updated 4/27/2010 9:14:06 AM ET 2010-04-27T13:14:06

Guests: J.D. Hayworth, Loretta Sanchez, Bernie Sanders, Jim Wallis, Bill

Press, Ron Christie, Tim Minton, Rep. Bruce Braley, Mark Hatfield.

HOST:  Good evening, Americans, and welcome to THE ED SHOW

tonight from New York.

These stories are hitting my hot buttons tonight. 

A militia leader in Arizona is looking for veterans with kill records

to police the border?  I think Arizona‘s new anti-immigration law

encourages this kind of vigilante action.  But, of course, the right-

wingers, they love it. 

I‘ll face off with J.D. Hayworth, the Republican challenging John

McCain in Arizona.  We‘ll talk to him in just a moment. 

A striking snapshot on just how tough this economy is.  In New York,

hundreds of people camped outside a local union office just to get an

application to be an elevator repairman?  They camped out. 

Plus, I‘ll take on a Georgia lawmaker who says he‘s not a Birther even

though he‘s trying to legally force the president to show his birth

certificate.  It seems to be the hot wave across the country.

This is the story that‘s got me fired up tonight, folks.  I guess you

could say it‘s the Wild Wild West.  Well, it‘s alive and well in Arizona. 

The immigration bill signed by Republican Governor Jan Brewer has set

off a firestorm of controversy.  Congressman Raul Grijalva shut his

district office down in two cities in Arizona this weekend because of death

threats.  Arizona militiaman Bill Davis told KOLD Channel 5 News he is

recruiting “combat veterans, with kill records, to camp out and patrol

along the U.S./Mexico border.”

Don‘t be fooled.  The dangerous rhetoric that is spreading in Arizona

can be found in the rest of the country right now. 

In Texas, Governor Rick Perry teamed up with Glenn Beck this weekend

and said that anti-Obama conservatives are an army that can take their

country back?  I want to know who they‘re taking their country back from. 

Now, thankfully, some elected officials in Arizona are responding to

the immigration bill in a more productive way.  Phoenix Mayor Phil Gordon

has asked the city council in that city to direct the attorney to “prepare

a lawsuit asking for an injunction on this law and challenge it on

constitutional grounds.”

But the protests outside the state capitol, well I think they‘re kind

of getting out of hand.  Investigators found refried beans smeared in the

shape of swastikas on doors of the House and Senate Capitol buildings. 

Beans were also used to right “AZ Equals Nazi” on a nearby sidewalk. 

There really is no excuse for this stuff, is there? 

But keep this in mind.  The state legislatures is the same group of

people that just passed a Birther bill and a new gun law that allows anyone

besides convicted felons to carry concealed weapons without registration,

without background checks?  You‘ll see laws like this all over America if

the Tea Partiers get their way. 

The president is trying to make sure the country doesn‘t go to hell in

a hand basket, and he turned political on this.  He turned to his base and

said this in a video today -- 

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES:  This year, the stakes

are higher than ever.  It will be up to each of you to make sure that the

young people, African-American, Latinos, and women who powered our victory

in 2008 stand together once again. 

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ:  I done know if the country‘s in the mood for a campaign

pitch right now.  The timing of this is rather strange. 

President Obama needs to address this in a big way.  And I see it this

way.  Let‘s see, we surged in Iraq.  We‘re surging in Afghanistan. 

Isn‘t it time to have, maybe, an American surge on American soil, Mr.

President? 

If we‘ve got 30,000 more troops for Afghanistan, we should put at

least half that many on the United States/Mexican border.  Let the Guard do

what they do, guard the nation.  Our best and brightest could seal this

border, what, maybe in a manner of weeks? 

Senator McCain, isn‘t it time to put country first?  Where are you? 

We‘ve thrown hundreds of billions of dollars at war, but now it‘s time

to, I think, do the same thing in this country.  This is a war that‘s going

on down there, folks.  It‘s a war against hardworking Americans who are

losing their jobs to undocumented workers. 

Once we seal the border, we need to find a way to bring these folks

out of the shadows and crack down on the real criminals.  And that‘s the

folks who are writing the checks because they‘re going for cheap labor. 

There‘s nothing American about stabbing labor right in the back for some

cheap illegal workers. 

We need to treat this as a real threat, which it is.  It‘s time to put

America first, and I say surge on the Arizona/Mexican border.  And if the

Mexicans don‘t like if, what are we supposed to do, just be overrun by

this?  I don‘t think that‘s the answer. 

Get your cell phones out.  No—before we do that, I just want to be

very clear.  We can be very compassionate on our side of the border.  But

what all administrations have done in the past by letting the borders just

stay wide open—and granted, President Obama, he has doubled the ATF, he

has doubled DEA, but I‘m talking military. 

I mean, if this is a threat to our economy, if it‘s a threat to our

security, then we‘ve got to move on this.  And I‘m not quite sure that a

campaign pitch to Latinos and African-Americans really—the timing of all

of that, I‘m wondering about it. 

All right.  Now you can get your cell phones out.  I‘ll get mine out,

too.  I want to know what you think about this.

Tonight‘s text survey question is: Would you want the U.S. to put

military troops on the U.S./Mexico border? 

Text “A” for yes, text “B” for no to 622639.  We‘ll bring you the

results later on in the show. 

Joining me now is former Arizona Congressman J.D. Hayworth.  He‘s the

Republican candidate for Senate, challenging Senator John McCain. 

Mr. Hayworth, good to have you with us.  I‘ve never had you on the

program before.  I appreciate your time. 

Where do you stand on this law that‘s been passed?  Is this the right

direction, the correct direction for Arizona to go? 

J.D. HAYWORTH ®, ARIZONA SENATORIAL CANDIDATE:  Well, Ed, first of

all, thank you for the invitation. 

And you and I begin with a point agreement, because the bill I wrote

and introduced in the U.S. House five years ago, the Enforcement First Act,

absolutely provides for putting our standing military on our international

border with Mexico.  So we start with that point of agreement. 

Now the Senate Bill 1070 here in Arizona.  And quite frankly Arizona

acted because Washington, D.C., has failed to act.  And, yes, the people of

Arizona completely within bounds doing this, because when the federal

government fails to act, the states have a perfect right to step up and

protect their own interests and protect their own people, and that‘s what

SB 1070 does. 

SCHULTZ:  Here‘s what bothers me about 1070, Mr. Hayworth, is that a

domino effect takes place.  Now in Arizona you can get a gun without a

background check. 

I mean, is that logical?  Is that sensible?  Is this the right way to

go? 

HAYWORTH:  Well, Ed, first of all, please call me J.D. 

And as we take a look at our Second Amendment rights, let‘s point out

the fact that Arizona now has in place a law that is similar to what is on

the books in Alaska, and in, dare we call it, the progressive state of

Vermont.  So this is a situation where Arizona stands up for the Second

Amendment.  I mean, right now you can wear your holster openly in Arizona,

and so—or previously, so this no new law simply allows you to wear it

under your coat.  There‘s really a distinction without a difference, dare I

say.

SCHULTZ:  What do you make of this gentleman that is openly speaking

about recruiting sharp shooters who have got registered kills to guard the

border?  You—J.D, you go along with that? 

HAYWORTH:  No, I disagree with that.  I agree with the notion that we

shut put our military on the border.  In fact, history can be our guide. 

Early in the 20th century—

SCHULTZ:  How many military people would it take to do what has to be

done in Arizona? 

HAYWORTH:  You know, Ed, I‘m not a tactical officer.  I‘d leave that

to the military. 

My opponent, who has undergone a campaign-year conversion to border

security, talks about 3,000 National Guardsmen.  Of course, the fine point

the fine print in his 10-point plan says they don‘t have to be on the

border until 2015.  That‘s way too late.  We need them now. 

I guess 3,000 is a good starting point.  I would probably round it up

to 5,000. 

I think the fact is this, Ed—we have only about half as many border

patrol agents for our borders north and south as New York City does

policemen.  Something‘s wrong with this picture.  We need to have security,

and this is where you and I agree.  We need to put our military on the

border to supplement the border patrol. 

SCHULTZ:  I don‘t think any legislation is going to do anything until

you address the border.  You need to be vigilant at the border, and then we

need to be compassionate and reasonable on our side of the border.  That‘s

how I view it. 

But I also think that a lot of this, Mr. Hayworth, comes from the

dislike of the president of the United States, the whole Birther thing. 

Come on.  He was born in the United States.  I feel like we‘re taking a

step backwards. 

What do you think? 

HAYWORTH:  Oh, sure.  Look, as far as I‘m concerned, trying to

invalidate Mr. Obama‘s election and call into question his birth

certificate strikes me as esoteric as the debate that still rages in some

historical circles as to the exact geographical birthplace of Chester Alan

Arthur. 

Mr. Obama is the president of the United States.  I have plenty of

disagreements with him, including how to handle the border. 

And with reference to the so-called Birther issue, here‘s my take on

the bill that was brought up in front of the Arizona legislature.  Well, I

think it‘s passed the House. 

SCHULTZ:  It passed in the House.

HAYWORTH:  I don‘t think it‘s passed yet.  It hasn‘t passed in the

Senate.

SCHULTZ:  Yes.

HAYWORTH:  It passed in the House.  Here‘s my point—it‘s too

narrowly drawn.

Listen, right now we‘re asking voters to present their own IDs to be

able to vote.  Now, if we‘re going to ask that for voters, shouldn‘t we ask

that of every candidate on the ballot for every job on the state ballot?  I

believe that‘s a reasonable step.

SCHULTZ:  A quick answer.  Are you going to beat John McCain?

HAYWORTH:  You bet I am.  I‘m closing within five points. 

SCHULTZ:  All right.  J.D., good to have you with us tonight.  Thanks

so much.  Come back on the program any time. 

HAYWORTH:  Thanks.  The Web site is JDforSenate.com. 

SCHULTZ:  All right.  Appreciate your time. 

Let‘s get the other side of the story.  Let‘s turn to California

Congresswoman Loretta Sanchez. 

Congresswoman, nice to have you us tonight. 

Now, tell us, what do you take issue with what Mr. Hayworth said? 

REP. LORETTA SANCHEZ (D), CALIFORNIA:  Well, I agree we need to work

on securing our borders.  And as one of the chair people who worked for the

border committee, was the chairperson of that, that‘s exactly what we‘ve

done. 

We have increased the number of ATF people that we have.  We have

increased the DEA at the border.  The biggest problem at the southern

border happens to be drugs, by the way. 

We also increased our patrols, our Customs and Border Patrol.  We‘ve

more than doubled those.  So for people who—

SCHULTZ:  Is it enough?  Is it enough? 

SANCHEZ:  Well, you can only grow an organization so fast.  For

example, 50 percent of my patrollers, my Customs and Border Patrol, have

less than two years on the job. 

SCHULTZ:  Well, the point I was making in my commentary was that we

have no problem sending a surge and have that happening in Iraq, beefing up

30,000 people in Afghanistan. 

Where are the troops if there‘s a drug war going on, if we‘re talking

about security?  Where‘s the military?  Would you go along with a military

call to action on the border down there? 

SANCHEZ:  Well, I also happen to sit on the Armed Services Committee. 

And I will tell you that we haven‘t rested our troops.  Our troops have

been four or five or six times deployed between Iraq and Afghanistan. 

And now, with the president sending 30,000 more troops to Afghanistan,

which, by the way, I disagree with—I didn‘t agree to going into Iraq

either.  And I think in the long run, we‘ll have seen that as one of the

biggest follies that America could have done. 

SCHULTZ:  So are you saying we don‘t have the resources to put the

military on the border? 

SANCHEZ:  We don‘t have the resources.  We have some National Guards

people.  We‘ve put them before.  For example, California sent something

down, like, ,2,500 or 3,000. 

What they did was to free up the jobs, the administrative type of

jobs, for our law enforcement, our border patrol, to go out and patrol the

area more.  But the bigger problem we have, it‘s not these people coming

across looking for jobs.  The big problem we have are the drug cartels. 

SCHULTZ:  Well, that‘s why the military should intervene. 

SANCHEZ:  And on that it‘s a big possibility that we should use the

military.  We just have to be smart.  And we have to do it in conjunction

with the Mexican government, not without their knowledge. 

SCHULTZ:  All right.  Well, you know, we‘re fighting the opium problem

in Afghanistan.  I don‘t know why we can‘t fight the drug problem, the

infiltration that‘s taking place on the border down there. 

SANCHEZ:  I agree with you.

SCHULTZ:  Congresswoman, good to have you with us tonight.  Thanks so

much.

SANCHEZ:  Thank you.  Thank you, Ed. 

SCHULTZ:  Coming up, Limbaugh took a page out of O‘Reilly‘s playbook

today and started whining about the plight of white folks in this country. 

That lands him, of course, in the “Zone.” 

Plus, the Republicans are trying to scare the heck out of us again. 

Wait until you see what a bunch of governors on the Republican side are

spreading around the Internet. 

And the vice president‘s foot in mouth disease may have had a relapse. 

I‘ll tell you what he said.

You‘re watching THE ED SHOW on MSNBC.  Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCHULTZ:  Welcome back to THE ED SHOW.  And thanks for watching

tonight. 

Well, it looks like Waterloo is back.  Just moments ago, Senate

Republicans, well, they had the chance to move forward on a financial

reform will that would crack down on Wall Street‘s worst abuses.  What did

the Republicans do?  What they do so well.  They obstructed. 

The Republican senators, they lined up to block debate on the bill. 

And this just in, shocking news.  Nebraska Senator Ben Nelson, he also

voted no with the righties. 

They are against what the American people want.  That‘s the only way

you can see this, folks. 

A new “Washington Post” poll today showed 63 percent of Americans

support tougher Wall Street regulation, the kind of regulation that is in

this bill. 

Joining me now is Bernie Sanders, Independent senator from Vermont. 

For the record, the vote was 57-41.  Two Republicans did not vote

today, Bennett and Bond. 

Senator, what does this mean? 

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I), VERMONT:  Well, it means what you‘ve

indicated.  The Republican Party is the party of no.  They‘re the party of

obstructionism. 

And here you have a situation, Ed, where the greed and recklessness

and illegal behavior of Wall Street has resulted in millions of Americans

losing their jobs and their homes.  People are outraged.  They want action,

and the Republicans say no. 

I hope they reconsider, but our job is to go forward and provide real,

real Wall Street reform for the American people. 

SCHULTZ:  What are they hung up on?  Is it just beating President

Obama, not giving him the victory on Wall Street reform?  What are they

hung up on, Bernie? 

SANDERS:  Well, that‘s half of it, Ed.  But let‘s not be naive. 

During deregulation, during that process, Wall Street and their

friends spent $5 billion over a 10-year period in order to get what they

want.  Last year, they spent over $300 million. 

We are taking on the most powerful people in the world, and these CEOs

do not roll over easy.  They‘ve got a lot of money, they‘ve got a lot of

influence, and they certainly will use it. 

But, Ed, what I do want to say is we go forward, and I believe we will

go forward, on Wall Street reform.  What we want to make sure is we‘re not

just passing something for the sake of passing something.  We‘re passing

something real.  Real. 

SCHULTZ:  Well, how real is reconciliation?  I mean, here we go again. 

I mean, the righties are in the way.  They don‘t want to move on Wall

Street now. 

Can we go reconciliation?  Can the Senate go reconciliation on this

kind of legislation? 

SANDERS:  Well, we will see.  If I‘m not mistaken, in the coming days

you‘re going to find some Republicans looking over their shoulders and

saying, you know what?  People back home want me to do something. 

SCHULTZ:  Yes.  Well, speaking—

SANDERS:  Yes, go ahead. 

SCHULTZ:  Speaking of people back home, 59 percent of the American

people, according to that “Washington Post”/ABC News poll, want more

government oversight on consumer loans and credit cards.  And also, they

were asked, “Do you trust the regulation to Wall Street?”  Who do you

trust?  President Obama, 52 percent; Republicans, 35 percent. 

SANDERS:  Well, let me say something on this credit card business,

because we‘re going to offer an amendment.  It‘s a pretty simple amendment. 

SCHULTZ:  Yes. 

SANDERS:  It says that we have to end usury and outrageous interest

rates on credit cards in the United States.  Fifteen percent max, which is

what credit unions now exist under. 

Second thing, Ed, in my view, we have got to go beyond Dodd.  And what

we have got to do is understand that when you have four major financial

institutions who have $7 trillion in assets, more than half of the GDP in

America, you know what you‘ve got to do, Ed?  You‘ve got to break them up. 

That‘s what you‘ve got to do. 

SCHULTZ:  And the Republicans will never go for that. 

SANDERS:  Yes.  A couple of them are talking about it.  We will see

when push comes to shove whether they will vote for that. 

The other thing we‘ve got to do of real significance is transparency

at the Fed.  You can‘t give away trillions of dollars to financial

institutions and not tell the American people who got it. 

SCHULTZ:  Yes.

Senator, great to have you with us tonight.  Thanks so much. 

SANDERS:  Good to be with you.

SCHULTZ:  Bernie Sanders from Vermont. 

Absolutely. 

Coming up, “The Drugster” has outdone himself.  This time, he‘s

accusing President Obama‘s racist regime of failing to reconnect with white

people.  You know where that lands him—right in the “Zone.” 

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCHULTZ:  And in “Psycho Talk” tonight, “The Drugster” shows us that

in his lily white world, there is such a thing as a dumb question.  Here he

is on his radio show today. 

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RUSH LIMBAUGH, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST:  I have a couple of questions,

Ladies and Gentlemen, as I always do after listening to our young president

speak. 

So, Obama seeks to reconnect with young people, with African-

Americans, with Latinos and with women.  Why does Obama not seek to

reconnect with white people?  Why does Obama say he doesn‘t want to reach

out to older white males?  Why doesn‘t he say that he wants to reach out to

white women? 

This is a question. 

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ:  Well, those old white men really are historically an

underserved group, aren‘t they?  He might as well be asking why there isn‘t

a White History Month. 

Rush is completely out of touch on this one again.  He actually

reminds me of another clueless right-wing media big shot. 

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BILL O‘REILLY, FOX NEWS:  It‘s a much more interesting country,

America, if we stop with the race business, I think.  I mean, I‘m not

black, so I don‘t know your struggle.  And you don‘t know my struggle.  All

right?  Because you‘re not white. 

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ:  Oh, you‘ve had so many struggles Mr. O‘Reilly. 

Rush and O‘Reilly have never ventured out of their old, upper class

white world, have they?  So, when they try and talk about race relations,

it just comes out “Psycho Talk.” 

Coming up, Reverend Jim Wallis says Arizona‘s immigration crackdown

makes it illegal to love thy neighbor.  Men and women of the cloth are

vowing to break the law regardless of consequences. 

And the vice president just made a bold prediction that hundreds of

thousands of new jobs are on the horizon.  I sure hope so.  I hope that‘s

the case, especially for the people who were camping outside just to apply

for one job. 

All that, plus I‘m putting the Georgia Birther in my hot seat. 

You‘re watching THE ED SHOW on MSNBC.  Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCHULTZ:  And welcome back to THE ED SHOW tonight.  This is the

Battleground Issue.  Many of the men and women tasked with teaching God‘s

law are rejecting the new law of the land in Arizona.  The state‘s harsh

new anti-immigration measures make it a crime to hire or even transport an

illegal immigrant.  Today, the bishop of Tucson announced that he plans to

ask the Catholic Church to officially sign on to a lawsuit challenging the

bill. 

In the meantime, Evangelical leader Jim Wallis vows that churches will

not comply with a law they think is anti-Christian.  Wallis says, quote,

“the law signed by Arizona Governor Brewer is a social and racial sin. 

Enforcement without reform of the system is merely cruel.  Enforcement

without compassion is immoral.  Enforcement that breaks up families is

unacceptable.  The law will make it illegal to love your neighbor in

Arizona and force us to disobey Jesus and his gospel.  We will not comply.” 

Reverend Wallis, president of Sojourners, joins me here on THE ED SHOW

tonight.  He‘s also the author of the great book “Rediscovering Values on

Wall Street, Main Street, and Your Street.”  Reverend, good to have you on

tonight.  

REV. JIM WALLIS, PRESIDENT, SOJOURNERS:  Good to be back, Ed.  

SCHULTZ:  What does this mean?  Does this mean that you‘re ready to

get arrested?  That we‘re going to see priests and nuns and people of the

cloth, Evangelicals—Reverend Sharpton says he‘s going to go down there

and protest.  What are we going to see here? 

WALLIS:  Well, this law may force Christians to obey the law or follow

their scriptures.  It‘s really simple as that.  I was out there last week,

and there were people, Christians who were caring for vulnerable people. 

That could be harboring and transporting undocumented people.  And so

people—they were terrified.  Raids were coming and they were afraid to

go to work, afraid to stay home.  So they went to the church.  That‘s where

they found sanctuary.  

SCHULTZ:  This means—you‘re saying that church folks are not going

to back off?  Clergy is not going to back off, that they‘re going to help

people no matter what their situation is.  And if they get in trouble with

the law, that‘s just the way it‘s going to be? 

WALLIS:  You can‘t make Christian ministry and Christian compassion

illegal and expect Christians to obey the law.  I said last week on your

show, I suspect this might happen.  Sure enough, today, I got a statement

from young pastors all over Arizona saying, we‘re not going to obey this

law if it prevents us from doing what God‘s calling us to do. 

So Arizona has created a moral crisis.  My hope is, Ed, it leads to a

national conversation and it shows us we need comprehensive immigration

reform.  The system is broken.  Let‘s all come to the table, Republicans

and Democrats.  Let‘s fix this broken system so we don‘t have this terrible

crisis.  They can‘t put pastors in jail for caring for vulnerable people. 

They‘re going to have to.  

SCHULTZ:  Reverend, what do you say about people that are coming

across the border without regard to law, the drug trafficking that‘s taking

place, the violence that‘s taking place.  Those are sins that are being

committed.  Would you be in favor of military action to beef up the border

and security? 

WALLIS:  You know, I met a woman in Phoenix last week, and she,

indeed, came across the border illegally as an infant on the back of her

farm worker father 47 years ago.  And now she‘s taking care of other

undocumented people.  We certainly should arrest her.  She‘s seriously a

national security threat.  Or the nurse practitioner who I met in a clinic

who serve only uninsured people.  Of course, she‘s here undocumented. 

She‘s a blond haired, blue-eyed Evangelical.  We certainly should arrest

her.

Let‘s be tough on drug cartels, drug smuggling, absolutely.  But

that‘s not what we‘re talking about here.  We‘re talking about people who

have been there a long time.  Let‘s find a way to fix a broken system in a

fair and compassionate and a common sense kind of way.  That‘s all we‘re

asking for.  I‘m not—let‘s not pick on the wrong people here.  Let‘s fix

a broken—let‘s come together at the table, now.  We‘ve seen Arizona.  We

don‘t want this to change our nation, make us a different kind of nation,

different kind of people.  We don‘t want to be that kind of nation.  Let‘s

fix this now before we do things we‘ll regret.  

SCHULTZ:  Reverend Wallis, always a pleasure.   Great to have you with

us tonight.

WALLIS:  Great to be here.  Thanks for doing the story, Ed.  

SCHULTZ:  You bet.  Thank you.  

Now let‘s get some rapid fire response from our panel on these stories

tonight.  The Republican Governor‘s Association has a creepy new web ad

that promises to remember November, a slogan that refers to British

terrorist Guy Fawkes, who tried to assassinate the country‘s leader and

blow up its parliament.  

Arkansas Lieutenant Governor Bill Halter got his first chance to

confront Senator Blanche Lincoln in their first primary debate this

weekend.  Democrats got the chance to see how progressive Halter really is.  

It‘s getting ugly in Arizona.  Our panel responds to the massive

outcry against the state‘s harsh new anti-immigration law. 

Joining us tonight, Bill Press, nationally syndicated radio talk show

host, and Ron Christie, Republican strategist.  Ron, let‘s start with you

first.  What do you make of really the faith community standing up, saying

that they will not abide by this Arizona law?  What are we headed for? 

RON CHRISTIE, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST:  I‘m a little troubled, Ed.  I

have a lot of respect and admiration for those in the cloth and the

services that they administer, but we are a nation of laws.  The United

States, in fact, has our basis in law.  I get very nervous when people say

they‘re going to flout the law of the land.  I don‘t like that.  

BILL PRESS, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST:  Ed? 

SCHULTZ:  Go ahead.  

PRESS:  Remember the civil rights movement, Ron?  You cannot force

Christians, you cannot force people of any faith to obey an immoral law. 

That‘s what Jim Wallis is saying.  I think he‘s absolutely right.  This law

would require people to repudiate everything that the scripture says about

--

SCHULTZ:  This is the civil rights in the ‘60s all over again.  

PRESS:  Absolutely.  Absolutely. 

SCHULTZ:  People getting arrested.  You don‘t believe that, Ron? 

CHRISTIE:  No, I don‘t.  The civil rights issue in the 1960s was

looking at people.  People were being beaten.  People being held back. 

People were being denied education due to the color of their skin.  Let us

not forget, gentlemen, that people who are here in this country illegally

have access to emergency services.  They have access to schools.  They have

access to health care. 

So I‘m not going to sit here and listen to those who try to denigrate

what‘s going on in Arizona and equate that to the ‘60s. 

SCHULTZ:  Ron, you‘re not going to sit here and listen—you‘re not

threatening to walk off the show now? 

CHRISTIE:  I would never do that to you, Ed.  

SCHULTZ:  You would do that at Fox.  Don‘t do that here.  We‘re the

good guys over here, Ron.  

CHRISTIE:  That‘s why I love playing with you guys.  

PRESS:  Ron, read the law.  What this law requires—requires the

police to go after people simply because of the color of their skin. 

SCHULTZ:  How do you get around that, Ron?

PRESS:  That is wrong.  That‘s un-American.  

CHRISTIE:  Let me put this in two frames.  I absolutely agree with the

intent of this law.  I think it was drafted with the right intent. 

However, I am very nervous—and you guys know I‘m a lawyer.  The Supreme

Court is very, very hesitant to allow statutes to stay in effect when race

is one of the components.  I do not see—it will be interesting to see in

the next two months how the governor of Arizona proclaims that she will put

set forth a set of regulations that will allow this law to be administered

in a race-neutral manner.  If it‘s not, I‘ll be the first one to say here

we do not need people pulled over due to the color of their skin.  That‘s

wrong.  

SCHULTZ:  Reasonable suspicion leaves the door wide open for law

enforcement mistakes.  I‘m really troubled that the governor of Arizona

says now we‘re going to have training courses for law enforcement people on

how to figure out how to deal with this. 

Gentlemen, let‘s go to Arizona.  Here‘s a sound bite from Lieutenant

Governor—we don‘t have that?  Do we have that?  OK.  Let‘s play that

one.  Here it is.  Governor—Lieutenant Governor Halter in the debate

with Blanche Lincoln this weekend. 

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BILL HALTER, LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR OF ARIZONA:  The fact is that I

wouldn‘t have voted to deregulate Wall Street in the first place, which

Senator Lincoln did in 1999.  I also would not be simultaneously regulating

an industry and then going out and soliciting campaign contributions from

it.  I asked Senator Lincoln to give back the contribution that Goldman

Sachs made to her campaign because they are currently under SEC

investigation for fraud.  I think it‘s unseemly to be simultaneously

raising money from the very folks that you‘re supposed to regulate,

particularly when those folks wrecked our economy.  

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ:  Bill Press, how does that play? 

PRESS:  What‘s wrong with that?  I think he‘s right on.  Look, Ed,

it‘s tough to unseat an incumbent.  If anybody can do it this year, Bill

Halter can do it.

SCHULTZ:  Is he left enough? 

PRESS:  Well, for Arkansas, he‘s probably left enough.  He‘s not left

enough for me.  You know what?  She‘s a nice lady, Ed.  This is a race

between a real Democrat and a Democrat in name only. 

SCHULTZ:  What do you think, Ron? 

CHRISTIE:  I actually agree with bill.  I find it very troubling that

an individual who has regulatory ability or the ability to write statutes

is soliciting funds from Goldman Sachs.  Although, I will put my Republican

jab here and say President Obama received nearly a million dollars from

Goldman Sachs.  He‘s pushing financial regulatory reform.  He won‘t give

the money back.  There shouldn‘t be a double standard.  These people should

not take that money if they are directly in a position to regulate the

industry.  

SCHULTZ:  Gentlemen, good to have you with us tonight.  Thank you. 

Ron Christie, Bill Press with us tonight.  

Coming up, we have a huge problem in the Gulf of Mexico.  The Coast

Guards‘ all clear—that statement was wrong.  Thousands of gallons of oil

are gushing from the rig that just sank off of Texas.  Now, we could have a

catastrophe on our hands.  That‘s next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCHULTZ:  In my playbook tonight, Vice President Joe Biden made a

risky prediction at a fund-raiser on Friday.  He said between 100,000 and

200,000 jobs would be created next month and soon the economy would be

adding up to 500,000 jobs a month.  Well, today White House Press Secretary

Robert Gibbs indicated that the vice president may have exaggerated it a

bit. 

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  Mr. Biden, last Friday in Pennsylvania, predicted

job growth next month 100,000 to 200,000.  Does that sound about right? 

ROBERT GIBBS, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY:  He‘s an optimistic man. 

That‘s why we like him. 

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  He further said 500,000 in the next couple of

months.

GIBBS:  See previous statement. 

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ:  Well, little mix-up with the memo on that one, wasn‘t it? 

The president‘s economic report released in February predicts that

employers will add an average of 95,000 jobs a month this year.  But folks

across the country are hoping that the vice president is correct with his

prediction.  A lot of people are desperate for work.  In New York City this

weekend, hundreds of people camped out—camped out for a chance just to

interview for an apprenticeship in elevator repair.  Investigative reporter

Tim Minton from New York‘S NBC affiliate WNBC has more.  

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TIM MINTON, WNBC CORRESPONDENT (voice-over):  The urban camp out began

Friday morning, with dozens pitching tents prepared to invest a long

weekend for the shot at a career opportunity.  Local Three of the Elevator

Mechanics Union put the word out they would interview the first 750 in line

starting this morning. 

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  Family members bringing us food.  Bringing games,

things to keep us occupied.  

MINTON:  What do you think your chances are once you get in the door

of getting a job? 

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  My chances are better than not coming here. 

MINTON:  Even the tent city winners, those on 36th Street close enough

to the front of the line to get interviewed, face long-shot odds.  Fewer

than one in seven of those interviewed will actually be offered jobs. 

The odds are a long shot, right? 

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  Yeah, pretty long.  Hopefully the odds play out,

though. 

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  Any time a union is involved I think you think

security.  And that‘s a key issue right now, something everyone‘s looking

for.  

MINTON:  But with New York‘s unemployment touching 10 percent last

month, even a chance for an elevator mechanic apprenticeship that pays over

14 dollars an hour is apparently worth the wait. 

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  Only get an opportunity like this once.  So got to

take advantage of it.  

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  Otherwise he‘d have to go to college and hopefully

get a job after that.  The way the economy is, who knows what‘s down the

road.  This is a good opportunity for him to get in a great field, you

know, and make a career out of it.  

MINTON:  New hope today for so many hoping to rebound.  

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  I want a job.  There‘s no jobs out there and we

need a job. 

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SCHULTZ:  Joining me now is Democratic Congressman Bruce Braley from

Iowa.  He founded the Populist Caucus in the House of Representatives. 

Congressman, that videotape looks pretty tough.  What‘s it look like in the

middle of the country? 

REP. BRUCE BRALEY (D), IOWA:  Well, the president‘s going to find out

tomorrow when he makes three stops in my state of Iowa, Ed.  I‘ve been

calling on him to get out of the White House and get out with working

Americans who have lost their jobs, lost their homes, and lost their

businesses.  And so he‘s going to get a sense of what it‘s like back in the

Heartland, where unemployment is lower than what was figures were you heard

in New York, but still way too high. 

And that‘s why we really need a focused and comprehensive jobs

strategy, looking at how we got to where we are and how we‘re going to

create jobs going forward.  And that‘s why the Populist Caucus, the

Progressive Caucus, and the Trade Working Group introduced our jobs

platform last week to do just that. 

SCHULTZ:  Doesn‘t there have to be, congressman, some kind of an

Apollo Project when it comes to innovation, when it comes to manufacturing? 

These are healthy men who are ready to get after it, willing to camp out

just to have a chance at an interview.  I mean—

BRALEY:  Absolutely.  Absolutely, ed.  

SCHULTZ:  What can we do about this?  Isn‘t there anything we can make

in this country? 

BRALEY:  No, you hit the nail on the head.  One of the cornerstone

pieces of our jobs platform is a national manufacturing strategy.  They

have this in the European Union because they know, and we know in our core

being, that this country cannot continue to produce the types of jobs and

economic opportunity without a strong manufacturing base, which we‘ve seen

move increasingly overseas.  That has to stop.  We have to level the

playing field for U.S. manufacturers and the employees who work for them. 

SCHULTZ:  I tell you, it‘s going to be brutal when the Stimulus

Package money runs out and if those guys are still standing in this room—

standing in that line, don‘t you think the Democrats are going to pay a

price if that‘s the way it is? 

BRALE:  Well, if we don‘t do something about what happened to get us

in this predicament, by holding Wall Street accountable and making them pay

for the recovery on Main Street, that‘s exactly right.  That‘s why our

Let‘s Have Wall Street Pay for Main Street proposal to put an incremental

transaction fee on excessive stock trading, and use that money for job

creation and deficit reduction has to be a part of that solution.  

SCHULTZ:  Congressman, good to have you with us tonight.  Thanks so

much and thanks for getting the president to go out in the middle of the

country.  Appreciate your time.  

Couple final pages in my playbook tonight.  President Obama visited

West Virginia Sunday to pay tribute to the 29 miners who were killed

earlier this month in a mine explosion.  The president told family members

their memories would be honored by improving safety conditions in the mines

around the country. 

Obama, the president of the United States, has ordered reviews of all

coal mines in the United States with poor safety records.  There‘s a lot of

them.  He wants federal officials to strengthen laws full of loopholes that

allow unsafe conditions to continue.  The Senate will hold a mine safety

hearing tomorrow.  The nation‘s top mine safety expert is expected to

testify.  We‘ll, of course, be watching that and have coverage for you

tomorrow night.  

Finally, 40 miles off the coast of Louisiana, the situation involving

the oil rig disaster seems to be getting worse.  Officials from BP said the

well is currently leaking up to 42,000 gallons of oil into the ocean each

day.  So far, submarines have been unable to engage the blowout valve to

immediately shut off the flow, which isn‘t good.  They are hopeful the leak

can be sealed within the next day or two.  But if they fail, it could be

really months before the oil is shut off. 

The Coast Guard says the slick caused by the leak is covering more

than 1,800 square miles, roughly the size of the state of Delaware.  The

spill is expected to stay offshore at least the next three days.  If it

reaches land, the oil could cause a serious environmental disaster. 

Coming up, the Georgia State Legislature seems to have been inspired

by what‘s going on in Arizona.  Now they want to se the president‘s birth

certificate.  The lead sponsor of that bill is in the hot seat.  That‘s

next on THE ED SHOW.  Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCHULTZ:  Welcome back to THE ED SHOW.  Finally tonight, Republican

lawmakers in Georgia are following Arizona‘s lead and jumping on the

Birther bandwagon.  They are proposing legislation that would require all

presidential candidates, including President Obama, when he‘s up for re-

election, to prove that they are, and he was, born in the United States and

are United States citizens.  And the lead sponsor of the bill, State

Representative Mark Hatfield, claims he‘s not actually a Birther, even

though he says there‘s no proof that President Obama was born in the United

States.

Georgia State Representative Mark Hatfield joins me now on THE ED

SHOW.  Mr. Hatfield, nice to have you with us tonight.  

MARK HATFIELD, GEORGIA STATE REPRESENTATIVE:  Thank you, Ed.  

SCHULTZ:  You bet.  I want to clarify a couple things.  You‘re not a

Birther, is that correct? 

HATFIELD:  I don‘t consider myself a Birther.  I think a Birther has

been defined as a person who believes that the president was not born

inside the United States.  I‘m not saying that.  I simply don‘t have enough

information to make a decision one way or another where he was born. 

SCHULTZ:  If the state of Georgia were to tell me, Ed Schultz, that

Mark Hatfield was born in Georgia, I guess there would be an element of

belief.  I would say, well, I guess this Mr. Hatfield was an American and

he‘s born in Georgia.  Hawaii state officials have verified President

Obama‘s place of birth.  Why wouldn‘t you take their word for it? 

HATFIELD:  Well, Ed, these cryptic statements that have been coming

out of the state of Hawaii are not really sufficient to make any sort of

determination on.  The state of Hawaii, as I understand it, has produced a

certificate of live birth that is something that any person could be

issued, even if they were not born inside the state of Hawaii, if their

birth was registered in Hawaii.  

SCHULTZ:  Mr. Hatfield, there are millions of Americans who don‘t have

their original birth certificate, that for proof they‘d have to go to the

state capitol of where they were born, and you‘d be getting a copy of it

and that‘s what President Obama has.  That‘s not good enough? 

HATFIELD:  I don‘t think that anyone has seen his original long-form

birth certificate, Ed.  That‘s not the issue here.  The issue here is that

we‘ve got a population in this country which at least, based on a recent

CBS/”New York Times” poll, at least 42 percent of our population has doubts

about the citizenship of our president.  That‘s a problem. 

SCHULTZ:  Well, that‘s, of course, been purported by those on right-

wing radio in this country.  You know how low-information voters are.  The

numbers that you‘re talking about, where was the president born; 58 percent

of Americans believe he was born in the United States.  Now, where I come

from that‘s pretty strong majority.  You‘re not a Birther—go ahead. 

HATFIELD:  It may be a majority, Ed, but the problem is this: I

believe that no American citizen should ever have any doubts about the

legitimacy and the citizenship of the highest elected official in the land.  

SCHULTZ:  Mr. Hatfield, there‘s always going to be people out there

that are going to question somebody for political purposes.  Doesn‘t all

this Birther talk come from just a dislike and actually a hatred for

President Obama?  That‘s where all this started.  It all started on right-

wing radio.  You know that.  

HATFIELD:  Not at all, Ed.  I think you‘re going off in the wrong

direction here.  The president holds all the cards in this scenario.  The

president, himself, could release the records to show and document—

SCHULTZ:  He has released them.  They‘re on the Internet.  

HATFIELD:  He could release the records that show where he went to

college and what he did in college and release his passport.  These are

things that are completely within his control, and he has chosen not to

show those to the American people and people are asking why.  

SCHULTZ:  Mr. Hatfield, he has shown them to the American people.  The

White House has shown them to the American people.  The Hawaiian state

officials have verified his birthplace.  For some reason, there‘s people

that just don‘t want to go along with it because they just don‘t like the

fact—and I—I just—you say you‘re not a Birther.  Have you had

constituents come to you in Georgia and say, hey, you‘ve got to introduce

this legislation? 

HATFIELD:  People in Georgia are very strongly supportive of this

legislation, Ed.  I‘ll tell you why.  Because the United States

Constitution Article II, Section I says very plainly that only a natural-

born citizen may hold the—

SCHULTZ:  I know what it says.  

HATFIELD:  -- office of president of the United States.  

SCHULTZ:  You mean to tell me that the majority of people in Georgia

think that the president wasn‘t born in the United States? 

HATFIELD:  I believe the majority of people in Georgia want to see the

Constitutional requirements enforced.  Currently there are no—there is

no teeth to that provision.  Congress has done nothing to give any teeth to

the Article II, Section I provision. 

SCHULTZ:  What would satisfy you? 

HATFIELD:  If congress fails to act, I think the states have a duty to

step up and do so.  

SCHULTZ:  You want the president of the United States to show up with

his original birth certificate, although millions of Americans can‘t do

that? 

HATFIELD:  I disagree with you.  I‘d be glad to share mine if I was

running for president.  I‘d be prepared to produce documentation necessary

to show I‘m an American citizen.  

SCHULTZ:  He‘s an American citizen.  You know it.  This is trumped up

stuff.  And just admit the fact that you‘re not going to go along with any

answer that he gives you.  Mr. Hatfield, I appreciate your—

HATFIELD:  Ed, with all due respect, the bottom line is—is when

there‘s no other argument to be made, it becomes a hollering contest to see

how hard someone can holler to drown out the opposition.  

SCHULTZ:  I‘m not hollering, sir.  I‘m not hollering at all.  I‘m

saying this is misguided legislation and I think you know he‘s an American. 

Good to have you with us tonight.  I appreciate your time.

HATFIELD:  Thank you for letting me be with you, Ed.

SCHULTZ:  You bet. 

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY

BE UPDATED.

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