CHUCK TODD:
This Sunday: The Democrats' drubbing.
GOV.-ELECT GLENN YOUNGKIN:
All righty, Virginia, we won this thing.
CHUCK TODD:
Republicans sweep to victory in Virginia --
SEN. MARK WARNER:
You can't win in Virginia if you only appeal to very liberal voters.
CHUCK TODD:
-- and nearly upset Governor Phil Murphy in New Jersey.
PRES. JOE BIDEN:
The people want us to get things done. They want us to get things done.
CHUCK TODD:
Republicans hoping the big night translates into big wins in next year's midterms.
REP. KEVIN McCARTHY:
If you're a Democrat and President Biden won your seat by 16 points, you're in a competitive race next year. You are no longer safe.
CHUCK TODD:
My guests this morning: White House Chief of Staff Ron Klain, Governor Phil Murphy of New Jersey and Senator Rick Scott of Florida, the head of the Republican Senate Campaign Committee. Plus, the House finally passes the big bipartisan infrastructure bill.
REP. PETE AGUILAR:
The motion is adopted.
CHUCK TODD:President Biden gets a much-needed victory, even as Democrats delay a vote on the larger social safety net bill.
PRES. JOE BIDEN:
I don't think it's an exaggeration to suggest that we took a monumental step forward as a nation.
CHUCK TODD:
Also, my interview with New Zealand's Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern on China, America's place in the world and climate change:
PRIME MINISTER JACINDA ARDERN:
It's not enough to simply say, "we'll wait until everyone else does their bit." I've heard that argument. We have to do ours now, lest we all end up on a steep drop to the bottom.
CHUCK TODD:
Joining me for insight and analysis are: New York Times Chief White House Correspondent Peter Baker, former Democratic Congresswoman Donna Edwards, PBS NewsHour Chief Correspondent Amna Nawaz and former White House Political Director for George W. Bush, Sara Fagen. Welcome to Sunday. It's Meet the Press.
ANNOUNCER:
From NBC News in Washington, the longest-running show in television history. This is Meet the Press with Chuck Todd.
CHUCK TODD:
Good Sunday morning. So what happened to Democrats on Tuesday goes far beyond the defeat of Terry McAuliffe in Virginia or Governor Phil Murphy's narrow escape in New Jersey. If you look at it from coast-to-coast, it was a warning to Democrats that their Congressional majorities are in grave danger. Terry McAuliffe, running for his old job as governor in Virginia, fell a net 12 and a half points off of Mr. Biden's 2020 victory in that state. Even in victory, Governor Phil Murphy's net loss in New Jersey compared to what Biden got in 2020 was roughly 13 points. Kind of familiar. So what happened? Was the standoff between progressives and moderates partly to blame? Probably. Did President Biden misread his mandate? Many Democrats think he did. Was the public's sense that the county was on the wrong track a factor? Clearly. That said, on Friday Mr. Biden followed up the Democratic drubbing with one of the best days he's had in office yet: The strong October employment report with over half a million jobs added in a month, the best showing since July and the House passage -- finally -- of the long-delayed trillion-dollar bipartisan infrastructure bill, which of course is one of the pillars of the President's agenda. Still, as Democrats pick through the rubble of Tuesday's election, Republicans are partying like it's 2009. Remember that year? That was one year before they ended up flipping 63 Democratic House seats.
PRES. JOE BIDEN:
All of the talk about the elections and what do they mean? They want us to deliver.
CHUCK TODD:
After a devastating loss for Democrats in Virginia --
GOV.-ELECT GLENN YOUNGKIN:
Alrighty Virginia! We won this thing!
CHUCK TODD:
-- and a surprising nailbiter in New Jersey, Democrats are sounding alarm bells, worried a toxic national environment could cost them control of Congress in midterm elections next year.
REP. KEVIN McCARTHY:
If you're a Democrat and President Biden won your seat by 16 points, you're in a competitive race next year. You are no longer safe.
CHUCK TODD:
Late Friday night, after two failed attempts to bring it to the floor, the House finally passed the trillion-dollar bipartisan infrastructure bill 228-to-206 --
REP. PETE AGUILAR:
The motion is adopted.
CHUCK TODD:
-- with six Democrats voting against it, and 13 Republicans bucking their party leadership to put the bill over the line.
PRES. JOE BIDEN:
Finally! Infrastructure week!
CHUCK TODD:
Most House progressives supported the measure, which they had been holding up hoping to extract more spending on a larger social safety net and climate change bill, after a pledge from moderates that they would hold a vote on that bill by November 15th, provided it does not add one cent to the deficit.
REP. PRAMILA JAYAPAL:
We're going to trust each other, because the Democratic Party is together on this.
REP. MARK POCAN:
The whole day was a cluster*** right. But beyond that, I thought everyone was working in a very congenial way.
PRES. JOE BIDEN:
I feel confident that we will have enough votes to pass the Build Back Better Plan.
REPORTER:
What gives you that confidence?
BIDEN:
Me.
CHUCK TODD:
Passage also followed a push by President Biden, who made personal calls to both progressives and moderates on Friday.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Do you think that Terry McAuliffe would have won if your agenda had passed before election day?
PRES. JOE BIDEN:
Well, I think we should have-- it should have passed before Election Day, but I'm not sure that I would be able to have changed the number of very conservative folks who turned out in the red districts who were Trump voters, but maybe.
SEN. TIM KAINE:
Look, congressional Dems hurt Terry McAuliffe.
REP. PRAMILA JAYAPAL:
There is no way that you can say that a 12 point swing in a state is due to Congress not passing a bill.
CHUCK TODD:
Meanwhile, some Democrats are urging the party to scale back the size and scope of their social spending agenda.
REP. JOE MANCHIN:
This is not a center-left or a left country. We are a center -- if anything, a little center-right country.
SEN. MARK WARNER:
You can’t win in Virginia if you only appeal to very liberal voters.
CHUCK TODD:
While others blame the economy and inflation. In exit polls, 53% of Virginians said they disapproved of President Biden's job performance. Can Republicans galvanize support next year by seizing on the culture war issues which propelled Glenn Youngkin's campaign?
SEN. MARK WARNER:
In terms of concerns about education at the local level, he touched a, a nerve.
CHUCK TODD:
And will Republicans in blue and purple states borrow Youngkin's approach: supporting Donald Trump while staying personally at a distance.
GOV.-ELECT GLENN YOUNGKIN:
We stayed away from being negative and divisive, and we brought people together.
CHUCK TODD:
Well, joining me now is the president's chief of staff, Ron Klain. Mr. Klain, welcome back to Meet the Press, sir.
RON KLAIN:
Thanks for having me, Chuck.
CHUCK TODD:
The bipartisan infrastructure package passed the Senate on August 10 and it now passed the House on November 5. Obviously, a lot happened between that time period. How important, frankly, were Tuesday's elections to you creating the urgency among Democrats to get this done on Friday night?
RON KLAIN:
Well, look, I do think the voters sent a message on Tuesday. They wanted to see more action in Washington. They wanted to see things move more quickly. And three days later, Congress responded, passing the president's infrastructure bill. But a lot of work went into getting us there over the past few months. So I don't think the election alone put it over the line. What put it over the line was President Biden starting back in April, putting it before the country, working with Democrats and Republicans in the Senate to get it through the Senate in August, working with a broad coalition in the House to finally pass it. You know, Chuck, this is the oldest show on television, as you know. As long as this show's been on the air, people have come on this show and said, "We should make a massive investment in infrastructure to grow the economy, to strengthen things." We finally did it on Friday. That's the bottom line for us, I think.
CHUCK TODD:
I have to say this, Ron. I've got to ask you, is it easier to pass a bipartisan bill right now than it is to pass a Democrats-only bill? Because watching what's happened, it does seem to be the case.
RON KLAIN:
Well, I think we're going to get both of these bills done. Look, I wish Republicans would support the Build Back Better Act. I don't know why Republicans will not vote for cutting childcare costs in half, or letting Medicare negotiate the prices of drugs down to save seniors money, why they won't vote for two years of preschool for everyone. So I wish that bill were bipartisan as well. But we got this infrastructure bill passed. We are going to get the Build Back Better Act passed in the House when the Congress comes back after this Veterans Day break. We're making progress on this agenda.
CHUCK TODD:
It's -- the question I think a lot of people have this morning, at least, that follow this Build Back Better part of negotiations very closely is: It does seem that the things that were added to the House version -- paid family leave, which a week ago the president said was out, is back in; Medicare negotiating prescription drug pricing: when last week the president said it was out, the House put it back in; the modifications to state and local taxes: it was out, now it's back in; immigration: that's something for the parliamentarian, but it was out, now it’s back in. All of those things were out because it didn't seem to have Senate support. And there's no indication that Senators Manchin or Sinema are all on board -- everything like this. Are House progressives prepared for this to get scaled right back again?
RON KLAIN:
Well Chuck, I disagree with some of that. I mean, immigration was in the framework the president put out before he left for Europe, and the Medicare prescription drug provision -- something we just needed to work the final details out. Senator Sinema has been a real leader in trying to get us to the finish line with that, along with Senator Klobuchar, Senator Schumer, others on all sides of our party. And so you know, it took a little longer to get that across the finish line. I think this bill will pass the House when the House comes back. I'm sure the Senate will make changes, that's the way the legislative process works. But we are going to get a very strong version of this bill through the House, through the Senate, to the president’s desk and into law. And again, it's because the American people need some help with their basic expenses. One thing this bill does is it cuts the cost of childcare in half, in half for middle class families. That's one of the main pain points in their budget. So I think this bill is gaining momentum. We're going to get it passed. We’re going to get it signed. And most importantly, we're going to get to work for the American people.
CHUCK TODD:
I want to ask about one thing that came up in the climate summit that may have an impact on Build Back Better. The United States was notably absent from signing onto a pledge to phase out coal. We joined India and China among countries that did not sign that pledge. There's been some reporting -- and it's one of those sources, so it's not on-the-record sources -- that indicated Senator Manchin was certainly in the heads of U.S. negotiators when that decision not to sign on on eliminating coal was made. Is that the case? Is Joe Manchin's vote for Build Back Better a part of the decision in not signing onto coal, getting rid of coal?
RON KLAIN:
No. Look -- no, look, we're in a transition here to get us to a clean energy future. What is in our minds is the fact that that Build Back Better plan that we've been talking about has the largest investment in American history to get us to a clean energy economy, to create millions of jobs in this country moving forward to sustainable, renewable energy. Not just creating jobs here, deploying those energies here, but building the technology to ship around the world. So we're making progress. The president had a great time and great, effective time in Glasgow meeting with world leaders, making sure they know the U.S. is back. Look, President Biden was in Glasgow. The presidents of Russia and China were not. We are going to lead the world in tackling climate change. We're going to pass this bill and have the tools to do it.
CHUCK TODD:
I want to ask you a little bit about the political fallout from Tuesday. I want to show you something from our, the last national poll we had, which was on this show last Sunday. And I want to show you something about the voters' feelings about President Biden and former President Trump. They're much closer to being aligned by the voters. The voters still find the former president very unpopular, 38% to 50%. But this president is sitting at 40% positive, 48% negative. Why do you think that is? And what has been the cause of the president's decline here, in your opinion?
RON KLAIN:
In my opinion, it's been a rough and tough year and we knew it would be. President Biden has said this all the time. We're in a yearlong effort to dig out of the holes we were left. We inherited a debt economy, 50,000 jobs a month. We're now finally back to 500,000 jobs a month. We inherited a country where 4,000 people a day, 4,000 people a day were dying from Covid. That's now down 75%. So I understand that voters are tired. Americans are tired of how long it's taken to get the economy moving, to get Covid under control. I feel the frustration personally myself. I think everyone does. And I think that frustration wears on people. But I think what the American people are going to see is we have put in place the strategies, the actions to turn that around. They are in a show-me-don't-tell-me mode. I think we are going to show them in the weeks and months ahead that we have made this progress on Covid, we have made this progress on the economy. We are past now, the infrastructure bill. We can start to get going on implementing that. I think that will pay off results.
CHUCK TODD:
I want to ask you about another exit poll result that we saw in Virginia. It was about voters' perceptions of the two parties. And more people, 51%, thought the Democratic Party was too liberal than who thought the Republican Party was too conservative, at 46%. Do you fear that there is a perception problem about the Democratic Party among independent voters and perhaps right-of-center voters, that the party looks like it's too progressive?
RON KLAIN:
I don't think so, Chuck. Look, I think part of that reflects who turned out in Virginia Tuesday night. That is its own problem and issue. But I also do want to push back a little bit. Look, we lost on Tuesday in Virginia. It was painful. Terry McAuliffe's an old friend of mine. I'm so sad to see him lose, lose the Virginia legislature. But it's also worth noting on Tuesday night we did get Governor Murphy, who is on next, reelected in New Jersey. The first Democrat in 44 years to get reelected in New Jersey. We held onto the mayorship in New York. Eric Adams, a great new leader for our party. We lost the mayorship in New York in 2009, the last time we had a new Democratic president. We had a lot of great, exciting Democrats elected around the country. The first woman, the first person of color elected mayor of Boston. We had Shontel Brown elected to the U.S. House in Ohio. So we definitely suffered some losses on Tuesday, no question about it. We have to learn from that. We have to do better from that. But I also think we had some wins on Tuesday. We can take some pride in that too.
CHUCK TODD:
I want to ask you before I let you go about the court ruling yesterday on the vaccine, on the vaccine protocols that OSHA's putting out, sort of the soft mandate. I don't want to call it a hard mandate because of the testing option. There's a freeze. What does that mean for the federal government's efforts? I mean, do you stop preparing for January 4 in the moment? How does this work?
RON KLAIN:
Well, I think what it means for the time being is that the effectiveness of that vaccine requirement is frozen. I think it will certainly be well litigated though well before January 3. So I'm not sure it really has much practical effect in the short run. Look, these vaccine requirements have been litigated up and down the courts all over the country. State requirements, for example, one in Maine. And every single court before this one ruled that they were valid. The Supreme Court has turned back several times already various efforts to enjoin other vaccine requirements. I'm quite confident that when this finally gets fully adjudicated, not just a temporary order, the validity of this requirement will be upheld. It's common sense, Chuck. If OSHA can tell people to wear a hard hat on the job, to be careful around chemicals, it could put in place these simple measures to keep our workers safe.
CHUCK TODD:
We will find out if the courts agree. Ron Klain, chief of staff to President Biden. Appreciate you coming on, sharing the administration's perspective.
RON KLAIN:
Thanks, Chuck. Thanks for having me.
CHUCK TODD:
Joining me now is Democratic Governor Phil Murphy of New Jersey, whose expected easy reelection win turned into a bit of a squeaker, a sign of the tough national landscape facing Democrats. So Governor Murphy, welcome back to Meet the Press, sir.
GOV. PHIL MURPHY:
Good to be back, Chuck. Thanks for having me.
CHUCK TODD:
So let me ask you this. Look, on one hand, you made history. First Democrat to win reelection. And I know you're going to say that, how difficult that was. And, you know, whether you win by a vote, I get it. But I'm sure you were surprised that it was as close as it was. What lesson do you take away from this squeaker?
GOV. PHIL MURPHY:
Yeah, listen, I'm happy to have made history. I got more votes this time than last time, so that's all for the good. A couple of reactions. Thank God we put the programs in place we put in place, the actions we took, whether it's expanding pre-K, raising the minimum wage, investing at all-time record levels in infrastructure, because I think, had we not, we might've been swept away as well. And secondly, Chuck, it's quite clear there's a lot of hurt out there. And there are a lot of kitchen tables that we need to connect more deeply with and help folks get through this period, whether they lost a loved one, a job, a small business, they're frustrated by the ongoing pandemic or economic recovery, whatever it may be. I like what we're doing, that's quite clear. Without it, we might've been swept away. But we want to reach more deeply into more families in our state.
CHUCK TODD:
Do you agree with the state party chair, LeRoy Jones, who said this to The New York Times on Thursday: "The paralysis in Washington has worked its way here in New Jersey. The dysfunction has caused people to take pause"? Do you agree?
GOV. PHIL MURPHY:
I think LeRoy -- I think to a certain extent, LeRoy has put his finger on one of the factors. You know, it's remarkable. The debate in Washington -- although this infrastructure bill on Friday, by the way, is a game changer. We're the most densely populated state in America, so it's a particular game changer for New Jersey. But on the whole Build Back Better debate, it feels very abstract from here. New Jersey is doing it, expanding pre-K, expanding childcare, funding public education, making housing more affordable, college more affordable, health care more affordable. So you look at that debate in Washington and folks feel like, "Well, I wonder if this would work." And I'm screaming out, "Listen, look at New Jersey. It is working. We're doing this stuff and we know it works." And I think there's a fair amount of that as well, Chuck.
CHUCK TODD:
I want to ask you about a comment you made in 2019 that got uttered over and over again in TV ads. Let me play it.
[BEGIN TAPE]
GOV. PHIL MURPHY:
If you're a one-issue voter and tax rate is your issue, either a family or a business, if that's the only basis upon which you're going to make a decision, we're probably not your state.
[END TAPE]
CHUCK TODD:
Governor, I've been covering New Jersey elections since the early '90s. And I have to tell you, taxes has been one issue for a lot of voters in New Jersey. And it has led to a lot of Republican victories in New Jersey. Do you regret that comment?
GOV. PHIL MURPHY:
First of all, it didn't lead to a Republican victory this year, importantly. Now, that's taken out of context, Chuck. But we view ourselves, and there's a lot of data to support this, as the number one state in America to raise a family. We have the number one public education system in America, one of the top health systems in America, a quality of life that is in many respects second to none. And affordability is very much a part of that. We inherited a mess four years ago. I promise you every single day we've been fighting to make this state more affordable and make it every day the number one state in America to raise a family. We've been doing that. And I commit to folks we'll continue to do that.
CHUCK TODD:
There also appears to be a bit of, maybe it's an ideological issue, South Jersey. Look, we saw it with the party switch of Jeff Van Drew two years earlier. And it seems as though -- I believe it was in the same district that your state Senate president is in and lost. Do you think progressive politics is just not playing as well in South Jersey as it might in North Jersey?
GOV. PHIL MURPHY:
Couple of things. First of all, I'm very proud that the entire New Jersey delegation on both sides of the aisle voted for the infrastructure bill on Friday. I think that's a real testament to our ability to come together. Secondly, shocked that my friend and partner Steve Sweeney has lost a race.
I think it is a combination of where we started in this conversation a couple of minutes ago, Chuck. We've got to get to more kitchen tables. I don't think that raising the minimum wage, expanding pre-K, making college, health care more affordable, all-time high investments in infrastructure, I don't think that's a progressive, non-progressive agenda. I think that's directed at making families' lives better and quality of life better. But we've got to clearly connect more deeply into more kitchen tables in this state. That is for sure.
CHUCK TODD:
Mandate fatigue. Everybody has it. I think you know it. Probably people that abide by the rules have it. Considering that that seemed to be a little bit of a motivator for some, are you at all thinking about some relief on any of your mandates?
GOV. PHIL MURPHY:
Listen, there's mandate fatigue everywhere, including with yours truly. So let there be no doubt about that. At the moment, no. But my hope is, particularly with our kids under the age of 12 now being able to get the vaccine, that we will at someday, sooner than later, be able to lift the mask mandate that we have in schools. That is my fervent hope. We're not there yet. But please God, we can get there sooner than later. We've got to get there safely, responsibly. But I believe we can get there. And I hope it's sooner than later.
CHUCK TODD:
All right. Governor Phil Murphy, Democrat from New Jersey who did make history, the first Democrat to win reelection in New Jersey since the '70s. But boy, was it a squeaker. Thanks for coming on and sharing your perspective of what happened.
GOV. PHIL MURPHY:
Thanks for having me, Chuck.
CHUCK TODD:
When we come back, I'm going to talk to the other side of the aisle with the Republican that's charged with winning back the Senate for the GOP in 2022. It's Senator Rick Scott of Florida. Stay with us.
CHUCK TODD:
Welcome back. After their strong election night on Tuesday, Republicans are even more bullish about winning control of the House next year, and now even the 50-50 Senate. Senator Rick Scott of Florida is the head of the Republican Senate campaign committee and he joins me now. Senator Scott, welcome back to Meet The Press, sir.
SEN. RICK SCOTT:
It's great. It was a good day for Republicans on Tuesday and I think it puts us in position and we're going to have a great November '22.
CHUCK TODD:
Let me start with something here that stuck out to me, that as unpopular as Joe Biden was in Virginia, Donald Trump was actually more unpopular. Both Glenn Youngkin and Jack Ciattarelli had a similar stance on how to deal with Donald Trump. They didn't attack him or denounce him, but they didn't embrace him or hug him, and sort of sending a message a bit to independent voters. Is that the better formula? And is that the formula you're looking for in Republican candidates in battleground states in 2022?
SEN. RICK SCOTT:
Well, first, I hope Democrats continue to be obsessed with Donald Trump. I think Terry McAuliffe would probably run his campaign differently. He wouldn't focus his whole campaign on Donald Trump. I think what we have to do is we have to say we would love Donald Trump's endorsement. If you're a Republican, you want his endorsement, but you're going to win on the issues. And if you listen to Ron Klain and you listen to Phil Murphy, they didn't get it. What, what Americans are fed up with, they're fed up with inflation. They're fed up with their kids being indoctrinated in their schools and they're fed up with defunding the police. And those are the issues that people care about. And so, I think this obsession with Donald Trump is going to be good for Republicans next year.
CHUCK TODD:
So, you're okay -- because one of the things you had said is you didn't want Donald Trump to, that you were hoping he would not get involved in open Senate primaries, that you didn't want to get involved in open Senate primaries and you wanted the former president to be the same way. But he's not taken your advice. Does that complicate your ability to recruit candidates that you think can win?
SEN. RICK SCOTT:
Absolutely not. I believe Republicans ought to let the voters decide. I remember my primary in 2010, my opponent had every Republican endorsement in the country almost and I won because I focused on the issue. So, I think you'd be foolish not to want and accept Donald Trump's endorsement, but you're going to win not because somebody endorses you. You're going to win because you focused on making sure inflation gets stopped, making sure people get a job, making sure your kids aren't indoctrinated on critical race theory, making sure we have safe communities. That's going to be the issues that people care about.
CHUCK TODD:
You had said you're going to support all incumbents and I'm just curious, does that include Lisa Murkowski, where the former president has endorsed a primary challenger? And when you said you support, does that mean you will financially support Lisa Murkowski and actually help run a campaign against a primary opponent?
SEN. RICK SCOTT:
Absolutely. We support -- The National Republican Senatorial Committee, we support all of our incumbents. And fortunately for us, we've got great candidates running in our primaries. And fortunately for us, we've got Bernie Sanders candidates on the other side in many primaries. And so, we're going to be in a great position in '22.
CHUCK TODD:
Let me ask you this. Is there -- if you win the majority in the Senate, is there something that a Republican Senate majority is going to work with President Biden on? Or are we looking at two years of gridlock?
SEN. RICK SCOTT:
Well, I always say, "When we win”, we're going to -- in '22, look, I want to work with Democrats, but here's what I want to do. I want to create the best economy we could ever have. We had a great economy under President Trump. I want to make sure kids get a great education. I want to fund the police. I want to fund our military. So, now, if the Democrats want to continue to bankrupt our country, continue to raise the debt ceiling, continue to raise taxes, I'm going to fight that. I came to Washington to fight that stuff. I cut taxes and fees a hundred times as a governor. I paid off a third of the state debt. I had record funding for education, for the environment, for transportation. Those are the things I want to do, but I'm not going to go, I’m not going to go, and I hope Republicans don't go down this path of wasting money because eventually it costs somebody money.
CHUCK TODD:
You think it was a mistake for Republicans to support the bipartisan infrastructure bill?
SEN. RICK SCOTT:
Well, everybody gets to make their own choice, but here's the way I looked at it. I like infrastructure. To me, that's roads, bridges, airports, and seaports. I spent $85 billion during my years as a governor, but guess what, I cut taxes and I also paid off a third of the state debt. That bill, remember how they promised it was going to be paid for? It wasn't. It wasn't paid for. And less than half of it dealt with roads, bridges, airports, and seaports. Let’s do a bill that’s real. We should do things and be honest what it is. Let's just do real infrastructure and let's quit saying that we're not going to raise your taxes eventually because we have these deficits. Chuck, we almost have $30 trillion worth of debt. $30 trillion worth of debt. We have to hope to God that our interest rates never go up because it will never be paid for. And by the way, there's no conversation about how do you -- we've got to fix Medicare. We've got to fix Social Security to make sure they're funded and these programs can continue to last. The Democrats in D.C. and the Republicans continue to waste your money. And I'm going to, I’m going to oppose it all the way along.
CHUCK TODD:
I've got to ask you something from our last poll because it is driving, I think, a major divisive point in American politics. And it's this issue of do you believe Joe Biden was elected legitimately. 93% of Democrats believe that, 71% of independents, but only 22% of Republicans believe Joe Biden was elected legitimately. Why is that?
SEN. RICK SCOTT:
I can tell you Joe Biden is the president. We went through the constitutional process that, you know, he was elected. Now, I do believe there's a lot of buyer's remorse. A lot of people are scared to death of this ridiculous, this unbelievable inflation. Gas prices are up 50%, food prices up, housing prices up. I mean, the botched withdrawal from Afghanistan, all these things. So, I think there's a lot of buyer's remorse --
CHUCK TODD:
I understand what you're saying, but why -- then you're part of the 22% that believe he was legitimately elected. Why do four in five Republicans not believe that?
SEN. RICK SCOTT:
Well, I think you'd have to ask them, but I think, I think Joe Biden was elected president. I think, but you know, what we've got to do right now, we've got to figure out how do we start helping these families, because I can tell you what, in D.C. that's not happening.
CHUCK TODD:
Senator, I think we both know the reason why that is. And let me put up something that the former president put out on October 21st. Not, like, six months ago. This is, like, three weeks ago. And he said this. "The insurrection took place on November 3rd, Election Day. January 6th was the protest." Is there any part of that statement that you agree with?
SEN. RICK SCOTT:
First, Chuck, Democrats are focused on Donald Trump. Americans are focused on the future. So, look, you can go ask all these questions about why people think the way they do. I can tell you what, you know, we're going to win in '22 because we're going to talk about issues. We're not going to talk about the last election.
CHUCK TODD:
But isn’t it, you don't think it's a mistake to denounce what the former president is saying as a lie? I mean, it's not healthy -- you won three elections by less than 1%. You won three elections, by the way, by less than a, less of a raw vote than the state of Pennsylvania where you voted to object. Every one of your Democrat opponents conceded. Why hasn't former President Trump conceded?
SEN. RICK SCOTT:
I think you'd have to ask President Trump. I mean, first off, let's put it in perspective. My opponent in '18 did not concede until we went through two recounts and there were illegally found ballots after election night. So, let's don't act like these people just, oh, gosh, you're right, you won.
CHUCK TODD:
Went through the court --
SEN. RICK SCOTT:
That's not exactly what happened out here.
CHUCK TODD:
Look, nobody is saying you don't go through the process. Senator --
SEN. RICK SCOTT:
And we have plenty of Democrats that don't --
CHUCK TODD:
I didn't say that --
SEN. RICK SCOTT:
Chuck, Chuck, Chuck, wait a second. We've got plenty of Democrats that don't concede, okay. That's what happened. So, here's what happened. We have a duly elected president, okay. If -- the Constitution was followed, I hope Democrats keep focusing all their time on Donald Trump. Republicans are going to focus on the issues and we're going to win big in '22. And that's exactly what I plan on doing.
CHUCK TODD:
You're not at all concerned that former president Trump is helping to create a false narrative that there's something wrong with our elections?
SEN. RICK SCOTT:
I'm focused on how do we win in '22. And I know exactly how to win. Do what I did in my three races, focus on issues. And by the way, if anybody wants to help make sure we win, go to NRSC.org. You can donate and make sure we win back the majority and Chuck Schumer is no longer the majority leader and taking us down this ridiculous socialist path.
CHUCK TODD:
Speaking of majority leader, are you 100% supportive of Mitch McConnell as majority leader if you win the Senate?
SEN. RICK SCOTT:
Absolutely. Mitch McConnell, I've known Mitch McConnell since the early '90s. I actually lived in Kentucky and supported him them. I have a good working relationship with Mitch McConnell. And we have elections generally every two years for the majority leader.
CHUCK TODD:
Senator Rick Scott, Republican from Florida and the man charged with helping Republicans get control of the Senate in 2022. I appreciate you coming on and sharing your perspective with us, sir.
SEN. RICK SCOTT:
See you, Chuck.
CHUCK TODD:
Thank you. When we come back, how bad is the political landscape for Democrats? It's even tougher than you might think. The panel is next.
CHUCK TODD:
Welcome back. The panel is here. PBS NewsHour chief Correspondent Amna Nawaz; New York Times chief White House Correspondent Peter Baker; former White House political director for George W. Bush, Sara Fagen; and former Democratic Congresswoman Donna Edwards. All right, I'm going to force a start to our conversation here. One of the real problems for Democrats that was exposed in Tuesday's Virginia elections, rural white voters. Look at this. Look at your screens, guys. Last year, President Trump won Virginia's rural voters by six points, 52-46. Actually, not a good showing in Virginia for a Republican. But on Tuesday, Glenn Youngkin won rural voters by 27 points. You'd call that a huge increase. And here's what makes that gain so important. Rural voters increased their percentage of the electorate this year by three percentage points. So, from 16% of the electorate in '20 to nearly one in five voters in Virginia were from rural Virginia. It gave Youngkin too big of a lead for McAuliffe to overcome no matter how well he did in urban and suburban areas. So, Donna, you're representing the Democrats on this one. Rural, you know, if the state -- look, I don't know if there's enough votes in rural Maryland to overcome this for -- to give Democrats a problem, but clearly there was in Virginia and there almost was in New Jersey. It's a problem.
DONNA EDWARDS:
Well, I think it is. I mean, one of the challenges is that we're not going to win rural voters, but you have to contest for them. And I think one of the things that Youngkin did that was very effective was he went into Democratic strongholds. He didn't have to win; he just needed to peel off enough.
CHUCK TODD:
Chip away, right.
DONNA EDWARDS:
And I think that, as Democrats, we have to think about how it is that we contest for some of those voters, pull them into our corner. And I think it's possible to do that, you know, but 1%, 2%, 3% in these areas can make the difference in the election.
SARA FAGEN:
I think it's much more simple than that. You know, Congressman Abigail Spanberger said it best. She said, "We didn't elect” -- the Democrat -- “We didn't elect him to be FDR. We elected him to stop the chaos and be normal." And that's not how Joe Biden is governing. And that is why the Democrats lost in Virginia. It's why we saw lots of Republican victories across the country in local elections, school board elections, is that the progressive movement in the Democratic Party is driving the debate. They're driving the intellectual issues on the table. And Democrats -- moderate Democrats, Joe Biden, is allowing it to happen.
CHUCK TODD:
Amna, here's the math, okay. If you are losing 36% of all voters by a 76-24 margin, okay, and this is right now for the Democrats, it means they have to win 65% of all eligible voters. That's how bad the rural issue is. I think someone said, "What's bottom?" And someone said, "You know, the bottom is zero." And they weren't being facetious.
AMNA NAWAZ:
Yeah, I mean, look, the rural concern for Democrats isn't new either, right. Go back to 2018.
CHUCK TODD:
It's just gotten worse.
AMNA NAWAZ:
You've got Heidi Heitkamp and Joe Donnelly. They started a PAC specifically to appeal to rural voters. This has been an issue for Democrats. And I think even if you look just at Virginia, yes, Youngkin was able to drive up the rural vote, got even bigger margins than 2020 among rural and white voters. Also flipped a couple of those key districts in the suburbs and exurbs, right. Chesterfield County outside of Richmond, Stafford County outside of D.C. And then Democrats weren’t able to, even though they increased turnout, weren't able to keep apace with the GOP increase in turnout. That's the trifecta for Republicans. It's a triple whammy for Democrats. But in addition to Covid and economy, which were the two biggest issues for Virginia voters, this education issue, which we keep talking about, which is not really about how kids -- how well they read or write or what they're learning in chemistry. It's about race and racism and history. And that really appealed and turned out a lot of parents, in particular, in Virginia, who've long been frustrated for the last 18 months.
CHUCK TODD:
You know, Peter, I think what's gotten lost here is Tuesday's elections were all on Democratic turf.
PETER BAKER:
Uh-huh. Yes.
CHUCK TODD:
Okay. Whether it's cities or the two states that are light blue and dark blue, or so we thought, right, on those things. And whenever there was a choice, from Seattle to Buffalo, and a progressive and a non-progressive, but still left of center, voters even in the cities picked the left of center.
PETER BAKER:
No, they did. That's right. That's true. In New York City, that was true. And a lot of these other districts and places in Long Island and others. And I think what it says is that, in fact, you know, it's possible to overread a single election. Just because Donald Trump lost doesn't mean the Republicans have suddenly lost their traction. In fact, Republicans have done pretty well in the last 13 months, right. They won House seats last year even as Donald Trump was losing. What Virginia voters showed, and I think other voters around the country showed, is they're willing to vote for Republicans, just not Trump. They didn't want to vote for Trump. Youngkin not only outpaced Trump in terms of winning the state, which Trump lost, he outpaced him across the board. And through almost every city and county in Virginia, he got better, more votes than Trump did last year, even though it was an off-year election.
DONNA EDWARDS:
Well, but I think that you have, I mean, in not overreading an election, you have to look at a combination of factors, the campaign that was run. You can't ignore the candidate and the campaign. And you can't ignore the fact that the national context had a lot to do with this election. So, I don't think that we can point to one or the other, but Democrats do have to be willing to do some self-examination and to recalibrate when it comes to '22.
SARA FAGEN:
But I think if you think about the issues that were being talked about, yes, Terry McAuliffe focused way too much on Donald Trump, but he also was focused on abortion. He was focused on climate change. He was focused on these big partisan issues while Glenn Youngkin was talking about lowering your grocery taxes in a time of inflation, of education, of crime.
CHUCK TODD:
By the way, how many times did Phil Murphy say kitchen table in my interview?
SARA FAGEN:
He said it a lot. He got the memo.
CHUCK TODD:
Do you think he got the message? He got the memo?
SARA FAGEN:
He got the memo.
CHUCK TODD:
I mean, I thought that was kind of interesting. I mean, it's like, “kitchen table.” It's like, yes, we know. We weren't talking about what voters were talking about.
PETER BAKER:
Well, that's how the Democrats won in 2018, right. What Nancy Pelosi would tell you is the reason they won the midterms was not by talking about Donald Trump, although he was the context and that was the environment in which it was taking place, but by talking about healthcare, by talking about issues that mattered to voters.
CHUCK TODD:
All right, look, let’s quickly, I'm going to get to the Trump stuff and we're going to have another conversation about that, but let's talk about what happened on Friday, quickly, Amna, because I'm trying to figure out, they spent months saying, "We're never decoupling these bills."
AMNA NAWAZ:
Right.
CHUCK TODD:
They decoupled the bill.
AMNA NAWAZ:
Yes.
CHUCK TODD:
And I have no idea what the heck's going to happen to Build Back Better.
AMNA NAWAZ:
Correct.
CHUCK TODD:
I don't think it -- okay.
AMNA NAWAZ:
We'll see in eight days.
CHUCK TODD:
We'll see in eight days or --
AMNA NAWAZ:
We'll see in eight days.
CHUCK TODD:
-- or eight weeks? Or three months? Okay.
AMNA NAWAZ:
Correct. Yes. But look, here's what the progressives say and this is why they're calling it a win. I spoke with Congressman Pramila Jayapal yesterday and she says, "Look, the six Democrats, the moderates who are holding up the bill, I have a personal commitment from them that they're going to support it. They made a commitment in paper to me personally and to the president." This trust deficit they've been talking about right, they are now talking to each other, the progressives and the six moderates in particular. So, she has every confidence this is going to move forward. The bigger issue they have here though, does go back to the Virginia election, too, which is messaging what is in this thing. I think most people don't even know how it impacts them. The majority of Americans don't know what's in it.
CHUCK TODD:
Because last Thursday something was not in it and now it is in it.
AMNA NAWAZ:
Correct.
CHUCK TODD:
Okay, like paid leave.
AMNA NAWAZ:
And this is why the White House is now saying -- they’re telling me you're going to see the Cabinet members out this week. You're going to see Transportation and Interior and others out specifically --
CHUCK TODD:
What are they selling though? Are they selling what's already passed?
AMNA NAWAZ:
They're selling what's already passed, yes. Well, they need to take credit. This is the victory lap.
DONNA EDWARDS:
Well, they're going to sell what is in Build Back Better. And I'm actually confident that it's going to make it across the finish line. But this is --
CHUCK TODD:
But what's going to be in it?
DONNA EDWARDS:
Well, look, I think for the American people -- we know pre-kindergarten is going to be in there.
CHUCK TODD:
Sorry, I know. I didn't mean to put you on the spot.
DONNA EDWARDS:
-- We know that tax credits going to be in there. I mean, there are things that we actually know are going to be in there when it finally passes. And I think that the challenge for Democrats is let's just stop talking about the number. Nobody knows the difference when they don't have $500 in their --
SARA FAGEN:
The numbers matter a lot.
DONNA EDWARDS:
Wait, they don't know if they have $500 in their bank account. They don't understand what a trillion dollars is. And the number, it's going to be paid for and it's going to benefit individual Americans and their own families.
SARA FAGEN:
When you have $500 --
CHUCK TODD:
Very quick, Sara.
SARA FAGEN:
--in your bank account, though, what you see in front of you is a tax increase and you don't have money to pay for it. That's the problem for Democrats.
DONNA EDWARDS:
There's not going to be a tax increase. There's going to be a --
SARA FAGEN:
There will be eventually.
DONNA EDWARDS:
A $600 child tax credit is going to make up for that.
CHUCK TODD:
The good news -- the good news is we get to come back and talk about this a little bit more. But before that, this is an excellent time for me to note that our latest episode of our news magazine Meet The Press Reports happens to be an in-depth look ahead at the 2022 midterms. So, more Senate races and gov races. It's available any time right now on Peacock, so go binge away. We'll be back in a moment with one world leader's thoughts about what it will take to fight climate change globally.
CHUCK TODD:
Welcome back. More than 40 countries at the Glasgow climate summit have agreed to phase out the use of coal, but among the countries, as you heard earlier, failing to sign the accord are three of the biggest coal users: China, India and, as we mentioned, the United States. I spoke with New Zealand's prime minister Jacinda Ardern, who's been criticized for not doing more in her country to reduce CO2 emissions, and asked whether she's willing to step up her country's climate mitigation efforts.
[BEGIN TAPE]
PRIME MINISTER JACINDA ARDERN:
We can't get ourselves into a situation where our action is reliant on the action of others, because who pays the price in that game, but all of us? Our position has always been we can't, we can’t hold our heads up on the world stage and call for action unless we demonstrate that leadership ourselves. And we have been amongst, as have many countries around the world, where over the past several decades not enough action has been taken. And so we are in a position now of undertaking quite a steep rise in our commitments. But we have said in our domestic laws, we have targeted that 1.5 degrees because that is what it will take to ensure that our Pacific neighbors have their livelihood. And so it's not enough to simply say, "We'll wait until everyone else does their bit." I've heard that argument. We have to do ours now, lest we all end up on a steep drop to the bottom.
[END TAPE]
CHUCK TODD:
Look, it’s been a busy week. I promise you there was a lot more to that interview. You can see the entire thing with Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern. It was done in conjunction with the group Covering Climate Now. It’s on our website MeetthePress.com. We get into a lot of things including China, climate and a little bit of United States politics. When we come back, how big a role did mandate fatigue play in Tuesday's elections? We’ll talk about it after the break.
CHUCK TODD:
We are back. “Donald who?” -- Sara, seemed to be the, at least kind of the take Rick Scott wanted to have there. He's walking a fine line and, you know, I think he was tip-toeing quite a bit.
SARA FAGEN:
Well, look, you know, he is the elephant in the room. He is the biggest figure in politics still today even out of office. But you know, I think in Virginia, Glenn Youngkin did a really good job of managing Donald Trump, which is to say, "I appreciate his endorsement. I welcome his endorsement. I'm honored by his endorsement, but I'm my own man and I'm, I’m running for my ideas. And here's what my ideas are. And I'm not talking about the past. I'm talking about the future." I do think another lesson for Republicans here, to the degree that any national committee can control these things, which is increasingly harder in American politics, is that candidates with sunny dispositions, who are behaviorally moderate, even if they're quite conservative on issues, that matters. It was very difficult for Terry McAuliffe to paint Glenn Youngkin as a Trumpkin because he didn't appear like Donald Trump. He didn't speak like Donald Trump and he didn't use the same language.
CHUCK TODD:
I used to say that Connie Mack, when he first got elected to Florida, he was to the right, further to right than the state, he was a conservative with a smile. And that mattered a lot. Donna, Trump as a weapon for Democrats, it did work in one spot, northern Virginia, but.
DONNA EDWARDS:
Well, I think that the lesson is you've got to be careful where you use it. And you know, there are going to be races all across the country and Trump is not going to be willing to be as quiet as he was presumably in Virginia in some of these other states and congressional districts. And so, I think that that is going to make it more difficult for Republicans to run against Donald Trump.
CHUCK TODD:
Joe Biden seems to fire up the Republican base right now better than Donald Trump fires up the Democratic base.
PETER BAKER:
He does, right?
CHUCK TODD:
I mean that, this is like a mirror image of 2017.
PETER BAKER:
Right, well, one thing, he's the incumbent, right? I mean, obviously that is a difference. Donald Trump is still a very active player. He is still the big player. He hasn't given up. It's not like he had gone into retirement like Obama or Bush or something like that. He wants to run again. So, of course he's going to be an issue. But Biden, you're right. Biden has proved to be a more polarizing figure than anybody would have imagined because he's not an unlikable person and he's not --
CHUCK TODD:
He was elected not to be polarizing.
PETER BAKER:
Exactly. And yet he has.
CHUCK TODD:
He won the primary because he wasn't polarizing.
PETER BAKER:
Right, which may say less about him than us right now, but he has definitely turned out to generate a lot of antipathy.
SARA FAGEN:
But I think part of that is there’s, there’s a dishonesty about Joe Biden's candidacy. And I think this is where Democrats fail to get it. He ran as a centrist and he is governing as a very, very progressive person. And I think for a lot of individuals, especially these rural voters, they look at that and they say, "I'm going to vote for Republicans at a higher rate because I don't like the dishonesty about it."
DONNA EDWARDS:
I don't think that's true at all. I mean, if you look back at the way Joe Biden ran his campaign, the messages that he talked about, the program that he talked about are all the things that he's governing on. Those are the things, and so it demonstrates to me that people actually care about progressive issues. It just depends on -- we need to make sure that we're characterizing them in the right kind of ways so that Americans take that in.
CHUCK TODD:
I want folks to think we're considering all options of what happened Tuesday. How much was mandate fatigue a part of this?
AMNA NAWAZ:
Mandate fatigue, Covid fatigue. I mean, I've said it before, Covid and the economy are two of the biggest issues for Virginia voters and nationwide and the two are inextricably linked. And that's why you see the Biden administration moving more aggressively now in trying to roll out more mandates, get millions more Americans vaccinated. I interviewed the Secretary of Labor this week and there's a direct link there. They want to get more shots in arms because they know it's directly related to the economy. Coming out of Virginia though, just to build off what Sara was saying, you know, one of the things that Youngkin offered was a path to calibrate that, the closeness to Donald Trump for future Republican candidates. People who don't like him personally but like him politically, this is how you run that campaign. And for Democrats ahead, the big message was you can't just rely on an anti-Trump message. So, when you're looking ahead to '22, the House is up for grabs, the Senate's up for grabs. You've got, like, 36 governorships up and the Democrats in eight or nine of those states won by smaller margins than Virginia, than they won Virginia. That's going to be a problem for them.
CHUCK TODD:
Sara, if Larry Hogan and Doug Ducey get enticed into this race, in these races, on paper they would be huge candidates in their two states unless Donald Trump decides to make them pay.
SARA FAGEN:
Well, and it's not clear that even if Donald Trump decided to make them pay that, particularly in a state like Maryland, that that --
CHUCK TODD:
In a Republican primary? With Republican voters?
SARA FAGEN:
Larry Hogan is one of the most popular governors in America --
CHUCK TODD:
I agree.
SARA FAGEN:
-- including still today. And so, I'm not certain that he couldn't win a Republican primary even if Donald Trump was aggressively campaigning against him.
CHUCK TODD:
Well, maybe we'll find out. Then again, I think there's other races in 2024 that Mr. Hogan might be interested in. As we go, another reminder, by the way, we have tickets right now are on sale for the Meet The Press Film Festival at AFI Fest. It's in L.A. this year. It's a lot of fun. Tickets are available at Fest.AFI.com. I'll see you out there myself. That's all for today. Thank you for watching. We'll be back next week because if it's Sunday, it's Meet The Press.