Video: Blind justice

msnbc.com
updated 12/2/2005 1:09:11 PM ET 2005-12-02T18:09:11
TRANSCRIPT

Five years ago, Carey McWilliams became the first completely blind person ever to obtain a concealed weapons permit in this country.  McWilliams passed the required written and shooting tests in his home state of North Dakota. 

McWilliams joined 'Siutation' Host Tucker Carlson Thursday to discuss his amazing feat and fear of the lax gun laws in North Dakota. 

To read an excerpt of their conversation, continue to the text below. To watch the video, click on the "Launch" button to the right.

TUCKER CARLSON, HOST, ‘SITUATION’:  I should tell our viewers that I received a letter from you two weeks ago, which is how we came to know of you, and why I wanted to meet you so much.  Complaining, saying I am a totally blind marksman, I have a concealed weapons permit, but I am horrified, you wrote, about the lax gun laws in your state of North Dakota.  You are worried that people who should not have concealed weapons permits are getting them, is that right? 

CAREY MCWILLIAMS, BLIND MAN WITH GUN PERMIT:  Yes.  The legislature went ahead and, without consulting me at all, just decided that if a lowly blind person can pass their shooting exam, which I have heard from the police officers that were around me when I was shooting, they said that they dread that kind of test.  Even though I passed that, they were just going to toss it, and throw it away, and then everybody and their brother-in-law can just pretty much show up and don’t know anything about firearms, but feeling macho that day, they just show their driver’s license, and there they are. 

CARLSON:  So the idea was, in the legislature, that if a blind man could pass the shooting test, the shooting test isn’t worth much.  But how did you pass the shooting test, since you are blind? 

MCWILLIAMS:  Well, I had plenty of training.  At age 14, I shot an M-16 as part of an Air Force auxiliary unit, at an Army National Guard base, and then later at 18, I went ahead and took a course through the Army ROTC, and I received an A in basic pistol marksmanship. 

CARLSON:  Yes. 

MCWILLIAMS:  And I have that up on my Web site, www.careymcwilliams.com, and hopefully that will prove it. 

CARLSON:  Well, it sounds, you know, indisputable that you passed the test, but if you can’t see the target, how do you know you are hitting the target and not a crowd of people, say? 

MCWILLIAMS:  Well, it’s the same way that snipers in the military work.  Anti-sniper patrols are, of course, going to try to get a sniper who wants to remain hidden to pick off soldiers, so, therefore, they have to operate guns, and so forth, without being able to see their target.  And the way I do it is I use body positioning and gravity, which are always constant to everybody.  And then I also use basic sound, if I can get it, would be fine, but I visualize the target in my mind, and I can actually see it then in front of my eyes, and I visualize where the gun is in relation to the target.  And with that, I was able to place 10 out of 10 in a half-silhouette from seven yards away. 

CARLSON:  That is amazing.  You have a concealed weapons permit.  Do you carry a concealed weapon? 

MCWILLIAMS:  Yes, most of the time I do.  .38 special.  I also defend my home with a 12-gauge shotgun and shoot AK-47s on occasion. 

CARLSON:  Do people know that you are carrying the .38, and where do you bring it?  When you go to the store or go to church? 

MCWILLIAMS:  Well, I just bring it—no, no, you can’t—it’s illegal to carry anywhere in the restricted areas—the churches, the ,schools bars—but I am not a big fan of bars.  I don’t go to school, and when I go to church, I don’t see any need to bring a gun when I have God on my side. 

CARLSON:  Yeah.  All right.  Carey McWilliams, have you ever pulled it on anyone? 

MCWILLIAMS:  I have had some instances where I have had to make sure that it’s there and stuff, but basically the whole issue, the reason why I sent you the letter in the first place is because governments shouldn’t be allowed to use stereotypical bigotry to go ahead and make their arguments to change laws based upon their personal agendas. 

CARLSON:  Right.  I see your point, though.  I must say in defense of the state of North Dakota, I bet there are not too many other blind people who could pass the shooting exam.  But you are obviously the exception. 

Watch 'The Situation with Tucker Carlson' each weeknight at 11 p.m. ET

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