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The Ed Show for Monday, September 15th, 2014

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September 15, 2014

Guest: Kimberly Williams, Aeneas Williams, Lawrence Wilkerson, Katrina
Vanden Heuvel, Bernie Sanders

ED SCHULTZ, MSNBC HOST: Good evening Americans and welcome to the Ed Show
live from Detroit Lakes, Minnesota. Let`s get to work.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Goodell visibly absent during game day Sunday.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Facing more calls to resign.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Planes with the banners reading, "Goodell must go"
flying over several stadiums.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ray Rice will appeal his indefinite suspension today.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Allegedly beating his pregnant fiancee, McDonald has
not been formally charged.

CARTER: We don`t respect no women.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The Carolina Panthers deactivated the defensive end
Greg Hardy.

CARTER: We don`t respect no kids.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: NFL MVP Adrian Peterson was deactivated by the team on

CARTER: Take them off the field because they respect that.


SCHULTZ: Good to have you with us tonight folks. Thanks for watching.

Well, this has been a week where the highlight tape really doesn`t mean
that much. So we start tonight with major news out of the NFL. There are
new developments.

Minnesota Vikings are reversing course and they will play star running back
Adrian Peterson this Sunday against the Saints. Peterson was benched this
past week in a 30 to seven loss against the New England Patriots.

Now, as we reported on Friday from Dallas, Peterson was indicted by a grand
jury in Texas on a felony charge of injury to a child. The six-time pro
baller allegedly hit his four-year-old son with a thin tree branch he calls
a switch. The alleged beating resulted in numerous injuries to the child
that were found and reported by the child`s doctor.

Minnesota Vikings held a press conference earlier today and addressed their
reasoning to play Peterson this week.


do the right thing. This is a difficult path to navigate regarding the
judgment of how a parent disciplines his child.

Based on the extensive information that we have right now and what we know
about Adrian, not only as a person, but what he has also done for this
community, we believe he deserves to play while the legal process plays
out. At the same time, we must refer to the legal system to determine
whether he went too far but we cannot make that judgment.


SCHULTZ: Adrian Peterson released a statement later this afternoon. It
read in part, "I`m not a perfect son. I`m not a perfect husband. I`m not
a perfect parent but I am, without a doubt, not a child abuser. I am
someone that disciplined his child and did not intend to cause him any

Peterson wasn`t the only player sitting out this week. Carolina Panthers
Head Coach Ron Rivera chose to sit defensive end Greg Hardy on the sideline
on Sunday. Hardy was convicted in July of domestic violence but is
appealing the ruling. He was allowed to play in week one.

Ray Rice`s indefinite suspension continues and he is not expected to play
the rest of the season although NBC News reports that Ray Rice will appeal
his suspension today. Rice is expected to contempt that he told the
league, the team, the truth about what happened in the elevator.

Meanwhile, the San Francisco 49ers are not caving to public pressure. The
49ers played defensive tackle Ray McDonald against the Chicago Bears last
night and lost. McDonald was arrested on August 31st on suspicion of
domestic violence and it`s important to point out that he has not been
formally charged. The decision to play McDonald has California Lieutenant
Governor Gavin Newsom outraged. He released a statement today saying, "The
49ers continued insistence on playing Ray McDonald during his ongoing
criminal investigation is painful -- is a painful affront to every victim
of domestic violence and sends a troubling message to our community."

Now when you look at these, these are four different players on four
different teams. Every team is handling it differently, although there are
similarities. With the exception of Ray Rice, the teams are allowing due
process to unfold before any severe penalties are initiated. This has
sparked a heated debate among fans and football players.

On Sunday, Vikings Hall of Fame Wide Receiver Cris Carter made a heated
case against child abuse. He said, "Benching players is the only


CARTER: My mom was wrong. She did the best she could but she was wrong
about some of that stuff that she taught me. And I promised my kids I
won`t teach that mess to them. You can`t beat a kid to make them do what
they want.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s correct. Thank you.

CARTER: Thousands of things we have learned since then. And now we`re to
the point -- The only thing I`m proud about is the team that I played for,
they did the right thing.


CARTER: Take them off the field. I don`t care what -- We`re in a climate
right now, I don`t care what it is. Take them off the dang-on field,
because you know what? As a man, that`s the only thing we really respect.


SCHULTZ: Well, the Vikings have reversed that position as of late.

On the flip side, some people are coming to Adrian Peterson`s defense.


CHARLES BARKLEY, RET. NBA PLAYER: I`m from the South. Whipping is -- we
do that all the time. Every black parent in South is going to be in jail
under all those circumstances. I think we have to be careful letting
people how we -- they dictate, how they`d, you know, treat their kids...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Such as, no matter where you`re from. Right is right
and wrong is wrong.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No. Well, I don`t believe that because, listen, we
spank kids in the South. I think the question about that Adrian Peterson
go overboard. But listen, Jim, we all grow up in different environments.
Listen, every black parent in my neighborhood in the South would be in
trouble or in jail under those circumstances.


SCHULTZ: Public scrutiny of the NFL has never been higher. Incident after
incident is keeping bad headlines, front and center for the league. This
time, it`s child abuse.

Throughout all of this, I`ve wondered, "Does the NFL have a company
manual?" Many corporations in this company, many in this country -- Many
companies in this country have got an employee manual. These are the dos
and the don`ts. You do this, you get fired. You do this, this is the

I find it hard to believe that the National Football League, which is such
a part of our culture and so important has not formulated a standard and
practices manual and a discipline guideline for their players about what
the league will accept and not accept as behavior on or off the field. Get
a manual. Get an employee`s manual. That`s the least thing Roger Goodell
could do and it should be about this thick and I don`t care how much money
these players make, I don`t care how famous they are, they have to abide by
it or they wouldn`t be in the league.

Right now, the league is developing a serious credibility problem and there
are some fans out there across America, no matter what happens, they`re
going to say, "Hey, I love my team, I love my player. I`m going to be
behind them no matter what. It`s my entertainment. This is the way it is
and oh, by the way, they`ll take care of it." It`s much deeper than that.

And what is really paramount here is that the National Football League is
such a part of our culture in this country and is developed to be such a
part of our culture. They are uniquely positioned to do something and to
do it right and to get it right if it takes you all season long to get it
right. Come up with the standards and practice manual that your players
must follow or they can`t be in the league. Or is winning just too

Get your cellphones out. I want to know what you think. Tonight`s
question, "Are the Vikings doing the wrong thing by letting Adrian Peterson
play?" Text A for yes, text B for no to 67622. You can always go to our
blog at We`ll bring you the results later on in the show.

For more, let me bring in pediatric psychologist and neuropsychologist
Doctor Kimberly Williams. She joins us here on the Ed Show tonight.

Doctor, I appreciate your time. There are so many facets to this story but
I want to focus in on the child if I can.

Allegedly hitting his son repeatedly with a thin tree branch. Are you
familiar with this type of punishment and what it does to the kid? I mean,
a four-year-old child, not many people can remember what it was like to be
four years old and the experiences they had in life. What about all that,

DR. KIMBERLY WILLIAMS: So, definitely as you said, there`s been a lot of
talk about the historically and culturally spanking children and whether
it`s the African-American community but culturally, all diverse groups have
been known to spank their children. In fact, about 90 percent of Americans
admit to spanking their children. However, you have to draw a line. You
cannot cross the line of excessive physical abuse and excessive physical

I`ve read the indictment paperwork and it does seem to indicate that this
was excessive. There were multiple wounds on this child.

SCHULTZ: Well, Doctor, Adrian Peterson, is it possible that he doesn`t
know the difference between discipline and abuse because of the way he was
brought up?

WILLIAMS: That`s absolutely possible and, you know, based on his statement
he was absolutely following a generational pattern. I think it`s very
challenging sometimes for a parent to know what is excessive force, what
makes the most sense to get a child to follow the behaviors and the rules
that you have set forth for them.

SCHULTZ: How damaging would this be to a child? How much of a mental scar
could this be an emotional scar on this child or any child?

WILLIAMS: Well, it`s well known that spankings and excessive force
especially particularly in four-year-old preschool age children often lead
to more aggressive patterns in the classroom. You know, hitting and rough
and difficult behaviors in the classroom with their peers and with their

Children model exactly what they see and learn from their parents. So if
you are using excessive force in beating a child every time you want to get
them to do something that you want them to do, this is what the child is
going to learn and it`s going to show in the classroom, in the playground
all the time.

SCHULTZ: Peterson wrote in a statement today. He said, "I have to live
with the fact that when I discipline my son the way I was disciplined as a
child I caused an injury that I never intended or thought would happen."
He says, "He also understands that after the meeting with the psychologist
that there are other alternative ways of disciplining a child that maybe
more appropriate." What do you make of that statement?

WILLIAMS: That`s absolutely true. One thing you have to recognize is that
unless your child is in imminent -- immediate danger there`s no need to put
your hands on your child to discipline them. You can be proactive. You
can provide structure and rules and children that are four years old, that
preschool age, time out strategies are very effective when you learn how to
do them appropriately. Removing privileges from a child are also very

You know, I wasn`t there. I don`t know what the environment was like, what
the situation was like, what the supervision was like, but I do, you know,
certainly recognize that, you know, there are children who don`t respond to
immediate directions but -- and you need to use different levels of
strategies and disciplines for children but it doesn`t have to -- it does
not have to include excessive physical force.

SCHULTZ: From what you saw, was this child abuse?

WILLIAMS: This was excessive force based on what I was reading.

SCHULTZ: Dr. Kimberly Williams, I appreciate your time tonight. Thanks so
much for joining us.

WILLIAMS: Thank you, Ed, for having me.

SCHULTZ: You bet.

Let me bring in NFL Hall of Fame Defensive Back, Aeneas Williams. He is
founder and pastor of the Spirit Church in Ferguson, Missouri.

Pastor, good to have you on with us tonight. You spend a lot of years on
the National Football League, a prolific player. Your overall reaction to
the way the league has been handling these instances so far?

you for having me on. My overall reaction is to make sure that many know
as many I could tell that this is not the majority of the league as it
relates to players and former players.

I have a wife, three daughters and there are many things that we learned
through this league and I don`t like the way it`s been handled. It`s a
work in progress and I know the league is going to go forward and get it
right. They`re going to get the proper professionals, the proper people to
get together, get committees together and find a way to properly address
this issue in the National Football League.

SCHULTZ: Well, Pastor Williams, I made reference and a short commentary a
moment ago. Why doesn`t the league have a player`s manual, the dos and
don`ts? What`s tolerated and what isn`t? Now, you were in the league,
does the league not have a standards and practices manual for players?

WILLIAMS: There is a standards and practice manual, however these issues
in particularly be coming to the forefront and what I would say about the
National Football League, Ed, it`s a double-edged sword and what I mean by
that, when you`re the number one league and you`re the most popular league,
you get all the kudos but also you get the greatest critique.

What I would like to say, well, I know -- I believe the NFL will do, what
Commissioner Goodell will do and that`s to reshape the iron while it`s hot.
And what I mean leverage is influence to come out with best practices, come
out with punitive things that would also coincide with the player`s
association are able to also communicate about so you can come out with not
just knee-jerk reaction but concrete things that you have now, a consistent
way of handling these issues whether it`s domestic violence or it`s child

SCHULTZ: Well, it`s the statistic show that this is one of the major
problems that the league has. Domestic violence. And do you think that
these players should be suspended before the legal process plays out or do
they have a standard to live up to as a player?

WILLIAMS: There is a standard to live up as a player. I`ve been thinking
about this. Domestic violence, even in our culture, with the laws and guys
not getting anytime in jail as a result of some of these issues but I
wanted to say, let`s also start at the universities. Many of these players
come out the school and I think the key is education.

Even as a parent, I grew up -- my parents did an excellent job. We got
discipline. Many times if we got the spankings, it was on out dairy air.
But now, going forward, we`re in a different time, we`re in a different
culture where people are being held accountable for things that are out of
order. But even as a parent, I become better educated, I`ve got better
information and it`s even made me a better parent.

I think starting at the collegiate level and also through different
training at the league level, get players education, give them better
understanding on conflict resolution, better understanding of the different
methods, just as Dr. Williams mentioned, what are some of those different
tools as it relates to disciplinary actions with the child.


WILLIAMS: Those are things that I want to see now going forward.

SCHULTZ: Do you think the league did -- the Vikings are doing the right
thing by playing Adrian Peterson after sitting him out last week? I mean
it`s very -- he`s been arrested, he`s been indicted and been indicted and
arrested, he`s facing some legal trouble. No question about it.
Professionals are saying that it was abusive, yet he plays in the NFL.
There`s going to be a lot of people to say there`s something wrong with
this picture. Are the Vikings is doing the right thing?

WILLIAMS: There are may be many people that make the statement. I would
have to think with the amount of scrutiny that`s only legal right now
between the Minnesota Vikings and at the league level, there`s been
communication with professionals as well as attorneys as well as the
player`s association to find out in this case, what is the appropriate
action to take right now not withstanding what will come later on in terms
of policies and the consistent due process that happens within the National
Football League.

SCHULTZ: All right, Pastor Aeneas Williams, it`s good to have you with us
tonight. I appreciate your time. Thank you so much.

Remember to answer tonight`s question there at the bottom of the screen and
share your thoughts with us on twitter@edshow and at wegoted and on
Facebook. We appreciate the like. We always want to know what you think
and we read your comments. Thank you so much.

Coming up, my interview with the guest of honor at the Harkin State Fry in
Indianola, Iowa, the Clintons.

But first, Lindsey Graham says we need boots on the ground to stop out
ISIS. Stay with us. We`ll be right back on the Ed Show.


SCHULTZ: Time now for Trenders. What`s hot and what`s not? You can keep
in touch with us on Twitter at Ed Show and on Facebook. Like us there. We
appreciate it. You can get my podcast at,, and on iTunes. It`s free 24/7 right there for you.

The Ed Show Social Media Nation has decided and we`re reporting. Here are
today`s top trenders voted on by you.


SCHULTZ: The number three trender, striking a deal.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The U.S. has launched about 160 airstrikes against
ISIS targets in Iraq and it`s expected Syria will be next.

SCHULTZ: ISIS and Syrian moderates make a non aggression pack.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ISIS is just one of the players of that messy and
dangerous landscape.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Free Syrian Army has been fighting for territory
and gains against the betrayal of Al-Assad and against some of the rival
groups through sometime.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There also have been free Syrian rebel group saying
lately, if you give us weapons we`re going to use them against Al-Assad,
we`re not going to fight against ISIS.

SCHULTZ: The number two trender, Coalition building.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The global effort to stop ISIS militants in their

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Secretary Kerry crisscrossing in the Middle East to
get Arab allies on board.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Getting the coalition of Arab countries is very

SCHULTZ: Several Arab nations say they`ll join in on airstrikes against

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Senior administration official said today, several
Arab countries have also pledged to participate in an air campaign.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Likely candidates that would include Saudi Arabia,
Qatar, the United Arab Emirates.

JOHN KERRY, SECRETARY OF STATE: This is a strategy coming together as the
coalition comes together.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There`s got to be a team effort.

SCHULTZ: And today`s top trender, ground gain.

LINDSEY GRAHAM, CALIFORNIA SENATOR: We`re fighting a terrorist army. So
it`s going to take an army to beat an army.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: President Obama continues to insist no U.S. boots on
the ground.

GRAHAM: This president needs to rise to the occasion before we all get
killed back here at home.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Lindsey Graham says we need boots on the ground to stop
out ISIS.

GRAHAM: This idea, we`ll never have any boots on the ground to defeat
Syria is fantasy.

KERRY: There are troops on the ground. They`re called Syrian.

GRAHAM: I will not let this president suggest to the American people. We
can outsource our security.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have to mobilize the local forces on the ground.

GRAHAM: If they survive our best shot then they will open the gates to
hell to spill out on the world.


SCHULTZ: Joining me now is Colonel Lawrence Wilkerson, Former Chief of
Staff and Secretary of State Colin Powell, an adjunct professor at the
College of William and Mary.

Colonel, good to have you with us again tonight. There`s a lot shaking in
the Middle East. No doubt and this comes as a great surprise that there
are deals being made that I don`t think America really counted on. But
first of all, colonel, what is your reaction to Lindsey Graham`s comments?

believe my political party anymore but particularly the two leading war
mongers, Senators John McCain and Lindsey Graham. Lindsey of course being
from my home state of South Carolina, Houston home not too far from my

I don`t know whether this is political opportunism, exploiting the politics
of fear much the way Joe McCarthy did as you recall during the Cold War and
the communist red scare or whether it`s all felt. In that case, Lindsey
and John need to check into a hospital and get on some meds. Or whether
it`s a combination of the two and perhaps, add a little spice of political
opportunism in the sense of anything that President Obama wants to do
they`re oppose to it but it is insanity writ large.

SCHULTZ: Colonel, you and I have talked about loyalties in the Middle
East, the Syrian moderates. I asked you, not long ago and other folks on
this program, who are the Syrian moderates?

WILKERSON: Ed, if you can find me a moderate in that regime, I`d love to
see him and put him in a test tube and study him. I just don`t think there
are any. I understand today from a friend in the intelligence community
that the forces in Syria opposed to Assad whether they`d be the Syrian free
army or whatever have signed a nonaggression pact as it were with the
Islamic state forces.

So and that tells me there`s a lot of sympathy and empathy between those
two different groups and forces. And we`re talking about arming and
bombing and so forth in Syria. This makes no sense to me.

SCHULTZ: So what does this deal mean for the United States and the
strategy that president has put forth with Syria that we were going to arm
these Syrian moderates and now they go cut a deal with ISIS?

WILKERSON: I think it means that this is a wrong tactic and I`d back up
and say, I don`t think he expressed anything strategic, he expressed some
tactical moves. I hope beneath that, in secret, there is some sort of
strategy including talking with Iran, the most stable state in South West
Asia and a state whose interest in this regard aligned perfectly with our
own. So I hope there is a strategy there somewhere.

These tactics, bombing to help the Peshmerga and to help the Iraqi forces,
the national forces in Iraq makes some sense in a tactical point of view.
But it makes no sense to bomb in Syria when you can`t sort out the people
you`re bombing. It also makes no sense to arm them when you can`t sort
them out because what you`re going to have of course is like the Mujahideen
in Afghanistan earlier, they`re going to be turning their weapons at some
point against us.

SCHULTZ: So this creates actually, possibly a bigger problem for Assad?
And now, you`ve got several Arab nations have said that they will join the
United States in airstrikes against ISIS. How hopeful would that happening
in a good conclusion?

WILKERSON: I think we`re looking at the possibility of two really
dangerous developments. One is that we follow the insane advice of people
like McCain and Graham and other neoconservatives and we put ground forces
in there ultimately. And what we will do then is we`ll fuse all these
disparate Jihadist elements and perhaps lots of Arabs and Persians in the
process into killing the United States marines and soldiers in their
presence. In other words, we`ll do something they can`t do. We`ll unify

The other extremely possible dangerous development is we start a real
sectarian conflict which is what the Southeast and others funding the
Islamic state want. That is to say, Shia is on one said, Sunni is on the
other and the last man left standing is the winner and the United States is
in there somewhere losing its power on the peripheries of its same power.

SCHULTZ: No good solutions early on here. There`s no doubt about that.
Colonel Lawrence Wilkerson, great to have you with us tonight. I
appreciate your time. Thanks so much.

Up next, my weekend with some old friends.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You say hi to my old buddy, Ed Schultz.

come here.

SCHULTZ: Absolutely.

CLINTON: How are you?


SCHULTZ: And my favorite senator hit the Hawkeyes state as well. Bernie
Sanders is here tonight.

But next, I`m taking your questions, Ask Ed Live just ahead here on the Ed
Show on MSNBC. We are right back.


SCHULTZ: Welcome back to the Ed Show. We love hearing from our viewers.
I appreciate the questions.

In our Ask Ed Live segment tonight, our first question is from Jane. She
wants to know, I saw you interview Former President Bill Clinton at Senator
Harkin`s final steak fry, is this the first time you`ve ever interviewed

Meaning the president? Former president? No. I`ve had him on the radio
several times in past years. He loves to talk politics.

Our next question is from Debbie. She wants to know, what did you like
most about your visit to Iowa?

Seeing Tom Harkin, seeing Tom as he was great -- to see Tom, I haven`t seen
him for a while. He`s a great friend. He did a lot for liberal talk radio
and I appreciate it. He`s been a real fighter for workers his entire
career and we wouldn`t have ObamaCare if we hadn`t had him on the committee
to push that thing through. He`s done a lot of good things for people and
so I was excited to go there to his final steak fry and see Tom Harkin.
It`s the best part of being there. And seeing the Clintons was pretty
cool, too.

Stick around, Rapid Response panel is next.

EAMON JAVERS, CNBC MARKET WRAP: I`m Eamon Javers with your CNBC Market

Stocks end mixed ahead of a two-day fed meeting later in the week. The Dow
adds 43, the S&P falls 1 and the NASDAQ sheds 48 points.

Microsoft is buying the company behind the wildly popular video game
Minecraft for $2.5 billion. The company`s founder say, they`re leaving the
work on other projects.

Meanwhile, Apple shares ended flat despite the company announcing it
received a record 4 million preorders for its new iPhones in just the first
24 hours.

That`s it from CNBC, first in business worldwide.


SCHULTZ: Welcome back to the Ed Show. Thanks for watching tonight.

Our team headed to Indianola, Iowa this weekend to attend Tom Harkin`s 37th
and final steak fry. The senator is a great. I was honored to be there.
We talked to Iowa voters reflected on Harkin`s 40-year career and ran into
some old friends.


SCHULTZ: The 37th annual Harkin`s Steak Fry, it`s the biggest ever. Now
in the steak, it is Tom Harkin and a great salute to him from the folks
here on Iowa.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Iowa Senator Tom Harkin has spent the last 40 years on
the frontlines of so many progressive issues and they progress.

On Sunday, Iowa Democrats celebrated his career at Harkin`s 37th and final
steak fry.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is my first time here and I`ve never lived in
Iowa before so being able to come here for the first time especially at
Harkin`s retirement, there are no words.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Iowa definitely is very thankful for everything that
Tom`s given and definitely he was a great senator.

SCHULTZ: It`s good to see you.

SEN. TOM HARKIN, (D) IOWA: God, it`s good to see you.

Well, look, I`m going to miss -- of course, I`m going to miss it but 40
years is long enough for anybody.


HARKIN: Time to move aside gracefully and let somebody else come in.

SCHULTZ: The guest of honor? Bill and Hillary Clinton. It was Hillary`s
first visit to Iowa in six years. And it was obvious, she came to the
state holding the first presidential caucuses, looking to rekindle some old

HARKIN: Say hi to my old buddy, Ed Schultz.

H. CLINTON: You just let anybody come here.

SCHULTZ: Absoluely.

H. CLINTON: How are you?

SCHULTZ: It`s great to see you.

H. CLINTON: Good to see you, my goodness

HARKIN: I saw him and no -- again, what were you saying?

SCHULTZ: Look, I heard there was steak here. I wouldn`t go pass that up.

H. CLINTON: There is. There`s a lot of it. Yeah.

SCHULTZ: I had a chance visit and speak with her husband Former President
Bill Clinton who paid tribute to Harkin`s career and successes.

BILL CLINTON, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: He`s been a big leader not just in
things that directly relate to Iowa like the culture and development and
health care but on these big issues, America should be proud that he solved
them in...

SCHULTZ: He really cared about people.

B. CLINTON: ... Yeah. And he cared about people and he figured out what
he could do to empower them to make more than their own lives and to
protect them from being (inaudible). I think it`s, you know, it`s not a
rocket science.

SCHULTZ: Mr. President, this guy was.

HARKIN: Thank you. That`s kind of over the top.

SCHULTZ: This gentleman was a deal maker. I mean he, you know.

HARKIN: In politics, the way it is in Washington now, is the art of a deal

B. CLINTON: I hope not. Tom Harkin got more done.

HARKIN: Enough of that.

B. CLINTON: . for over 40 years. I`m just telling you.

HARKIN: Enough for that. No.

B. CLINTON: When you look at this record.

HARKIN: It`s all right. I`m not.

B. CLINTON: . he is like very consequential figure to administer in the

SCHULTZ: In the face of unprecedented partisanship in Washington, the man
from hope still believes in compromise.

B. CLINTON: Nobody here has to give up what they believe in but the
constitution should be subtitled. I`ll say this on (inaudible). Let`s
make a deal. The primaries of the constitution said.

HARKIN: Exactly right.

B. CLINTON: . there`s no inclusion. And everywhere in the world you`ll
see this. What`s the big key to whether Iraq makes it, whether the Shia,
the largest group, take the Sunni tribal groups into an inclusive
government that makes them want to put their life on the line and them want
to fight them to their death, putting things together. Wherever that`s
happening, good things are happening. Whether people fight all the time,
the things do not have to be -- not rocket science.

SCHULTZ: Well, it`s clear. Hillary Clinton is the early front runner, she
wasn`t the only one on the mind of Iowa Democrats. These folks are looking
for some competition.

SCHULTZ: Is it going to be Hillary?


SCHULTZ: For sure?


SCHULTZ: Are you sure about that? What about Bernie? What about Joe?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Bernie, I love and Joe, I love but.


SCHULTZ: Is it all about Hillary?

SCHULTZ: No. No. No. Not at all. I`m not ready to say I`m ready for
Hillary yet but I hope nobody hear me say that.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I love Bernie and Joe but -- and the party does need
them to move Hillary a little more to the left.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m not offended by Hillary.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But I`m not totally set that she`s the only answer

SCHULTZ: OK. So who? There`s Bernie Sanders, there`s Joe Biden.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Absolutely. I wish we had more talk from Bernie. I
wish he get along more by it.

SCHULTZ: You want competition?



SCHULTZ: Joining me now on our Rapid Response Panel, E.J. Dionne,
Columnist for the Washington Post and an MSNBC contributor, and Katrina
Vanden Heuvel back with us here from The Nation magazine. Great to have
both of you with us.



SCHULTZ: Katrina, you first -- you bet.

I have to say that the Clintons are very at ease. They`re very comfortable
with who they are, the way life is, confidence pores off them. In fact,
Hillary looks like she doesn`t have a worry in the world. But I heard
through the crowd numerous times yesterday that, you know, they want


SCHULTZ: They want a debate. And, Katrina, your thoughts, are liberals
ready to embrace Hillary this time around because it`s seems like there`s a
lot of people on the left that thinks she hadn`t go in far enough. Your

VANDEN HEUVEL: It was really interesting to hear your interviews, Ed,
because I don`t think it`s settled. I do think people understand that
we`re a better country and in fact her candidacy might be sharp and might
be better if there is competition. After all, primaries are about
expanding debate about bringing new ideas into the process about allowing
citizens to be participants not just spectators.

So I think there`s a hunger and I think go for it. I mean, no one should
be anti-Hillary for the sake of being anti-Hillary. There`s a hunger for a
woman president but I think you want to see others, other alternatives to a
downsized politics whether it`s Bernie Sanders who was in Iowa the same
day, Governor Martin O`Malley, of course Elizabeth Warren is out there but
there are others, Ed, and I think it`s a populace moment in this country.
Just to say for a moment, Senator Tom Harkin fighting liberal progressive
prairie school populist, he is someone who will said that the senator has
move too far to the right and he`s someone, I believe, who said the other
day, we do need to see what`s out there. This shouldn`t be settled. This
is about democracy in participation.


VANDEN HEUVEL: And that`s what I think people seek.

SCHULTZ: E.J. Dionne, Hillary said in Iowa, "I`m back" and I thought well,
if she`s back with the same campaign she had in 2008 she might run into
trouble. I mean, her campaign is going to have to get contemporary and run
it parallel to what Obama did. Is she going to be and have to be a
different type of candidate?

DIONNE: Well, I think she is. I think she became a different type of
candidate in the course of the 2008 campaign. She was a much better
candidate in the later primary. She actually ran a much more populous
campaign in the later primaries. And, you know, she actually, I think got
more votes than Obama toward the end. So I think she`s well aware that
when you come in third in the caucus you thought you`re going to win. You
need a new approach.

But on this issue of should Hillary be challenged or not? I think the
record is really mixed on whether primary challenges are good or bad for a
candidate. I think there are a couple of cases where it was clearly bad
for a candidate. Mitt Romney got pushed way off to the edges to the right
by that campaign in 2012 and obviously two incumbents, George H. W. Bush
and Jimmy Carter were hurt by primaries.

On the other hand, I think that the await primary between -- in the end,
between John Edwards who was in at the beginning but between Obama and
Hillary was actually very good for Obama.


DIONNE: And the 2000 primary Bush-McCain create a lot of interest in Bush.
So I don`t think there is a clear answer to this and I don`t even think,
honestly, there`s a clear answer to whether Hillary would become more
progressive by being challenged from her left or by getting supported by
the left. I think that`s a big debate on the left right now.

VANDEN HEUVEL: But there is a big debate.


VANDEN HEUVEL: There is a big debate out there. And with a disagreement
with my esteemed colleague, E.J. Dionne, I think it`s good for the country
to hear the full range of alternative views.

E.J., this is a moment when majorities say they`re in sync with what, you
know, called populace views, investment and infrastructure, social security
expanding and Medicare, increasing the minimum wage, tackling inequality in
ways to go beyond technology and globalization as if they`re just
autonomous weather forces which Hillary Clinton sort of alluded to the
other day.

So there`s a hunger out there and we see it in elections across these
country and cities and states. And it was interesting to me to be -- Mayor
Bill de Blasio -- New York City Mayor Bill de Blasio`s inauguration this
past-cold January. Clintons were there. And some of my colleagues said,
"Oh, this, this and that." I said,
"Listen, the Clintons know where the energy in the party is." And I think
that`s something that you see in primaries.


DIONNE: No, just -- could I say.

SCHULTZ: Well, some of that.

DIONNE: . obviously, I agree with Katrina.

SCHULTZ: Go ahead.

DIONNE: . on that set of issues very much. I think this is partly a
tactical question about what will advance a series of progressive goals and
also a practical question about whether primaries can top candidate up, air
these issues in a way that`s helpful in the long run or whether they prove
very divisive. And I just think that we should be candid about the fact
that we don`t quite know where this is going to go but I`m all for a debate
about those issues. I don`t think those are highly divisive in the
Democratic Party at the moment in fact.

SCHULTZ: Well, I have to tell both of you. It was very interesting to
watch the Clintons yesterday. They definitely know how to be nice to
people. They could give a clinic to anybody on retail politics and they
are a very consuming of what`s going on and...

DIONNE: Indeed. And Tom Harkin.

VANDEN HEUVEL: But, Ed, you know, the Washington post had a story
yesterday about Tom Harkin and it said that he was the last of a dying
breed. I take issue. We need more.


VANDEN HEUVEL: . Tom Harkins and I think they`re out there and it`s a
moment for them. Yeah.

SCHULTZ: No doubt. No question about that. We`re going to miss him.

DIONNE: I think he is much more about the future as well. I think that
the populism and to get things done he represented is not about the past.

VANDEN HEUVEL: That`s right.

SCHULTZ: E.J. Dionne, Katrina Vanden Heuvel, great to have you with us


SCHULTZ: I appreciate your time hereon the Ed Show.

DIONNE: Good to be with you.

SCHULTZ: Thank you so much.

Coming up, Hillary Clinton wasn`t the only one in Iowa this weekend. Ed
Show favorite Senator Bernie Sanders joins me next. How is his weekend?


SCHULTZ: Up next on the Ed Show, weekend with Bernie, the Vermont senator
takes one step closer to running for president.


SEN. BERNIE SANDERS, (D) VERMONT: About 22 percent of our kids are living
in poverty. And maybe some of those guys in Washington who are so worried
about family values likely concerned the 22 percent of our people.


SCHULTZ: We`re talking to Senator Bernie Sanders about his weekend in Iowa
next. Stay with us.


SCHULTZ: Welcome back to the Ed Show. Finally tonight, this is the story
for the folks who take a shower after work.

Hillary Clinton wasn`t the only person in Iowa this weekend. Senator
Bernie Sanders was also testing the waters with three town hall meetings in
a state which hold significance in the early nomination process.

On Saturday night in Dubuque, roughly 130 people showed up to see Senator
Sanders talk about evaluating the middle class, nationalizing health care
and also the fight, the influence of money and politics.


SANDERS: What you are looking at in a significant way is the movement of
this country for an oligarchy form of society which will be run by a
handful of billionaire folks (ph). We must not allow that to happen.


SCHULTZ: I got to tell you, if there`s political exhaustion across
America, it certainly didn`t show up in Iowa over the weekend. Democrats
want to see stiff competition for whoever gets the nomination.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m not offended by Hillary.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: . but not totally set that she`s the only answer

SCHULTZ: OK. So who? There`s Bernie Sanders, there`s Joe Biden.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Absolutely. I wish we had more talk from Bernie. I
wish he get a little more by it.

SCHULTZ: You want competition?



SCHULTZ: Meanwhile on Sunday, Bernie Sanders made his first appearance
with Chuck Todd on NBC`s "Meet the Press". The independent senator from
Vermont made the point that he knows what Liberals are thinking about.


SANDERS: I am thinking about running for president. The issue is not
Hillary. I`ve known Hillary Clinton for many years. I`ve a lot of respect
to Hillary Clinton. The question is at the time when so many people have
seen a decline on their standard of living, when the wealthiest people and
largest corporations are doing phenomenally well. The American people want


SCHULTZ: The question remains as whether the Liberal base will vote for
the kind of change Senator Sanders is talking about. He joins us tonight
here on the Ed Show. Senator, good to have you with us.

Three town hall meetings in Iowa over the weekend, does that make you feel
a little bit better about running for president? Where are you tonight,

SANDERS: Well, I just want to thank the people of Iowa. The turnout was
fantastic. In the morning, we couldn`t get more people in the door. We
have about 450 people coming out to the meeting and asking great questions
having a great discussion.

Look, Ed, what my perception is, in Iowa and throughout this country, is
the America people are hurting. They want a real serious discussion on the
real and serious issues facing our country which have a lot to do with why
the middle class is disappearing while we have more people living in
poverty than ever before and while at the same time, corporations are
enjoying record breaking profits and the wealthy are doing phenomenally
well. How does that happen? How do we change it? How do we make
government work for the middle class and working families not just the 1

SCHULTZ: So, what did you hear in Iowa? Are the folks in Iowa concerned
about the things you consistently talk about and do they want you to run?

SANDERS: Well, Ed, you know, we talked to about 800 people in Iowa and
that`s a state of three million people, so I can`t tell you I`ve talked to
everybody in that state. But what I did hear is a real frustration that we
don`t have leadership in this country that is standing up for people who
are working longer hours for low wages, for families that can no longer
afford to send their kids to college, no longer discussing why it is that
America is the only country, major country, on earth that doesn`t provide
health care to all of their people?

And I`ll tell you something, Ed, what got residents in every meetings that
I`ve talked about and that is this disastrous Citizens United decision that
allows the Koch brothers and other billionaires to buy elections. People
are outraged about that. And let me just say this, this is not just a
liberal or progressive issue. I think that across the board whether you`re
a conservative, whether you`re a progressive, if you`re in the middle
class, you know that there`s something wrong when since the Wall Street
crashed, 95 percent of all the (inaudible) goes to the top 1 percent.


SANDERS: People think that`s not right.

SCHULTZ: Senator, what do you say to those who say that Hillary Clinton is
unstoppable, unbeatable, too many resources, too much infrastructure and
will go right to the nomination. What`s your response to that?

SANDERS: Look, Ed, what I say is somebody who has known Hillary Clinton,
yes, I like her, I respect her. But I think, this country, Ed, every level
needs serious debate not 30-second sound bites, not negative, not negative
attack ends. Productivity has greatly expanded and yet incomes for working
families are going down, why? Our trade policies, NAFTA, CAFTA, permanent
normal trade relations in my view have been a disaster for working
families. Others may disagree. Let`s debate that issue.

How do you address the fact that we have more income and wealth inequality
that any other major country on earth? What`s the way forward? Should we
address that issue? How do we move to a national health care program
guaranteeing health care to all people? Is that a good idea? I think it
is, others may disagree.


SANDERS: There`s so much to be discussed, Ed, and we`re not in this county
about anointing anybody for a nomination.

SCHULTZ: Yeah. Quickly Senator, when is your next trip to Iowa?

SANDERS: I think in a couple of weeks actually now that you asked.

SCHULTZ: I think you`re seriously thinking about it. No doubt. Senator,
good to have you with us tonight, I appreciate your time. Thanks so much.

SANDERS: Thank you, Ed.

SCHULTZ: You bet. That`s the Ed Show. I`m Ed Schultz.

Politics Nation with Reverend Al Sharpton starts right now. Good evening


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