CHUCK TODD:
This Sunday: The Senate approves Covid relief.
SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER:
We're not going to let anything stop us until we got the job done. And by God, we did. Here we are.
CHUCK TODD:
Democrats pass their $1.9 trillion Covid relief bill --
PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN:
Today I can say we've taken one more giant step forward in delivering on that promise that help is on the way.
CHUCK TODD:
-- all without Republican votes.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
Count me out for a $1.9 trillion spend-fest.
CHUCK TODD:
Now, will Democrats pursue other priorities without GOP support or even try to kill the filibuster? I'll talk to Democratic Senator Joe Manchin, a key figure in that debate, and Republican Senate Conference Chairman, John Barrasso. Plus, Covid, one year later. A year after the WHO declares a pandemic, vaccinations have hit two million a day. But new variants and states loosening restrictions --
GOV. GREG ABBOTT:
It's just that now state mandates are no longer needed.
CHUCK TODD:
-- have experts worried about a fourth wave.
DR. ROCHELLE WALENSKY:
We have seen this movie before. When prevention measures like mask mandates are rolled back, cases go up.
CHUCK TODD:
My guests this morning: White House Coronavirus coordinator Jeff Zients and epidemiologist Dr. Michael Osterholm. Also, New York Governor Andrew Cuomo's troubles deepen.
CHARLOTTE BENNETT:
He implied to me that I was old enough for him and he was lonely.
CHUCK TODD:
More women now coming forward. Could harassment allegations and a nursing home probe force the governor to step down or not seek re-election? Joining me for insight and analysis are: Yamiche Alcindor, White House correspondent for PBS NewsHour, former Homeland Security Secretary Jeh Johnson, Danielle Pletka of the American Enterprise Institute and NBC News Senior Political Reporter Jonathan Allen. Welcome to Sunday. It's Meet the Press.
ANNOUNCER:
From NBC News in Washington, the longest-running show in television history. This is Meet the Press with Chuck Todd.
CHUCK TODD:
Good Sunday morning. It was on January 1st of last year that the WHO announced the discovery of a mysterious coronavirus-related case of pneumonia in Wuhan, China. We didn't know it at the time, but we were about to experience the worst pandemic in a century. By February 29, we had the first reported death from Covid-19 in this country. And then on March 10, a year ago this week, with total US cases still under a thousand, President Trump said this.
[BEGIN TAPE]
PRES. DONALD TRUMP:
We're prepared, and we're doing a great job with it, and it will go away. Just stay calm.
[END TAPE]
CHUCK TODD:
We were not prepared. We were not doing a good job. And it still has not gone away. The next day is the one that we all remember. That’s the day the WHO finally declared Covid a pandemic. It’s when Tom Hanks announced that he and his wife, Rita Wilson, had tested positive for the virus. And it’s the day after multiple NBA players tested positive, that the league shut down. Since then, there have been more than 526,000 deaths and more than 29 million cases reported in the United States. Millions have lost jobs, schools have been shuttered, and our entire way of life has been upended. And now, even as the case and death rates have fallen in the past two months, new variants are threatening to produce a fourth wave, while governors are loosening restrictions, prompting fears that spiking the football too early here will lead to a new spike in cases. But President Biden and Democrats are hoping their new $1.9 trillion bill will help blunt the pain of any new surge. And keep this in mind, with this bill, which passed yesterday without any Republican support, we have now thrown $6 trillion in a year at this crisis.
PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN:
This plan puts us on a path to beating the virus. This plan gives those families who are struggling the most the help and the breathing room they need to get through this moment.
CHUCK TODD:
It's a victory for the new president and for Senate Democrats.
SEN. PATRICK LEAHY:
As amended is passed.
CHUCK TODD:
The Covid relief bill includes new money for testing, contact tracing and education, for state and local governments, an expansion of unemployment benefits, $300 a week through September 6, and the child tax credit, and $1400 dollar direct payments to many Americans.
SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER:
The American Rescue Plan will go down as one of the most sweeping federal recovery efforts in history.
CHUCK TODD:
Democrats stripped out a minimum wage increase that had passed the House, after seven Democrats and one independent who votes with them voted against it.
SENATE CLERK:
Ms. Synema, no.
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS:
We can no longer tolerate millions of our workers being unable to feed their families, because they are working for starvation wages.
CHUCK TODD:
The Covid relief bill is widely popular. 70% approve of President Biden's handling of the pandemic, including 44% of Republicans. Despite that, elected Republicans have argued against it, citing process --
SEN. JOHN THUNE:
Every Republican should vote against it. And the reason why is they completely cut us out of the process.
CHUCK TODD:
-- cost --.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
Count me out for a $1.9 trillion spend-fest.
CHUCK TODD:
-- and arguing the economy is already strong enough --
SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL:
Our country's already set for a roaring recovery.
CHUCK TODD:
This week two more Republican governors announced an end to mask mandates, and they allowed businesses to reopen at 100% capacity.
GOV. GREG ABBOTT:
Every Texan knows what to do right now. They don’t need a state mandate to tell them what to do.
GOV. TATE REEVES:
We are not going to continue to use the heavy hand of government when it is no longer justified by the reality we see.
CHUCK TODD:
At least 17 states in all plan to drop mask mandates or do not require masks now.
GOV. JIM JUSTICE:
I don't know, really, what the big rush to get rid of the mask is because these masks have saved a lot, a lot of lives.
CHUCK TODD:
And joining me now is Jeff Zients. He's the White House Coronavirus Response Coordinator. Mr. Zients, welcome to Meet the Press.
JEFFREY ZIENTS:
Thank you, Chuck. Thank you for having me.
CHUCK TODD:
You got it. I want to start with a promise that President Biden said earlier this week. He said, "We are now on track to have enough vaccine supply for every adult in America by the end of May." Now, he was careful not to say that meant that we were going to have shots in the arms by the end of May. But walk me through that. What does that mean? What should people that don't have vaccines right now take away from that? How soon after the end of May should they expect to be vaccinated?
JEFFREY ZIENTS:
Well, Chuck, let me start with it's really big progress to have enough vaccine supply for all adult Americans by the end of May. When we walked into office six, seven weeks ago, there was not enough supply and it was pushed much further out. The actions by the president, including using the Defense Production Act and bringing Merck and Johnson & Johnson together into a historic partnership have accelerated our ability to have enough vaccine by the end of May for all adult Americans. That's progress. And that is really important. At the same time, we've ramped up the number of shots per day. When we came into office, the prior week was 900,000 shots on average per day. We right now are averaging 2.2 million shots per day. We've had three record days in a row. In fact, yesterday was 2.9 million shots in a single day. So we're making real progress by increasing the number of vaccinators in the field. There are 3,500 federal personnel and National Guard now helping at community vaccination sites and other locations to put needles in arms. And we've increased the number of places where Americans can get vaccinated by standing up community vaccination centers, over 500 of them. And at the same time, making shots available at local pharmacies and at community health centers, which serve some of the most disadvantaged members of our population.
CHUCK TODD:
Okay. The question I had though at the beginning was what does it mean when he's saying that? Does that mean we expect every adult to be vaccinated, say, two weeks -- by two weeks into June?
JEFFREY ZIENTS:
Well, the first step -- The first step is to have the supply.
CHUCK TODD:
Yeah.
JEFFREY ZIENTS:
The first step is to have the supply. We've made a lot of progress, as I just articulated. There's a long road ahead and we need to continue to accelerate the pace of shots per day. And the American Rescue Plan, which is now over to the House, has the funding necessary to continue to accelerate it. So our goal is to get as many Americans, all Americans, vaccinated as efficiently and as fast as possible. But I want to emphasize equity and fairness is as important as speed and efficiency.
CHUCK TODD:
Okay. I understand. It sounds like you're hesitant to put a, put a hard date on that, of when that comes. Let me ask you about something that happened with the mayor of Detroit. He indicated that he turned down -- he appeared to turn down some Johnson & Johnson vaccine. And he noted that the efficacy rate of the Johnson & Johnson was not as good as the Moderna and Pfizer vaccines. And he seemed to say, "Hey, I want the best for my city." I know he has an op-ed this morning in The Detroit Free Press essentially saying he misspoke. How much of a problem is this? And are you concerned that people will be hesitant to take the Johnson & Johnson vaccine?
JEFFREY ZIENTS:
Let me start with the FDA, the CDC, Dr. Fauci, all have said the same thing, which is we now have three safe and very effective vaccines. And Americans should take the first vaccine that they are offered. At the same time, we are working across all of our federal channels -- the pharmacies, the community health centers, the community vaccination centers -- and with the state governors to ensure that there's even distribution of all three vaccines across all of those channels. I spoke to Mayor Duggan yesterday. And he emphasized just what you just said, Chuck, that it was a miscommunication. That he had, at the time, enough Moderna and Pfizer vaccine for the following period of time, a week or so. And he looks forward to deploying the J&J vaccine in the next week or two so that Detroiters have access to all three effective and safe vaccines.
CHUCK TODD:
Is there going to be -- what is your understanding of Johnson & Johnson and a second shot? Are they working on one? And is that something we should expect in the next six months?
JEFFREY ZIENTS:
Right now, the FDA has approved Johnson & Johnson and the CDC has recommended Johnson & Johnson as a one-dose vaccine. There is a clinical trial that looks at a second dose. And we'll have to see the results of that clinical trial. Right now, FDA has approved and CDC recommends Johnson & Johnson as a one-dose vaccine.
CHUCK TODD:
I want to bring up vaccine equity. You brought it up and you said you guys are determined to do this in an equitable way. But just right here, Jeff, in our -- in the city where we live, here in Washington, D.C., we are seeing this problem between -- and I'm going local here -- Wards 3 versus Ward 8. And Ward 3 is getting the most vaccinations. Ward 8 has the most deaths. And they're not getting the most vaccinations. They look like they're falling behind. It also happens to be the most African American community in Ward 8, and they're not getting enough vaccine. Why is that? And are you going to intervene? I mean, this is Washington, D.C. This is the backyard.
JEFFREY ZIENTS:
Yeah. Chuck, Chuck, unfortunately, what you're showing in Washington, D.C. exists in too many parts of the country, and that is unacceptable. Communities of color have been hit disproportionately hard by this disease, suffering death rates twice the average. So it's really, really important that when we come to vaccine distribution, that we do it in a fair and equitable way. The situation that you're describing is not fair and equitable. We need to bring vaccines to people where they are, which is why community health centers are so important. They serve over 30 million Americans. Two-thirds of those that use community health centers live below the poverty line. Sixty percent come from communities of color. That's why the president established a program to send vaccines directly to community health centers. We're using mobile units to reach people where they are. And the pharmacy program is set up in a way where the pharmacies are focused on areas that are disadvantaged, the most hard hit. So the new federal programs are all established and run with equity first and foremost in mind. We are holding states and governors accountable for fair and equitable distribution of the vaccine.
CHUCK TODD:
But the results haven't been good. And we're talking in cities that, you know, you would assume there wouldn't be these kind of political problems with it. It's Chicago, it's Washington, D.C. Is this a -- is this because of access to computers? Has this been the issue?
JEFFREY ZIENTS:
Well, there has been difficulty with access for too many Americans, people of color and other Americans. And we need to make that better. And the first thing to do is to increase supply so there is access to the vaccine. But at the same time, you're right. Too many websites are confusing and don't work. There are not enough call centers or other ways to schedule a vaccine. We're working with states to make that situation better. Many governors and states have improved their access. But we need equal access across the board. We need to fix this problem. We need to hold ourselves accountable to both speed and efficiency, but fairness and equity in the distribution of the vaccine.
CHUCK TODD:
All right. Well, I think that's what a lot of folks will be doing. Jeff Zients, the White House Coronavirus Response Coordinator, thank you for coming on and sharing the administration's perspective. I appreciate it.
JEFFREY ZIENTS:
Chuck, can I just say one thing before we break?
CHUCK TODD:
Yes, sir.
JEFFREY ZIENTS:
We're on a path. We're on a path. We need to make sure that we do not let down our guard. People do need to meet the president's challenge of masking up. People do need to take the vaccine when it's their turn. We need to stay on this path and beat this pandemic.
CHUCK TODD:
All right. Jeff Zients, those are words that I think everybody can agree to. Thanks very much. And joining me now for an epidemiology perspective is Dr. Michael Osterholm. He is the director for the Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy at the University of Minnesota. Dr. Osterholm, you and I were talking earlier this week and we are -- it does feel as if we are at a fork in the road here. The vaccines are there, the supply is coming. We're so close. We are seeing this lifting of restrictions. You're concerned about these variants coupled with spring break. How vulnerable are we?
DR. MICHAEL OSTERHOLM:
Well, good morning, Chuck. And let me just say, we are in the eye of the hurricane right now. It appears that things are going very well. You can see blue skies. We've been through a terrible, terrible year. But what we know is about to come upon us is the situation with this B117 variant, a virus that originated in the United Kingdom that today is wreaking havoc in parts of Europe, 27 countries seeing significant cases with this, ten really hitting hard. Many of these countries have been on lockdown now for two months just to try to control this virus. Last time I was on your show four weeks ago, the B117 variants made up about 1-4% of the viruses we were seeing in communities across the country. Today, it's up to 30-40%. And what we've seen in Europe, when we hit that 50% mark, you see cases surge. So right now, we do have to keep America as safe as we can from this virus by not letting up on any of the public health measures we've taken. And we need to get people vaccinated as quickly as we can.
CHUCK TODD:
All right. Vaccinations are moving pretty quickly. You heard that we got 2.9 million shots in yesterday. I'm curious, this surge that you're worried about have, have we at least prepared ourselves for less death this time because of our vaccine strategy? Or are we just in a race that we'll lose in this moment?
DR. MICHAEL OSTERHOLM:
Well, I have to congratulate this administration for what they've done to move forward on the vaccine issue. I think they have brought as much oversight, support and vision as any organ -- any administration could with vaccine. But we also have to tell the story of what is still ahead of us. And at 2.9 to 3 million doses of vaccine a day over the next six to 14 weeks when this surge is likely to happen, is not going to really take care of the problem at all. Right now, over half of our seniors in this country either have not been vaccinated or have just started their first dose. That means that where 80% of the deaths typically occur, which is in that age group, they are highly vulnerable going into the next four to six weeks. Now, I have to tell you, I'm very grateful that we've vaccinated the 1.4 million people in long-term care facilities. But we still have a lot of high risk people out there that, when this surge comes, basically they're going to be highly vulnerable. The other thing we see right now is every governor wants to open schools. And I understand that. As a grandfather of five children I -- grandchildren, I get it. But the problem is, if you look at Europe right now, the challenge we're seeing is a lot of transmission in schools with this new variant. In my home state of Minnesota, we just announced on Friday an outbreak of over 68 individuals in high school community-wide sports. So we're going to have some tough days ahead in the older population and in the younger population with this new variant virus.
CHUCK TODD:
We have not gotten any CDC guidance on what vaccinated people should do. Give some guidance to people that have been vaccinated right now. Wear your mask? Don't wear a mask? Where would you go in big groups? What guidance would you give people who have been vaccinated?
DR. MICHAEL OSTERHOLM:
We have to acknowledge that what is the public likely to do with any guidance that we give them? And if we just tell people that they've got to stay cocooned, that they've got to stay in their homes, that they've got to continue to wear their mask even though they're fully vaccinated, they're not going to do that. They're going to disregard the public health recommendation. So we have to get real. We have to say, "You know what? What does it mean? If I've not seen my grandchildren for the last year and I'm now vaccinated, my spouse is vaccinated, can I see those kids or not?" They're not likely to have a vaccine through next fall or next winter. We have to be practical. And I worry a little bit that we will basically stay with this idea that we've had all along, "Do this --”
CHUCK TODD:
Right.
DR. MICHAEL OSTERHOLM:
-- or else." And so I hope that the CDC guidance acknowledges that people are not going to do the extreme for staying masked for 2022.
CHUCK TODD:
Yeah.
DR. MICHAEL OSTERHOLM:
That's just not going to happen. So what can we provide them? Reasonable information that gives them the best case for protecting themselves. Like, you know what? You wouldn't catch me tonight in a crowded restaurant somewhere, even with my, you know, vaccination. I think that's what we have to concentrate on. And let them do the ---
CHUCK TODD:
Gotcha.
DR. MICHAEL OSTERHOLM:
-- kinds of things --
CHUCK TODD:
Alright.
DR. MICHAEL OSTERHOLM:
-- that are really much safer.
CHUCK TODD:
Dr. Michael Osterholm, it's always good to have your expertise on the show. Really appreciate it. Thanks for coming.
DR. MICHAEL OSTERHOLM:
Thank you.
CHUCK TODD:
When we come back, the Covid Relief Bill. Talk to Democratic Senator Joe Manchin, who sought to reduce some of the benefits in the package. And Senator John Barrasso who, along with every other Republican, voted no on the bill. Stay with us.
CHUCK TODD:
Welcome back. Perhaps no Senate Democrat wields more power right now than Joe Manchin of West Virginia. It was Manchin, a Democrat reelected in an overwhelmingly pro-Trump state, who led the effort to narrow benefits and remove a minimum wage increase from the Covid relief bill. And he opposes the majority of his fellow Senate Democrats, who want to get rid of the filibuster. In a moment, I'll talk to the number three Republican in the Senate, John Barrasso. Right now, I'm joined by Mr. 50 himself, Joe Manchin. Senator Manchin, welcome back to Meet the Press. And I want to get into the, the bit of drama before this bill passed. I think for most Americans, they might have missed it. But expla -- what were you fighting for? Why was -- this almost derailed the bill. Why was this the hill to die on for you?
SEN. JOE MANCHIN:
Well, there was never a hill to die on, Chuck. Nobody wants to die. But first, let me just say thank you for having me. It's always great to be with you. And next of all, what had happened is, there was a provision added -- I guess they worked on it the night before. I had no idea. I thought we were going in one direction, and they came out in another direction. These things happen when such a mammoth piece of legislation is put together. So, I said, "That's not something I can agree with. I don't think it's where we're going, it's what we're needing to put this package together in a very responsible way." So we started talking and all of a sudden everything came to a halt because they realized I would not vote for the procedure or the process that was in place at that time. But there's never a hill to die on. We can fix everything if we just talk to each other and negotiate. That's what it's about.
CHUCK TODD:
Well --
SEN. JOE MANCHIN:
And that's what we did. It took a little longer than necessary, but we got it done.
CHUCK TODD:
President Biden even got involved. I know that you two talked. What was that conversation? Did he -- did you get a promise out of him?
SEN. JOE MANCHIN:
No, I've never done that. I don't ask for this or that, for that. Yeah, I just don't trade off that way. There's no need to. I've always said this: if my country does well, my state of West Virginia, my beautiful state of West Virginia will do well, Chuck. And we try to do that. So, I've always had great conversations. I have the utmost admiration for President Biden. He's been my friend, he's our president. I want him to succeed, and I'm doing everything I can. I'm just trying to bring balance, just some balance. The responsible middle, we're still there. We're still there.
CHUCK TODD:
So, how come you couldn't get two people that you normally can work with -- Susan Collins and Lisa Murkowski -- to vote for this bill? Three of you usually see relief bills like this -- you guys usually see things the same.
SEN. JOE MANCHIN:
Well, let me say this. A lot of the things that I supported, and a lot of the changes I was asking for and a lot of the changes in this bill came because of our, our, our gatherings and us working together. The Democrats and Republicans talking. We've been working together for over a month on this. And an awful lot of the things that I was able to -- because of the position I'm in right now -- was able to bring that forward and what they believe in too. We did a -- this piece of legislation has far reaching, I think, assets for the American public. We're helping everybody. There's no one missed in this piece of legislation, and I'm proud of it. Also, Chuck, on this legislation, this is the first time that we were able to put absolute direct targets on what needed to be fixed in America. Every city in America, every county in America, every municipality, every incorporated town is going to have a chance to control their own destiny because we put infrastructure in this, also. In the states -- in the states, municipals and cities. It's going to be wonderful. They can fix sewers.
CHUCK TODD:
You know --
SEN. JOE MANCHIN:
They can fix water projects. Everything.
CHUCK TODD:
Let me ask you this. I know where you stand on the filibuster itself. But as you know, these election reform proposals that the House has passed -- and you know, Chuck Schumer is very in favor of them, and it's got, a lot, of sort of Democratic base support here. Do you believe in the idea of a carve-out where this, where this -- where you could pass election-related bills, just like you do with budget reconciliation. With 50 votes rather than 60? Are you open to a concept like that?
SEN. JOE MANCHIN:
Let me, let me give you this concept, Chuck. If -- what you saw happen with that 50 votes swing and one vote no matter who it may be can make a big difference in, in a tied Senate, can you imagine doing day-to-day operations this way? Can you imagine not having to sit down, where there's no reason for you to sit down with your colleagues on both sides and have their input? The Senate is the most unique body of government in the world -- governing body in the world. It's deliberate. It's basically designed, Chuck, to make sure the minority has input. That's exactly our founding fathers. And now if you want to make it a little bit more painful, make him stand there and talk, I'm willing to look at any way we can. But I'm not willing to take away the involvement of the minority. I've been in the minority. I've been in the majority. And I can tell you the respect I have on both sides when I've been there should be “I’ve got something to say, listen to me,” and I want that to happen.
CHUCK TODD:
Well, Senator, the filibuster was never an idea of the founding fathers. That is a Senate rule that was created by senators later, in fairness. It's not a founding father idea. Let me ask you this.
SEN. JOE MANCHIN:
No, no. But hey, Chuck --
CHUCK TODD:
You didn't directly answer my question about would you be willing to go a reconciliation route for election-only bills like H.R. 1?
SEN. JOE MANCHIN:
Let me say this: I'm not willing to go into reconciliation until we at least get bipartisanship or get working together or allow the Senate to do its job. Just by assuming that, "Hey, they'll never work with us. That's the other side. This is tribal. Republicans will never agree on anything" or "Democrats will never agree." I don't subscribe to that. I don't buy into that. There's no need for us to go to reconciliation until the other process has failed. That means the normal process of a committee, a hearing, amendments, Chuck. And that's where I am.
CHUCK TODD:
Well that sounds like, if the Republicans -- then what you're saying is if Republicans continue to be unified in opposition and don't have an open mind, then you may change your mind?
SEN. JOE MANCHIN:
Well, I'm not going to change my mind on the filibuster. I’ll change my mind if we need to go to a -- to a reconciliation --
CHUCK TODD:
Gotcha.
SEN. JOE MANCHIN:
-- to where we have to get something done. Once I know they have process into it. But I'm not going to go there until my Republican friends have the ability to have their say, also. And I'm hoping they'll get involved to the point to where we have 10 of them that will work with 50 of us, or 15 of them that will work with 45 of us. However, you know, we, I just -- whatever it takes the majority -- and it takes 60 when we are moving it through normal process -- I’m for that. You said something about the founding fathers. Why did, why did Washington have bicameral? Why’d he want two bodies? One was supposed to be the cooling saucer, as you will. It takes deliberation, it takes listening to the minority, to make sure that the majority is getting it right.
CHUCK TODD:
Senator Manchin, Democrat from West Virginia, really appreciate having you on, sir. Thanks for sharing your perspective with us.
SEN. JOE MANCHIN:
Chuck, it's always good to be with you. Thank you. And let’s do more of this.
CHUCK TODD:
You've got it, sir. Thank you.
SEN. JOE MANCHIN:
Okay.
CHUCK TODD:
And joining me now is Senator John Barrasso of Wyoming. He's, of course, the chair of the Senate Republican Conference. Senator Barrasso, welcome back to Meet the Press. And before I get into politics, I always like, when I have you on, you're a medical doctor as well. And I've got to ask you. I want you to respond to something Governor Jim Justice said. We had it a little bit earlier in the show, but let me play it again for our viewers and for your ears. Take a listen.
[BEGIN TAPE]
GOV. JIM JUSTICE:
I don't know, really, what the big rush to get rid of the mask is because these masks have saved a lot, a lot of lives.
[END TAPE]
CHUCK TODD:
Now, your home state, you guys aren't getting rid of it yet. And so I know that there’s, quite a few have thought, "Hey, you can open business and have a mask mandate." Why is that so difficult, do you think, for some, for some members of your party, particularly the governor of Texas? That -- "Hey, let's open up, but let's wear a mask"?
SEN. JOHN BARRASSO:
Well, first, Chuck, as a doctor, I will tell you I am very optimistic about where we are with Operation Warp Speed. Three vaccines, that we're vaccinating two million people a day, everybody vaccinated by May. This is dramatic. It is very, very impressive from a medical standpoint. Also, from a medical standpoint, we know these lockdowns have been terrible for people all around the country in terms of depression, suicide. We need the country open. We need kids back in school every day with a mask, without a mask. We know how to stay safe. We know what we need to do: get vaccinated. It's time to get America fully opened again.
CHUCK TODD:
Are you worried though, when you get rid of a mask mandate, that it sends the wrong message? You know, it's one thing to open up. And I get, open up businesses, just wear a mask. That if you tell people, "Don't wear a mask," then they're not going to take any precautions?
SEN. JOHN BARRASSO:
Well, people need to take precautions. I have my mask with me right here. I'm going to continue to wear a mask. And I think people will use good judgment to do so.
CHUCK TODD:
All right. Let's talk about the Covid relief bill. Obviously, your party was in unified opposition. But according to polling, anywhere from 30-40% of Republicans, like many of the proposals in this bill, have been in favor of it. That doesn't seem to match unified opposition. And I understand that you want unity there. But are you worried that you're looking out of touch with some of your voters?
SEN. JOHN BARRASSO:
No. When people find out what's in this bill, they're going to lose a lot of any enthusiasm they may have for it right now because this was not really about coronavirus in terms of the spending. This was a liberal wish list of liberal spending just basically filled with pork. It didn't need to be this way. We've passed five bipartisan coronavirus relief bills already. Every Republican voted against it, but also some Democrats voted against it. Joe Biden in his inaugural address said, "I want to work together with you. We can work together." 10 Republicans went to the White House and said, "All right, let's work together." Instead, the White House chief of staff said, "This is the most progressive, the most progressive piece of domestic legislation in a generation." This was never about getting people back to work or kids back to school or the disease behind us. That's where it should've been focused.
CHUCK TODD:
I want to be curious about one thing on checks. In fact, the former president, Donald Trump, argued this week that if Senate Republicans had gone ahead and agreed to make bigger stimulus checks, there would be a Republican Senate. You wouldn't have lost those Georgia Senate seats. Do you agree with him?
SEN. JOHN BARRASSO:
You know, I voted for the $600 checks that were in the bill the President Trump approved right around Christmastime. The issue is --
CHUCK TODD:
You don't wish they were higher?
SEN. JOHN BARRASSO:
-- this bill that we just passed.
CHUCK TODD:
You don't wish they were higher --
SEN. JOHN BARRASSO:
This check --
CHUCK TODD:
-- at the time?
SEN. JOHN BARRASSO:
-- right now. Well, not to the level that people are getting them now. This, with this bill, they're going to people in prison, they're going to people who are illegal immigrants, they're going to people who make much more money than you would expect people to actually need relief or help at this point. So I think this is a mistake, what's happening in the bill that just has passed the Senate.
CHUCK TODD:
Let me talk about what could come next. President Biden is reportedly going to turn to infrastructure. There is a lot -- we don't have a lot of detail. And if he wants to get bipartisan support, we know there's generally bipartisan agreement for more investment in our infrastructure. What are the deal-breakers you would tell him he should avoid as he puts together a proposal that, that attempts to have bipartisan support?
SEN. JOHN BARRASSO:
Well, if he's truly interested in bipartisan support, as he said he was on the coronavirus relief, and then he ignored that, what we need to do is take a look at the bill that passed the Senate Environment and Public Works Committee on highways; infrastructure last Congress. I was chair of that committee, worked closely with Tom Carper, the Democrat. It passed unanimously. Bernie Sanders voted for it. I talked to Mayor Pete, now Secretary of Transportation, Pete Buttigieg, just the other day about it. When it passed through our committee, we then had it in the House. They threw it out, a bipartisan supported bill, and replaced it with the Green New Deal, which raises energy costs on people, puts all kinds of mandates in place, and I think it would be very bad for the economy. So if they want to work with us, take up what Bernie Sanders and John Barrasso agreed to last year in the Environment and Public Works Committee. That is the blueprint for infrastructure.
CHUCK TODD:
Two quick campaign related questions for you. Number one, Lisa Murkowski. Donald Trump said he doesn't support her reelection. Do you? And Liz Cheney, do you support her reelection?
SEN. JOHN BARRASSO:
Well, a couple of things. One is President Trump has already endorsed a number of senators who are running again for reelection. That is helpful. The president's endorsement matters. In terms of Alaska, I want to always make sure we nominate somebody who can win in November. Lisa Murkowski knows Alaska better than anybody. And she's an incredible fighter for American energy. She hasn't made an announcement of if she's even going to run again. If she does, I'm going to support her. With regard to Liz Cheney in Wyoming, we work closely together, fighting the Biden administration. I mean, this is an administration which policies on energy are devastating Wyoming and our economy, the Rocky Mountain West. Gas prices are up $0.60 a gallon already since the beginning of the year. We need to work together every day. So I support her. I disagree with her completely on the issue of impeachment. She voted one way, I voted the other.
CHUCK TODD:
But you do support her reelection. Okay. Senator John Barrasso, Republican from Wyoming, number three in the Senate. And the phrase, "When Bernie Sanders and John Barrasso agree on something," I wonder if that is something that will have, pay some dividends down the road. Thank you for coming on and sharing your views, sir.
SEN. JOHN BARRASSO:
Thanks, Chuck.
CHUCK TODD:
When we come back, passing Covid relief, that was the easy part for Democrats. Ending the filibuster, raising the minimum wage, those are going to be much tougher fights. The panel is next.
CHUCK TODD:
Welcome back. The panel is with us. Yamiche Alcindor, White House correspondent for PBS News Hour; former Homeland Security Secretary Jeh Johnson; Danielle Pletka of the American Enterprise Institute; and NBC News Senior Political Reporter Jonathan Allen. He's the coauthor of the new book Lucky: How Joe Biden Barely Won the Presidency. Welcome all. Yamiche, let me start with this. They got the Covid Relief Bill. Is this the beginning of a huge momentum of legislation? Or are we going to look back at the end of the year and say, "Well, he got his one big one, but everything else is stalled"?
YAMICHE ALCINDOR:
Well, it is true that the bottom line is that President Biden was able to push through and is about to get this $1.9 trillion Covid relief bill, but it took so much. Just look at Joe Manchin to see that he's someone who's telling you he wants to be the responsible middle, saying that he wants to be balanced. Those aren't the words that the Democratic base wants to hear, especially when they think of bigger bills and more ambitious issues like immigration and infrastructure. This bill on Covid is happening while one in three people in America know someone who died of Covid. But Senator Barrasso was very clear that he's very open to saying that this was a mistake still and that Republicans are not going to be the party that's going to say, "Yes, we want to be bipartisan and we want to try to sit down and work with this president and do some things that are on the Democratic agenda." So I think there is really a sense that, if this was the easy bill, this was the bill where the pandemic was top of mind for so many Americans, it just seems like things are just going to get even harder when you look at infrastructure. And especially when you look at immigration, an issue that Republicans have seized on.
CHUCK TODD:
Yeah, I want to get to immigration. Jon Allen, it's interesting. Throughout the campaign, in the book you cover that he was the guy that was talking about being able to restore some normalcy to Washington. Look, he didn't get the bipartisanship on this bill. How hard do you expect a President Biden to fight for bipartisanship?
JONATHAN ALLEN:
I think President Biden will fight for bipartisanship where he can find it. But, you know, there's an unevenness in what we've seen with the Covid relief bill. Last year, Republicans wrote Covid relief bills with a Republican flavor and you saw the Democrats vote for them. Now with Democrats in the majority, they wrote a Democratic flavored relief bill. And none of the Republicans voted for it, even after the Democrats got rid of things like minimum wage that their progressive base were arguing for.
CHUCK TODD:
Danielle Pletka, is there a -- you know, this is the same strategy Republicans picked in '09, right? Basically, stay together, stay unified. But the economy was still getting worse in '09. This economy's going to get better. And while there may be a debate, did it help boost the economy or not, if the economy's getting better, this bill's going to look good in the rear-view mirror. Are Republicans risking something here?
DANIELLE PLETKA:
I don't think Republicans are risking something. Look, you know, there's a question that we don't want to answer, that we don't want to talk about. You mentioned the number $6 trillion. Not $6 billion, not $60 billion, not $600 billion, $6 trillion that has been spent on this. When we say the economy's going to get better, what we are going to be doing is digging ourselves out of a hole. And the real question for I think a lot of people in the United States is how, in the end, are we going to pay for this? It's not going to be easy. And Congress doesn't seem to want to take on that question at all.
CHUCK TODD:
It's a fair point and I think there are even some philosophical splits now on the right on some of this spending stuff. But Jeh Johnson, there's going to be a heated debate amongst Democrats about getting rid of this filibuster or going to different reconciliation routes to maybe create a new carve-out for election bills. I know you think there should be a little more caution on this. Why?
JEH JOHNSON:
Chuck, I would urge my Democratic friends and colleagues to take the long view on this. My name was actually on the Hill in 2013 for Secretary of Homeland Security when Harry Reid changed the rule to go to 50 votes to get us confirmed. I actually believe we probably could've fought our way to 60 because I ultimately got 78. But that change led to the change for the Supreme Court, which is how Donald Trump was able to remake the federal judiciary during his four years and how he was able to replace Ruth Bader Ginsburg just days before the election. And so whatever Democrats think they need to do for good government to achieve good democracy, Republicans will exploit with shameless impunity. And so I urge us to take the long view. This depends entirely on where you sit at the moment.
CHUCK TODD:
I want to pivot to immigration here. And Jeh, let me start with you. My inboxes have been flooded from Republicans who don't want to talk about the Covid relief bill anymore. They want to talk about the border. Former President Trump, Kevin McCarthy, Shelley Moore Capito are some examples here. This is where Republicans are going. Is the Biden administration ready? Is this DHS ready for what's coming at the border?
JEH JOHNSON:
Yes, I believe they are. Ali Mayorkas was my deputy secretary. He's experienced. I see an administration on this trying to do the right thing, trying to do the right thing in a humane way. The reality is that Americans want us to treat those who are here fairly, but they also want border security. Ultimately, the answer to this is what I know Biden believes in, which is dealing with the problem in Central America, through aid and assistance to eradicate the poverty and violence there.
CHUCK TODD:
Yamiche though, the politics of immigration have never gone well for Democrats recently. Are they ready for this?
YAMICHE ALCINDOR:
Only time will tell if Democrats are ready for this because you have a White House that is wanting to say that they've got a crisis at the border, but the numbers don't lie. You have a number of unaccompanied minors that are coming to the border, that are being held in facilities, that even progressive Democrats are pointing to and saying, "If that's what we call humane, there's a problem there." You also, of course, have a Democratic Conference that has been really stuck on the issue of immigration. Time and time again, they've tried to do this. They have this big bill now that's sitting in the Senate -- sitting in Congress. It seems as though it's going to have to be broken up. So there are just I think a lot of different unanswered questions on this. And there's a real big problem at the border that's continuing to brew. And this White House I think is going to really have to contend with that.
CHUCK TODD:
And it's a Republican Party that, while they're not united on a lot of things, on this issue, they are. And in some ways, they're going to keep rallying around it probably to avoid their other divisive issues. All right, let me pause here. When we come back, we've heard plenty of optimistic talk about a coming economic boom. There's a lot more uncertainty about which jobs will come back and which are gone forever That's next.
CHUCK TODD:
Welcome back. Data Download time. Even as the economy will begin to recover from a year in lockdown, some things may never be the same. Beginning in March of last year, 31% of those 18 or older found themselves working from home due to the Covid outbreak. And half of those folks say they're gonna continue working from home after the pandemic ends. And guess what? Because this is largely a service industry recession, that's going to have a huge impact going forward. About 9.6 million fewer Americans were employed this January compared to a year ago, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics. And 8.7 million of those nearly 10 million were in the service industry. All those remote workers who aren't returning to their offices, they're going to have a lasting impact on local businesses, whether in cities or in suburbs, meaning even after everyone's arm is poked, it's going to take some time before we understand what the new economic normal really looks like. Those in the service economy are going to be hurting the most. When we come back, he was America's governor for some at the start of this pandemic. But now, there are real questions about Andrew Cuomo's political survival. That's next.
CHUCK TODD:
Welcome back. It's been a rough week for Andrew Cuomo. Here he was on Wednesday with his first set of apologies. Take a listen.
[BEGIN TAPE]
GOV. ANDREW CUOMO:
I now understand that I acted in a way that made people feel uncomfortable. It was unintentional. And I truly and deeply apologize for it. I never touched anyone inappropriately.
[END TAPE]
CHUCK TODD:
And Dany Pletka, here's Charlotte Bennett in an interview with Norah O'Donnell.
[BEGIN TAPE]
CHARLOTTE BENNETT:
I thought, "He's trying to sleep with me. The governor's trying to sleep with me. And I'm deeply uncomfortable, and I have to get out of this room as soon as possible."
[END TAPE]
CHUCK TODD:
So to the normal rules of politics here, Dany, this would seem it's not a matter of if, but when, he resigns. But this is Andrew Cuomo.
DANIELLE PLETKA:
Look, you know, these, these women coming forward should, should be a wake-up call for, for everybody. I've never understood why Andrew Cuomo was viewed as the emperor of New York after he sent, you know, thousands of elderly people to their deaths last year in nursing homes. Now, the chickens are coming home to roost, not only on that, but on the fact that he's another man who believed that he should have impunity because of who he is in the world of politics. It's utterly disgusting.
CHUCK TODD:
Jon Allen, in your book you chronicle, I mean, we were at a point where there was all sorts of Andrew Cuomo rumors du jour in the summer of '20. Quite the fall.
JONATHAN ALLEN:
Yeah, absolutely. And Andrew Cuomo was looked at as somebody who might be moving up. What we write about in the book is him taping a message for the Democratic Convention really angering the Biden people because it was a five minute message, of which the last eight seconds or so were an endorsement of Joe Biden. The rest of it was an endorsement of, of Governor Cuomo for a future presidential run. He was asked to re-cut the video and refused to do it. And I think this ties into the sort of attitude of him being, you know, acting, as Dany said, with impunity.
CHUCK TODD:
Yamiche, I was just going to say it's stories like that, there's a reason Andrew Cuomo doesn't have a lot of defenders today. Not just because of his behavior, but he's, he’s not been an easy person to deal with over the years.
YAMICHE ALCINDOR:
That's right. And part of the reason why Andrew Cuomo was in some ways rising in the summer of '20 was because of that brash attitude, that, that kind of attitude where he felt like he could be the, the -- in charge. And you could tell that he was someone who would be tough. But that same style is also what aides, and more and more of them are coming out, saying created a toxic work environment. And I think it's gonna be harder and harder for Democrats to either be silent or defend him as more and more of these aides come out. And now White House sources that I've just been talking to, they continue to stick to the fact that they want to see an investigation happen. But again, let's remember that it was Vice President Harris and Senator Gillibrand and a number of other women in the Democratic Caucus that said the Democrats had to be on a higher moral ground. So I just think it's going to be even harder as the days go on.
CHUCK TODD:
Yeah. Jeh Johnson, the Al Franken resignation lingers in this one, and the calls for it and how fast it was among Democrats, and how slow it looks like the calls are right now.
JEH JOHNSON:
I'll just make a po -- comment about New York politics. The George Washington Bridge is behind me here. There are some iconic politicians from New York with their names on bridges who overreached in trying to get a fourth term. Ed Koch was defeated for a fourth term by David Dinkins in the primary. And, of course, Andrew's father Mario was defeated in an effort at a fourth term by a little known politician named George Pataki, State Senate.
CHUCK TODD:
Dany, are we going to get --
JEH JOHNSON:
So I think Andrew needs to think about that.
CHUCK TODD:
Yeah. Dany, Dany Pletka, are we going to get to a point where it does feel as if political party seems to matter in how fast you call for a resignation?
DANIELLE PLETKA:
Oh, there's no question about that. We all remember what Justice Kavanaugh went through. You know, people believe in due process for members of their own party. They don't believe in due process for members of the other party. And this really shouldn't be a partisan issue. What we should want for everybody is absolutely due process, absolutely investigate the claims, make sure they're credible. But no tolerance, zero tolerance for sex pests and pigs like these.
CHUCK TODD:
Well, that is one way to sort of end that segment there. I think there is universal agreement that we are all tired of seeing this bad behavior from people that are supposed to be role models. Anyway, thank you, panel. That's all we have for today. Thank you for watching. We'll be back next week because if it's Sunday, it's Meet the Press.