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The Ed Show for Tuesday, November 26th, 2013

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November 26, 2013
Guest: Barbara Boxer, Wendell Potter, Joy Reid, Bob Shrum, John Garamendi



ED SCHULTZ, MSNBC HOST: Here comes Ted Cruz and Darrell Issa tweeting out
about what a wonderful story this is.

REP.MICHELE BACHMANN (R) MINNESOTA: That wasn`t good enough.

SCHULTZ: But they forgot the other kids in this country who are going to
be affected by their vile attitude towards health care.

We`re going to make sure that everybody in California and everybody America
who needs health care is going to get it.


SCHULTZ: Good to have you with us tonight folks. Thanks for watching.

So the President is on the road collecting positive stories about something
that the Right Wing is negative about across the board.

Well, it`s just one brick after another. You can`t build the roof first
when you`re building a house. You got to lay the foundation. Day by day,
the stories are mounting up. We start the program tonight with some
important news about ObamaCare.

Earlier today, the Supreme Court agreed to take up a challenge on the
ObamaCare Contraceptive Insurance mandate. It will decide if the mandate
violates a company`s religious freedom. Now, this case is being taken up a
full two years after the Supreme Court upheld ObamaCare as the law.

Remember, this court has a conservative bent to it, a conservative
majority. It`s the same court that ruled key provisions to the Voting
Rights Act unconstitutional. If the conservative justices determined a
company or corporation has religious rights, it could be a major hit to
ObamaCare. No question about it.

The White House released statement today saying that health decisions
should be up to women, not their employers. This will just drive more
women into the Democratic camp.

In the meantime, the technical issues are being addressed by the
Administration. The real story, the federal exchange is boosting its
capacity day by day and the states with exchanges have quite a report card
to tell and a great number of enrollment taking place.

Earlier today, President Obama said thousands of people in California are
getting health care for the first time


OBAMA: To hear in Southern California and hear across the state, there are
thousands of people every single day who are getting health care from --
the first time -- for the first time because of this.

As a country, we`re not poised to gain health coverage for millions of
Americans starting on January 1st and that includes more than 350,000 here
in California who have already signed up.


SCHULTZ: So the President`s giving us numbers. I found it very
interesting because on your kitchen table, it`s all about the budget, isn`t
it? It`s all about a family`s budget. It`s all about what you have to pay
and then you wonder if you`re getting shafted or not.

This is the story. As people continue to sign up for this thing called
ObamaCare, the success stories are going to start to boom. There was no
better example of this than the state of California. Their state exchange
is working like a charm. Their state exchange is doing what it is saving
in changing lives.

A big credit to Michael Hiltzik of the L.A. Times. I thought he wrote a
great piece. Recently profiled a number of people who ObamaCare has more
than helped. Now, these stories focused on what ObamaCare does for average
Americans. First, there`s the story of David Shevlino. Now, this guy is
an artist who is paying $1000 a month through his wife`s COBRA coverage.
Next year, under ObamaCare, David`s going to pay $650 a month after a
government subsidy. It`s a $350 a month savings.

Now, hold it right there. $350 a month. Now, if you`re a millionaire over
on Fox doing the news, is $350 a month is going to change your lifestyle?
Is it going to bend you one way or another on a story? Are you going to
really feel the impact of the consumer? No. But the people who were on
fixed incomes and middle class families across this country, you go door to
door and ask them, "What is $350 a month in savings mean to you," their
eyes open up. "Hey, that might be a new car. That might be that new truck
that I`ve been thinking about. That`s an upgrade of the house, might even
add on an addition because I can finance it. I`ve got a little bit more
spending power." This money is going to go back into the economy.

There`s also the story of the lesbian couple in California who are paying
$1300 a month for insurance in San Diego County. They were eventually
dropped from their plan. They got one of those notices, you know, from the
insurance company. And then the couple, obviously, had trouble finding a
new plan because one of the partners had a preexisting condition. Now,
under ObamaCare, that got covered. They`re going to get covered. The
couple`s premium. Here`s another`s number game for you. Drop from $1300 a
month to a $142 a month after subsidies. It`s going to save them over
$1100 a month.

Then there`s this story of Judith Silverstein. See Judith was diagnosed
with MS back in 2007. She had insurance and she`s currently paying $750 a
month. The only reason she can pay is because her family helps her with
the bill. Under ObamaCare, Judith`s premium will drop $50 -- to $50 a
month with the subsidy. She and her family will save $700 a month.

Now, it`s not just people receiving subsidies that ObamaCare is helping.
There`s the story of Jason Noble who runs a successful property management
company down in Southern California. He got an ObamaCare plan for $1300 a
month that covers him, his wife and his three children. Now, it cost
slightly more. See how we`re telling both sides of the story? It`s
causing him slightly more than his old plan but his deductible is dropping
from $3400 to $0. It`s definitely a good deal.

You see, stories like these are happening all over the country everyday but
the mainstream media, oh, it`s not just juicy enough. It`s too pro-Obama.
It`s too pro-health care reform. Once the federal exchange is 100 percent
up and running, these stories are going to become the norm across America.

So, whereas the polls may not measure it right now, it`s an instant take of
the American emotion is what polls are today. Fox propaganda is not going
to be able to out do these stories in the long run and it`s going to put
John Boehner, Speaker of the House in an untenable position with the
Republicans. A real top spot.

What is Boehner going to say to these people? Actually, I want all of you
people who are on the Ed Show to go right back to the old system where a
preexisting condition will make it so you get the old rate or no rate at
all. This is what the Republicans have voted for. Reform is not easy.
It`s the same thing this country went through with Social Security with
Medicare and Medicaid and also civil rights. This is the civil rights
issue of our time. And people in this country who are seeing reduced rates
in full coverage who are getting a new deal, an Obama deal.

They`ve got relatives. They`ve got brothers and sisters and moms and dads
and next door neighbors. And simply, the Republicans starting with Boehner
are going to be on the wrong side of history and it`s not going to show up
right in a poll tonight or tomorrow. But as this website is now handling
50,000 Americans per hour, things are getting a heck of a lot better and
the high percentage of Americans who are getting on there getting the
deals, these stories are being told and the Republicans, they`re doing
everything they possibly can.

There`s not a PR playbook available globally that is going to be able to
fight a positive story when it comes to insurance reform and health care
reform in this country. This is a victory for the Left. Call it what it
is and it is changing the face of America because we`re finally finding out
that we do have compassionate people in our society who are willing to take
a chance, show some guts, force some change, and hope that the rest of the
country comes along. It`s I guess how that hopey-changey thing is working

Get your cellphones out. I want to know what you think tonight`s question.
Will ObamaCare`s success stories overcome conservative propaganda? Text A
for Yes, text B for No to 67622. You can always go to our blog at and of course we`ll bring you the results later on in this

For more, let me bring in California Senator Barbara Boxer. Senator, good
to have you with us tonight. I`m curious.

SEN. BARBARA BOXER (D) California: Thank you.

SCHULTZ: . you know, it is very clear at this point that these states that
have managed health care with their own state exchange are the ones that
are producing all of the positive stories that are out there. It`s far
ahead of the federal exchange. But what kind of reaction are you getting
from your constituents, Senator. What are you hearing in the State of

BOXER: People are so hopeful and they`re so happy and day after day, I
hear it from them. And if you will, I have these two quick quotes for you,
just very quick. Here is one. "Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank
you. I`ve been denied health insurance for three years for preexisting
condition. I can now live again." And here`s another one. "This saved me
more than $2000 a year." And the last one. "Amazing. Very grateful.
First time insured since 1988 due to affordability."

This is so important to all Americans so listen, rooting for failure is not
the American way. And from John Boehner down in that Republican Party for
the most part, that`s what you have. And when you look at my great state,
you`ve got a governor who`s behind it, you`ve got a state legislature,
every state-wide elected official is a Democrat, the two senators, the
majority, the congressional delegation, and we understand that we have to
do better and do more and fix things like glitch. But at the end of the
day, this is really that Massachusetts` plan and Ed, 97 percent of the
people in Massachusetts are insured and that brings peace of mind and

SCHULTZ: Senator, what`s your reaction to the Supreme Court taking up the
contraception mandate?

BOXER: Well, I think it had to be taken up because as you know, they
record opinions all over the place but I really want to make a case here.

If this court is truly for individual freedom, it should think about the
individual rights of the people who work in corporations all across
America. It is their right to make a decision. And I don`t know if you`re
aware of this. It surprised me to learn this, originally, 50 percent of
the people who take birth control of the women take it for a medical


BOXER: . and it prevents cancer and other gynecological problems. So if
an employer is stopping you from that, they`re going to stop you from
getting your kids a vaccine if they are Christian Scientist. So I think --
look, I believe in a conscience cause Obama Administration has went for
religious institutions but that is far as it should go. And then it should
be .

SCHULTZ: What do you .

BOXER:. be between a woman, her doctor, and her God.

SCHULTZ: Yeah. What do you think the outcome`s going to be, Senator? And
if it is not in a favorable outcome, if it allows CEOs in companies to get
between women and their doctor? What does that do to ObamaCare?

BOXER: Well, ObamaCare goes forward. I mean, it doesn`t really impact any
other benefit but let`s be clear. This is an important benefit. You know,
Ed 90 percent of American women have used birth control at some point in
their life and including vast majority of Catholic women. This is not a
fringe issue. So I just don`t want to think about the court doing the
wrong thing. I will have a lot more to say if they do. But I`ve got to
believe they`re in, you know, 21st century. This is -- This should not be
an issue. Birth control should not be controversial.

SCHULTZ: Senator, moving forward in the 2014, do you think ObamaCare, the
Affordable Care Act, is going to be the hot conversation as it has been
since the exchange opened up on the 1st of October? And, I mean, I feel
totally confident that the website is going to be fixed, I mean, it`s a
six-month window to get this thing right. But what are we going to be
talking about in the summer? What are we going to be talking about next
September and October running up to the midterms? I`d like your thoughts
on that.

BOXER: Well to me, it`s very clear. It`s going to be between candidates
who are making this new health care plan work so that our people can have
the peace of mind, but one thing I know, anyone who wants to go back to the
way it was, they`re just not going to get anywhere.

Remember those stories. We were moving toward premiums costing 50 percent
of your income. We had people who could not get health care because they
had a pre existing condition who have to choose between bankruptcy and
their health care. I mean, it`s unbelievable and remember, all Americans
are going to be really benefiting from this now, even those who are -- who
were keeping their Medicare and the rest, there were benefits that were
expanded for everybody. And you know, insurance.


BOXER: . company can`t walk out on you, no more annual limits, no more
lifetime limits. And I think anyone who says they want to go back and
repeal and have no plan, that`s where the Republicans are. I don`t think
the American people that.

SCHULTZ: You know, in our business, we say thanks and sometimes, we say
thanks really fast. And audiences don`t grab it, you know, and like when
we say with a preexisting condition. The pre existing condition, you can
say preexisting condition in a matter of seconds, so quick and boom, it`s
off the screen.

But to that person who has been denied for years because of a preexisting
condition, this is as big as it gets for any consumer. This is real reform
and the American people need to grab this that this is real reform .

BOXER: Yeah.

SCHULTZ: . being told whether you could -- being told whether you can sit
at a cafe counter or not because of the color of your skin, being told
whether you can vote or not because you`re a woman, being told that you can
get equal pay in the workplace, to be told that well no matter what your
health condition is the insurance industry is not going to be able to turn
you away.

How can the Democrats not run on that? I mean, it would seem to me that
this would be an absolute walk into power for the Democrats in the
midterms. Your thoughts.

BOXER: I believe it. I believe you are right. This is a huge issue. We
have had these problems forever and finally it`s getting fixed and you`re
right. Someone who was unable to get insurance knew that they were on the
edge of distraction and lost, and poverty and losing your home and losing

And we cannot hold back and that`s why I think this will be a big issue.
And again, I have to say it works in Massachusetts and that`s the model and
it`s going to work. It`s working in California. We`re going to get the
glitches out and it`s going to be I think a very good issue for Democrats.

SCHULTZ: Glitches are good that means people want it. That`s the big
thing Senator Barbara Boxer, great to have you with us tonight on the Ed
Show. I appreciate your time so much. Thank you.

Remember to answer tonight`s question there at the bottom of the screen and
share your thoughts with us on Twitter at Ed Show and on Facebook. We want
to know what you think on this. Will the positive stories outweigh the
negative in the long run?

Coming up Glenn Beck gets trigger happy on Fox. Plus Rick Santorum can`t
hold a candle in the movie business. Stay with us.


SCHULTZ: And we get the Ed Tour 2014, you go to our website,
and get all of the details. We`re going to be in Fort Lauderdale and in
Seattle, you can sign up there.

Time now for the Trenders. The Ed Show social media nation has decided and
we are reporting. Here are today`s Top Trenders voted on by you.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Surprise. Surprise.

SCHULTZ: The number three Trender, the Beck is back.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Our old pal, Glenn Beck.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You can`t get on the idea of that.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That is now the watchdog of history along with me and

SCHULTZ: Glenn Beck on Fox News with some new props.

GLENN BECK, AUTHOR, "MIRACLES AND MASSACRES": This is an original -- this
is one of only seven guns that was taken .

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They`ll shoot your eye out kid.

GLENN: This one was taken from a sitting eagle, bed sheet from Abraham
Lincoln. You may have the book, I have the bed sheet.


SCHULTZ: The number two Trender, burned.

EchoLight Studios.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Santorum knows a thing or two about bringing people in.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I know the miracle man that you remember.

SCHULTZ: Rick Santorum`s Christmas candle is a box office bum.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The new movies is called the Christmas Candle.

SANTORUM: That`s correct.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Forgive my ignorance but what is this Christmas candle?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s not quite a voodoo stuff.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Quite frankly, it stinks.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You were speaking from the sweater vested hearts.


SCHULTZ: And today`s top Trender, back on track.

ObamaCare has been on a roll over the last couple of weeks.

OBAMA: This website is going to get fixed and we are going to be signing
people up.

SCHULTZ: The federal exchange is working better on a day to day basis.

The Obama Administration has this website set on December 1st.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The system will not work perfectly on December 1st,
but it will operate much better than it did in October.

OBAMA: Folks have fought us every step of the way, but we have kept on

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: By the end of the month, will be able
to operate at the capacity that was originally intended, approximately
50,000 users on the site at the same time.

OBAMA: We just kept on going. We don`t stop.


SCHULTZ: Joining me now is Wendell Potter, Senior Analyst with the Center
for Public Integrity and author of the upcoming e-book ObamaCare: What`s
In It for Me?

Wendell great to you with us tonight. I appreciate your time. What are
the numbers as you know it right now and give us your professional analysis
of how good or bad it is with the numbers.

are going to be very terrific. Already the Administration is saying that
the site can accommodated about 25,000 people at one time. It`ll soon be
up to 50,000 and my understanding is that they expect that they can
accommodate 800,000 people on a given 24-hour period.

So that`s a lot of people. And we`re talking about something else so this
can be spread out over quite a long time. So I think it`s going to be
functioning pretty well. It already is, Ed. I wrote on my column this
week, it features -- it`s about a man who is self-employed, a self-employed
photograph Bill -- Bob Freaux (ph) in St. Louis. He and his wife were
self-employed. If it`s working in Missouri where politicians have tried
for many years now to derail the ObamaCare implementation, it`s going to be
working everywhere. And he was pleasantly surprised to see that he and his
wife now are going to be able to get coverage for the first time in their
married lives, 30 years, Ed.

SCHULTZ: Yeah. Do you believe that the website is the key at this point?
There`s not any problem with the product. I mean, all of these people who
have gotten cancellations are right back in on the federal exchange getting
a better deal. I mean that is the general .


SCHULTZ: . narrative. That`s not to say that some people`s rates aren`t
going to go up. But for the majority of people in, it`s a much better

So the question is .

POTTER: Oh yeah.

SCHULTZ: . when are the insurance companies going to start advertising?
If there`s going to be 30 to 40 million new customers out there, it would
seem to me that there would be an advertising blitz coming from the
insurance industry. When do you think that`s going to start or is it?

POTTER: It will start after the first of the year. It will vary from
state to state. Insurance companies will have different advertising
budgets which you will start seeing that as soon as they feel comfortable
that the website is truly fixed well enough to accommodate a lot of people
at one time. And I`m pretty certain we`ll see it after the first of the
month and leading up until just before Christmas because the -- as you know
the President did or the Administration extended the sign up date until
December 23rd for policies starting on January 1st.

SCHULTZ: Yeah. Well, in the insurance industry, isn`t it hard to go out
and compete for, you know, customers, when customers can`t get the proper
access to the kind of products that are on the market so why advertise? I
mean, it`s a chicken and egg kind of thing.

POTTER: That`s exactly right that`s why we haven`t seen a lot of
advertising although I`ve been asked been a lot of times in California for
the past few weeks and Covered California has been advertising quite a bit
in the states that are operating their own exchanges. You are seeing
those, ask me we`re seeing some insurers already advertising to compete for
business. We`ll be seeing that all across the country in the coming days.

SCHULTZ: Well, here in the state of Minnesota where I`m broadcasting from
tonight, just outside the studio there was a bus that went by this
afternoon and of course Minnesota is known as the land of 10,000 lakes and
one of the billboards on the side of the bus was health care in Minnesota
MnSCU 10,000 reasons why to get health care in MnSCU which is the state

I mean, there are good stories that are happening in a big way and there
are states that are rendering good decisions for people and helping them
out to get the right coverage. But do you think that these improvements in
the website will stop the conservative smear campaign, or is this something
that the conservative moving to the America is going to be harping on until
the midterms?

POTTER: No, were harping on because there are very invested in this. You
can rest assured, Ed that -- and I use to do this for a living, somewhere
in some conference room, some strategies, communication strategies,
pollsters are convening to try to figure out what were words will work.
How can they manipulate public opinion, how can they create an alternate
universe, an alternate reality in the face of all these success stories?

They will try to do their best to campaign against this for the rest of
this year and throughout 2014. You can rest assure they will.

SCHULTZ: And nothing beats a real life story of somebody`s life being
turned around or $350 a month savings to a middle class family or someone
who gets insurance and doesn`t have to pay very much for it and it`s such a
turnaround. I don`t know what bullet point out of what corporate board
room is going to overcome the real life stories are going to be out there
across this country.

Wendell Potter great to have you with us tonight, I appreciate your time.
Thanks you so much.

Coming up, don`t let the corporate grinch steal Thanksgiving still ahead.
In Pretenders tonight possibly the worst ObamaCare comparison yet, but next
I`m taking your questions Ask Ed Live, just ahead stay tuned at the Ed Show


SCHULTZ: Welcome back to the Ed Show. We love hearing from our viewers
tonight in Ask Ed Live. Our first question comes from Mike Hutchinson, "Is
there any possible accomplishment the President could achieve that the GOP
would give him credit for?"

Absolutely not. There isn`t anything this President can do that would
satisfy the GOP even when it comes to money. You can go back to March of
2009 when the market was floating around 6500. Today, it`s over 16,000,
but all they do is called President Obama a socialist. They don`t give him
any credit for staying out of the way of big business and letting the Wall
Street roll. Now, there is absolutely nothing this President can do that
would satisfy conservatives.

Our next question is from Steve Wallace, he wants to know "What`s you`re
favorite holiday, Thanksgiving or Christmas?"

Well, I can say a lot of good things about Thanksgiving because I like to
eat and love having the family around, but there`s really nothing better
than Christmas, the birth of Jesus, the warmth of family. And I think for
this country and community, Christmas is an amazing time of year.

It`s nice to know that the majority of Americans really, really feel good
this time of year.

Stick around Rapid Response panel coming up next.

your CNBC Market Wrap. The DOW took up just under 1 point, and the S and P
did the same, and the NASDAQ added 23 points.

Home prices edged up 0.7 percent in September. That`s a 13.3 percent jump
from a year ago, making it the biggest game in nearly eight years.
Consumer confidence took a hit in November down to its lowest level in
seven months.

Tiffany shares are up after topping expectations in the third quarter.
Conference jumped at 50 percent driven by strong sales. That`s it from
CNBC first in business worldwide.


SCHULTZ: Welcome back to the Ed Show. Well, it`s been a year of
unprecedented partisan gridlock in Washington. But, you know, it turns out
there are actually is something that we can all agree on at least by the

Call it a holiday miracle. According to a HuffPost YouGov Poll, 62 percent
of Americans think businesses should close on Thanksgiving. So workers can
have the day off. And a poll found virtually no partisan divide, 65
percent of Democrats, 63 percent of Republicans, and 60 percent of
independents all agree businesses should close on Thanksgiving. Big
retailers now like Walmart, Staples, Kmart, and Target are planning on
opening their doors earlier this year in attempt to rake in some extra

But a whopping 80 percent of respondents said that they have no plans to
shop on Thanksgiving Day at all. Is this a change in America being forced
by the corporate voice?

Joining me now our Rapid Response panel, The Grio`s Joy Reid and Democratic
Strategist Bob Shrum, great to have both of you with us tonight. Joy, you
first, I mean, is this just a case of corporate greed? And once again, the
workers are expected to do a little bit more for profit. Your thoughts.

JOY REID, MSNBC CONTRIBUTOR: Yeah. No, absolutely. I think that the
shame of it is that the retailers that are the most interested in this
policy are those that pay the lowest wages. So you have low-wage workers
to begin with who now have to leave their family and their Thanksgiving
presuming they can afford to have a Thanksgiving on the wage as if they`re
earning to come in and work. I think it is unfair.

SCHULTZ: Bob Shrum, this is the free market at work and the free market at
work is that corporate control over workers is really what the story is.
How do you view this? Are we going to see a change down the road that is
just the norm to have companies opening up on Thanksgiving?

BOB SHRUM, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: I think we are probably. And I think
the most important thing about this is what Joy just said which is to see
if we can get people paid better, raise the minimum wage. Make sure people
have benefits. Look, a lot of what`s happening here is being driven by
economics. The fact is that people shop online and the folks who are
processing those orders on Thanksgiving Day are at work. They`re just not
in the store.

The second thing is your competitors are doing it. So you start doing it.
So it`s going to be -- I think it`s going to be a very difficult trend to
stop. The one thing I was amused by in all that polling there, Ed was only
7 percent of people said they`re going to shop on Thanksgiving Day. I
think maybe there`s some fudging going on in that polling because it was
only 7 percent. If the demand wasn`t there, these folks wouldn`t be

SCHULTZ: Well, that`s I think very profound. Consumers go in looking for
a deal not looking for somebody to get better wages. But if people don`t
respond and numbers are down, is this -- could be a short-term thing or do
you think this is the way it`s going to turn?

SHRUM: Well, I think it`s going to turn this way because I think people
are responding. They are going to the stores. This is a big experiment.
And by the way, it`s not just the stories you mentioned, mainline stores.
I mean the traditional stores. A lot of them are now going to open on
Thanksgiving Day.

So, look, I`m not for it but I think it`s driven by economics, you know,
the Pope today issued his first long letter and denounced excessive
consumerism and trickle down economics. I mean, he almost sounded like you
and part of it, but the truth of the matter is it is driven by demand. If
the demand wasn`t there, the stores wouldn`t open.

SCHULTZ: What do you make of this potential strikes that are coming up,
Joy? Will they have an impact? I mean, will -- do you think that
consumers -- of course, there will be news coverage out there in local
markets about people that are standing out in front of this big glamorous
who are trying to make a dollar. I mean, I think at this age of income
inequality, this is really want to pay attention to see what consumers do
for workers if anything.

REID: You know, I think unfortunately, we are sort of becoming to America
to use the old -- hate to bring him John Edwards term. In that, you have
it because in economy that is viewed 100 percent for two things.
Shareholders and consumers who have enough of an income to be able to
demand convenience and low wage workers are sort of becoming the new thing.

Unfortunately, business, this is the business of making money. They`re not
in the business of providing workers with stability or high enough income,
so they pay themselves can be consumers, and there is just no incentive.
As Bob said, for these businesses .


REID: . to back down from it and the protest they believe, I think in this
corporate board rooms will pass and even if they happen, there were a one
day story but the ongoing dirge of low wages and people not even able to
shop at the stores where they work. I think that`s the long-term story,
and unfortunately, I don`t think it`s ending anytime soon.

SCHULTZ: Well, all of these companies that I mentioned hate unions. They
don`t want to bargain, they don`t like collective bargaining. They drive
down wages as best as they can and they advertised about what a great place
it is to work.

You know, Walmart made $19 billion last year. I mean, do they have to be
open on Thanksgiving Day? No, they don`t but they can make more money
doing it. At least there`s a calculation there that they can and no doubt,
Walmart takes center stage in this debate. The retailer has repeatedly
come under fire for its low wages.

And of course earlier this month that was reported that a Walmart in Ohio
was even holding a food drive for its own employees in need. Walmart
workers and their supporters are planning protested 1500 Walmart stores on
Black Friday hoping to bring attention to the workers who are underpaid,
workers who are now being forced to work on Thanksgiving.

Now, last week, the National Labor Relations Board General Council found
Walmart workers had experienced unlawful retaliation in the form of being
fired, disciplined, or threatened for engaging in Black Friday strikes last

On Monday, Walmart replaced Chief Executive Officer Mike Duke with company
veteran Doug McMillon, but there`s nothing to suggest that the change in
leadership makes a change in the company`s anti worker policies.

I mean, I think that these strikes that are going to take place in 1500
stores, these are brave employees, Bob Shrum. Will anything come of it?
Could this snowball?

SHRUM: I don`t know. And I think that the biggest thing that has to
happen here is first we have to raise the minimum wage. Secondly,
consumers have to be sensitive to this whole issue. And thirdly, you know,
Henry Ford taught as a lesson a century ago, and he was by the way not pro-
union, and he understood that if he didn`t pay his workers the kind of
wages that turn them into consumers, that it was going to hurt his car
company, was going to hurt the economy overall. So I think that`s the .


SHRUM: . really important consideration here. The other thing is, you
know, Walmart`s going to open if Kmart`s going to open. I mean, this is
the problem of the commons. If you`re going to get this, if you want to
close stores on Thanksgiving, they`re all going to have to close. It`s
going to have to be like Christmas Day. We have at least not yet .


SHRUM: . reached the point where everybody shopping on Christmas.
Although, I suspect, a lot of people are online.

REID: And, you know, Ed the big irony in what Bob was saying was that that
big bowl that you have in economic growth after World War II was precisely
because unionized labor and even non-unionized shops understood that they
had to pay workers a way. So that they can then buy the car, and the
refrigerators, et cetera. That it produced a huge bulge but today that is
all been de-coupled.

Right now, companies are not coupled to the -- that wages of their workers
for them to be consumers. They only care about building shareholder value
which often means cutting salaries and cutting payroll cost to squeeze
every additional share point out of their stock. And unfortunately, that`s
where we are.

SCHULTZ: Yeah. Well, if Walmart was tightening the margins I could
understand, but I don`t think it says much more if we`re going to be
holding food drives. Their employees are holding food drives to help out
other employees who were struggling. Great to have both of you with us
tonight, Joy Reid, Bob Shrum, thank you so much.

SHRUM: Happy Thanksgiving.

REID: Happy Thanksgiving, Ed.

SCHULTZ: You can count on me eating the turkey. There`s no question about

SHRUM: I like to stop.

REID: We`re here.

SCHULTZ: I go right for the neck as soon as it comes out of the oven. I`m
going to taste that right away. That`s the way that is. All right.

REID: Amen.

SCHULTZ: Coming up, the do nothing Congress isn`t showing any signs of
feeling shutdown deadline pressure. Stay with us.


SCHULTZ: And in Pretenders tonight, grows in confidence. Martha MacCallum
is the anchor. The Fox News host thinks that ObamaCare is worst than
Hurricane Katrina and the Iraq War.


MARTHA MACCALLUM, FOX NEWS HOST: What I keep coming back to and all of
these is that unlike other issues, Katrina or the Iraq War that we`ve seen
in other -- in the past second term, this is something that touches so many
people`s lives across the country. And you don`t know whether the
President`s going to be able to successfully dodge it.


SCHULTZ: Well, here`s the handy chart of issues MacCallum mentions.
Nearly 4500 American soldiers died in Iraq, not to mention the tens of
thousands more who were injured. Over 1800 people died in Hurricane
Katrina. Zero people have died from the Affordable Care Act.

George W. Bush would have prayed for a problem besides this I.T.
Department. If Martha MacCallum believes starting a war and mishandling a
disaster is the same as waiting for a web page to load, she can keep on


SCHULTZ: Welcome back to the Ed Show. This is the story for the folks who
take a shower after work. Now for holiday shoppers, it`s a numbers game.
We are 28 days away from Christmas at shopping days anyway.

And of course at Washington, you know, if you`re scoring at home, it`s a
numbers game there as well. But there doesn`t seem to be a sense of
urgency to get a deal or to meet any deadline when it comes to a budget.
There are only 10 legislative working days until another government
shutdown, just what you want to hear, right?

Republicans and Congress have no plans to prevent it from happening again.


REP. PAUL RYAN, (R) WISCONSIN: It`s very clear that a government shutdown
does not stop ObamaCare because the government did shutdown and didn`t stop

So I don`t think that`s going to be repeated .


SCHULTZ: Democratic lawmakers are poising concerns with Paul Ryan`s
failure to present a GOP budget proposal.


REP. JIM CLYBURN, (D) SOUTH CAROLINA: January 15th is a day that will put
us at the front door of another budget shutdown, if we do not come up with
a budget.

REP. CHRIS VAN HOLLEN, (D), MARYLAND: The Republicans are now chairing
this conference committee, it`s their turn. They`re in charge and all that
we put our priorities forward, we have not seen any plan, not any plan from
our Republican colleagues.

REP. STENY HOYER, (D) MARYLAND: America is rightfully disgusted with the
Congress of the United States. Me too.


SCHULTZ: So cutting to the chase. Republicans refused to put any new
revenues on the table. Democrats are holding strong to protect the big
three, Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security. This puts defense spending
in the bull`s eye.

If no solution is presented by December 13th, the current Congress could go
down as one of the most unproductive in modern history.

Congressman John Garamendi of California who sits on the House Armed
Services Committee joins us tonight. Congressman, good to have you with us
on the program.

Let`s talk money. If there`s not going to be any new revenues on the
table. If the Democrats are going to protect the big three, the bull`s eye
now turns on to defense spending. Is there money that can be save there
that could bring us to a budget resolution were we can move forward in this

REP. JOHN GARAMENDI, (D) CALIFORNIA: Well, of course you can make cuts but
you`re going to really significantly harm national security. There are
places that we could make cuts, some of the nuclear weapon programs could
be delayed and even put off, and not done at all.

But the bottom line is the sequestration is not just the Department of
Defense. If you`re interested in all time is research, that`s going to be
cut, cancer research, heart research, energy research. The kind of things
that we need to do to protect our health as well as to build our economy,
those things get cut along wit the military. So it`s a very, very serious

And the economy, the businesses simply don`t know what to expect and that`s
going to slow everything down. Last time, it was $24 billion right out of
the economy. This time, I just don`t understand what the Republicans are
thinking. I really don`t get it.

SCHULTZ: What is the fix here, John? What is the solution here as you see

GARAMENDI: Well, I think there`s two things. First of all, recognize that
the deficit has been dramatically reduced. And if we get this economy
going, it will be further reduced and we could find ourselves not at a
balanced budget but very close to that. So get the economy going. Do the
kind of things that build the economy, the critical investments,
investments and infrastructure, your research and your energy programs.
Those are the kind of things. Make wise cuts.

I mentioned the nuclear weapons. Why we need to build to spend $12 billion
to rebuild one of our nuclear bombs? I`ll never understand. But there are
things that we must do, make sure that our levies are built, our roads, and
all of those things.

So you get the economy moving, make wise cuts, eliminate unnecessary tax
breaks. For example, the oil industry, one of the most profitable or
indeed the most profitable industry in the world continues to get massive
tax breaks from the American tax payers all of which everybody else gets to
make up and pay for it.


GARAMENDI: So you can bring revenue in by eliminating those unnecessary
and unwise tax breaks.

SCHULTZ: And of course, that would be new revenue on the table which the
Republicans have said no to every time that Boehner would never even bring
something like that to the floor to vote. So we`re kind of in a quagmire
here. I want to know about ObamaCare. Will the Affordable Care Act .


SCHULTZ: . be part of this equation moving forward on the budget? I mean,
you heard Ryan say it didn`t work. Their strategy didn`t work last time.
Are we going to hear the same song and dance here coming down the stretch?

GARAMENDI: Well, we could. Certainly, the Republicans have seen
themselves on a role. They`ve been beating their chests. They`re kind of
doing that kind of dance before they kick off. And it could very well
carry over and they may try once again to defund, delay, or somehow dispose
of the Affordable Health Care Act. If they do so .


GARAMENDI: . I think there`s going to be a serious problem for them to say
nothing of the country because it will quite likely lead to the shutdown of

SCHULTZ: So the next stage of sequestration cuts are going to be brutal.
And it just seems to me that the Republicans are OK with that, that they
would allow this to just go forward and do a continuing resolution with the
sequestration cuts. Your thoughts.

GARAMENDI: Well, that`s exactly what we`re hearing today. We heard it
from the leadership of the Senate, at the Minority leadership, and also in
the House. They`re shrugging their shoulders and say, "Oh, it`s OK because
it`s going to further reduce the size of government." But wait a minute.
Exactly, what are you reducing? You`re reducing the military defense,
you`re reducing the research for all of the critical things that we need in
our future from telecommunications, energy, health care. That`s what`s
going to get reduced. It just -- It`s really nonsense and is terrible,
terrible public policy.

At some point -- well, just take look, the Europeans have recognized that
austerity budgets have not led to a better economy in Europe.

SCHULTZ: Exactly.

GARAMENDI: We`re in the third year of an austerity budget and it is not
growing the economy. It is shrinking the deficit that we`re into a long-
term decline if we don`t make the critical investments.

SCHULTZ: All right. And we`re down to 10 days in the legislative side to
get it done. It doesn`t seem good at this point. Congressman John
Garamendi, good to have you with us tonight. Have a great Thanksgiving. I
appreciate your time. All the best to you.

That`s the Ed Show. I`m Ed Schultz. Politics Nation with Reverend Al
Sharpton starts right now. Good evening Rev.


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