All In With Chris Hayes, Monday, June 23rd, 2014
Read the transcript from the Monday show
THE ED SHOW
June 23, 2014
Guest: Bruce Bartlett, Rick Weiland, Bob Schrum, Leo Gerard, Rick Nolan,
ED SCHULTZ, MSNBC HOST: Good evening Americans and welcome to The Ed Show
live from Detroit Lakes, Minnesota. I`m ready to go. Let`s get to work.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BOBBY JINDAL, (R) LOUISIANA GOVERNOR: There is rebellion brewing in the
East United States of America.
SEAN HANNITY: You got to believe that something is brewing here, you know.
JINDAL: This administration has assault in our religious liberty.
UNIDENTIFIED MAE: This is what pundits call red meat for debate.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (inaudible) Republican Party, how`s your resolution
going through for the impeachment of President Barack Obama.
UNIDENTIFIED MAE: Tell the federal government that we have left.
UNIDENTIFIED MAE: After the Bundy thing they went over there for a couple
UNIDENTIFIED MAE: We win this revolution.
UNIDENTIFIED MAE: That old government isn`t almighty God, you know, they
can`t just go around, pushing people around, doing whatever they want
UNIDENTIFIED MAE: Jared (ph) can`t make that government and that police.
He -- I mean he was talking about killing cops.
UNIDENTIFIED MAE: These people are holding jobs out to be pickers or not.
JINDAL: There`s rebellion brewing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: Good to have you with us tonight folks. Thanks for watching. I
want to start tonight talking about words. What do they mean? Is anybody
ever held accountable if they say something? Oh I can say in my career,
I`ve had to be held accountable a few times. But let`s look at what`s
happening in America right now. Antigovernment sentiment in America has
reached, I think a very disturbing level and folks on the right have got to
tone it down.
Now, this doesn`t seem to face elected officials around the country. For
instance on Saturday, Louisiana Governor Bobby Jindal spokes of a rebellion
and a hostile takeover of Washington. Think about that. Of rebellion and
the hostile takeover of Washington. I was in front of a crowed today in
Virginia Minnesota talking about jobs, talking about trade, talking about
fighting for American workers.
What if I had told that crowed today in Virginia Minnesota, "You know what
you got to do? You got to rebel and you got to have a hostile takeover of
Washington?" That`s what`s going to happen. That`s how you got to do. I
don`t think Comcast, I don`t think my boss would probably like that too
much. But an elected official on the right, he can say it and just get
away with it. Does Bobby Jindal, the governor of Louisiana -- I have a
question I just -- does he even follow the news? Does he think that his
rhetoric just spins of in the outer space and nobody consumes it?
I believe it all stared in April with this scene at the Bundy ranch.
Antigovernment militias aimed their rifles at BLM agents in what I termed
is a very dangerous stand off. The militias were supporting free loading
races rancher Cliven Bundy. The whole situation was encouraged by a
certain anchor of wrong fox news. Now, months later, Bundy supporters,
well they actually got violent. Two people present at a Bundy standoff
shot and killed two police officers eating lunch in Las Vegas. The shooter
were screaming of a revolution.
They placed a revolutionary war era Gadsden flag over one officer`s body
that read, "Don`t tread on me." One week later, there was another
antigovernment shooting. On June 14th a BLM agent and the California
highway patrolmen, they were shot in Sierra Nevada Mountains.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The ranger called for CHP backup before he went up the
ragged dirt road, 9 miles north of Nevada City. They might have
interrupted an early dinner. Emergency medical supplies litter the area
around the camp site where one or both of the law enforcement officers
exchanged gun fire with the suspect.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: Thankfully, both officers survived the shooting and are in good
condition. The shooter was 60 year old Brent Cole who was injured in the
gun fight. Cole was allegedly illegally camping on federal lands when the
shooting occurred. Now, this guy is an antigovernment conspiracy theorist.
No doubt about it. He posted a number of articles on Facebook, sympathetic
to the Bundy ranch militia.
Two shootings against law enforcement by antigovernment nuts, completely
unacceptable. Nobody on the right calls him for it. Nobody thinks that
anybody is responsible for anything. Antigovernment rhetoric from
conservative media and Republican politicians, I believe fuel the fire
here. On Saturday, Louisiana Governor Bobby Jindal gave us a prime example
of this, speaking to the faith and freedom correlation.
Jindal said, "I can sense right now a rebellion brewing amongst these
United States. Where people are ready for a hostile takeover of Washington
D.C., to preserve the American dream for our children and grandchildren."
Hostile takeover, what is a hostile takeover? Does that mean somebody
might show up with the firearm? Does that mean that there might be a group
of people coming in just beating the living tar out of law makers? What is
Governor Jindal, you need to explain what the hell you`re talking about
because this is out of control. You`re an elected official. You have a
responsibility. And that kind of talk flames the fire, I think across this
country. This isn`t the first time Jindal has talked about a rebellion.
Here`s what he told the crowed in CPAC back in March.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JINDAL: There is rebellion brewing this United States of America. People
like you and me are saying enough is enough. We don`t want to become like
Europe. We`re going to make sure that our children inherit the same
freedoms, the great opportunities that we we`re blessed because we are all
blessed to live in the greatest country in the history of the world.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: You can`t blame this act of violence on Jindal or the
conservative media but they`re dead silo, aren`t they? And their comments
certainly do not help the situations. State governments, I believe are
also out of control. This is kind of like a trickle down effect. It`s a
domino effect. Texas Republicans have adopted one of the most radical
state platforms we`ve ever seen. Democrats are calling it disgusting. Oh,
it`s not over. Just this past weekend the South Dakota Republican Party at
their state convention passed the resolution calling for the impeachment of
President Obama on Saturday.
They claim the president has violated his ought of office in numerous ways.
It`s the turning of the hates. That`s what it is. It`s the constant
drumbeat of anti. Not about policy, not about what`s better for America.
Everything is negative, negative, negative.
Republicans around the county, I think need to cool the rhetoric and show
some leadership. When they speak, people listen and they`re backup by 40
lob, 400 rightwing talkers across the country.
The Conservative Media and Republican politicians have a responsibility to
stay away from that kind of speech because it could insight violence. It
could. Jindal`s hostile takeover comments are just the latest example. It
is out of control. And I wonder how the conservative media would report
it. If I met the next jobs rally with the bunch of union workers around
who I think should get politically involved. If I tell them that, "You
know what? You got to be armed. You got to be dangerous."
Who said that? Michele Bachmann., I want people armed and dangerous. How
about -- are they aren`t in dangerous enough for you Michelle? Let`s see
some other comments. What if I were to stand in front of the crowd and
say, "You need to arm yourself. You need to go to Washington and we need a
hostile takeover. We need a storm in the capital." That`s what we need to
do. How would the Conservative Media report that?
I think the mainstream media has no guts. I think that they side with
Jindal. I think that they`re looking for action. I think that the
conservative media in this country ooze this country. Truly, truly an
apology for not standing up and saying, "Could we get a definition Governor
Jindal on what you really mean by a hostile takeover? Does this include
firearms? Does this include a march on Washington that could get out of
hands?" What if a black broadcaster anywhere in this country were to talk
about a hostile takeover? How do you think it would be reported?
Get your cellphones out I want to know what you think. Tonight`s question,
"Should elected Republicans cool their rhetoric?" Text A for yes, text B
for no to 67622. You can always go to our blog at ed.msnbc.com. We`ll
bring you the results later on in the show. And I challenge Governor
Jindal`s office to put on a statement tonight to explain what a hostile
takeover is and explain what he means by rebellion.
Let me bring in Bruce Bartlett, Former Reagan advisor and Former Bush 41
policy advisor. Mr. Bartlett, good to have you with us tonight. You know,
the conservatives today love to quote and point to the example of Ronald
Reagan. Would Reagan use the term hostile takeover? Would Reagan use the
term rebellion in terms of people rising up against their government? Give
me some perspective on this of where the conservative use to be and where
they are now?
BRUCE BARTLETT, FMR.REAGAN ADVISOR: Well first of all, let me make the
point that there`ve always been crazies in every political party. But the
difference is that once upon a time, not that many years ago, the elites,
elites in the Republican Party try to dumping down the craziness of some of
the nuts at the grass roots level. For example we have the John Birch
Society, which was essentially the Tea party of its day. And Bill Buckley
editor of National Review Magazine, the most respective conservative
publication in the United States basically read them out of the Republican
Party and the conservative movement because he knew this was damaging to
conservatives in the long run.
This is a view that has no longer shared by the policy elites in the
conservative movement in the Republican Party. Now, Ronald Reagan used,
you know, rhetoric as well as any president but I don`t remember him ever
being anywhere near is extreme as people like Bobby Jindal today. And
frankly on policy, he would be barely even consider a Republican today
because he support the tax increases, amnesty for illegal aliens, he
support a gang control, any number of issues that would`ve gotten him rid
out of any conservative or Republican party meeting in this country today.
SCHULTZ: Mr. Barlett. Is it your impression and I`m not try to put words
in your mouth but are these people trying to outdo one another when it
comes to being radical?
BARTLETT: Oh, I don`t think there`s any question about that. That`s one
of a problem just as the escalation of rhetoric because every potential
Republican candidate for president in 2016 has to try to positions himself
to the right of everybody else. And since they can`t really position
himself on policy since they all have the same identical positions, all
that`s really left is rhetoric and it`s really getting very out of control.
I agree with you completely about that.
SCHULTZ: You know, we don`t see the Conservative Media or the Republicans
elected officials denouncing any of these antigovernment activist and I
just find it amazing and they just continue to throw rhetoric that could be
interpreted as encouragement or am I wrong on that?
BARTLETT: Well, I think that it`s even worst tempting your intro was
suggested because you now have people like Dick Cheney, a man who was once
respected in this country who just yesterday I believe accused President
Obama of treason. And well you have people like Donald Trump who still
publicly question whether Obama was even born in the United States and
nobody says, "You`re crazy Don. Stop saying such nutty lies and crazy
things that`s hurting us." Because they don`t believe it is hurting them.
They believe that they have to say these things to be viable, credible
inside the Republican Party.
SCHULTZ: Bruce Bartlett, good to have you with us tonight. I appreciate
your time. If I may, I`d like to go back and focus on the state of South
Dakota in their convention over the weekend.
Let me bring in Rick Weiland who is running for the senate in South Dakota.
Rick, the Republican Party this weekend adopted a resolution to impeach the
president. Your reaction to what is happening and what has always been
someone of a populous state, the state of South Dakota. This is rather a
radical amendment, is it not? And are you surprised by it?
RICK WEILAND, U.S. SENATE CANDIDATE (D-SD): Well, it sure is radical and
it`s unfortunate Ed. I have to tell, you know, I`ve been traveling to
every time in South Dakota during my campaign in the last 12 months. I`ve
been to every town and I`m going back to every town over the course to the
next several months and I don`t think what happened at the South Dakota
Republican convention is really representative of the people of South
Dakota or even a majority of Republican voters in South Dakota. And that`s
why I think it`s so unfortunate and I think it was very extreme.
It`s the same group of extreme sort of wing of the Republican Party that
brought us to shutdown that the government last fallen. And I believe it`s
going to be rejected in November. I don`t believe that you can get away
with that kind of vitriol, that kind of hate and get elected. So, you
know, it`s unfortunate. The thing that bothered me -- if could just add,
the thing that really bothered me --
WEILAND: -- that was something you said earlier that the leaders of the
Republican party here in South Dakota, in the future, leadership including
my opponent are so intimidated by this extreme wing of our party here, of
the Republican party that they were willing to, you know, standby and let
something this embarrassing happen to the people in South Dakota. And I
have to hold them -- go ahead. I`m sorry.
SCHULTZ: Well that`s my next question. Senator John Thune, I mean, is he
standing with the platform of the Republican Party or is he denouncing this
-- and it is antigovernment rhetoric too, to suggest that the president
should be impeach when clear that there hasn`t been any lost broke. And I
mean, where does John Thune stand on this?
WEILAND: Well obviously John Thune was there along with Mike Browns and
Christy Nome and the leadership, and future leadership of the Republican
Party. And the fact that they didn`t standup and say, you know, they were
opposed to it. They did not want a one peep against it. You have to hold
them responsible and I think it`s a real stand...
WEILAND: -- on the people of South Dakota. You know, this kind of
politics is a real threat or democracy because it substitutes hate for
reason. It substitutes impeachment motives for rational discussion. In
fact, you know, it even substitutes impeachment for the casting of ballots
and it`s go to stop.
WEILAND: It`s not good for our country.
SCHULTZ: Well, John Thune needs to standup and just tell the people of
America because there are some that have suggested that he would be a
presidential candidate and of course he says he`s not running. But he is a
senator from a state that has pass a resolution to impeach the president.
That John Thune stand by that resolution and with the party platform in the
state. I think he should answer to that.
Rick Weiland, good to have you with us tonight.
WEILAND: So do I.
SCHULTZ: I appreciate your time. We`ll have you back for sure. Thanks so
Remember to answer tonight`s question there at the bottom of the screen.
Share your thoughts with this on Twitter at ED Show and on Facebook, we
want to know what you think.
Coming up, saving the backbone of American manufacturing. The Rapid
Response panel weighs in on pressures facing the U.S. steel industry. But
first, the Iraq war architects refused to learn from the past. Trenders is
next. Stay with us, we are right back for the ED Show.
SCHULTZ: Time now for the Trenders, social media action. This where you
can find us and be a part of the Ed team. You can get my podcast at
wegoted.com and Rawstory.com in ring of fire radio. Join the team. The Ed
Show social media nation has decided and we are reporting.
Here are today`s top Trenders voted on by you.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Come on, we got to go.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The number three Trender, out of this world.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is extraordinary project by people with vision,
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: After 2000 years of work the immunity Illudium Q-36
explosive space modulator.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Scientists want to put earth links on Mars by 2026.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Humans will land on Mars, the next giant leap for
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The number two Trender, kissing Mrs. Cup (ph).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Beyonce.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Kid president gulches over a smutch with Beyonce.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I kissed Beyonce.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And it happened.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you think Jay Z was mad?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It depends.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You think he should be jealous?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yup, he should be totally jealous.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And today`s top Trender, war and remembrance.
WILLIAM KRISTOL: One of the things I worried about 12 years ago and then I
worry about today is that there will be another 9/11 attack and that the
next time it will be with weapons fire deadlier then airline tickets and
I think I went to war from (inaudible), it was the right thing to do and
necessary and just (inaudible) to it.
JOHN BOEHNER: White House is known for months about this situation in
BARACK OBAMA, 44TH AND CURRENT PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA:
American combat troops are not going to be fighting in Iraq again.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Iraq war cheerleaders refuse to apologize.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If we spend our time debating what happened 11 or 12
years ago, we`re going to miss the threat that is going and that we do
KRISTOL: I`m not apologize for something that I didn`t -- that I think was
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: Joining us tonight Bob Shrum, Warschaw Professor of politics at
USC and Democratic strategist. Bob, good to have you with us tonight.
It was very clear that Dick Cheney is not going to back off on his
strategy, it`s all about making the American people think that the
president is so wrong headed on counter terrorism and not fighting at the
way they did. What`s the mission here as you see this all unfold here Bob?
BOB SHRUM, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Well, their losing control of the dialog
in Republican Party and people like Graham Paul (ph) criticizing them.
Only 20 percent of the country would support their approach to Iraq. The
truth is that Dick Cheney and the Neocons shouldn`t mention the word Iraq
in the past or present tense outside of the confines of confessional.
Now, I know why they don`t want to talk about the past. They have not only
mistaken, they not only lied to us into a war where there were no weapons
of mass destruction. They remove the counter weight to Iran, created the
potential for the Shia crescent to from Baghdad -- from Terran, all the way
to the Mediterranean sea, which is only blocked at this point by the way by
the Sunni insurgency which has huge problems because it contains incredible
terrorist elements. And that invasion is what unleashed that on Iraq.
You want to talk about the present? Ask these guys what they would do
differently. Now, I think they yearn to send in a lot of troops. Most of
the time they won`t say it or they`ll say something like air power. But
the truth is Cheney yesterday, when he was chased around on ABC news,
finally said, "Well, look, they asked for 300 of -- we`re sending 300
advisers. They asked for 20,000." That`s insane. There is no support for
it in this country. It`s not going to happen and it shouldn`t happen.
SCHULTZ: Well, Dick Cheney is almost presenting the argument that if we
continue to do what Obama`s way that we are going to get hit. He say`s one
of the things that he`s been worried about all along is that there might be
another 9/11. Well is that --
SHRUM: Well as long as the --
SCHULTZ: -- mean that if we do if his way we`re not going to have
another 9/11? I mean that`s would he seems to be insinuating here.
SHRUM: Well, I suspect that under both of Bush Administration and the
Obama Administration, there had been a number of potential threats that we
don`t know about which have been averted and the attacks have been
prevented on the U.S. But Dick Cheney and the Neocons went into a Iraq
with an insane theory that somehow are the democracy was going break out
all across the Middle East. We see how that is turned out. It ignored
1,400 years --
SHRUM: -- of history, a bitter entity against the Shias and the Sunnis
and we`re not going to prevent another 9/11 by somehow or rather going back
in there with huge forces. In fact, we may invite more entity from the
very people who were after as now.
You know, Joe Biden deserves a little bit of credit here. 10 or 11 years
ago, he was saying this is an impossible situation in a county that`s
artificially growing up by the great power after World War I. Maybe we
need to federalize it or partition it into Cornish, Sunni and Shia areas,
that maybe the ultimate outcome.
And then to protect ourselves we`re probably going to have to send a very
clear message that in areas the terrorists may control, if that`s what
happens. And John Kerry is trying to avert that by getting an inclusive
government in Iraq, that very, very tough assignment. But if that happens,
then we have to send a message that those guys are going to face the full
force of the United States in terms of the kinds of actions that we we`ve
been taking in Yemen not in terms of sending in to 20, 30, or 40 or 50,000
We tried that. It didn`t work.
SCHULTZ: Senator Majority Leader Harry Reid took aim at Bill Kristol with
his tweets saying, "The only thing I want to hear from the Iraq war
architects is an apology." Bill Kristol isn`t going to admit his wrong.
He`s never going to run for offices, he`s never going to be in any position
of authority, so he`ll just pay a hack out there, spewing the conservative
line project for the American Century. I think that`s really what those
folks are all about.
So how much of political problem is this going to be for the Republicans if
that all and what it should be there -- should there be a constant counter
offensive by the Democrats to make sure that people don`t forget?
SHRUM: Well I think the Democrats ought to be out there saying that what
the president is done is measured, it`s right, the American people agree
with the Obama decisions. But you could see another chapter of Civil War
in the Republican Party. I mean you have Rand Paul pending a piece in the
Wall Street Journal saying that these guys have been so wrong for so long
no, one should listen to them.
So I think you`re going to see in the 2016 --
SHRUM: -- Republican primary a huge debate about this versus people who
want to be more restrain, less involve and people who like Bill Kristol
still hold blindly to this theory that somehow or other the exercise of
American power putting troops can bring democracy at the point of a gun.
It hasn`t work. It won`t work and the country is not going to do it again.
SCHULTZ: But in this house races Bob, I mean, I know there`s a lot of
gerrymandering going on and it`s by the numbers, it looks a little tougher
for the Democrats obviously. But, I mean if these election officials go
home and in a Town Hall Meeting someone stands up and says, "What do you
going to do about Iraq?" What are they going say? Did I side with Dick
Cheney? Do they -- they can`t side with the President. They`re kind of --
SHRUM: No. They`re --
SCHULTZ: -- putting a pickle, aren`t they?
SHRUM: Yeah. Well they`re going to evade the whole thing. They`re just
going to attack the president because the constituencies they appeal to
don`t like Obama and their answer on everything, whether it`s the highway
trust fund --
SHRUM: -- the export, import bank, Iraq. Is just attack Obama, blame
Obama first and they`re not going to put a plan out there about what they
would actually do, anymore than they`re ever going to tell us what the
replaced part of repeal and replace ObamaCare means. It`s just attack
Obama all the time --
SCHULTZ: Right Bob.
SHRUM: -- everyday.
SCHULTZ: Bob Shrum, great to have you with us here on the Ed Show.
SHRUM: Thanks Ed.
SCHULTZ: I appreciate your time tonight. Thank you so much. Still ahead,
save our steel. Now, is the time to invest at the backbone of American
manufacturing. Rally in Virginia, Minnesota today, I was there. Plus
George Will will not back down on his column on campus rate. Zerlina
Maxwell joined us to discuss the growing fire storm. But next, I`m taking
your questions Ask Ed Live, just ahead on the Ed Show at MSNBC, we`re right
SCHULTZ: Welcome back to the Ed Show. Appreciate all the questions, love
hearing from our viewers tonight in our Ask Ed Live segment. Our first
question is from Rachel (ph).
Do you think Scott Walker will ever be indicted after his problems with the
county and now as governor?
You know, I do think he`s going to get indicted. I don`t think it`s over
with. But, the loss is there right in front of him because now he`s losing
the trust of the people. One thing American people don`t like is someone
who isn`t honest and forthright, and Walker has been very deceiving
throughout all of this. That email clearly shows that there was a
connection between his organization and Karl Rove in bringing in outside
money, and that money saved him in the governor`s chair. I think there
will be a big push back coming in in November. And I do think he`s going
to get indicted. I don`t think it`s far from over.
Our next question is from Lee.
When will conservatives focus on the issues that serve the middle class?
Let me tell you something. They never talked about the middle class. They
never will. All they care about is political power. That`s it. That why
they genuflect to the corporate money, the corporate lords, and that`s what
they`re always going to do. Bottom line is Republican Party has sold out
to the special interest in the big money. The Koch Brothers are the
quarterbacks of the whole thing, and the middle class, is the furthest
thing from their minds.
Stick around, Rapid Response Panel is next.
HAMPTON PEARSON, CNBC CORRESPONDENT: I`m Hampton Pearson with your CNBC
Modest moves for stocks, the DOW falls 9. The S and P is up from fracking
(ph). The NASDAQ ends up less than a point.
Oracle is buying restaurant and hotel software-maker Micros Systems for
Meanwhile, there`s some encouraging news on the housing market. Home
resales jumped stronger than expected, 4.9 percent last month.
And gas prices are moving higher, that`s according to Lundberg. They`re up
nearly $0.2 over the last two weeks.
That`s it from CNBC, first in business worldwide.
SCHULTZ: Welcome back to the Ed Show. This is a big story that affects a
major portion of the Upper Midwest. The United States Department of
Commerce, you know, the folks that are supposed to be on our side, they`ve
got a date on the calendar that they got to pay attention to. They have
until July 10th to decide whether or not they will impose punitive tariffs
on nine countries for dumping below cost steel into our markets.
Now, several months ago, we were in Lorain, Ohio to tell the story where
the community is suffering the effects of cheap South Korean imports
flooding the market. Well today, I spent some time at the "Save our Steel
Jobs" rally in Virginia, Minnesota. It was a culmination of worker
activism that`s taking place across the country. But the United
Steelworkers and U.S. Steel, the business folks, they joined forces at the
rally in Northern Minnesota`s Iron Range.
Now, bad trade deals and a lack of enforcement have allowed a flood of
cheap steel to be dumped into the United States market, and you know what
this is doing folks, this is threatening the livelihoods of thousands upon
thousands of Americans. We`re talking jobs.
Steel imports increased 12 percent between 2011 and 2013. The United
States Steel industry had a net loss of $1.2 billion in 2013 alone. And
according to the economic policy institute, the U.S. Steel production
supported over 500,000 jobs nationwide in 2012. Steel dumping threatens
every single one of those jobs. You can`t get around it. It is a fact.
So if we keep taking this cheap steel and they keep dumping it on our
market and we don`t have any tariffs at all, this is going to be American
jobs we`re talking, we`ve already seen some shutdowns of supplants. We`ve
really seen some layoffs, and let me tell you something, there were some
real nervous hearty-working Americans that were at that rally today.
Joining me tonight in our Rapid Response Panel, Leo Gerard, President of
United Steelworkers International, and Democratic Congressman Rick Nolan of
Minnesota, great to have both of you with us tonight.
Now, I want to point out that there has been a letter sent from the United
States Senate. Fifty-seven, that`s right, bipartisan, 57 senators have
signed on to a letter that is going to the Congress department telling them
to take some action on this.
Mr. Gerard, you first. Do they have legal footing to do something to turn
this dynamic around?
LEO GERARD, UNITED STEELWORKERS INT`L: Absolutely, they do have it. And
in fact, one of our problems is that in the comparison of the products they
were comparing, they compared oil country tubular goods to what we would
consider pipe to build a skyscraper water transmission pipe that is like --
but it`s like comparing apples and oranges not the same thing. So they
have every reason to do the right comparison. We`re not asking for a
freebie here. We`re asking them to follow the law and implement the law.
Let me say about South Korea. When we filed the case and commerce said no
interim duty. Imports from South Korea went from 91,000 tons to 213,000
tons April to May. In one month, if they extrapolate that at 213,000 to
214,000 to 215,000 tons per month, at the end of the year, that`s the
complete hundred percent of the American market they will have crushed.
And oil country tubular goods are the most sophisticated product that`s
made in the steel industry and we could make steel at less than one man-
hour per ton. No other place on earth can matches when it comes to quality
and it comes to productivity.
SCHULTZ: We have the best quality workers. We have the best quality iron
ore and steel that we`re making, and for some reason --
GERARD: Ed, if I could --
SCHULTZ: -- we just don`t. Yeah, go ahead.
GERARD: If I can make one more point before the Congressman. The South
Korea`s don`t have iron ore. They don`t have coal. They don`t have
limestone. Their workers are paid about 95 percent of what we`re paid in
America. They have to import that from Brazil and from Australia and from
other places. We have iron ore as you saw just up the road in Minnesota.
We have coal not too far --
GERARD: -- from our plants. We have the most sophisticated operation in
the world. Why is it that South Korea can penetrate our market below the
cost of production? Because they cheat. And we`re tired of fighting the
cheaters. It`s time our government stood up. Cheating is cheating and
it`s going along with China, it`s going out with South Korea, it`s going
out to all kinds of countries, and why the hell should the union have to be
the one that initiates the case? Our government should be doing it.
SCHULTZ: I`ll let Rick Nolan, congressman from Minnesota answer that. Mr.
Nolan, your response to that.
REP. RICK NOLAN, (D) MINNESOTA: Well, Leo Gerard has said that -- and he
said it well. You know, unfortunately, there have been some Democratic and
Republican presidents who have supported the so called free trade. And as
Leo pointed out, it`s unfair trade. We build a great nation in this
country with social security, and Medicare, and EPA regulations, and
unemployment benefits, and wages, and healthcare, and pensions, and then we
said to all of our companies and our workers now go compete with the rest
of the world? Well, they don`t have to do any of that.
That Ed, that is just fundamentally unfair and the steel imports are
depressing our prices. They have taken jobs away from the American people,
they are stealing our economy, and it`s high time we do something about it.
It`s high time the President, the Department of Commerce step up and impose
the duties to impose the fines to put an end to this cheap steel that`s
flooding our markets --
NOLAN: -- and destroying our economy.
GERARD: Ed --
SCHULTZ: Well, I`m going to have more on this story later this week. A
157 house members have signed on to a letter to the Commerce Department.
But Congressman Nolan, if this is not imposed by July 11th, we are talking
about thousands upon thousands of workers in your state that will be out of
work. And the ripple effect on the main street in the small towns is going
to be devastating. Is President Obama asleep at the switch on this or
NOLAN: Well Ed, to your point, at this rate, they estimate that some 12
steel nails and the country oil go out a business. Some 50,000
steelworkers and iron ore workers and taconite workers will lose their
jobs. And the fact is, we`re not going to get this economy moving again.
We`re not going to rebuilt America with cheap steel. And I hope you`ll do
so more in this program because Ed --
GERARD: And Ed --
NOLAN: -- we`ve got some goodbye American steel legislation here on the
House of Representatives --
SCHULTZ: Yeah, OK.
NOLAN: But we`ve got to get after this trade agreements Ed. That`s what
the heart of this problem --
GERARD: Ed, let me --
NOLAN: This trade lets allow this unfair trade.
GERARD: Ed, let me make a point quick Ed --
SCHULTZ: All right, Mr. Gerard.
GERARD: -- if I can make a point quickly. The United States consumes a
little over a hundred million tons of steel per year. The United States is
capable of producing about of 100 million tons of steel per year. There`s
500 million tons of excess steel capacity in the world, the overwhelming
majority from China. China produces almost a billion tons of steel. It
produces under the cost of -- it trades it under the cost of production.
It`s depressing markets. It`s eliminating margins. It`s putting people
out of work. And we don`t have any filing of trade cases unless they`re
filed by the employer and the union. The trading system --
GERARD: -- in America is broken. In order to win a case at the
International Trade Commission, we`ve got to prove that we`ve lost jobs,
that our companies have lost margins, that we`ve closed plants.
GERARD: Why the hell should we act to destroy our economy --
NOLAN: That`s bad.
GERARD: -- to prove that these guys are cheating.
NOLAN: Well, and Ed this story --
SCHULTZ: That`s behind (inaudible).
NOLAN: -- is in the heart of our -- this goes to the heart of our trade
agreements. There`s a small group of us here --
NOLAN: -- meeting every week to try to stop this fast track. This whole
thing started with this --
NOLAN: -- North American free trade agreement. It sent 50,000
manufacturers in America overseas and destroyed 8 million good paying jobs
with wages --
NOLAN: -- and healthcare and benefits and --
SCHULTZ: We will --
NOLAN: -- we got to stop this fast track fair trade agreement that --
our free trade agreement that`s being pursued by the administration.
SCHULTZ: Gentlemen, we`ll have to leave it there.
GERARD: Agreed. Thanks Ed.
SCHULTZ: We`ll have to leave it there. We will come back and do more on
that this week.
Leo Gerard and Congressman Rick Nolan of Minnesota, good to have you with
us tonight, thanks so much. We`ll have more on my visit to Virginia,
Minnesota later on this week in our series "Fighting Chance: American
Coming up, pizza man Herman Cain on stupid people ruining America,
Pretenders is next. We are right back on the Ed show.
SCHULTZ: And in Pretenders tonight, failed presidential candidate Herman
Cain. The pizza man is out dishing out his take on the right to vote. He
rallied the crowd at the Faith and Freedom summit saying "President Obama
is in office because voters are ignorant".
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HERMAN CAIN, (R) FMR. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I have even heard people
say, "Well, I don`t vote because I don`t know what`s going on" and I say
"Good". Stupid people are ruining America and I`m glad some of them stay
home. The solution is real simple folks. Those of us that are informed
have got to out-vote the stupid people. And you have got to become
ambassadors of intelligence, ambassadors of informations. So, the number
one is stay informed.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: He has one really good point there. It is important to stay
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So you agreed with President Obama on Libya or not?
CAIN: OK, Libya. President Obama supported the uprising, correct?
President Obama called for the removal of Gadhafi. Just want to make sure
we`re talking about the same thing before I say "Yes, I agreed" or "No, I
didn`t agree." I do not agree with the way he handled it for the following
reason. No, that`s a different one. I`ve got to go back and see. Got all
this stuff twirling around in my head
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: Like Herman Cain said, we should all become ambassadors of
intelligence and follow what`s going on. But if Herman Cain thinks stupid
voters are to blame for his party losing the 2012 election, he can keep on
SCHULTZ: Welcome back to The Ed Show.
The firestorm surrounding George Will, it is growing. One paper is taking
action against the writer. There`s been outrage over his June 6 column
which detailed the quote "Coveted status of sexual assault victims on
college campuses". Now, the St. Louis Post dispatch op-ed editor says "The
paper is dropping George Will".
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TONY MESSENGER, ST. LOUIS POST-DISPATCH OP-ED EDITOR: That`s why within
our rights on an editorial page is to decide what sort of debate, what
level of civility, what level of treatment of women who are sexual assault
victims we`re going to allow on our page. A lot of the responses that were
negative to our decision accused us of doing so for political correctness.
That`s not the case. We believe that column trivialize the sexual assault
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: You know, if you`re looking for retraction or apology from George
Will, you`re going to be disappointed. In an interview with C-SPAN, George
Will made it clear, he`s not backing down.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE WILL, COLUMNIST: I think there`s a danger now of defining sexual
assault so broadly, so capaciously. That it begins to trivialize the
seriousness of it. That you -- when you gave a -- remarks become sexual
assault, improper touching, bad shouldn`t be done, but it`s not sexual
assault. I mean, we being to blur distinctions that are important to
preserve. If you believe, as the senators purport to believe, that this is
a serious matter.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: The Ed Show has invited George Will to appear on this program so
I can ask him a few questions; of course he has declined.
Joining me tonight, Zerlina Maxwell of thegrio.com. Zerlina, great to have
you on with us. Now, he says there is actually a danger here that the
definition of -- in the interpretation of sexual assault would become too
broad. I would like your response to that.
ZERLINA MAXWELL, THEGRIO.COM: Well I think, what he`s trying to get at is,
he thinks that there is an epidemic of false rape allegations. And so, by
broadening the definition of sexual assault to include unwanted touching
which is, when you touch someone without their consent, which by definition
is assault under the law, he is saying that women are making things up and
that all these men, these innocent men are going to be accused of sexual
assaults when they didn`t actually do anything wrong and that women are
just overly sensitive.
And so to that I say, men are more likely to be sexually assault themselves
than to be falsely accused of sexual assault. And I think that we need to
be taking this issue way more seriously in how it actually occurs, right?
And so, I think most of the time, the majority of women that are assaulted
are -- assaulted by someone that they know. And so, that dynamic is very
specific one. It is not the evil man jumping out of the bushes and that`s
what makes these issues so complex and difficult to really talk about with
people who have attitudes like George Will.
SCHULTZ: Well, it is an attitude. He is obviously a conservative and has
been for years. And it certainly put them in a very bad light because he
won`t back down.
SCHULTZ: He doesn`t see any mistake whatsoever here. Should more
publications be following the Saint Louis Dispatch Post lead here?
MAXWELL: Absolutely. I think that this incident is -- it wasn`t good.
But I think that what it did was it allowed everyone to see how wrong this
-- and willfully ignorant, I`ll use upon play on words there. Willfully
ignorant this argument isn`t how damaging it can be to survivors. And the
reason why I think it`s important that this happen is because hopefully in
the future, papers just won`t run this kind of thing, right?
Mr. (inaudible) turned down his op-ed and didn`t run at all because they
said it was offensive. And I think that the more that we can talk about
this issue because, you know, what allows it to perpetuate in this victim-
blaming machine in culture is when we silence victims and we shame and
blame them for what`s happened to them and then we don`t actually have the
conversation that we need to have in order to prevent violence from
happening at all.
SCHULTZ: Well, he is concerned about a broader definition.
SCHULTZ: And how would be encompassing other behavior. But the fact is,
he is in denial of the number of assaults that take place on college
campuses, is he not?
MAXWELL: He`s absolutely in denial and I think that, you know, that is
something that we all struggle with. I think that, you know, when I talk
about rape culture, part of that is women and men both internalize these
wrong messages. And that makes us feel better because if 20 -- if it was
true that 25 percent of women and one in six men were being sexually
assaulted by our friends and husbands and uncles, and you know, our buddies
up the block, you know, if we actually had to face that truth --
MAXWELL: -- it would be really ugly. And so, I think that --
MAXWELL: -- we need to talk about it more.
SCHULTZ: Zerlina Maxwell, thegrio.com. Good to have you with us tonight.
Thanks so much.
That`s The Ed Show. I`m Ed Schultz. Politics Nation with Reverend Al
Sharpton starts right now. Good evening Rev.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY
<Copy: Content and programming copyright 2014 MSNBC. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.
Copyright 2014 Roll Call, Inc. All materials herein are protected by
United States copyright law and may not be reproduced, distributed,
transmitted, displayed, published or broadcast without the prior written
permission of Roll Call. You may not alter or remove any trademark,
copyright or other notice from copies of the content.>