CHUCK TODD:
This Sunday, the fight against Covid.
STEPHEN HOGE:
Take what you can get when you get it.
CHUCK TODD:
Johnson and Johnson's vaccine coming online --
DR. ANTHONY FAUCI:
To have them come in and be in the mix with the other two is, is nothing but good news.
DR. RICHARD NETTLES:
We are on track to deliver the 100 million doses by the end of June.
JOHN YOUNG:
We will be on track to deliver those 300 million doses before the end of July.
RUDD DOBBER:
We will deliver the 300 million soon after.
CHUCK TODD:
Cases and death rates down sharply from January, but warning signs remain.
DR. ROCHELLE WALENSKY:
Things are tenuous. Now is not the time to relax restrictions.
CHUCK TODD:
My guest this morning: Dr. Anthony Fauci. Plus, House Democrats pass President Biden's $1.9 trillion Covid relief bill.
PRES. JOE BIDEN:
We're one step closer to vaccinating the nation. We are one step closer to putting $1,400 in the pockets of Americans.
CHUCK TODD:
But Senate Democrats are being blocked from including a minimum wage increase in the bill. I'll talk to Democratic Senator Sherrod Brown, who says it's time for Democrats to stop waiting for Republican support. Also, the view from Canada.
PRIME MINISTER JUSTIN TRUDEAU:
It's great to see America reengage. I think certainly there were things that were more challenging under the previous administration.
CHUCK TODD:
My interview with Canada's prime minister, Justin Trudeau. And the Trump wing of the GOP gathers in Florida --
SEN. RICK SCOTT:
We will not win the future by trying to go back to where the Republican Party used to be.
CHUCK TODD:
With the movement pledging its loyalty to the former president, who speaks today. Joining me for insight and analysis are Washington Post columnist Eugene Robinson, NBC News White House correspondent Carol Lee, New York Times columnist Brett Stephens and O. Kay Henderson, news director of the Radio Iowa Network. Welcome to Sunday. It's Meet the Press.
ANNOUNCER:
From NBC News in Washington, the longest-running show in television history. This is Meet the Press with Chuck Todd.
CHUCK TODD:
And a good Sunday morning. It was almost a year ago that the country began shutting down from Covid, and for the first time there seems to be a real reason to have cautious optimism. The seven-day case rate has fallen from a high of 250,000 in early January to 70,000 now, though it has ticked up in the past week. The death rate, though still exacting a terrible daily toll, also slowed, especially among the most vulnerable: elderly in nursing homes. New vaccines like Johnson & Johnson, a one shot vaccine for now, are coming online, and they are proving to be effective at preventing vaccinated people from spreading this disease to others. So a combination of mask wearing, social distancing and tens of millions being vaccinated seems to have put us on the right path, at least for now. At the same time, House Democrats on Friday passed President Biden's $1.9 trillion Covid relief bill. It’s an effort to spur vaccine production and jump start this economy. There's no doubt it is far too early to declare victory over the virus just yet. Loosened restrictions, failing to wear masks, new variants, spring break all threaten to produce a resurgence. And that leveling off of cases dropping is concerning. But for now, at least, there's reason to believe that the worst may finally be behind us.
PRES. JOE BIDEN:
We're one step closer to vaccinating the nation.
CHUCK TODD:
Cautious new optimism as the third vaccine from Johnson & Johnson, is cleared for emergency use.
DR. RICHARD NETTLES:
We are on track to deliver the 100 million doses by the end of June.
DR. ANTHONY FAUCI:
To have two is fine, to have three is absolutely better.
GOV. BRIAN KEMP:
It gives us just a whole 'nother weapon in this fight.
CHUCK TODD:
Overall, new cases are down substantially over the last six weeks, but the CDC is warning against relaxing pandemic restrictions, saying that the drop in cases may be leveling off.
DR. ROCHELLE WALENSKY:
The latest data suggests that these declines may be stalling, potentially leveling off at still a very high number.
CHUCK TODD:
More than 2,000 Americans continue to die every day.
PRES. JOE BIDEN:
Covid-19 has now taken over 500,000 of our fellow Americans. That's more than died in World War I, World War II and the Vietnam War combined.
CHUCK TODD:Also a concern: new variants, like one that is spreading rapidly in New York. And though more than 70 million vaccine doses have been administered across the county, in places, the vaccine rollout continues to have access and equity issues.
DAVID FISHOF:
I think it's crazy that, that they don't have, you know, more, more vaccine.
FLORIDA RESIDENT:
Something is wrong with this whole system.
CHUCK TODD:
As the public education effort ramps up --
VOICEOVER:
The vaccines are safe and effective. They're going to save lives.
CHUCK TODD:
-- President Biden is pushing his $1.9 trillion dollar Covid relief bill --
PRES. JOE BIDEN:
It relieves the suffering. And it's time to act.
CHUCK TODD:
-- passed by the House early Saturday morning, largely on party lines.
REP. NANCY PELOSI:
The yays are 219, the nays are 212.
CHUCK TODD:
The stimulus package includes new money for testing, contact tracing and schools, for state and local governments, an expansion of unemployment benefits and the child tax credit and $1,400 dollar direct payments to many Americans. It also would raise the federal minimum wage to $15 dollars an hour - a measure polls show is popular with Americans.
REP. NANCY PELOSI:
As we advance this legislation, we will continue to fight for 15.
CHUCK TODD:
Now, after the Senate parliamentarian ruled the minimum wage increase was not allowed in the bill under rules allowing Democrats to pass it with a simple majority, Senate Democrats are exploring adding tax penalties for big corporations that pay less than $15 an hour. But even as progressives say that does not go far enough --
REP. PRAMILA JAYAPAL:
There is precedent in our history to overrule that ruling or to not listen to it.
CHUCK TODD:
-- it's not clear centrist Democrats will support it.
SEN. JOE MANCHIN:
Don't you think it's reasonable for it to have a flat rate of $11 and then index it from there?
CHUCK TODD:
As Republicans overwhelmingly oppose it.
SEN. RICK SCOTT:
I'm not going to do anything that's going to kill somebody's job, alright? When you don't have a job, you could get paid zero. There's no minimum wage. The minimum wage is zero.
CHUCK TODD:
Joining me now is Dr. Anthony Fauci who is, of course, the director of the National Institute for Allergy and Infectious Diseases. Dr. Fauci, welcome back to Meet the Press. I want to start with --
DR. ANTHONY FAUCI:
Thank you.
CHUCK TODD:
-- the message that you and Dr. Walensky were sending on Friday because I want to put up -- we had quite a few states started lifting some restrictions just in the last week. We have a graphic showing about a dozen states. Some, like North Carolina, allowed more fans in the stands. We had more indoor bars being opened and things like this. And you and Dr. Walensky were, like, "Not yet." Why not yet? Why is this week not the week yet to ease restrictions?
DR. ANTHONY FAUCI:
Oh, Chuck, because we've been in this situation before. When you start to see a decline in number of cases, if you prematurely lift the restrictions, we have a few examples of the rebound back. Our baseline of daily infections now, even though it's way down from where it was 300,000+ per day, is down to around 70,000. That baseline's too high, Chuck. Once you start pulling back, the thing you don't want is to have a plateauing at a level that's so high that, inevitably, things are going to go back up. And that's the reason why. We understand the need and the desire, understandably, to want to just pull back because things are going in the right direction. But you've got to get that baseline down lower than it is now, particularly in light of the fact that we have some worrisome variants that are in places like California and New York and others that we're keeping our eye on. So it's really too premature right now to be pulling back too much.
CHUCK TODD:
Let's talk about the big news overnight, the approval of the Johnson & Johnson vaccine. The good news: it's a single shot. But here's where I think some people will have questions. The efficacy rate, and this is where you're going to have to help explain, explain why people should feel just as comfortable with the Johnson & Johnson vaccine as they do a Moderna or Pfizer vaccine, whose efficacy rates on the virus are higher than the Johnson & Johnson. What say you, Dr. Fauci?
DR. ANTHONY FAUCI:
Well, Chuck, first of all, you now have three highly efficacious vaccines for sure. There's no doubt about that. And particularly the recent results from J&J, if you look at the efficacy against severe disease, greater than 85 percent. And there have been no hospitalizations or deaths in multiple countries, even in countries that have the variants. So be careful when you try to parse these “this percent versus that.” The only way you know one versus the other is if you compare them head to head. And they were not compared head to head. They were compared under different circumstances. All three of them are really quite good. And people should take the one that's most available to them. If you go to a place and you have J&J and that's the one that's available now, I would take it. I personally would do the same thing. I think people need to get vaccinated as quickly and as expeditiously as possible. And if I would go to a place where they had J&J, I would have no hesitancy whatsoever to take it.
CHUCK TODD:
How do you plan to distribute these vaccines? Is there -- are you going to take advantage of the refrigeration aspect of the J&J vaccine? But let me ask this, are you concerned that if you take advantage of that, that some may say, "Oh, we're getting the, quote, 'weaker vaccine'?"
DR. ANTHONY FAUCI:
Well, that's the first thing you've got to dispel, Chuck, apropos of the first question you asked me. It's not the weaker vaccine. They're all three really good vaccines. And the distribution are going to be equitably the same way as we distributed the mRNA vaccines from Pfizer and from Moderna. They will be distributed in an equal way to the same way we did it originally with the first two. We've got to get away from that concept that one's the weaker and one's not. It's understandably when people look at the numbers. But that's really not the case. We have a vaccine that works. We should be really very glad that we do. We're quite fortunate to have three really good vaccines.
CHUCK TODD:
In fact, let me ask the question in reverse. Is it possible that Moderna and Pfizer efficacy rate, because of the variants now, would actually be slightly lower if they were -- if they were being under, under the approval process right now?
DR. ANTHONY FAUCI:
It's conceivable. I mean, you don't know, Chuck, I mean, because you have to do the study to get the really firm data. But that certainly is conceivable. And that's the reason why you've got to be careful when you make comparisons, you've got to do them head to head. And again, putting that aside, looking at -- I mean, if you had done this and just said months ago, "What would really make you very excited, Dr. Fauci?" I'd say, "Boy, just give me a 70+ percent effective vaccine. I'd really be thrilled." In fact, I think I may have said that on this show to you.
CHUCK TODD:
I think -- no, I think you did. Let me get to vaccinating children because I had this question today. There's down to 16, there's down to 12, and I guess the question is below 12. And I think -- on here before, you'd seem to think that, with older kids, probably before the school year we would have some clarity on which vaccines are safe. What about for kids under 12?
DR. ANTHONY FAUCI:
Correct. Well, when you go to under 12, you've got to do something that's called age de-escalation, Chuck, which means you don't want to jump down from 12 down to six months. You go 12 to nine, nine to six, two years to six, and then six months to two years. But you've got to do it in a progressive way. There are a couple of companies that are doing that. Some of those studies have actually already started. If you project realistically when we'll get enough data to be able to say that elementary school children will be able to be vaccinated, I would think that would be, at the earliest, the end of the year. And very likely, the first quarter of 2022. But for the high school kids, it looks like sometime this fall. I'm not sure it's exactly -- be on the first day the school opens, but pretty close to that.
CHUCK TODD:
We are at one -- literally about to have the one year mark of when, for a lot of Americans, it was Tom Hanks and the NBA, that night, right? And we're about to hit that point. We're also going to have spring break. We've got these new variants. What is concerning you? Is it -- is it this whole sort of stew that could just percolate right back up on us?
DR. ANTHONY FAUCI:
Of course, that's a concern to me, Chuck. And I say that all the time. You don't want to be someone that always keeps the reins on not getting people back to normal. But you can get back to normal more quickly if you keep getting that baseline low. And I'm concerned that we're still at that level of 70,000. And when people start then pulling back on mitigation methods and mitigation activities, you have the risk, and it is a real risk, of seeing it go back up. And it's not something I'm imagining. Go back and take a look at the surges that we've had over the past year. It was always at a time where you wanted to pull back. Remember during the time we were going to open up the country and open up the economy, there were some states and some regions and some cities that did not actually abide by the recommendations. They pulled back too prematurely, and we had the big surges that came. We just don't need that right now. We want to get it way down before we do that. We have an advantage too, Chuck, because in addition to seeing the curve going down, every day, every week that goes by, more and more people get vaccinated. That's in our favor to keep these things down.
CHUCK TODD:
Herd immunity? When do you think we can say we would get there?
DR. ANTHONY FAUCI:
Well, again, herd immunity is a situation that you are going to anticipate as an approximation. We don't know we are in herd immunity until you get to a point where, essentially, the entire community has this umbrella of protection. And when you get below it, then you start seeing cases. I would imagine -- and I make a projection, I think it's reasonable, but I'm not 100 percent certain -- that it's somewhere between 70 and 85 percent of the population. But before you get to true herd immunity, you could still get a terrific example of getting less and less cases as more and more people get vaccinated. So you don't have to have absolute herd immunity to get those cases way down as you get more and more people vaccinated.
CHUCK TODD:
Bottom line, we have three vaccines and it is not yet March 1st. Dr. Fauci, I assume on that score, you feel like in that sense we are winning?
DR. ANTHONY FAUCI:
Well, we certainly have accomplished an awful lot. The one thing, again, that I don't want to seem like I'm always looking at the downside of things, but let's keep our feet on that accelerator right now because we're going in the right direction. And the right direction is to continue to go down to a very low baseline level. And we're just not there yet, Chuck. We're not.
CHUCK TODD:
Dr. Fauci, as always, sir, thank you. Really appreciate it.
DR. ANTHONY FAUCI:
Thank you for having me Chuck.
CHUCK TODD:
And make sure to check out our interactive state by state guide to figure out when and where to receive your Covid vaccine. Visit PlanYourVaccine.com to learn more. And joining me now is Democratic Senator Sherrod Brown of Ohio who chairs the Senate Banking Committee. Senator Brown, welcome back to Meet the Press.
SEN. SHERROD BROWN:
Thanks, Chuck. It's particularly an honor to be on after Dr. Fauci, so thank you.
CHUCK TODD:
Well, you've got it. Let me start with something you wrote on Thursday and get you to explain it a bit further. You wrote this: "The best chance for our democracy lies not with the vain hope that Republican leaders will grow spines, but with Democrats' ability to show Americans that they do not have to settle for a government that's set up to fail." On one hand, that message sounds defiant, but I'll be honest with you, Senator, it sounds a bit vague. What are you calling for here, in that declaration?
SEN. SHERROD BROWN:
Well, it's not defiant, certainly, and it's prescriptive. If we -- to build democracy, to save democracy, government, we need to make government work. That's why President Biden's Relief Act is -- Repair Act is all about going big. We go big on unemployment benefits, on opening schools, and putting shots in people's arms, and money in people's pockets and workers in jobs. That's what this proposal does. That's why the House passed it. It's what voters voted for in November. It's what the Senate will do.
CHUCK TODD:
There's another way to read your statement. It sounds like you're saying, “Eh, forget bipartisanship. It's not worth it.”
SEN. SHERROD BROWN
No, I always try to be bipartisan. That's how I won -- I get elected in a state like Ohio, which people say is trending more conservative Republican. It’s how we get things done. But this is a bipartisan plan that President Biden has put out there and the House has passed. Overwhelming support among the public, overwhelming support among Republicans on, on making sure on -- on eliminating, cutting the rate of poverty through an earned income tax credit and child tax credit in half. In opening our schools and in providing -- putting money in people's pockets, with unemployment, with $1,400 dollars. All those things are very bipartisan. Just because Senate Republicans don't support it doesn't make it partisan. What's, what's bipartisan is the public support for it to go big. And one other point. Janet Yellen, secretary of the Treasury, said if we don't go big there will be a long term, I believe she said “generational scarring” of our economy. So we need -- we can't fall short here. We need to go big with wages, with help for people, with money in people's pockets and jobs -- people, workers in these jobs.
CHUCK TODD:
It’s an uncomfortable stat, though. There is bipartis -- there was a bipartisan vote against, technically, this relief bill. Not a single House Republican joined the Democrats, but two Democrats joined Republicans in opposing. And I know there's Washington and there's what we've seen in this polling that you're citing. I've seen those same numbers, too. What's your explanation of why Washington Republicans can't get on board?
SEN. SHERROD BROWN:
Well, the, the Washington elite are doing the -- it's become a Trump party. It's not a party of reason. It's a party that has turned its back. Mitch McConnell, all summer in June and July and August and September and October, as thousands of people were starting to fall into poverty, after we did it right back in March, Mitch McConnell continued to say he sees no sense of urgency. So, the Republicans failed. They failed for 10 years. They failed to raise the minimum wage. They failed to provide the kind of help we need. We know what works. We know going big, making government work is the best way to strengthen our democracy. Because, I mean the, the -- we know that, that anti-democratic, small-d, feelings are built on, on income inequality. And if the, if the gap gets wider and wider in income, wealth and income inequality and structural racism in this country -- we know that we have social problems. We have things like what happened on January 6, and we've got to make sure that we build democracy by closing income inequality and wealth inequality. And the Biden package goes big and does that.
CHUCK TODD:
The Senate parliamentarian ruled against including the minimum wage in this Covid relief bill. Obviously, a lot of your fellow progressives are not happy about this. Many of your fellow Democrats aren't, but you don't have the 50 votes to get rid of the filibuster or to overrule the parliamentarian. So, what do you tell progressives about how much patience they should have?
SEN. SHERROD BROWN:
Oh, I don't think we have patience. Democrats are united in giving a raise. The last time the Senate voted for a higher minimum wage, it was my first month in office. It was the first speech I gave on the Senate floor. It was so long ago that the presiding officer was a first-term Illinois senator by the name of Barack Obama. He was presiding over the Senate. That's how long ago this was since we've raised the minimum wage. The Republicans have failed to do it. We're going to raise wages. We're going to find a way to. I'm not going to negotiate on Meet the Press --
CHUCK TODD:
Right.
SEN. SHERROD BROWN:
-- as prestigious as this longest-serving show, whatever it is.
CHUCK TODD:
I appreciate it, but we’ll host it.
SEN. SHERROD BROWN:
We're going to make this happen. We're going to find a way to. It's just too important not to.
CHUCK TODD:
So, you think this is something that can be negotiated across the aisle, as well? That, you know, you, you -- that this isn't about starting to campaign to Joe Manchin to say nuke the filibuster?
SEN. SHERROD BROWN:
No, I, we’ll find a way. I mean, I -- Senator Wyden, the leader of the Finance Committee, I'm on that committee with Senator Whitehouse and Senator Bennet and others, who have fought for the child tax credit, earned income tax credit, all of these issues. We will figure out a way to do this because again Democrats are united in raising wages. The corporate elite, the far-right elite in Washington have blocked it year after year after year after year, and we're going to make it happen.
CHUCK TODD:
On the decision by President Biden to release the intelligence report on Jamal Khashoggi and what happened there, that fingers the crown prince in Saudi Arabia as making this -- basically facilitating and ordering this hit on this journalist. Do you think President Biden is not punishing Saudi Arabia enough over this, and M.B.S in particular?
SEN. SHERROD BROWN:
No way should we ever tolerate assassination or any kind of violence aimed at an American journalist. We will -- President Biden has called it out. We need to make sure we make the Saudis, and particularly the Saudi member of the royal family or members of the royal family, we need to make them accountable. We'll see what President Biden does on this --
CHUCK TODD:
Doesn't sound like we're going to though. It doesn't sound like we are going to do that?
SEN. SHERROD BROWN:
I don't think that's a definitive, end of story decision. We're talking to the White House. So are others. We need to hold any foreign authoritarian, like the royal family, some of the members of the royal family, we need hold them accountable. We need to figure out how to do it and move quickly.
CHUCK TODD:
Senator Sherrod Brown, Democrat from Ohio, the chairman of the Senate Banking Committee. Thank you for coming on here and sharing your perspective with us, sir. Appreciate it.
SEN. SHERROD BROWN:
Yeah. Chuck, one real quick thing. We call it now the Senate Banking and Housing Committee because this committee it's been all about banking and it's going to be more and more about housing in the years ahead. So, I'm not correcting you, let me explain, but they --
CHUCK TODD:
You got it. No, no, no, no. Good to know. The next time we have you on, I look forward to talking some housing with you as well, sir. So, thank you for doing that.
SEN. SHERROD BROWN:
We're on, for sure.
CHUCK TODD:
You got it. When we come back, as Democrats debate going it alone without Republican votes, many are saying, "What would Mitch do," as in Mitch McConnell. The panel is next.
CHUCK TODD:
Welcome back. The panel is with us. Washington Post columnist Eugene Robinson, NBC News White House correspondent Carol Lee, New York Times columnist Bret Stephens, and O. Kay Henderson, the news director of Radio -- the Radio Iowa Network. Kay, I'm going to let you go first here. Senator Sherrod Brown said there is plenty of bipartisan support for this Covid relief bill essentially out in America, just not in Washington. What say you out of Iowa?
O. KAY HENDERSON:
Well, as many of your viewers know, Iowa Republicans cleaned up on Election Day back in 2020, and the Iowa Republicans here are already messaging about how they plan to frame this. Iowa Governor Kim Reynolds joined with 22 other governors in complaining about the package, in that the aid for state governments is tied to the percentage of unemployed in each state, rather than the general population of each state, number one. Number two, the, the $15 minimum wage issue is really interesting, because Democrats here are trying to rebrand themselves as the party of working Americans. And that really plays into what Democrats are trying to talk about at the state level.
CHUCK TODD:
You know, Carol Lee, it has been interesting to watch here in Washington. I mean, look, it's an uncomfortable fact, you know. The opposition got two Democrats to this bill in the House and not a single Republican. I thought we might have one or two. I still think there could be one or two in the Senate, but this has to be disappointing to the White House.
CAROL LEE:
It is, Chuck. And look, they worked very hard to try to get some Republican support for this bill, the president in particular, even though those around the president thought that this was going to be a fool's errand, and in the end, they wouldn't get Republican support. I've spoken to White House officials over the weekend who've said, "Look, we're not expecting it at this point." They're a little more clear-eyed about this, and even the president is as well. I think that their focus now is on just getting this done. And so what you see is the president not leaning in on this minimum wage alternative proposal, not saying where he stands on that, hoping that, as the Parliamentarian did, that maybe another senator or Democrat would save him from having to wade into that fight and navigate that, because that's not something that he wants to do. They, they really don't want to insert themselves into these fights, in part because this is just the beginning. The coronavirus relief package is the easy part. The other things on his agenda -- the fights only get bigger and tougher.
CHUCK TODD:
You know, Bret Stephens, I'm curious. You know, look, you look at Republican leadership and they seem to be, "All right, let's do the same thing that we did in '09. It worked then." Here's the issue though. In '09, it was clear the economy was still going south when they decided to essentially unanimously oppose Obama's relief bill. The economy’s going to -- potentially could take off like a rocket ship in the next nine months. What's this going to look like a year from now if the Democrats get to say, "Hey, we passed this. They stood on the sidelines"?
BRET STEPHENS:
Yeah. That's, that’s a possibility. The other possibility is that when you're injecting close to $2 trillion into a growing economy, you're going to see the kind of inflationary pressure that we didn't have 12 years ago, precisely for the same reason. The economy was going south. I think the Republicans are actually, from their point of view, playing this pretty smartly. The minimum wage provisions hurt small businesses. And people forget that just, what, eight weeks ago, we had a $900 billion relief package pass, pass Congress. So the Republican argument, I think, is that the United States government is like an anaconda that's eating one too many -- one too many alligators here. There's only so much that we can digest and money that we can pump out in a reasonable span of time.
CHUCK TODD:
It is remarkable. Six trillion dollars once this passes, assuming it does, $6 trillion in less than a calendar year that the government has wanted to insert. Gene Rob -- Eugene, I'm curious. Democrats seem to be so upset about the minimum wage thing that you're starting to hear more conversations about the filibuster, more conversations about sort of the -- what they believe is the -- sort of the unfair, center right leaning of all of our institutions, particularly the Senate. Unless Joe Manchin changes his mind though, this isn't going to go anywhere.
EUGENE ROBINSON:
Right. Democrats don't have the votes to get rid of the filibuster now. So you will hear more complaining, I think, and more talk about it. You know, a filibuster does, generally speaking, seem like an artifact from a bygone era, when senators crossed the aisle. And, and it kind of makes the Senate into a smaller, less efficient, much less efficient version of the House, where everybody votes along party lines, and the filibuster just serves to make nothing happen, or as little as possible. You know, that said, I think the focus for Democrats just politically speaking, and also for the country, should be on the Covid relief act right now. The, the part of it that survives, everything but the minimum wage, you know, will get through the Senate, I think. And I think politically, that's smart, because the elements of that plan are very popular.
CHUCK TODD:
I want to shift gears here to the new allegation against Andrew Cuomo. A second woman has come out, indicating some -- that Governor Cuomo made her feel uncomfortable in many ways. Here's his statement from last night, where in an odd -- where he basically confirms at least some of the substance of the conversations they had. "When she came to me and opened up about being a sexual assault survivor and how it shaped her in her ongoing efforts to create an organization that empowered her voice to help other survivors, I tried to be supportive and helpful. Ms. Bennett's initial impression was right. I was trying to be a mentor to her. I never made advances toward Ms. Bennett, nor did I ever intend to act in any way that was inappropriate. The last thing I ever wanted was to make her feel any of the things that are being reported." Carol Lee, that statement to me was pretty eyebrow raising of itself because it seemed to confirm at least some of the substance, and certainly to bring up her own sexual assault seemed to be highly inappropriate.
CAROL LEE:
Yeah, Chuck, and it's very different and stands out from statements we've seen from officials in the past who've been accused of similar allegations, where there's an outright denial. That's not at all, as you point out, what we see here. And this is something that Democrats are going to be asked about, the White House is going to be asked about. We’ve heard -- I spoke with White House officials this morning who said, "Look, everybody who comes forward deserves to be heard. We support an independent review." And so -- and this is just another instance where, particularly with Governor Cuomo, where they're having to answer questions about his conduct in office. Prior to this, there were earlier allegations, and then there was his handling of nursing homes. So it's really something that sounds like it could eventually lead somewhere. And this independent review will obviously see that through, but also something where there's a little hands off approach from the White House.
CHUCK TODD:
Gene Robinson, I mean, this Democratic party of 2021 -- can you imagine Andrew Cuomo surviving in it?
EUGENE ROBINSON:
It's, it’s kind of tough right now. I mean, look, I've, I’ve been in management, right? And I have managed and mentored female subordinates and have done so without any reference to their sexual -- sex lives. So that’s kind of -- that should be a no-brainer, and it should've been a no-brainer years and years and years ago. And it certainly is now, so this is a problem for him.
CHUCK TODD:
Yeah. It’s a -- I think it's a big one. All right, I'm going to pause it there. There's obviously a lot more to say, but I am up against a break here. When we come back, northern exposure. My interview with Canada's prime minister, Justin Trudeau and why he's happy to see the change in the White House.
CHUCK TODD:
Welcome back. It’s been a busy week. President Biden and Justin Trudeau held their first bilateral meeting this week -- they did it virtually -- with the Canadian prime minister welcoming renewed US leadership on a number of issues, especially Covid and climate change. Mr. Trudeau made it clear he welcomes the recent change at the White House. The prime minister and I sat down on Friday, also virtually, and I began by asking him about the leadership vacuum he believes was created over the past four years:
PRIME MINISTER JUSTIN TRUDEAU:
Well, I think the issues that we're dealing with, whether it's climate change, whether it's making sure the middle class has a real shot in a, a globalized world, these are things that we naturally have to work together on. And of course as a Canadian, I believe that we all need to work together in a more active way, and I'm glad to see the new administration, this is something I spoke with President Biden about directly, it's great to see America re-engage. I think certainly there were things that were more challenging under the previous administration in terms of moving the dial in the right direction on the international stage. But, at the same time, you know, we all have democracies that go in different directions from time to time. And the, the sweep of the work that we need to do together as, as allied nations in the G7 and elsewhere, continues to be really important.
CHUCK TODD:
What are some specific areas? I mean, in some ways this, this change for many people is simply rhetorical from Trump to Biden. But what are some concrete sort of global policy initiatives do you believe that, that the Biden administration can now help push forward?
PRIME MINISTER JUSTIN TRUDEAU:
Well, I mean, obviously the, the first thing that comes to mind is Covid. The, the approach that the president is taking on Covid right now much more aligns with where Canada has been for quite a while, grounded in science, grounded in protection of people as the best way to protect the economy, and understanding that, that being there to support people is absolutely essential so that we can get through this as quickly as possible. We're much more aligned, and quite frankly, the president rejoining the international COVAX Facility to ensure that we get through this everywhere, not just in the wealthy countries, is a really positive sign. Another area is on the massive change -- challenge we're facing on climate change, which is the other really big crisis we're in right now that the previous administration didn't focus on that much. And certainly President Biden and I are very, very closely aligned on not just the need to address climate change, but the tremendous economic opportunities linked to moving towards cleaner electricity, cleaner jobs, better opportunities for all of us in the middle class and those working hard to join it.
CHUCK TODD:
On vaccines, I know that you guy -- your country just approved some authorization for the AstraZeneca vaccine. But how do you answer the question of why so few Canadians have been vaccinated so far compared to your neighbors to the south here?
PRIME MINISTER JUSTIN TRUDEAU:
Well, we have -- from the very beginning, we knew that vaccinations were going to be extremely important. So we signed about seven different major contracts with vaccine makers from around the world and are seeing now three vaccines in Canada with more hopefully to be approved in the coming, coming weeks and months. Obviously it's not going as fast as, as everyone would want. We all want this pandemic to be over yesterday and to vaccinate everyone as quickly as possible. But we're confident that in the coming weeks, hundreds of thousands of vaccines every week, millions into the coming months. We are going to have everyone vaccinated probably by the end of the summer. And that is something that we're, we’re very positive and excited about.
CHUCK TODD:
Do you --
PRIME MINISTER JUSTIN TRUDEAU:
But in the meantime, we just have to keep hanging on like everyone is and get through this.
CHUCK TODD:
Let me go to one place where you and President Biden do not see eye to eye, and this is on the Keystone Pipeline. Look, nobody is going to mistake you for somebody who's not an environmentalist. You have been outspoken on climate change just in our conversation now. But as you know here in this country, the Keystone Pipeline -- it is a symbol on this issue in many ways. Can you really make a good environmental case for the Keystone Pipeline to Americans here? Because Americans who are against this don't see it.
PRIME MINISTER JUSTIN TRUDEAU:
Well, I think one of the things that Americans haven't perhaps noticed is over the past four years, five years, indeed, Canada has taken huge strides on fighting climate change. We also recognize that the world still relies on fossil fuels right now. We do have to continuously transform our mix to de-carbonize as much as possible. Getting that balance right is something we've been working on very hard, and yes, the decision around Keystone XL was a disappointment. But when you talk about clean energy and hydro-electricity from Canada, when we talk about what we can do around smarter grids, what we can do around electric vehicles and transportation, there is so much we’re -- we spoke about earlier this week and so much we're going to continue to do together.
CHUCK TODD:
Does this mean you're done asking for -- are you going to stop advocating for it here? Do you feel as if the Keystone Pipeline is now dead?
PRIME MINISTER JUSTIN TRUDEAU:
I think it's fairly clear that the U.S. administration has made its decision on that, and we're much more interested in ensuring that we're moving forward in ways that are good for both of our countries. I think there's so much we can do together that I don't spend too much time worrying about the tension points. It'll always come up in our relationship, but we'll work through them, particularly given the alignment on so many things that we're able to bring with this new administration.
CHUCK TODD:
Before I let you go, I'm just curious. What was your reaction in the moment when you watched the Capitol riot on January 6th from Ottawa?
PRIME MINISTER JUSTIN TRUDEAU:
Dismay. A reminder of the fact that democracy is something we need to keep working at. A reminder that none of us are immune from polarization and anger and frustration. Certainly there is -- there was a real sense that we all need to be careful about what we say and how we, how we lead as a way of trying to bring people together and unify people. But that was a, that was a scene that Canadians watched with consternation and horror and, and real concern.
CHUCK TODD:
All right. Last question, for real. My friends in Buffalo and Detroit in particular care about this issue. What is the metric you're looking at to decide when to open the border?
PRIME MINISTER JUSTIN TRUDEAU:
I think there's an awful lot of different metrics we need to look at on, on border and on keeping Canadians safe from Covid-19. Obviously case counts, presence of variants, hospitalizations -- all these things factor into the expert analysis. Our public health experts telling us what the right measures are and how concerned we have to be about, about variants. Obviously as vaccinations increase, we’re all hoping for good news and to get through this. But we'll continue to engage with the, with the White House and with the administration on the best times to start releasing border measures. But, for now, we all need to keep safe, and that means keeping them in place.
CHUCK TODD:
Mr. Prime Minister, I really appreciate the time you gave us. It’s always a pleasure to get your perspective. Thanks for coming on.
PRIME MINISTER JUSTIN TRUDEAU:
It’s always a pleasure, Chuck. Thank you.
CHUCK TODD:
And you can see my entire interview with Prime Minister Trudeau on our website, MeetthePress.com. Comments on their future with Saudi Arabia. When we come back, curious Georgia. How Democrats won the state and why we all should have seen this coming a lot sooner. That's next.
CHUCK TODD:
Welcome back. Data download time. Democrats won both Senate seats in the Georgia runoff last month. And those results reflected big changes in the state that were actually a decade in the making. In 2008, Barack Obama captured nearly 53% of the national popular vote, but just 47% of Georgia, losing the state to John McCain. Joe Biden won the national popular vote by two points, less than Obama nationally, but earned two points more than him in Georgia. And you want to know why that is? It could be thanks to the seven counties in Metro Atlanta. In each of these counties, Biden did at least 11 percentage points better in 2020 than Obama did in 2008. In fact, Biden won five of them by large margins, and he only lost two of them narrowly. Population growth is another problem for Republicans in Georgia. In fact, since 2010, the country overall has seen a 6.3% growth in population. But those seven counties have grown at least 6.7%. So faster than the national average. And some of them, a lot more. And they're growing with Democratic friendly voters. Right now, Georgia reminds us a lot of Virginia 12 years ago, a diversifying southern state turning purple and perhaps blue. Virginia just outlawed the death penalty. What do you think? When we come back, Republicans just can't seem to quit Donald Trump. A look at what's happening at the CPAC Conference next.
[BEGIN TAPE]
GOV. RON DeSANTIS:
We cannot, we will not go back to the days of the failed Republican establishment of yesteryear.
REP. MATT GAETZ:
The leadership of our party is not found in Washington, D.C. You are the energy. We are America.
GOV. KRISTI NOEM:
Let it be heard loud and clear from us right now. We will not be sheep.
[END TAPE]
CHUCK TODD:
"We will not be sheep." Welcome back. Those are some of the voices at this weekend's Conservative Political Action Conference meeting in Orlando, CPAC. Or as even Donald Trump Jr. started calling it, T-PAC. Former President Trump will be speaking there today. You know, Bret, the words, when she said "sheep" there and I've been thinking about CPAC and the golden Trump that's moving around there, it does feel like it is a cult of personality down there. So the sheep comment, I think some people would say, "I think everybody's following one leader."
BRET STEPHENS:
Yeah. The golden Trump I think put many people in mind of the golden calf as the ultimate false idol and the worship of it by so many of the people at CPAC. These are people who don't seem to have noticed that they just lost three successive, major elections. They lost the House in 2018, thanks to Trump. They lost the presidency last year, thanks, of course, to the personality of Trump. And they lost the Senate, which they could've held, again, thanks to Trump. So when they talk about the failed Republican establishment, you’re -- you feel like you're dealing with people in an alternative universe who simply haven't noticed that they have just squandered Republican victories for four straight years. As long as CPAC maintains this kind of grip on the conservative mind, I don't see any way in which a Republican Party can come back united, coherent, and decent and capable of winning national elections.
CHUCK TODD:
Kay, can you be a successful Republican in Iowa without being pro-Trump?
O. KAY HENDERSON:
Well, what's interesting here is this past week the Iowa legislature passed election law changes. During the debate, Donald Trump's name was not invoked by the Republicans pushing that forward. But it was clear that's why they were doing it, number one. Number two, on the Republican side here, it's a bit like Democrats right after Donald Trump was inaugurated. They couldn't say the words "President Trump." Governor Kim Reynolds this past week had a news conference at which she thanked the federal government. And talked about how the White House was helping with this vaccine rollout. I'm not sure I've ever heard her say the words "President Joe Biden." So that is the sort of dynamic that's roiling through the Republican Party here. They know to be successful in 2022 they need those Trump voters to turn out again.
CHUCK TODD:
You know, Carol, I'm short on time so I'm not going to play the sound. But, you know, there were two telling moments in Washington this week about sort of Trump's grip on the party. One was the McConnell question that he got when he appeared on Fox, when he was asked about, "Well, if Trump's the nominee in '24 would he support him." He said yes. And then we had the McCarthy and Liz Cheney moment, where essentially they disagreed on Trump's role in the party. Kevin McCarthy and everybody else goes in one direction and Liz Cheney literally walks in the opposite direction. The McConnell statement, McCarthy, it's still Trump's party even here in Washington.
CAROL LEE:
It's very much, Chuck, still Trump's party. And we're going to hear from the former president today. And that'll be made clear. He's going to go after Joe Biden for his policies on immigration, on reopening schools. He's going to lay out his vision for how he sees the future of the Republican party. Newsflash, it's going to heavily involve him. He's going -- expected to give endorsements and give signals on how he'll play in 2022. What we don't know is how he'll signal what his own future political ambitions are. That's still an open question, though I think you can expect a lot of innuendo and suggestions that he's not going to be exiting the stage any time soon. This is the beginning of him really reemerging and kind of taking a very public presence. He's supposed to go long and off-script, I'm told. And it's going to be something that everybody's watching, including the White House, even though they're going to act like it's not going on.
CHUCK TODD:
You know, Gene, and I think that’s the thing that Democrats -- I talked to quite a few of them who think, "Sure, let Trump be the dominant voice of the party. That'll help." But I'm thinking, "I remember hearing that discussion in 2015." How did that turn out?
EUGENE ROBINSON:
Well, Donald Trump won that election, although he lost the popular vote by three million. And as Bret said, since then, Donald Trump has done little but lose elections for the Republican Party. I mean they, they have a strategy now that's based not on getting votes, but on voter suppression and everything else. And I think that the sheep metaphor is just really a bad choice --
CHUCK TODD:
Yeah.
EUGENE ROBINSON
-- for the Republican Party.
CHUCK TODD:
I don't think that was the right phrase. I'm guessing she might come up with a new one. Hey, I apologize for the time crunch today. That's all I have. It was a busy week, as you can tell. Thank you for watching. We'll be back next week because if it's Sunday, it's Meet the Press.