Guests: Beau Biden, Mike Papantonio, Mike Wise, B.J. Schecter, Lizz
Winstead, Buzz Bissinger
ED SCHULTZ, HOST: Good evening, Americans. And welcome to THE ED
SHOW, tonight from New York.
Jerry Sandusky should be behind bars for the rest of his life.
Tonight, Sandusky is a free man. It`s wrong and the state of Pennsylvania
is making a big mistake.
The man who saw Sandusky rape a 10-year-old boy and never called the
cops has been placed on paid administrative leave. Penn State needs to do
a lot more.
This is THE ED SHOW -- let`s get to work.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There`s no help for somebody that does this.
There`s, you know, not like this. There`s -- he needs to be put away. He
needs to be put away for a long time.
SCHULTZ (voice-over): A victim`s mother breaks her silence on the
Penn State rape scandal. Delaware Attorney General Beau Biden says the
laws on reporting abuse need to change and he is here tonight.
The grand jury report says the mother of victim six tried to make
Sandusky promise never to shower with a boy again, but he would not. So
why is this guy free on bail? I`ll ask "Ring of Fire" radio host and
attorney, Mike Papantonio.
And I think drastic measures need to be taken against the Penn State
football program. I`ll ask author Buzz Bissinger what he thinks.
In "Psycho Talk," Senator Jim DeMint can`t bring himself to honor
SEN. JIM DEMINT (R), SOUTH CAROLINA: I do not believe the government
should privilege one American over another.
SCHULTZ: And Cain and Perry`s crash are letting Newt Gingrich back
into the race.
GOV. RICK PERRY (R-TX), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Oops.
SCHULTZ: "Daily Show" co-creator Lizz Winstead is here.
HERMAN CAIN (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: That`s what I`m talking
SCHULTZ: Good to have you with us tonight, folks. Thanks for
The Penn State scandal is prompting more questions than answers.
Almost a full week after it first exploded. Joe Paterno is fired, but
others involved are only on administrative leave and the accused child
rapist is a free man.
Today, assistant coach Mike McQueary was placed on paid leave. He
will not coach in the game tomorrow against Nebraska. The grand jury
report says McQueary saw Jerry Sandusky sexually abusing a child and waited
until the next day to report the incident to coach Paterno.
New university president, Rodney Erickson, said today Penn State
should not be a place where people are afraid to do the right thing.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RODNEY ERICKSON, PENN STATE INTERIM PRESIDENT: Clearly, this is an
ongoing investigation, but it does appear that certainly some individuals
were afraid to make known what they might have seen.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: Last night on this broadcast, I said that Penn State should
cancel the rest of its football season. I`ll give more reason on that
tonight, as there is a precedent that`s been set.
But Erickson said the games will go on.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ERICKSON: It would also, I believe, not be fair to our student
athletes who weren`t involved in this situation to penalize them, many of
whom have worked for their entire life and certainly for many cases the
last four years, this is senior day at Penn State.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: Erickson was also asked if fired coach Joe Paterno would be
in attendance in Saturday`s game. He said Paterno is free to attend just
like any other private citizen.
Paterno`s son confirmed the family has retained a criminal defense
For the first time, the mother of one of the victims spoke out. She
concealed her identity but said firing Joe Paterno was the right thing to
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think if he had any inclination of this and, I
mean, he may have legally did what he need to do, but there`s got to be
some moral bearing. In my opinion, yes, I think they all needed to be
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: The mother reserved harsher words for the accused child
molester, Jerry Sandusky.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I want him to be locked up. There`s no --
there`s no help for somebody that does this. There`s, you know, not like
this. There`s -- he needs to be put away. He needs to be put away for a
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: Sandusky will have his day in court and a jury will decide
if he goes away for a long time.
But, right now, folks, Sandusky has not gone away at all. He has been
a free man since the day he was arrested. Sandusky is free on $100,000
unsecured bail -- meaning he doesn`t even have to post the money unless he
fails to appear in court later this month.
So, a court of law decided Sandusky was not a flight risk, not a risk
to himself, not a risk to others, and he is currently on the street. This
decision was made despite the details in 23 pages of grand jury testimony
including a section saying, "victim six`s mother tried to make Sandusky
promise never to shower with a boy again, but he would not."
And later in the report, it said, "After Sandusky was told he could
not see victim six anymore, Sandusky said, `I understand, I was wrong, I
wish I could get forgiveness, I know I won`t get it from you, I wish I were
He can`t promise he won`t repeat his actions. He says he wants to
take his own life, but he is a free man tonight pending court action.
You think that`s right? I don`t. The laws need to be changed.
Get your cell phones out. I want to know what you think.
Tonight`s question: should Jerry Sandusky be free on bail tonight?
Text "A" for yes, text "B" for no to 622639. And you can go to our
blog at Ed.MSNBC.com. We`ll bring you the results later in the show.
Let`s turn now to Delaware Attorney General Beau Biden.
Mr. Biden, appreciate your time tonight. Thanks so much.
BEAU BIDEN, DELAWARE ATTORNEY GENERAL: Happy to be on, Ed.
SCHULTZ: Are we dealing with a broken system here? We got a system
here that allows Jerry Sandusky to be free on unsecured bail. Is this a
broken system? What`s wrong?
BIDEN: Well, look, there`s a lot of times where judges make decisions
that I don`t agree with. I think you`ll see the attorney general continue
to focus on that and maybe revisiting that. I don`t know.
What I do know, Ed, is that part of the system is broken. And that
is, the reporting requirements that exist around the country in state --
from state to state. In Delaware and 17 other states, there`s a mandatory
reporting requirement. From my perspective, there are should be a
mandatory reporting requirement, too, to -- this is essential -- to law
enforcement. That should be the mandatory reporting requirement for
anybody who reasonably suspects a child is being abuse the in any way,
shape or form.
That`s the law in Delaware. That`s the law from my perspective that
should be in the other states. And if we had that in place in
Pennsylvania, you know, we might have a bit of a different outcome. But
SCHULTZ: Why wouldn`t Sandusky be considered a flight risk or suicide
BIDEN: Well, I didn`t see the application, the part of the D.A. and
the A.G.`s office and I didn`t see the judge`s ruling. But, you know,
there`s been many times -- I`m a prosecutor in my state, and there`s been
times where judges make decisions that I don`t agree with. What
prosecutors do is they move on. I know, I assume what they`re doing is
continuing to build their case and as we speak.
Look, Ed, I`m not here to second-guess a judge`s decision or what the
A.G., my colleague in Pennsylvania is doing, how they`re prosecuting this
case. What I am here -- and I appreciate your coverage of this -- to make
One out of four girls -- one out of four girls before they`re 18 are
sexually abused. One out of six boys is sexually abused before they`re 18.
Only one in 10 of those victims ever report the crimes. And nine out of 10
of the perpetrators are someone from the family or someone that the
perpetrator knows the victim.
That is the epidemic we`re facing in this nation. That`s what we`re
confronting today and what you see in Pennsylvania. That`s what you`ve
seen -- I`m a Catholic -- that`s what you`ve seen in my church. That`s
what you`ve seen in institutions across this country and quite frankly
across the world.
More needs to be done. A brighter light needs to be shined on this.
I appreciate you shining light on this.
SCHULTZ: Well, let`s switch to Mike McQueary, the football coach, the
assistant coach, still with the university but on paid administrative leave
and fired coach Joe Paterno.
By the letter of the law in 2002, did they fulfill their legal
obligations in your opinion?
BIDEN: Well, look, again, I`m very low to second-guess what an
attorney general, a colleague, is doing just north of my state. It
appears, based on what I`ve read, that he may have satisfied the bare
minimum. But, again, I try to stay out of the way of other prosecutors,
allow them to do their cases and not second-guess both their statutory
structure and how they`re pursuing a case.
What I think we need to focus on out of this more than anything else
is how to prevent cases like this. Mandatory reporting requirement is
number one. And number two is making sure the institutions and people who
are entrusted with children should never allow anyone in their institution
or whatever it might be to have a one-on-one situation between an adult and
Know every mother and father out there right now should ensure every
school, every scouting agency -- any group that takes care of kids. And
there`s many that do, and great ones that do it. But to make sure there`s
never a situation where their child is ever in a one-on-one situation with
an adult that`s not visible and open.
SCHULTZ: University President Rodney Erickson said McQueary had not
been fired because of complexities. What could those complexities be from
what you know of the situation?
BIDEN: Again, I hate to -- I don`t mean to sound like a prosecutor,
but I am. Truly in my job and my role, I`m the attorney general of the
state of Delaware. I really -- they have an ongoing investigation and have
their hands full. Governor Corbett, who was a former attorney general,
squared away. He started this investigation.
They`re going to get to the bottom of this as I`m sure Penn State is.
SCHULTZ: So, what are the reporting laws of Delaware? I mean,
Delaware has athletic programs there as well.
SCHULTZ: And also, let`s get to that. What are the reporting laws in
BIDEN: The reporting laws in Delaware as they are in 17 other states
say that you must, any citizen, any citizen, must report a report of child
abuse if they reasonably believe that a child is being abused.
SCHULTZ: Reasonably believe?
SCHULTZ: I mean, that`s -- that`s a lot shorter than a witness.
BIDEN: Well, 100 percent. That`s exactly the point.
And so, you know, if in Delaware if you witness this crime and didn`t
report it, you not only violate the mandatory reporting law but you`d be
conceivably charged on a criminal front with endangering the welfare of a
child and I can think of a number of other charges that might be lodged.
But that`s Delaware.
The reality is, look, we are very focused on both the prosecution and
punishment of pedophiles and what we`re talking about. Pedophilia here.
BIDEN: If I can make a point, there`s a great organization called
Darkness 2, the number 2, Light. And in Delaware, the YMCA, and the
Delaware Prevent Child Abuse organization, as well as my office, our goal
is to educate 35,000 Delawareans in our state in the next many months to
spot signs for child abuse and prevent it and make sure these cases don`t
happen by emboldening -- children need to be emboldened to speak up and
speak out about something that`s almost impossible to speak up and speak
SCHULTZ: Child abuse happens in all 50 states. Should there be a
federal standard? Are we approaching this properly?
BIDEN: Well, you know, that`s a fair question, Ed. I bet you`re
going to have members of congress grappling with that decision as we speak.
And I -- you know, this is something I think the states can handle state by
state. I know Delaware has. I know 18 other states have.
That`s a fair question whether or not under Title 18 or the U.S. Code,
Congress wants to make the national standard on this. That`s something for
Congress to take up.
SCHULTZ: Delaware Attorney General Beau Biden, appreciate your time
tonight. Thanks so much for joining us on THE ED SHOW. Let`s do it again.
BIDEN: I look forward to it, Ed.
SCHULTZ: Remember to answer tonight`s question on the bottom of the
screen. And share your thoughts on Twitter @EdShow. We want to know what
The Penn State sexual abuse scandal and utter failure of the system.
I`ll have more commentary, more on the legal ramifications with "Ring of
Fire" radio host and attorney Mike Papantonio. And later, Mike Wise and
B.J. Schecter weigh in on the future of Penn State. And I bring forth a
commentary tonight, what about the death penalty for the football program
at Penn State?
Stay with us. We`re right back.
SCHULTZ: The man accused of rape in the Penn State scandal is
allegedly a high risk to kids but he`s out on bail. Coming up, "Ring of
Fire" radio host Mike Papantonio on the ongoing scandal.
Tomorrow, the Nittany Lions play their next game against Nebraska. I
think if the university doesn`t end their season, the NCAA should.
And later in the show, Herman Cain is the latest GOP front-runner to
flame out. Will Newt Gingrich rise from the ashes to the top of the polls?
Lizz Winstead will join me.
Stay with us.
SCHULTZ: Welcome back to THE ED SHOW.
The Pennsylvania state police department is very busy receiving calls
about additional child abuse victims of Jerry Sandusky, according to the
"Daily Beast." Each call is being thoroughly investigated.
Penn State`s interim president Rodney Erickson announced a special
committee to investigate the sexual abuse scandal.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RODNEY ERICKSON, PENN STATE INTERIM PRESIDENT: I think we have to let
the investigation play out. It`s possible that there may be other victims
that will come forward. It`s possible that the attorney general`s
investigation will uncover additional information.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: Yes, there`s a very good chance this could get a lot worse.
And it`s important to remember how the system failed. Despite so many
people obtaining knowledge of Jerry Sandusky`s alleged acts.
There was the 1998 shower incident. The campus police chief, a police
detective, and the Department of Public Welfare were all involved in the
investigation. The district attorney, Ray Gricar, closed the case.
In 2000, a janitor allegedly saw Sandusky engaged in sexual activity
with a boy in the shower. The janitor told a co-worker and his supervisor
at the time.
In 2002, that incident, Mike McQueary witnessed Sandusky sodomizing a
10-year-old boy according to the grand jury report.
Paterno, Curley, Schultz and Spanier all knew some version of all of
this. The incident was also reported to the Second Mile charity.
Do you think those 13 people are the only ones who knew something
about Jerry Sandusky`s behavior? I doubt it. Not likely.
Now, we have the final atrocity in a system not protecting kids, with
the alleged perpetrator out on bail.
Let`s bring in "Ring of Fire" radio host and attorney, Mike
Mike, great to have you with us tonight.
Mike, there is some new news just coming in now. Mike McQueary,
assistant coach at Penn State, just had a conference call with his
receivers in which he told them that he is in protective custody.
What do you make of this tonight, from what we know of it, as it
continues to mount?
MIKE PAPANTONIO, HOST, "RING OF FIRE": What I make of it, Ed, is that
there is no honor among criminals. And when you have people that are
looking at serious time, you have Sandusky, Ed, looking at 400 years
potentially. Ed, and so, anything is likely to happen in this story. And
I think that`s the thing that`s most troublesome to me about a naive judge
and a prosecutor who had to absolutely lay down and allow this man to be
Look, this concept that he`s out walking around is so absurd because
the very thing you`re talking about here. There`s an emerging story every
day, Ed. Today, we learn in Texas -- there`s a new story that`s talking
about whether or not this man raped a child in Texas.
So the bail issue is very problematic. Look, bail is reserved for
several things. First of all, we consider: is this guy going to flee? He
might. He`s looking at 400 years.
But the most important thing is here, we know his history. We know
he`s raped children all the way back to 1998 that we know of.
And here you have a judge that`s so naive -- I mean, she really says,
look, I`m going to give you an unsecured bail. I`m going to let you walk
around. And here`s what you have to do: stay away from children.
Really? I mean, are you kidding?
Those are the type -- those are the types of bail, Ed, that you
reserve for things like property or drug issues. Not $100,000 for this.
In Florida, this guy wouldn`t be seeing the light of day. In most
states, he wouldn`t be seeing the light of day. The problem here is you
either have an incredibly naive judge, nobody has told her that this is a
repeat offender who has a 60 percent chance of doing it again.
It`s not that he has a moral problem, Ed. He has a brain defect.
This is a guy that should be in a padded room in a bug house, not walking
SCHULTZ: Mike, should there be a federal law? I mean, we`ve got
child abuse in all 50 states. And this takes the politics out of it.
Think about this.
We don`t know for sure, but there could have been a real cover-up
taking place at Penn State. If you`ve got a federal law, it takes a lot of
local politics out of. What do you make of that?
PAPANTONIO: That`s exactly the point, Ed. You remove the good ole
Look, when I heard -- when this story came out about Sandusky being
released, I was in a room with the best criminal attorneys and best ex-
prosecutors that you`d ever want to have in a room. And you know what they
said? They said the problem is that one state has politics that are
different from the other.
Access is important. What political campaign did you work with? Who
does this judge connect with this person?
You have to remove that. You have to be able to say, there`s one
rule. You don`t molest children. And if you do, a judge is not going to
let you go on bail and you`re not going to get any breaks.
SCHULTZ: Administrative coach, assistant coach should I say, Mike
McQueary, is on administrative leave as we reported and in protective
custody, not at the university grounds. Curley and Gary Schultz are being
defended by lawyers, paid for by the university. What`s wrong with this
picture? Why haven`t all three of them been fired?
PAPANTONIO: Well, what happens at this point, what happens at this
point, Ed, this is a university that is looking at money. This whole
thing, Ed, is about money. That`s why they were going to let this coach
show up on the field this weekend until there was too much outrage. It`s
all about a program that makes between $80 million and $100 million a year
Here`s what`s happening, Ed.
SCHULTZ: I think you`re making a heck of a point here -- $72 million
was the money that Penn State brought in last year. Now, that`s their
annual revenue that comes in.
You`re making a heck of a point here. They didn`t have the
wherewithal to make the decision of what they should to with the assistant
coach until the public pressure continued to mount which tells me, Mike,
they don`t have their hands around this. You know, they haven`t got the
full grab of this.
What do you think?
PAPANTONIO: Ed, it`s not even that they don`t have their hands around
it. They still don`t get it. It`s still about money.
It`s still about selling their program. It`s about selling TV time.
It`s about selling hats and shirts. They don`t get it.
Understand when McQueary was given permission to go out on that field,
they had gotten rid of everybody who they knew about was involved here.
So, right now, they`re lawyering up for these people because they see the
next big money issue. And that is multi, multimillion dollar cases coming
It`s all about money, Ed. There`s no honor in this Penn State seen
here at all.
SCHULTZ: Joe Paterno has hired criminal defense lawyer, J. Sedgwick
Sollers. I`m sure you know the man. Your thoughts on that move.
PAPANTONIO: Well, real simple. You analyze it this way. Did he hire
him because of his firing and pension issue? No. You don`t hire a firm
like that on a contract issue.
Did he hire him because he was concerned about the lawsuits that are
going to come against him in civil court? No. Because he was an employee
with the university and he`s covered under their policy.
The only thing you can conclude here, Ed, is he`s lawyering up because
he knows there is no honor among criminals. He knows Sandusky is looking
at 400 years. He knows that everybody else involved may start pointing the
finger at Paterno. We still to this day don`t know what Paterno told, or
who he told, so at this point he --
SCHULTZ: You know, here`s a thing about who said what to who and
everything else. And I think we`ve got to understand the culture of
college football and coaching staffs. Coaching staffs are a fraternity.
They are close knit. They know one another throughout the country. OK?
I find it hard to believe that the coaches at Penn State who had been
together for so long didn`t have some rumor mill about Sandusky?
SCHULTZ: I`m telling you tonight, I think, hell, they knew. I mean,
that`s my opinion. I mean, I`m drawing conclusion. I think they knew.
And they just -- well, you know, this could really bring down the
football program and this could bring down a lot of great people who have
been around for a long time. Athletic director, why don`t you go handle
this thing and see what you can do with it and let`s see where it all goes
-- and now look where we are?
I mean, I just think from all of this, there is a culture out there at
Penn State. It`s bigger than anything. We can`t take down Penn State. We
can`t take down a football program. This is just bigger than anything.
It`s repulsive is what it is. It`s a priority list in America we have
to rearrange and realize that nothing, no one, no institution is above the
You have the final word, Mike.
PAPANTONIO: Ed, nothing operates in a vacuum. If you don`t think
every decision made, that athletic director, when he was told that -- he
heard the story that a 10-year-old child was being raped.
You know what he thought about? Not the 10-year-old child. He
thought about his career. He thought about how much money that university
was making just like that graduate --
SCHULTZ: Sure appears that way.
PAPANTONIO: I can promise you that`s what happened. This is about
money. It`s not about honor or honesty at all.
And you know what? Tonight, it still isn`t. We`re seeing the same
SCHULTZ: Mike Papantonio, always a pleasure. Good to have your
insight on the program. Thank you.
Over 100,000 screaming Penn State fans will show their support for Joe
Paterno tomorrow. I think it`s wrong, and I`ll tell you why, next.
Rick Perry had a senior moment and Herman Cain is tanking in the
polls. "Daily Show" co-creator Lizz Winstead will be here to assess the
Stay with us.
SCHULTZ: Welcome back to THE ED SHOW. More on Penn State. The
culture of moral corruption the Penn State football program has displayed
during the Sandusky scandal, I think, is absolutely reprehensible.
It`s clear Joe Paterno and Penn State leadership cared more about the
football program and the school`s reputation than the actions of an alleged
child rapist. It`s not enough to fire a coach and a school president.
There needs to be real restitution, in my opinion.
A message needs to be sent. Penn State should step up to the plate
and cancel the rest of the season. Tomorrow, you`re going to turn on your
TV sets and you`re going to see the Nittany Lions playing Nebraska. Now,
according to reports, fans are planning to wear blue to show their
solidarity with the victims.
Multiple sources connected with the Penn State football team tell TMZ,
the website, that coaches -- the coaches -- the coaches had a meeting with
players Thursday and said friends and family should show support for ousted
coach Joe Paterno by wearing white to the game on Saturday.
Hold it right there. Are they still collecting a paycheck from Penn
State? So basically what they`re doing is asking the fans to show up and
say, hey, the university made a mistake and actually Joe still ought to be
the head coach.
This is getting way out of control. How do you think the victims --
how do you think their families are going to feel when they see people
treating Paterno like a damn hero?
Penn State needs to pull the plug. End this. If they don`t, then the
NCAA needs to consider what has been used before in the NCAA. It`s called
the death penalty.
According to the NCAA, the death penalty is a "phrase used by media to
describe the most serious NCAA penalties possible. It can include
eliminating the involved sport for at least one year."
Only five college programs have ever been given the death penalty,
including the SMU football program back in the `80s. The schools that have
traditionally gotten the death penalty have been paying for players and
illegal recruiting and stuff that they shouldn`t have been doing.
The NCAA should expand their scope and cancel the rest of Penn State`s
season and bring this back into order, and recognize the severity and the
seriousness of it all.
In 2000, the NCAA canceled -- canceled at least 15 games on the
schedule of the University of Vermont men`s hockey team because they found
out players were lying during an investigation into a hazing scandal?
No commentary there. I`ll let you be the judge. Hazing versus -- I
understand that none of the current Penn State football players did
anything wrong. These are unintended consequences, but it is life.
But it sure looks like the coaching staff and the school
administration did. And Penn State needs to mop it up.
But when you bring in 72 million dollars a year. And you have a lot
of fans, people who are planning weekends, you just can`t ruin any of that.
Penn State needs to set a national example tonight.
The country -- the world is watching this. To allow that team to go
out there for the sake of money, for the sake of senior day, or whatever
the hell else it is, is the wrong thing to do.
There needs to be restitution. No football program, no coach, no
university is bigger than the alleged raping of 10-year-olds. And repeated
allegations year after year after year.
This country has got a lot of problems. Education has its issues.
The economy needs to be turned around. But you mean to tell me we as a
country have become so bought by worshipping programs, coaches, that we
can`t make a solid, concise decision on what the right thing to do is in
My opinion, the new president of Penn State is off to a real bad
start. I think the board of trustees ought to reconvene tomorrow morning
and rethink everything we are saying on this broadcast tonight, everything
I have said on this broadcast this week.
Penn State, you got to do more.
And one more thing. I think that all of those students who have been
out in the streets protesting the last few nights, upset about the football
coach being fired, you know what you ought to do? You ought to go home at
Thanksgiving, and sitting around the Thanksgiving table with your parents,
why don`t you read the grand jury report, and then ask yourself the
question if you made the right decision going out in the street and
I`m joined now by Buzz Bissinger, author of "Friday Night Lights" and
"Vanity Fair" contributing editor.
Buzz, good to have you with us tonight. Thanks so much.
BUZZ BISSINGER, AUTHOR, "FRIDAY NIGHT LIGHTS": Hey, my pleasure.
SCHULTZ: How do you see Penn State handling this right now?
BISSINGER: Well, you know, obviously they`re in complete chaos and
damage control mode. I happen to think that they should not cancel the
game tomorrow, because I don`t see this as a football scandal, a sports
scandal. I think it goes way, way beyond this.
It is a scandal of morality, inhumanity, of corruption, of terrible,
terrible judgment, perhaps criminal judgment by people of power. As you
point out, the current players didn`t have anything to do with this.
Football is going to go on.
The NCAA, yeah, they could step in. They`re the most feckless
organization in America. You make a very good point about the death
penalty, which they should get. Who knows what`s going to happen.
But I think they should be able to play tomorrow. They were right to
fire Paterno. They were right to fire the president. The handling of
McQueary, I have to believe is for legal reasons. I think they don`t want
to fire him because if they do fire him, then he becomes a less credible
witness in the trial. And we don`t want that because he is the most
credible, most important witness, because this -- and everyone calls him a
kid -- a 28-year-old man.
SCHULTZ: He was 28 when he saw it.
BISSINGER: An eyewitness. You know how rare it is for a -- a adult
to eyewitness this kind of child abuse, of sodomy, of anal intercourse by a
coach on a kid? It`s almost unheard of.
SCHULTZ: Let`s talk about the program here. NCAA president -- the
NCAA president, Mark Emmeret, said Thursday, "the NCAA will defer the
immediate term to law enforcement officials since the situation involved in
the alleged crimes. As the facts are established through the justice
system, we will determine whether the association bylaws have been violated
and act accordingly."
What do you think that means?
BISSINGER: Absolutely nothing. It`s kind of gobbledygook. It`s the
kind of gobbledygook that is all you get from the NCAA. It is always
passing the buck. We have to wait here. We have to wait there. We have
to wait on this judgment. We have to wait on that judgment.
The NCAA is only there -- your previous guest had it right about
money, in terms of the NCAA. The only thing the NCAA cares about is how
much revenue and money they can make. It`s the only thing they care about.
College football and basketball, they are evil empires. It is
absolutely out of control. Penn State is by far the worst. We can sit
here, Ed -- we could come up with 25 different scandals in 15 minutes. The
NCAA does nothing. Nothing.
SCHULTZ: Buzz Bissinger, good to have you with us tonight. Thanks so
BISSINGER: Hey, thank you.
SCHULTZ: It`s been an unbelievable week for a once proud institution.
Where does Penn State go from here? Mike Wise and B.J. Schecter weigh in
Senator Jim DeMint proves that he doesn`t give a damn about veterans.
Just look at his vote. DeMint`s cold hearted vote lands him in the Zone.
Stay with us.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TROY CRAIG, FORMER SECOND MILE PARTICIPANT: Any time we were in the
car, driving anywhere, his hand -- it was a given that his hand would be on
my thigh. And you know, I just knew that that was not the way any other
adult man in my life touched me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: Welcome back to THE ED SHOW. That was Troy Craig, an alum
of the Second Mile Summer Camp run by former Penn State Assistant Coach
Jerry Sandusky. The fallout over Sandusky`s alleged sexual abuse of
A once proud institution now tainted by a scandal. Let`s bring in
B.J. Schecter, executive director of SportsIllustrated.com, and Mike Wise,
sports columnist for the "Washington Post" and WJFK Radio host.
Gentlemen, good to have you with us tonight.
Well, there are more and more developments as it moves forward. Is
the school doing the right thing by putting McQueary on paid leave? Mike,
you first. What do you think?
MIKE WISE, "THE WASHINGTON POST": Yes. Yes. Personally, I wouldn`t
mind seeing him -- seeing his employment terminated, Ed. But if, in fact,
they put him on administrative leave and he`s not going to attend the game
on Saturday, I think that`s the best thing. People forget that a lot of
adult survivors of child sexual abuse have a lot of rage in them still.
And when they find a target, somebody who looked the other way,
sometimes they feel like they need to express their feelings. I don`t
think -- I`m not saying Mike McQueary wouldn`t be safe in that stadium.
I`m saying I wouldn`t take the chance.
SCHULTZ: B.J. Schecter, let`s talk about this investigation that the
university is going to do. Ken Frazier is the CEO of the big company,
Merck. Penn State alum as well and a board member -- is leading the
Will we see anything come from that? I mean, is the CEO of Merck --
is he qualified to do something like this? What do you think?
B.J. SCHECTER, EXEC. EDITOR, SI.COM: Well, you know, I`m not sure
about Ken Frazier`s background, but what Penn State needs to do and what
the authorities need to do, what the NCAA needs to do -- somebody
independent needs to come in here and look at this with a clear mind and
determine what really happened.
Part of the problem and the reason why people are enabled over the
years is because they were scared of the power of Penn State football and
Joe Paterno. Penn State needs to clean house. They need to start anew. I
think what we need to realize here is Penn State has a huge opportunity to
do something right.
They need to start now, because for so many years they did wrong by
the kids, the kids that got abused, by the law, by everything. Morally,
ethically, legally, it`s time for them to step up and do something right.
SCHULTZ: B.J., you think they should -- should the NCAA be looking at
this closely? I mean, they`ve gone on record saying that they`re going to
wait to see how the legal end of it all plays out? But is there a chance
that the NCAA would come in and say, hey, you have to make restitution?
SCHECTER: I seriously doubt it. What I know about the NCAA, from
covering college football and college basketball over the years, is the
NCAA is a toothless organization. They don`t take on these things. They
don`t take decisive action. I don`t think we`ll ever see the death penalty
in our lifetime because of the economic impact that it would have on the
I don`t think they have the guts to do it. I think this is a much
bigger problem than Penn State. This is a much bigger problem than the
NCAA. It`s a cultural problem. It`s a systemic problem.
We have to take a look at the role college sports play in education.
SCHECTER: College sports, I believe, belong in education, but they
can`t be paramount. They can`t control. They can`t be the tail wagging
SCHULTZ: Mike, what do you make of the coaches reportedly meeting
with the players, saying they should tell their friends and family to wear
white in support of coach Paterno, who`s been fired by university? What do
you make of that?
WISE: Shameful. Flat-out shameful. You know, I understand people
want to make Joe Pa a martyr in this -- in this drama. And I understand
that Joe Paterno probably wants that affirmation that he was a great coach,
and he did wonderful things. And he did.
But it all changes when you don`t prevent -- when you don`t prevent a
child molester from abusing more children. It looks like that`s what`s
I think -- I think if Joe Paterno really loved Penn State and he
really loved -- and he really was sympathetic to the victims, he would say
don`t bring a single placard about me to the game on Saturday. Don`t chant
my name when we do the silence for the victims. Don`t do anything.
This is about them. This isn`t about me. I don`t believe Joe Paterno
has that in him, because he likes being a martyr in this story. It`s sad.
It`s sad to see a great, once great man, go out like this.
SCHULTZ: B.J. Schecter, Mike Wise, always interesting take. Great to
have you with us.
Jim Demint spits on American heroes just in time for Veterans Day.
I`ll show you who Demint really cares about in Psycho Talk. You won`t want
to miss it. Stay with us.
SCHULTZ: And in Psycho Talk tonight, South Carolina Senator Jim
Demint is literally the one percent. The guy who said he wants to break
President Obama was the only senator out of 100 who voted against giving a
tax credit to businesses who hire military veterans.
Now, the bill was part of President Obama`s jobs plan called Vow to
Hire Heroes. Republicans and Democrats were solidly behind it, except
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JIM DEMINT (R), SOUTH CAROLINA: By using a politically sensitive
group the day before Veterans Day, the Democrats are hoping they can trick
Republicans into further complicating the tax code when we should be doing
everything possible to simplify it.
We`re pandering to different political groups with programs that have
proven to be ineffective. I cannot support this tax credit because I do
not believe the government should privilege one American over another when
it comes to work.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: The keyword here is privilege. Jim Demint has spent his
career privileging one American over another. One year ago, Jim Demint
fought tooth and nail against last December`s tax deal because of an estate
tax that would apply to people worth more than five million dollars. That
tax will effect about 3,300 people this year.
Meanwhile, 900,000 of America`s 22 million military veterans are
unemployed. But Demint says they`re just a political group his colleagues
are pandering to.
So Jim Demint is willing to fight for a tax cut affecting 3,300 super
rich people, but he`s not willing to support a tax cut effecting 900,000
For Demint to say the Vow to Hire Heroes Bill is a Democratic trick is
definitely un-American Psycho Talk.
Coming up, "Daily Show" co-creator Lizz Winstead talks about the sorry
state of the GOP. Even Newt is moving up.
SCHULTZ: Survey tonight on THE ED SHOW; I asked you should Jerry
Sandusky be free on bail tonight? Five percent of you said yes; 95 percent
of you said no.
Coming up, the GOP race has already been through more lead changes
than its new favorite has been through marriages. Lizz Winstead all about
that topic when we come back, as the Newtster is surging in the polls.
SCHULTZ: And finally this week, it`s been a week of high profile
meltdowns for two prominent 2012 hopefuls.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CAIN: I have never acted inappropriately with anyone.
PERRY: Commerce, education and the -- what`s the third one there?
CAIN: The Democrat machine in America has brought forth a troubled
woman to make false accusations.
PERRY: Commerce, education and the -- um --
CAIN: Princess Nancy.
PERRY: And let`s see. I can`t. The third one, I can`t. Sorry.
CAIN: There will probably be others.
PERRY: I stepped in it.
I stepped in it.
I stepped in it last night.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: Those disastrous performances may have made room for the
next Republican flavor of the week. This time it`s the ethically
challenged former speaker of the House, the Newtster, Newt Gingrich, the
guy who`s on his third marriage after cheating on the first two wives and
starting divorce proceedings with one of them while she`s still in the
hospital fighting cancer.
Newt Gingrich is surging. One new poll has him tied at second place
with Mitt Romney, three points behind Herman Cain. Another one puts him
ahead of the pizza man and four points behind Romney.
It`s a close one. With me, Lizz Winstead, co-creator of the "Daily
Show." Do they dislike Mitt Romney so much they`ll accept Newt Gingrich?
LIZZ WINSTEAD, COMEDIAN: You know, this is -- it`s what`s crazy. I
mean, I don`t know who likes Mitt Romney. That`s why he has such a big
family I think, Ed. Because he just has to have these people related to
him that like him.
Even when it`s clearly easy to diss Mitt, poor Rick Perry can`t even
spit it out. Clearly they prepped him during the debate, where he`s like,
are you the Mitt Romney who had that thing with the people, with the
Planned Parent -- or that other -- I don`t know -- I can`t -- he couldn`t
It was -- I watched the debate. And as I watched Rick Perry say --
you know, struggle for the third department he wanted to cut, you know that
Herman Cain was just sitting there going, please say EEOC. Please say
EEOC. Please, please, please say it. Willing it to him. Then he didn`t.
SCHULTZ: Then he screwed it up, because he said they have to rebuild
the EPA. I`m sure the Koch Brothers wouldn`t have liked that at all.
Herman Cain is bragging about raising nine million dollars but he is
dropping in the polls. And of course this sexual harassment allegations is
doing it to him. Is he going to recover from this?
He was out there today talking about Anita Hill.
WINSTEAD: No, dissing -- Herman Cain, I`m wondering what`s in his
brain. I think what`s in his brain are all those leftover pieces of
hardware that you have after your put together an Ikea book shelf. There`s
a couple of screws, an Allen wrench. I don`t really get it.
Because I don`t -- when you look at this group of people -- and I
think at this point trying to choose one of these candidates to be your
nominee is like deciding which package of tainted meat would be safest
enough to eat. I don`t know what they`re doing at this point.
It`s so mortifying. When you`re Rick Perry and you`re looking to Ron
Paul on your right for a little help, and Herman Cain on your left for a
little help, it`s really just amazing.
SCHULTZ: Lizz Winstead, great to have you with us.
WINSTEAD: Thanks, Ed.
SCHULTZ: That`s THE ED SHOW. I`m Ed Schultz.
"THE RACHEL MADDOW SHOW" starts right now. Good evening, Rachel.
RACHEL MADDOW, MSNBC ANCHOR: Good evening, Ed. I hope you have a
spectacular week, my friend.
SCHULTZ: I do too. I need it. Lots of shows this week with Ohio and
the debate and everything else. I think I`ll just go to sleep if that`s
MADDOW: I recommend sleep, beer and football. I mean, I`m a doctor.
So you can take that to the bank.
SCHULTZ: That works. I love the potion.
MADDOW: Thanks, Ed. All right. Thanks to you at home for staying
with us for the next hour. Happy Friday.
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