KRISTEN WELKER:
This Sunday, funding fight. My exclusive interview with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy who rejects any diplomatic negotiations to end the war with Russia.
VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY:
We don't want to make any dialogue with terrorists. Because their word is nothing.
KRISTEN WELKER:
His message to American lawmakers divided over sending more aid to the war effort.
VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY:
If Russia will kill all of us, they will attack NATO countries. The price will be higher.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Can Ukraine still win the war? Plus, round three.The Republican presidential candidates get ready to take the debate stage here in Miami.
GOV. RON DeSANTIS:
I’m pretty confident we're going to be the guy that people ultimately are going to want to settle on.
FMR. GOV. NIKKI HALEY:
When I’m attacked, I kick back.
SEN. TIM SCOTT:
We can't win with a moderate in 2024.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Can any of the GOP challengers break through? And Trump on trial. Former President Trump is expected to take the stand this week in the civil fraud trial in New York.
FMR. PRES. DONALD TRUMP:
We’re being railroaded here.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Why are Trump’s legal troubles seemingly helping his path to the nomination? Joining me for insight and analysis are: Amy Walter, editor-in-chief of The Cook Political Report, Telemundo news anchor Julio Vaqueiro, Democratic pollster Cornell Belcher and Republican strategist Sara Fagen. Welcome to Sunday. It’s Meet the Press.
ANNOUNCER:
From NBC News in Washington, the longest running show in television history, this is a special edition of Meet the Press with Kristen Welker.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Good Sunday morning from Miami, where we will be hosting the third Republican presidential debate on Wednesday night with foreign policy front and center. Secretary of State Antony Blinken made an unannounced visit this morning to the Israeli-occupied West Bank to meet with Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas. It comes as the war in Ukraine is raging: the largest armed conflict in Europe since World War II. Russia now controls about 18% of Ukraine. 18% of the U.S. would be about the size of Alaska or four Californias. This includes Crimea and part of eastern Ukraine, which Russia has occupied since 2014. It’s a war which many predicted Russia would quickly dominate, instead has been drawn into what one of Ukraine's top generals called a “stalemate.” NBC News now reporting that U.S. and European officials have begun quietly talking to the Ukrainian government about what possible peace negotiations with Russia might entail to end the war. President Biden has proposed $105 billion dollars in emergency support for Ukraine, Israel and other national security threats. But Republican support for war is flagging. On Thursday, the Republican-led House passed a $14 billion dollar bill in military aid for Israel alone, a bill the White House says President Biden will veto. The newly-installed House speaker responded.
[START TAPE]
SPEAKER MIKE JOHNSON:
We have obligations, we have things that we can and should do around the world, but we have to take care of our own house first. If we’re going to take care of border in Ukraine, we need to take care of America's border as well.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
On Saturday, I sat down with an emotional President Volodymyr Zelenskyy who spoke to me in both Ukrainian and English and acknowledged his people are tired but undeterred. His plea to U.S. lawmakers: give Ukraine one more year of aid and it will be able to close its funding gap or, he warned, the price for the United States will be even higher.
KRISTEN WELKER:
President Zelenskyy, let me start off by asking you: It has now been more than 600 days since Russia invaded Ukraine. How would you describe the state of the war right now?
VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY [TRANSLATED]:
Thank you very much for the question. As far as the situation on the front is concerned, I think – of course, I cannot provide all the details to you. But nevertheless, we hold the initiative in our hands. You can imagine what a full-scale war or what two years of a full-scale war is like. Everybody gets tired. Even the iron gets tired. But, nevertheless, I am proud of our warriors and of our people, that they are strong. Our people are helping. Our people are mobilized. And our people have a strong desire to win. Again, some spheres, Kristen, we see steps forward. Sometimes they are slow steps because of the landmines which Russia planted there while we were preparing for a counter-offensive. And in some spheres, we have problems with the air. Unfortunately, this thing hasn't changed since the beginning of the full-scale invasion. We have seen Russia's domination in the air. It's a fact. And without the air defense, our steps forward are slow.
VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY [ENGLISH]:
But I can give you one example about Black Sea. We have great success in the Black Sea. Even after Russia blocked Black Sea and canceled our grain corridor, grain initiative -- by the way, we help by this corridor countries of Asia, countries of – every country to manage the hunger. And I think that was very important, crucial. And when Russia canceled it because they had initiative in the Black Sea, they blocked Black Sea. Now, we really defeated it. We really defend our Black Sea, and Russian fleet is being destroyed by our ammunition. And now, Russia doesn't control fleet. That means that we used all ammunition — sea, drones and air defense — to defend this region. It's very important. That was a signal – signal that we can manage this war even against such a terrorist organization like Kremlin.
KRISTEN WELKER:
The strategy of this war. This summer, and you reiterated right now, the progress has been slower than desired. And recently one of your top generals said Ukraine has, quote, "reached a stalemate." Has the war reached a stalemate?
VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY [ENGLISH]:
Kristen, you know, on the 24th of February when Russia invaded our cities, country, our land, our families, and they attacked all of us, the world gave us three days. Some European countries who really believed in us, they said one month. Others said it will be very quick. And this is really this situation, what they said. But now we speak with you. Now, it's almost two years. Now, initiative in our hands. Yes, a lot of people, of course, in the world are tired. Of course, it's understandable. Somebody tired on the battlefield, somebody tired on the works, and somebody tired abroad. They want to come back home to their husbands, to their soldiers, to these guys, women and children. Somebody tired from European leaders to support Ukraine. Yes, of course because long war.
KRISTEN WELKER:
I hear you rejecting the characterization by your top generals that this is a stalemate. Are you changing strategies, as has been reported?
VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY [TRANSLATED]:
I believe that today indeed, the situation is difficult. I don't think that this is a stalemate, this attack on the, on the, on the part of the Russian army. But before that, we did a lot. We have done a lot. We had a very difficult situation. They thought that they would checkmate us, but this didn't happen. And on the contrary, we took the initiative in our hands. Now, Russia wants to do – to attack us. They are attacking us in the east of our country while losing thousands of people and hundreds of units, pieces of weaponry. We don’t see it. But in the Andriivka direction in the last week, 200 pieces of weaponry, of ammunition were lost – have been lost. Thousands of people have been lost. They have been killed.
VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY [ENGLISH]:
So we don't see details. Sometimes our attitude to the war, that somebody staying on the one – one place. But it's not just stay. When you stay, you kill the enemy, and this is the fact. Of course, Russia understands that now when focus from Ukraine taken off, and when this focus to the Middle East, and when they try to divide the world in this crisis, Israel/Palestine crisis, and of course, of course Russia is very happy with this war. They don't count how many children were killed there. They don't think about the flag or nationality. We saw some moments their attitude. We saw what was in Makhachkala, Dagestan. This is the part of Russia. This is what the biggest wave of antisemitism. So what they want? They just want to divide the world, to take focus from Ukraine to another war. And if it will not be enough for them – I’m again repeat it, and I’m repeating it these two years – if it will be not enough for them – it will not be enough. Because Syria was not enough. They began in Ukraine. After Ukraine, in the Middle East. They will continue their plan. And you see that Iran is supporting them, in Ukraine supporting them with the weapons and now in the Middle East again.
KRISTEN WELKER:
So, President Zelenskyy, are you looking at a shift in strategy to try to gain the upper hand right now?
VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY [TRANSLATED]:
Our military are coming up with different plans, with different operations in order to move forward faster and to strike Russian Federation unexpectedly. But barehanded, it's impossible to do without weapons, without relevant, proper weapons. It's a fact. Therefore, we have to prepare. We have to clearly understand what steps could be more appropriate, and we have to move forward faster.
KRISTEN WELKER:
President Zelenskyy, NBC News is reporting that U.S. and European officials have begun quietly talking to your government about what possible peace negotiations with Russia might look like to end this war. Have you personally been involved in these talks, and what's the status of these talks?
VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY [ENGLISH]:
A lot of different voices around us. I heard a lot of different voices and emotions and without any contradictions and propositions, a lot of different things. But as for me, I don’t have – for today I don't have any relations with Russians. And they know my position. That is the position of my country. That is the position of our people. We don't want to make any dialogue with terrorists. And the president of the United States and Congress, bipartisan support, all these people, they know that I am not ready to speak with the terrorists because their word is nothing. Nothing. We can't trust terrorists because terrorists always come back, always come back.
KRISTEN WELKER:
As you know, with this attack against Israel, Americans are now being asked to fund two wars. And there's growing skepticism about ongoing support of Ukraine, particularly among Republicans in Congress. What is your message to U.S. lawmakers who don't want to send another dollar to Ukraine?
VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY [TRANSLATED]:
Thank you very much for this question. First of all, it's not aid to Ukraine. I think that it is aid to the United States and the European Union. As I said, I believe that Ukraine is defending our joint values, common values. I will repeat: I believe that Putin wants to divide Europe, to weaken the United States of America. And he always wants to find a hot spot in Europe so that there is no stability in Europe, in the Middle East – what's happening now – and on other continents, too. And I believe that Ukraine is defending both the European Union, the European continent, and our common values.
VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY [ENGLISH]:
My message, one more message, you have to understand how we fight, how we live. You have to understand, just to come to Ukraine and see. We are the same people. We have the same values. I'm really thankful to President Biden. By the way, he was here. And I think he's a strong man. And it was a historical moment. He's a hero because he was in those moments under a Russian missile attack. But he was here, and he understood more about Ukraine. Yes, he knew Ukraine even before this invasion. Yes, he knew, but he understood the heroic attitude Ukraine has to democracy, to their people, to their houses, to their families. And he understood. He began more strongly to help us. And I'm also thankful to Congress. I had the opportunity to address Congress two times. And really, Congress and the bipartisan support was very important in a very important moment. Now, it's a very important moment not to lose the will, not to lose this strong position and not to lose your democracy.
KRISTEN WELKER:
As you know –
VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY [ENGLISH]:
Please, it's very important. Now, you don't send your soldiers. God bless. Don't send your daughters and sons to other NATO country. Because if Russia will kill all of us, they will attack NATO countries, and you will send your sons and daughters. And it will be – I'm sorry, but the price will be higher. That is my signal. And believe in democracy, believe in Ukraine.
KRISTEN WELKER:
How long should they expect to send more money? When do you anticipate you can end this war, President Zelenskyy?
VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY:
I think that the next year with the challenges, because this is the year of your elections. Now, again, we see the critical situation in the Middle East. So I think your help is very important for the next year. And that is crucial. And I think, if we will manage all the things that I said, the gap will be minimized in our budget. And after that, after next year, if – it the war will not finish next year – if – if it will not finish – I think that using air defense systems, using this platform of cooperation and co-production, and using these new jobs, I think we will manage to minimize this gap and you will not help us such high price. I'm sure. That's it.
KRISTEN WELKER:
And to be very specific, I'm going to ask you about the election momentarily. You are asking for more air defenses. F-16s obviously are in the process of being ready. What more air defenses do you need, President Zelenskyy? Can you be specific?
VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY [ENGLISH]:
Yes. Anti-drone systems and specific drones which our defense ministers and commanders they know very well. That's drones which can attack enemies and also drones which are intelligent. They provide intelligence. So these specific things we began to produce.
KRISTEN WELKER:
And when we come back, more of my interview with President Zelenskyy, including his response to former President Trump's proposal to end the war in 24 hours.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Welcome back. As the Republican presidential candidates prepare to meet in Miami this week for their third debate, Ukrainian President Zelenskyy spoke directly to the frontrunner who will not be on stage, former President Donald Trump.
KRISTEN WELKER:
President Zelenskyy, former President Trump, who is the GOP frontrunner, has said that if he is reelected he could end this war in 24 hours. What is your reaction and message to former President Trump about that?
VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY [ENGLISH]:
Former President Trump said that about 24 hours, that he can manage it and finish the war. For me, what can I say? So he's very welcome as well. President Biden was here, and he – I think he understood some details which you can understand only being here. So I invite President Trump. If he can come here, I will need 24 minutes – yes, 24 minutes; not more. Yes. Not more. Twenty-four minutes to explain President Trump that he can't manage this war. He can't bring peace because of the Putin. If, but always there is an "if," If he's not trying and if he's not ready to give our territory for this terrible man, for the Putin, if you are not ready to give it, if you are not ready to give our independence, he – he – he can't manage it. Yes.
KRISTEN WELKER:
You have –
VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY [ENGLISH]:
– So he's very welcome.
KRISTEN WELKER:
He's welcome to come to Ukraine. Other presidential candidates have obviously come to Ukraine as well. Have you had any contact with former President Trump since he left office, President Zelenskyy?
VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY [ENGLISH]:
No. No. No, no. That's why he's very welcome to repeat our tradition, which was when he was the president.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Do you think he would have Ukraine's back if he were to be reelected?
VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY [ENGLISH]:
Really, I don't know. Really, I don't know. I hope that – that – that it depends not only on the president institutionally. I think it depends on the opinion of Americans, of your society. I think that is most important. I think it's important in the United States and EU, the attitude of just ordinary people. It's their support. It's their money. It – it depends on them.
KRISTEN WELKER:
There are reports that you plan to visit Israel. Is that true, and what will your goal be?
VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY [TRANSLATED]:
From the very start, on the first day of the attack by the terrorist organization Hamas against Israel, we condemned this aggression and we stated our position. And I said that we are ready to go to Israel today. It is difficult to say because I'm a president of a country at war, and you know that on our battlefield it's very hard. Therefore, my visit there depends on a number of things. I have to be open. First – so what's happening on the battlefield defines many things. And, second, it depends on whether we will be able to get our citizens of Ukraine who are stranded there. If we can get them out of there, if for this it's necessary for me to be there, in Israel, in Egypt, wherever our people are released, I will fly there if it's possible. If that can be done without my involvement at the level of diplomacy, they will do that then.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Do you believe Israel is following international law?
VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY [TRANSLATED]:
I have to be sincere. We are looking at this situation as if something new. It's not a new situation at all. It's a fire that has been burning between Israel and Palestine, and some people are still throwing matches into this fire. And I'm sure that Russia was behind and sponsoring Hamas. And Iran, too. That's who is to blame. When we talk about laws, rules, where there are terrorists, there are no rules. Everything is beyond laws. Everybody's trying to save their own lives and fight against the enemy using all the effort, all the forces. First, in order to finish this war and sit down at the negotiation table, pressure on Russia and Iran, you have to admit that these countries are behind approaches. And I would also add North Korea there. You saw how many North Korean munitions were found in Gaza. It's a fact, absolute fact. And it's difficult, of course. The main thing is that if terrorists are attacking, if terrorists attack, if they behead children, you have the full right to defend people and defend your own country, state. But we have to understand: If we can open humanitarian corridors, take away prisoners of war, help people who are not involved there, the whole world should do this and the whole world should do all they can to stop this war.
KRISTEN WELKER:
President Zelenskyy, thank you so much. Before you go, if you want to share: What keeps you going? Do you ever feel defeated?
VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY [ENGLISH]:
I have a lot of power, but even feeling strong, and I have a lot of energy, it doesn't mean that we want to fight all our lives because the price is high, like I said. Because the war takes the best of us, the best heroes, the best men, women, children. That's it. But we are not ready to give our freedom to this [EXPLETIVE] terrorist, Putin. That's it. That's why we are fighting. That's it.
KRISTEN WELKER:
President Zelenskyy, thank you so much for your time this morning. We really appreciate it.
VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY [ENGLISH]:
Thank you.
KRISTEN WELKER:
President Zelenskyy’s emotions palpable there. You can see my full interview with Ukrainian president at MeetthePress.com. When we come back, how will the funding fight over Ukraine play out? Our panel is next.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Welcome back. The panel is here: Julio Vaqueiro, anchor of Noticias Telemundo; Amy Walter, editor-in-chief of The Cook Political Report; Republican strategist Sara Fagen and Democratic pollster Cornell Belcher. Thank you all for being here in Miami.
JULIO VAQUEIRO:
Thank you.
CORNELL BELCHER:
Thanks for having us.
KRISTEN WELKER:
So good to see all of you.
CORNELL BELCHER:
Anytime you want us in Miami –
KRISTEN WELKER:
Yes, we'll have to come back, right? Amy, let me start with you. I just want to go around and get everyone's reaction to what we just heard from President Zelenskyy. You could hear his emotion particularly at the end there when he used an expletive to talk about Putin. What were your takeaways, Amy?
AMY WALTER:
Well, he understands the challenge right now in front of him with the United States and the rest of the world in trying to keep Ukraine front of mind while there's a war raging in the Middle East. And so the fact that he linked Russia with Hamas I thought was an interesting way for him to do this. And basically, what he's saying is what's happening in the Middle East, yes, we should be paying attention to that, but understand it is directly linked to the chaos that Russia would like to spread throughout the rest of the world. This is about destabilizing the world order. And if we don’t do – if the United States and Europe pull out of Ukraine, you're only helping to destabilize in other parts of the world.
KRISTEN WELKER:
And Julio, that stood out to me, too. He basically warned the United States, "You will wind up sending your sons and daughters overseas to defend NATO countries."
JULIO VAQUEIRO:
Totally.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Because of what Amy is talking about.
JULIO VAQUEIRO:
Yes, I think he's always been very successful in keeping the interest on the war. However, I think he's facing a huge challenge right now. He probably has the hardest of jobs, trying to convince everybody that this is still very important. I was able to be at the border between Poland and Ukraine right when the war started. Most people thought, the refugees thought, the conflict was going to be very, very short. That Ukraine was going to win. That they were going to go back to their country in a few weeks. And now it's 20 months gone by, and there's no end in sight. So it's becoming very challenging for him.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Yeah, Sara, no one thought this conflict would last as long as it has, more than 600 days. How do you think skeptical Republicans heard President Zelenskyy?
SARA FAGEN:
Well, I would hope that they listened to his message. Because I think Amy is right, that Russia working with Iran, not condemning Hamas and their, and their terrorist attack on Israel, that tells us a lot about what we need to know between these countries and what's going on in the world. So I hope they listen to him. I do believe Republicans will do the right thing and fund this. But I think it is going to be a long and painful road to get there between now and the next few weeks.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Cornell, when you talk about Republicans funding this, let's look at the polls. Because look at how many Republicans say they think the U.S. is doing too much. Sixty-two percent, that's up from 43% in August. So the opposition to, quote, unquote, as some Republicans have said, "write a blank check," is only growing.
CORNELL BELCHER:
Well, two things stick out for me on this. One is when he connected the money – send the money or you're going to be sending your sons and daughters – he was doing a lot of good work, I think, for the administration and for those who want to send money. Because that's the point to make to the American people is that your future and your security is, in fact, connected to this. So I think he helped Biden and even, some of, some of your Senate Republicans, make this point, which is important. I am struck by that number. And, Sara, be with me on this, right. Republicans – I don't know who the Republican Party is. This is not the party of Reagan anymore. I mean – look, I remember in 1994 Reagan ran the, "There's a bear in the woods" ads, right? And – bear in the woods of course being Russia. And we've got to be – take Russia seriously, and they are a threat. And he said, "Some people don't think that bear – that the bear in the woods is a threat." I think this is no longer – Democrats can now run that ad against Republicans.
SARA FAGEN:
The bear is still in the woods. I mean that’s – it's true. And I think the politics get very interesting long term as we get into the presidential race next year, where you have President Trump – these numbers are reflective of the fact that President Trump is the leader of the Republican Party, and this is his view. And his followers are following his statements on this. That's what's happening here. And so as we get into these conflicts, assuming they continue to last through next year, which certainly looks likely, how does Trump straddle being supportive of Israel and not being supportive of Ukraine, particularly when Iran and Russia are working together? That is going to be complicated for him.
KRISTEN WELKER:
And it's complicating for Republicans in the House. Right? That's the fight in the House right now.
AMY WALTER:
Well, it is. And I want to go back to Julio's part where he said the challenge that Zelenskyy has in selling this. It's not just to Republicans. The numbers among independents, too, not just in that number, but Gallop had another question asking, "Should there be basically a limit to how much money we keep giving to Ukraine?" And Independents, 63% of them said there should be a limit on this. So I think the other piece of this is Republicans' ability to connect the frustrations Americans are having at home with inflation, with worries about what's happening on the border, this feeling of insecurity and saying, "If we have all this insecurity here at home, what are we doing giving all of our money to a war that's not moving anywhere?"
JULIO VAQUEIRO:
Plus, the fact that, for some reason, the Israeli war against Hamas feels right now more real. You can see the protests in American cities. You can see antisemitism. You can see the discussion right here in real time. And the war in Ukraine feels a little bit more far away, more distant, more uncertain, maybe more theoretical.
KRISTEN WELKER:
And I think that's why you're seeing this sight where, on Capitol Hill this week, the House approved this funding bill for Israel. It included cuts to the IRS. The Democratically-led Senate said, "Hey, that's a non-starter. By the way, if you actually score it out, it didn't ultimately cut anything." But I guess the question is do you think this gets done in one fell swoop? Do they deal with Ukraine funding and Israel funding, Cornell?
CORNELL BELCHER:
Well, I don't know the answer to that. And I think that's the big question, because there is– there seems to be a lot of fever in the Republican caucus not to, in fact, tie the two together. And we've seen what happens to Speakers of the House and Republican side when they don't listen to the Freedom Caucus.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Yeah.
SARA FAGEN:
Well, I think, look, you have a brand new speaker. His first action out of the gate is he's got to defend his caucus. He's got to put forward a spending cut. Mitch McConnell is a pro, and he understands that. The question isn't, what does the House lead with? The question is, what does the House do when the Senate sends back the full funding bill? And that's where we're going to really learn about Mike Johnson's governing style and ability.
KRISTEN WELKER:
It's such a great point. It's such a key test for the newly installed House speaker. And by the way, the border is a part of the effort to get more funding, Julio.
JULIO VAQUEIRO:
That's true.
KRISTEN WELKER:
I mean, do you think that they might do something separate on Ukraine and the border, which is currently in discussion?
JULIO VAQUEIRO:
Well, that's what Mike Johnson has said, right? And, according to people I've spoken with who are very close to these issues and reporting on that in Capitol Hill, they might go into reforming asylum processes, making it more difficult to request asylum. Also, maybe, a comeback of remain in Mexico. And that's very tricky for Democrats and for the White House. There's no discussion. Something has to be done at the border. The crisis is real. But the cost for President Biden can be very high.
SARA FAGEN:
This is actually a real opportunity for Democrats, both politically and policy oriented, is to put these things together, have meaningful reforms on the border, meaningful money at the border. If they want Republicans, this is their opportunity.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Yeah, Amy. Last though on this?
AMY WALTER:
Yeah. I was going to say I agree with that. Especially because it becomes part of a bigger compromise package, rather than the White House having to go out and make a separate border policy, which is going to divide their caucus.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right, well, we're going to pause it for the moment. We will be back with more panel. And when we come back, what is the most important presidential quality Iowa Republicans are looking for in their candidate? Steve Kornacki is standing by with the results from our brand new poll. Stay with us.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Welcome back. With Donald Trump holding a commanding lead in the primary, the only chance for his Republican rivals to shake up the presidential race may be in Iowa, where the caucuses are just over two months away. Joining me now is National Political Correspondent Steve Kornacki to take us through the numbers. Steve, what headlines are you watching?
STEVE KORNACKI:
Yeah, Kristen, we've got a new poll this week with our partner out in Iowa, the Des Moines Register looking at likely Republican caucus goers and how they are stacking up right now in terms of support. And like you said, what's true nationally, what's true in other big early primary states, is true in Iowa. An enormous lead for Donald Trump, far better than two to one over his nearest rival, or I should say rivals, because that is the other headline in this poll. Nikki Haley has moved into a tie in Iowa with Ron DeSantis. Some upward movement for Haley, but again, both of them lightyears behind Donald Trump who continues to dominate out there. And we've got some new numbers we can share with you this morning that I think will help explain what goes into Trump's dominance, and what goes into that rise we're seeing with Nikki Haley. So we asked Republicans in Iowa, "What's extremely important to you, extremely important to you in a candidate?" And you can see here, nearly three out of four said the ability to beat Joe Biden. Electability is extremely important. Nothing else, no other trait, no other characteristic in a candidate came that close. We can show you how some of the others stacked up there. These are the other traits we asked about. But, so how about those voters who say electability is extremely important? How are they breaking in Iowa? Well, you can see it right here. They are breaking heavily for the former President Donald Trump. And remember, electability was supposedly, according to his rivals, going to be his undoing. All of those Trump-backed candidates who lost in 2022, he lost in 2020, his opponents thought this was going to give Republican voters pause. Our poll shows no evidence of that in Iowa. Where is Trump vulnerable in Iowa? Where has Haley made inroads? People who say, "A candidate who can work with the opposing party is extremely important to them." It's a smaller number than the electability sample, but it's a significant number nonetheless. We see Trump leads with them. But look at that, Nikki Haley is within ten points of Donald Trump, 33/25 on this question. And then what I think was interesting, we also looked at the people who said that having a candidate who is a person of faith is extremely important. And how are they breaking? And on this one, Trump is nearly at 50%, towering above the field. Folks who say a person of faith is their candidate is extremely important, and I think notable here. Tim Scott, we've seen struggling in polls in Iowa and elsewhere. He, more than anyone, has made religious faith the centerpiece of his campaign, hoping to connect with those evangelical voters in Iowa. Doesn't seem to be connecting with the voters on this question. And I think that explains a big part of his struggles in Iowa and elsewhere, Kristen.
KRISTEN WELKER:
It sure does. And it all just underscores the durability of former President Trump. Steve Kornacki, great stuff. Thank you so much. My colleague Dasha Burns is in Des Moines, Iowa with news that could shake up the race there. Dasha, what do you have?
DASHA BURNS:
Kristen, good morning. Will Iowa Governor Kim Reynolds endorse is the question that campaigns, reporters, and voters have been asking throughout this primary. And we now have the answer. Reynolds will endorse a candidate, and that candidate is Ron DeSantis, according to sources close to both governors. She's going to make it official at a rally tomorrow night here in Des Moines. And Kirsten, let's be clear about the significance of this. It's a major break of tradition. Iowa governors traditionally remain neutral ahead of their first in the nation caucuses. And it's a high-profile break from former President Trump, who has already been repeatedly hitting Reynolds for what he sees as a lack of loyalty. Now, it's true that DeSantis trails Trump by about 30 points in Iowa. But this is perhaps the only endorsement that could actually move the needle in a state whose result could set the narrative for the rest of the primaries. Reynolds is wildly popular with Republican voters here, and her support could give DeSantis some much-needed momentum in Iowa, where his campaign has gone all in. And before he takes the debate stage, where he's going to try to separate himself from the competition on Wednesday night, Kristen.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Yeah, the all-important question: Will it move the needle? Fantastic scoop. Dasha Burns, thank you so much. And when we come back, the third Republican presidential debate is just days away. What can we expect to see? More from the panel after this quick break.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Welcome back, the panel is still with us. Cornell, I want to start with you. Your reaction to the polling we just saw, which shows that former President Trump still has this strong lead in Iowa. But now DeSantis is getting this key endorsement, as Dasha just reported.
CORNELL BELCHER:
Yeah, we'll see if this endorsement bumps him, but they need a bump, right? When you look at this polling in Iowa, and I was looking to see if anyone was actually having momentum. And you could see, you know, someone began to really challenge him. It's tough to look at these internals, right? He is still - his favorability is still much higher, but also more intense. His vote is less fluid than the – than the other voters. He's sitting at 43%, 42% right now. And then there's this argument that, "Well, if the field shrinks, does it help someone else?" Well, if the field shrinks in Iowa right now, 12% of voters in Iowa right now say that he is their second choice. So they're literally running out of vote right now to get to him.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Sara?
SARA FAGEN:
Well, I think these candidates have to hold onto the fact that the number basically is 75% who are willing to look at somebody else.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Do you think there's still time?
SARA FAGEN:
So, I do think there's time. I mean, look, Iowa has always been about momentum more than who wins the actual race. And so, you know, if Trump underperforms, if Nikki Haley or Governor DeSantis overperform, that becomes the story going into New Hampshire and it gives somebody an opportunity to have a moment there. And I think that's the strategy that they have to be thinking about.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Amy, what's your take? How significant do you think this endorsement is by Governor Reynolds?
AMY WALTER:
Yeah, I don't know that it's going to dent the biggest asset that Donald Trump has, which is he's seen as the candidate who can beat Joe Biden. And so having support of a governor, I think 20 or 30 years ago, that was the sort of thing that could really jumpstart your campaign. The debate will obviously be very important, too, for DeSantis, to be able to try to blunt the momentum from Haley. So this to me, is part number one of blunting her momentum. We're no longer talking just about her going into the debate. And then having that strong performance. The other person I'm looking at is Tim Scott, who he's all in on Iowa and he absolutely has to be. But as your poll pointed out, the fact that he's been leaning into his faith, trying to win over evangelical voters. And even with voters who say that faith is the most important issue to them, he's barely registering.
KRISTEN WELKER:
It's just so staggering to see that number, and how high Trump registers in that poll. Julio, this is the debate taking place here in Miami. We are so excited about it. This is a place where you see former President Trump battling it out with the Governor, Ron DeSantis. And the flip side to all of this is that Trump's gotten some big endorsements here.
JULIO VAQUEIRO:
Absolutely. Well, Senator Rick Scott just endorsed him. And that's interesting because he's not really big on endorsing. They are friends from a long time ago. But I remember interviewing Senator Scott in March this year, and he wasn't willing to say he was going to support Trump.
But he was very outspoken about criticizing Ron DeSantis and his policies. They disagree on so many issues: abortion, in-state tuition for dreamers, and many other policies. And it's not the first endorsement that Trump gets from Republicans in Florida. So it's interesting to see how just a year ago Ron DeSantis was winning with such a large margin, his reelection. Now he's losing – losing the grip of his own party and his own state.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Yeah, because that was his big selling point, "Look at my big win here in Florida." The backdrop to Wednesday's debate is all of this and even more polling. I want to show this, guys, because it's pretty stunning to look at. This is from a New York Times Siena College Poll, which shows that Trump leads Biden in five out of six critical swing states. And of course you have this week where Mr. Trump's going to be counter-programming the debate. Sara, he's going to be holding a rally here. And guess what? On Monday he's going to be in court. His fraud trial. I spoke to one of his allies today who says they plan to capitalize on those optics. They are feeling defiant about him being in court. What are you going to be watching for on the debate stage?
SARA FAGEN:
Well, I think these other candidates trying to take on Trump, they have to figure out their moment. And the dynamics now with the two folks tied, the governors Haley and DeSantis, the question is how do they play it? I think she really needs to just stay the course. She has done so well in these debates. She comes across almost statuesque, which is exactly how you want to be described at this time in the world, what's going on in the world. I think for DeSantis it's harder. He's got to figure out how to peel off Trump voters. In many ways, he needs to not take the bait by going after her, which will be the temptation, because she's not really pulling from him. He needs to pull from Trump. So he's got to figure out how to bucket Trump, bracket Trump, and pull people off of Trump.
KRISTEN WELKER:
And, Cornell, that's been his challenge this whole time. You have DeSantis kind of running to the right of Trump, trying to get those Trump voters. But you can't get those Trump voters. They're solidly behind Trump.
CORNELL BELCHER:
Well, I would argue that they – they've helped Trump in many ways. When you look at NBC's polling there in Iowa, for example, when you look at the traits, I mean, Trump has a big advantage in all these traits. And the one that sticks out to me, all traits aren't equal, because I'm going to guess that the most important trait there is “Can they beat Joe Biden?” And by the way, Trump has a big advantage there. But the whole field has helped him because they've said, in fact, he has beaten.They’ve all bought into the big lie. So if, in fact, voters say, "Well, he's already beaten Biden. What's my – what’s my rationale for voting for you?"
KRISTEN WELKER:
Yeah. Amy, what are you going to be watching for Wednesday?
AMY WALTER:
I like what Sara set up. This dynamic with the two candidates who right now are battling to be that alternative to Donald Trump. Don't we feel like we're back in 2016 again?
KRISTEN WELKER:
A lot of days, yes.
AMY WALTER:
Where the focus, and especially because Trump's not on stage, they go and turn on each other to become the second-place candidate, still trailing Trump by a significant amount. Not willing to challenge Trump directly, in part because some of the things you would think, "Oh, I'm going to go challenge the front-running candidate," whether it's indictments or electability, voters don't buy it.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Julio, you think the gloves really start to come off on Wednesday night?
JULIO VAQUEIRO:
Well, they have to, right? I mean time is running out, so they have to. And I think Nikki Haley has been very successful right now to show that she's a good alternative. But they just have to prove that this is a two-people race before – before running.
SARA FAGEN:
I think the other thing is you've got candidates, as Amy pointed out, Senator Scott, Governor Christie, they need to start to break through here. And Chris Christie has the ability to do that. He's probably the most skilled debater on the stage. And so we need to be looking for that as well.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right, we'll see if anyone has a breakout moment. Before we go, join us for the NBC News Republican Presidential Debate Wednesday night at 8:00 p.m. Eastern, 5:00 p.m. Pacific right here on NBC, and streaming on NBC News NOW. That is all for today. Thank you to our great panel. Thank you for watching. We'll be back next week, because if it's Sunday, it's Meet the Press.