CHUCK TODD:
This Sunday, future of the party.
FMR. PRES. DONALD TRUMP:
If I win and somebody wants to run against me, I call my attorney general. I say, “Listen, indict him.”
CHUCK TODD:
The Republican party is at a crossroads.
FMR. VICE PRES. MIKE PENCE: Will we be the party of conservatism or will we follow the siren song of populism, unmoored to conservative principles?
CHUCK TODD:
Will the GOP back Donald Trump’s return to power or find a new path forward? I’ll talk to Republican Sen. Bill Cassidy of Louisiana, one of the seven Republicans who voted to convict Donald Trump. Plus, backing Biden. My wide-ranging interview with California’s Democratic Governor Gavin Newsom. Why do you think only 24% of Americans want to see Biden run again?
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM:
To me, the polls mean nothing until we get out there and we make our case.
CHUCK TODD:
His thoughts on his party, the 2024 election and his own presidential ambitions.
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM:
I think we need to move past this notion that he’s not going to run. President Biden is going to run. Time to move on. Let’s go.
CHUCK TODD:
And gerontocracy. As questions grow about their fitness for office, America’s aging leaders refuse to exit the stage.
SEN. MITCH McCONNELL:
I am going to finish my term as leader and I’m going to finish my Senate term.
REP. NANCY PELOSI :
I have made my decision in favor of winning.
CHUCK TODD:
Why are Washington’s octogenarians ignoring the call from voters who believe they are too old to serve? Joining me for insight and analysis are NBC News senior political editor Mark Murray, Amy Walter, editor-in-chief of The Cook Political Report, Democratic pollster Cornell Belcher and Danielle Pletka of the American Enterprise Institute. Welcome to Sunday. It’s Meet the Press.
ANNOUNCER:
From NBC News in Washington, the longest-running show in television history, this is Meet the Press with Chuck Todd.
CHUCK TODD:
Good Sunday morning. As you may have heard, after nine years and more than 430 broadcasts, today is my final Sunday in the moderator chair. To say that this has been the honor and privilege of my lifetime is an understatement. This is simply the pinnacle of political journalism and something my younger self never imagined. No matter how much of a grind the current political climate is, wearing me down on any given day, I still always have a – have had a “pinch me, I can’t believe it” feeling every time I hear my name introduced as the moderator of the longest-running show in the history of television. In fact I used to joke, my goal is not to be the last moderator of the longest running show in American history. And I’ve achieved that goal and then some. I look forward to passing the baton in about 57 minutes. But in the meantime, we’ve put together a terrific program with a focus – or at least we are going to try to – on the future of both political parties. And the guests we have today - California Governor Gavin Newsom and Senator Bill Cassidy - are two I specifically wanted for my last show because I think these two elected officials have a healthy respect for you, the viewers and the voters. They aren’t afraid of answering any question, on any platform, on any network, by any person. They accept the premise of a healthy democracy, which is that elected officials take a stand and then come on shows where they get questioned for their rationales and defend it. I’m a skeptic by nature which also makes me inquisitive by nature. And it’s in that spirit that I think Meet the Press is the standard-bearer when it comes to educating viewers and asking the relevant questions that you want asked. So, as I prepare to sign off, both parties find themselves at a crossroads. Many leaders in both parties desperately want to look to the future, but as you know both parties are stuck in the present and the voters are exhausted by it. For the Republicans, the issue is Trump and Trumpism. Does it belong in the past? Well, at an event Friday night in South Dakota, where he was endorsed by Governor Kristi Noem, Trump made it clear he does not intend to leave it there.
[START TAPE]
FMR. PRES. DONALD TRUMP:
If I win, and somebody wants to run against me, I call my attorney general. I say, “Listen, indict him.” “Well, he hasn't done anything wrong that we know.” “I don't know. Indict him on income tax evasion, you'll figure it out.” The Republicans in the Senate and the Republicans in the House cannot let this go on.
[END TAPE]
CHUCK TODD:
For the Democrats, the issue of course is Biden’s age. In a CNN poll this week nearly 7 in 10 Democrats said the party should nominate quote "a different candidate" than Joe Biden and it was the biggest concern among 49% of all Democrats. The biggest concern was Biden's age. Overall, just 28% of Americans say Biden inspires confidence. That’s down 24 points from two years ago when he was just 4 months into his presidency. This week, the Biden campaign released an ad highlighting his surprise visit to Ukraine in February, a not-so-subtle argument that he is physically up to the job.
[START TAPE]
VOICE OVER:
A nearly 40 hour journey in and out of Ukraine. President Biden left Washington. DC at 4am on Sunday. He landed in Eastern Poland and then took a nine and a half hour train to Kiev. In the middle of a warzone, Joe Biden showed the world what America is made of. That’s the quiet strength of a true leader.
[END TAPE]
CHUCK TODD:
Well, joining me now is Republican Senator Bill Cassidy of Louisiana. Senator Cassidy, welcome back to Meet the Press.
SEN. BILL CASSIDY:
Yeah, Chuck, thank you, and thank you for the honor of being on your last show.
CHUCK TODD:
Well, I appreciate that. I'm going to start, actually, with some of the news of the week, even on Friday, with the announcement by the former speaker of the House that she's going to seek reelection and she's in her '80s. I want to start with a quote you gave a couple years ago on this issue to Axios. Here's the exchange.
[START TAPE]
MIKE ALLEN:
The speaker of the House is 81. Wisdom comes with age, but the science is also clear that we aren't who we were. That we do lose things with age. As a medical professional, is that something we should be thinking about?
SEN. BILL CASSIDY:
Of course. At some point, and statistically, it's in the '80s, you begin a more rapid decline. It's usually noticeable. So, anybody in a position of responsibility who may potentially be on that slope, that is of concern. I'm saying this as a doctor.
[END TAPE]
CHUCK TODD:
I also want to clarify: You made it clear you were not judging any specific person there. You were making a generalization. What's interesting there: This is before we were debating Mitch McConnell, before we were debating Joe Biden, and all of this. Does that still hold for you?
SEN. BILL CASSIDY:
Absolutely. By the way, I think Mitch McConnell's handled it perfectly. His doctor is releasing not just the tests but the results of the tests. And with that, there is a transparency that allows people to move beyond a number – how old is the person – into, "What is actually the kind of science,” if you will, “the medical science, of how to evaluate?" And I think that should be the standard that folks are held to, and I think he's responded.
CHUCK TODD:
You feel like you've got enough information from Senator McConnell? You do? I mean, you feel like you're getting an honest assessment here?
SEN. BILL CASSIDY:
I do.
CHUCK TODD:
Okay.
SEN. BILL CASSIDY:
The doctor is not lying. He's saying, "These are the tests that we've done, and this is the results we have." By the way, I also have the advantage of seeing not just the clip of him during 20 seconds --
CHUCK TODD:
Right.
SEN. BILL CASSIDY:
– but him before and him after, and there, he's quite clearly capable.
CHUCK TODD:
What do you make of Senator Rand Paul's questioning? He's not questioning McConnell, but he's questioning the doctor's diagnosis.
SEN. BILL CASSIDY:
Well, you know, I always say that I'm a gastroenterologist, he's an ophthalmologist. We're not the internist who's doing the physical exam, guiding. And so, you have to accept the limitations of training.
CHUCK TODD:
What do you think – how do you think we should address this? The voters clearly have said one thing. And you have this -- I mean, look, I get it. It's always hard to let go at the very end. Trust me. I'm aware of this myself. But what do you think is the driver here?
SEN. BILL CASSIDY:
Shouldn't there be transparency? Shouldn't President Biden, for example, release a full kind of neurologic evaluation of his cognitive ability and whomever else? You pick the person that you've had --
CHUCK TODD:
You want Mitch McConnell to do this. You want Joe Biden to do this. You want all of them to do this.
SEN. BILL CASSIDY:
Do what Mitch just did. There was total transparency. And so, if somebody running for that kind of high office --
CHUCK TODD:
I don't know if it's been full transparency, in fairness. It's a letter from a doc -- I mean, we don't know. We just know what this one doctor said.
SEN. BILL CASSIDY:
No, he said -- well, at some point, you have to say, "Okay, wait a second. He said he had an EEG, an MRI, a this, a that, a that, a this, and they're all normal." That's pretty good. Now, you may decide that the doctor is lying. But at some point, you have to have faith in somebody, and I think somebody who's not out of politics, being honest, giving you the results of the tests is a good start.
CHUCK TODD:
It’s one thing that voters should demand this. Is it something that should be in the Constitution?
SEN. BILL CASSIDY:
Well, I don't know about the Constitution, but I think it should be certainly a House rule.
CHUCK TODD:
Well, we have House rules that get violated all the time, though, you know --
SEN. BILL CASSIDY:
Yeah, I agree with that.
CHUCK TODD:
Yeah.
SEN. BILL CASSIDY:
I would be okay with that. I think if you want to be the president of the United States, or a senator, or a House member, then there is a responsibility over and above that of just offering yourself. It has to be that you can show that you have clarity. Now, we could define what that means.
CHUCK TODD:
Wouldn't it be nice to say, "Show us your tax returns and show us your medical – your medical records?" Is that the way you think it would be, almost standardize both of those things?
SEN. BILL CASSIDY:
I actually think that that would be reasonable, too.
CHUCK TODD:
Yeah.
SEN. BILL CASSIDY:
Because if the voter's going to make a decision, we need to give her as much information as we possibly can.
CHUCK TODD:
All right, let's talk about the other craziness that this month may bring us. It seems as if Speaker McCarthy is essentially trying to use – dangle impeachment to stop a shutdown. I feel like you guys in the Senate Republicans are going, "What are you guys thinking?" What is your reaction to this strategy?
SEN. BILL CASSIDY:
You know, you're guessing what's in his mind. I will not – I will not go there.
CHUCK TODD:
Fair enough.
SEN. BILL CASSIDY:
He's got a difficult role to play, and I accept that, too. Now, if you treat each of those separately, would there be a reasonable thing that maybe Joe Biden was involved or at least knew of Hunter trading upon the family name for personal enrichment? That is something that the American people should know about.
CHUCK TODD:
Does that rise to an impeachment inquiry, or is that simply something that the Oversight Committee ought to be looking into?
SEN. BILL CASSIDY:
I'm not an attorney, and I'm not going to go there. In fact – and I don't know the results of Congressman Comer's -- which I think he's doing the service to the country, a good service --
CHUCK TODD:
Okay.
SEN. BILL CASSIDY:
I have not seen the documents that he wants, and I don't think he's seen them yet. So, if you treat that separately, is there something where Hunter was trading upon his father's name, and his father's enabling? That is something to know. On the other hand, is it – do we need to pass the funding bill? Absolutely. So, hopefully they two can be considered separately. I don't know what Kevin's strategy is.
CHUCK TODD:
To go back on the impeachment thing, what you just described is -- you know, Michael Kinsley once said, "In Washington, it's not what's illegal, it's what's legal that is sometimes a crime." This stuff's perfectly legal.
SEN. BILL CASSIDY:
Well, I'm told that there is something of foreign agent rule, where somebody who is a – registered as a foreign agent is not being totally transparent in terms of how they're using this relationship. I'm also told it's difficult to enforce. Again, I'm not an attorney. But there's something about both the spirit and the letter of the law that I think the American people should know.
CHUCK TODD:
Do you think we should have some sort of ethics code for relatives? I mean, we think about – you know, every time I hear "Hunter Biden," other people say, "What about Jared Kushner?" And I want to say, "Yes."
SEN. BILL CASSIDY:
I agree with that. On the other hand, you can't deny somebody a right to earn a living. To steal a phrase from another, they're not just a potted plant. My wife, for example, doesn't make any money at what she's doing, but she's got a career independently of me. Do we want to kind of snuff that out? And she's an incredibly capable person.
CHUCK TODD:
It is something that many professional couples run into, particularly in this town. Let's talk about the future of the party. You had been adamant for the last two years. When you were asked the Trump question, you were like, "He's not going to be the nominee. He's not going to be the nominee." You feel that comfortable declaring that now?
SEN. BILL CASSIDY:
Well, I'll say that I've not been quite so adamant recently.
CHUCK TODD:
Okay.
SEN. BILL CASSIDY:
So, he might be the nominee, and I think Mike Pence is trying to draw the contrast. Is there a populist future to our country, to our party, to the Republican Party, or is there a non-populist? Populism has a role, but I think now, presidents -- the populism has come to the point where if you look at a poll of the American people, most don't like it.
CHUCK TODD:
You come from a state where populism lead to corruption frequently.
SEN. BILL CASSIDY:
That's true.
CHUCK TODD:
In its history, when I think of Huey Long, Edwin Edwards. You can go through the line. Populism --
SEN. BILL CASSIDY:
But --
CHUCK TODD:
– goes to corruption fast.
SEN. BILL CASSIDY:
But think about the purpose of populism. When the elites come up with a policy set which is separate and different from that which the people actually feel meets their needs, that has to be addressed. And so, there is a role for that sensitivity to what the people want. I am totally in favor of that. What I don't like is when you tell people just what they want to hear even if it's not true. You know I've been very focused on Social Security.
CHUCK TODD:
I know you have.
SEN. BILL CASSIDY:
We've got two candidates who are telling the American people that which they wish to hear, not that which is true. Because of that, Social Security, if it goes insolvent, as it's predicted to, will result in a 24% cut in benefits for those receiving. So, for a candidate to tell the American people there's no problem, that's populism gone awry.
CHUCK TODD:
In February of 2021, you decided that Donald Trump was unfit to ever hold federal office again. Your vote to convict said that, as much. You have answered this question very carefully in the past, which you say you plan to support a Republican. If he is the nominee, can you vote for him? I know where you are on Biden. Can you vote for Trump?
SEN. BILL CASSIDY:
You know, we're keeping our streak alive. Every time we've met, you've asked me about this.
CHUCK TODD:
I understand that. Well, it’s – I don't know. Why isn't it an easy answer?
SEN. BILL CASSIDY:
Well, because I'm going to vote for a Republican. Yes, I am.
CHUCK TODD:
But you might have to write it in?
SEN. BILL CASSIDY:
Might have to write it in.
CHUCK TODD:
What about this No Labels? You've been showing up at their events. You were even said that – you know, people have pointed out you were once a Democrat. So, in some ways, you could perhaps be somebody they would look to the bridge the divide. Is that something that would appeal to you?
SEN. BILL CASSIDY:
Depending upon who the candidates were.
CHUCK TODD:
If we're looking at Biden and Trump.
SEN. BILL CASSIDY:
Yeah.
CHUCK TODD:
And is that suddenly appealing?
SEN. BILL CASSIDY:
If they came and spoke to me, I would certainly speak to them back.
CHUCK TODD:
Sounds like -- are you already speaking with them?
SEN. BILL CASSIDY:
I am not.
CHUCK TODD:
You're not? But it is something you'd be open to?
SEN. BILL CASSIDY:
Yes, put it this way: 70% of the American people want something different. Plausibly, we could have a setting in which someone has been convicted and someone else shows signs of mental decline so significant, 70% of the American people are already thinking that he's too old. He is not being transparent like some are in terms of revealing the tests. There is an actual need to know what's going on, and we're not being told. With this, should there be another option for the American people? And I think, plausibly, there should be.
CHUCK TODD:
Senator Bill Cassidy, you've lived up to exactly how I billed it, which is you're never afraid to answer a question, even if you don't like it. Thanks for coming on --
SEN. BILL CASSIDY:
Thanks, Chuck.
CHUCK TODD:
– and sharing your perspective. Appreciate it. When we come back, California governor Gavin Newsom. He rules out his own presidential run in 2024, and he offers his vision for how Biden can win.
[START TAPE]
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM:
I'm serious when I say this. A little less time on his age, you know, whether or not he's going to run. A little more time on the damn record.
[END TAPE]
CHUCK TODD:
Welcome back. As Democrats worry about the political strength of President Biden speculation has been bubbling up that another Democrat should run instead. Well, I traveled to Sacramento this week to talk to one of those Democrats-in-waiting: the California Governor Gavin Newsom. He is clearly positioning himself to run for president, it just may be in 2028 rather than in 2024. I began by asking Governor Newsom, at the California governor mansion by the way, his thoughts about Biden and the future of the Democratic party. Governor, thanks for doing this.
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM:
Good to be back. Good to be with you.
CHUCK TODD:
Appreciate it. Let me start, it was about a year ago where right after the Dobbs decision you very publicly – and I'll quote, you’re like – "Where's my party? Where's the Democratic Party?" We're a year later. Do you have that same sort of lack of focus and leadership, do you sense it nationally?
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM:
No, the opposite. I think we're on message, we're getting back on the offense, we're on our feet. I think demonstrably that proved itself. I'm not just asserting it on the basis of what happened in the midterms. We out-performed I think our own quiet expectations, certainly, punditry that was out there at the time.
CHUCK TODD:
Sure.
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM:
No, I think the party is in a much better place than it was back then. But I, you know, I stand by what I said a year and a half ago. Out of stress and frustration I expressed not only that point of view, I tried to do something about it through the iteration of doing ads in other states –
CHUCK TODD:
Right.
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM:
– and making a case.
CHUCK TODD:
Do you think the – do you think things are better, in your opinion, because the party did something better? Or simply the public is just pushing back on this abortion decision and that is motivating voters?
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM:
I think the abortion decision has obviously been galvanizing in that respect. And it's demonstrably so. I mean, you saw it with Ohio and what just happened. You're seeing it play out in large and small venues, including the Wisconsin Supreme Court race, et cetera. So look, it's obviously played an outsize role. But I think we're getting our feet under us. I think we're focused on democracy and freedom, taking back the mantra of freedom, not submitting to the other side that they own patriotism. The president's developing his message and strategy. And we –
CHUCK TODD:
Is it –
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM:
– have an opportunity in the next few months.
CHUCK TODD:
Do you feel like you see it?
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM:
Absolutely –
CHUCK TODD:
I mean, do you feel like you know what the second term agenda is?
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM:
I don't know about the second term agenda, because we're still regaling an extraordinary success of the last few years, of which we now get to apply the principles and advance a lot of what has been asserted. Meaning, make real the commitments we've made through these landmark legislative packages. But beyond that, I think the fundamental messaging has improved. The organized framework that the ads that they’ve put out, the last five ads, I think have been spot-on. And now we have to go out and campaign. And I think you're going to see that over the next few months.
CHUCK TODD:
Why do you think only 24% of Americans want to see Biden run again?
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM:
I don’t – to me, the polls mean nothing until we get out there and we make our case. And we have to make our case. We have to focus on the issues, and then obviously framework of contrasts.
CHUCK TODD:
You're well aware of how perception can become reality.
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM:
Perception –
CHUCK TODD:
Why do you think –
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM:
– can be.
CHUCK TODD:
– this perception is there?
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM:
I'll leave it to more objective minds. I don't have that point of view. I'm very inspired by the master class of the last two and a half years. And I mean it. I mean, master class in terms of delivering results. And the results are demonstrable. The question you're asking is the challenging one –
CHUCK TODD:
Right.
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM:
– is how do we mind the gap between performance, the substance and the result and that perception before it becomes reality? Clearly it's reflected situationally in these polls. But that's the opportunity, the – not the burden, the opportunity of being able to run on this record, the Biden record, and to make the case to the American people in the next 18 months.
CHUCK TODD:
Do you think this – then do you think this is all just due to age? People just look at the age issue and just think he's not vibrant enough?
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM:
That wasn't – that wasn’t even on my mind –
CHUCK TODD:
I'm not saying it was on your mind.
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM:
– in the context of the question.
CHUCK TODD:
I'm talking about the voters.
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM:
I don’t know. I’ll leave that – I don't know what it is. All I know is we have the opportunity to sell remarkable accomplishments, and we get an opportunity to do that in a way that, frankly, we haven't in the past. And we need surround sound. We need to organize bottom-up, not just top-down. We can't just rely on the president to make that case alone. The party, the Democratic Party – it goes back to your original question. The party itself I think needs to be more muscular in terms of how we approach that – our role and responsibility in promoting that record.
CHUCK TODD:
Do you think another four years of Donald Trump will break us?
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM:
I don’t – I hope we don't have to experience that. But I worry about democracy. I worry about the fetishness for autocracy that we're seeing not just from Trump, but around the world, and notably across this country. I've made the point about DeSantis that I think he's functionally authoritarian. I'm worried more, in many respects, about Trumpism, which transcends well beyond his term and time and tenure.
CHUCK TODD:
Do you think Trump or DeSantis would be a greater threat to democracy?
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM:
I'll leave that to more objective minds. I'm concerned about democracy fundamentally in this country.
CHUCK TODD:
I understand you say for more objective minds. What’s in your mind?
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM:
I think the vengeance –
CHUCK TODD:
Tell me what's in your mind?
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM:
I think the vengeance in Donald Trump's heart right now is more of a threat.
CHUCK TODD:
So another four years could –
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM:
Yeah.
CHUCK TODD:
– it's not something –
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM:
I'm not going to wallow in it. I'm going to work hard to get President Biden re-elected, and work hard to make the case for what he's done for this country.
CHUCK TODD:
Filing deadlines haven't passed. President Biden doesn't run, why shouldn't we consider you a likely candidate?
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM:
Well, I think the vice president is naturally the one lined up. And the filing deadlines are quickly coming to pass. And I think we need to move past this notion that he's not going to run. President Biden is going to run, and looking forward to getting him re-elected. I think there's been so much wallowing in the last few months and handwringing in this respect. But we're gearing up for the campaign. We're looking forward to it.
CHUCK TODD:
I understand – you know, but you hear these calls privately. What do you tell these donors who are wallowing in this?
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM:
Time to move on. Let's go. I'm going to be at the DNC next week in Chicago, was down with the DCC two weeks ago, down in San Diego. Let's go. Let’s make the case, let’s stop – I mean, let's make the case –
CHUCK TODD:
What you're saying is you're not plotting anything?
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM:
– of what the Biden administration –
CHUCK TODD:
There's no –
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM:
No.
CHUCK TODD:
– plan B for you?
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM:
Just the – no, and perhaps there's never been more consistent words that have come out of my mouth than that.
CHUCK TODD:
I understand that. But I have – something has hit me for a while with you in particular.
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM:
Yeah.
CHUCK TODD:
Your political hero is Bobby Kennedy.
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM:
Yeah, yeah.
CHUCK TODD:
Bobby would – What would Bobby do? Bobby ran. Bobby ran.
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM:
Yeah.
CHUCK TODD:
He did it. Now, you could argue that he waited for somebody else to prove LBJ was vulnerable before jumping in. We can debate the particulars of when. If you're going to go bold, sometimes you go when everybody tells you not to go.
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM:
Yeah, I’m – I haven't plotted this out.
CHUCK TODD:
I know that you haven't –
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM:
I'm not this Machiavellian. I’ve, I’ve – that said, I'm all in with President Biden. I've proven that over, and over, and over again in private –
CHUCK TODD:
I understand.
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM:
– and increasingly in public. I want to continue to make that case. And – and again, I don't want to just go through talking points. But I'm serious when I say this: a little less time on his age and whether or not he's going to run, a little more time on the damn record. Wonder why there's a gap between performance and perception? I think it's pretty obvious. You're nothing but a mirror of your consistent thoughts.
CHUCK TODD:
Yeah.
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM:
Whatever you focus on, you find more of. And right now the Democratic Party, the press and others are so focused situationally on his age, "Should he or should he not run," and not on his record. And so our job is to get out of that muck and to get back on our feet, making the case.
CHUCK TODD:
And am I supposed to interpret that comment about the vice president that if for some reason the president chose not to run at this point –
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM:
Well it’s the natural –
CHUCK TODD:
– everybody rallies around her?
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM:
It's the Biden-Harris administration. Maybe I'm a little old-fashioned –
CHUCK TODD:
And you respect that?
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM:
Maybe I'm a little old-fashioned
CHUCK TODD:
– you respect that.
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM:
– about, you know, presidents and vice presidents. I was a lieutenant governor, so I'm a little subjective on the subject matter.
CHUCK TODD:
The senior senator here has – her daughter apparently has power of attorney. She as an elected official has power of attorney over 40 million people's representation in Washington D.C. Why should she still be serving as a senator?
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM:
Well, I leave it to her. I told you, I'm – I’m the most subjective human being in the world on this topic. I have no objectivity whatsoever. I've known Dianne Feinstein since I was a kid. I interned with her in college. I still have a signed book from my days when she was mayor. So –
CHUCK TODD:
She's more like family to you?
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM:
Yes. So I'm the last person to ask –
CHUCK TODD:
Is it sad to watch?
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM:
Yeah.
CHUCK TODD:
Look, this is somebody whose obituary – whose legacy is – I fear people are going to forget because of what we're watching toward the end.
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM:
Yes. But I'll tell you, I mean, it wasn't that long ago where she would call me up, read me the riot act on issues related to forest management, vegetation management, what we're doing in the central valley on drought and water issues. Again, that wasn't the black-and-white movie days. That was not too long ago. Her staff is still extraordinarily active and we wish her only the best. Her term expires, she's not running for re-election. So this time next year we'll be in a very different place –
CHUCK TODD:
Is it fair – do you feel as if the staff is fulfilling, can do the duties?
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM:
Yes. I don't think it, I know it. We're working extraordinarily closely together –
CHUCK TODD:
You don't feel as if the state's losing out by not having –
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM:
No.
CHUCK TODD:
– a more active voice –
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM:
No.
CHUCK TODD:
– in the Senate?
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM
Maybe missing town halls or more – you know, Senator Padilla was just in the office a few days ago. We were comparing and contrasting issues and advocacy. And we're aligned with – with Feinstein and her office on –
CHUCK TODD:
Sounds like you –
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM:
– all of these issues.
CHUCK TODD:
– hope you don't have to make another appointment, do you?
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM:
No, I don't want to make another appointment, and I don't think the people of California want me to make another appointment. I’ve made plenty of appointments.
CHUCK TODD:
Because you’d end up appointing both seats.
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM:
Yes. I don’t think that’s – and you know, that said, it's my job, it's my responsibility. If we have to do it, we'll do it.
CHUCK TODD:
Are you going to abide by your pledge?
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM:
Yes. Interim appointment. I don't want to get involved in the primary.
CHUCK TODD:
So no – you would not appoint anybody –
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM:
I wouldn’t run again.
CHUCK TODD:
– on that has filed for this race?
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM:
It would be completely unfair to the Democrats that have worked their tail off. That primary is just a matter of months away. I don't want to tip the balance of that.
CHUCK TODD:
But you're going to abide by – it would be essentially a caretaker –an African American woman?
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM:
We hope we never have to make this decision, but I abide by what I've said very publicly on a consistent basis. Yes.
CHUCK TODD:
Your relationship with Donald Trump. You had one because of the unusual relationship between his son and your ex-wife. Is that still a viable communications link –
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM:
Well –
CHUCK TODD:
– or not?
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM:
No, I think it was less that and more just the interpersonal relationship that came out of the time we spent together at “Paradise,” as he referred to it.
CHUCK TODD:
The fire –
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM:
Or the “Pleasure” –
CHUCK TODD:
Yes.
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM:
I think he referred to it, during the fire. I find it in stark contrast that DeSantis was completely AWOL from spending any time with Joe Biden, which just to me is political malpractice. But the Democratic governor from the state of California can go out there to Paradise and be with the president of the United State –
CHUCK TODD:
Did you have people telling you not to appear with him?
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM:
Yes. But that was wrong. We have to talk about living together and advancing together. We have a responsibility to one another to be mature –
CHUCK TODD:
So Trump gets elected again –
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM:
– to rise above politics.
CHUCK TODD:
– you're going to try to work with him?
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM:
By definition. We worked very closely together during Covid for the –
CHUCK TODD:
Even as you –
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM:
– betterment of the people of the state of California –
CHUCK TODD:
Even when you're not sure whether our country can handle another four years?
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM:
Yes. But at the end of the day, these are the cards that are dealt. And I want to do the best for the people that I represent, 40 million Americans that happen to live in California. Many support him. I'm not going to oppose someone just to oppose them. I don't come into a relationship with closed fists, but an open hand. I call balls and strikes, and few people were more aggressive at calling balls and strikes against Donald Trump. I called California the most un-Trump state in America, and I hold to that. Same time, we work together in terms of emergency preparedness and response, in terms of recovery, on issues related to Covid where Trump himself led a lot of the decisions, his administration that you wisely and appropriately brought up. We took guidance from the federal government as it relates to that. But at the end of the day, I don't like the partisanship. And I thought it was demonstrably displayed by what I thought was a very weak exercise by – by Governor DeSantis in Florida recently.
CHUCK TODD:
Let me close with this, your relationship with the vice president.
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM:
Yeah.
CHUCK TODD:
You guys have been in – you just talked about your relationship with Dianne Feinstein.
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM:
Yeah.
CHUCK TODD:
So I assume San Francisco politician – politics, it's a close family.
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM:
Yeah.
CHUCK TODD:
Describe your relationship with her.
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM:
We knew each other before we were both in politics. The day I got sworn in as mayor, walked across the street she got sworn in as district attorney. Extraordinarily close working relationship, including her time in the Senate –
CHUCK TODD:
You can't imagine –
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM:
– my time up here.
CHUCK TODD:
– ever having to run against each other?
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM:
Of course not. By definition. Won't happen. But we’ve – I've said that 1,000 times. We privately continue to maintain a very good relationship, interpersonal. Just, "How are you doing? Checking in.” It's been a challenging few years with Covid. And we've had the opportunity to sit down, have lunch together in the White House, spend time talking about important things –
CHUCK TODD:
So nobody is upset?
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM:
– and trivial things.
CHUCK TODD:
She's not upset that you're going to debate Ron DeSantis?
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM:
Maybe. Apparently someone in her office is, because I read some off-the-record quotes. I wish I knew who that was. But I don't hear it from her, and I'm certainly not hearing it from the White House itself.
CHUCK TODD:
You going to – Is this debate happening?
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM:
I hope. We'll see. To be determined. Figuring out the time and date. There was a venue issue. They wanted thousands of people and make it a performance. I wasn't interested in that. We were pretty clear on that. And so I think we're getting closer –
CHUCK TODD:
So, Sean Hannity still moderates?
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM:
Yeah.
CHUCK TODD:
You're still okay with that?
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM:
Well, I mean, it's two against one.
CHUCK TODD:
You're giving away –
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM:
Bring it on.
CHUCK TODD:
There is a lot more to this interview. Governor Newsom and I also talked about selling San Francisco to a national audience, the homelessness crisis, climate change and his relationship with Robert F. Kennedy Jr., it was once quite close, and what he's learned about politics from reading biographies of former California governor Ronald Reagan. You can see our full interview at meetthepress.com. When we come back, President Biden is facing more than just concerns about his age from voters. What is the Democrats' plan to address them? The panel is next.
CHUCK TODD:
Welcome back. Panel is here. Some of my favorite panelists: Amy Walter, the editor-in-chief of the Cook Political Report, my partner for so long here, at First Read and then some, NBC News Senior Political Editor Mark Murray, Democratic pollster Cornell Belcher, who's given me my favorite gift in my closet, which are my Jackie Robinson cufflinks and Danielle Pletka, senior fellow at the American Enterprise Institute. Our daughters went to preschool together, and that's how we've gotten to know each other. So it's true. This is a reason the four of you are here together. All right, let's talk the – this age elephant in the room. We've put up these – the CNN poll, the head-to-head matchups here. We've got ones where Biden's trailing among all the non-frontrunners. He trails Pence and Scott and Christie and Haley by the most. Now, against the more likely nominees, Biden actually performs better here. He's tied with DeSantis. He's actually down a point from Biden, and up a point on Ramaswamyi. Cornell, you're the Democrat here. You've got to defend this. This looks bad. Why shouldn't Democrats be worried?
CORNELL BELCHER:
I've been here before, Chuck. As someone who worked for Obama, I think if you go back to August of 2011, headlines had Obama not only tied with a guy by the name of Rick Perry and Ron – Ron Paul, you remember those? But he was actually trailing the guy by the name of Mitt Romney by – by – by several points. I think this is – the polling right now – don't pay a lot of attention to polling right now. I was actually I think – I was more – I think I’d be more worried about Mitt Romney than – than Trump. Why is that? Because Mitt Romney had a higher ceiling than Donald Trump. We've seen how Donald Trump performs in – in two elections now. I think right now, I would argue that Trump is at a ceiling and President Biden is – is – is close to his floor. But he has a good story to tell. He has a story to tell about the economy. And he has a story to tell about legislation. Popular legislation, by the way, that we, on the Obama campaign, didn't have this kind of popular legislation to talk about.
AMY WALTER:
Well, and I don't want to dismiss polling completely. Believe me, I’m not – I'm not throwing it out completely. It is too early. But let's just say this: It is really hard to know.
CHUCK TODD:
It's getting later.
AMY WALTER:
It's getting harder and harder to use the metrics we once used as we were all coming of age to decide whether or not a candidate is vulnerable, or whether a candidate's going to be able to win. Donald Trump never hit 50% job approval rating as president of the United States. He came within 42,000 votes of winning the Electoral College. In the last midterm, 40-year-high inflation, and a president who's deeply under water. And Democrats came within 6,000 votes of holding the House. So what I see is sort of what Cornell sees, too. We have a tied race. And this is going to be a tied race no matter –
CHUCK TODD:
Nothing touches it –
AMY WALTER:
– who the nominee is. And it's going to be four states and a handful of votes.
CHUCK TODD:
Yet, go to what Bill Cassidy said, Mark. 70% of the country doesn't want this, and this is what they're going to get. We know the expression, "Politics abhors a vacuum." Somebody – something or someone is going to try to fill the vacuum.
MARK MURRAY:
Yeah. And so we end up trying to have that frame of, "Well, this is going to play out exactly like 2020 if you have a Joe Biden versus Donald Trump matchup." People who said, "You know what? I voted in 2016 and 2020. I'm not going to vote at all. Or I'm going to vote a third party." And to me, that is the really big wild card in this race. But also, two things about Joe Biden and the worries of Democrats can be true. 1) Yes, we have a long ways to go. More than a year. Yes, Joe Biden has cleared the Democratic field. People like Gavin Newsom, all the other people behind. And the Democratic Party is more unified than it was at this point in 2015 and even in 2019. But the other part is that, you know, this campaign in 2024, Donald Trump or anyone else, will be a different campaign for Joe Biden to run. The coronavirus and Covid probably has gone. At least we think so. Joe Biden will no longer be the challenger. He is the incumbent. And so this will be kind of a more vigorous campaign that he has to embark on. And I think that's what's really kind of concerned some of the worry.
CHUCK TODD:
Dani, I'm curious if you had sort of the same feeling I did. Here we had Gavin Newsom and you had Bill Cassidy. And you think both parties want to start having a real debate about something, you know? And you can feel it, and here we are. And Cassidy essentially offered himself up as an alternative. I obviously coaxed him a little bit. But the point is, is that this is what I think is going to define this race for the next nine months, this sort of weird uncertainty about what are we going to do about an unpopular pairing of candidates.
DANIELLE PLETKA:
Well, we've still got a lot of shoes to drop, though. Mark, you described, right, what's going to happen when Joe Biden really has to campaign. He can't hide in his basement anymore. What's going to happen when Donald Trump isn't out on Super Tuesday because, you know, he's on trial? And all of those factors are right now just sort of forward looking.
CHUCK TODD:
We're focused – we’re focused on we don't know how the country's going to react to it.
DANIELLE PLETKA:
But – but – but isn’t it – isn't it bizarre that everybody's like, "Oh my god, I hate this so much. But really secretly I love it"? Because they're voting for these people. We don't have some – we don’t have an alternative to Biden. And we don't really have a serious alternative to Trump. He's killing everybody else. So somebody's – somebody's making these decisions.
CORNELL BELCHER:
I'm going to go back in here on – on – on this point, because here's the X factor, because it can become 2015 again. Because you have so many people who are saying, "I'm going to protest my vote. I'm the lesser of two evils." By the way, that's how Donald Trump wins. He wins by subtraction. So – so when you look inside the polling, all the votes who were once got him to 51%, they're now looking at third parties. And I did focus groups, worked with third-party voters and they don't even know who the third-party candidates are. But they're disgruntled about – about politics right now.
CHUCK TODD:
They're going to go shopping. It doesn't mean they don't end up going into saying – smaller, "All right, my choices are small and large. Is there a medium? Is there anything else? Okay, fine, I pick between small and large."
CORNELL BELCHER:
But is it a way to vote?
DANIELLE PLETKA:
Did I just hear you say that you think that Donald Trump could win the 2024 election against Joe Biden?
CORNELL BELCHER:
If 2016 happens again.
AMY WALTER:
Of course.
CHUCK TODD:
What is it, a 5% --
AMY WALTER:
Of course.
CHUCK TODD:
– third-party number?
CORNELL BELCHER:
Yes.
CHUCK TODD:
And then suddenly –
CORNELL BELCHER:
5% or 6% in those states that you're talking about. Look at what happened in Wisconsin in 2016. All those Obama voters voted third party, and it was a slam victory for him there.
CHUCK TODD:
Mark, we did all this math. I mean, literally, the only difference between Biden and Clinton was Gary Johnson.
MARK MURRAY:
Yeah. And, Chuck, again, one of the challenges for Joe Biden in 2024 will be keeping that entire Democratic coalition together. And it wasn't just independence. And it just wasn't young people and voters of color. It was also disaffected Republicans and people who voted for Gary Johnson or Jill Stein in 2016. And so the challenge that he has to do is replicate all of that by in having a record –
CHUCK TODD:
And we saw stories this week. The Biden coalition, particularly African American men and Hispanic men, they're not reliable Democrats as much.
CORNELL BELCHER:
Listen, we'd be remiss, Chuck. I want to talk about that, but we'd be remiss as a panel if we didn't say thank you. Or we interrupt this go-round for us to all say thank you.
CHUCK TODD:
All right, you saw the one minute sign, huh?
CORNELL BELCHER:
And I said, "I gotta say." You know, it's been a great conversation for all for almost a decade.
CHUCK TODD:
It's going to continue.
CORNELL BELCHER:
But thank you for giving me the opportunity to be a part of this conversation.
DANIELLE PLETKA:
Hey, it's been – it’s been an honor. Not just to get to know all of these wonderful people, but to be part of this community that – that is around you at NBC News. It really has.
CHUCK TODD:
I can't believe I get to hang out with people like you.
DANIELLE PLETKA:
I know.
CHUCK TODD:
And you.
AMY WALTER:
We've grown up together in politics. I'm so very proud of you.
CHUCK TODD:
We've been shadowing each other forever.
AMY WALTER:
We have. And you know what I'm the most proud of? Is you have kept your sense of optimism, even though this is a hard job.
CHUCK TODD:
You don't talk to me off camera enough, do you?
AMY WALTER:
I know. But this is a tough job. And you have kept – you're critical, but you're not cynical. And I appreciate that.
CHUCK TODD:
Thanks for that.
MARK MURRAY:
It's been a great ride. A lot of great stories to cover, a lot of ups and downs. Just been a great ride to be with you.
CHUCK TODD:
I'm going to see you at the Miami/Texas National title.
MARK MURRAY:
You got that right.
CHUCK TODD:
Go Canes. Hey, when we come back, speaking of college, all politics is local until it isn't. What college football's decision to expand beyond its traditional region says about where we are heading as a country. Data Download is next.
CHUCK TODD:
Welcome back. Data Download time. Regional trends and viewpoints are increasingly being replaced by national ones in the worlds of business, politics, and even college football. Ad revenues and audience models are dramatically reshaping the world of college athletics, and it's destroying what were once regional conferences. And in many ways, it's sort of a metaphor for how we've handled our politics these days. Here was the Big Ten in 1984. Really nicely, tightly constitution – constructed agricultural Midwestern states and the industrial Midwest. Here's the Big Ten today: It goes coast to coast. Not quite the Midwest anymore. Here's the SEC: Very concentrated here. All southern states, except for one border state there in Kentucky. And now they have gone west, just like America in the 19th century. How about our friends at the Big Eight? Yes, the Big Twelve used to be the Big Eight. It was also concentrated more in the plains and the Midwest. What is it now? Well, it's more of a southwestern conference, if you will, that also stretches to Florida, West Virginia, and Ohio, naturally. And then let's look at the ACC. As you can see here, it truly was a mid-Atlantic and southeast conference. Tobacco Road, basketball, you name it. Well, what is it today? It is now the All Coast Conference, with the additions of Stanford and Cal. Again coast-to-coast, Texas, every major, the four largest states, all represented in the ACC. And then of course there's the Pac-12. Welcome to East Coast bias, right? In 1984, it was the Western Coast Conference. And now, as we know, it has literally disappeared. And that's what's happened to our regional differences. All politics are national. All college football is national. And you know what? It makes you wonder if we lost something. Decisions should be made locally and in communities sometimes. Makes for better politics. Maybe it makes for better college conferences, too. When we come back, the new moderator of Meet the Press joins me as she gets ready for her new Sunday routine.
CHUCK TODD:
Welcome back. The last nine years as moderator of the longest-running show on television has been the honor of my professional life. And as I prepare to pass the baton to the next custodian, it is a privilege to pass it to someone who needs no introduction.
[START TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
Is the United States spying on its European allies? You lost Iowa in 2008, how do you win this time? Are you giving Russian President Vladimir Putin the upper hand heading into your talks? Did you direct Mike Flynn to discuss sanctions with the Russian ambassador –
PRES. DONALD TRUMP:
No, I didn't.
KRISTEN WELKER:
– prior to your –
PRES. DONALD TRUMP:
No, I didn't.
KRISTEN WELKER:
– inauguration?
PRES. DONALD TRUMP:
No, I didn't.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Is abuse of power an impeachable offense? Mr. President, is it humane to separate children from their families? I'm Kristen Welker of NBC News, and I welcome you to the final 2020 presidential debate. Vice President Biden, there have been questions about the work your son has done in China and for a Ukrainian energy company when you were vice president. In retrospect, was anything about those relationships inappropriate or unethical?
FMR. VICE PRES. JOE BIDEN:
Nothing was unethical.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Mr. President, why haven't you been able to get them the help they need? Thirty seconds here.
PRES. DONALD TRUMP:
Because Nancy Pelosi doesn't want to approve it. I do.
KRISTEN WELKER:
But you're the president. Don't you need to recalibrate, to some extent, to try to work across the aisle with the Republican-led House? Is that your signature on the check, though?
HERSCHEL WALKER:
Let me see. It could be. It doesn't matter whether it's my signature or not. You know how many checks I've written? Yes, that's my check.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Does the president need to take the reins? And I'll be at the White House tomorrow, so I'll give you an update when I ask him.
[END TAPE]
CHUCK TODD:
Well, Kristen Welker joins me now in her last appearance as a guest on Meet the Press. You ready?
KRISTEN WELKER:
I am ready, Chuck. And I just want to say I am also so thankful and grateful to you for this moment, for entrusting me with this monumental, important role. I take this responsibility so seriously. I'm ready because you have helped me get ready, Chuck. You are someone who invests in the people that you care about. And you have invested in me. And I am just so eternally grateful for that. I've said it before, I think it bears repeating. You brought me to D.C. You taught me just about everything I know about politics. And I say that a lot, but just to give folks a sense of what I actually mean by that, one of the things that sticks in my mind is you were at a news conference in 2013. Former President Obama, Prime Minister Netanyahu. We were covering the White House at the same time. This was in Jerusalem. You asked more questions than any other reporter. And it was a message to me that you have to have the courage. You have to have the confidence to ask the tough questions, and to ask as many questions --
CHUCK TODD:
It's not a popularity contest.
KRISTEN WELKER:
– as need to be asked.
CHUCK TODD:
Yeah, no.
KRISTEN WELKER:
It's not a popularity contest. And I remember thinking to myself in that moment, "You have to push yourself harder, Kristen. You have to ask tougher questions. You have to make sure you're getting in the follows." The best part about all of this is that you're not going anywhere. You're going to be on speed dial for me and all of us.
CHUCK TODD:
You push yourself hard. You work really hard. You prepare. You out-prepare so many people. Tell me this. I – you know, I had my own thing that I wanted to bring. I wanted to bring more data to what we did and all this stuff. What's something you want to bring that you think will be unique to your tenure as moderator?
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, I want to approach this as a reporter. That's who I am. That's who I've always been. I've covered three administrations now. The Obama administration, the Trump administration, the Biden administration. I've traveled all over the world with all of these presidents. And I really want to bring that to the show every Sunday, to make sure that we are giving our viewers the information that they need. And now, my beat, by the way, is all of Washington, the campaign trail, and, frankly, the world. And I want to be asking those tough questions. I want to be making you proud.
CHUCK TODD:
Oh, you will.
KRISTEN WELKER:
I want to be building on the legacy of this show.
CHUCK TODD:
What are your thoughts about breaking the polarization, breaking this habit where there just – they don't want to answer any questions to people that they think aren't going to ask friendly questions?
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, look, this is something you and I have talked about a lot when you and I have sat at this desk together anchoring on election nights. We are living in a world in which we are deeply divided as a country. And so my thoughts are I need to be keeping my finger on the pulse of what matters to voters. I'm going to be out on the trail. I'm going to be bringing their questions here to the moderator's desk. And you've always said this: The role of the moderator is to bring Washington to the rest of America, and vice versa. It's a huge responsibility. It's one that I take very seriously.
CHUCK TODD:
Look, there's a lot of great imitators to what we do, but there's only one Meet the Press. Now, here's my baton. And part of it is I want to get rid of this. But it's sort of my old reliable. I do not – I have had alarms not go off with this modern thing, Mr. Jobs and Mr. Cook. This thing, with its battery backup, I highly recommend. You know, it does a funny thing. You plug it into a wall, it keeps power. And when the power goes out, it has a battery backup.
KRISTEN WELKER:
I love it.
CHUCK TODD:
It has never failed me.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Thank you.
CHUCK TODD:
My real trick is to set it 40 minutes early. You will never oversleep. But here's my other promise to you. You will never sleep on Saturdays. I have yet to do it.
KRISTEN WELKER:
That is – that is for sure. This is timeless. You are timeless, Chuck. So is this show. Thank you so much. I'm really honored. And again, you've left very big shoes to fill, and I just want to make you proud.
CHUCK TODD:
There are – there are – it is – again, there's a reason we've all used the word custodian, all the previous moderators. It is – again, you're the moderator of the longest-running show in television. Nobody wants to – you don't want to be the last moderator. And hand it over – when you hand it over, it'll, I'm sure, be in a better place than you have it today.
KRISTEN WELKER:
I hope so. I'll work hard to do that. I promise you that, every Sunday.
CHUCK TODD:
Kristen, thank you.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Thanks, Chuck.
CHUCK TODD:
On my first day on the job at Meet the Press, I was handed an audience survey of Sunday show viewers. And the number one reason folks said they tuned in was not because of who the person was behind the chair or the guests. It was simply to get educated. So for nearly a decade, I've had the honor of helping to explain America to Washington and Washington to America, as Kristen just quoted me about. And it's that education piece that I'm hanging my hat on for the rest of my professional life. One thing we will lament – we all lament lately is the lack of knowledge and nuance in our politics and citizenship. That's a vacuum I hope to continue to fill, whether in our continued news coverage here at NBC, or via other venues, like docuseries and docudramas, focused on bridging our divides, piercing these political bubbles. And I will continue, of course, to be a big part of NBC's political coverage, because, as Tom Brokaw said to me, he says, "Look, some networks do some things well, but nobody does politics like NBC." And he was referring back all the way to David Brinkley. And that is sort of the tradition I've always sent from Brinkley to Russert. And that's the stuff I want to carry on. That's the stuff Kristen's going to carry on. I also could not have done this job for the last nine years without the team that you don't see on television. The producers, control room, crew, the editors, the artists, who make this show look like an incredible production every week. I get up early, and they get up earlier. Television is a team sport. And I'm proud to be a member of this team and stay a member of this team, even as a spectator, a cheerleader, and an advisor. So that's all for today. Thanks for watching, and for so many years of loyalty to me and to this show. I'm happy to say my colleague, Kristen Welker, is going to be here next week. Because it doesn't matter who sits in this chair. If it's Sunday, it's Meet the Press.