The Ed Show for Sunday, August 18th, 2013
Read the transcript to the Sunday show
THE ED SHOW
August 18, 2013
Guests: Bernie Sanders, Keli Goff, Zerlina Maxwell, Corey Hebert
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Christie has built a record that I would say is
actually fairly moderate.
ED SCHULTZ, MSNBC HOST: He`s no different than the rest of these radical
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A wolf in sheep`s clothing.
GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE (R), NEW JERSEY: And I`ve said all along, I am a
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`s very much like a New Jersey version of Scott
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`s pro-life. He`s taken on unions. He`s given tax
cuts to the wealthiest residents in New Jersey. He`s cut government jobs.
CHRISTIE: You`ve got to be one arrogant SOB.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You can say that again.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Chris Christie apparently appears, at this moment, to
have a clear running lane.
ANN COULTER: We have somebody who is going to win.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You know, it`s another word for loser.
CHRISTIE: For our ideas to matter, we have to win.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just win baby.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: Yes. Yes. Yes. Democrats, liberals, we are in the Locker Room
Now, last night, I was preacher Ed. Tonight, I`m head coach Ed. And I`m
going to give you a scouting report. You`ve got to know who your opponent,
son. You`ve got to know who your opposition is.
Liberals, Democrats, you need to watch out for this guy right here. He`s
like that big old fullback that`s going to come right on up the middle,
going to give you a head fake then cut off to the every time. I guarantee
you he`s going to do it.
New Jersey Governor Chris Christie is the king of hoodwinking right now.
He is the rising star in the Republican Party. Believe it or not, he`s got
some Democrats up there in the stands ready to change their jerseys.
What the hell for?
People have been talking about Christie and a presidential run since the
day he went into the governor`s office.
Finally, Christie is starting to show his playbook a little bit.
Here`s what he had to say about the 2016 presidential election this week.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRISTIE: For our ideas to matter, we have to win, because if we don`t
win, we don`t govern. And if we don`t govern, all we do is shout into the
SCHULTZ: Oh, yes, a governor.
Is that a heavy emphasis on the word govern?
Does that mean that you are going to stand up to your party for a record
number of filibusters and the obstruction that they have done in Washington
and time and time again how they have gone after ObamaCare and also the way
they have obstructed every jobs package that`s been put on the table?
Is that governing?
Are you willing to do that?
Governor, did you go down to Washington and have lunch with the Republicans
and tell them, hey, you`ve got to knock off these filibusters, man. We`ve
got to get something done.
He knows nothing about governing. So that`s hoodwink number one.
Christie went on to say this quote: "I`m in this business to win. I don`t
know why you are in it. I`m in this to win."
He`s in this to win. "I`m in this business to win."
To win for who?
For you, Governor?
Or for the people?
Because if you care about the people, you will stand up strong and say that
your party is the party of obstruction. And your party is the party of
hate. And your party is the racist party.
That`s what it`s going to take. If you really want to govern, you have to
tell the truth.
You know, he`s not in the business to help the middle class, I can
guarantee you that. He`s not in the business to help workers and teachers,
Chris Christie is in this thing called politics to help him, Chris
Christie. And he`ll say whatever he has to, even if it means tearing down
hardworking Americans in the process.
But this is to typical for Republicans. They don`t have an ounce of truth
in them when it comes to workers in America.
So tonight, we are going to expose the real Chris Christie, the media
darling of New York City, the media darling of the mainstream media. He`s
done nothing wrong. He`s one of -- he`s really a moderate.
No, He`s a wolf in sheep`s clothing.
For reasons unknown to THE ED SHOW, some Democrats think that wrist -- that
Christie is a big bipartisan hero.
You know what this guy has done?
All right, hey, he walked with the president of the United States. He
appeared with the president after Hurricane Sandy.
What governor wouldn`t do that?
He accepted federal disaster relief. That`s the right thing to do as a
governor, along with every other Republican governor whose state has ever
been hit by a hurricane.
This makes him bipartisan?
Make no mistake, a photo-op with President Obama does not make Chris
Christie bipartisan. Accepting disaster relief, which was the right thing
to do, does not make Chris Christie bipartisan.
Don`t let him fool you. Christie is as bad as the rest of these radical
governors. He`s no different than the rest of these radical governors
across this country who are trashing jobs and trashing programs to help the
downtrodden in this country, who`s attacking education. In order to
understand who Christie really is, it`s important to remember -- let`s
remember, where did this guy come from?
Well, Chris Christie is a disciple of George W. Bush. That`s right.
He is a Bush crony. "The New York Times" reported that Christie raised
hundreds of thousands of dollars for Bush`s 200 presidential campaign.
You know, the one they stole down in Florida?
Nowhere, OK -- then out of nowhere, Bush appoints Chris Christie to be the
U.S. attorney for the State of New Jersey in 2001. And so with the swipe
of a pen, Christie, he goes from lawyer to lobbyist to U.S. attorney. And,
of course, back in those days, it kind of paid to be a Bush bootlicker.
Now, the next stop was the governor`s chair for Chris Christie. He had
very little political experience, but his bombastic Jersey guy tough style
personality won him the governor`s seat against an embattled incumbent.
And that was Jon Corzine.
Now, Christie`s lack of experience shows in his job performance.
First, Christie he doesn`t act like a governor.
Does your governor act like this?
Have you seen any presidents act like this?
He acts like a schoolyard bully, is what he does. And we`ve seen it many
times. The governor seems to take joy in just belittling citizens.
Does this guy pay taxes?
Does he deserve to be treated like that?
Oh, wait a minute, I guess it`s his fault, not Christie`s fault.
Let me tell you something, he goes after anybody who doesn`t agree with
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why don`t you tell...
CHRISTIE: And you know what?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) the truth?
CHRISTIE: Let me tell you -- all right, let me tell you this. You know
what, it`s people who raise their voices and yell and scream like you that
are dividing this country.
If what you want to do is put on a show and giggle every time I talk, well,
then I have no interest in answering your question.
Let me tell you something, I can go back and forth with you as much as you
And let me tell you something, after you graduate from law school, you
conduct yourself like that in a courtroom, your rear-end is going to get
thrown in jail, idiot.
You know, something may go down tonight, but it ain`t going to be jobs,
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: You know, it says a lot about a man who talks down the hard-
working teachers of this country without microphones.
Christie also really treats women with contempt. He said someone should,
quote, "Take a bat out on a 78-year-old state senator, Loretta Weinberg.
Plus, we all remember this heated exchange.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You don`t send your children to public schools, you
send them to private schools. So I was wondering why you think it`s fair
to be cutting school funding to public schools.
CHRISTIE: Yes, you know what, first off, it`s none of your business. I
don`t ask you where you`re sending your kids to school. Don`t bother me
about where I send mine.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: Yes, he doesn`t have any responsibility to the taxpayers. In
other words, there are some questions that are just totally off limits
because he`s Chris Christie. Aside from being kind of a mean person,
Christie`s radical policies are pretty much par for the course, don`t you
He`s given New Jersey`s biggest corporations a tax cut of $1.5 billion. At
the same time, he`s hurting New Jersey`s working families by cutting the
Earned Income Tax Credit, which nobody really talks about.
He is relentlessly attacking New Jersey`s teachers. He`s cut funding for
community colleges. He has cut teacher tenure after they have earned it.
And he has made a career out of fighting with every union he can find,
especially the teachers union. There just happen to be 6,000 lousy
teachers in New Jersey. He got rid of them.
He`s cut $7.5 million from women`s health programs. We don`t hear about
that. He`s cut service for New Jersey`s senior citizens by the total of
$21 million. We never hear about that. He`s such a nice guy.
In just this week, Christie reversed his position and vetoed a ban on .50
Phew, .50 caliber rifles?
These hummers are made for one thing, and that`s war and killing folks.
So just to put it in perspective, if I may, this is a .50 caliber shell.
And this is a .9 millimeter bullet right here. Now, let me tell you
something, this gun is no joke.
SCHULTZ: He`s a righty. He`s afraid of the NRA.
Christie thinks it`s just fine to have these kinds of weapons of war
floating around, you know, the most densely populated state in the country.
Now, I could go on for hours about how Chris Christie is bad for New
Jersey, bad for America and a big phony on a lot of different issues. But
this is the last reason -- and this is the kicker.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRISTIE: My favorite football team is not the New York Giants.
CHRISTIE: It`s not the New York Jets.
CHRISTIE: And it`s not -- and it`s not the Philadelphia Eagles. No. Get
ready now. My favorite football team are the Dallas Cowboys.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: Well, I tell you what, never trust a Cowboys fan from New Jersey,
You know, I`m going to save you the trouble of blaming me for playing the
race card. Full disclosure tonight, I`m going to play the race card, OK?
So don`t waste any breath or time or efforts saying, you know, Ed Schultz
is playing the race card. Yes, I am. I`m playing the race card right now,
because race is important. It is a very important topic. It is huge to
this country. If we`re going to move forward, we have to have these
conversations. So I`m going to play the race card.
If the president of the United States acted the way this man acts in a
crowd and acts the way he treats people, I bet that they would be calling
President Obama an angry black man. They would be saying that, well,
President Obama is not acting presidential.
Do you think Chris Christie is acting presidential?
Do you really think that this guy has the demeanor?
He has the political moxie, I`ll give him that.
But does he have the demeanor?
Does he have a fly off the handle temper, the kind of guy that you want to
answer that 3:00 a.m. call?
Is he good to workers?
Is he good to seniors?
Is he a phony politico?
Yes. He`s just like the rest of them.
Get your cell phones out. I want to know what you think.
Tonight`s question, does Chris Christie have the right temperament to be
Text A for yes, text B for no to 67622. You can always go to our blog at
ed.msnbc.com and leave a comment there. You may disagree with me. He may
be the star.
We`ll bring you the results later on in the show.
For more, let`s turn to Democratic strategist, Bob Shrum -- Bob, good to
have you with us tonight.
BOB SHRUM, DC STRATEGIST: Glad to be here, Ed.
SCHULTZ: Have we seen a president, not in my -- that I can remember in my
lifetime -- that has a habit of flying off the handle and just berating
I mean would this be -- if Chris Christie were a presidential candidate,
would this be a new sort of blood?
SHRUM: Well, not in public. I mean presidents have tempers and they lose
their temper. They don`t generally do it when they`re out talking with
voters. You want to give the sense that you`re listening to people, that
you`re actually paying attention to them, that you`re going to respond to
And I suspect that as this moves along, the people around Christie are
going to try to plain away some of this excess without losing what they
think is the essence of him, a kind of moxian style that appears -- appeals
Look, you can be interesting, you can be tough, you don`t have to be mean.
SCHULTZ: We played a number of clips there of him being pretty dogmatic
Does that politically play?
Is that popular today?
Is that what politicians have to do to show that they can tell it like it
Does that play for a long time?
SHRUM: I think, actually, as he gets into a general election, he`ll get in
trouble if he keeps acting that way. I don`t think he will act that way,
actually. I think they`ll get him under some control.
Look, he`s got two problems right now, Ed.
First of all, in the general election, a lot of stuff is going to be
exposed. You`re right, the most indelible image of him is with the
president after the hurricane. Ironically, that makes moderates think that
maybe he`s kind of OK. They like him for the enemies he made on the far
But he`s going to get exposed as a guy who`s got a populist style with no
populist substance. He stands four square with the Romney policies that
would help the 1 percent at the expense of the medical class.
SHRUM: He`s going to get exposed on social issues, he`s going to get
exposed on cutting education. All of that is going to hurt him in the
This is a -- what -- you`re -- the takedown you did tonight is a preview of
what he`s going to go through if he`s the Republican nominee.
SCHULTZ: Well, I`m not putting anything out there that isn`t true. And I
-- you know...
SCHULTZ: -- it is aggressive the way I`m going after it on this, but it`s
-- he -- it`s like he`s the media darling. He`s treated with kid gloves
wherever he goes. And then when he gets his back up, everybody backs off.
Now, I`ve asked the governor...
SCHULTZ: -- I met him at the White House Correspondents Dinner. I said,
why don`t you come on THE ED SHOW some time?
And he laughed at me. He doesn`t need to come on my program. And quite
honestly, I don`t need to interview him. I`ve got all the information on
Chris Christie that I need.
And I think the people need to get it, too.
I think he`s just as dangerous as these other radical governors that have
gone after workers and gone after public education and given all the tax
breaks to the wealthiest residents and also to the corporations to the tune
of $1.5 billion.
In many respects, he`s Bush all over again. And in many respects, he`s
SHRUM: He`s Romney repackaged, but the package at least at the beginning,
is much more attractive. People look at him and they see someone who is
kind of anti-political, someone who`s refreshing, someone who`s a moderate.
That may not be the reality, but that`s what they see.
Now, that`s part of his problem in the Republican Party, by the way.
You`re right, he`s anti-choice, but he has exceptions. He`s against
marriage equality, but he`s been kind of tolerate tolerant of civil unions.
He allowed the Medicaid expansion in New Jersey under ObamaCare.
So despite his Romney-like economic policies, he`s got real problems on the
SHRUM: That`s why he gave a speech this week saying, we have to be
pragmatic, we have to nominate someone who can win.
And right now, by the way, he probably is the strongest Republican
candidate, though I think he`s vulnerable in a general. And...
SCHULTZ: So what does...
SHRUM: And I`d much rather see...
SCHULTZ: -- bob, what does he mean when he says he`s in this business to
Does that mean I`ll say and do whatever I`ve got to do to appease people to
SHRUM: Well, I couldn`t quite understand that. I think he was saying to
the Republican Party, look, you can either make a statement, you can make
an ideological statement, you can somehow or other go out there and prove
you`re pure, or you can nominate someone like me and maybe win this
election. That`s the argument that he`s trying to make.
The funny thing about it was that line is in -- the exact same line Hillary
Clinton used at the opening of her 2008 race, when everybody thought she
was going to win...
SHRUM: -- I`m in it to win it. I think he`s going to have to tell voters
more than that. He`s going to have to tell primary voters more than that,
too. He`s going to have to give them a vision of where he wants to take
the country in the future, not just say, look at me. I might actually win.
SCHULTZ: Well, back to my opening statements. He used the word govern in
that sound bite. And I think that`s an interesting word.
Is he willing to step forward and side with the Republicans with all these
filibusters and side with their obstruction?
Or is he willing to step forward and tell these legislatures in Washington
on the right, you know what, we`ve got to compromise on some things?
Bob Shrum, great to have you with us tonight.
Thank so much for joining us.
Remember to answer tonight`s question there at the bottom of the screen.
Share your thoughts on Twitter @edshow and on Facebook. We always want to
know what you think.
Coming up, the country continues to advance Dr. King`s dream, as the 50th
anniversary of the March on Washington approaches. Senator Bernie Sanders
was there. He joins us with the memories of that event and what needs to
be done here forward.
And the author of who told women to lean in didn`t want to shell out cash
for interns. The Real Talk panel weighs in on the workplace hypocrisy and
more coming up.
Stay with us.
SCHULTZ: Liberals, progressives, workers, let`s get back to work. America
needs to pay attention and stay vocal. So let`s look at what`s ahead this
week in Fast Forward.
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Are you ready to go?
SCHULTZ: Number three, get on the bus.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DENZEL WASHINGTON, ACTOR: You and you, hop into the bus. Sit together.
You and you, (INAUDIBLE) bus, sit together. Get comfortable, too.
SCHULTZ: President Obama kicks off his education tour.
OBAMA: No family should have to set aside a college acceptance letter
because they don`t have the money.
MITT ROMNEY (R), FORMER U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: And, you know, I
wish I could tell you that there`s a place to find really cheap money or
free money so we could pay for everyone`s education. That`s just not going
OBAMA: Tackle rising costs.
ROMNEY: So I hope you shopped around...
OBAMA: Shake up the system.
ROMNEY: -- to get a good education. And hopefully, you`ll find that.
OBAMA: It is critical that we make sure that college is affordable for
every single American.
SANTORUM: President Obama once said he wants everybody in America to go to
What a snob.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m trying to earn money for college.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Your mom goes to college.
SCHULTZ: Fast forward to number two -- tea time in Texas.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: An effort to revive the move and to stop ObamaCare the
Heritage Action for America will host nine town hall meetings.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ted Cruz will be with us.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You are just dumber than a bag of hammers.
SCHULTZ: Ted Cruz and Jim DeMint join forces to brew up a stale strategy.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And we need to stand up and defund ObamaCare now.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stop ObamaCare.
SCHULTZ: And Saturday, advancing the dream -- civil rights leaders gather
for the March on Washington.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Now, 50 years after the `63 march, the need for
economic and political rights remain as strong as ever.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Organizing and mobilizing.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Continue to move forward, come together and reaffirm
the power -- the power of the people`s movement.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
SCHULTZ: Joining me now is Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont.
Folks, I want you to take a look at these pictures. This is Senator
Sanders 50 years ago in Chicago at a student sit-in for racial equality.
Senator, you were there for Martin Luther King`s "I Have A Dream" speech 50
years ago. It has to be a very memorable moment for you. This is proof
positive that you have been in the mix and an activist your whole life and
a fighter for people.
As you reflect back, how far have we come as a country and how far do we
have to go?
Good to have you with us, Senator.
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I), VERMONT: Well, it`s great to be with you, Ed.
And I think the answer to your question is mixed results. On one hand, I
think in terms of breaking down the barriers of segregation and
discrimination, we have made some significant progress.
I think that Martin Luther King would be very proud to see, today in the
United States, an African-American president who not only won in 2008, but
was re-elected in 2012, and with a pretty good vote.
And I think in terms of ending discrimination, he would be proud that women
today have a much greater presence in the political process than they had
when he was alive.
And there are other very significant gains in terms of beating down
segregation and legal discrimination.
On the other hand, I think sometimes politicians and the media kind of try
to sanitize King and ignore his very strong feelings about economic
justice. Remember, when King was assassinated in Memphis, Tennessee, it
wasn`t quote/unquote a civil rights demonstration. He was standing up for
workers trying to organize a union, workers trying to get decent wages and
decent working conditions.
And at the time that King died, just before he died, he was organizing a
Poor People`s March. And what he was saying to Congress is you are
spending billions of dollars on a war in Vietnam and you`re ignoring the
fact that we have millions of poor people in our country who are not
And King stood up and he said, you know what, I am a nonbeliever in
violence, but I am compelled to speak out against the violence in Vietnam.
So the bottom line is, I think since King`s death, we have made real
progress in beating down discrimination. But in terms of the issues of
economic justice, I would say that, in many ways, we`re worse off...
SANDERS: -- than we were when he was alive.
SCHULTZ: And, of course, there`s questions about our judicial system.
This summer alone, the Trayvon Martin story, the stop and frisk that`s
going on here in New York, which is a heated debate. We`re still not
working, in many respects, on a level playing field.
Is Washington doing enough to change that?
And, of course, it`s the era of obstruction there, but is there an
awareness in Washington that something needs to be done to mend a lot of
SANDERS: Well, the answer is an emphatic no. There is far too little
discussion about the collapse of the middle class, about the fact that we
have almost as much poverty today as at any time in the last 60 years,
almost no discussion at all about the incredible income and wealth
inequality in this country and the fact that we`re moving toward an
oligarchic form of society.
You know, when King was alive, he was talking about a radical distribution
of economic and political power.
SANDERS: That`s what he was talking about. He was organizing people to
bring that change.
No, Congress does not recognize that reality at all.
SCHULTZ: Well, since that era, we have seen a tremendous concentration of
wealth. We have seen a separation of income inequality. The chart which
we use quite often on this program tells a mammoth story for this country.
So what does the future hold in seeing that we keep radical legislators
away from attacking minority rights?
And I guess maybe the best way to ask that question is, what do you think
Martin Luther King would be saying about what has unfolded in Detroit,
where local elections have been circumvented and a city manager has been
put in place almost with dictatorial power?
SANDERS: Well, I think obviously, he would be very concerned. He would be
outraged today that in America, black youth unemployment is close to 40
percent and real unemployment in this country is 14 percent.
When that -- he talked about and led and moved toward that March on
Washington, that Poor People`s March at the time that he died. What he was
talking about is an economy of full employment, massive investment in job
creation, and not just for African-Americans. He was bringing together
Hispanics, poor whites. And he was saying we have got to stand together
against the big money interests and create an economy that works for all
And too often, Ed, we forget about that aspect of Martin Luther King Jr..
and we simply focus on his enormously effective work in desegregating
But he was also a very, very strong proponent of economic justice. We
can`t forget about that.
SCHULTZ: And I`ve got to ask you, finally, Senator, that day, what was the
If you had to capture the emotion in your memory about what that day was
like, what would you say?
SANDERS: Enormous optimism, enormous excitement. The fact that so many
people of all colors, of all ages, came together in Washington dc. That
was unprecedented up until that point. The King speech was extraordinary.
I think people left that event feeling proud and very hopeful about the
SCHULTZ: All right. Senator Bernie Sanders, appreciate you being on the
There`s so much.
All the best, my friend.
Unpaid interns come under fire, come under scrutiny, after one
organization`s hypocritical move. The Real Talk panel gives their take
And later, while Republicans continue to spread ObamaCare lies, doctors
work overtime to spread the truth.
Dr. Corey Herbert joins me to discuss how simple the law really is.
But next, I`m taking your questions. Ask Ed live is next.
Stay with us.
SCHULTZ: Welcome back to THE ED SHOW.
We love hearing from our viewers, my favorite segment, Ask Ed Live.
The first question tonight comes from Team Ed Show Tweeter. I didn`t even
know this -- we had a Team Ed Show, but I guess we do. A Tweeting world
"Besides voting, what else can be done to reduce GOP entrenchment in the
Keep the conversation alive and be willing to speak up. That`s what it
I will be in Birmingham, Alabama on Friday night at the Sheraton Hotel in
Birmingham, holding an ED SCHULTZ SHOW radio town hall meeting. We`re
going to be talking about jobs. We`re going to be talking about education
and health care. You`re welcome to show up. It`s open to the public.
But I do believe that. I believe that the conversation has to be held in
every community and we have to be proud for what we stand for.
Our next question comes from Judy: "How do we get money out of politics?"
Well, I don`t think you`re ever going to get money out of politics. Money
is always going to be in politics. I assume you`re asking about campaign
I do believe that if the Democrats were to get the majority in the House
and to get to a filibuster-proof Senate and a Democratic president, I think
that you would see campaign finance reform, which would reduce the num --
the amount of money that`s in politics today.
And I have always said this -- this is kind of heresy because we sell
commercials in the commercial electronic business, but I`ve always believed
that it is the obligation of licensed facilities of the FCC to give up air
time -- free air time -- to officials who are running in positions of
I mean, that`s what we`re all about, isn`t it, public service?
I don`t think you`re ever going to get money out of politics. I do believe
that campaign finance reform could be a reality if the right party gets
control. There`s a lot more coming up on THE ED SHOW.
SCHULTZ: It`s good to have you back with us.
Thanks for watching THE ED SHOW.
Facebook made chief operating officer, Sheryl Sandberg, one of the most
powerful women in the world. Facebook shares made Sandberg a whopping $90
million earlier this month.
And a Facebook post made Sandberg the subject of some serious backlash last
It started when Jessica Bennett, leain.org-ezer at large, took to her
Facebook page to post a call for an intern to work. And it read like this:
"Part-time, unpaid and able to commit to a regular schedule through end of
Let`s be clear, unpaid internships are nothing new. But this is a non-
profit founded on Sandberg`s feminism in the workplace manifest, "Lean In."
It`s a book that encourages it`s a book that encourages women to pursue
their goals, strive for executive positions and demand fair pay.
So you can probably understand that the critics, who called it hypocritical
to ask contributors to do unpaid work.
The group has since back peddled.
Rachel Thomas, who is leanin.org`s president, released a statement on
Facebook. She announced the group`s plan to launch a formal paid
Joining me now is Keli Goff, special correspondent for theroot.com, and
Zerlina Maxwell, contributor to The Griot.
Well, here we go again. Cheap labor -- how embarrassing is this, Keli?
KELI GOFF, THEROOT.COM: It was hugely embarrassing. And the way we know
it was hugely embarrassing is because a leanin.org spokesperson called me
at 11:00 the night that the story broke to try to sort of explain their
side of things.
SCHULTZ: Well, you`ve written a lot about it.
GOFF: Yes, for "The Washington Post," (INAUDIBLE) the People blog. And
what was, you know, interesting is that they knew that they had stepped in
it. And the way we know that they stepped in it -- they knew they stepped
it in, Ed, is because within 24 hours, Rachel Thomas had came out with a
different statement, saying that they had done an about-face and they
recognized the importance of being fair and opening up the doors to people
I am a kid who would not have the career that I have had someone not taken
a chance on me and given me a paid internship, because I`m not from a
privileged background and I would not have had the opportunities I`ve had
if people had not recognized the inherent inequality in giving kids an
opportunity to only work for free. The only people who can afford to to
deficit have rich parents. I don`t have rich parents. A lot of kids don`t
have rich parents.
SCHULTZ: Zerlina, your thoughts on this?
I mean is this a classic example of those who have been fortunate enough
need to open up avenues for others?
ZERLINA MAXWELL, @ZERLINAMAXWELL: Absolutely. You cannot lean in when you
don`t have money, right?
So if you were -- if she wants everybody to lean in and strive and ask for
equal pay and be assertive in the workplace, you need to have money in
order to get ahead. That is part of the problem. I mean, I think unpaid
internships -- clearly what Kelly said is absolutely correct, that only the
privileged are able to do something unpaid.
SCHULTZ: Unpaid internships -- does this harden the fight for equal pay
MAXWELL: Absolutely. And I think, you know, we were just talking in the
green room, because there`s a lot of talk about paycheck fairness. And I
think that, you know, the idea that women don`t ask and the fact that women
are getting paid and they don`t know that they`re getting paid less than
their male counterparts. And that is a huge problem. We need
transparency. We need to be paying people for working. Free labor is not
OK and it`s not something that we should be promoting, particularly when
you have a book about it.
GOFF: And it is part of a larger conversation, too. Because not only have
unpaid internships become the norm, let me just tell you something that I
mentioned in my column. Valentino, the fashion house, along with a few
others, have actually begun auctioning off internships, meaning that
wealthy parents can bid for the privilege of their kids working for free.
My parents didn`t have an extra $25,000 lying around so I could go work for
someone else for free. And the fact that they didn`t recognize this and
then Sheryl`s organization didn`t recognize not all of us can do that
speaks to the larger issue of income inequality in this country.
SCHULTZ: So how does...
GOFF: It`s not intentional, it`s obliviousness.
How does Sheryl Sandberg make it right?
GOFF: She -- they`re trying. They actually said that they (INAUDIBLE) ---
SCHULTZ: But her instinct was, nah, unpaid internships are OK.
GOFF: Again, and it`s the non-maliciousness, it`s the obliviousness...
GOFF: -- which is almost just as bad.
GOFF: And so the next day, they said that they are going to have a paid
internship program. And I say bravo to them for at least getting it,
hearing the criticism as opposed to burying their heads in the sand.
SCHULTZ: Should there be legislation that deals with this?
MAXWELL: Absolutely. I think, you know, there is a big activist push to
stop this process of unpaid internships, because only the privileged can do
that. And then you`re setting up a structural barrier for people to get
ahead and to become CEO, because they don`t have the experience right out
of college or during college, because you have to go go get -- take a job
to pay your rent and your bills. And if your -- if your family is auction
-- paying for you to get an internship, you`re -- I mean the process is
SCHULTZ: Setting up the internship program to pay people, as far as
Sandberg is concerned, is one thing.
But doesn`t she have somewhat of a leadership responsibility herself to
speak out and make an issue of this and make other people of wealth, who
are in a position to help others, realize that this is a real mistake and
this is a problem and this is part of the educational process?
GOFF: Well -- and this is part of the best thing to come out of this.
People, a lot of times, accuse me of writing things just to cause trouble.
And that`s really not my intention. It`s to spark a conversation.
I genuinely believe, because I`ve heard from other people who have defended
Sandberg, who genuinely don`t know, because they don`t associate with
people outside of their class status.
They didn`t know that people like me were being locked out. They didn`t
know this was an issue until Sheryl got this blowback.
And what I was going to say I don`t know if legislation is the answer. The
Department of Labor, though, is all over this issue in terms of federal
oversight. They are starting to crack down on people essentially skirting
paying minimum wage laws by calling it an unpaid internship. The
Department of Labor is over this and there have been a lot of lawsuits that
are also starting to make employers think twice about getting away with
SCHULTZ: Keli Goff, Zerlina Maxwell, thanks so much for joining us.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you.
SCHULTZ: Appreciate your time.
Tonight in our survey, I asked, "Does Chris Christie have the right
temperament to be president of the United States?"
Four percent of you say yes, 96 percent of you say no.
Governor, cool it.
Up next, a Wall Street defender lands in pretenders -- tonight, find out
why this Congressman thinks the people who tanked the economy on Wall
Street aren`t criminals.
SCHULTZ: And in Pretenders tonight, crime-free, Congressman Tom
McClintock. At a town hall meeting in California, the Republican
Congressman was asked what he thought of Wall Street criminal practices.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. TOM MCCLINTOCK (R), CALIFORNIA: For a criminal practice, there has to
be a gun. It`s pretty simple.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: Well, the lawmaker didn`t miss a beat with his answer.
Just the point. He believes financial crimes simply don`t exist -- toxic
mortgage loans, involvement and fraud insider trading are a real shame, but
not a crime.
McClintock, he doesn`t see any victims, like Americans out of work, losing
their savings and their homes while big banks rake in bonuses?
Republicans love to deny financial crime is happening, but denying the
concept exists is a whole new strategy.
If Tom McClintock wants us to believe this scheme is innovative, he can
keep on pretending.
SCHULTZ: Punch in and punch out -- this is a story for the folks who take
a shower after work.
Republicans are spending hundreds of millions of dollars attacking the
Affordable Care Act. And they`re lying about it. The full scale assault
on health care continues to mislead the public.
This is what their summer has been all about. Members of Congress continue
their crusade against ObamaCare by filling the airwaves with negative
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. ERIC CANTOR (R-VA), MAJORITY LEADER: We`re not going to give up our
quest to try and replace -- remove and replace ObamaCare.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Filling out all of this stuff?
You know, that`s the trouble with -- one of the big problems with
ObamaCare. It allows the federal government to have all of your medical
records. They`ll know all of your deepest secrets.
I`m glad I don`t have any.
REP. MICHELE BACHMANN (R), MINNESOTA: I was the champion of getting
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And do what is needed to make sure that government
overreach is not involved in American health care.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nothing is more important in regulatory reform than
repealing every word of ObamaCare, which I`m fighting every day to do.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: Oh, yes. And all those papers that you have to fill out, too.
It`s just terrible.
Don`t be intellectually not curious. Don`t let them get you down.
Meanwhile, the president continues his cross-country tour, trying to tell
the truth about ObamaCare. He made his sixth appearance on "The Tonight
Show with Jay Leno" to discuss the upcoming changes in health care.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP FROM "THE TONIGHT SHOW WITH JAY LENO," AUGUST 1ST,
OBAMA: On October 1st, if you don`t have health care right now, you can
join what are called these marketplaces. And you`ll be able to get lower
cost health care. Here in California, it`s estimated it will be, you know,
20 or 30 percent cheaper...
JAY LENO, HOST: Sure.
OBAMA: -- than what you`re already getting. And we`ll give you subsidies,
you know, tax credits, essentially, if you still can`t afford it.
So you can go to healthcare.gov, and right now, you can preregister,
essentially, and start figuring out, is this plan right for you?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: Does that sound like a government takeover?
It sounds like freedom to me. You can join.
Another advocate of the Affordable Care Act is Dr. Corey Ebert. Along with
a few of his colleagues, they have compiled a document called "ObamaCare
Made Simpler." The well constructed 11-page guide helps basically break
down the important facts to everyday Americans, you know, similar to most
member of Congress, who aren`t going to read 24 or five or 600 pages.
Folks don`t have the time, and quite often, they don`t have the
intellectual curiosity to sit down and read a bill that`s about that thick.
I get all that.
And that`s why this is such a great service. I cannot stress enough that I
believe that the American people can`t be intellectually lazy on this.
Pick up the phone.
Go to the Web site.
Read a little bit.
Don`t let somebody talk you down with lies, because a lot of what`s coming
out, from the right especially, simply is not true.
And this man has made it easy for you to understand, no question about it.
Joining me now is Dr. Corey Ebert, CEO of blackhealthtv.com and assistant
professor at LSU.
Doctor, why did you do this?
And what gave you the motivation to do this?
DR. COREY HEBERT, CEO, BLACKHEALTHTV.COM: Well, I`ll tell you what,
ObamaCare is the medicine that most conservatives and even some moderates
don`t want to take.
But guess what?
"ObamaCare Made Simpler" is actually the spoonful of sugar to help it go
down just a little bit easier. It`s something that people need to be very
aggressive about, because they`re getting all these lies in the media and
they don`t understand that this is going to be something that will save
their life, let alone make sure that they don`t go economically bankrupt.
HEBERT: And that`s the real deal.
SCHULTZ: Before we go any further, where can our viewers get your
"ObamaCare Made Simpler" pamphlet?
HEBERT: If you go to www.blackhealthtv.com, there is a link. And you can
just see it and you can read it, peruse it, do whatever you need to do to
make sure that you get the real information. There are so many things in
here. Nobody is going to read that whole document.
But guess what?
You need to read what I wrote, because several of my colleagues compiled
this thing and you need to get the real deal.
SCHULTZ: OK. I want to put that up on our screen again if we can, because
I`ve read it and I think it is absolutely outstanding that you`ve done
this. You`ve broken it down. You`ve answered some questions out there
that are commonly asked.
And is this really to debunk the lies?
Were you motivated by all the misinformation that was out there?
HEBERT: Yes. And, you know, I was really upset because the middle class
are the people that are really causing the most problem.
Let me give you an example.
If you paid $300 a month for your health insurance and you`ve paid it for
the last 30 years, you get breast cancer.
You have to go in the hospital and you have to get probably an $800,000
bill. And then you have to pay 80 -- you know, the insurance company pays
80, you pay 20 percent, which is still about -- over $100,000.
You`re economically devastated. And then, God forbid, you recur, and then,
your insurance company, that you`ve been so loyal to over all these years,
they cancel you.
And then what happens?
You don`t have any more money and you are economically devastated. Now
That`s not good for the country. You can`t buy a car. You can`t buy a
house. You can`t pay your rent. Your credit is destroyed.
That`s good for the country?
I think not.
SCHULTZ: And you`ve seen this, obviously.
HEBERT: Absolutely. Absolutely.
SCHULTZ: And every doctor has seen this, have they not?
HEBERT: Absolutely. This is real.
SCHULTZ: All right. Do you think this is good for doctors?
I keep hearing that doctors are getting financially shafted and ObamaCare
is not going to be doing right by the professionals.
HEBERT: Well, I`ll tell you what, you know, I`m a physician and some
physicians out there, we have to be altruistic. My job is to take care of
people. Now, granted, I might not make as much money as I may have made in
the previous years, but guess what, it`s not going to be a lot less. And
most doctors make a decent amount of money.
I mean it`s not so much, especially when compared to some of the loans you
have to pay. So no doctor is going to be...
HEBERT: -- the best, you know, feel like this is the best thing for them.
But they knew that when they took the Hippocratic Oath, that they said
they`re going to do the best thing and first do no harm.
HEBERT: And this is what ObamaCare means.
SCHULTZ: Dr. Hebert, this pamphlet that you have, how detailed -- I mean
did you really dissect every sentence to make sure that this just isn`t a
generic piece that`s going to get people through, that this really is well
researched and detailed and put and capsulized so the American people can
HEBERT: Right. Well, what we did was we -- we searched the Internet. We
scoured the Internet for the best and brightest people out there that have
put things together so that it makes it simple. We haven`t gone through
every tiny detail, but for the masses, if you do that, it`s once again
creating the document, you know?
HEBERT: So you want to do that. You want to distill it down so that the
normal person can understand this.
And so -- and, also, they don`t get board reading it, because they need to
know. I mean, for example, even just children, this is going to be a big
deal for children because there is -- ObamaCare eliminates the lifetime cap
on benefits. If you have a child and your child, God forbid, has a heart
condition at birth, that bill could be a million dollars.
And guess what?
Some insurance programs actually have a lifetime cap of a million dollars.
Do you think these exchanges will bring rates down?
We`ve seen some coverage of that in New York -- in the state of New York
and also in California.
Do you think that with these states that go with the exchanges will -- we
will see premiums go down, quickly?
HEBERT: Yes, I think you will.
HEBERT: In New York, it`s down by almost 50 percent. LA and parts of --
other parts of California, it`s going down. We know that this is the best
thing that happened.
And, you know, Chris Christie even said it right, like, you know, the
Republicans are all mad. But guess what, what did they offer?
HEBERT: So something had to be done. And this is the way that we`re going
to fix the health care system in the United States.
SCHULTZ: All right. Dr. Corey Hebert, great work, my friend.
Thanks for coming on THE ED SHOW.
HEBERT: Thank you.
SCHULTZ: And I invite everybody get that document.
That`s THE ED SHOW.
I`m Ed Schultz.
We`ll see you back here next Saturday at 5:00 from Washington, DC.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY
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