KRISTEN WELKER:
This Sunday: closing in. Israel and Hamas are closing in on a deal to release hostages in exchange for a pause in fighting.
PRES. JOE BIDEN:
I'm doing everything in my power to get you out.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Is a deal within reach? I’ll talk to Deputy National Security Adviser Jon Finer. Plus, blaming Biden. Our new NBC News poll finds voters are unhappy with President Biden and his handling of the Israel-Hamas war. His approval rating at a new low and he’s trailing former President Donald Trump.
PRES. JOE BIDEN:
I acknowledge there’s a disconnect between the numbers and how people feel about their place in the world right now. We still have work to do.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Why is the president struggling even with members of his own party? And, spoiler alert. Senator Joe Manchin tells me he’s considering a third-party run in 2024
KRISTEN WELKER:
Are you considering running for president?
SEN. JOE MANCHIN:
I will do anything I can to help my country.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Is that a yes?
SEN. JOE MANCHIN:
And, you're saying, "does that mean you would consider it?" Absolutely. Every American should consider it if they're in a position to help save the country. I think we're on the wrong course.
KRISTEN WELKER:
My guests this morning: Republican presidential candidate and former New Jersey Governor Chris Christie and Democratic Senator Richard Blumenthal of Connecticut. Joining me for insight and analysis are: NBC News Capitol Hill Correspondent Ryan Nobles, New York Times Pentagon Correspondent Helene Cooper, former Republican Congressman Carlos Curbelo and former Democratic Congresswoman Stephanie Murphy. Welcome to Sunday. It’s Meet the Press.
ANNOUNCER:
From NBC News in Washington, the longest-running show in television history, this is Meet the Press with Kristen Welker.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Good Sunday morning. NBC News has learned that U.S, Israeli and Hamas negotiators are closing in on a deal to release some of the nearly 240 hostages held in Gaza in exchange for a pause in fighting. But these sources caution nothing has been finalized yet. The outline of a deal has been put together during weeks of talks in Doha, Qatar. One senior Israeli official tells NBC News: “as the military pressure increases, the chances of a release of hostages grows because Hamas is desperate for a cease-fire.” Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is also under pressure. Families of the hostages have been on a five-day march from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem, and are fiercely criticizing the prime minister for not doing more to secure their release. On Saturday, Netanyahu emphasized that no deal is done.
[START TAPE]
BENJAMIN NETANYAHU [TRANSLATED]:
Regarding the hostages, there are a lot of unfounded rumors, a lot of incorrect publications. I would like to clarify at this very moment, there wasn’t a deal. But I would like to promise you that when we do have something to say, we will report on that.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
And in a Washington Post Op-Ed, President Biden wrote: “as long as Hamas clings to its ideology of destruction, a cease-fire is not peace." But at a press conference earlier this week the president sounded more optimistic.
[START TAPE]
PRES. JOE BIDEN:
Look, I have been deeply involved in moving on the hostage negotiation. And I don't want to get ahead of myself here because I don't know what's happened in the last four hours, but I have gotten great cooperation from Qataris.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
Joining me now is Deputy National Security Advisor Jon Finer. Jon, welcome back to Meet The Press.
JON FINER:
Thanks very much for having me.
KRISTEN WELKER:
So, Jon, let's delve into the details of this breaking news. NBC News has confirmed, based on conversations with two sources who are familiar with the negotiations, that they are closing in on a potential deal to release some of the hostages in exchange for a pause in the fighting. How close are they to a deal? What can you tell us?
JON FINER:
Well, what I can say at this point is that some of the out – outstanding areas of disagreement in a very complicated, very sensitive negotiation have been narrowed, that I believe we are closer than we have been in quite some time, maybe closer than we have been since the beginning of this process to getting this deal done. And we are following this minute by minute, hour by hour and have been for a number of weeks up to and including the president, for whom this is a major priority, as you just heard. But at this point we really need to adhere to the mantra that nothing is agreed until everything is agreed. You know, sensitive negotiations like this can fall apart at the last minute. So we're not going to outline all the details of what is still being discussed. We believe that this needs to get done, that people are being held in unconscionable conditions inside Gaza including a number of Americans, and that they need to be allowed to come home. But until the deal is done and people actually start to move and depart, nothing is finalized. And so we're going to stay at this until we get to that point.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, let me ask you about what the Qatari prime minister said this morning. The prime minister said that the remaining challenges to the deal are, quote, "Very minor." Is that how you would characterize it? And can you tell us what those remaining sticking points are?
JON FINER:
So, look, what I would say is that the Qataris deserve a lot of credit for the role that they are playing in helping broker this, and they are as close to the negotiations as anyone. But I don't want to characterize it beyond what I've said already. We believe that they are closer than they have been. We believe that many of the outstanding areas of disagreement and of difference have been narrowed, if not closed off entirely. But there are still issues that remain, and until those issues are resolved there is no deal. But it is very much our objective to finish one and to get these people home. We think it is possible, but it's not done yet.
KRISTEN WELKER:
And in terms of the contours of the deal, can you give us some specificity? How many hostages are we talking about, Jon? Are we talking about 12? Are we talking about more than two dozen, dozens? How would you characterize the number of people?
JON FINER:
I guess what I would say is because I don't want to get into the issues that are under discussion among the parties, I'm not going to give a lot more detail, other than to say we are talking about considerably more than 12. But beyond that I want to see where this goes and don't want to say anything that would jeopardize actually completion of the deal, which is the most important thing.
KRISTEN WELKER:
And are all of the potential hostages who would be released women and children, Jon?
JON FINER:
Again, these are issues in the talks themselves. These are issues under active discussion among the parties. So I think it would not be helpful to the completion of the deal, which is our biggest priority, to start to lay those out in public. At the right time, and certainly if this deal is completed, we will have a lot more to say about how it all got done. But right now the priority's actually getting it done.
KRISTEN WELKER:
I know you can't say a whole lot. I have to keep trying. Are we talking about a prisoner exchange, Jon?
JON FINER:
Again, what you're talking about – what you're asking about quite understandably, it's your job, are topics that are at issue directly among the parties and in the talks. And so my laying those out in public we believe is not actually helpful to getting this deal across the line. But these are exactly the topics that are under discussion. I just want to leave it to them and give them the space and the privacy to be able to work this out and get the deal completed before we start detailing these things on television.
KRISTEN WELKER:
I understand. But just big picture, would it include what, frankly, so many people all around the globe have been calling for, which is a ceasefire? Are we talking about a ceasefire for several days? I believe five days has been reported.
JON FINER:
So without getting into the duration, one of the things that the parties themselves have said, including publicly, is that this could and would likely include an extended period of a pause in the fighting, a multiple-day period of a pause in the fighting. We think that would be both necessary to actually be able to execute the deal, because executing the deal would involve moving hostages around what is a very dangerous battlefield in Gaza. But it would also have the ancillary benefit, the important benefit of making it easier to distribute humanitarian assistance throughout Gaza because one of the big challenges has been it's hard to move basic materials around during the course of the fighting. It would enable us, we believe, to get more humanitarian assistance into Gaza. That's a priority under any circumstances, even if there is no hostage deal. But having a deal that causes a pause in the fighting would make it easier to get more in faster. So there are other benefits that are not necessarily directly related to the deal that we think would be caused if they can get this done.
KRISTEN WELKER:
And would there be Americans involved in this release, Jon? Can you say that?
JON FINER:
We know that there are Americans held. It is very important to the president and to all of us that Americans be included in any arrangement, and beyond that I'm not going to characterize who might or might not be coming out. But that is obviously the highest priority for the president. He has no higher obligation, obviously, than to the safety and security of Americans, including Americans who are in a terrible situation like those being held in Gaza.
KRISTEN WELKER:
We've obviously learned that two of the hostages, devastatingly, were found dead. Do you know the status of the remaining hostages? Are they alive, Jon?
JON FINER:
So one of the things that incredibly challenging about this situation is we don't have good fidelity – good information about the condition and the status of all of the hostages who are being held. Obviously, they're being held by Hamas. The United States government does not speak directly to Hamas. Hamas has indicated that there are a significant number of hostages that they are holding who are alive. Those are the hostages we are negotiating for. We cannot speak to exact numbers being held, exact numbers who are alive or who potentially tragically have been killed, like the two that you mentioned. But we know that the number is significant, and we know that it is for all these reasons very important that this happen as quickly as possible. The longer people are held in a dangerous situation the more likely it is that something tragic, beyond what's already happened to them, could happen, and we don't want to see that.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Yeah. Jon, just big picture here. As you know, more than 100 countries have called for a full and immediate ceasefire. Does the United States risk being out of step with the rest of the world on this issue?
JON FINER:
So leaving aside what other countries are saying or doing, I want to be clear about our position because I think it's been consistent and it's been where the president has been for quite some time and I think where he's going to remain, which is that right now Hamas, which perpetrated the horrific act that began this phase of the conflict on October 7th, not only is not calling for a ceasefire but they are saying they did this specifically to create a condition of perpetual war and that if given the opportunity to do it again they would do it again and again and again until Israel is eliminated. Under these circumstances we do not believe it is responsible to ask Israel to stop fighting Hamas. We believe the threat that occurred in a horrific way on October 7th remains and will remain until it has been sufficiently diminished by these military operations. That does not mean that we are not supportive of humanitarian pauses, including the type of pause for multiple days that could occur from the hostage deal but also including pauses in the fighting during the course of normal combat operations to allow humanitarian assistance to be distributed. It also doesn't mean that we do not make very clear that we value every single innocent life equally, Palestinian lives, Israeli lives. And we raise our concerns directly when there are operations that are taking place that we don't believe prioritize that.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, let me follow up with you on that point. The Qatari prime minister said today that Israel's actions at Al-Shifa Hospital are a quote, "crime." Does the White House stand by Israel's assessment that Hamas is headquartered underneath the hospital, and are you confident that Israel is following international law?
JON FINER:
We've been quite clear about our view of – of Shifa. Shifa is the largest hospital in Gaza. It is the most advanced hospital in Gaza. There are severely ill patients there. There are also a number of civilians who have gathered there to seek refuge during the course of the conflict, and those lives need to be protected. But we've been equally clear that our intelligence, U.S. intelligence information, not just Israeli intelligence information, suggests that Hamas has used Al-Shifa in an unconscionable way as a command and control facility for the planning of terrorist attacks and the execution of terrorist attacks and continues to do so. That does not, in our view, mean that Israel should conduct air strikes on the hospital or ground assaults on the hospital. We've been equally clear about that. But Hamas has put these people in severe jeopardy by the way in which it's conducting this war. So this is a microcosm of the real challenge associated with this entire conflict, and we've laid out – laid out our position. It's the same position I've just articulated.
KRISTEN WELKER:
And are you confident Israel is following international law, Jon? Just yes or no there.
JON FINER:
We are confident that it is our position that it needs to. When we have seen issues that are raised based on incidents on the ground, we raised them privately and directly with the government –
KRISTEN WELKER:
Jon, let me just –
JON FINER:
– of Israel and said also that we are not going to in real time –
KRISTEN WELKER:
– you’re saying, you’re saying –
JON FINER:
– play judge and jury on this question.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Yeah. Let me just follow up quickly. You said, "Israel needs to follow international law." Are you confident they are following international law?
JON FINER:
What I can say is it is not our position, certainly my position as a policymaker, to play real time judge and jury on the question of any particular incident. When we see things that concern us we raise them. We have done that during the course of this conflict. We will continue to do that. And again, just to restate it, it is our position that all countries, including Israel, including the United States, need to adhere to laws of armed conflict. Hamas, by the way, does not only not only hold itself to that standard, it openly boasts about its willingness and its reality of violating those standards. Those that is the challenge.
KRISTEN WELKER:
The president said in his Op-Ed that the United States is prepared to issue visa bans against extremists attacking civilians in the West Bank. How soon will the U.S. move to enact those bans? Is that a process that's already underway?
JON FINER:
So I think you've heard the president speak publicly, I think more so maybe than many of his, if not all of his, predecessors, his concerns about violence in the West Bank perpetrated by extremist settlers against innocent Palestinians. He's also raised those concerns very directly with Prime Minister Netanyahu, as we all have with our Israeli counterparts. You saw in the president's Op-Ed that the consequences for this sort of action could include visa bans against people who are associated with violence against innocent Palestinians in the West Bank. I suspect you'll see us lay out more details of that approach in the coming days, but – but this is serious. We think it's potentially hugely destabilizing. We think it could lead to greater instability in the West Bank, which is in nobody's interest. And so we are going to try to do our part to help the Palestinian authority and the Israeli Defense Forces keep a lid on – on what we believe is very troubling actions in the West Bank.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Jon, would the administration go even further and call for freezing settlements in the West Bank?
JON FINER:
I'm not going to get ahead of – of policy statements or decisions that have not been made or articulated at this point. We are – we are quite clear about our concerns. Our concerns are first and foremost related to violence that is being perpetrated. You know, a number of Palestinians in the West Bank who have been killed that is beyond any year since the Second Intifada. And we are going to try to take actions aimed at reducing that and hopefully eliminating it over time.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Jon Finer, thank you so much for your time and your insights this morning. We really appreciate it.
JON FINER:
Thanks again for having me.
KRISTEN WELKER:
As the war between Israel and Hamas rages on, it is having a transformative impact in our politics. We have a brand new NBC News poll out this morning, which shows the toll it is taking on the president. I'm joined now by National Political Correspondent Steve Kornacki to take us through the numbers. Steve, some real stunning highlights here in this poll.
STEVE KORNACKI:
Yeah, absolutely. And I think you're right to set it up that way. What's happening in the Middle East, it really does seem to be connecting with what's happening domestically in our politics. Let's start with the bottom line here. President Biden, what is his job approval rating? We measure it now at 40% with 57% disapproving. The significance? That is the lowest President Biden has ever measured in our poll, in terms of job approval. And just look at the sea change from the start of this year. Remember, early this year, Democrats coming off a strong 2022 midterm, he was almost even. Now he's 17 points underwater on this question.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Significant dip there, Steve.
STEVE KORNACKI:
It is. And actually, if you take a look here by party, I think it's significant for two reasons. One, Independents, obviously, more than two to one disapprove. You don't want to be there as an incumbent president. But I think equally significant, no surprise, 7% of Republicans approve of Joe Biden's job performance. But three times as many Democrats, 21%, that's more than one in five, say they disapprove. You need much more unified support in your own party if you're going to have a successful reelection campaign. And we mentioned the drop in that approval rating and the connection to the Middle East and here it is. On foreign policy 33% approve of Joe Biden's job performance. Just in September we asked the same question and it was 41/53.
KRISTEN WELKER:
These numbers surprise our own pollsters, Steve, with one saying he cannot remember a time when a foreign entanglement that didn't involve U.S. troops had the capacity to transform the electorate. And that's not the case in this poll.
STEVE KORNACKI:
No, and go even a step further on this one. I think this jumps out at you too: Overall, this is the handling of the Israel-Hamas war. And again, it kind of measures overall with Biden's foreign policy approval. But look at this: Among the oldest group of voters, 65-plus, there's a majority who approve of how Biden's handling this. That's plus 12. Look at the youngest group of voters. 20% approve, 70% disapprove. He is 50 points underwater with the youngest group of voters. That is a 62 point net swing between youngest and oldest on this topic of Israel-Hamas.
KRISTEN WELKER:
And it's a critical group of voters that he needs in order to win reelection, that's for sure.
STEVE KORNACKI:
Absolutely. So we're showing you Biden's problems here. And the question is, "Who will the Republicans nominate to oppose him?" And again, Donald Trump towering above the field here, two others in double digits. Compare this to our last poll and again, Trump is steady. The only growth you're really seeing, the only change, it's right there, Nikki Haley. She grew last time. She grew a little bit more this time into double digits.
KRISTEN WELKER:
And those numbers are fueled by non-Trump voters. I've been talking to sources inside Trump world who say they're not panicking because of that. But it's clear she's got some real momentum here, Steve.
STEVE KORNACKI:
She does and her challenge is just what you say. You look at voters who call themselves conservative, very conservative. They're very pro-Trump. They seem a little reluctant, a little resistant to her. She's got to break through not just with moderates and Independents. She's got to break through with core Republican voters who like Donald Trump if she wants to make this a real game with Trump. Okay, so if we are heading towards Trump-Biden, a rematch in 2024, how does that look in our polling right now? Here it is.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Wow.
STEVE KORNACKI:
Donald Trump we have at 46%, Biden, 44%.
KRISTEN WELKER:
And this is significant because this is the first time in the history of our poll that former President Trump beats President Biden, still within the margin of error but still significant.
STEVE KORNACKI:
Yeah, in 2019, 2020 when Trump was president he trailed all of them. This year he's trailed all of them in our poll. First time in more than a dozen polls we've seen a result like this. Some of the other ingredients that go into that, Biden has long had an advantage over Trump on likability. Look, at the start of this year 39% said they had a positive view of Biden, barely 30% of Trump. We've seen consistently a gap like this. Now, the gap is gone. 36% positive on both and actually Biden, one point more negative than Trump. That's been a significant advantage for Biden. Our poll says that advantage, at least for now, may be gone. And we talked about younger voters on foreign policy, and it's true on a host of other topics. Disaffected with Joe Biden, we have 46% for Trump, 42% for Biden among the youngest voters. The youngest voters in the 2020 election were Biden plus 26%. This could be a massive sea change. And if you take a look here too everybody sort of says, "Hey, I'm not too nuts about the possibility of this match-up," so we said, "Let's measure this one way," and here's how did it. Biden against an unnamed Republican, this is a just a referendum on Biden basically, and look at this: He goes from being a dogfight with Trump to being double digits –
KRISTEN WELKER:
Wow –
STEVE KORNACKI:
– behind. But then flip it around. Trump against an unnamed Democrat, Trump goes from leading against Biden to being down by six points against a Democrat.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Wow –
STEVE KORNACKI:
– a Democrat.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Just a fascinating look at the state of the race with just a little under a year to go. Steve Kornacki, great stuff. Thank you so –
STEVE KORNACKI:
Thank you –
KRISTEN WELKER:
– much for being here. When we come back Republican presidential candidate and former New Jersey Governor Chris Christie joins me next.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Welcome back. Last weekend former Governor Chris Christie became the first Republican presidential candidate to visit Israel since the war began, meeting with government officials and victims of the October 7th terrorist attacks as well as families of hostages being held in Gaza. And joining me now is former New Jersey Governor Chris Christie, a candidate for president. Welcome back to Meet the Press, Governor Christie.
FMR. GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE:
Thank you, Kristen.
KRISTEN WELKER:
So let's dive right in. I want to ask you about this deal that could be closing in. I just talked about it with Jon Finer. You just returned from Israel. You saw this conflict up close. I'm curious, would you support an agreement that included a several-day pause in exchange for some women and children hostages being released?
FMR. GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE:
Kristen, look, I spent, as you said, time in Israel last week and I met with the families of those who are being held hostage, and I have to tell you that, both for Israeli and American hostages that are being held, we need to get them home. The families gave me this, Kristen, this dog tag which says, "Bring them home now," and I really believe that it's time for the Israel government and the United States government to work out a fair deal to bring some of these hostages home. The – the – the torture these families are going through is extraordinary, and they need to get their family members home. There are some children who are hostage. There are some folks in their seventies that are being held hostage. Their – their health certainly must be at risk, especially for the older folks, and we need to get those people home, Kristen. So I would support a deal that – that was fair and equitable and one that gets these people home now.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Okay. Well, let me ask you, broadly speaking, about how Israel is carrying out the war. The UN human rights chief has said that Israel is, quote, "committing war crimes in Gaza." Based on what you learned on your trip, do you believe that Israel is following international law?
FMR. GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE:
Yes, I absolutely do think Israel is following international law, Kristen. And I will tell you, unlike a lot of other people who are expressing opinions about this, I was there and spoke to the leaders in Israel, spoke to the president of Israel, spoke to members of the Israeli Defense Forces. I was 600 yards from the Gaza border. I went everywhere in Israel to see what's going on, and they are doing everything they can to avoid civilian casualties. The problem is that Hamas is forcing these civilians to stay in places where Israel is warning them out of, dropping thousands of leaflets, sending hundreds of thousands of text messages to warn people away from areas before they're attacked. It is Hamas that's doing this. And let us not forget, for those who are advocating for a cease-fire, there was a cease-fire on October 6th, and it was Hamas that broke it on October 7th. And I will tell you, I saw the 43-minute video that's been put together by the Israeli government from raw footage from not only Israeli sources but from body cams and dash cams from the Hamas terrorists. What they did on October 7th was the greatest violation of international law and the greatest violation of humanity. And the worst part, Kristen, they did it with joy. We had one young man who called back to his family in Hamas in a cell phone call that was interrupted and said, "Mom, I just killed ten Jews with my bare hands. Your son is a hero." And his parents cheered him.
KRISTEN WELKER:
It is horrific. And as you know there is also an outcry for the civilians that have lost their lives in the wake of that, governor. Since October 7th more than 200 Palestinians have been killed in the West Bank. France has called settler violence a, quote, "policy of terror." If you were president, what would you do about the violence in the West Bank, and would you go so far as to call for a freeze in the settlements there?
FMR. GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE:
What I would do, Kristen, is do what friends do with friends. I would be speaking to Prime Minister Netanyahu and the other officials in the Israeli government and telling them that they have to get, you know, control over what's happening with settlers in the West Bank. What's going on in the West Bank is very different than what's going on in Gaza. Hamas is in Gaza. Hamas is doing what it is doing – has done in Gaza and continues to do –
KRISTEN WELKER:
But would you call for a freeze, governor? –
FMR. GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE:
– to put --
KRISTEN WELKER:
Would you call –
FMR. GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE:
– civilian lives at risk –
KRISTEN WELKER:
Would you call for a freeze? Would you call for a freeze in the settlements?
FMR. GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE:
No, I would not. No, Kristen, I would not call for a freeze. I would not be dictating policy to the Israeli government. But I would advise, as friends do, that that type of violence in the West Bank is a distraction from what needs to be done, which is to protect Israeli's territorial integrity, protect the safety and security of their citizens, and to make sure that Hamas' capability to commit this type of act again is degraded militarily.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Let me ask you about Elon Musk, who is making some waves. He was criticized this week for endorsing a post on his own platform, X, where a user accused Jewish people of hating white people, which as you know is an anti-Semitic conspiracy theory. Vivek Ramaswamy said it's crazy to call Musk anti-Semitic. What was your reaction to Elon Musk?
FMR. GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE:
Look, I think that what we're seeing in this country, Kristen, with the rise – incredible unmasking of anti-Semitism, I don't want to say it's a rise. I think it's been there. And I think what we're seeing now, due to what's happening in Israel at the moment, is an unmasking of that.
We're seeing it all over college campuses. We're seeing it on social media sites like X and – and TikTok and other social media sites, and it is horrific. And I think the president of the United States needs to be much stronger than he's been in speaking out against anti-Semitism in this country. This is an outrage – outrageous type of hate that's being expressed, and we need to be speaking out against it no matter who does it, whether it's Elon Musk, whether it's professors on our college campuses where students that they are misleading, or whether it's individuals who are speaking out in an anti-Semitic way on the streets of our cities. This is unacceptable. And the president has not been strong enough in this view – in this point in my view.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Governor, let me ask you about one of the biggest policy positions for Republicans right now, which is the issue of abortion. Your rival, Governor Ron DeSantis, signed a six-week ban in Florida. As you know, Donald Trump said that was a quote, "terrible mistake." And just this weekend Nikki Haley said on Friday she would've signed a six-week ban as the governor of South Carolina. Where are you on this issue of a six-week ban, governor? Can you be clear for voters?
FMR. GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE:
Yeah, I sure can be. I think each state should make their own decision, Kristen. And I – and I think that that's what Dobbs was all about was letting each state and its people make their own decision. And we've seen referenda go on in places like Kansas and Ohio and other places where voters are getting to express their view on this. I think that's the way it should've always been. This is not a federal constitutional issue. This is a state issue, Kristen, and each state should make their own judgment on this. And I think the president or people running for president should not be in a position of picking a certain number of weeks.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Governor, RNC chairwoman Ronna McDaniel told me last week on this show, quote, "We can't just say it's a state's issue and be done. Voters want clarity." So can you give them some? Where do you stand on a six-week ban, governor? Would you sign it, for example, if it had come to your desk in New Jersey?
FMR. GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE:
With my Democratic legislature in New Jersey no ban would've come to my desk, Kristen.
KRISTEN WELKER:
But –
FMR. GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE:
– So it's a ridiculous question, –
KRISTEN WELKER:
– But –
FMR. GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE:
– with all due respect.
KRISTEN WELKER:
– But , governor –
FMR. GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE:
No, no, I'm not going to get into hypotheticals.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Where are – do you support –
FMR. GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE:
I'm not going to get into hypotheticals, Kristen. I'm simply not.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Do you support a six-week ban? How do you feel about a six-week ban, you, Governor Christie?
FMR. GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE:
Kristen. Kristen, I have said my position on this, which is that every state and its people should make its own judgment on this issue. I have governed as a pro-life governor in New Jersey, and I believe in the sanctity of human life. But I am not going to get into this media game of six weeks, 12 weeks, 15 weeks, 20 weeks. I want the American people to decide. That's the right way to make this judgment. And with all due respect to Ronna, she's not running for president and she's never governed. So she doesn't know how hard these choices are and how you have to interact with people. Look, this is an extraordinary emotional issue for the American people. And I believe that the Supreme Court has robbed the American people of their right to be heard on this. They should be heard, and nobody in Washington DC should rob the American people of their right to be heard in each and every state. And when I'm president I won't do that.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right. Governor Chris Christie, thank you so much for joining us this morning. We really appreciate it.
FMR. GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE:
Kristen, thanks for having me.
KRISTEN WELKER:
When we come back, Democrats are divided over the Israeli-Hamas war. Democratic Senator Richard Blumenthal of Connecticut joins me next.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Welcome back. Tension over the Israel-Hamas war is simmering inside the Democratic Party. Only half of Democratic voters say they approve of President Biden's handling of the war. And just a core of Democrats say Israeli military action in Gaza is justified. More than half say Israel has gone too far and its military actions are not justified. Joining me now is Democratic Senator Richard Blumenthal of Connecticut. Welcome to Meet the Press. Thank you for being here.
SEN. RICHARD BLUMENTHAL:
Thank you. Wonderful to be with you.
KRISTEN WELKER:
I want to start off, again, by asking about this breaking news that negotiators may be closing in on a deal to release some of the hostages, in exchange for, potentially, a pause in the fighting. What is your reaction to this? And what can you tell us about this potential deal? What are you hearing? Do you think Americans might be involved?
SEN. RICHARD BLUMENTHAL:
I think Americans will be involved and must be involved. You know, I visited Israel just weeks ago and met with many of the hostage families. And it is just heartbreaking, gut wrenching. And I have kept in touch with them, met with them here, talked on the phone. And the release of the hostages is an imperative. And Americans must be included. I think we're closer than ever, but close is still no deal. And verification and enforcement are key sticking points that need to be overcome.
KRISTEN WELKER:
And just to be clear, what gives you confidence that Americans are likely involved?
SEN. RICHARD BLUMENTHAL:
I have a high degree of confidence that Americans will be involved. There are nine of them and a green card holder, perhaps more. But Americans' involvement will be an imperative, I think, for the president, rightly so.
KRISTEN WELKER:
You just heard Deputy National Security Advisor Jon Finer stand by the U.S. intelligence and the Israeli intelligence that has said that Hamas has embedded itself in Al-Shifa Hospital. As you know, there is still a fair amount of skepticism about that charge, globally speaking. What more does the U.S. – what more does Israel need to do, do you think, to prove that claim?
SEN. RICHARD BLUMENTHAL:
A lot of the intelligence has been released, already. Some of the videos of one of the other hospitals, a children's hospital, showed that there were tunnels and armed storage facilities under that hospital. Obviously, there's video of the shaft at Al-Shifa Hospital. But here is the key point that I think is so important: There needs to be more transparency. Both Israel and the United States need to release more of this intelligence. Time after time, Kristen, when I have attended briefings in the classified section of the United States Capitol, I say at the end, "You know, our adversaries know this stuff. They know we know this stuff. We know they know we know it. The only people who don't know it are the American public." And there is reliable intelligence that can and should be released, without compromising sources and methods, that would bolster Israel's case in the court of world opinion and would also support the United States aiding Israel, as it must do.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, you take me to my next question. As you know, the president has called for Congress to provide aid to Israel, more aid to Ukraine, Taiwan, as well as the border. Senator Bernie Sanders and other Democrats are calling for the U.S. to condition aid to Israel on a quote, "End to the indiscriminate bombing and a freeze on settlement expansion." If that is a part of a deal for Israel aid, would you support that?
SEN. RICHARD BLUMENTHAL:
I would oppose conditions written into statutes as a criteria for aid to Israel. I don't know how the United States Congress, which has yet to pass a budget, can impose conditions for combat on an ally that is trying to defend itself as it has a right and responsibility to do under some of the most difficult conditions of warfare in recent history. And so I would be very loath to impose conditions that would, in effect, straitjacket or handcuff the IDF in this very, very excruciatingly difficult challenge.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Let me take a step back and ask you about antisemitism, broadly. And I want to get your reaction to Elon Musk endorsing an antisemitic post on his platform X. The Musk post was condemned by the White House, as you know. Large companies like Apple, and Comcast, the parent company of NBC News, have pull advertising from the platform. What was your reaction and what is your concern when you see a post like that?
SEN. RICHARD BLUMENTHAL:
My reaction to Elon Musk's post was absolute abhorrence. His saying that this blatantly antisemitic comment was, quote, "The actual truth," is sickening and chilling. And Elon Musk has turned X, formerly known as Twitter, into a cesspool of hate speech and extremist incitement. And I encourage, in fact, I urge advertisers like IBM, which has done so, to withdraw from X and to send a message to Elon Musk that hate has no place on this powerful megaphone. And as you know, the surge of antisemitic, anti-Muslim, white supremacist, anti-Black sentiment on social media has been an incubator, in fact, an accelerant to more than just speech – action that constitutes hate crimes.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Just finally, Senator, I want to ask you a little bit of politics now about our new polling, which shows for the very first time President Biden is getting beaten by former President Trump within the margin of error. Part of what's dragging down his poll numbers is a lack of support among younger voters for his handling of the Israel-Hamas war. How concerned are you about these numbers and what do you think the president needs to do? Do you think he's still the best candidate for 2024?
SEN. RICHARD BLUMENTHAL:
I think he is the best candidate for 2024. I have confidence that he will overcome those poll numbers. We're a year away. But remember, even more important than the polls, are what voters are doing. In the most recent elections in Kentucky, Ohio, Pennsylvania, they showed that they prefer the Biden record of accomplishment over the mega extremism. And here's the important point, in Ohio, voters said, "We reject the effort to undercut women's healthcare and reproductive rights." I think we're going to see that issue on the ballot. President Biden has a record of accomplishment on infrastructure, prescription drug prices, a number of other issues that really matter, and, maybe most important, where I've been championing this cause, women's reproductive rights.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Senator Blumenthal, thank you so much for being here. We really appreciate it.
SEN. RICHARD BLUMENTHAL:
Thank you.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Good to see you. And when we come back, will Senator Joe Manchin run for president in 2024? He's not ruling it out just yet.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Welcome back. The last time his seat was up in 2018, Democratic Senator Joe Manchin said he'd wrestled with the idea of even running for reelection. Here's how he described his conversation with Senate Democratic Leader Chuck Schumer at the time and what led him to his eventual decision.
[START TAPE]
SEN. JOE MANCHIN:
And I said, "Chuck, this place sucks." I said –
CHUCK TODD:
So why are you running?
SEN. JOE MANCHIN:
– it.
CHUCK TODD:
If it – if it sucks, why are you running –
SEN. JOE MANCHIN:
Well I –
CHUCK TODD:
– for reelection?
SEN. JOE MANCHIN:
Because I think I can make it better. I think I can contribute to bringing people together. I don't have one Republican that I consider not my friend. They're all my friends. And I want to work with them.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, that was blunt. This week, I spoke with Senator Manchin on the heels of his announcement to leave Congress at the end of his term. I pressed him on his 2024 plans and whether he'd consider an independent run for president.
[START TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
You've said you don't think you would be a spoiler. If you look at the polls, it shows that a third-party candidate would take support away from President Biden. What do you say to those who say you would be a spoiler –
SEN. JOE MANCHIN:
I've never been –
KRISTEN WELKER:
– if you ran?
SEN. JOE MANCHIN:
– a spoiler in my life of anything, and I would never be a spoiler now. But the bottom line is everyone says –
KRISTEN WELKER:
If you ran as a third-party candidate?
SEN. JOE MANCHIN:
Everyone's saying that it's going to spoil and tip the scales one way or the other. Okay? You have basically Ross Perot. Who would have predicted that Ross Perot would have elected Bill Clinton, tip the scales to Bill Clinton? I don't think so. Who would have predicted that Bobby Kennedy now, with his support, would tip the scales for Donald Trump? Or hurt Donald Trump, I'm sorry, and tip the scales to Joe Biden, since he basically left the Democratic Party. I don’t – you know, no one can predict these things.
KRISTEN WELKER:
As you sit here today, do you think President Biden and Vice President Harris are the strongest ticket to represent the Democratic Party in 2024?
SEN. JOE MANCHIN:
Not in the centrist part, no, I don't. And they know how I feel. This is not a – I do not believe that they are basically where Joe Biden has come from – and just go back to the campaign. He's been here for long, he understands the system. And I think he's a good man. And we have good conversations; we just disagree. "You're going too far left. I can't go there."
KRISTEN WELKER:
And you can see my full interview with Senator Joe Manchin at MeetThePress.com. When we come back, President Biden hits a new low point in his presidency, according to our new NBC News poll. The panel is here with all of their reaction next.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Welcome back, the panel is here: NBC News Capitol Hill Correspondent Ryan Nobles; Helene Cooper, Pentagon correspondent for The New York Times; former Democratic Congresswoman Stephanie Murphy of Florida; and former Republican Congressman Carlos Curbelo also of Florida. Thanks to all of you for being here. Ryan, I want to start with you and these tough poll numbers for President Biden, showing former President Trump beating him for the very first time in our poll. You've been talking to folks inside Biden world. What are they telling you?
RYAN NOBLES:
Yeah. I mean, I think the campaign knows that this is an issue for them, and it's something that they have to deal with. But they – they're hoping that, by this time next year, actually a little earlier than this time next year, that voters understand that it's a binary choice, it's either going to be Donald Trump or Joe Biden or some other Republican, and that even though they may not be specifically happy with the way the president has handled this situation, that they're not going to want to hand the White House to Donald Trump. And that means though that they've got to get a lot of work done between now and then, and they're aware of it. They're reaching out to these constituencies and explaining to them how the president is trying to balance the issues of these innocent Palestinians along with the right for Israel to defend itself. But part of it is they've got to get something done. And we have some new reporting this morning with our colleague Julie Tsirkin about finding aid for Israel in the Congress, which has been so difficult right now. And what we're being told by congressional leaders is that they really believe they've got to get a package done between Thanksgiving and Christmas because if this extends into the new year and we're up against a funding deadline, it's going to be that much more difficult to get it all done.
KRISTEN WELKER:
And that is a tight timeline. And, Helene, you talk about getting something done. It would be significant if there was, in fact, a deal to release the hostages. Because part of what this poll shows is that President Biden's getting low marks for his handling of foreign policy, for his handling of this war, particularly among younger voters. They're just abandoning him on this issue.
HELENE COOPER:
They really are. He's – he’s in danger of not losing his own party over this, but he's really seen his support go down, as your polls showed, among young Democrats who are very angry of his full embrace, I would say, of – of a right-wing Israeli government – the right-wing Israeli government of Benjamin Netanyahu. And I think that's where this hostage deal could actually help President Biden a little because this hostage deal is significant for the families of the hostages, of course. But it's also significant in that this would be the first de-escalatory step we've seen since October 7th. This is going to be the first time that the two sides are starting to step back, away from the escalation that we've had. And if it brings with it a five-day humanitarian pause, people are hoping, people within the U.S. government are hoping — you don't know, maybe you could extend that pause – are hoping that would – this would at least for five days be a cessation of the bombing campaigns that you're seeing and this spiraling of the civilian death toll, which is what is hurting President Biden, I think, in the – in the polls.
KRISTEN WELKER:
It is. It would be so significant. And if you look at – Stephanie, this word cloud that we have from our poll, it's so fascinating. You see “foreign policy” mentioned at the top, "poor economic status," "backed out of student loan bill," which is of course, the Supreme Court blocked the president's actions on student loans, "disagree with funding for Israeli and Gaza," what Ryan was just talking about.
STEPHANIE MURPHY:
Yeah. You know, this problem – the problem for President Biden is that these are issues that are a problem for him not just with Democrats but also with Republicans and Independents. For example, "backed out of student loans," when he was unable to deliver on the promise to cancel loans, he disappointed Democrats but then he also upset people who are non-college educated who felt like he was trying to take their taxpayer dollars and pay for somebody else's college education. And he has struggled with the economy across the board. I think Bidenomics isn't being bought by the American people.
KRISTEN WELKER:
One of the top issues, there's no doubt about that. A lot of strategists want him to shift his messaging there. Carlos, when you look at the Republican field, Nikki Haley has real momentum here. But does she have enough time to catch up? We're about two months until Iowa.
CARLOS CURBELO:
Well, Kristen, something the NBC News poll reveals is that both these frontrunners, Trump and Biden, are very weak. They both have major liabilities, so this race for second place in the Republican Party is important. And someone like Nikki Haley, if she had the opportunity to face off one-on-one with Donald Trump early in the primary season, you could see a path for her. So some Republicans are increasingly excited about Haley. And, again, I think it's important not to dismiss this race for second place because who knows what's going to happen to both these frontrunners.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Yeah. It's a really great point. I want to talk to you all about something I talked to my guests about, which is this rise in antisemitic and, frankly, hate that we are seeing across the board online. In addition to the Elon Musk post that we talked about, we saw this stunning thing, this letter by Osama Bin Laden, justifying the 9/11 attacks. Helene, it's hard to even talk about. The letter is filled with anti-Semitic hate in it. Is this a national security threat?
HELENE COOPER:
I don't know that – it's such a good question. And that letter made me crazy. A friend of mine sent me the TikTok video, and it's not the letter. We've all seen the letter. The letter came out back in 2002, I think, right after the 9/11 bombings –
KRISTEN WELKER:
2002, yes.
HELENE COOPER:
– when Osama Bin Laden released this. And we read it in the time and, all of a sudden, it resurfaces 20 years later. And you have these TikTok users who are – who are tweeting and posting this letter and saying, "Oh, we've now realized that everything we’ve learned – we thought we knew about America is wrong." Because suddenly, what, is this the first time they're just –
RYAN NOBLES:
Yes. Yes.
STEPHANIE MURPHY:
– reading somebody criticizing American policy? They're not used to that?
RYAN NOBLES:
Well, and I'll say social media is where we see these things. So I think we react and we want to blame social media. But this is something that exists in our society. There's a truth crisis in our society. There's probably an education failure in our society. And young people are disenfranchised in our society, which is probably why they're acting out. And you can kind of understand them. If you're 20, 25 years old and you're asked to make a choice between Joe Biden and Donald Trump in terms of who's going to lead you, you can understand why some of these young people are frustrated with our –
RYAN NOBLES:
And why –
CARLOS CURBELO:
– democracy.
RYAN NOBLES:
– a lot of them may just sit out, right? And I think that's among the many concerns that are facing the Biden White House and the Biden campaign right now. It's not so much that they're worried that their supporters are going to go support Donald Trump or even Nikki Haley. They're more worried that they're just going to stay home, and they can't afford that.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Stephanie, we just have a few seconds.
STEPHANIE MURPHY:
Yes. It's not a –
KRISTEN WELKER:
Young people?
STEPHANIE MURPHY:
– coincidence that young people who consume so much social media are also having these conversations in public. And I think the big concern here is are they debating Americans to Americans on social media? Or are there outside influences stoking division in America?
KRISTEN WELKER:
Great conversation, everyone. That is all for today. Thank you for watching. Happy Thanksgiving. We'll be back next week because, if it's Sunday, it's Meet the Press.