updated 7/2/2012 10:55:43 AM ET 2012-07-02T14:55:43

Guests: George Miller, Howard Dean, Nancy Pelosi, Rep. Keith Ellison, Karen
Finney

ED SCHULTZ, HOST: Good evening, Americans. And welcome to THE ED
SHOW, live from Washington, D.C.
Ed
The American people have won a historic victory in the Supreme Court.
The Affordable Care Act is constitutional and nothing will ever change
that.

This is THE ED SHOW -- let`s get to work.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The bottom line here is the Supreme Court has
withheld the health care law.

SCHULTZ (voice-over): The Supreme Court has stunned the nation. The
Affordable Care Act is here to stay.

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The highest court in
the land has now spoken. We will continue to implement this law.

SCHULTZ: The law would not have passed without Democratic leader
Nancy Pelosi. Tonight, she joins me for an exclusive interview on today`s
ruling.

(on camera): So it`s not a job killer.

REP. NANCY PELOSI (D), CALIFORNIA: It`s not. It creates 4 million.

SCHULTZ (voice-over): On Mitt Romney`s reaction to the ruling.

PELOSI: Listening to Mitt Romney today, I was confused.

SCHULTZ: And the future for single payer.

PELOSI: As far as our families are concerned, the best is yet to come
as more of this bill, of this act, unfold.

SCHULTZ: Also tonight, former Governor Howard Dean and Congressman
George Miller on how this ruling will change your life forever.

Karen Finney on the politics of the ruling and the far right wing
reaction.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This was an activist court that you saw today.

SCHULTZ: All that and the Democrats walk out as Darrell Issa`s
political witch hunt comes to an ugly end.

ERIC HOLDER, ATTORNEY GENERAL: It`s clear they were not interested in
bringing an end to this dispute or even obtaining the information they say
they wanted. Ultimately, their goal was to vote that helps special
interest they now have engineered.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SCHULTZ: Good to have you with us tonight, folks, thanks for
watching. It`s a great day for Democrats, the president of the United
States, Barack Obama, and for all Americans who rely on fair and affordable
health care in this country.

Now, the Supreme Court voted to uphold the individual mandate in the
Affordable Care Act. The decision leaves the president`s signature
legislative achievement almost completely intact.

The controlling opinion was written by Chief Justice John Roberts --
which surprised a lot of folks. Roberts broke away from the court
conservatives to side with the Obama administration in declaring the law
constitutional.

The ruling gives President Obama a chance to restate and reset the
table when it comes to health care in this country. He explained today
what the law does for a vast majority of Americans.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: Today`s decision was a victory for people all over this
country whose lives will be more secure because of this law and the Supreme
Court`s decision to uphold it. And because this law has a direct impact on
so many Americans, I want to take this opportunity to talk about what
exactly it means for you.

First, if you`re one of the more than 250 million Americans who
already have health insurance, you will keep your health insurance. This
law will only make it more secure and more affordable.

Insurance companies can no longer impose lifetime limits on the amount
of care you receive. They can no longer discriminate against children with
pre-existing conditions. They can no longer drop your coverage if you get
sick. They can no longer jack up your premiums without reason.

They are required to provide free preventive care like check-ups and
mammograms -- a provision that`s already helped 54 million Americans with
private insurance. And by this August, nearly 13 million of you will
receive a rebate from your insurance company because it spent too much on
things like administrative costs and CEO bonuses and not enough on your
health care.

There`s more. Because of the Affordable Care Act, young adults under
the age of 26 are able to stay on their parents` health care plans, a
provision that`s already helped 6 million young Americans. And because of
the Affordable Care Act, seniors receive a discount on their prescription
drug -- a discount that`s already saved more than 5 million seniors on
Medicare about $600 each.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Health care reform in America is most important for the
millions who cannot afford the high cost of private insurance. The
president told those Americans what they can rely on as this law is fully
implemented.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: If you`re one of the 30 million Americans who don`t yet have
health insurance, starting in 2014, this law will offer you an array of
quality, affordable private health insurance plans to choose from. If
you`re sick, you`ll finally have the same chance to get quality affordable
health care as everyone else. And if you can`t afford the premiums, you`ll
receive a credit that helps pay for it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: President Obama closed his remarks today with a story about
one person`s struggle with the previous health care system.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: There`s a framed letter that hangs in my office right now. It
was sent to me during the health care debate by a woman named Natoma
Canfield. For years and years, Natoma did everything right. She bought
health insurance, she paid her premiums on time.

But 18 years ago, Natoma was diagnosed with cancer, and even though
she`d been cancer free for more than a decade, her insurance company kept
jacking up her rates year after year, and despite her desire to keep her
coverage, despite her fears that she would get sick again, she had to
surrender her health insurance and was forced to hang her fortunes on
chance.

Natoma is well today, and because of this law, there are other
Americans, other sons and daughters, brothers and sisters, fathers and
mothers, who will not have to hang their fortunes on chance. These are the
Americans for whom we passed this law.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: And we are told the president called that lady tonight to
congratulate her.

The court decision marks an end to the second major battle over health
care reform. Republicans are determined to have a third battle. Their
only recourse is to tell the American people that they will repeal the law.

Mitt Romney said the court`s decision was wrong and he will dedicate
his presidency to fighting it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MITT ROMNEY (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: What the court did not do on
its last day in session, I will do on my first day if elected president of
the United States. And that is, I will act to repeal Obamacare.

Let`s make clear that we understand what the court did and did not do.
What the court did today was say that Obamacare does not violate the
Constitution. What they did not do was say that Obamacare is a good law or
that it`s good policy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Well, Mitt Romney needs to get with the program. It`s not
the job of the Supreme Court to decide whether a law is good policy. The
Supreme Court decides whether a law is valid by the letter of the United
States Constitution.

There is no more debate over the Affordable Care Act. It is
constitutional. This is a day of vindication in my respects. Every
Democratic president since Franklin Roosevelt had health care reform on
their agenda.

There`s a feeling among the Democrats here in Washington that they
have really accomplished something that is going to be great for
generations to come. As Joe Biden said, leaving out the F-word, this
really is a big deal.

Get your cell phones out. I want to know what you think tonight.
Tonight`s question: did the Supreme Court make the right decision?

Text A for yes, text B for no, to 622639, you can always go to our
blog at Ed.MSNBC.com. We`ll bring you the results later on in the show.

I`m joined tonight by the senior Democrat on the House Education and
Workforce Committee, George Miller of California. And Howard Dean, former
governor of Vermont and chairman of the DNC.

Gentlemen, great to have you with us tonight.

Congressman, let me start with you. I believe if I have my numbers
right, it was 38 years ago you were elected to the Congress.

REP. GEORGE MILLER (D), CALIFORNIA: That`s right.

SCHULTZ: You wanted to stop the war in Vietnam and you want to get
health care. This has been a long haul for you.

MILLER: It`s a long haul.

SCHULTZ: You got to feel great.

MILLER: I feel great. It`s a very, very exciting day for the
American people. Just think, they have access to affordable health care
that cannot be taken away, and they control their health care decisions
now, not the insurance companies.

SCHULTZ: What does this mean? Does this there`s more to come? Does
this set the table?

MILLER: This sets the table in terms of the benefits that the
president outlined that cut through the entire American society of people
benefiting from this, including small businesses that are getting the tax
credits.

But we know there`s more to come, because there`s more to come from
the Republicans who have now decided they`ll launch a legislative assault
against what happened today, where for the first time in the history of
this country, Americans have health care that can`t be taken away, that`s
affordable, and they get all of the additional benefits of reduced cost for
prescription drugs and for wellness care, for mammograms, all the things
that are important to families.

SCHULTZ: I went to the Republican briefing on the Hill today. They
are calling it a job killer. They are saying it`s terrible for small
business.

You didn`t say that.

MILLER: Well, the fact is that we have about 300,000 small businesses
and 2 million of their employees have gotten health care since this became
the law because they get credits to help pay for the health care. These
small businesses want to offer health care, they couldn`t afford it because
of the nature of their business.

SCHULTZ: Now they can?

MILLER: Now they can and they are doing it. They are doing it.

SCHULTZ: Governor Dean, we know one thing about the Republicans, they
don`t give up, and the next four months are going to be politically brutal.

First of all, your response to the ruling today. I know you`re not a
fan of the mandate. Your response to the ruling and your coaching, so to
speak, on how the Democrats have to sell this the next four months and run
on it.

HOWARD DEAN, FORMER DNC CHAIRMAN: Well, first of all, this was a
great ruling, not in the least because John Roberts, they are going to have
a hard time calling John Roberts a socialist, even on FOX News.

Secondly, Governor Romney -- if Governor Romney hadn`t been governor
of Massachusetts, we wouldn`t be seeing this bill, because he pioneered the
bill, so for him to criticize is it just ludicrous.

Thirdly, George is right, a lot of good -- I wasn`t a big fan of the
bill. I thought the House did a great job of the bill. I wasn`t a fan the
bill as it came out of the Senate, but there are a lot of good things in
this bill that are going to make a big difference to people.

I`m a little nervous about the Medicaid ruling because Medicaid has
insured more people under this bill than anything else, and I want to take
a look and see if that got undermined by the reservations judge -- Justice
Roberts had.

But in general, it`s a great day for the president and all the people
who worked hard to do this. This is not the way I would have done it, but
this is a universal system, other countries use this kind of a universal
system and it`s time America join the rest of the industrialized
democracies in the world.

SCHULTZ: Governor Dean, should Republicans -- should Democrats run on
this? I mean, should they go home and say this is what we accomplished,
the Supreme Court`s with us and let`s move forward? Is that a good play
for the Democrats?

DEAN: They can, Ed, but the truth is the Republicans are doing this
to whip up their base, they are not doing this because swing voters don`t
like -- swing voters like what`s in this bill. They do. They don`t like
the mandate, but they do like the benefits for their kids, for their
parents, their ability to move their insurance if they lose their job. I
mean --

SCHULTZ: Yes.

DEAN: -- one of the terrifying things about losing your job when
you`re 55 is you`ll never get insurance again, now you will because Obama
and the Congress -- and Democrats in the Congress of the United States.

So, again, this election is going to be on the economy and whether
people trust Mitt Romney to represent their interests, which they
overwhelmingly do not, because they know he`s for the 1 percent. I think
this is a great day for the Democrats, and they`ve earned it.

SCHULTZ: Mitt Romney made a lot of misleading statements about the
law today in his statement. Here it is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROMNEY: Obamacare adds trillions to our deficits and to our national
debt and pushes those obligations on to coming generations. Obamacare also
means that for up to 20 million Americans, they will lose the insurance
they currently have, the insurance that they like and they want to keep.
Obamacare is a job killer.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Congressman, it`s like it`s two different worlds.

MILLER: It is two different worlds.

SCHULTZ: I mean, is he lying to the American people?

MILLER: He`s misleading the American people. He`s lying to the
American people, because that`s not what it does. He knows that the
congressional budget office says that this saves over $1 trillion in
reducing health care costs over the coming years. It`s the beginning of
the reduction of health care costs.

The fact of the matter is, we see small businesses expanding their
businesses, providing health care to their employees because they get some
assistance through the job credits.

And remember this, something else goes along with this health care
coverage that can never be taken away, economic security.

You know how many millions of Americans in this recession lost their
health care because they lost their job, not because they weren`t good
workers, it`s because of the scandals on Wall Street they lost their jobs,
then they lost their health care, and then they ended up in bankruptcy
court. That doesn`t happen to people in the future.

And for people who want to start a business but worry about leaving
the company they are with because their wife and spouse -- their spouse, if
you will, and child, they can now be entrepreneurial. They can start
businesses.

This is economic security and economic growth for this nation, because
health care was going up 16 percent a year before we ever talked about
introducing this bill. Companies were coming in all of the time and
saying, I`m going to drop my health care, I`m going to drop my health care,
I`m going to drop my health care.

SCHULTZ: Governor Dean, I want to ask about how you think the Romney
campaign is going to play this move forward. I made a comment earlier
today and I believe this. I mean, I think it`s going to be easier for him
because now he doesn`t have to come up with a health care plan, all he`s
got to do is run against Obamacare, as he calls it.

DEAN: Yes, but the problem is, the court has given its imprimatur to
this. That matters to America. Truly the court has its low ratings and
all that because they`re so political, but when you get a court, especially
led by a conservative, who everybody knows is a conservative, who supports
this, that gives Obama some cover.

This still is also going to have some unintended consequences, most of
which are good. For example, the Democrats don`t like me to say this, but
it is true that small businesses in droves are going to put their people
out of their own insurance and into the exchanges. That`s going to be
great for the small businesses and good for the employees who are now going
to have insurance that doesn`t depend on their employment. So even some of
the things that weren`t intended in this bill are going to be very good.

The ACOs, which is a complicated thing we don`t have to get into is
probably going to end up reforming the way we pay for health care and in
turn this into a wellness system, instead of an illness system.

So, there`s a lot of stuff in this bill that`s going to work out very,
very well. There`s some things -- the expenses are going to have to be
dealt with down the road, but this is a big step forward.

SCHULTZ: And we should point out that the Medicare expansion is going
to be paid for with federal funds the first three years 100 percent.

MILLER: Yes, Medicaid.

SCHULTZ: Medicaid, Medicaid.

(CROSSTALK)

DEAN: I`d like to hear what George says about this, because this is a
critical piece, and I think Congress is going to have to deal with that.
That`s the one thing I worry about.

SCHULTZ: The Medicaid expansion, 100 percent paid for the first three
years.

MILLER: For three years and then it goes down to 90 percent, over,
goes to 97, 94 --

SCHULTZ: So, how are Republicans going to say no to that money?

MILLER: I don`t think they are. This is the highest reimbursement
level, you know, participation, cost sharing that they`ve had from the
federal government in history, and I think very clearly that this is very
helpful to the governors getting these people covered, because otherwise,
these unreimbursed costs are laid off on to the state taxpayer or to the
hospitals and their users or to the insured.

So, this is very helpful to the governors. I know philosophically a
handful won`t like it, they`ll be showing up to ask for the program.

SCHULTZ: Well, I know both of you gentlemen have dedicated your
careers to doing something about health care in this country and something
really got done today. Congressman George Miller and Howard Dean -- great
to have you with us tonight on THE ED SHOW. Thanks so much.

DEAN: Thanks very much.

SCHULTZ: Remember to answer tonight`s question there at the bottom of
the screen. Share your thoughts on Twitter @EdShow. We want to know what
you think.

Up next, my exclusive interview with Nancy Pelosi, who takes a real
whack at Mitt Romney. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCHULTZ: Coming up, my exclusive interview with House Democratic
leader Nancy Pelosi. Hear her thoughts on today`s ruling, on Mitt Romney`s
reaction to the ruling, and the future of single payer, which is what
Democrats really want.

Later, Democrats walk out on Darrell Issa`s witch hunt and the
attorney general is fighting back. Congressman Keith Ellison left in
Capitol in protest today and he is here with me tonight.

Share your thoughts on Twitter using the #EdShow. We are coming right
back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCHULTZ: Welcome back to THE ED SHOW. This is a big day for
President Obama and the progressive movement in this country.

But it would have never happened if it had not been for the speaker of
the House at the time who never gave up.

Democratic Leader Nancy Pelosi sat down with me for an exclusive
interview just hours after the ruling today. I asked her if she feels
vindicated after fighting so hard for reform.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PELOSI: I don`t know if "vindicated" is the word. I`m really very,
very happy. I always knew -- I always thought this would be upheld. This
is about, you know, people said, oh, yes, people suffer because politically
because of this vote.

I think the election of 2010 was about 9.5 percent unemployment, $200
million was spent misrepresenting the health care bill. Nine and a half
percent unemployment, it`s hard to get through that shield to explain
anything.

But our members felt proud of what they did. We feel that we stand in
the ranks of those who passed Social Security, Medicare, and now, health
care for all Americans as a right, not a privilege.

So we came to do a job and now we`re glad that the court upholds it.

SCHULTZ: There`s a lot of Americans out there that stood with you on
health care. They are not in the Congress today. The Tea Party ran
against them, the Tea Party went after them on this health care bill.

What do you say to them, was that a courageous vote?

PELOSI: They stood very strong, and I`ve heard from most of them
today. After the election when we met, they said I would never reverse my
vote on health care for any reason. That`s what I came there to do.

SCHULTZ: What are the next four months going to be like coming into
the election? Mr. Boehner just said over in this other press conference
that the American people are going to have to decide whether they want this
or not.

PELOSI: I think the decision has been made. The more people who are
taking advantage of the health care reform, some of the provisions that are
already in effect, know how important it is to them, whether it`s pre-
existing conditions, staying on your parents` plan, whether it`s lower-cost
drugs, prescription drugs for seniors, those kinds of issues.

And the more people know what it means to them, the more popular the
bill will be, no matter what the other side says.

SCHULTZ: Listening to Mitt Romney today, he`s clearly going to run
against this. Is this a political winner?

PELOSI: I think, listening to Mitt Romney today, I was confused,
because it was as if he was for it before he was against it, and now he`s
both. He supports the decision of the court to overturn the entire bill
and yet he said, but if they do that, you still cannot be discriminated on
the basis of pre-existing medical conditions.

How`s that happen?

SCHULTZ: Yes.

PELOSI: Is he going to pay for it? Maybe he`s volunteering, but the
fact is, you cannot have it both ways.

SCHULTZ: President Obama said today that this is going to reduce
cost. President Obama said today that this is going to save the country
money.

PELOSI: That`s right.

SCHULTZ: In the other room, the Republicans are saying that, no, this
is going to blow up the deficit and the CBO scores it as a financial winner
over the long haul. Who`s telling the truth?

PELOSI: Well, first of all, when we did the bill, one of the main
purposes of the bill, in addition to the right of people to have access to
health care, the cost of health care in our country was totally
unsustainable, for individuals, for families, for businesses large and
small, for governments -- state, local, and federal budgets, and for our
economy, because the health care costs are as competitive in this issue.

So, lowering cost was an essential part of how we went down this path,
but also it has built into it, studies from the institute of medicine, et
cetera, to say we have to make choices in care that are about volume -- not
about volume, but value, not volume; quality, not quantity of procedures;
addressing regional disparities -- all of that technical, but nonetheless
substantial in terms of cost.

SCHULTZ: But they say it`s not cost efficient and they are going to
run on that.

PELOSI: Well, you know what? We`ll just have to have that debate,
because what they want is insurance companies to have their way. I mean,
it`s just what it is. You have a combination of health insurance industry
and the anti-government ideologues who go out there and fight against this
bill.

What they want is for the insurance companies -- had a good gig, huh,
they could charge anything, ever increase the cost, you get sick, you use
your policy and then if you`re -- you can even have your policy rescinded
on the way to the operating room.

SCHULTZ: So, they spent a lot money telling the American people that
this is not good.

PELOSI: Yes.

SCHULTZ: And the next four months is going to be important messaging
to the American people that this is good.

PELOSI: Yes. But I think elections are always about jobs. They`re
always about jobs. So, that`s really what the debate will be.

SCHULTZ: Well, they call it a job killer.

PELOSI: It creates 4 millions. Health insurance -- health insurance
is the fastest growing entity in our economy.

SCHULTZ: So, it`s not a job killer.

PELOSI: It`s not. It creates 4 million jobs. It reduces the
deficit. It lowers cost to individuals. It improves quality and expands
coverage.

SCHULTZ: Your thoughts on Chief Justice Roberts` decision.

PELOSI: Chief Justice Roberts` decision I believe is consistent with
his writings and his pronouncements in the past about the extent of the
Supreme Court`s rule in passing on constitutionality.

That`s why I always seven, I mean, 6-3, I anticipate we could possibly
get Kennedy. But I was wrong. But we did win, and I was right on that.

SCHULTZ: You had very emotional phone call this morning with Vicki
Kennedy?

PELOSI: I did. I call Vicki as soon as we knew to make sure Vicki
because I didn`t know she had the TV on. And I called Vicki and I said,
you know, thank you, congratulations. And she was saying the same thing
back to me.

I said to her, I said, you know, we all know that this would not have
happened without Teddy. It was his life`s work. It was called the great
unfinished of our country. Now, finally, Teddy, as far as health care is
concerned, can rest in peace.

SCHULTZ: But how do you feel that you`re going to be remembered as
the speaker that went back in and saved it? I remember a conversation I
had with Robert Gibbs, he says we`re not going to get health care. And a
few days later, you went in and revived it.

PELOSI: I never -- it was never a thought in my mind that we wouldn`t
have it. I don`t care what anybody else had to say about it.

SCHULTZ: You were going to do it.

PELOSI: We were going to do it. We had that urgency, we had the
value, we had the votes, and we were going to make it happen.

Some of the -- you know, one of these days in conversation, we can
talk about those who wanted to wait until we could get 60 votes and I was
saying, I`m going 51.

SCHULTZ: Finally, is this Kennedy-like? It didn`t get everything,
but you got a -- you know, you got a great start and you got some great
things. That was kind of his philosophy, take what you can get and move it
forward.

PELOSI: We got much more than that. We got much more than that.
Yes, Teddy was a person who said, you know, you have to see a victory and
recognize it when it is in sight.

I wanted to have a bill that accomplished the same things as a single
payer or a public option would do. Even if we couldn`t get the votes in
the Senate to do the public option, and I believe we did that. I think we
would have saved more money if we had the public option, and I think that -
- but I think that our purposes are served by this, and if it enabled us to
go forward, then so be it.

One of these days, I do still believe that the decision -- the
judgment will be made maybe by states about their doing single payer on
their own and the rest. But in the meantime, as far as meeting the needs
of individuals and families, we`re there and as I keep saying, as far as
our families are concerned, the best is yet to come.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SCHULTZ: Coming up, the witch hunt about Republican Congressman
Darrell Issa came to a ridiculous political peak today. Congressman Keith
Ellison of Minnesota joins me.

And also, Congressman Mike Pence compared today`s health care ruling
to 9/11? Karen Finney will weigh in on the Republican reaction. Stay
tuned. Be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. NANCY PELOSI (D), MINORITY LEADER: I think the action by the
Republicans is contemptible. I think they thought it was going to go their
way and they`d have like a one-two punch. They might have a one-two punch,
but it might be coming their way.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Welcome back to THE ED SHOW. That was part of what House
Democratic Leader Nancy Pelosi had to say about the farce that took place
on the House floor today. For the first time in American history, a
cabinet member was held in contempt of Congress by the full House of
Representatives.

The criminal contempt vote against Attorney General Eric Holder passed
with 238 Republicans and 17 Democrats. Two Republicans voted against it.
The civil contempt vote passed by similar margins, all led by Republican
Congressman Darrell Issa and his House Oversight Committee.

The Congressional Black Caucus led a walk-out, and they were joined by
most Democrats in protesting this ugly political ploy.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. JAMES CLYBURN (D), SOUTH CAROLINA: This is not about oversight.
This is about overkill. We`re here to say today that we believe that
there`s something evil about using the procedures of the House, especially
something as severe as holding someone in contempt of Congress to further
political aims. It`s not why the American people sent us here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: The criminal contempt citation will now be referred to a
U.S. attorney to decide whether his boss, the Attorney General Eric Holder,
is a criminal. This is not likely to happen. The civil contempt charge is
referred to a federal judge to decide if Holder must turn over more
documents. Today, Attorney General Eric Holder called this for what it is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ERIC HOLDER, U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: Today`s vote may make for good
political theater in the minds of some, but it is at base both a crass
effort and a grave disservice to the American people. It`s clear that they
were not interested in bringing an end to this dispute, or even obtaining
the information they say they wanted.

Ultimately, their goal was the vote that, with the help of special
interests, they now have engineered. A great deal of work for the American
people remains to be done. I`m going to be getting back to it. I suggest
that those who orchestrated today`s vote do the same.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Let`s turn to Congressman Keith Ellison of Minnesota, co-
chair of the Congressional Progressive Caucus. Strange day at the office.
I think the Republicans thought they were going to be two and zero. They
lost the ruling and then, of course, they did get this. Political stunt,
no doubt. How furious are Democrats over this?

REP. KEITH ELLISON (D), MINNESOTA: Well, I think that we`re
disgusted. I think that`s the main prevailing emotion. You know, of
course, we`re angry, but it`s -- when you see somebody misuse the political
process this way to score a cheap political point -- and here`s the other
thing, I was talking to some of the people who were voting for it. They
said that the NRA, the National Rifle Association, scored it, which means
they are going to get you if you don`t go their way. So that was
unfortunate.

The attorney general alluded to special interests. That`s the special
interests that`s at work here.

SCHULTZ: You think the NRA intimidated the 17 Democrats?

ELLISON: Yes, I think there`s very little doubt of it. In fact, I
challenge them to deny it. They made it very clear it would be a scored
vote. And you know, look, they have a monopoly on the conversation around
guns. And their logic`s convoluted, though, because what they seem to
suggest is that their vote against Holder would -- because they thought
that this -- that this might bring forth gun control legislation or might
justify gun control legislation.

SCHULTZ: That`s bogus.

ELLISON: Well, it`s absurd. But, you know, it proves that they have
been so successful on Capital Hill, they have to go look for people to
fight with.

SCHULTZ: Here`s more from Leader Nancy Pelosi and Eric Holder today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PELOSI: Their premise is false. I contend that it has more to do
with tying the hands of the attorney general`s responsibilities to stop the
voter suppression that is out there.

HOLDER: Challenging proposed voting changes and redistricting maps
that would potentially disenfranchise millions of voters. Some of these
enforcement decisions were not politically popular and helped to explain
the actions that were taken today by the House.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Holder was a class act today. I think he handled it about
as good as he could handle it. Congressman, you have a lot of work to do
yet in the House, the transportation bill. You still haven`t done student
loans. The Senate`s done it. How`s it going to be like working with these
Republicans under this situation?

ELLISON: Well, you know, it`s ridiculous. We just go week after week
after week where they don`t put any jobs legislation. They are letting the
costs of an education go up. They are not dealing with transportation,
which if we don`t get this thing done, it`s going to cause layoffs all over
the country. It reminds me of their malfeasance on the FAA bill last year,
where they let -- they let all those people get out of work and they let
all the costs mount.

It is -- it is legislative malpractice and that`s all I can call it.

SCHULTZ: Back to the National Rifle Association, if I may. Why can`t
Democrats get in caucus and say this -- here`s what we say, I`m not going
to vote for contempt and I`m not going to take your firearm?

ELLISON: Well, you know what, if they would -- if we`re dealing with
rational people, I think we`d be in a different space. But look, we`ve had
a rash of very serious things happen with guns in this country, not the
least of which is the tragedy in Tucson. And yet you don`t see any major
gun control legislation moving forward.

Why? Because these people have got a stranglehold and I think -- I`m
not speculating. I was told on good authority that that is why many of the
people voted the way they did, because they feared -- because this was a
scored vote by the NRA.

SCHULTZ: Congressman Keith Ellison, thanks for joining us tonight,
appreciate it so much.

There`s a lot more coming up in the next half hour of THE ED SHOW,
Stay with us.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m angry, mad at Chief Justice John Roberts.

REP. MICHELE BACHMANN (R), MINNESOTA: For my mind, this is clearly
unconstitutional.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: The far right wing reaction to the Supreme Court gets out of
control. Congressman Mike Pence of Indiana compares today`s ruling to
9/11.

Up next, Karen Finney on the political fallout for the president and
the people who can`t stand him.

And what does today`s ruling mean for the American middle class?

I brought my health care bill to Washington. On your kitchen table,
I`m getting the same thing. I have been on this story since day one.
Tonight, my look at how today`s ruling will change America forever.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: I know a lot of coverage through this health care debate has
focused on what it means politically. Well, it should be pretty clear by
now that I didn`t do this because it was good politics. I did it because I
believed it was good for the country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: President Obama earlier reacting to the Supreme Court`s
decision to uphold the Affordable Care Act. The Republicans had a slightly
different reaction to today`s ruling. Congressman Jack Kingston summed up
his emotions this way: "with the Obamacare ruling, I feel like I just lost
two great friends, America and Justice Roberts."

It seems like Kingston and his fellow Republicans are going through, I
guess you could say, the five stages of grief. First, Congresswoman Jean
Schmidt was clearly in denial when she got some bad intel from inside the
courtroom.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(CROSS TALK)

REP. JEAN SCHMIDT (R), OHIO: Oh, my gosh! No! They took it away?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: After denial comes anger.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m angry, mad at Chief Justice John Roberts.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think it`s important to look at Justice Kagan
for potential impeachment.

REP. JOHN BOEHNER (R), HOUSE SPEAKER: The government could decide
we`re going to tax you if you don`t eat broccoli on Tuesday. Apparently,
that`s not Constitutional.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Freedom is under assault here. They are taking
away Americans` freedom.

BACHMANN: This is the first time anything like this has happened.
This is a turning point in American history. We will never be the same
again.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Anger then turns into bargaining.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BOEHNER: I think the real outcome of today`s decision is to
strengthen our resolve to make sure that this law is, in fact, repealed.

SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R), MINORITY LEADER: Republicans won`t let up
whatsoever in our determination to repeal this terrible law.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Bargaining gives way to depression.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. PHIL GINGREY (R), GEORGIA: Well, I`m not very happy. In fact,
I`m surprised. Shocked is a better word, bitterly disappointed.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: And finally, acceptance.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GINGREY: I`m disappointed, but you know what, I`ve got a smile on my
face, because I think this is going to elect Mitt Romney, the 45th
president of the United States.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: One problem with that, Romneycare paved the way for
Obamacare. But now that he`s running for president, Mitt Romney says he`s
against what he was once for. Romney argues it was legal for Massachusetts
to require a mandate, but it`s illegal to require a mandate at the federal
level because it violates the Constitution.

Today`s decision from Roberts, the Roberts court takes away that
argument. So now the GOP is adopting a new tactic, reframing the debate.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R), SOUTH CAROLINA: The issue is not about
health care anymore. It`s about taxes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The president said it was not a tax. It is a tax
on the American people.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s a tax increase. Millions of Americans may
now have an IRS problem.

GOV. RICK PERRY (R), TEXAS: I kind of feel like I`m watching that old
movie "the Godfather," and the American people looked the Godfather in the
face and he said I`m going to make you an offer you can`t refuse. That
offer is you`re going to buy you my insurance. And if you don`t, I`m going
to tax you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: I`m joined now by Karen Finney, MSNBC political analyst and
former DNC communications director. Well, let`s go to your expertise as a
communications director. They turned this into a tax.

KAREN FINNEY, MSNBC POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes, they`re sure trying it.
But you know, Ed, here`s the problem, they are going to explain and Romney
is going to have to explain why he imposed a tax on the good people of
Massachusetts, right. Again, something he was for, now he`s against.
That`s already a narrative we know people don`t like.

SCHULTZ: The GOP has been saying for years that President Obama
doesn`t respect the Constitution. Now one of their guys has said, well,
you know what, his law is constitutional. How much of a problem is that
for them on the trail?

FINNEY: That`s a big problem for Republicans. You know the other
thing, Ed, think about how many times conservatives, Tea Partiers,
Birthers, have tried to undermine the authority of this president. And we
had a number of decisions, two very important ones this week, that
reaffirmed the authority of the federal government and the decisions of
this president and Democrats.

SCHULTZ: OK, Congressman Mike Pence, he likened it to 9/11. Are we
going to hear more of this stuff? Is this stuff going to work with the
head shaking crowd?

FINNEY: Sure, they are going to do everything they can -- we saw some
of it on Fox News already, trying to whip people up and get those crowds
back out there. But here`s the problem, Ed, now they are going to have to
campaign on why they are going to have to take something away from you,
from your child, from your mother or father.

SCHULTZ: What kind of summer are we going to see? Is this going to
revive the Tea Party demonstrations and the rallies and what not? Is this
health care law, even though it`s been ruled by the Supreme Court to be
Constitutional and legal -- what opening does this leave the Tea Party, if
any?

FINNEY: Hopefully, it doesn`t. Democrats can`t let the Tea Party
have any opening. And what I hope we see is Democrats vigorously -- let`s
put Republicans on defense for a change on this issue, and again make them
explain why they are going to take something away from the American people.
We also have a new opportunity to talk about what`s in this law and what
benefits people.

SCHULTZ: Can the president talk about this enough on the campaign
trail?

FINNEY: No. He`s got to keep talking, because here`s the thing, it`s
a personal issue. It`s a family issue. It`s an economic issue. It ties
into everything. so I think the president`s got to talk about it. And I
hope down ballot candidates, Democrats, will also keep talking about.

SCHULTZ: I think the Republicans are really hurting themselves
politically on this contempt vote. And I think the 17 Democrats that did
it are going to end up paying a political price as well, even though the
NRA is so powerful and they scored it. How do you see this politically
playing out? Is this a two or three day story or does this play through to
something that the Democrats aren`t going to forget happened?

FINNEY: I think that Democratic voters, the base of this party, are
not going to forget that this happened. They are not going to forget how
shameful this is. And already I`ve seen people talking about how they are
never going to support those 17 Democrats ever again. So it was a pretty
shameful day for the Republican-led Congress.

SCHULTZ: Thanks for coming in, Karen. Appreciate it so much.

Coming up, today`s surprise court ruling is a great news for
Americans, but Republicans couldn`t disagree more. I`ll weigh in on
today`s historic decision. Stay tuned.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCHULTZ: And in the big finish tonight, no doubt a big day for
America. When I first came here to MSNBC, in fact, I was in this studio on
my very first show when I pulled out my health care bill and highlighted
the problem of skyrocketing health care costs for average Americans.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: You know what they are talking about out there across
America? Health care, health care, health care. In fact, I brought my
health care bill to Washington. Now, this is what Americans are putting up
with. It`s the economy. It`s jobs. But on your kitchen table, I`m
getting the same thing, an increase of 20 percent.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Three and a half years later, I have in my hand tonight the
latest Congressional Budget Office projection of a health care bill that
will save Americans money, bring down costs, and cover more than 33 million
people. That`s progress.

I was on the Hill today, and there was a tremendous amount of
jubilation, excitement, and a real sense of accomplishment for the
Democrats. The press briefing for the Republicans was like somebody died,
a morgue, and a lot of bad mouthing going on.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BOEHNER: The real outcome of today`s decision is to strengthen our
resolve to make sure that this law is, in fact, repealed.

REP. ERIC CANTOR (R), MAJORITY LEADER: The decision today really
indicates we have entered an age in which the government, Washington, will
be controlling health care, unless something changes.

REP. JEB HENSARLING (R), TEXAS: Today was not a good day for freedom.
It was not a good day for struggling American families who wish to keep the
health care that they have.

REP. KEVIN MCCARTHY (R), MAJORITY WHIP: The economy won`t be turning
around, because this health care bill actually harms the economy.

REP. TOM PRICE (R), GEORGIA: This law, just like yesterday -- it
hasn`t changed today. It violates every single principle that we hold dear
as a nation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: In the next four months, Americans will hear a lot of lies
about health care and what this bill does for this country. Let me tell
you the truth. More Americans will have health care. Costs will come
down. People`s lives won`t be destroyed because of an illness.

Democrats did all that. This decision today will help people. But
most importantly -- most importantly, it will save lives. It will save
lives. That`s no short order. I went to a free health care clinic six
times on assignment with this network. And I saw the same thing time and
time again, every time. I met people who hadn`t seen a doctor for 10
years, people with heart disease they didn`t know they had it, cancer,
stage four cancer -- she didn`t know she had it.

Diabetes, Americans who have never been to the dentist before. Let me
tell you something, when you go to a free health care clinic and you see
Americans leave their job to go to it over the noon hour so they can see
their first doctor in five years because they can`t afford health care, it
will change you. You know, in this business, broadcasting, sometimes we
get attached to things, people, places, things, happenings, events.

Recently, I got attached to Wisconsin. That didn`t work out very
well. I got attached to health care. And for those righties out there who
always say, how`s that hope and change thing working out for you, well, 33
million people tonight are saying, pretty good.

This is a huge lift. Every Democratic president since FDR wanted
health care done in this country. President Barack Obama got it done.
Nancy Pelosi got it done. The Democrats got it done. In the wake of
obstruction, they were able to deliver something that no other president
has been able to do for generations. And for generations to come, we will
see better health outcomes.

We will see healthier Americans. We will save lives. And I think
that`s the America I grew up in.

That`s THE ED SHOW. We won, and we`ll get more. "THE RACHEL MADDOW
SHOW" starts right now. Good evening, Rachel.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY
BE UPDATED.
END

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