updated 12/5/2011 9:59:46 AM ET 2011-12-05T14:59:46

Guests: Ken Vogel, Goldie Taylor, Lizz Winstead, Mike Papantonio, Chris
Moody, Jesse Lagreca, Sen. Bernie Sanders, Larry Cohen

ED SCHULTZ, HOST: Good evening, Americans. And welcome to THE ED
SHOW tonight from New York.

NBC News is reporting there are strong indications that Herman Cain
will quit the Republican presidential race at a news conference. Well, the
Cain campaign is denying that any decision has been made. But if the
reporting is correct, this means there could be an empty seat and there
could be an empty podium in front of Donald Trump when he does the debate.

This is THE ED SHOW -- let`s get to work.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DONALD TRUMP, BUSINESSMAN: I think I have a lot of good questions to
ask. I feel very strongly about the country. So, we`ll see how that all
turns out. It could be the last debate before the primary in Iowa.

SCHULTZ (voice-over): The Republican circus has a new act, the Donald
Trump debate.

TRUMP: I dealt with these freaking politicians all my life.

SCHULTZ: Tonight, "Ring of Fire" radio host Mike Papantonio and
"Daily Show" co-creator Lizz Winstead on the latest righty embarrassment.

The Cain train is trying to stay on the tracks by launching a new Web
site that lets Cain supporters trash Cain accusers. Goldie Taylor of The
Grio is here with the latest.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The ayes are 51, nays are 49. The motion is not
agreed to.

SCHULTZ: Republicans are on the record. They have voted a to raise
taxes on the middle class.

Today, the president is laying down the gauntlet.

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I expect that it`s
going to get done before Congress leaves, otherwise Congress may not be
leaving, and we can all spend Christmas here together.

SCHULTZ: Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders is here with reaction.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SCHULTZ: Good to have you with us tonight, folks. Thanks for
watching.

Herman Cain is expected to announce tomorrow that whether he`s going
to stay in the race for president. The source close to the candidate has
told NBC News that he has decided to quit. Now, the campaign is responding
to that report. They say no decision has been made. And anything
indicating that a decision has been made is inaccurate.

Herman Cain wants to shield his family from more fallout from
allegations of sexual harassment and a claim of an extramarital affair.

The only caveat according to the source is Herman Cain`s
unpredictability. And we know what that`s all about.

But once again, according to NBC News, there are strong indications
that Herman Cain will withdraw from the race tomorrow. Maybe he`s starting
to get the picture. The latest polls out of Iowa show that his support is
falling big-time, from 23 percent down to 8 percent.

Here`s what the candidate said in South Carolina today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HERMAN CAIN (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Tomorrow in Atlanta, I will
be making an announcement, but nobody`s going to get me to make that
prematurely. That`s all there is to that. So, tomorrow, we`re going to be
opening our headquarters in northwest Georgia where we will also clarify,
there`s that word again, clarify, exactly what the next steps are.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Keep in mind, the candidate has already admitted his wife
did not know about his so-called friendship with Ginger White. So you have
to wonder why his campaign launched a new Web site today called Women for
Herman Cain. His wife, Gloria, oddly enough, is the chairwoman of the Web
site.

A senior adviser to Herman Cain says the Web site is a chance for
female supporters to lift their voices. But it looks like a vehicle for
supporters to trash the women who have accused Herman Cain of sexual
harassment.

Personal testimonies, testimonials to the candidate include one like
this. "Dear Mrs. Cain, don`t pay attention to these pathetic husbandless
women who were jealous of women like you in happy long-term marriages.
These vindictive women can`t find a husband or keep one. They are like
stalkers."

Have we seen anything like this many American politics? Mr. Cain,
I`ll tell you, you`re great for cable and people are paying attention to
it, but you`re terrible for the political process in the country. You`ve
embarrassed a lot of people and the rudderless, rudderless out of touch
Republican Party doesn`t know what`s to do with you and very few people
stood up and side it`s time for you to take a hike.

Get your cell phones out, I want to know what you think.

Tonight`s question: Should Herman Cain drop out of the Republican race
tomorrow? Text "A" for yes, text "B" for no to 622639. You can always go
to our blog at Ed.MSNBC.com. We`ll bring you the results later on in the
show.

Let`s turn now to Ken Vogel of "Politico" and also, Goldie Taylor with
us tonight, columnist for The Grio and managing editor of the Goldie Taylor
Project.

Mr. Vogel, you were the first one in your team to report on this at
"Politico" -- the troubles for Herman Cain. Do you think this is real? Do
you think he is going to step out? What`s it sound like to you?

KEN VOGEL, POLITICO.COM: Well, we`re hearing our sources are telling
us that he is, in fact, leaning toward stepping aside. However, there are
strong forces within his campaign that are urging him to keep on going.
You have to wonder, though, this campaign has been just a study in how not
to handle crisis communications. How much he`s going to be listening to
those folks who have constantly throughout the process of his responding to
these allegations contradicted him, put him in positions where he`s putting
forth what ended up being false allegations about, about the sources of
these allegations.

So, it`s really anyone`s guess at this point, but I think there`s
really not a whole lot of good choices for him. He can drop out now and
look like he was forced out by these stories or continue on and continue to
try to respond to the stories. But we already see how his trajectory is
heading. And that`s down.

And he`s leaving himself really no good options for after the primary,
assuming that he`s not the nominee. His position in the Republican Party
is pretty much squandered. The sort of elevated platform he had, he
squandered that.

SCHULTZ: And, Ken, I want to ask you. Your team reporting and
working with the Herman Cain campaign, have his aides been consistent with
his story throughout all of this? Have they been just as adamant about his
innocence as he has?

VOGEL: Well, they`ve been adamant about his innocence, but they`ve
also had conflicting accounts throughout the whole thing -- both
conflicting with their own previous accounts.

SCHULTZ: It`s got to be hard for them to keep their story straight,
isn`t it ?

VOGEL: It has been. Since the beginning when we reached out to them
about this story about two women who worked for him at the National
Restaurant Association who alleged sexual harassment and got settlements to
leave the association, they initially rejected that entirely. Then they
said he was vaguely familiar with it. Then he came out and said he was
familiar with it but that there was no settlement. Then he had to change
course on that.

It went up through the allegation with Ginger White where he was on
CNN in an interview with Wolf Blitzer saying that these were totally false.
And then his lawyer, Lin Wood, issuing a statement saying that he would not
address these allegations because he doesn`t think they`re germane to a
political campaign.

So, at every step of the way, they`ve just fumbled and bumbled and
unable to articulate a coherent response. And that`s one of reasons why
they`re just no reason to believe that things would turn around if they
stayed in the race.

SCHULTZ: Goldie, what do you make of the Web site that`s been put up
by the Cain campaign that`s encouraging women supporters to come out and go
after, and basically trash the accusers? I have never seen anything like
this in American politics. This is a new low in my opinion. What are your
thoughts on it?

GOLDIE TAYLOR, THEGRIO.COM: Well, it is a new low, but it`s something
to be expected from the Cain campaign. I`ve been saying for weeks that
Cain`s national staff is guilty of nothing short of malfeasance. That if
he had a chance, if he had a pathway to victory in the race, which I never
believed they did, then certainly he squandered it.

And over these last few weeks, you know, that`s been validated again
and again. And to go up with a site like this, on these days when he`s
under such assault from so many quarters on issues of how he treated women
in his life, including an alleged mistress, including women that claimed
that they were victims of sexual assault, including his wife, and to put up
a site like that and host other women who would then take, you know,
despicable shots at the women who have made the allegations, I think is,
you know, just more malfeasance from the Cain campaign and something I
think is to be expected.

But to know that, you know, he`s leaning toward, you know, coming out
of this race tomorrow is probably a good thing, but anybody standing around
him today, promising that he has a pathway to victory, I promise you that
they`re only interested in their own paycheck.

SCHULTZ: Yes. Well, I know some of the people who were working with
John Edwards and how let down they felt and I don`t think this story is
going to go away any time soon because there`s a tremendous amount of
curiosity about Herman Cain right now, about whether these allegations are
truthful or not.

And so, I think some of these people who are working with Herman Cain
could be setting themselves up for a huge disappointment and a professional
embarrassment.

Now, Goldie, I want to ask you -- if Herman Cain is still out there
raising money and selling his book and doesn`t really care if he has any
shot at the presidency, it seems like he would stay in -- unless there were
some truth to these allegations. Here`s Sean Hannity last night talking to
Herman Cain just about that. Here it is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEAN HANNITY, FOX NEWS: Can`t we get plane tickets, confirmation,
can`t we get hotels? Don`t hotels have videotapes that they -- some of
them I would assume hang on to those tapes forever. Go ahead.

CAIN: Sean, do me a favor. Let`s not play detective.

Here`s the deal. I am going to prove that I`m going to reestablish my
character, OK? We`re working on that. My attorney is working on that.
We`re going to work on that, but I don`t want to play detective right now
with all due respect, OK?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Goldie, what`s your response to that?

TAYLOR: My response is, if Cain wanted to work on his character, he
should have started 13 years ago when he met Ginger White. That`s my
response to that.

The other part of this, you know, this isn`t about the court of law.
This is about the court of public opinion. And today, you know, Herman
Cain doesn`t have the credibility necessary to move a campaign forward.

If he`s waiting for anything, if he stays in this race tomorrow and
the weeks to come, I suspect it has more to do with matching funds that
become available in January than anything else. And so, if he`s running
this campaign like a business, if he`s looking for federal matching funds,
then January is his magic date.

But if I`m Herman Cain, I care more about my family. I care more
about my colleagues and friends. I care more about my own character,
integrity, and I step aside and let the country get back to talking about
issues that are really important to us.

SCHULTZ: Yes.

TAYLOR: Unemployment, taxation -- all those things that we`re
severely distracted from because we`re talking about what he did or didn`t
do with this woman or the other.

SCHULTZ: Ken Vogel, is the Republican Party tired of all of this? Is
anybody behind closed doors saying we wish the heck he`d get out?

VOGEL: There are lots of people are saying that, Ed. But, on the
flip side, Mitt Romney who is sort of the presumptive front-runner here, he
actually stands to benefit by having the attention distracted away from
him. It allows him to continue to coast and kind of take this, really,
what he`s taken is sort of a Rose Garden strategy to the Republican
primary.

So, he`s not at all disappointed to see this drag out. In fact, if
Herman Cain drops out, it could potentially help Newt Gingrich or maybe
Michele Bachmann or Rick Perry or one of these other candidates who could
pose a challenge to Mitt Romney in Iowa. So there are real implications on
the race here.

Even as Herman Cain`s popularity has dwindled. He still plays a role
in the race and his dropping out would shake up the race.

SCHULTZ: Goldie Taylor, Ken Vogel, always a pleasure. Good to have
you with us tonight. Thanks a lot.

VOGEL: Thank you, Ed.

SCHULTZ: Remember to answer tonight`s question there at the bottom of
the screen and share your thoughts on Twitter @EdShow. We want to know
what you think.

Coming up, it even gets better, Donald Trump is getting ready to host
a reality show where desperate competitors try to win by kissing up to him.
No, it`s not "The Apprentice." It`s another Republican debate and he`s
going to moderate it.

And the reporter who is in the room when Frank Luntz was telling
Republican governors how to vilify the 99 percent movement. He will join
me live tonight.

Stay with us. We`re right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCHULTZ: Coming up on THE ED SHOW: just when you thought GOP race
couldn`t get any crazier, here comes the Donald. That`s right. Donald
Trump will moderate a debate. Mike. Papantonio and Lizz Winstead -- I
think they have a lot to say about that tonight. They`ll be here.

And the president warns Congress if they don`t get an agreement on the
payroll tax cut, they`ll be spending the holidays on Capitol Hill. Vermont
Senator Bernie Sanders has a lot to say about that. He`ll join me tonight.

And Gretchen Carlson uses weasel words to blame the bad economy on
unions. Some would say that`s "Psycho Talk."

And we want to hear from you. Tweet us with the #EdShow. We`ll be
featuring your tweets throughout the show at the bottom of the screen.

Stay with us. We`re right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCHULTZ: And it gets better. The party that has been stuck with sex
talk for the past several weeks has decided to add one more act to the
three-ring circus. Here comes the Donald.

Donald Trump will moderate a post-Christmas Republican debate down in
Iowa. And as NBC News reports, there is a strong likelihood that Herman
Cain won`t be there. As for other candidates, they haven`t said no. That
tells you all you need to know about today`s GOP.

The debate sponsored by right wing website Newsmax will broadcast on
ION Television. I have to say, I`ve never heard of it.

Newsmax is already bragging about the reality star`s appeal with the
folks. "Our readers in the grassroots really love Trump. They don`t see
him as owned by the Washington establishment, the media establishment."

Well, there`s probably a pretty good reason for that. They don`t want
him.

Trump, of course, is citing his contract with NBC as a reason not to
pursue his own presidential ambitions further. His short-lived
presidential campaign was based on lies about President Obama`s
citizenship.

Trump took a victory lap when the president presented his long-form
birth certificate back in April.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I`m very proud of myself because I`ve accomplished something
that nobody else has been able to accomplish. I am really honored,
frankly, to have played such a big role in hopefully, hopefully getting rid
of this issue.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Days later, President Obama announced the killing of Osama
bin Laden. That may have ended Trump`s phony political career but didn`t
stop a parade of Republican candidates from entering the hallowed halls of
the Trump Tower to kiss his ring.

Herman Cain paid a visit to Trump, so did Rick Perry. Michele
Bachmann met with the guy four times. Mitt Romney also met are Trump,
although he was very careful, make sure he would not be photographed.

Gingrich will meet with Trump on Monday. But the front-runner hasn`t
said whether he will participate in a Trump debate. Newsmax claims it`s
received positive responses from several candidates but won`t give a full
list until next week.

They`ve already gotten a no from one of the GOP`s last remaining
adults. And he`s currently polling in the single digits. A spokesman for
Jon Huntsman gave this reaction. "LOL. We look forward to watching Mitt
and Newt suck up to the Donald with a big bowl of popcorn."

That may be the line of the week.

Let`s bring in Mike Papantonio, host of "The Ring of Fire" radio show,
and Lizz Winstead with us tonight as well, co-creator of "The Daily Show"
and author of the upcoming book "Lizz Free or Die," which is available for
pre-order online.

Great to have both of you with us.

Three marriages, four corporate bankrupt filings, Donald Trump really
is the perfect choice for the Republicans in my opinion. But I guess he
has to do this first.

Mike, what do you make of this? I mean, will candidates actually view
him as somewhat of a journalist and an opportunity to get their message
out? What do you make of it?

MIKE PAPANTONIO, "THE RING OF FIRE" HOST: Republicans will because,
you know, during this Tea Party Republican crazy fest, reality TV has come
to politics. Any day, I expect Snooki from "Jersey Shore" to announce that
Herman Cain had a love child with her that they`ve secreted away or maybe
Kim Kardashian`s going to reveal that the Newt is proposing to marry her
because he`s tired of his third wife.

It`s incredible the way that the identity and the brand of the
Republican Party has gone on the rocks just in four years. You think crazy
when you think about it, but now add to that the buffoonery of this has-
been cartoon character, carnival barker, Donald Trump showing up on the
scene and the brand becomes almost irreversibly damaged prior to 2012.

It couldn`t be worse. I mean, what you look -- bring in the banjo boy
from deliverance, for God`s sake, or maybe the bearded monkey lady. That`s
what the Republican Party is creating here. It`s happening right before
the eyes. It`s almost like you have to wear a dunce cap and Oshkosh
overalls to be a member of the Republican Party.

You hear dueling banjos playing in the background, Donald has not
helped that image at all.

SCHULTZ: Lizz, why would any of these candidates take this seriously?
And this is -- everything is about Donald Trump. What`s going to happen
after the debate is over with, he`s going to go out and say he outdid the
mainstream media, that he had the best debate, it`s all about him.

So, why would they get snookered into doing this with this guy? What
do you think?

LIZZ WINSTEAD, CO-CREATOR, "THE DAILY SHOW": Well, first of all, he`s
replaced bedbugs as America`s number one pest. Let`s just be clear.
Second of all, when you`re on the ION Network, which I`m with you, Ed,
what? Like, I don`t know what bragging rights you actually have.

But basically the bottom line is, is I never thought this was the
party of values, but now when you have Donald Trump in Iowa, you know,
moderating a debate with, I don`t know, nine marriages between some of
these people and 87 kids. It`s like the worst most dysfunctional version
of "The Brady Bunch" that ever happened.

I really don`t know at what point it`s serious. I mean, what are
values to these people anymore? Honestly, what are their values? If
they`re saying, you know what, Herman Cain, you know, what have we learned
about Herman Cain? We learned that four women were in his life. Three
women thought that his advances were sexual harassment. One did not.

So that`s what -- one in four women who Herman Cain hits on doesn`t
think he`s harassing her. That`s what we learned about him. Bye-bye.

SCHULTZ: How about Newt Gingrich, Mike? I mean, he`s a front-runner
here. Why would he lower himself to be on the stage with someone who is
not a serious journalist?

PAPANTONIO: Newt is the perfect candidate. I call him the composite
candidate. He`s the Tea Party composite candidate. He`s a little bit of
flip-flop schizophrenia that we see in Mitt Romney.

He has that sex scandal madness that we saw in Herman Cain. He has
that tinfoil hat delusional aspect in him when he talks that we saw with
Michele Bachmann. He has the bug house stupidity that we saw with Rick
Perry, every time the Newt gets pinned down on real substance.

He is the perfect candidate. That`s the why this is all lining up.
That`s why, you know, that`s why -- it`s anybody`s game right now because
we really does fit the Tea Party Republican profile here.

WINSTEAD: No one who would be considered a heavy hitter in this party
is running for president of the United States.

SCHULTZ: Well, Donald says he`s going to endorse somebody after this
debate.

WINSTEAD: These are all low info voter candidates, every single one
of them. It`s no surprise that they picked Donald Trump. I`m waiting for
them to have Casey Anthony host one of their debates.

SCHULTZ: Watch Trump do this. He`s going to do this then come out
and say I didn`t like any of the answers, none of these guys can do it,
I`ve come to the conclusion and now he`s going to start his campaign. What
do you think?

WINSTEAD: Team up with Palin.

SCHULTZ: Mike Papantonio, Lizz Winstead, great to have you with us
tonight. Thanks so much.

WINSTEAD: Thanks, Ed.

SCHULTZ: "Fox and Friends`" Gretchen Carlson is blaming unions for
the national debt and she`s using an old FOX News trick to it. Gretchen is
going in the zone.

President Obama says Congress should extend the payroll tax cut. And
we can all spend Christmas here together if they don`t.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCHULTZ: And in "Psycho Talk" tonight, the FOX News war on unions
just continues on. Gretchen Carlson fired another shot this morning with
the classic FOX lie.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GRETCHEN CARLSON, FOX NEWS: Some would say that it`s the unions that
have crippled the U.S. economy and led to the United States` debt.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Oh, really? Some would say that? Well, from where I sit,
some people say the United States` debt was caused by the Bush tax cuts,
Bush`s war and the recession.

And the people I`m talking about are coming from the Center on Budget
and Policy Priorities and the Congressional Budget Office. You know them,
the nonpartisan investigative arm of the Congress.

And on the other hand, there are some people Gretchen is talking
about.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIPS)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Unions were a disaster for the British economy.
They are the antithesis of freedom.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We don`t need unions anymore.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Some cash strapped state and local governments say
unions are doing right now -- in a few words, sucking them dry.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Unions have destroyed every company that they`ve
been intimately involved.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We understand the value after unions. They`ve
done great things over time. When they begin to destroy a country, when
they bring --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Destroy a country?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Absolutely.

(END VIDEO CLIPS)

SCHULTZ: Gretchen needs to get some new material, don`t you think?
The "some would say" line has been a FOX News staple for years. My good
friend Robert Greenwald pointed it out in his 2004 documentary "Outfoxed."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIPS)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Some people say in light of what`s happened with
the oil for food programs --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Some people say supported by Iran.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Some say -- I`ve heard a couple people say --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Some say it`s a sour grapes book.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Some people say --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Some people say --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Some people say it`s too violent, there`s too much
flood.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Some people say --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Some people say --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, some people say -

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Some people say --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: For Gretchen Carlson to use a tired old FOX News line to lie
about unions causing the national debt is what some would say unstable
"Psycho Talk."

FOX News is putting Frank Luntz`s strategies to work. We`ll talk to
the reporter who got the inside info on Luntz`s talking points. And Jesse
LaGreca on whether they`re going to work.

Workers around the country are being locked out on their jobs for
demanding fair labor contracts. Larry Cohen of the Communication Workers
of America tells us how workers can fight back.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCHULTZ: Well, the talking points are out. The Republican party is
getting worried about losing to the 99 Percenters across the country. Last
night, I showed you a list of ten lies that Fox News pollster Frank Luntz
is trying to teach Republican governors on how to defeat the Occupy Wall
Street movement.

Luntz went down to Florida and gave the Republican Governors
Association a few tips like, don`t say government spending. Call it waste.

Don`t say the government taxes the rich. Say the government takes
from the rich.

And of course, always blame Washington.

The inside information was reported by Chris Moody from "Yahoo! News,"
who was in the room during Luntz`s meeting. Last night, we neglected to
give credit to this reporter for originating the story, Luntz`s talking
points. We apologize for that oversight.

He joins us tonight. Chris Moody, I did talk about you on the radio
show and say you are the man. I appreciate you being here tonight.

You`re a reporter. I`m not looking for opinion. How -- did the room,
from what you could see -- how was the response from the governors.

CHRIS MOODY, YAHOO! NEWS: Well, this was a meeting of all the
Republican governors in the country and their staff. So it`s probably just
over 100 people or so. It was a talk about 2012, about a number of things.
And Luntz made the point that he`s extremely afraid of the Occupy Wall
Street and the impact they can have on words like capitalism and the
Republican party.

And a number of the governors during the question and answer, they
asked him, what can we do to discuss this movement? And how can we talk to
our constituents that are asking us about these words like --

SCHULTZ: So they were looking for material?

MOODY: They were. Luntz wasn`t necessarily giving a talk about just
Occupy Wall Street. This was coming from the governors. There`s obviously
been some concern. Over the course of an hour or so, after he said he was
terrified of it, he had given these points like, don`t call it capitalism,
call it economic freedom, because that resonates better with people.

Because he`s worried what the Occupy Wall Street movement will do to
the word capitalism, that they`re making it a bad word. So he`s giving
them new talking points so that they can articulate themselves differently.

SCHULTZ: Chris, was there any particular clip that impressed them the
most, that they were most enthusiastic about? Any particular angle or
topic?

MOODY: Well, I think they were really interested when he said don`t
call it taxing the rich, say you`re taking from the rich. All together, I
think they found it very interesting.

One of the things he said at the end was if you give some of your
staff a bonus, don`t call it a bonus. You know? He said call it pay for
performance instead. These are all things that these governors can repeat
over and over and that Republicans can say. And it will poll better. And
they might get more of a reach out of it with their constituents.

SCHULTZ: All of these governors are fighting the job numbers in all
of their states. He said, don`t talk about jobs, talk about careers. What
kind of response did that get?

MOODY: Well, he played a little game with them. He said, all right,
I want everybody to -- you know, do you want -- what would you -- who here
wants a job? And hardly anyone raised their hand. He said, now who here
wants a career? And all the hands went up. They all just kind of went,
oh, you know, that`s a much better word. It`s far more powerful.

But we should note that this is an age-old practice in Washington.
Both sides are guilty of this in some way to get their message across. You
know, we have with, you know, government health care program, you call that
public option.

SCHULTZ: You`re exactly right on all of this. But what makes this
story so interesting that you did is that a lot of the Republicans, a lot
of these conservative broadcasters have been saying, you know, this
movement`s dead. I mean, if this movement is dead, why in the world is the
Republican Governors Convention -- Association, why are they so concerned
about how they`re going to talk to their constituents about it?

Great job. Chris Moody, good to have you with us. We`ll have you
back.

Frank Luntz`s talking points didn`t just come from out of thin air.
We`ve been hearing most of them for a while from the folks over on Fox.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BILL O`REILLY, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: Liberals who say the government must
take from the wealthy and give to the poor.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is it punish the rich and reward these Wall
Street protesters?

STEVE DOOCEY, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: The president and his men are talking
about, you know, soaking the rich.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you take every red cent they`ve got.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Taxes will go on to the shoulders of the job
creators.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How are we going to create jobs if you`re taxing
the very successful people in America who provide the jobs?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Those are the job creators.

SEAN HANNITY, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: Ever since I was on radio and TV, I
have used government waste.

GRETA VAN SUSTERAN, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: Billions and billions of dollars
of waste.

SARAH PALIN, FMR. GOVERNOR OF ALASKA: The waste in government.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They shouldn`t be mad at Wall Street. Wall Street
creates jobs.

PALIN: They should be, you know, making their voices known at 1600
Pennsylvania Avenue.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Joining me now, activist and freelance journalist and
protesters Jesse Lagreca. What do you make of all this?

JESSE LAGRECA, FREELANCE JOURNALIST: I think Wall Street refuses to
pay their taxes because they would rather use that money creating talking
points and buying politicians.

SCHULTZ: Will it work?

LAGRECA: Not at all. The reality is Fox News is irrelevant. We`ve
totally moved beyond them.

SCHULTZ: Well, is the public with you? There`s some polling out
there that`s a little questionable. Now these talking points are coming.
You know they`ve got the machine to throw it at you. What`s the future?

LAGRECA: The future is everything. To be -- I think the public is
obviously with us. When you ask people who they stand with, Scott Olsen
from Occupy Oakland or Bank of America, the decision is pretty obvious.
The fact that the Wall Street and these financiers have unlimited money to
spend on talking points and political nonsense, but they can`t just pay
taxes and build this country back, I think it says a lot about them.

SCHULTZ: You heard Chris Moody. He`s reporting from the room that
these governors are concerned about how they`re going to deal with the 99
Percenters out there, how to talk to them and how to coach the rest of the
people out there that you`re not going down the correct path here. Isn`t
that somewhat of a victory in itself?

LAGRECA: In a small sense, yes, but we`re winning battle. I think --
you know, Politifact called Frank Luntz`s talking points the lie of the
year. Fox News is a lie factory. If I`m a working class guy who`s the
message man, then that`s my talking point. Fox News is a lie factory.
Don`t believe what they say.

SCHULTZ: I want to point out, a couple months ago, Fox News stuck a
camera in your face at the Occupy Wall Street and you knocked it out of the
park. I mean, how can other people do the same thing? You were just right
off the cuff and just nailed them, just took the words right out of the
mouth of the reporter. He was speechless. How do you do that?

LAGRECA: I read a lot. I like to consider myself a student, so to me
it`s about education. And I think Fox News would like to get rid of every
book except Ayn Rand`s collected works and the Bible. You know, to me,
it`s about making yourself aware. We`re talking about closed minded people
who are selling an agenda. So let`s be aware of who we`re up against.

SCHULTZ: So you got a heady crowd out there across America that`s
doing the protesting?

LAGRECA: Absolutely. We`re talking students, teachers, adults,
everybody across the board. I really want to make a point here, that the
Tea Party is the other 99 percent as well. A lot of Republicans have been
done a major disservice by Fox News. They`re a destructive force in
society.

And the Republican party is 49 percent of the 99 percent. I want to
have this conversation with libertarians, Tea Partiers, independents,
moderates. Everybody should be in on this conversation. And it`s no
surprise to me that Fox News just does not want to have an honest
conversation.

SCHULTZ: Jesse, good to have you with us. Keep up the good work.

Republicans are stalling economic progress by holding up a payroll tax
cut in Congress. The president isn`t standing for it. Bernie Sanders,
he`s got opinions on it next. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCHULTZ: Welcome back to THE ED SHOW. There is some good economic
news today. The economy added 120,000 jobs in November. And unemployment
dropped to 8.6 percent. That is a 2.5 year low. I`m sure President Obama
won`t get any credit for that.

The Democrats simply do not want to kill a recovery by raising taxes
on the middle class. Apparently, the Republicans do. It`s just that
simple.

Senate Republicans had a chance to support their own party`s bill that
would have extended the payroll tax cut by slashing government jobs. This
is usually the kind of compromise Republicans go for: cut taxes and pay for
them by making draconian cuts.

But the bill failed last night. In fact, it failed big-time. Only 20
Republicans voted for it, less than half their caucus. The Democratic plan
to extend and expand the payroll tax cut, and pay for it with a surtax on
millionaires, that did win a majority. But it was not enough a overcome a
filibuster.

So here we go again. Today, President Obama offered congress an
ultimatum on getting the payroll tax cut extended.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We`re going to keep
pushing Congress to make this happen. Now`s not the time to slam the
brakes on the recovery. Right now, it`s time to step on the gas. We need
to get this done.

And I expect it`s going to get done before Congress leaves. Otherwise
Congress may not be leaving. We can all spend Christmas here together.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Well, where are the Republicans? Today, House Speaker John
Boehner reportedly called the payroll tax cut, quote, "chicken blank." He
said that he would couple it with something Republicans love, like cutting
environmental regulations.

In a closed-door meeting with his colleagues, Boehner said his plan
would turn chicken blank into chicken salad, according to people who were
attending the meeting.

With us tonight, Vermont Senator independent Bernie Sanders here on
THE ED SHOW. Senator, good to have you with us tonight. You voted against
both of these bills last night. What`s your concern at this point?

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I), VERMONT: Well, absolutely we need a major
tax cut for the middle class. Absolutely it has got to be funded by asking
the wealthiest people in this country to start paying their fair share of
taxes. What I worry about is diverting hundreds of billions of dollars
from the payroll tax, which as you know, funds the future of Social
Security.

President and others say not to worry, the federal government will be
there. We`ll compensate the loss of the payroll tax. But when you have a
15 trillion dollar national debt, I do worry. So what I`m going to fight
for is major tax cuts for the middle class, do it in a progressive way.

But I would hope that we could do it in another way, other than
diverting funds from the payroll tax.

SCHULTZ: Senator, as I read this, it looks like you`re going to have
to get a pound of flesh to get an ounce worth of help out of the
Republicans. I mean, do you think a deal can be made with the folks in a
climate of obstruction in Washington.

SANDERS: Yeah, I do. You know why I think we can, Ed? I think the
Republicans are running scared. I think they`re on the defensive. I think
they understand that the American people have caught on that the Republican
party`s major function in life is to protect the wealthy and the powerful.
It is to not do a damn thing to create the millions of new decent paying
jobs that we need in the country, and that they want to cut Social
Security, Medicare and Medicaid.

You know what, more and more Americans understand that.

SCHULTZ: Well, I think you`re right on that. And the polling is
clearly in favor of the Democrats` position. But what will, in your
opinion, the Democrats give up to get some revenue if anything? Obviously
you`re against cutting any federal jobs. But what would you give up?

SANDERS: I mean, I think there are ways to go forward. I think there
are some waste in some government programs. But absolutely not, we`re not
going to do what the Republicans want, cut hundreds of thousands of federal
jobs. We`re not going to, in my view, continue the wage freeze on federal
employees, which becomes a signal to every employer in America to say to
his workers, sorry, you`re not going to get any wage increase this year.

I think the Republicans are on the defensive. I think the Democrats
got to keep pressing them. And I think you`re going to see more and more
Republicans defect and come up with something that`s half way decent.

SCHULTZ: But senator, the politics of this, what`s wrong with going
home saying that we tried to give you a tax cut, but the Republicans
wouldn`t let us? They wouldn`t give up any revenue whatsoever. Isn`t that
politically -- I mean, the big picture here is to win back the House and
Senate and help President Obama run the progressive agenda.

Isn`t this a golden opportunity to turn to constituents and say, once
again, the Republicans stopped us from helping you?

SANDERS: Well, absolutely, from a political point, it is. But we`re
not just about politics. We`ve also got to produce for the American
people. And we have got to create the jobs that they need and give them
the tax breaks that they need.

Look, if you do not put money into the hands of working families, A,
in the midst of a recession, they`re going to be in very serious trouble.
And B, they`re not going to be able to spend the money to create other
jobs.

This is what I think, Ed. If for once the Democrats remain strong,
they keep pressing the point, yes, we need tax relief, yes, it has got to
be funded in a progressive way, yes, the Republicans continue to obstruct -
- at the end of the day, in my view, Republicans are going to go home.
They`re going to get some serious messages from their constituents. And
some of the guys are going to start to cave.

SCHULTZ: What about the extension of unemployment benefits? In this
climate, is that out of the question?

SANDERS: Absolutely.

SCHULTZ: Because they`re going to come right back and want to extend
the Bush tax cuts. You know where they`re going.

SANDERS: Absolutely. Look, as you just indicated, every poll that I
have seen and that you have seen says it is basically insane. Nobody
believes that you continue to give huge tax breaks to millionaires and
billionaires and then tell people who are unemployed, sorry, we cannot
continue to extend unemployment. Nobody believes it.

The Republicans are on the defensive. We got to keep pressing that
issue.

SCHULTZ: Do you think they`ll go along with extending the
unemployment benefits?

SANDERS: I think if the Democrats remain strong, keep exposing them
for the tools of the rich that they are, yes, we will win on that.

SCHULTZ: Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders, have a great weekend.
Thanks for joining us tonight, senator.

The war on American workers has reached a fever pitch. The 99 percent
is ready to fight back. Larry Cohen of the Communication Workers of
America is next. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCHULTZ: Survey tonight on THE ED SHOW, I asked you, should Herman
Cain drop out of the Republican race tomorrow? Eighty six percent of you
said yes; 14 percent of you say no, it`s just too good entertainment.

Coming up, Larry Cohen of the Commercial -- Communication Workers of
America on the corporate culture that is shifting in this country against
the middle class. We`re right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCHULTZ: Finally tonight, last night on this broadcast I talked about
and gave commentary on what I think has developed in this country as a new
culture against wage earners, a culture in which it`s OK to attack wage
earners. It`s common place.

Corporate bosses have no problem getting rid of longtime workers in a
company and replacing them with cheap labor. In backyard in Moorhead,
Minnesota, workers at the American Crystal Sugar Company in Moorhead, they
have been locked out of their jobs since August. It`s pretty rough right
now.

CEO of the company -- of American Crystal Sugar, David Berg, put
replacement workers on the job rather than give his union employees a
livable wage increase. Workers are holding a public forum tomorrow at
Minnesota State University Moorhead. And I will be there with a television
camera crew to find out just how five months of being locked out is
affecting these workers and families.

We will bring that report to you on Monday. The same thing is going
on in Findlay (ph), Ohio, where more than 1,000 workers are in the fifth
day of being locked out from Cooper Tires.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Has five years at Cooper under his belt.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s been great. I`ve had two brothers that
retired from here. And I`ve always wanted to get in here. And I finally
get in here and it`s not looking good right now.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mark`s concerned about company plans to bring in
replacement workers during the dispute.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They`re making good quality products. And it`s
like it doesn`t matter to them. They`ll get temporary labor, which the
quality is what I`m concerned about with the customers.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Let`s bring in Larry Cohen. He is the president of the
Communication Workers of America, not connected with that strike situation.
But certainly connected with workers and what they`re going through in this
country. Larry, I want to speak to you about the big picture.

Your thoughts on what we`re seeing in this country. I think a new
culture has developed, whether it`s union or just a wage earner out there.
Your thoughts on that?

LARRY COHEN, COMMUNICATIONS WORKER OF AMERICA: So we have the bad
news, as we just saw, company after company looking for a quick way to
increase profits, not the old-fashioned way to increase revenues, but a
quick way by cutting costs. And they`ll cut costs at all costs. So we see
American Airlines file for bankruptcy with billions of dollars in cash, and
the chief financial officer announce this week that, well, we`re going to
do that to lower labor costs.

We have example after -- and the CEO quits because he says we didn`t
need to go bankrupt. So, you knows, we have example after example. Big
examples like that or the ones you talk about in Findlay, Ohio, or in
Minnesota.

But when we add it together, we get a report like we got today from
the Labor Department. Good news, 120,000 new jobs. Bad news, inflation
went up 3.6 percent; wages went up 1.8 percent. We will never, ever
recover this economy if we have inflation outstripping wages as we`ve had
for decades, in this case by a two to one margin.

So with the micro case, corporate management wants to cut, cut, cut.
In the macro, it means the economy goes down, down, down. It`s not just a
human rights issue, which would be enough reason to change it. It`s an
economic issue.

SCHULTZ: You have been dealing with the Verizon situation since last
August. How did you encourage your members to stay in the fight and stay
the course?

COHEN: Our members believe, as they did marching in San Francisco
today, or in New York two weeks ago, hooked up in many cases with the
Occupy Movement, that they`re fighting not just for themselves. They`re
fighting for their children and their communities.

They`re fighting to keep their standard of living. They`re fighting
to bring back 10,000 jobs that Verizon has moved to Asia. They`re fighting
to invest in high speed broadband in communities from Baltimore to Boston.
So I think when workers believe that they`re in a fight, that they have
community support, that they`re in the news, thanks to folks like you, they
take heart and are willing to stand up and fight back.

That`s what`s going on at Verizon.

SCHULTZ: You`re also fighting a media sound chamber. We played a
sound bite earlier tonight from the other network, Fox News, about how the
unions are -- some would say -- the broadcaster said some people would say
that the unions are the problem with the economy. What`s your response to
that?

COHEN: Well, I think they have a new problem that the unions are a
big part of the 99 percent. And in any Occupy movement, from coast to
coast, there is a building bond between workers, whether they have unions,
want to organize, can`t organize, and the broader movement for the 99
percent. So I think those CEOs that are hoping that they can isolate
workers, isolate unions, they`re going to find that there`s a movement for
democracy and economic justice sweeping America. They`ll get swept out.

SCHULTZ: You think 2012, all of these folks who are in the streets
will be politically engaged and looking for change? You think that there
be a political price to pay in Washington?

COHEN: I think that`s what we have to work for. I don`t think it`s
automatic. I think it`s within reach. I think we have to aim for it, work
for it, fight for it every day for it. And I think we can have that kind
of year in 2012.

SCHULTZ: Larry Cohen, great to have you with us, president of the
Communication Workers of America. Appreciate your time.

I want to remind our viewing audience that I`m going to be in
Moorhead, Minnesota, tomorrow. We`ll have that report for you on Monday
here on THE ED SHOW.

That`s THE ED SHOW. I`m Ed Schultz. You can listen to my radio show
on Sirius XM Radio, channel 127, Monday through Friday, noon to 3:00.
Follow me on Twitter @EdShow and @WeGotEd.

"THE RACHEL MADDOW SHOW" starts right now. Good evening, Rachel.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY
BE UPDATED.
END

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