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Meet the Press - October 30, 2022

Tom Winter, Sen. Amy Klobuchar (D-Minn.), Gov. Chris Sununu (R-N.H.), Garrett Haake, Marianna Sotomayor, Kimberly Atkins Stohr and Brad Todd

CHUCK TODD:

This Sunday. Violent assault.

[BEGIN TAPE]

CHIEF WILLIAM SCOTT:

This was not a random act. This was intentional and it’s wrong.

[END TAPE]

CHUCK TODD:

The husband of House Speaker Nancy Pelosi – attacked by a man with a hammer inside their San Francisco home. This did not happen in a vacuum.

[BEGIN TAPE]

PROTESTERS:

You’re done. You’re done.

[END TAPE]

CHUCK TODD:

Lawmakers in both parties are experiencing growing threats of violence and intimidation.

[BEGIN TAPE]

PRES. JOE BIDEN:

Condemn what produces the violence.

[END TAPE]

CHUCK TODD:

Why political disinformation and perceptions of election fraud may be fueling this latest spike in threats. Plus, the closing arguments.

[BEGIN TAPE]

PRES. JOE BIDEN:

If we get people out to vote, we win.

[END TAPE]

CHUCK TODD:

With 9 days until Election Day, Republicans are hoping the battle for control of Congress hangs on trying to motivate voters to reject the party in power.

[BEGIN TAPE]

SEN. TED CRUZ:

We’re not just going to see a red wave. We are going to see a red tsunami.

[END TAPE]

CHUCK TODD:

While Democrats look to fire up their base with top surrogates hitting the trail

[BEGIN TAPE]

FMR. PRES. BARACK OBAMA:

Who’s going to fight to actually make our democracy work for you?

[END TAPE]

CHUCK TODD:

My guests this morning: Democratic Senator Amy Klobuchar of Minnesota and New Hampshire's Republican Governor Chris Sununu. And, youth turnout. Democrats are worried that voters under 30 are not motivated and won't turn out in big numbers. Joining me for insight and analysis are: NBC News Senior Capitol Hill Correspondent Garrett Haake, Marianna Sotomayor of The Washington Post, Republican Strategist Brad Todd, and Kimberly Atkins Stohr, senior opinion writer for The Boston Globe. Welcome to Sunday, it's Meet the Press.

ANNOUNCER:

From NBC News in Washington, the longest-running show in television history, this is Meet the Press with Chuck Todd.

CHUCK TODD:

Good Sunday morning. Friday was yet another reminder that these are not ordinary times. Consider, we are just nine days away from the first national election since the attack on the U.S. Capitol. And obviously the threat of violence hasn’t ebbed. The chilling and violent attack on Paul Pelosi - House Speaker Nancy Pelosi's 82-year-old husband - is raising fears of more political violence. Pelosi’s husband had surgery for a skull fracture and is recovering after being beaten by a man with a hammer who broke into their home in San Francisco. Speaker Pelosi was the target - but was in Washington at the time with her security detail. There was no security detail at the house. Both President Biden and former President Obama addressed the assault:

[BEGIN TAPE]

PRES. JOE BIDEN:

It’s one thing to condemn the violence, but you can't condemn the violence unless you condemn those people who continue to argue the election was not real, that it's being stolen, that all the, all the malarkey that's being put out there to undermine democracy. The talk has to stop. That’s the problem.

FMR. PRES. BARACK OBAMA:

A politics where some in office or who aspire to office, work to stir up division, to make folks as angry and as afraid of one another for their own advantage. All of this has been amped up, hyped up, 24/7 on social media, on platforms that oftentimes find controversy and conflict more profitable than telling the truth.

[END TAPE]

CHUCK TODD:

Donald Trump has yet to make any statement about the attack. The House Republican Leader Kevin McCarthy did denounce the violence. Targeted violence is not new in American politics. Our country has a long history of it: 11 U.S. presidents have been direct targets of assassins ... 4 of them were killed. Many others have been the objects of assassination plots. Democratic Congresswoman Gabby Giffords was shot in 2011. Republican Whip Steve Scalise was shot in 2017. Both almost died. But since former President Trump's election in 2016, the number of recorded threats against members of Congress has increased by 967%, that is not a typo folks, to more than 9600 last year. A month ago - Republican Senator Susan Collins warned of the surge in threats, telling "The New York Times" this: “I wouldn’t be surprised if a Senator or House member were killed." And the recent record speaks for itself. In June, a man was arrested with a gun near Supreme Court Justice Brett Kavanaugh’s home after saying he planned to kill Kavanaugh and himself. In July, a man was charged with felony stalking after threatening to kill Democratic Congresswoman Pramila Jayapal. The same month, Lee Zeldin - the Republican nominee for governor of New York - was attacked on stage at a campaign event. In August, a man was sentenced after threatening to kill Dr. Fauci and his family. Also in August, a pro-Trump armed man wearing body armor tried to breach the FBI’s Cincinnati field office in the days after the executed the search at Mar-a-Lago. In September, a Texas woman was charged after making death threats against U.S. District Judge Aileen Cannon - she’s the judge overseeing the Mar-a-Lago documents fight. And on Friday - a man pleaded guilty to threatening to kill Democratic Congressman Eric Swalwell and three members of his staff. All of this adds up to a chilling timeline of recent political violence. And none of these incidents, none of them, are even directly related to January 6th. That’s where more than 880 people have been federally charged in the Capitol insurrection so far, including a man this week who was sentenced to seven and a half years in prison for dragging police officer Michael Fanone into an angry pro-Trump crowd where he was brutally assaulted. And yet there is little evidence that some on the right have tempered their rhetoric ... and Pelosi herself has often been a target:

[BEGIN TAPE]

REP. NANCY PELOSI:

He must go. He is a clear and present danger to the nation that we all love.

MIKE COLLINS:

I’m going to Washington to stop the Pelosi agenda and you’re not going to silence me.

REP. MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE:

Biden, Pelosi and other communist Democrats hate America, hate God and hate our way of life.

FMR. PRES. DONALD TRUMP:

We’re going to end crazy Nancy Pelosi. She's nuts. She's crazy. We are going to end her political career. Her political career is going to be ended once and for all.

[END TAPE]

CHUCK TODD:

Before Friday's assault occurred, the suspect David DePape confronted Mr. Pelosi, shouting, “Where is Nancy? Where are you, Nancy?” ... those were words that are eerily similar to these on January 6th:

[BEGIN TAPE]

RIOTER:

Where are you Nancy? We’re looking for you. Nancy? Oh Nancy? Nancy? Where are you Nancy?

[END TAPE]

CHUCK TODD:

Let’s get the latest on where this investigation stands. I’m joined now by our Investigative Correspondent Tom Winter. So Tom, we know that there's multiple law enforcement agencies involved. We know that the suspect, David DePape, is going to be charged tomorrow. What else have you learned overnight?

TOM WINTER:

Right. Some important details I think you might find interesting, Chuck. And so, our understanding now is that this individual, David DePape, as you alluded to, 42, no known address, no recent employment that we're aware of, was able to get into the Pelosi bedroom, where Paul Pelosi was. All of that according to District Attorney Brooke Jenkins in an interview with NBC News yesterday. She said that this individual has been interviewed by police, so it indicates that he is at least talking to them, which might help out figuring, not only why he was there, what his specific motive was, but perhaps just as importantly, what he intended to do when he was there. Certainly, anybody that brought a hammer and attempted to kill Paul Pelosi is somebody that probably had some pretty violent intents if the speaker was there, but we're hopeful to get some more information about that. As you said, he's expected to be charged on state charges tomorrow. She also indicated that it's possible that federal authorities could move forward with charges in a parallel investigation or a parallel case as well, some time in the future.

CHUCK TODD:

You know, there’s been, a lot of the reports have indicated sort of how police got there and they witnessed the beating at the time. And there seems to be a hint that there was a third person in the house. You've got some new details on that, as well, Tom. What can you tell us?

TOM WINTER:

Well, that's correct, Chuck. So the police chief came out and did a press conference later on Friday when most people had already started to go to bed on the East Coast. And in that press conference, he stated that there was a third person inside the house that opened the door for police when they were called to that house. And that's when they saw the struggle over the hammer between DePape and Pelosi. And then DePape, according to police, struck Pelosi in the head with that hammer. You know, we've done an analysis on DePape's social media and blog posts over the years, and both law enforcement and our analysis, kind of the same in this regard, that he had some fringe left-wing views, some fringe right-wing views. But, according to our own Ben Collins, really over the last year or so, Chuck, this individual went to the alt-right-, far-right-type ideology that we've seen, talking QAnon, talking Pizzagate, and then just a lot of very anti-Semitic postings.

CHUCK TODD:

And Tom, this attack happens, and it was coincidental that DHS and other law enforcement agencies put out a public warning of domestic political violence events in the next couple of weeks surrounding the election. What more can you tell us about it?

TOM WINTER:

Yeah, they're clearly concerned about it, both the FBI, the DHS, and the National Counterterrorism Center. We can take a look at it. But essentially they are saying following the 2022 midterm elections, perceptions of election-related fraud or dissatisfaction could result in these heightened threats of violence against a broad range of targets, such as ideological opponents, so people that are on the other side of the aisle, if you will, as well as election workers. To that point, in June of 2021, the Justice Department set up a threats to election workers task force. In the past year, up until June of this year, they had 1,000 types of threatening, harassing messages to people that worked the polls. We're not talking about politicians.

CHUCK TODD:

Right.

TOM WINTER:

And over 10 percent of those have led to further federal investigations.

CHUCK TODD:

Tom Winter, this is a story I know that you've got a lot more reporting to do on. Thank you very much.

CHUCK TODD:

Joined now by Democratic Senator Amy Klobuchar of Minnesota. She chairs the committee that is responsible for oversight of the U.S. Capitol Police and federal elections. She has been on this topic for quite some time. Senator Klobuchar, welcome back to Meet the Press.

SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR:

Thank you, Chuck. It's great to be back on.

CHUCK TODD:

All right. Let me just start with that. Look, you're the committee chair, you oversee Capitol Police. Have you learned anything new about this investigation in the last 48 hours?

SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR:

Well, I think your correspondents did a great job. I'll say this: This was a vicious attack meant for the Speaker, ends up hammering the Speaker's husband. And our prayers are with her and her husband, their kids, their grandkids. A vicious attack in which she has been villainized for years, and big surprise, it's gone viral, and it went violent. And I think it's very important to note, as you mentioned, that Homeland Security warning, that this has been going on for years. The attacks on her and this group of MAGA extremists, who by the way, are putting up candidates on the ballot that Donald Trump supports, have been not ending when Donald Trump left office. They have been expanding into our politics. And many people have stayed silent during this time -- not Liz Cheney, not Adam Kinzinger -- within their own party. And I think it is really important that people realize that it is not just this moment of this horrific attack, but that we have seen violence perpetrated throughout our political system. People showing up at polling places, intimidating election officials. One in six local election officials have received threats of violence, doubling the number of threats against judges in just the last four-year period. And then you have, as you noted, elected officials in Congress, 10 times the amount of threats in a five-year period. This has to end. And there are several things we can do from a security standpoint, which I'm happy to share with you.

CHUCK TODD:

I was just going to say. Look –

SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR:

But it is also about making sure we don't add more election deniers into our political system.

CHUCK TODD:

I want to unpack this in a couple of ways. First let's talk about security of the “Big Four” leaders: the Speaker, the Republican leader, the Majority Leader in the Senate, and the Republican leader in the Senate. They have protective details that follow their person. They do not have protective details that also extend to their house. Is that going to change given these threats now?

SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR:

I think that that should be strongly considered. For the Supreme Court after the threat on Judge Kavanaugh, the actual perpetrator going into his neighborhood, we actually did pass legislation that I strongly supported on a bipartisan basis to extend to their family. So that is one possibility. But as you know, just limiting it to the top four is one of the problems, because threats are received against many members.

CHUCK TODD:

And that's the question. Look, you could figure out how to protect those that are in direct line to the presidency, but what about the other 531 members of Congress? What are they supposed to do? Can we afford to protect them all with our tax dollars?

SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR:

There can be various levels of protection, Chuck. It doesn't have to be the kind of full-out protection you see for people who are in the line of succession to the presidency. But certainly, there has to be a different level of threat that allows members to get protection. Maybe it's local police, maybe it's more funding for the marshals. So that's part of it. Something to watch for immediately when we get back: I have a bipartisan amendment that will allow members to take their private information off of the Internet. There is a similar provision that has been put forth for judges and this is part of the National Defense Reauthorization Act. So I'm very hopeful that finally I'll be able to get the support to get this done. And again, it's bipartisan. So that's something to watch for, local elected officials. We should pass the bill that makes intimidation a federal crime, and we should extend it to counting the ballots and certifying elections. We had a hearing, Senator Blunt and I did, of a local Philadelphia Republican Commissioner who talked about how when he was certifying the results in Philadelphia that Joe Biden had won, he had threats against his three kids. They said, "If you don't say what we want, we're going to go and we're going to shoot those three kids, put their address out on the internet." That's happening all over the country to Democratic and Republican officials. So we also have to up what we do when it comes to protecting local election officials, and certainly protect them in this next election.

CHUCK TODD:

So we have a de-escalation – obviously – challenge in front of us. There's one thing to get elected leaders to de-escalate, and then there's the issue of the social media companies that make money amplifying all of this. What's the bigger challenge, getting Republican leaders to de-escalate, or figuring out how to get these tech companies to stop amplifying this garbage?

SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR:

They're both humongous challenges. On the Republican side, it is making sure that whether you're a Democrat, Republican, or Independent, when you go cast your vote, you don't go vote for an election denier or the people that are coddling them. And you don't listen to Donald Trump, because he is the one that said to go wild and march down the Mall. When it comes to the social media companies, I'm one of the people, as you know, that's been way out there on this. Because I think that it's one thing if someone is posting stuff on the internet, it is another when they're making money amplifying it. And that is the difference. So I would reduce their immunity, their Section 230 immunity it's called, and then that would allow people to go after them when they are making money off of amplifying election falsehoods, hate speech, you know it. And of course, there's been interest in both the Democratic and Republican side in making a change for that. And let me be clear, number one is to go after this perpetrator who committed a violent, violent crime. Number two is to change what we're doing to give more security to our elected officials, no matter what party they're in. Number three is to make sure we're not electing more election deniers who are following Donald Trump down this road. And then number four, yes, once we get some people in who care about our democracy, we have to do something about this amplification of this election denying hate speech that we see on the internet.

CHUCK TODD:

Now that Elon Musk runs Twitter, do you trust him?

SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR:

No, I do not.

CHUCK TODD:

What's your biggest fear of him running this social media platform?

SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR:

Well, I think you have to have some content moderation. Because when you look at what this guy was looking at, he was looking at just horrendous things you don't even want to talk about on your show. He was posting anti-Semitic tropes. He was showing memes that showed violence and all of this election denying, pro-Trump, MAGA crowd rhetoric. That's what we're dealing with here. And if Elon Musk has said now that he's going to start a content moderation board, that was one good sign. But I continue to be concerned about that. I just don't think people should be making money off of passing on this stuff that's a bunch of lies. You couldn't do that on your network, Chuck.

CHUCK TODD:

No, we have rules. That's right.

SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR:

You guys look at commercials, and you decide if they are false or not. That is not a requirement of these companies. And we have to change the requirements on these companies. They are making money off of us. They are making money off of this violence.

CHUCK TODD:

There's no doubt. The tech companies are a huge, huge problem in this, and they have to take some responsibility. Senator Klobuchar, Democrat from Minnesota, thank you for coming on and sharing your perspective.

SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR:

Thanks, Chuck.

CHUCK TODD:

When we come back, New Hampshire's Republican Governor Chris Sununu will weigh in on the heightened state of alert ahead of the midterms.

CHUCK TODD:

Welcome back. Some Republicans were quick to condemn the violent attack against Pelosi, including Republican Whip Steve Scalise.

[BEGIN TAPE]

REP. STEVE SCALISE:

I reached out to Speaker Pelosi earlier today to express my thoughts and prayers and concerns about Paul, and hopefully Paul is going to get out of this okay. But, you know, it's just alarming when you see any kind of violence, whether it's political violence or not. You know, it's a sad state of affairs where we are today.

[END TAPE]

CHUCK TODD:

But ads targeting Nancy Pelosi are still on the air right now, and other Republicans have faced some criticism for how they've reacted to the attack, including Virginia's Republican governor, Glenn Youngkin.

[BEGIN TAPE]

GOV. GLENN YOUNGKIN:

Speaker Pelosi's husband, they had a break-in last night in their house and he was assaulted. There's no room for violence anywhere. But we're going to send her back to be with him in California. That's what we're going to go do.

[END TAPE]

CHUCK TODD:

New Hampshire, by the way, is one of – is always one of the top-five battleground states to watch, as I like to say, "New Hampshire's always going to New Hampshire on us", as a marquee Senate race again this year. And joining me now is New Hampshire's Republican Governor Chris Sununu. He's also on the ballot. I think he hopes that New Hampshire doesn't New Hampshire on him right now. But Governor Sununu, welcome back to Meet the Press.

GOV. CHRIS SUNUNU:

Thanks, Chuck.

CHUCK TODD:

Look, I want to start, you had to cancel your inau – outdoor inauguration at the start of 2021. It was the day after the January 6th attack. You talked about direct threats against your family. I think it was your COVID policies that seemed to fire up some people to do these threats. Look, you've had to deal with this. Where do you think these – this rise in political violence is coming from?

GOV. CHRIS SUNUNU:

Well, look, you can go back to the beginning. This started back in the summer of 2020, right, when you saw cities burning, you saw not a whole lot of accountability there. The line for folks that were disagreeing with what might have been happening, not happy with what's happening in their communities, the line completely moved with very little accountability. And that set kind of a new standard in a – in a very dangerous way, and then that carries over into the politics and what happened in 2020, the insanity of what we saw on January 6th. What has happened to Steve Scalise, that was years before 2020, the threats on Justice Kavanaugh – so – Gabby Giffords. I mean, there doesn't seem to be an end to this. It's on both sides of the aisle. But, look, people have to just take the heat down here. I mean, this is America. This is one of the most amazing places on the planet earth. We should all wake up and be grateful. We can disagree and have heated arguments of course, but when you cross that line into violence it does your cause no good, it does the system no good, and it just brings everything to a more fragile state.

CHUCK TODD:

Do you not see any connection to former President Donald Trump in all of this?

GOV. CHRIS SUNUNU:

Oh, there's a connection to everybody in all of this. Oh, absolutely. Look, it's not just about former President Trump. It’s about – I mean, people are getting upset about inflation. They're getting upset with, you know, issues that happened on what we would consider a very minor level. But to them it's passionate, it's just the end of days for them, and they're going to go to that N’th degree. And it's just absolutely insane. It is. And again, the answer isn't just, "Well, we're just going to have more security." Of course you're going to have to do that at some level. But the answer, as a society, as a community, it's not a government solution. It's a cultural solution here in America, and we all, all 300 million of us, have to take a very deep responsibility towards that.

CHUCK TODD:

Well, I want to drill down a little bit here because Governor Youngkin, it was sort of surprising how sort of laissez-faire he was about talking about the attack and how he quickly sort of went to politics here. Are you at all concerned we're numb to this escalating pugilistic way of conducting our politics?

GOV. CHRIS SUNUNU:

Absolutely we're becoming numb to it. And that's –that’s even more scary than the actual acts sometimes because it's becoming the norm. The line is moving. "Well, I'm not taking it so far as to threaten kidnapping the governor of Michigan," which we saw which was very scary as a governor, right, "I'm not taking it to that level so it's okay." And that's just a crazy set of reasoning, right? If you have a disagreement, get involved in your local community, get involved, run for office, have the debates, whatever it might be. Keep it civil of course. It can be heated. It can be passionate. But you've got to keep it civil because it's the only way that, as a society, we're going to move forward.

CHUCK TODD:

Well, one of the things that in the FBI and DHS warning of why these threats appear to be a little higher right now than they have before is because of this rise of election denialism. And I bring it up because Don Bolduc, the Republican nominee for Senate, has been an election denialist. Here's what you said about him during the primary season.

[BEGIN TAPE]

GOV. CHRIS SUNUNU:

I don't take him as a serious candidate, and I don't think most people do. Kind of a conspiracy theorist type, type candidate.

[END TAPE]

CHUCK TODD:

And I say that because he did a debate this week where he talked about an election conspiracy. Let me play it for you, Governor.

[BEGIN TAPE]

DON BOLDUC:

We need to make sure that school buses loaded with people at the polls don't come in and vote.

MALE SPEAKER:

Just to be clear, you're claiming that buses full of voters who are not permitted to vote here, you're claiming that that happens in New Hampshire?

DON BOLDUC:

I am claiming that that is what Granite Staters tell me. And I am saying we need to respond to that because –

MALE SPEAKER:

Do you need to --

DON BOLDUC:

– that's what we --

MALE SPEAKER:

– verify that --

DON BOLDUC:

– work–

MALE SPEAKER:

– information before you --

DON BOLDUC:

I think we --

MALE SPEAKER:

– set --

DON BOLDUC:

– need to verify it. That's what I just said. Can you listen to me here for a second? I am saying that this is what Granite Staters are telling me. And I think it's valid.

[END TAPE]

CHUCK TODD:

You're supporting him because you say you're supporting the Republican ticket. You know, Liz Cheney was on the show last week and she thinks supporting election deniers is almost as bad as being an election denier. How do you respond to her?

GOV. CHRIS SUNUNU:

Well, look, I think you should have Chuck Schumer on the show because Chuck Schumer put money behind General Bolduc's campaign in the primary, right? You have Democrats that put money behind his campaign in the primary, and they did so with other conservative candidates around the country. You want to talk about a threat to democracy, I think you should get the Democrats on here that tried to manipulate the process through the Republican primary. Now, Don and I didn't see eye to eye during the primary. That much is obvious. But again, I'm going - I’m going to support the Republican ticket because the issues that folks are voting on are inflation, gas prices, heating oil, which is skyrocketing here in New Hampshire and causing a major concern, electricity rates. These are all driven by really bad policies out of Washington, and folks just want a change. You cannot change Washington if you keep sending the same people back. And so again, I know a lot of folks want to talk about this issue or that issue, and I may disagree vehemently with even folks in my own party on that stuff, but at the end of the day November, the November election, is going to be all about what is affecting low and middle-income families the most, the horrible policies, inflation. And folks just want to send somebody different back to Washington, mix things up, change things a little bit, and actually get some accountability.

CHUCK TODD:

Well, Governor, I’ve actually, each of the Democratic campaign committee heads that have done election – have done these ads supporting election denialists, I have put on this show. I have put them under this questioning. So I go back to you. Why are you supporting an election denialist? And do you think the inflation issue is enough to sort of rationalize support for somebody who thinks school buses of voters are going to show up in New Hampshire?

GOV. CHRIS SUNUNU:

Yeah. Yeah, let me tell you, you're in a bubble, man. I love you, Chuck, but you are in a bubble if you think anybody's talking about what happened in 2020 or talking about Mar-a-Lago and all that. I know the press loves to talk about it. People are talking about what is happening in their pocketbooks every single day --

CHUCK TODD:

Look, I get that --

GOV. CHRIS SUNUNU:

– when they have to --

CHUCK TODD:

– Governor --

GOV. CHRIS SUNUNU:

– buy groceries --

CHUCK TODD:

I get that--

GOV. CHRIS SUNUNU:

– or fill up --

CHUCK TODD:

Should they be prioritizing –

GOV. CHRIS SUNUNU:

– gas or right now -- Well, that's --

CHUCK TODD:

You think this should be prioritized --

GOV. CHRIS SUNUNU:

– that far-outweighs – Yeah --

CHUCK TODD:

– over election denialism?

GOV. CHRIS SUNUNU:

Should they be?

CHUCK TODD:

Okay.

GOV. CHRIS SUNUNU:

How could they – Of course. Oh, my gosh, Chuck, this is hitting people. They're having trouble paying their mortgage. They're having trouble making car payments because of bad policies out of Washington. Should they be? That is, look, the beauty of the American system is every voter has the right and almost the responsibility to be selfish with their vote, to vote in terms of what is best for their --

CHUCK TODD:

Totally agree --

GOV. CHRIS SUNUNU:

– family, to have better choice for schools, better economic opportunity. And that's exactly what's going to happen in a week, which is why Hassan's going to get fired, a whole bunch of these Democrats are going to get fired, because frankly folks that think that we’re worried – the average voter is worried about 2020, the average voter, it's a serious issue of course, but it is not what people are going to be voting on in the next week. And that kind of has baffled me through this whole campaign season, the fact that Democrats keep pushing this stuff and talking about things that aren't really what voters want to hear about or aren't really connecting with the empathetic challenges that the average voter is seeing every day.

CHUCK TODD:

Look, I don't disagree on the economic issue. I guess I go back to this question though: Do you believe that democracy is an existential problem that we have to deal with? Sometimes some things are just bigger --

GOV. CHRIS SUNUNU:

Yeah --

CHUCK TODD:

– than others. And do you feel the current threat to the democracy is an existential threat?

GOV. CHRIS SUNUNU:

Oh, look, there's no doubt there are threats to democracy. There's no doubt that's a serious issue and of course we've got to take it on. But when you're talking about what folks are going to be voting on this November, what the top priority issues are, it's inflation, the economy, getting those things under control. That – those far and away the most important issues. You can take care of those other issues. Doesn't mean that those folks we send to Washington are just going to focus on one or two things. Obviously they have to take a broad spectrum. But at the end of the day folks really are worried about what's happening, especially I'll just talk New England. It's 35 degrees out right now. Folks are filling up their 270-gallon tanks, and it's costing 1,200, 1,300 bucks. Kerosene is limited because there's no incentive to create more natural gas or more fuel for this country. And that should be our priority, keeping people warm this winter.

CHUCK TODD:

Are you at all concerned though that maybe concern over inflation sweeps in a whole bunch of Republicans that define the party as a bunch of election denialists, Kari Lake in Arizona being exhibit A?

GOV. CHRIS SUNUNU:

Well, look, again, when those folks come in if Washington, finally starts doing, after decades of inaction, finally starts doing what they should be doing and saying, "Okay, what are our top priority issues? Let's go after the biggest things, most critical things first, knock those things off," and that – that– there's a whole list there, right? It's everything from inflation, it's immigration reform, it's securing the border, health care reform, all of these things that neither party has really taken on in the past six years like they should've and really putting those first, and it doesn't mean you ignore, you know, what happened on January 6th. You actually have to come to some sort of a conclusion. I can tell you, just as a voter, as a guy in New Hampshire, I can't tell you what the results of the January 6th hearings are yet. I would like to know. I think everybody would like to know. What changes are being made? What else are we finding out that isn't just political but that can help secure those individuals? Because as we elect these folks, to your original point you opened up with, they have to know they can go down there and cast their vote in a secure and safe manner and not be influenced by violence or threats or anything like that. So that is all part of the mix. And the only way you're going to get there is bringing new people to Washington.

CHUCK TODD:

Very quickly, do you think Republicans should tone down their Pelosi attack ads in this last week?

GOV. CHRIS SUNUNU:

Well, I don't think there's any need for that. No, I don't think there's any need for the attack ads. And again, you know, right now all our thoughts and prayers and sympathy have to go out to Nancy Pelosi, her entire family, her husband of course. And again, put all – put all the politics aside. Ignore the election. She's going to get reelected fine. I mean, let's just make sure that she and her family are safe, they're taking the right steps to make sure that not just they're safe but hopefully extend that safety out to the other members of Congress and the Senate.

CHUCK TODD:

All right. Governor Chris Sununu, Republican from New Hampshire. Appreciate you coming on and sharing your perspective with us. We'll be talking to you soon --

GOV. CHRIS SUNUNU:

You bet --

CHUCK TODD:

– sir. Bye --

GOV. CHRIS SUNUNU:

Thank you, brother.

CHUCK TODD:

Up next, does the Pelosi attack change anything in the final days of the midterms? Panel is next.

CHUCK TODD:

Let's bring in the panel. Marianna Sotomayor, congressional reporter for The Washington Post; NBC news senior Capitol Hill correspondent Garrett Haake; Republican strategist Brad Todd; and Kimberly Atkins Stohr, the senior opinion writer for The Boston Globe. Garrett, I want to start with you because Capitol Hill's your beat. It's yours too, Marianna. I should say that both of you share this beat. How – how has the attitude changed among members just in the last 48 hours?

GARRETT HAAKE:

Members are shaken up by this. There's no question. I mean, there was earlier this year an opportunity for members to get access to up to $10,000 to harden their homes, put in alarm systems, things of that nature. There's been some buying into that, but I think there was always, and especially post-January 6th, a feeling that you were never entirely safe in this job. This just brings this home, that you and your families are not entirely safe in this job. This will carry in the minds of members through Election Day and through the new Congress. But, you know, whether there's some kind of new policy change or something that comes out of that I kind of doubt it. No amount of cash from Congress is going to change the overall security picture for members who are kind of on the proverbial front lines of this debate we're all talking about any time soon.

CHUCK TODD:

Look, I want to bring up a quote that we actually heard in December of 2020 from a Republican in Georgia, Gabriel Sterling. Take a listen.

[TAPE BEGINS]

GABRIEL STERLING:

Mr. President, you have not condemned these actions or this language. Senators, you have not condemned this language or these actions. Someone's going to get hurt. Someone's going to get shot. Someone's going to get killed, and it's not right.

[TAPE ENDS]

CHUCK TODD:

Marianna, here's what Susan Collins said on October 1st of this year to The New York Times: "I wouldn't be surprised if a senator or House member were killed. What started with abusive phone calls is now translating into active threats of violence and real violence." This was not in a vacuum.

MARIANNA SOTOMAYOR:

No, this is something that ever since January 6th, and of course beforehand but really since then, members of Congress, especially Democrats, were actively telling leadership, "I need more help," to Garrett's point, "I would like more money to secure my homes, to make sure that my kids are safe." And you have seen members of Congress actually say, "You know what? I'm going to step back.” One of them notably is Congressman Anthony Gonzalez from Ohio. He of course voted to impeach, and that was a reason why he said, "You know what? It's not worth it, I want to continue to run to fight for democracy, but my family's getting attacked. I have young kids. This is something that is very much part of my mine"-- and it's not just outside of the Capitol, it's inside of the Capitol as well. You talk to Republicans, Democrats that say the tenor has changed. And jokingly almost they say, "You know what? I'm not going to be surprised if we come to blows at some point," which is --

CHUCK TODD:

Physical blows --

MARIANNA SOTOMAYOR:

Yes, physical blows --

CHUCK TODD:

Like the 19th century --

MARIANNA SOTOMAYOR:

Yeah, you laugh so you don't cry --

GARRETT HAAKE:

You walk through the --

MARIANNA SOTOMAYOR:

– that reality --

GARRETT HAAKE:

– House chamber, the first thing you see as you approach are the metal detectors that were put in after January 6th and will stay there at least as long as Democrats are in control of Congress. It's a physical symbol or reminder of the threat of violence every day.

CHUCK TODD:

And when it comes to Pelosi, I want to put together – these are ads that are all running right now this month in October. Take a look.

[BEGIN TAPE]

MALE SPEAKER:

Nancy Pelosi has big plans for America, but first she needs allies like liberal Tony Vargas.

FEMALE SPEAKER:

– and Pelosi are breaking our country. And if Republicans stay home and don't vote we're letting them.

MALE SPEAKER:

Pelosi can't make things this bad all on her own. She needs Dan Kildee, Pelosi's right-hand man.

MALE SPEAKER:

Get ready for the mother of all tax bombs. Pelosi and the president have declared war on working Americans.

[END TAPE]

CHUCK TODD:

Kimberly, we have – I do think the frog boil metaphor is probably good here when it comes to the tone of negative ads. I've done this 30 years. The tone was not like this 20 years ago. It has gotten amped up. It’s – it is harsher than ever.

KIMBERLY ATKINS STOHR:

It is. I mean, Marianna's right, this isn't new, but it has been increasingly, over the past several years, getting worse and worse. And I do fear about that normalization about violent rhetoric in campaigns, not just negative rhetoric that we saw there against Nancy Pelosi. Look, we have a toxic brew of polarization, an increase of extremism, conspiracy theories being believed. And then you add on top of that violent rhetoric, it just boils over. And for years we have had Christmas cards of members of Congress holding guns with their families. We are talking about people, you know, "You need gun rights in order to protect yourself, not just hunt and protect yourself but also protect yourself from the government." These are violent messages that are on top of an already very dangerous situation. And although it is – it's true that it is affecting members and public officials on both sides, that rhetoric is coming from one side of the aisle.

CHUCK TODD:

Brad, what do you say?

BRAD TODD:

I don't think it's coming from one side of the aisle. Remember, Chuck Schumer stood on the Capitol steps and said to the Supreme Court, "You stirred up a whirlwind and you will pay the price." Immediately Democratic left-wing protesters flocked to their neighborhoods. And Merrick Garland, the attorney general, has refused to enforce federal law to get them out. Chuck Schumer's refused to say whether those protesters should leave the neighborhoods. This is happening in both edges of American politics. And by the way, the American public's not there. Reuters did a poll in August, said 85% of Americans, roughly the same in both parties, condemned political violence and intimidation. And so I think we have to be very clear where the public is. And I think we have to insist that, you know, the leaders of both parties be very careful about it.

CHUCK TODD:

Oh, I hear you, but it is – you can't look at the entrance of Donald Trump in our political system and the increase and sit here and say there's not a connection.

BRAD TODD:

Well, first of all, you can look at things like Alexandra Pelosi applauded the attack on Rand Paul. None of us should have done that. And we all of course condemn this attack on Alexandra Pelosi's grandfather --

CHUCK TODD:

You're deflecting on Trump though.

BRAD TODD:

No --

CHUCK TODD:

I mean, I do think that those, and I heard it from Governor Sununu, there's this fear of calling the truth the truth, which is Donald Trump is who's the ringleader in all this.

BRAD TODD:

You know, I'm old enough. I worked on Capitol Hill in the '90s. I had friends in Tom DeLay's office when Russell Weston broke into the Capitol. There are people who have serious mental breaks, and they are motivated by a lot of things. Sometimes it's things they see on the internet. James Hodgkinson, who shot Steve Scalise, a Republican, just blocks from where I live, he was a Bernie Sanders supporter. You pointed it out earlier in the show. I mean, you are seeing people who are really mentally disturbed, motivated by things that they see on the internet. Some of it’s because Twitter won't take down threats to Clarence Thomas' life right now. The internet is causing a lot of people to make connections they might not otherwise make. But in the end, we have a mental health crisis. We need to talk about that.

CHUCK TODD:

Do you want to --

KIMBERLY ATKINS STOHR:

It's not just the internet. I think one of the clearest examples we saw on January 6th is when Donald Trump finally, finally told the people at the Capitol to stand down. They did immediately. These are people reacting to messages that they are getting, that they have been getting consistently. And if you look at the political messaging that's coming out, you don't see Democrats threatening violence. You don't see them holding guns. This is the – this is the mash --

BRAD TODD:

– Maxime Waters says “Get in their face. If they're in a restaurant, get in their face. Tell them they're not welcome here.” I mean, you're seeing plenty of this sort of motivation from people on both --

GARRETT HAAKE:

Banging pots and pans in a neighborhood or telling someone they're not welcome in a restaurant is not the same as going into their home and hitting them with a hammer. I mean, we're talk --

BRAD TODD:

Absolutely no one --

GARRETT HAAKE:

Protest is not the same as violence.

BRAD TODD:

Absolutely no one is condoning what happened to Paul Pelosi. No one. That's not happening. You’ve seen – Kevin McCarthy, Steve Scalise, no one. No one on the Democratic side was condoning Steve Scalise being shot by a left-wing protester --

GARRETT HAAKE:

No, of course not. But I think there's a disservice to this debate if you conflate protest and violence. They are not the same thing.

CHUCK TODD:

Marianna, I want to address something Governor Sununu said. He said I was in the bubble asking about – about these questions versus inflation. Look, to me that's the unknown question about this: whether this does have an impact, doesn't. I have to tell you. I saw a lot of Nancy Pelosi attack ads yesterday watching college football, and I was like they looked differently to me. I wonder if they're going to look different to others.

MARIANNA SOTOMAYOR:

Yeah. I mean, it's not going to change. We're not going to automatically see these ads being pulled down at all. But, listen, we will know in a week and a half whether – what is the motivator. And, of course, the economy is a huge motivator for people. But in these swing districts that I have been to, a lot of voters, independents who haven't made up their minds yet, still bring up democracy, still bring up Trump and his behavior and not wanting to vote for Republicans because they know that extremism could continue on Capitol Hill.

CHUCK TODD:

Did you want to add something? Very quick.

BRAD TODD:

Yeah. Well, we also need to know that there are 80 ads in every Senate race where Democrats are targeting Mitch McConnell. Since you're going to mention the ads about Pelosi being --

CHUCK TODD:

I understand.

BRAD TODD:

– targeted on the House side --

CHUCK TODD:

It's pretty lopsided – it’s pretty lopsided for what it’s worth.

BRAD TODD:

Well, in statewide races, every single race though. 100% of the races.

CHUCK TODD:

I hear you. Again, I understand the whataboutism arguments. But--

BRAD TODD:

It's not whataboutism.

CHUCK TODD:

– it is --

BRAD TODD:

No, it's not. We have a --

CHUCK TODD:

Nancy Pelosi is on a pretty other level --

BRAD TODD:

These are partly --

CHUCK TODD:

– when it comes to the –

BRAD TODD:

If you're trying to flip control of the House, obviously the speaker is an issue. Same with the Senate majority leader.

CHUCK TODD:

You got it. All right. When we come back, Democrats are worried that voters under 30 are not motivated and they're not going to turn out in the numbers that they did in 2018. I'll show you why, next.

CHUCK TODD:

We are back. Data Download time. So, if Democrats want to defy the usual pattern of midterms this election, they're going to need some parts of the electorate to exceed turnout expectations. And the group at the top of their wish list to show up in droves? Young voters. Let me show you why. When you look at our most recent poll, there was only one age group that Democrats were leading on, when it came to which party should control Congress: voters under 35. And look at that advantage. It's a 30-point advantage. That's pretty good if young voters show up. And the pattern when it comes to midterm elections is not great when it comes to young voters. As you can see, first of all, young voters in general usually are below the national average of turnout even in presidential. But it hits the 40s. Twice, it's hit 50: once with Barack Obama's first election and of course the most recent one during Donald Trump's attempt at winning reelection. And as you can see in the midterms, it usually goes down in half. The one exception, 2018, had a pretty high youth turnout. And guess what happened? Democrats did pretty well in that midterm election. Well, let's take a look at what the interest in the election has been this year when it comes to young voters. It's been sitting at 42%. The good news for Democrats, that's much better than what young voter interest was in 2014 when Democrats got wiped out in those midterms. But it is not yet at 2018 levels, which is why Democrats look like they're poised to lose the House, not hold it. Now, when you look at the growing interest in this election season, it has grown for voters under 35. Before October, it was 35%. It went up seven points to 42% in our most recent poll. But look at that compared to all voters. It was at 59% pre-October, and the high-interest voters are now hitting 70%. The fact of the matter is: Democrats, they don't need young voters to hit 70, but they definitely need young voters to hit 50 if they have any shot at holding the House. Before we go to break, this week we wrapped up season five of Meet the Press Reports with a deep dive at the #MeToo Movement and its impact in particular on Gen Z. And catch up on the full season. Binge it right now. YouTube, Peacock, MeetThePress.com, wherever you get our programming. We've got episodes on the rise of Christian nationalism. We look at American oligarchs and their impact on elections, America's changing gun culture. Wisconsin is a place we went to look at ground zero for polarization. And, of course, a whole episode focused on securing the vote. When we come back, Elon Musk takes over Twitter, and he promises it's not going to be a “free-for-all hellscape.” So, is he going to allow more misinformation to flow freely in the final days of the midterms? The panel is next.

CHUCK TODD:

Welcome back. I want to talk a little midterm politics. We've got Barack Obama on the trail. But let me start with Elon Musk. He's taken over Twitter. He's now fact-checking, and responding, and acting like somebody who wants to dabble in a lot of Twitter memes, some of which may not be very factual. What does Congress want to do about Elon?

GARRETT HAAKE:

Well, Senator Klobuchar, who you had on, does have a bill on social media companies that we could see some action on in the future. But he is a figure that Democrats kind of loved to hate a little bit beforehand, and I think they're going to love to hate a lot more now. I think he could be a punching bag, at least if the Democrats keep the Senate. Republicans are thrilled about having someone who seems like one of their own. I mean, Elon has said he wants to vote for Ron DeSantis. House Republicans have really embraced him in a major way. But I think this probably drives the wedge between Twitter and real life --

CHUCK TODD:

Yeah.

GARRETT HAAKE:

-- and normal people that much further.

CHUCK TODD:

And I was just going to say: Is this a way where it's going to flip Twitter a little bit where the left runs away from Twitter because of Musk and the right runs toward it?

MARIANNA SOTOMAYOR:

Yeah, we might see something really weird. I mean, we're used to seeing weird things nowadays. But I honestly don't know if there is the appetite to get this done in the next month. There's a lot of things that Congress has to do. Maybe it does because Democrats will realize they still have the majority for a month to try and pass that bill. But it's unlikely. It might be something that the next Congress might actually have to deal with. And who knows what's going to happen then on Twitter by that point?

KIMBERLY ATKINS STOHR:

And in terms of the effect, we really don't know. I mean, Elon Musk says -- the reason that he gave for buying this doesn't make any sense. This is not an open marketplace of ideas. It is a private media company. It is something that -- it doesn't work that way. Also, he has fought with Trump. So this idea that the right is going to suddenly rush there may not pan out at all, particularly if that fight continues. So I think none of us --

CHUCK TODD:

Well, it's a terrible --

KIMBERLY ATKINS STOHR:

-- know what we're in for.

CHUCK TODD:

It's a terrible business. It does seem financially a mistake by Musk.

BRAD TODD:

Well it’s -- one thing we know is 100% of journalists will stay on Twitter. That's the one thing we’ll be (UNINTEL) --

(OVERTALK)

CHUCK TODD:

-- that's okay.

BRAD TODD:

And you know, I think Elon Musk's ownership of it's going to be very interesting. There was an article in The Verge this week that I found interesting of: What's going to happen when China resists Elon Musk in China. Because Tesla does a lot of business in China. Which will he pick? I think there are a lot of foreign policy questions --

CHUCK TODD:

How about --

BRAD TODD:

-- that are going to come up.

CHUCK TODD:

How about the federal government, who's in bed with him on Starlink, in bed with him on SpaceX --

GARRETT HAAKE:

Made him a billionaire.

CHUCK TODD:

--and all of this, and need him for our space program? Who's got more leverage, Garrett?

GARRETT HAAKE:

That's an excellent question. I mean, the SpaceX contracts with the federal government are enormous --

CHUCK TODD:

Huge.

GARRETT HAAKE:

-- I mean, Elon Musk is a space billionaire first and, you know, I guess a media company billionaire second. But we'll see. I mean, he didn't get to be a billionaire by being bad at making financial decisions. Presumably, you've got to give him some benefit of the doubt that he knows what he's doing here. But he's got very strange bedfellows now.

CHUCK TODD:

All right. Let's spend the last minute here on the get-out-the-vote efforts. We're seeing Barack Obama on the trail. Kimberly, what do you make of it? Sometimes you see him, and it's a reminder that he's probably the one Democrat that can fire up the base --

KIMBERLY ATKINDS STOHR:

Yeah.

CHUCK TODD:

-- Not the current elected Democrats.

KIMBERLY ATKINS STOHR:

Yeah. Democrats hope that he's the closer. I mean, I talked to two people yesterday just in regular conversations like, you know, "Barack Obama's so good at this." And I think that's what they're counting on. Especially for that youth vote. You know, at The Emancipator we talked about the other swing vote, which is young people who are choosing either vote Democratic or not vote at all. And that could be the game changer in the midterms.

CHUCK TODD:

Brad, what's interesting about Donald Trump is it looks like he listened to consultants. He's going to northwest Iowa. He's going to Republican areas in Ohio; Latrobe, Pennsylvania. He helps in those unique ways. Doesn't he?

BRAD TODD:

I think there's a chance he could stimulate turnout, but Republicans don't have a turnout problem. Republican enthusiasm is really high. And I think on the youth vote question for Democrats, you know, it’s -- I see a lot of polling. It's the only age group Democrats are carrying on the generic ballot.

CHUCK TODD:

That's what we showed in our --

BRAD TODD:

But that's not an --

CHUCK TODD:

-- generic ballot.

BRAD TODD:

-- age problem. That's a platform problem. Democrats have to calibrate their platform to win over voters.

CHUCK TODD:

All right, guys. It’s going to be quite a week and quite a final nine days. That's all we have for today. Thanks for watching. I am contractually obligated not to take a position on Bills versus Packers. I won't do that today. I just want a good game. We're going to be back next week because if it's Sunday, it's Meet the Press.