorn jumping over rainbows." Because he signed this same agreement.
CHUCK TODD:
Alright, final question for you here.
OMAROSA MANIGAULT NEWMAN:
Please.
CHUCK TODD:
I know we're going to have some- before The Apprentice, you wrote that you read “The Art of the Deal”, and your plan was to mirror his behavior. Here's one of the things he wrote in that book. He said, "The final key to the way I promote is bravado. … I call it truthful hyperbole. It's an innocent form of exaggeration--and a very effective form of promotion." Anywhere in this book, when you have the Michael Cohen chewing, or Donald Trump chewing up a piece of paper. Any of this stuff that we should look at as truthful hyperbole?
OMAROSA MANIGAULT NEWMAN:
Truthful hyperbole, no. I have documentation, a whole treasure trove of documentation, for everything that you see in this book. And people should be asking what did Donald Trump and Michael Cohen discuss in that Oval Office meeting to make him so irritated to rip up the paper that was in front of him and then put it in his mouth? That's the question the American people should be asking: what went down in the Oval Office?
CHUCK TODD:
Alright, what do you want people to take away from this book?
OMAROSA MANIGAULT NEWMAN:
I need people to understand my journey. I talk about growing up in the projects, I talk about my father being murdered, I talk about my mother, my beautiful mother, who allowed me to go on and get educated and live an incredible life. This story isn't a story that you would hear if, in fact, I subdued to those threats and signed that agreement. This is a story that you have to hear because it is the embodiment of the American Dream.
CHUCK TODD:
Do you regret auditioning for The Apprentice?
OMAROSA MANIGAULT NEWMAN:
No, I don't. It changed my life. I wouldn't have gotten the chance to get to know you and many of the other people in my life. So I don’t regret that at all.
CHUCK TODD:
Omarosa Manigault Newman, it's not easy to put yourself out there, you're going to get a lot of arrows. Good luck with your book tour, thanks for coming on Meet the Press.
OMAROSA MANIGAULT NEWMAN:
Thanks for having me. Chuck.
CHUCK TODD: Live, exclusively there as well. When we come back, the panel will be here and we'll talk about everything we just heard. Stay with us.
CHUCK TODD: Welcome back, panel is here. Pat McCrory, former Republican governor of North Carolina, now a current radio talk show host on WBT in Charlotte. Former Democratic Congresswoman Donna Edwards of Maryland, NBC News White House correspondent Kristen Welker, and New York Times columnist, David Brooks. David. Where do you go from here? Donald Trump, Omarosa?
DAVID BROOKS: You know, everybody's dirty here. That's what strikes me. It's the snake pit in the White House. She said everybody was lying to each other. Everybody behaving kind of despicably, take me to your colleagues, (inaudible) people in whatever manner, Trump delegating. It's just a lowering thing to hear about the way this White House works. We've heard it over and over again. And to me, the dangerous thing, it's all intermixed with the most sensitive subject in American history, which is race. And so you combine poisoning politics with racial bigotry and racial unfairness, and it can get very ugly. If this tape exists and it comes out in October, that will put race right in the middle of the election in a very explosive way. And the one thing I take away from all this is a lot of my friends are Trump supporters and they say, "You know, I don't pay attention to all that nonsense. I like some of the policies." Well, nobody remembers where George Wallace stood on tax reform. That's what matters.
CHUCK TODD: Kristen, was that familiar? Was her descriptions of her time in the White House and what you've seen in the book, was it familiar?
KRISTEN WELKER: Well, it was. And a couple of things struck me. One, I go back to some of the early days, the tensions that exists between Omarosa and some of the top officials there who felt as though she over-promised and under delivered. She would push back on that assessment. But she said something that really struck me, which is that once she left, there's really been no one who's replaced her. I spent the weekend on the phone with a number of officials trying to say, "Well, who is now the point person for the African-American community? Who is directing this outreach?" And there is no name. They say, "Hey, wait a minute. Look at the policies, the African-American unemployment has come down. We're working on prison reform. And we're coordinating with leaders within the community on that." But again, Chuck, there's no one in the White House who's really taking the charge. And I think that's going to be increasingly a problem for them.
CHUCK TODD: Governor, you spend a lot of time on talk radio. So you hear probably from the Trump base. How are they going to react to this?
FMR. GOV. PAT MCCRORY: I don't think they're going to trust her. I don't trust her. Being a former governor and former mayor, I wouldn't trust anyone who's secretly recorded the chief of staff and other employees, which we don't know how many other employees during her tenure in the White House. It's a very unprofessional thing to do, it's extremely unethical in any work environment, from journalism, to business, to politics. And I think doing that is terrible. And I might add that I thought--
CHUCK TODD: Where do you think she learned it from though? Could it be, is she right, that you're in a cesspool, top down, and that everything goes?
FMR. GOV. PAT MCCRORY: Listen, the cesspool, you didn't hear from the chief of staff. The chief of staff handled that extremely professionally. My chief of staff when I was governor, who was African American, fired people on my behalf and they took them out of the office. You do this in all work environments. You do this in all work environments. And if you've been in the West Wing, it's a very small West Wing. There are not many rooms to go to. And the situation room is probably a good room to go to. By the way, I'd recommend the White House hire Thomas Stith, my former chief of staff. He'd be excellent in representing not just the minority community, but be an excellent communicator for the White House.
CHUCK TODD: Donna, how is the African-American community going to react to her and the questions like you hear now?
DONNA EDWARDS: Well, I think it's a mixed bag because she knew about Donald Trump from housing discrimination, to the Central Park Five, to the Mexicans as rapists, to Charlottesville, I mean, the list is-- birtherism, the list is so long. And so there's nothing that I think African Americans are going to take from that and say, "Well, you know, why is this your, you know, sort of come-to-reality moment? Many of us knew those things about Donald Trump before and we're not surprised to hear them." And we don't understand, I don't understand why she's surprised either.
CHUCK TODD: Look, we've got these protest that are coming today. We don't know if they're going to create a Charlottesville-like atmosphere. Here's how the president tweeted about it yesterday. "The riots in Charlottesville a year ago resulted in senseless death and division. We must come together as a nation. I condemn all types of racism and acts of violence. Peace to all Americans." Twitter. Is this the way to bring America together?
DAVID BROOKS: Well, he's just distancing. I mean, you can say, "This group, this group I find abhorrent," but it's always distanced. And so that's just a way of signaling to his people, "Hey, I'm still-- don't get mad at me, I'm still sort of on your side." And to me, the most disturbing thing about all this and the way this march or whatever it's going to be today is happening, the way Trump leads the country right now, we're going through a big debate, a big transition which we should have a debate about. In two years, the majority of children in America will be non-white. And 20 years after that, the majority of the country will be non-white. So that's a big transition. We can have a debate about that. I happen to think it's a very good thing. But we can't have a debate about that and what immigration is doing to the country as long as bigotry is so present.
CHUCK TODD: Can you have this debate on demographic changes without it turning racial, Governor McCrory?
FMR. GOV. PAT MCCRORY: I think some people wanted to turn it racial, the left and the right. Because the fringes benefit from those types of debate. People like seeing a car wreck. But I don't like these fringe groups. I wish the president would call out the Nazis more instead of a more general statement.
CHUCK TODD: He called out NFL players protesting, he didn't call out the white supremacists this week. Why not do--
(OVERTALK)
DONNA EDWARDS: I mean, the president has a problem with race.
FMR. GOV. PAT MCCRORY: Well, first of all, let me say this. The NFL players, there's controversy with them, and it's not just racial. Jim Brown disagrees. Jim Brown, one of the greatest not only football players but civil rights activists who made courageous stance as a famous athlete and actor at the time, he even disagrees with that process. So we've got to be careful talking about policy versus race and where is that gray area between the two.
DONNA EDWARDS: I think that--
CHUCK TODD: Sorry, Donna. I have (UNINTEL PHRASE).
DONNA EDWARDS: Well, no. I mean, I think that, you know, for many of us, it's really difficult actually to separate policy from race because our lives every day about the intersection of policy and race. And the fact is that the president of the United States today could say, "No, I don't think it's acceptable for white supremacists and white nationalists to be outside of the White House." And he hasn't done that. And to me, those non-words speak more clearly than anything else.
KRISTEN WELKER: Well, to your point, not only is he not doing that, he's tweeting about the NFL players. And a lot of people are wondering where's the forum at the White House to discuss this issue? He had one on guns, another critical issue that we're dealing with as a country. Why not invite these various groups to the White House and have a discussion about it? Instead, he's taking to Twitter and only spinning things up more.
CHUCK TODD: All right. We're going to take a break here. It would be cathartic if you just let people maybe even yell at them a little bit at the White House on this for a little while. All right, when we come back, the man who hopes to heal the growing rift in the Republican party, perhaps by running for president. Ohio Governor John Kasich is next.
CHUCK TODD:Welcome back. With the midterm elections fewer than 90 days from now, the Republican Party appears to be facing a moment of crisis. Right now, President Trump is immensely popular with most Republicans. But there is a significant group that is disenchanted, turned off by the president's rhetoric and his position on issues like healthcare and immigration. Those Republicans live in the suburbs of major cities, like the ones who voted in Tuesday's special election outside of Columbus, Ohio. They sound a lot like the kind of voters former congressman and current Ohio governor and past and possible future presidential candidate John Kasich have called his voters. Well, I spoke to Kasich yesterday, and I began by asking him if the apparent narrow victory by the Republican candidate in that special election constituted a good or a bad night for the G.O.P.
GOVERNOR JOHN KASICH:
Well, it wasn't a good night because this is a district that you should be winning by, you know, overwhelming numbers. Like, you know, the last guy won by 17 points. Something like this. And so, what you had is, I think, a message from the voters to the Republicans that you've got to stop the chaos and you've got to get more in tune.
And stop alienating people and try to figure out how do families do better. I mean, you can't be talking about, you know, being in a fight here where maybe people could lose their health care if they have a preexisting condition, or this business of separating children from their mothers and fathers at the border, or these tariffs that are just beginning to frighten a number of people in business.
These kinds of messages, plus the overall chaos here, the chaos overseas. Chuck, people just want the government to do its job, to improve the situation for them, not to be on the front page and creating a chaotic environment all the time. They don't want that.
CHUCK TODD:
I want to get your reaction to something that Mark Leibovich has written in this morning's New York Times Magazine. It's a profile interview of Paul Ryan. But this is what he writes, governor: "Are Republican leaders so unwilling to condemn Trump because their voters support him so vigorously, or do these voters support Trump so vigorously because so few Republican leaders (LAUGH) have dared to condemn his actions?" Chicken, meet egg.
Look, this was about Paul. Speaker Ryan has been asked to speak out. You know, he's walked a quieter line than you have, for instance. Do you think that's the issue? That basically, not enough people are making a case, essentially, against the president inside the Republican tent?
GOVERNOR JOHN KASICH:
You know, I don't think it's so much making a case against the president. It's making a case for what you believe in. The Republican party has never been for protectionism. The Republican party doesn't support a notion that, that families shouldn't be held together. The Republican party never supported the notion that we should ring up debt and put our kids in so much… so much in debt by doing things that are not responsible. The Republican party has never believed that we should walk away from our allies who have helped us keep the peace since World War II. These positions are, they don't even resemble the Republican party.
CHUCK TODD:
Right. But right now, only President Trump is making that case. There are not many people making the other case here in Washington.
GOVERNOR JOHN KASICH:
The other thing that I don't like, the reason why I did not go to our convention and support Donald Trump as president, is I'm not for a divider. And I'm not for people who say the reason you don't have something is because somebody else took your stuff. That's called victimization.
I don't believe in that.
CHUCK TODD: some people hear you say that, and they think, John Kasich wants to run for president. The question is, does he want to do it as a Republican and fight inside the party and remake it, or does he want to do it as an independent and see if he can essentially put together the coalition you just described.
GOVERNOR JOHN KASICH:
Well, Chuck, I'm a Republican. And the fact is that the Republican candidate for Congress here really called and pleaded with me to do more to help him. No, I think that when they look at the formula for success, look, you not only have success electorally, but when you're helping people to rise, you feel good about yourself. I mean, I--
CHUCK TODD:
You're punting my 2020 question a little bit, though--
GOVERNOR JOHN KASICH:
Well, Chuck, I don't know what I'm doing. You know that. (LAUGH) What I’m doing now… look, I'm staying alive. I'm speaking out. But every time I say anything or observe something, people want to say, oh, well, that's because he's running for president. I really don't know what I'm going to do. Maybe I will. Maybe I won't. I don't know. But here's what I do know. My job as a human being, ultimately, is to serve the Lord. And if I'm helping people to realize their God-given purpose and destiny, then I'm striking tin, and that's good.
CHUCK TODD:
Well, I want to put up something that Henry Olsen in the National Review wrote this week about your 20-- he calls it John Kasich's 2020 dream.
GOVERNOR JOHN KASICH:
Oh.
CHUCK TODD: "He's too Republican for disaffected Democrats and too experienced for voters who want radical change." Then he goes on to note you lost two bids for office. And he thinks the third one wouldn't end differently. But I'm curious about that first one. Are you too Republican for those center- centrist Democrats? And are you too experienced for the times?
GOVERNOR JOHN KASICH:
I don't know, Chuck, what the mood is. What I know is what's true today is not true a couple hours from now, that what's on your show now is going to probably be old news in, like, two hours.
CHUCK TODD: Thanks a lot--
GOVERNOR JOHN KASICH: So you can't predict. You cannot predict where this country's going, where the mood is going, because everyone in the country knows that it's chaotic. They know there's something wrong with our compass and they really want it fixed. So I don't really worry too much about any of this. I'm going to do my job and that's all I can do.
CHUCK TODD: I want to get your reaction very quickly. There's been some discomfort from some corners about some commentaries that have taken place on Fox News in prime time. Give you're a former Fox News host, I want to get you to respond, react, to what Laura Ingraham said this week. Take a listen to it, sir.
(BEGIN TAPE)
LAURA INGRAHAM: In some parts of the country, it does seem like the America that we know and love doesn't exist anymore. Massive demographic changes have been foisted upon the American people. And they're changes that none of us ever voted for, and most of us don't like.
(END TAPE)
CHUCK TODD: Reaction?
GOVERNOR JOHN KASICH: You know, she said that this didn't have anything to do about race, but you know- and, and I’m not going to- I’m not- I know her a little bit. I'm not going to say that she was saying this because of race. But what I am saying is this kind of language of division is not, is not helpful to us, Chuck. And so, look, at the end--
CHUCK TODD: Do you worry though that- I mean, if you think about it, this issue with the Republican base, they talk to it. They talk to the Republican base directly. Has that made your job harder inside the Republican party?
GOVERNOR JOHN KASICH: You know, Chuck, I think one of the things that's happening is that people have been increasing-- not everybody, but many have been increasingly unwilling to put themselves in the shoes of somebody else. Even when you think about family separation at the border, some people say, well, you know, they had a choice. They didn't need to go there. Well, many of them had to go there to save their kids' lives, literally, okay. So look, Chuck, I don't want to just be doing this, you know; some sort of religious hour here.
CHUCK TODD:I understand.
GOVERNOR JOHN KASICH: But I think what's fundamentally changed our country is that many people have not come to understand what faith is, which is loving your neighbor, elevating others, sometimes in front of yourself, putting yourself in other people's shoes. And when we don't do that, we lose the essence of our country. When my father and my uncle talked about the Great Depression, everybody pulled together. And what we're seeing now is people pulling apart rather than coming together. And I think that's an element of religiosity. If you're a humanist, I love you anyway because, you know, you believe in making a better tomorrow. But we need the compass back. And I, frankly, believe it comes from on high. Faith, togetherness, we can do it.
CHUCK TODD:In fact, that special election last Tuesday, why what happened in Ohio may not stay in central Ohio.CHUCK TODD:Welcome back, data download time. If November is truly going to be a wave for Democrats taking back the House, they're not just going to win the so-called toss-up races. They've got to win the next rung out, places like Ohio's 12th Congressional District, where places like Democrats turned a district the Republican incumbent won by 37 points and Donald Trump won by 11 points in 2016 into quite the nail-biter last Tuesday night.So what is it about Ohio 12? Well, it's literally that next rung out when you think about it via cities. It includes some of the outer suburbs of Columbus, a rapidly-growing city, as well as large, rural areas. And there are places like Ohio 12 across the countries.These districts you could argue were the G.O.P.'s original majority makers this decade. Many G.O.P. legislators drew these districts specifically after the last census in order to guarantee a Republican majority. There are places like Missouri 2nd, the suburbs of Saint Louis. The Cook Political Report rates this district "likely Republican." But with more Democrats and Republicans showing up to vote in last week's primary, things may get more uncomfortable there for the G.O.P.There's Washington's 5th District, this is a district home to Spokane, Washington. Eastern Washington, not Seattle, on the Western side. It's a mix of urban and rural areas, just like Ohio 12. If Democrats win here, they'd defeat Cathy McMorris Rodgers, a top-ranking woman in Republican leadership. She won her last election by nearly 20 points. Cook rates this district as now "lean Republican."Let's take you to Kansas's 2nd District, it includes some suburbs of Kansas City plus a large rural swath of the state as well. 2016 it went Republican by 28 points. Just this week, Cook moved it over to their toss-up column.
Finally, we'll leave you with Wisconsin's 1st Congressional District, covering the outer suburbs of Milwaukee and Racine, Wisconsin. The seat went Republican by a whopping 35 points in the last election. Cook only rates it though "lean Republican" in part because it's an open seat this time around vacated by the Speaker of the House Paul Ryan. That's right. There is a good chance Paul Ryan's congressional seat goes to a Democrat in November. Look, we've talked a lot about Democrats taking over the suburbs.But that next rung out are where the suburbs start bleeding into the exurbs which bleed into rural areas. These are the battleground districts in a wave year. They're the difference between a wave and a non-wave. When we come back, end game, growing number of Democrats say it's time for Nancy Pelosi to step aside as their House leader. She says they'll do better with her. Who's right?
CHUCK TODD:Back now with end game. David Wasserman, who covers the House for our friends over at the Cook Political Report put out a tweet on Thursday after that disappointing performance for the G.O.P. and Troy Balderson in that red Ohio district. And his tweet says this, "Republicans, watch out." And he tweeted, "Signs you're in danger of a wave. Number one, your voters aren't turning out. Check. Number two, your incumbents are getting out-raised. That's happening, check. Number three, the other party has candidates in virtually all 435 districts. Check. And you keep waiting for things to get better, and they don't. Check."And guess what, things only got worse this week when Congressman Chris Collins of New York was indicted on charges related to securities fraud. Collins, after saying he was going to fight on, suddenly decided yesterday to suspend his campaign even though it may be impossible for Republicans to physically replace his name on the ballot at this late stage. They're trying to figure that out. Governor McCrory, do you see a wave coming against your side?
FMR. GOV. PAT MCCRORY:I'm very concerned. In North Carolina, we have two competitive congressional races, all the rest are gerrymandered where there are no competitive races after the primary. But in the two competitive races, the Democrats that are running have no track record whatsoever. They do not talk about any Democratic policies, they take no stands on anything. And they're raising a ton of money.
CHUCK TODD:So what David Wasserman said there, you were like, "Yup, I know those, 'cause it's check, check, check, check."
FMR. GOV. PAT MCCRORY:And by the way, they don't know how to spell Pelosi, and yet they're collecting her money that she's raising national-wide. And so she's using her fundraising skills to candidates in North Carolina, and then they disown her. So they're having the best of both worlds. There's a little hypocrisy.
CHUCK TODD:Donna, do you see a wave?
DONNA EDWARDS:Well, you know, a few months ago, I said I thought there were going to be 35 to 40 seats, and people laughed at me. I think it's going to be way more than that. And, I mean, I remember when in 2010, we lost seats as Democrats that we didn't expect to lose that got swept up. And I really feel like this is coming here. And you can see it in some of these primary results in Washington State with Cathy McMorris Rodgers, Jaime Herrera Beutler, all across the country. And so yeah, I see the wave coming.
CHUCK TODD:I mean, David, we're talking about the number of foreign leadership and actually the seat that belongs to the number one guy in leadership both suddenly are on the battlegrounds.DAVID BROOKS:And to me, what's interesting, it's not a Trump thing. If it was just Trump tweets, people getting upset, we'd see leakage across the Republican base. We don't see that. We see it as you mention, as a specific demographic, suburban office parks.
CHUCK TODD:The same people. Yeah.
DAVID BROOKS:So these are guys, men and women who work in I.T., supply chain, you go to those office parks, what do you notice? One, they're diverse. Two, they benefit from the global economy. They like free trade, they like immigration. And so this is the entire Republican party leaving behind a major part of their base.
CHUCK TODD:Does the White House know this? The White House political staff knows this. Does the president?
KRISTEN WELKER:The president doesn't know it, Chuck, because he's prepared to go out on the campaign trail. And based on my conversations, he's going to be out at least 40 days after election day. But here's the reality, Chuck. When you talk to his political team, they say, "Look, we're going to be smart about this."Not every event is going to be a rally. There may be some roundtables. Ivanka Trump is going to be out as well. They realize that he's not going to play well in every district. But the wildcard is, is he going to actually drive some Republicans away? And is he going to energize Democrats?
CHUCK TODD::Kasich's thought, governor, that he might have simultaneously drove up the base in that district when he did that rally. But may have turned out even more suburban voters.
FMR. GOV. PAT MCCRORY:Actually, President Obama and President Trump are very similar in one way. They both have a core of 30% to 35% people who no matter what they did, they wouldn't leave him. It's the additional percentage on what are they going to do. And President Obama lost the midterms because they didn't come out to vote. That's the danger of President Trump. Very similar dynamics.
CHUCK TODD:Donna, if there is an undertow, that undertow might be called Pelosi. And I'm curious of your thoughts here. You had Rashida Tlaib who was the person who was going to replace John Conyers in Metro Detroit. And she said, you know what, she thinks she would probably not vote for her. And that was interesting when I heard the word "probably." But there is a growing number of lawmakers who say that is she going to be speaker if Democrats take control? You've been there. You know her. You know how this works on the inside. How strong is her hold on this caucus?
DONNA EDWARDS:Well, first of all, Nancy Pelosi is the best vote counter ever. And she's not going to run for speaker unless she believes that she can get the votes to do it. I just don't see where the transition plan will be. I mean, you look at the various factions of the party and I can see in the vote that's a majority winner takes all, then she comes out ahead in that.
But you know what, I think she may deserve it. I mean, she's already raised almost $90 million for Democrats across the country. She knows that, you know, she can be a lightning rod. And you know what she says? She says, "Just win, baby." Because she knows that when they come in, they're going to have to make the decision, she's the one who brought them there.
CHUCK TODD:But could she be the difference between a majority and a governing majority? David, I mean, look, they used Pelosi at the end. Was that worth 1,500 votes? May not have been worth 15,000, but was it worth 1,500 in Ohio?
DAVID BROOKS:Right. Yeah, and you know, I followed the history of the Democratic party, so I'm asking, how are they going to find to screw it up this time? And we know that they will find a way.
FMR. GOV. PAT MCCRORY:We're hoping--
DAVID BROOKS:But they're not doing the obvious things. You know, the obvious things would be to swing super far left. They're not really doing that. Not with the candidates. And with Pelosi, it's become the symbol of change. But she's a great speaker. And they-- it would be a big--
KRISTEN WELKER:She delivers.
CHUCK TODD:All right. I'm going to leave it there. Thank you all. Wonderful panel. Thanks for watching, everybody. We're going to be back next week. Because if it's Sunday, it's Meet the Press.