updated 8/15/2005 10:43:12 AM ET 2005-08-15T14:43:12

Guest: Charlie Rangel, Virginia Snyder, Soso Whaley

TUCKER CARLSON, HOST: It‘s 11 p.m. in Beaufort, South Carolina, 9 p.m. in Ogden, Utah, and quitting time in Molokai.  We‘re here with news from all points in every direction, including plane crash survivors considering a mega-bucks lawsuit and an amazing act of decency by a kid who returned nearly 20 grand he found.

But first, here is THE SITUATION as we found it tonight. 

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CARLSON (voice-over):  George Hyatte first waived his extradition rights, then changed his mind this morning in an Ohio courtroom. 

GEORGE HYATTE, ESCAPED CONVICT:  I don‘t want to.  I don‘t want to. 

What—my wife didn‘t, right?

CARLSON:  Saying whatever his wife, Jennifer, wants to do is what he wants to do.  What they both want to do is fight extradition back to Tennessee, where they allegedly have killed a peace officer.  I‘d wish them luck, but even sarcasm has its limits. 

Everyone survived last week‘s fiery Air France crash in Toronto.  But now some of the 309 survivors are considering suing the airline for more than $250 million.  They claim the accident has left them with deep emotional scars.  It certainly has left them with a deep loss of perspective. 

The New York Fire Department obeyed a court order today and released thousands of pages of transcripts and hours of audiotape from September 11, 2001.  The department fought the release on privacy concerns, but a lawsuit brought by the “New York Times” and some families of 9/11 victims carried the very painful day. 

The “L.A. Times” reports that American Media, which owns “National Enquirer” and the muscle magazines that used to employ Arnold Schwarzenegger, paid a woman $20,000 to keep quiet about, quote, “interactions with the now-governor two days before he announced his candidacy.” 

Many Californians were appalled at the news.  But how many can be shocked?  Remember, they elected Arnold Schwarzenegger. 

In another dispatch from the Left Coast, the California State Supreme Court has ruled that a supervisor at cosmetic giant Loreal was within her rights not to fire an employee in favor of, quote, “someone hot” after being told to do so. 

In other words, a beauty company does not have the right to make judgments about the appearance of its employees, because that would be lookism.

Sirius Satellite Radio is being accused of silencing the voice of African-Americans.  Some members of the Congressional Black Caucus claim the network is pulling the plug on Jesse Jackson‘s low-rated show, among others, in favor of more commercial personalities like Howard Stern.  And for that matter, Richard Simmons. 

In news that brought joy to anyone who‘s ever sweated to the oldies, it was announced today that Simmons, a fitness guru, not a civil rights leader, will get his own show on Sirius this fall. 

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CARLSON:  To discuss our favorite topics of the night, let‘s welcome one of our favorite members of Congress: New York Congressman Charlie Rangel. 

Mr. Rangel, thanks a lot for joining me.

REP. CHARLIE RANGEL (D), NEW YORK:  Congrats on your new show. 

CARLSON:  Well, thank you, sir.  Now, tell me, why is Congress weighing in on what Sirius Radio ought to be putting on the air?  And why does Jesse Jackson need a show; he‘s everywhere?

RANGEL:  I have no clue.  I understand that the show in question, that you‘re talking about, is a subscriber‘s network.  So there‘s limited jurisdiction by the FCC.  But if you like gospel music, I guess you‘re supposed to shout out about it. 

CARLSON:  Well, the argument is that - that—the gospel music will bring diversity to Sirius Radio.  But Richard Simmons, it turns out, today announced that he signed a three-year deal with Sirius.  Don‘t you think Richard Simmons satisfies a diversity requirement?  I mean, there‘s really no one like Richard Simmons.  That‘s diverse. 

RANGEL:  Well, it all depends.  Diversity means that everyone has a different view about different things they like to hear.  And I guess Simmons has his group.  But I don‘t think he would represent the gospel group, or the Stern group. 

CARLSON:  I think you‘re right. 

RANGEL:  Right.

CARLSON:  He does not represent the gospel group. 

Now to the city of New York, trying to keep a hold on these documents from September 11.  These documents were already released, as you know, to Zacarias Moussaoui to use in his defense in his criminal trial.  The families want them.  The public wants to see them.  Why would the city of New York try and keep these documents and these tapes secret?

RANGEL:  Well, I don‘t know.  I could speculate that they thought it was—they did not want to pull scabs off of a wound and bring up the horrible voices that were heard, and the historic taping of what happened. 

But I think I agree with you, that if the family really wants to hear it, that they should.  And there probably would be lessons learned as things that we could have done better.  So I think it‘s always best when there‘s a dispute, to lean on the side of going public. 

CARLSON:  Amen, good for you. 

Now, I know you don‘t represent California, but Arnold Schwarzenegger, I have to ask you, the allegation that he—that a magazine for which he worked paid hush money to women he allegedly harassed.  Don‘t you think as bad as this is, that the people of California could expect it, since they elected Arnold Schwarzenegger in the first place, and that, really, they elected him to entertain them, and he succeeded?

RANGEL:  I agree with you.  It‘s just like an old movie script.  And whatever he comes up with, he is funny.  And I don‘t think anybody, except those people in California, ever take him seriously. 

CARLSON:  I wonder how many people there have. 

Now, Mrs. Sheehan, who‘s standing outside, whose son was killed in Iraq, standing outside the grate—the gates of the president‘s ranch in Crawford, Texas.  Democrats are attempting to make this into a sort of a pivotal moment for Bush: if he doesn‘t meet with her that he doesn‘t care about all the servicemen and women who have been killed in Iraq.  These an unfair standard, isn‘t it?

RANGEL:  I think it‘s unfair of you to describe a Democratic or Republican position.  When someone has lost their loved ones, they‘re entitled to do—people mourn in different ways. 

But I really think it was the president that made the issue out there when he indicated that we had to stay there, when the Iraqis go up we go down.  And that he was going to turn the fighting over to the Iraqis, once they‘re trained. 

Tucker, the question has to be, who are they fighting, who is the enemy, when do we win?  And we have to recognize that 70 percent of our men and women that are being killed are not engaged in combat; they‘re being blown up by these roadside bombs. 

CARLSON:  Right. 

RANGEL:  And the president has to deal with what‘s going on, do we bring troops home, do we increase troops there.  And yesterday he was thoroughly confused. 

CARLSON:  But his essential argument yesterday was that we can‘t leave now; there‘s chaos.  And we can‘t leave until we can leave in our place a legitimate Iraqi security force that can keep the place from collapsing into this black hole like Afghanistan was pre-9/11.  I‘m not even for the war, but that argument makes good sense to me.  Doesn‘t it to you?

RANGEL:  Well, it doesn‘t make sense.  What he‘s saying is that he‘s turning over the fighting to Iraqis to fight.  Now who in the heck are they fighting?  You know, we allegedly went in there to keep the fight away from us.  But some of the people that are fighting are not even Iraqis.  We don‘t know who they are.  We don‘t know whether they‘re insurgents. 

And so we ought to find out whether we‘re fighting the war or whether the Iraqis are fighting the war.  Who are we fighting?

And like you, we should never have gone in there in the first place.  The secretary of defense says that he doesn‘t know whether we‘re creating more terrorists than we‘re killing.  So he ought to take a deep breath and find out whether we‘re fighting them, whether the Iraqis are fighting them, who are we fighting and who do we negotiate with to say that we won?

CARLSON:  So I think you just made the president‘s case for him.  I mean, leaving aside your questions about whether we should be there in the first place—he says we should, you say we shouldn‘t, but the fact is we are.  And you‘re essentially saying exactly what President Bush said.  You can‘t leave until we figure out exactly who we‘re fighting and until we beat them. 

RANGEL:  I don‘t have a problem with that.  I don‘t know about who beats whom; maybe the Iraqis are the ones supposed to beat them.  But, you know, the thing is, that the president and the cabinet are so confused.

General Casey, who‘s our top military guy on the ground, says that we‘ll be pulling out troops next year before the congressional election.  Some other people are saying that we have to reinforce the troops in order to make certain we train these people.  The president says Iraqis go up, we go down.  This is no way to fight a war. 

CARLSON:  Now, I want to move to something, maybe, a little less combative, maybe only slightly less, and that is the upcoming Senate race in the state of New York. 

People are saying, of course, Mrs. Pirro has joined the race against Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton and already you‘re hearing people say what you‘re going to hear a lot of in the next year and a half, and this is Mrs.  Clinton—this is a weigh station on her way to the Democratic nomination for president. 

You talk to her a lot.  Do you think that she‘s going to run for president in ‘08?

RANGEL:  I think that is a good possibility, certainly if the American people are so impressed the way that she represents New York state in the Congress. 

CARLSON:  Then why should New York voters vote for her for another term in the Senate, knowing that she‘s just going to take off in a year and hit the road to campaign for president? 

RANGEL:  No one says that it‘s definite that she would do this. I‘m just saying that a lot of people want her.  But it would seem to me that you‘re not going to find Schwarzenegger‘s name being mentioned as a candidate for president. 

And I think my state should feel proud that we have such an outstanding senator that most Democrats would want her to represent them in the White House, again. 

CARLSON:  So don‘t you think she should go from she is now to run for president?  I mean, why even, you know, bore the rest of us with a Senate campaign when she can just go ahead and run for president?

RANGEL:  Because no one‘s nominated her for president.  What we have done is asked her to stand for re-election, and she‘s going to win this thing by a landslide. 

And Ms. Pirro, she‘s not running for the Senate.  She‘s just running to try to stop Hillary Clinton from being a viable candidate in the presidential election.  No one believes that she‘s in this race to win anything. 

CARLSON:  Yes.  Actually, I have to agree with you on that, I still hope she succeeds. 

Congressman Charlie Rangel of New York City, thanks a lot for joining us. 

RANGEL:  Good luck to you. 

CARLSON:  Thanks.

Still to come, “The Outsider,” Max Kellerman.  He‘s finished manicuring his beard, and he‘s about ready to argue stridently about three sizzling news stories. 

Max, you look fabulous. 

MAX KELLERMAN, ESPN:  Well, thank you.  You know, I love Charlie Rangel, love listening to him talk.  But I don‘t know about that Schwarzenegger not running for president, Tucker.  I‘m a little worried. 

CARLSON:  Kind of breaks your heart, doesn‘t it?

Plus, after the break, meet the gumshoe granny whose instincts and persistence brought about the release of an innocent man.  It doesn‘t happen often, but it happened here, an amazing story among amazing stories.  It‘s in The Crime Blotter,” and it‘s next. 

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CARLSON:  Still to come quite an evening on “The Crime Blotter.”  Saddam facing execution, a mailman bit by a barking human and a girl banned from ordering pizzas for a whole year.  We‘ve got the details.  We‘ll bring them to you next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CARLSON:  Welcome back.  Time for tales of wrongdoing and justice served.  “The Crime Blotter,” our nightly summary of who done it and who caught them. 

More bad news tonight for Saddam Hussein.  Iraqi authorities are building about a dozen cases against the deposed dictator for killing rival politicians and campaigns against the Kurds and the Shiites. 

But Saddam might not get on trial in all of them.  If he‘s convicted in the first, which is expected to begin this fall, he could be executed without waiting for the other trials to begin.  That‘s according to an official close to the proceedings. 

No crime is too small, or too strange for that matter, for us in THE SITUATION “Crime Blotter” not to take note of.  Watch this.

A story out of Louisiana, Mark D. Plumb charged with simple battery Wednesday after he ran from his house, barking, and bit a mailman on the shoulder.  We imagine it went something like this. 

Ugly, ugly, the depths to which man will go.  Once again, our crack producer hard at work. 

In the punishment fits the crime department, a case of pizza rage.  A Canadian teenager who assaulted a late-arriving pizza delivery woman won‘t be doing it again any time soon.  As a term of probation, the teen is banned from ordering pizza for a full year. 

Well, in Florida, a man who spent 25 years behind bars as the burglar rapist was freed last week after DNA evidence cleared him in several attacks. 

Moments after Luis Diaz was set free, his son thanked God, and then my next guest.  Virginia Snyder never believed he was guilty, and she spent 25 years proving it.  She‘s a former investigative reporter, private detective, and now a published poet. 

Thank you very much, Virginia Snyder, for joining us. 

VIRGINIA SNYDER, FORMER INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER:  Thank you for asking

me. 

CARLSON:  Why did you think that Mr. Diaz was not guilty of these rapes?

SNYDER:  The very first time I interviewed him, with Roy Black, the attorney and I questioning him, with a court interpreter, his face was perfectly blank, no matter what we said or asked, until the interpreter gave him the Spanish translation.  And then he had the appropriate reaction. 

This went all through, even at the trial.  When the victims were testifying against him, there was no reaction.  He would look at the interpreter until the interpreter told him what they said.  And then he would have the appropriate reaction. 

And yet a key part of his case against him was that he spoke English. 

And he did not speak English. 

CARLSON:  Interesting.  Now you were a private detective for a long time.  You‘ve seen a lot of people lie.  How do you know when someone is lying?

SNYDER:  I think it came—of course I didn‘t believe that he was innocent just because of that.  I had to wait until I did my own investigation.  And my own work proved to me not only that he was innocent, but who did do it. 

So now we‘re going after the people who actually did it.  It was not until the Innocence Project got involved that they were able to confirm what I had already done years ago. 

CARLSON:  Now, tell us about your work as a private detective.  Did—being a woman and older, did that give you an advantage?

SNYDER:  It certainly did.  We—women and older women, have the image of the helping profession: the nurse, the social worker, grandma, teacher.  And people are much more prone to trust you, invite you in, answer your questions, than they would be for a male. 

CARLSON:  Did people...

SNYDER:  Decided advantage. 

CARLSON:  Did people believe that you were a private detective?  Did you assume different identities?

SNYDER: I could assume different identities easily.  I could do the female version of Tim Conway‘s shuffling old man, and go just about any place.  Use stereotypes. 

CARLSON:  How often are innocent people convicted, do you think?

SNYDER:  I would say probably 10 percent of the time, based on my work.  I worked on 15 Death Row cases, and of those 15, five plus a co-defendant walked off Death Row, not because of what we did, but the work that we did were given to the attorneys to appeal, and that‘s frightening when you think of it. 

CARLSON:  Well, it‘s horrifying.  It says something—if true, it says something very troubling about the justice system. 

What about people?  You know, all those years of sort of being involved in the seamier sides of people‘s lives, and seeing people not at their most impressive, what did you learn about people?

SNYDER:  I think people are the same every place.  You have the good, the bad, the indifferent.  You have the ones who commit the most horrendous crimes, and yet there‘s enough humanity in them to feel sorry for someone else.  That was the case with Diaz. 

Another very hard-core criminal knew that Mr. Diaz was innocent, because he knew the gang that did the rapes.  And so he helped me.  It took a while to gain his trust, but once I gained his trust he gave me the information I need that confirmed I had the right people. 

CARLSON:  Now you‘ve been a reporter and a private detective.  Now you‘re a poet.  Tell me quickly how that transition worked?

SNYDER:  That‘s right.  Well, I was a poet from the time I was in elementary school.  And then I had 45 or 50 years that I didn‘t have much time to write poetry.  But when I retired seven years ago, I went back to my poetry, and I‘m loving it. 

CARLSON:  Could you read us a short selection of your poetry?  Do you have any with you?

SNYDER:  Well, this is my philosophy. 

CARLSON:  OK. 

SNYDER:  “Life beats against me, as I go.  But I embrace life, murmuring low.  Come, lover, welcome, we are one.  Why should we fight and spoil the fun.” 

My poems are generally serious, but not always serious, as you can tell. 

CARLSON:  I like that very much. 

SNYDER:  Then there‘s one—there‘s one, “He Doesn‘t Need Directions.”  And I think anybody would understand this, especially the women. 

“Of course I know where I‘m going.  Why did you ask me that?  I know exactly where I‘m going.  I just don‘t know where I‘m at.” 

CARLSON:  Virginia Snyder, private detective and now published poet, and guest on our show, we appreciate it. 

SNYDER:  Thank you. 

CARLSON:  Thank you. 

Still to come, the passengers aboard the Air France flight that crash-landed last week surely went through a frightening experience.  But do they have the right to sue for more than $300 million?

And, first it was the NCAA banning Indian mascots from postseason tournaments.  Now the Pentagon is employing a similar and similarly foolish tactic.  Find out what it is, in “The Outsider.”  We‘ll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CARLSON:  Welcome back.  It‘s time to meet “The Outsider,” a man whose use for newspapers expired when he had his fireplace converted to gas.  He‘s not a news man but he may be the most diabolically inventive devil‘s advocate since Morton Downey Jr.  Here is, ESPN Radio and HBO boxing host, Max Kellerman. 

KELLERMAN:  Back in the studio.  What, am I off probation?

CARLSON:  Morton Downey Jr.  Aren‘t you offended?

KELLERMAN:  I love Morton Downey Jr.  Please.

CARLSON:  Hard to offend you, Max. 

All right.  Talk about ungrateful.  Ten days ago they walked away alive and mostly uninjured from a fiery jumbo jet crash.  But mow some of the survivors of the Air France disaster in Toronto August 2 are considering a class action lawsuit, seeking more than $250 million for trauma, any future medical expenses and loss of property and earnings. 

They say they‘re having nightmares, flashbacks and trouble sleeping and eating.  I say they‘re greedy and ungrateful, Max. 

These are people who are sitting around a lawyer‘s office when they ought to be in church, in church on their knees in a pew, giving thanks to God they‘re still alive.  And they‘re blaming the airline for saving them. 

KELLERMAN:  Well, if they give thanks to God, they should blame the airline.  I mean, the bottom line is I can imagine serious emotional trauma from surviving an airplane crash.  I mean, couldn‘t you?

CARLSON:  Having done it, yes, I can. 

KELLERMAN:  You survived an airplane crash? 

CARLSON:  That‘s not what the point is.  The point is these people are alive.  OK?

KELLERMAN:  Yes. 

CARLSON:  You can‘t sue someone for something that didn‘t happen.  Moreover, were it not for the bravery and quick thinking of the flight attendants on that flight, they‘d all be crispy. 

KELLERMAN:  I thought it was God a second ago.  Now it‘s the flight attendants?  Make up your mind. 

CARLSON:  I think God had a hand in all of this. 

KELLERMAN:  Look, the emotion—you survived an airplane crash, you‘re wearing a polka dot bowtie and a plaid shirt on national television.

CARLSON:  Yes.

KELLERMAN:  Severe emotional trauma, Exhibit A, Tucker.  I think that‘s reasonable, even if there are no physical injuries. 

CARLSON:  I think it‘s appalling.  I think it sends the worst message.  Air France is actually handing out money to them already, just not a quarter of a billion dollars. 

KELLERMAN:  I‘d like to get in on that.  I‘m traumatized by the whole thing, even discussing it. 

CARLSON:  Hard to imagine you traumatized. 

Well, hard to defend the NCAA‘s decision to restrict the use of Indian mascot names among its member schools.  What has the Pentagon done following this, Max?  Followed suit, of course. 

NORAD—that‘s the Pentagon division that assesses risk in your air space, will no longer use American Indian code names for its exercises.  So farewell to missions called Fencing Brave and Warrior; hello to Fencing Dart and Phantom.  But will dart throwers and ghosts be offended?  That‘s my question. 

Look, who is offended?  That‘s my real question.  You shouldn‘t be allowed to make a P.C. decision like this until you can produce at least 50,000 people who are legitimately offended by what you have been doing.  And they haven‘t produced anybody. 

KELLERMAN:  Produce 50,000 Indians.  I mean, for crying out loud, haven‘t you heard Chris Rock?  He‘s seen a polar bear on a tricycle.  He‘s never seen three Indians sitting together at a Red Lobster.  I mean, there just aren‘t that many around, Tucker. 

Look, I don‘t think it‘s that big a deal that they change the names one way or another.  But you know, ghosts and whatever, ghosts and dart throwers, this country didn‘t break every treaty we ever made with ghosts and dart throwers. 

CARLSON:  Yes.

KELLERMAN:  We did with the Indian nations of this country.  And so I think it‘s also not unreasonable to want to be sensitive. 

CARLSON:  We did, America as country, mistreated the long-dead ancestors of the now-living Native Americans in America.  However...

KELLERMAN:  Look at the alcoholism rates, poverty rates, illiteracy rates. 

CARLSON:  I‘m not in any way beating up on Indians.  In fact, just the opposite.  I think your average Indian—I think polls would bear this out -- would be proud to have something as impressive as, you know, a Pentagon program to defend our air space named after Indian tribes. 

KELLERMAN:  Well, I mean, you can look at it another way, it‘s kind of a cheap way to alleviate guilt, right?  “Hey, you know, we did all these bad things.  We‘ll name a few defense programs after them, a few tactics after them, and we feel much better.”

CARLSON:  I think it‘s a sweet thing to do. 

KELLERMAN:  Fine.

CARLSON: But, if you have—if you have a heart get ready to have it warmed, Max.  That‘s an open question, of course. 

Twelve-year-old Jeffrey Little happened upon a cash wad of $19,900 in $100 bills in a parking lot in a garage at Los Angeles International Airport.  He did an incredible thing, young Jeffrey; he turned the money over to the cops. 

His reward?  A certificate, T-shirts, and a standing ovation from Hermosa Beach City council members and a cash thank you from the money‘s rightful owner.  Also, the knowledge he did the right thing. 

And also, gratitude from every honest American.  How could you possibly criticize a 12-year-old boy for returning almost 20 grand in cash?

KELLERMAN:  Well, I don‘t know, but apparently I have to right now. 

CARLSON:  Yes, you do.  I want to hear it. 

KELLERMAN:  He did the right thing.  That said, this guy was on his way to Vegas with $20,000 cash. 

First of all, if you find 20 grand in cash, I don‘t think the guy needs the money all that badly.  Secondly, who better to have the $20,000, Steve Wynn who is about to get it, or a 12-year-old kid?

CARLSON:  Yes.

KELLERMAN:  Wouldn‘t you rather a 12-year-old boy have that 20 grand than Steve Wynn?

CARLSON:  Actually, I would.  But if you‘re making an economic argument, this kid made the right economic choice.  Twenty grand, you could blow through that in a week on Pokemon cards and Harry Potter accessories. 

KELLERMAN:  In a week?

CARLSON:  Well, you know, two weeks, OK?  But the fact is, he gave this money back, thereby being famous for his honesty.

KELLERMAN:  Yes.

CARLSON:  Will actually pay him back much more than 20 grand over the course of his life.  “Hey, there‘s that honest kid, let‘s give him a high paying job.” 

KELLERMAN:  Oh, I like.  You fought my pragmatic argument with a more pragmatic argument. 

CARLSON:  Exactly.  That‘s exactly right.

KELLERMAN:  I tip my cap to you.

CARLSON:  This is in his long term interest.

I tip my cap to you, as always, Max Kellerman.  See you next week.

KELLERMAN:  Thank you.

CARLSON:  Still ahead, my highly acclaimed producer Willie Geist will join us next with this weekend‘s headlines, tonight.  Willie, what do you know?

WILLIE GEIST, MSNBC PRODUCER:  Highly acclaimed?  Thanks, Tucker.

I‘ve got a possible hurricane brewing in the Caribbean and a definite disaster brewing at the box office.  I‘ll tell you about both of those.  News of tomorrow, Tucker. 

CARLSON:  Can‘t wait.  Also ahead, the documentary “Super Size Me” got national attention for appearing to show the damage caused by fast food.  After the break I‘ll talk to a woman who lost 30 pounds doing almost exactly the same thing, eating McDonald‘s every day.  Her amazing story, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CARLSON:  Welcome back.

Did you see the documentary last year called “Super Size Me”?  Well, a guy gained 30 pounds and claimed his health deteriorated after he ate nothing but McDonald‘s. 

My next guest thought that film was junk science and she decided to do something about it.  She went on her own diet and also ate only at McDonald‘s.  She wound up losing 30 pounds and also lowered her cholesterol.  And, she made her own documentary in the process.  It‘s called “Me and Mickey D.”

Joining me is documentary filmmaker Soso Whaley.  Thanks a lot for joining me.

SOSO WHALEY, “ME AND MICKEY D”:  Thanks for having me Tucker.  Thanks

for having me.

CARLSON:  Quickly, what‘s the point of this documentary?  You ate at McDonald‘s a lot.  What does it mean?

WHALEY:  I ate at McDonald‘s for 30 days and lost ten pounds, went back and did it two more time and lost almost 30 pounds and I‘ve been able to maintain the weight loss.  I had a great time doing it.

CARLSON:  So, what does that prove?

WHALEY:  Well that basically “Super Size Me” was rather junk science run amuck and I think to blame fast food or anybody for your own weight problems is really not a very good idea.  It doesn‘t help the problem.

CARLSON:  I totally agree with that but here‘s what I honestly don‘t understand.  Why do people want to blame McDonald‘s?  Why is McDonald‘s a political issue?  Why do people hate McDonald‘s?  What is it?  I mean it‘s just a fast food restaurant.  Why are people emotional about McDonald‘s?

WHALEY:  Well, there‘s a lot of different reasons.  They‘re one of the most successful fast food or I should say quick service restaurants in the world and it‘s also politically correct for some reason or other to hate McDonald‘s.  I can‘t quite figure it out. 

I grew up in the ‘50s and ‘60s when McDonald‘s was just coming around and, to tell you the truth, we thought of it as a good thing.  Our mothers had more time to spend with us, you know, by taking us out to McDonald‘s every once in a while and not having to worry about cooking food.  I don‘t know how it got all turned around but there‘s a lot of different reasons for it.

CARLSON:  Because it‘s a middle-class American institution and some people just hate the American middle-class and all of its institutions from Wal-Mart to SUVs to McDonald‘s.  That‘s my view.

WHALEY:  Yes, sometimes it feels like that.

CARLSON:  So, you dedicate—yes, it does.  So, you dedicated this film to Julia Child.  Why did you do that?

WHALEY:  Yes.  Well, because you know Julia Child was someone who is well known, you know, in the public eye.  I know she passed away recently but I think people realize that she was one of those people who felt that personal responsibility, eating moderately.  You should enjoy your food just in moderation. 

CARLSON:  Even McDonald‘s.

WHALEY:  Even McDonald‘s, yes.

CARLSON:  So, has McDonald‘s contacted you?  I mean you ate at McDonald‘s.  You lost weight. 

WHALEY:  Right.

CARLSON:  That character Jared who did the same at Subway has become now a pitchman for Subway.  Has McDonald‘s called you to ask you to do ads for them?

WHALEY:  No, actually McDonald‘s whole take on this is hands off.  It would taint the project.  I didn‘t do this to become the Jared of McDonald‘s.  I did it so that I could try to present an opposite view from “Super Size Me” and to show what difference could be made if you take personal responsibility for your own choices.

CARLSON:  So, what did you learn about McDonald‘s in the process?  Are McDonald‘s different from McDonald‘s to McDonald‘s?  I‘ve always wondered that.  Is the food exactly the same in every McDonald‘s?

WHALEY:  Well, ideally the whole point is to have the food be exactly the same.  I mean that‘s the whole process to have the food made quicker.  But there are some differences and some of the restaurants actually market different types of foods for different reasons during the course of a year.

I know up in Canada right there they‘re marketing those grilled subs like you find at Quiznos and what have you.  I know they‘re doing something like that.  They have the new chicken sandwiches they just came out with.  It‘s really exciting.  They‘re doing a lot of fun things now.

CARLSON:  So, I‘m not surprised that Canadian McDonald‘s have something freakish like a grilled sub.  That doesn‘t shock me at all.  What‘s your favorite thing in McDonald‘s?

WHALEY:  Well, actually my favorite meal, I have to be honest, was a medium chocolate shake and medium fries.

CARLSON:  Ah, me too.

WHALEY:  But I love the Big and Tasty.  I think that‘s great.

CARLSON:  It is good, yes.

WHALEY:  The McGriddle sandwich, I don‘t know if you‘ve tried the McGriddle sandwich.

CARLSON:  I have it every time I fly.  It‘s the breakfast of champions.

WHALEY:  Yes.

CARLSON:  It‘s actually a great breakfast sandwich.

WHALEY:  It is.  It‘s got everything there, you know, proteins, some grains and stuff.  And, of course, the fruit and yogurt parfait, you know, one of my favorites.

CARLSON:  That‘s outstanding.  So, if you were—just for those at home watching who want to go on their own McDonald‘s 30-day diet and possibly lose ten pounds in the process just sketch out a typical day‘s menu for them.

WHALEY:  Oh, it‘s pretty simple.  Basically, I might start out the morning with say, well say I start it with a McGriddle and some orange juice.  That will put me at about 500, 600 calories.

Then for lunch I might have a salad.  Maybe I‘ll have the Cobb salad that they have and that‘s actually pretty light, if you have the chicken on it about 300 calories or so.

And then for dinner, well I‘ve got plenty of room left if I‘m staying at about 2,000 calories, which was my goal every day.  So, maybe I‘ll have one of the big chicken sandwiches that they have or a Big Mac, something like that for dinner.

It‘s basically counting the calories, paying attention to what you‘re eating and, you know, just making healthy choices.  You don‘t want to eat Big Mac‘s all day long.

CARLSON:  No, I would actually but is there anything you don‘t want to eat at all at McDonald‘s?  I mean is there anything you really came to dislike?  Is there any entr’e that you think is just bad?

WHALEY:  Well, nothing that I dislike but I do think the fish sandwich is a little dry.  I think they need to work on the fish sandwich a little bit, maybe pep it up a little bit.

CARLSON:  Yes, I also think...

WHALEY:  Other than that, everything I liked.

CARLSON:  Fish seems a bit of an overstatement with the Filet O‘ Fish. 

And finally, have you kept the weight off?

WHALEY:  Yes, I have.  As a matter of fact I weighed in at 135 the other day, so that‘s almost 40 pounds which I‘ve lost and, you know, continue to maintain.

CARLSON:  I think you look great.

WHALEY:  Thank you.

CARLSON:  Well, we‘ll see you at McDonald‘s, Soso Whaley.

WHALEY:  Yes.

CARLSON:  Filmmaker, McDonald‘s aficionado and now a guest on our show, thanks.

WHALEY:  Thank you.

CARLSON:  Joining me now to discuss some of the stories you‘ll be talking about this weekend, my extremely hot, at least according to our viewers, producer Willie Geist.

GEIST:  I know.

CARLSON:  I know it‘s sick.

GEIST:  Enough with the hot.

CARLSON:  I can‘t help it though, Willie.

GEIST:  Let‘s let that one go.  I‘m with her, McDonald‘s.  People who blame McDonald‘s for the downfall of western civilization are evil.

CARLSON:  I hate to—I hate to be like, you know, the hysterical right winger about this but there is something kind of—it is kind of an attack on America.

GEIST:  It is.

CARLSON:  I actually feel that way.  I can‘t help it.

GEIST:  And there‘s a simple alternative.  Don‘t eat at McDonald‘s.

CARLSON:  Yes.

GEIST:  Just like people who rail against Howard Stern, turn it off. 

That‘s all.

CARLSON:  Yes, or how about stop lecturing me about what I ought to eat.  Buzz off.  Mind your own business.

GEIST:  I totally agree.

That‘s a good way to start the weekend.

CARLSON:  All right.

GEIST:  Here‘s tomorrow.

CARLSON:  Let‘s see what‘s going on.  Deadline for new Iraqi constitution is Monday, the panel of majority Shiites, minority Sunnis and Kurds debating provisions of the constitution, Washington pressing Iraqis to meet the deadline.  The sticking point is the role of Islam and the status of women in the constitution.  Yes, those are sticking points aren‘t they?  There are a lot of people in Iraq who would like to see Sharia law underpin the constitution.

GEIST:  I think there are a lot of people in the United States who don‘t know what this means exactly.  OK, so they‘re going to have a constitution on Monday.  What does that mean for us?  I mean is this just - - is Washington pressing so that we can stabilize them and get out of Iraq or what is it?

CARLSON:  I think a lot of people don‘t know what‘s happening at all.

GEIST:  Well, that‘s obviously true.

CARLSON:  And this will in some part define, you know, whether we‘ve succeeded or failed there.

And from weather news, tropical storm Irene bearing down on the East Coast, it could become a hurricane, not to scare you.  Forecasters say the storm could strike anywhere from South Carolina to New Jersey and that is one of those stories we‘ll definitely—Sean McLaughlin and all the other MSNBC...

GEIST:  Will be on it in the weather center, yes they are.

The latest story is it looks like it‘s possibly going to slow down and move out to sea a little bit, so as long as nobody gets hurt I can safely say don‘t mess up my weekend Irene.

CARLSON:  Yes.

GEIST:  Let‘s keep the skies clear.  That‘s all I ask.

CARLSON:  Irene, that‘s a nice name for a storm.

GEIST:  Thank you.

CARLSON:  Actually I like that.

Well, Rob Schneider is back with a sequel to “Deuce Bigalow Male Gigolo.”  It‘s called “Deuce Bigalow European Gigolo,” naturally.

GEIST:  Sure.

CARLSON:  It opened today.  The first movie made $93 million worldwide despite being not very good.

GEIST:  Pretty good.

CARLSON:  I‘m not even sure if he has (INAUDIBLE).  I‘m not even sure that has anything to do with anything whether it‘s good or not.  That‘s like such an abstract concept.

GEIST:  Of course—of course not.  Are you aware of Rob Schneider, his work?

CARLSON:  Yes, or his (INAUDIBLE)?

GEIST:  Yes.

CARLSON:  Yes, sort of.

GEIST:  He‘s not so good.  He was on “Saturday Night Live.”

CARLSON:  Yes.

GEIST:  He was on “Saturday Night Live.”  I didn‘t find him particularly funny but...

CARLSON:  He‘s kind of funny.

GEIST:  But you know what...

CARLSON:  He‘s got one of those, you know, funny faces.

GEIST: ...he made $93 million on that last movie.

CARLSON:  Yes.

GEIST:  So, you know, there‘s not so much you can say about him.

CARLSON:  Kind of comparable to a cable salary.

GEIST:  Yes, close.  Roger Ebert calls this movie “aggressively bad.”  It tried coming at you with its badness.  It‘s that bad and I tend to believe him.  Schneider goes back to Europe, reunites with his old pimp, who‘s running a man whore service over in Europe and the guys are back in business.

CARLSON:  Oh, that‘s disgusting.

GEIST:  Yes.

CARLSON:  See I wouldn‘t watch that.  It doesn‘t sound that good.

GEIST:  No, it‘s not good but, you know what, a lot of people are going to go see it this weekend and we‘ll be talking about it on Monday.

CARLSON:  Yes, we‘ll be talking about it.  I‘m sure we‘ll do a whole segment on “The Situation.”

GEIST:  Absolutely.

CARLSON:  And you can look forward to that.  Willie Geist...

GEIST:  You got it.

CARLSON: ...we‘re going to see you on the “Cutting Room Floor.”

GEIST:  I‘ll be there.

CARLSON:  In mere moments.

Coming up, depending on your definition, the Black Widow made television history on this show last night and viewer response has ranged from disgust to glee all in one phone call.

Plus, more TV history at MSNBC, we tried to hire this window washer for our show, then realized there are no windows on the “Cutting Room Floor.”

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

JOE:  Still to come on this Hawaiian shirt Friday, viewers voice in on last night‘s sausage eating extravaganza—Tucker.

CARLSON:  No matter what they say, Joe, I think you look great.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CARLSON:  Welcome back.

Sitting in tonight for Ace Frehley, I‘m Tucker Carlson, this week we‘ve tried a new segment where we encourage you to share your thoughts, so to speak, about a story in the news, the show itself or even me.  Our mailbox already full let‘s hear what you had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. TORMONE, MOBILE, ALABAMA:  Tucker, this is Dr. Tormone from Mobile, Alabama.  You‘re a husband and a father of four children, quit smoking.  I like your show.  Ditch that bowtie.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CARLSON:  Well, thanks doctor.  Actually, I already did quit quite sometime ago without being (INADUBIBLE) by anybody and I will.  If I can just put a plug in for probably the greatest product ever made it‘s called Nicorette and, if you‘re looking to quit, this is the stuff. 

The government ought to subsidize this.  In fact, next time you want someone to quit rather than bothering him and telling him about the health risks of smoking buy him some Nicorette.  That‘s the most compassionate thing you can do—next up.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALANA, WINSLOW, ARIZONA:  Hey, Tucker, this is Alana from Winslow, Arizona.  I was just recently watching the news and they ran a story on people having sex on nude beaches.  People seem to have a problem with that.  You know, they‘ve even been talking about having separate beaches.  What‘s up with that?  I‘m a little confused, naked, sex, they kind of seem to go together don‘t they?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CARLSON:  That‘s a great story.  It‘s actually kind of a creepy story.  I grew up in La Jolla, California which had one of the only legal nude beaches in the United States called Black‘s Beach and it was a difficult place to go and hang out, a difficult place even to surf because there were so many people having sex on the beach, you know.  I‘m pro beach, pro nudity, pro sex but it kind of wrecks it for everyone else when you‘re doing it right on the beach.  That‘s been my experience—next up.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRISTY, NORTH CAROLINA:  Hey, Tucker, it‘s Christy from Kannapolis, North Carolina and I just want to let you know that we‘re watching your show and you went out onto the “Cutting Room Floor” and did not untie your bowtie, how dare you?  Fix that next time.  Goodbye.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CARLSON:  Well, Christy, the truth is I couldn‘t take it off because it‘s a clip-on.  No, that‘s not true.  I will say though you‘ll never see a member of the Nation of Islam, all of them of course wear bowties, loosen his bowtie, why? 

Because the Nation of Islam guys, and I‘ll probably get shot to death for saying this in public, all wear clip-on ties.  They can‘t tie their own bowties, which is kind of sad. 

I guess I just got so caught up in last night‘s show, I was having such a great time I forgot to loosen my tie but I‘ll never forget again.  Thanks for paying such close attention—next up.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CRAZY DAVE, AKRON, OHIO:  I‘m Crazy Dave from Akron, Ohio and I just wanted to say the lady that ate the bratwurst that kind of bordered on porno but being a died-in-the-wool liberal I loved it.  Thank you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CARLSON:  All right, Crazy Dave, you really are crazy and not in a good way.  If you thought last night the world champion bratwurst eater was sexually appealing, you‘re a sick man, a sick man.  You need help.  There was nothing—I mean she was a very, very sweet woman, Crazy Dave, but there was nothing pornographic about that. 

And, I think, I don‘t normally judge other people‘s, you know, internal fantasies but I think I can safely say that‘s just wrong, Crazy Dave.  Get the help you need.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANONYMOUS, INDIANAPOLIS, INDIANA:  Hey, I‘m from Indianapolis, Indiana, just moved here a while back.  I just love your show and, Tucker just rhymes with a lot of good words.  And that girl with the short hair, I can‘t think of her name because I had two glasses of wine, but oh God she‘s great and very bright and I get all my news from you and thank you very much, ciao, meow.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CARLSON:  Did you just meow at me?  Well, first off, the girl with the short hair, as you put it, is called Rachel Maddow and she joins us most nights.  She‘s great.

And let me just make the obvious point, anonymous caller from Indianapolis and that is our show goes better with wine but know when to say when.

All right that‘s it for the voicemail this evening.  I want to hear what you have to say.  Everyone says that but in this case I really mean it so give us a call, 1-877-TCARLSON, numerically that‘s 877-822-7576. 

Leave a message about a story in the news, our show and even hear yourself on television if you do so.  We actually do listen to these after the show.  The producers sit around in a circle and listen to your messages and laugh at you, so leave one.

Still ahead on “The Situation,” the famous waterskiing squirrel has new rivals in the animal aquatic sports division.  A bunch of mice wax up their boards and ride the waves all the way to the “Cutting Room Floor” next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CARLSON:  Welcome back.

It‘s time now for the “Cutting Room Floor” where we sweep up all the odds and ends of news, all the unfinished business from the show and bring them to you.  Willie Geist back again.

GEIST:  And meow to you Tucker.

CARLSON:  You know, Willie, I‘ve been called a lot of names.  It‘s sort of what happens when you‘re on TV.  People call you names, weigh in with their opinions.  I have never once in many years of doing this been meowed at and, I got to be honest, I like it.

GEIST:  I was going to say I sort of liked it too.  We were listening to the messages upstairs earlier and that was one of our favorites.

CARLSON:  That was a legitimate meow, wasn‘t it?

GEIST:  Yes, call back anytime madam.

I got to give you one update.  Remember that Brazilian bank heist that we were so excited about?

CARLSON:  Yes.

GEIST:  They stole $68 million.

CARLSON:  They tunneled underneath the building.

GEIST:  It was “Ocean‘s Eleven.”  These guys were geniuses.  Today, they were caught because they were shipping a cargo container full of luxury cars.

CARLSON:  No, they weren‘t.

GEIST:  Didn‘t you see “Goodfellas”?  You don‘t buy it right away. 

You lay low.

CARLSON:  The Cadillac and the pink fur coat.

GEIST:  Ah!

CARLSON:  Actually, you know, that annoys me because I like the crime stories where the people are not only smart enough to tunnel underneath the bank, and I‘m not endorsing crime obviously, however, if you‘re going to do it, you should also be smart enough to enjoy your ill-gotten gains.

GEIST:  Of course.

CARLSON:  Ill-gotten as they are.

GEIST:  Of course.  I‘m totally disappointed because it was such a good story.

CARLSON:  I am too.  Criminals always fall short of your expectations don‘t they?

GEIST:  Always.

CARLSON:  That‘s the thing about criminals they always let you down. 

Don‘t marry one.

Well, we can all agree that mice probably shouldn‘t be surfing but I think we can also agree it‘s pretty darn funny when they do.  Australian Shane Wilmot (ph) has trained a family of mice to ride the waves on mini surfboards. 

He first taught the furry little guys in his own bathtub before sending them out to hang ten on Australia‘s Gold Coast.  Wilmot says it‘s been his goal since childhood to teach mice how to surf, seriously.

GEIST:  Is that right?  It‘s been your goal since childhood?  So what he‘s really saying is it‘s been my goal since childhood to drown mice essentially is what he‘s saying.  I bet he had a goal to help guinea pigs fly too and show insects how to look through a microscope.

CARLSON:  Rabbits how to diffuse M-80s, right?

GEIST:  A magnifying glass, yes exactly.  This guy is a real animal lover.

CARLSON:  Actually I think it‘s—I think it‘s sicker than that.  I take him at—I take him at his word.

GEIST:  Ah!

CARLSON:  Which means he‘s into real fetishes of some kind.

GEIST:  No mice surf, that‘s it.

CARLSON:  Well, the controversy over same-sex unions is bubbling in Massachusetts again today but it‘s not about gay marriage this time.  It‘s about gay swans.  Tests have revealed that Romeo and Juliet, a pair of beloved swans who swim in Boston Public Garden are, in fact, Juliet and Juliet.  The city conducted the test several years ago but didn‘t tell the public for fear of shattering a perfect Shakespearean love story.

GEIST:  God forgive them.

CARLSON:  Really so many questions, who did the testing and why?  And who decided the public wasn‘t ready for this terrible news?

GEIST:  Parks and Recreation on both counts.

You know this is a hilarious story because it‘s totally become a microcosm of the same-sex marriage debate.

CARLSON:  Yes.

GEIST:  A group has come out and said one of the Juliets has to be replaced with a Romeo and then there‘s another group...

CARLSON:  Not really.

GEIST:  I swear and another group is saying if they‘re happy together, let them be together.  Who are we to tell them how to live their lives.  I swear.  I‘m not making that up.

CARLSON:  Really Massachusetts, I would say about 40 percent of all of our stories come from Massachusetts.

GEIST:  That‘s true.

CARLSON:  Why is that?

GEIST:  I don‘t know.

CARLSON:  This little—this little commonwealth on the sea produces so much lunacy.

GEIST:  And look for same swan unions to be banned in eleven states pretty shortly after this.

CARLSON:  We want to update you now on that important stripper spanking story that we told you about a couple of weeks ago.

GEIST:  Yes.

CARLSON:  It actually turned into a lawsuit.  You‘ll remember that Keith Lowry (ph) was celebrating his 31st birthday at a strip join in Jacksonville, Arkansas when he says strippers spanked him so hard he couldn‘t sit down for five days.  The exotic dancers now have pleaded not guilty to battery in that case.  Lowry says he was handcuffed and spanked excessively with a three-foot-long paddle.  Any spanking with a three-foot-long paddle is excessive in my view.

GEIST:  I agree and we do pride ourselves on bringing you the latest so we will keep you up to date on this story about a man who says he was spanked too hard by three strippers in Arkansas.

CARLSON:  In the words of the Drudge Report, it‘s developing hard.

Well, we here at MSNBC are fortunate enough to have one of the great moments in television history take place on our air this very morning.  Our own Chris Jansing was interviewing AAA spokesman Mantel Williams about rising gas prices when a window washer swooped down and began cleaning the window behind Williams. 

The washer soaped up the window and then swung back and forth wiping it as Jansing and Williams tried in vain to continue their interview. 

GEIST:  I thought she actually held it together pretty—oh!

CARLSON:  Hey, Mike, it‘s not over yet.

GEIST:  Aren‘t we red in the face.

CARLSON:  Time now for our special tip of the cap to our “Cutting Room Floor” human of the week.  We bestow this week‘s honor upon Reda Jaeschke (ph).  You‘ll remember her as the 64-year-old woman who used her cane to fight off an armed robber at her Massachusetts farm stand.  She explained this incident in this sound byte for the ages.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAESCHKE:  Get the hell off my register and get your gun out of my face.  And I took this cane and I said, “Keep on walking, just keep moving and get out of here” and he did.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GEIST:  Tucker, this week‘s race for human of the week was not close.

CARLSON:  It was not even.

GEIST:  She‘s the human of the year in my books.

CARLSON:  I also want to thank, Mike, our floor director for a special guest appearance.

GEIST:  Well done.

CARLSON:  That‘s “The Situation” for tonight.  Thanks for watching.  Most of all have a great weekend.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

END   

Content and programming copyright 2005 NBC.  ALL RIGHTS  RESERVED.  Transcription Copyright 2005 Voxant, Inc.  ALL RIGHTS  RESERVED. No license is granted to the user of this material other than for research. User may not reproduce or redistribute the material except for user‘s personal or internal use and, in such case, only one copy may be printed, nor shall user use any material for commercial purposes or in any fashion that may infringe upon NBC and Voxant, Inc.‘s copyright or other proprietary rights or interests in the material. This is not a legal transcript for purposes of litigation.

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