CHRIS MATTHEWS, host:
Yeah, I think the one thing that grabs me is, what I like to do and find
in--like we all do, I think, in politics--is to find the little seed that's
going to become a big flower as an issue. And I think it's this discussion
about stem cell.
Bedside manner? Laura Bush tells victims and care givers of diabetes,
Parkinson's and Alzheimer's that hope is not on the way. Is this any way to
use a first lady?
Smother Teresa? Will the multimillionaire from Mozambique be the loose lips
of the Kerry campaign?
`I did have sexual relations with that man.' Will the gay governor's truth set
him free?
Plus my moveable feast. Riding a Suzuki motorbike through Africa in my 20s.
All that and more with an Olympian roundtable on your weekly news show.
Announcer: From Congress to the West Wing, he's been a Washington insider,
now he's one of the capital's top journalists. Chris Matthews.
MATTHEWS: Hi, I'm Chris Matthews and welcome to the show.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Interview: Newsweek's Melinda Henneberger, Chicago Tribune's
Clarence Page, Wall Street Journal's Kim Strassel, ABC News' Cokie
Roberts discuss Laura Bush vs. Teresa Heinz Kerry, stem cell
research, New Jersey Governor James McGreevey coming out
CHRIS MATTHEWS, host:
Let's go inside. Melinda Henneberger covers politics for Newsweek, Clarence
Page writes a column for the Chicago Tribune, Kim Strassel is an editorial
page writer for The Wall Street Journal and Cokie Roberts is the longtime--I
love that phrase--ABC News correspondent.
First up, bedside manner? This week the Bush campaign sent first lady Laura
to Langhorne, Pennsylvania--right where near where I grew up--to tell folks
that stem cell research is not all that John Kerry has it cracked up to be.
Ms. LAURA BUSH: (From Monday) Embryonic stem cell research is very
preliminary right now, and the implication that cures for Alzheimer's are
around the corner is just not right. And it's really not fair to the people
who are watching a loved one suffer with this disease.
MATTHEWS: Well, a lot of people watching us right now have--are caregivers,
we all know, sitting next to somebody with perhaps one of these diseases or
has them themselves. And Cokie, I want you to tell us what you think about
the way this issue's been raised in this campaign.
Ms. COKIE ROBERTS (ABC News): Well, what Laura Bush said is patently
correct; it is not around the corner and it does raise some false hopes for
some people. But it is also true that a lot of people feel that research
dollars are not going into stem cell research, and therefore researchers are
not going into--into the research, and that the promise is not being
fulfilled. The question is, is it a political issue? I think there's a lot
of inside-the-beltway echo chamber on this one. We're not seeing it in the
polls as anything salient. On issues--Chris, as you know--like abortion, gun
control, those...
MATTHEWS: Right.
Ms. ROBERTS: ...hot-button issues, it turns out to be 3, 4 percent of what
people care about when they come to a presidential election.
MATTHEWS: Right.
Ms. ROBERTS: Those aren't the issues that are getting...
MATTHEWS: Well, let's talk about that, Cokie, because that's not a bad number
to start with, 3 or 4 percent, because an election may well be
decided--48-to-51, 49-to-whatever, 49. The question is--Melinda, I want you
to get in on this thing. The question is, will people in the suburbs, which
is the targeted part of this country right now--urban areas tend to be
Democrat; rural areas tend to be Republican--when you go to those suburban,
those co--counties, of Pennsylvania where she went the other day to
talk--Bucks County, Montgomery County, Pennsylvania, those areas which will
decide the election--do you think people are going to vote on the health
issue, this issue?
Ms. MELINDA HENNEBERGER (Newsweek): No, not this year. I mean, I think it
could be an issue that people are talking about, but I think that Iraq and the
economy trumpet. The thing that surprised me about what Mrs. Bush had to say
is, here she is saying, `We can't--let's not give false hope. That's really
cruel,' and I just think that reminds people about all their statements about
how democracy in Iraq was around the corner.
MATTHEWS: Right.
Ms. HENNEBERGER: And I think that you could fairly make the case that that
was raising false hope more than...
MATTHEWS: Clarence, what does it say to a person who's--they're, say, the
early stages of Alzheimer's, the early stages of Parkinson's, where there's
still hope for that person to benefit from research, to come out and say, `Not
morally opposed to destroying embryos for the purpose of harvesting stem
cells, but I don't think there's much hope for this field'? Is that a smart
move?
Mr. CLARENCE PAGE (Chicago Tribune): Well, as many of my readers know, my
father passed away of Alzheimer's a few years ago, and I'm one of those that
believes that this is not a false hope, it's a slim hope. And a slim hope is
better than no hope at all.
MATTHEWS: Right.
Mr. PAGE: I think this is an issue that we in the beltway do overcomplicate.
I think that it's perceived by the public--and Annenberg polled this week, by
the way, with...
MATTHEWS: Right, 53 percent of Republicans say, `Go all the way with it.'
Mr. PAGE: You got it.
MATTHEWS: Seventy percent of voters say, `Go all the way with research.'
Mr. PAGE: You got it.
Ms. ROBERTS: Yes, but I...
Mr. PAGE: Even among anti-abortion voters, you find a lot of sympathy for
stem cell research.
Ms. ROBERTS: But, look, I have that poll.
Mr. PAGE: And I think that's the little, simple way to look at this, is, are
you pro-research or anti-research? And the administration is being perceived
as anti-research, and that's the danger for them.
Ms. ROBERTS: But the notion that this is something more in the suburbs and
more among married women, married women and suburban married people are less
supportive than the population as a whole.
MATTHEWS: But what do they--but they're still the majority.
Ms. ROBERTS: They're still high numbers.
MATTHEWS: But--sure.
Mr. PAGE: Yeah. Yeah. The...
MATTHEWS: But, Kim, you get in here.
Ms. KIM STRASSEL (Wall Street Journal): Well, the thing is, there's a
positive spin to put on this which I think the administration has not done. A
positive spin for those people who believe in stem sell research, which is
that we all know from experience that you do not want the federal government
to be the monopoly player in any one field of research. I mean, look at the
human genome project. When we just had a federally funded team that was doing
this, the estimation for when it was going to get done was years and years.
It was only when a private company came in and said, `We're going to do this
in half the time,' that things got started. So...
Mr. PAGE: But public companies are in it now.
Ms. STRASSEL: Right. But what I'm saying is, that is partly because
President Bush's restrictions are forcing private industry and researchers...
MATTHEWS: Well, let's go to that question.
Ms. STRASSEL: ...to be creative about their thing.
Mr. PAGE: Well, you know in the free market there's a great incentive for
private research anyway. The fact is, with government help there'll be a lot
more research, and that...
Ms. STRASSEL: We don't...
Mr. PAGE: ...will help us, hopefully, the way we got an AIDS treatment much
more quickly than we would have gotten otherwise.
MATTHEWS: OK, let's just--just to clarify that, what we call the "ban" is
really a ban on federal spending for this kind of...
Ms. STRASSEL: Yes.
Mr. PAGE: Right.
Ms. STRASSEL: Right.
MATTHEWS: But I'll tell you, all the polls show that people want this...
Ms. ROBERTS: Federal spending for new embryonic stem cells.
MATTHEWS: Right.
Mr. PAGE: Right.
MATTHEWS: That people want to see this research.
Ms. ROBERTS: This is for new embryos.
Ms. STRASSEL: Mm-hmm.
MATTHEWS: They want to see this research and they want to see it happening
now. My father--my mother died of Alzheimer's. This is a very common
experience, for those people watching. Alzheimer's, Parkins--diabetes,
everybody seems to have diabetes now. And child diabetes is particularly
nefarious. Let's take a look at THE MATTHEWS METER. We asked some of our
regulars, will the stem cell debate affect the presidential election? It's a
tie. Clarence, you voted no. You don't think it's big enough to drive votes.
I think you'd stick with that.
Mr. PAGE: Just like the country, boy, half and half. No. But what this
does show is that the Bush team is going after their base at this late stage,
and I find that to be surprising.
MATTHEWS: OK.
Mr. PAGE: Because this is a no-winner among people who are not their base.
Ms. STRASSEL: Mm-hmm. Right.
Ms. ROBERTS: Which is why it's a little bit surprising that they haven't
talked about it as the moral issue, as opposed to the...
Ms. STRASSEL: But...
MATTHEWS: Well, I predict, come October, the October surprise is going to be
Democrats and all these disease foundations like Diabetes Foundation and
Alzheimer's are all going to be talking about this; this is a big win for the
Democrats. And the proof of that is, watch who brings it up in the debate.
It won't be the president.
Let's check in with THE MATTHEWS METER again. We asked our regulars, who won
the week, Bush or Kerry? They gave it to Bush. Third straight week in a row,
but narrowly. They said the tough talk on national security which we heard
from the president edged out the minus in the stock market, which I believe
was still down at the end of the week.
Next up, smother Teresa? After a crush of questions about her rival for the
first ladyship, Laura Bush got irritated. She said, "All of the women who
have been married to presidents have been much more complicated or complex
than people perceive." You're the expert. Cokie:
Ms. ROBERTS: Let's do it. And they have been much more complex. This
notion that first ladies are suddenly in the public eye and have causes:
absurd. Martha Washington went to New York to become the first first lady,
wore homespun even though she loved silk because she knew it was a politically
smart thing to do, and was very involved politically, as has been every first
lady since. They are very complex people.
MATTHEWS: OK, can we get tricky here? This is the most trickiest part of the
conversation. Is Teresa Heinz Kerry too complex a woman to be first lady or
to get elected first lady, in effect?
Ms. HENNEBERGER: No. But I think it's funny for Laura Bush, again, to be
saying that, because she's done everything possible to hide the complexity we
assume she has. She doesn't--she presents herself in a very simple way, so
she doesn't want us to know.
MATTHEWS: She's not knocking back the margaritas on national television.
Ms. HENNEBERGER: She doesn't want us to know better, and...
MATTHEWS: She's not smoking--like Pat Nixon never smoked in public. She was
a chimney.
Ms. HENNEBERGER: And the White House has done everything they can to make
`complex' a dirty word.
MATTHEWS: Right.
Ms. HENNEBERGER: You know, `nuance.' what could be worse?
MATTHEWS: Well, let me ask you about--let's ask her about Teresa. Is
Teresa...
Ms. ROBERTS: But I don't think she's done that.
MATTHEWS: Let me--Cokie, I know you've got an idea here. You're ready for
it, so shoot it at me. Teresa Heinz Kerry, she grew up in Mozambique, she
came over here in her--in her adulthood--young adulthood, she--she married
John Heinz, the former senator--late senator from Pennsylvania. Is she a plus
or minus? And if she's a minus, what's the minus, her loose lips, the "Shove
it" comments, those kinds of things?
Ms. ROBERTS: I don't think she's a minus, no. I--I think that all of these
people are a help. But nobody votes for the first lady. They don't even vote
for the vice president. But I...
MATTHEWS: A lot of people voted against Hillary Clinton, let me--let me tell
you that.
Mr. PAGE: They also kind of voted against her husband anyway.
Ms. STRASSEL: I don't know--I don't think he was...
MATTHEWS: Well, they voted two or three times against him.
Mr. PAGE: I don't know anybody who said, `Well, I like that Bill Clinton,
but I'm going to vote against him because of his wife.'
Ms. ROBERTS: No.
Mr. PAGE: I mean, come on. Yeah.
MATTHEWS: You don't think?
Mr. PAGE: It doesn't happen.
Ms. STRASSEL: I think it's hard to be an asset to a president, but I think
it is possible to be a liability. And she is one of those...
Mr. PAGE: Was Hillary a liability?
Ms. STRASSEL: Hillary was probably a liability to a degree. And--and she
could be a liability if only because she--you know, people have talked a
little bit about Teresa Heinz Kerry and whether or not she's self-centered.
And I think what that is actually trying to say is, is she the sort of person
who puts her husband's campaign first? And I don't know if she is. And so...
MATTHEWS: What would you say if you were writing this right now?
Ms. ROBERTS: She's sure been out there.
Ms. STRASSEL: Well, no, I mean, I'm not saying she isn't involved in getting
him elected. But the question is, is when a reporter comes up to her and
questions her, she doesn't say, `Well, if I respond, "Shove it," is this going
to be bad for my husband?'
MATTHEWS: Right.
Ms. STRASSEL: She just responds, "Shove it."
MATTHEWS: Yeah, let me run through the problems with her, if there are any
problems.
Ms. STRASSEL: Yeah.
MATTHEWS: Is it her loose lips? Is it her tendency to say something like a
loose cannon? Is that a problem? You've covered her.
Ms. HENNEBERGER: No. I think the real problem is that she's a really
interesting woman and so, you know, people are so interested in her that it
could be a distraction. It's sort of like, you know, the strength as the
liability.
MATTHEWS: Who would you like to sit next to on a long flight, Laura or--or
Teresa?
Ms. HENNEBERGER: I have sat next to Teresa on a long flight and not Mrs.
Bush, so I know I had fun with Teresa. And I don't think we know Mrs. Bush
well enough to know what she's got.
Ms. ROBERTS: Well, I feel like I do know her well enough, and I would love
to sit next to her on a long flight. I would like to sit next to Teresa on a
long flight, too. I've sat with her on a train, which is almost the same.
MATTHEWS: OK, I'm getting nowhere with this. I'm trying to sharpen up this
debate here. Let me ask you, what does it--Clarence, the male here with me.
Mr. PAGE: Thank you.
MATTHEWS: What does this tell you about the male, who the male chose to
marry, Laura or Teresa?
Mr. PAGE: Ah, what's it tell you? Hm. Well, you know, I think Laura Bush,
who I have sat next to her at the Press Club, at head table. I find her to be
very pleasant.
MATTHEWS: Right, but you were wearing costumes, though, weren't you?
Mr. PAGE: I think--well, that's the gridiron. That's the gridiron. You've
got them mixed up. That's right. But I'd love to meet Teresa Heinz. I think
she sounds--seems really interesting and funny and all. But what does it say
about their husbands? I think Laura Bush certainly is the more traditional,
Southern steel magnolia, if you will. She's a very strong woman, very smart.
But does the--like with her word on her sleeve, so to speak. Teresa,
independent, feisty.
MATTHEWS: I love the way you say "Teresa." Say it again.
Mr. PAGE: Teresa.
MATTHEWS: I love that.
Mr. PAGE: I'm from the Mozambique, so, you know.
MATTHEWS: I know, I love that.
Mr. PAGE: But no, seems like...
MATTHEWS: OK, Clarence, the only male, you first. Can you imagine George
Wilson Bush, or whatever his name is...
Mr. PAGE: Walker.
MATTHEWS: Walker Bush. Can you imagine him marrying Teresa Heinz? Think
about it. Visualize it.
Mr. PAGE: No. No.
MATTHEWS: Can any ladies here imagine that marriage?
Ms. STRASSEL: Can you imagine Teresa Heinz Kerry in Texas?
MATTHEWS: No. Can you imagine? I'll get to the other one. I'll get to the
other one.
Ms. HENNEBERGER: There are a lot of guys out there with Teresa fantasies,
but I cannot believe that George W. Bush is one of them.
MATTHEWS: Well said.
Ms. ROBERTS: Well said.
MATTHEWS: I agree with that.
Cokie, can you imagine the president marrying...
Ms. ROBERTS: I can't imagine either of them married to--no.
MATTHEWS: OK, let's flip this baby.
Ms. ROBERTS: No.
MATTHEWS: Can you imagine John married to Laura?
Ms. ROBERTS: No, neither one.
MATTHEWS: So it does tell you something.
Ms. HENNEBERGER: In his single days, John Kerry was a man of pretty catholic
taste, so I think...
MATTHEWS: Lower-case C.
Ms. HENNEBERGER: Yeah. Yeah.
MATTHEWS: Available, in other words.
Ms. HENNEBERGER: So I think we might not know about that.
MATTHEWS: OK, let's go to THE MATTHEWS METER. Who's the bigger asset to her
husband, Laura or Teresa? Slam-dunk, smackdown, 10-to-0...
Mr. PAGE: Wow.
MATTHEWS: ...Laura Bush. What a cautious country we are.
Ms. ROBERTS: Her favorability ratings are very, very high. Higher than the
president's, higher than anybody who's out there.
MATTHEWS: Higher than Barbara's were.
Ms. ROBERTS: Yeah. I have them.
MATTHEWS: Before we go to break, everyone remembers Illinois' Barack Obama
singing his optimism at the Democratic convention.
Mr. BARACK OBAMA: (July 27) Hope in the face of difficulty. Hope in the
face of uncertainty. The audacity of hope. In the end, that is God's
greatest gift to us. The bedrock of this nation. A belief in things not
seen. A belief that there are better days ahead.
MATTHEWS: But how about this number from his surprise Republican rival?
Ladies and gentlemen, Alan Keyes.
Mr. ALAN KEYES: (Singing) "Somewhere over the rainbow, skies are blue."
Ms. ROBERTS: Wow.
MATTHEWS: He's good.
I'll be right back with the New Jersey governor's big shocker. Out of the
closet and out of office.
Plus what I learned from the people of Swaziland. Stick around.
(Announcements)
MATTHEWS: Have Americans changed their minds about gay politicians?
Plus two of the wildest years of my life. Stick with me.
(Announcements)
Governor JAMES McGREEVEY: (Thursday) At a point in every person's life, one
has to look deeply into the mirror of one's soul and decide one's unique truth
in the world. Not as we may want to see it or hope to see it, but as it is.
And so my truth is that I am a gay American.
MATTHEWS: Welcome back. That was New Jersey governor Jim McGreevey resigning
over a gay affair with a former employee. He quit apparently because he was
fearing disclosure by that aide.
Melinda, is the story here a gay official in trouble, or is it a gay official
who cheated on his marriage, or is it a story of corruption? What is it
about?
Ms. HENNEBERGER: I think it's a story of corruption. I think that he would
have had to leave office even if it had been a woman who he had brought on
unqualified into a job, let go. I mean, it's very...
MATTHEWS: OK, let's try this.
Ms. ROBERTS: But, Chris, we were all here...
MATTHEWS: Could he have been elected if he had acknowledged in his running
for office, `I have a gay male partner'? Would he have been able--so let's be
honest here. Is the gay taboo still strong enough that he would never have
even gotten in office, let alone been facing this problem?
Ms. ROBERTS: What, if he were married and had a...
MATTHEWS: No. OK, suppose he came into office, said, `I've got a gay
partner.' Could he have been elected governor of New Jersey?
Ms. ROBERTS: Probably. I think he probably could be at this point.
MATTHEWS: Does everybody agree with that? Kim, do you agree with that?
Ms. STRASSEL: I mean, I don't know. It's a complicated question, but it
kind of...
MATTHEWS: No, it's a simple question. Could he have been elected if he had a
gay partner?
Ms. STRASSEL: Well, it depends on--I mean, every--maybe. I don't know.
Mr. PAGE: You mean, without being married to a fair wife there.
MATTHEWS: Yeah.
Ms. STRASSEL: Right.
MATTHEWS: In other words, is it the gay factor here, or is it not at all the
gay factor?
Ms. STRASSEL: I think if there was a state you could have got...
Mr. PAGE: I bet California more than New Jersey.
Ms. STRASSEL: But you probably could have in New Jersey.
Mr. PAGE: Maybe. Maybe not.
MATTHEWS: But the reason I'm saying that is because I think he was pretty
shrewd in putting forward the issue of his identity and his orientation rather
than his behavior outside the marriage, which he mentioned. And certainly
never mentioned his public, perhaps, misbehavior of putting a lover on the
payroll.
Ms. ROBERTS: Well, that's the real thing. I mean, come on, we were all here
with Elizabeth Ray, you know?
MATTHEWS: He made him head of homeland security for New Jersey.
Mr. PAGE: Right.
MATTHEWS: OK.
Ms. ROBERTS: Wayne Hays had to leave Congress over having Elizabeth Ray on
the payroll. And that's what you're talking about here, is a guy who had
absolutely no qualifications, who then starts blackmailing him, and--you know,
there's the story.
MATTHEWS: OK, let me ask a question. I'm trying to get to the heart of this.
Kim, suppose he had a gay relationship--let's use our imaginations--with his
gay plumber. OK? He had the affair. Would he be getting in trouble now or
not?
Ms. STRASSEL: No, I mean, and that's just the thing. The gay community
probably is not happy with this in the end. I mean, this was not necessarily
good for them in that--I mean, he has decided to make this about the fact that
he was gay rather than about his action in office.
MATTHEWS: Right, he has. Fair enough.
Ms. STRASSEL: And the fact is, as was said, any elected official, straight
or gay, who'd had that sort of a situation, where they were basically having
an affair with someone that they were paying on their payroll...
Ms. ROBERTS: No, the taxpayers were paying.
Mr. PAGE: Right. Right.
Ms. STRASSEL: ...that the taxpayers were paying on their payroll, would have
had to step down.
Ms. HENNEBERGER: And unqualified.
Ms. STRASSEL: So in doing this, what he has done is sort of--there's going
to be a lot of voters out there who think that he stepped down because he was
gay, and that's not necessarily the case.
Ms. HENNEBERGER: Right.
Mr. PAGE: Right, right.
Ms. ROBERTS: Right.
MATTHEWS: But let me ask you--I'm trying to shave this down. Suppose there
was nothing to do with public payrolls, that this lover had nothing to do with
the government. It was just some guy he knew and he's admitting, `I've got to
tell you now because he's going to blackmail me, that this guy and I have been
having an affair on the side of my marriage.' Would that blow him out of
office?
Mr. PAGE: I don't think it would have. I think what we're overlooking here
is the state Democratic Party with the situation that they were in with
Senator Toricelli, who they talked into an early departure. And this is a
case of trying to get this out--smirk, smirk, giggle, giggle. You know.
Ms. ROBERTS: The garden state was fooled again.
Mr. PAGE: Well, I think that this is a case of, one could defuse what they
saw as a building issue. And this is not going away. The corruption side of
this I think we're going to hear more about.
Ms. ROBERTS: Well, there's a lawsuit.
Mr. PAGE: Right. And there are concerns that this is going to get in the
way of Kerry and the rest.
MATTHEWS: OK, what's the rule here? It used to be, the old rule of
politics--Clarence, you know, the older people here. Maybe I'm one of them.
I am one of them--was that it had to be sex-plus. It couldn't just be an
affair; it had to be you did something wrong with your public life. An
employee relationship, that obviously disqualifies.
Mr. PAGE: Dead girl or alive boy, as the old line goes?
Ms. ROBERTS: Right. Right. Edmond Edwards.
Mr. PAGE: Mm-hmm.
MATTHEWS: OK. Well, I think this--by the way, we'll all agree this qualifies
as a scandal?
Ms. ROBERTS: Oh, yes.
MATTHEWS: OK, good, we're there.
Ms. STRASSEL: But you know, Clarence..
MATTHEWS: For a while there, we couldn't say Clinton was a scandal.
Ms. HENNEBERGER: And one of the scandals to me was that the wife had to
stand there. I would like to say...
MATTHEWS: Oh, she stood there and, boy, she had nothing to say.
Ms. ROBERTS: That was just...
MATTHEWS: He could have given her the mike for a minute and said, `What do
you think, dear?'
Ms. ROBERTS: Well, he could have let her stay home.
Ms. HENNEBERGER: Yeah. Yeah.
MATTHEWS: `Let me go.'
Melinda, tell me something I don't know.
Ms. HENNEBERGER: Oh, gosh, Chris. I am wondering if, coming out of the
Republican convention, we're going to see a little softer coverage of the
president. You know, all the talk after Bush was elected of how Bush got
better coverage than Gore in 2000...
MATTHEWS: Right.
Ms. HENNEBERGER: ...because the food was better on the plane. So I'm just
wondering...
MATTHEWS: OK.
Ms. HENNEBERGER: ...after we get all our free facials and free dermabrasion
and...
MATTHEWS: OK, all right. They're going to buy us off. Clarence:
Mr. PAGE: OK, Chris. As you saw in the earlier clip, senator candidate Alan
Keyes will do better than expected in his first debate with Barack Obama in
Illinois because expectations are so low.
MATTHEWS: Good. Will he beat him?
Mr. PAGE: But he will lose in a landslide.
MATTHEWS: OK. Kim:
Ms. STRASSEL: Huge new focus this week by the press and meltdown by the
press over the investigation into the Valerie Plame affair, because suddenly
they're all being subpoenaed to come in and talk, and now suddenly this is a
First Amendment issue.
MATTHEWS: So what don't I know about that?
Ms. STRASSEL: When it was about Bob Novak, it was not about the First
Amendment.
MATTHEWS: Thank you for reading us your lead editorial today in The Wall
Street Journal.
Ms. STRASSEL: Yep. Read the paper.
MATTHEWS: Pride of authors, so fair enough. Cokie:
Ms. ROBERTS: I think the stuff that Kerry has been saying to great applause
lines on the campaign trail are going to come back to haunt him. `We can be
energy-independent.'
MATTHEWS: Right.
Ms. ROBERTS: This means taking away everybody's SUVs if you really want to
be energy-independent.
MATTHEWS: OK.
Ms. ROBERTS: `Social Security, not a problem.'
MATTHEWS: You scold.
Mr. PAGE: Ooh.
Ms. ROBERTS: That's what he said.
MATTHEWS: Thanks to a great roundtable. Melinda Henneberger and Clarence
Page, Kim Strassel and Cokie Roberts.
I'll be right back with my tales of Africa from the 1960s. Don't miss this
one. Stick with me.
(Announcements)
MATTHEWS: Coming soon, it's on to New York for the Republican convention.
Don't miss it.
Announcer: Today's show is brought to you by...
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Announcer: Closed-captioning provided by...
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Commentary: Reflections on Peace Corps experience in 1906s
CHRIS MATTHEWS, host:
"If you were lucky enough to have lived in Paris as a young man," Ernest
Hemingway wrote, "Then wherever you go for the rest of your life, it stays
with you, for Paris is a moveable feast." My moveable feast is the two years I
spent in Swaziland riding through this Southern African country on my 120
Suzuki, teaching Swazi traders how to keep their books. (Foreign language
spoken) `I work for your government. I've come to teach you business.' I got
to know those small businessmen personally, and in every little way they
could, they showed their kindness. Before we talked business, they always
insisted I had a Coke. As Swazis say, a `cold drink,' even if they didn't
have any way to make it cold. I got a lot out of those two years in the Peace
Corps, hitchhiking alone up through East Africa, crossing Victoria Falls
Bridge in the dark, loving Mozambique and Mombasa, and Zanzibar, falling for
Darsalam.
I was reminded of something at a big meeting of former volunteers last
weekend. We did it all, the jobs, the hitchhiking around, everything, at the
ground level, person to person, the way the founders of the Peace Corps, Jack
Kennedy and Sergeant Shriver, wanted it. I liked being an American abroad.
Back then, there was the kid on the Cairo street corner who asked me if I knew
John Wayne and then told me not to say anything bad about Muhammad Ali. There
was the Indian kid in Zanzibar whose walls were covered in rock 'n' roll
albums, who thought America was heaven. I came back from all of that with
some baggage I hope to never lose. People are people; they want to be
respected. Countries are countries; they want to be respected. Different
from us in so many outward ways, they are, in this essential way, just like
us.
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Sign-off: The Chris Matthews Show
CHRIS MATTHEWS, host:
That's the show. Thanks for watching. See you here next week.