THE ED SHOW
August 20, 2014
Guest: Daryl Parks, Maria Chappelle-Nadal, John Garamendi, John Soltz, Bob
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERT MCCULLOCH, ST. LOUIS PROSECUTOR: Not everybody is always happy
with, you know, what`s going on.
DARYL PARKS, BROWN FAMILY ATTORNEY: The family is concerned about the
grand jury process.
REP. JAY NIXON, (D) MISSOURI: Literally the eyes of the nation and world
are on us.
BARACK OBAMA, CURRENT PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: I`ll be
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hands up.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Don`t shoot.
CAPT. RON JOHNSON, MISSOURI HIGHWAY PATROL: And I`m telling you, we`re
going to make this neighborhood whole.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We`re hateful (ph).
MCCULLOCH: Not everybody is always happy with, you know, what`s going on.
LESLEY MCSPADDEN, MICHAEL BROWN`S MOTHER: We won`t let it distract the.
MCCULLOCH: I know the theme, what the Brown family is going through right
MCSPADDEN: When justice is prevailed then maybe they`ll regain their
OBAMA: Now is the time for an open and transparent process.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All of the evidence has come in.
MCSPADDEN: Not everybody is always happy with, you know, what`s going on.
OBAMA: And see that justice is done.
ERIC HOLDER, UNITED STATES ATTORNEY GENERAL: Allow people to, you know,
express their -- express themselves, that`s what we do.
HOLDER: . in United States.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ED SCHULTZ, MSNBC HOST: Good to have you with us tonight folks, thanks of
watching. We start with major news out of Ferguson, Missouri. Earlier
today, Attorney General Eric Holder arrived in Ferguson. Holder was
briefed on the situation of the justice department`s federal civil rights
investigation into the death of Michael Brown.
The Attorney General met with community leaders, elected officials, and
federal prosecutors. Later in the day, the Attorney General met with
Missouri Highway Patrol Captain Ron Johnson. They spoke about letting
peaceful protest continue while getting rid of the criminal element.
Captain Johnson said Holder`s visit is important to the people of Ferguson.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHNSON: I think he have a great impact. I think it would show the people
of Ferguson, the people of St. Louis, the people of our nation that their
voices are heard. That the highest office in this land is listening to
their voices, and taking a look into the incident that happened.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: Earlier today Attorney General Holder wrote a message to the
people of Ferguson and the St. Louis Post-Dispatch. He wrote.
"This is my pledge to the people of Ferguson. Our investigation into this
matter will be full. It will be fair, and it will be independent."
In a statement released on Monday, Holder expressed concern with the case
saying, "The selective release of sensitive information that we have seen
in this case so far is troubling to me..."
Meanwhile a St. Louis county grand jury met today and began hearing
evidence in the case presenting evidence could take up to a week. Earlier
today, protesters gathered outside the St. Louis court house for the jury,
the grand jury convene. The protesters were peaceful, shouting, "Hands up,
Many in the community have concerns over the county prosecutor in this
case, Robert McCulloch. McCulloch said that there are no plans to meet
with Attorney General Eric Holder while he`s in town. McCulloch is from a
family that has a deep ties, deep roots to law enforcement in the
community. McCulloch`s father was police officer that was killed in the
line of duty by an African-American suspect.
Critics have raised questions about McCulloch`s impartiality. On Tuesday,
Missouri State Senator Jamilah Nasheed said McCulloch`s judgment will be
bought by his background.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. SENATOR JAMILAH NASHEED, (D) ST. LOUIS: He doesn`t have the fortitude
to do the right thing when it comes to prosecuting police officers. He`s
cousin is police officer, his mother works for the police department, his
uncle was a police officer, and again, we think that his judgment would be
clogged as a result of all of those occurrence.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: State Senator Nasheed has gathered over 26,000 signatures to
remove McCulloch from the case. Earlier today McCulloch said he has to
plans to step down or step aside.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MCCULLOCH: I understand that there`s some legitimately believe or honestly
believe, I should say, that they don`t think I`m best suited for this case.
And that`s fine, I understand that, you know, nobody is - not everybody is
always happy with, you know, what`s going on. So -- but what I`m trying to
convey to them is that, I got responsibility I`m not walking away from it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: Missouri Governor Jay Nixon has the power to remove McCulloch
from the case but has no plans to do so. Some politicians are calling for
the immediate arrest of Officer Darren Wilson but official say, the
decision to charge Officer Wilson could take weeks. United States justice
department, civil rights probe could take months.
For more let me bring in Brown family attorney Daryl Parks. Mr. Parks,
good to have you with us tonight here on the Ed Show. A lot of questions
about the prosecutor, do you think Mr. McCulloch can do his job, be
impartial and present what has to be presented to the grand jury and do
DARYL PARKS, BROWN FAMILY ATTORNEY: Well, at this point Ed, all we have is
Mr. McCulloch. So we have to go with him. However, some of the things and
comments that he`s made, especially in relates to the governor deeply
concerns his family. So, given that case and since the governor is not
going to remove him, he will be the state prosecutor.
It`s important in this case because most of the criminal charges that can
result from this, rest within the state. Although we do have the federal
possibility of those charges, the state has a far wide variety of charges
that could apply in this case.
SCHULTZ: Have you asked an independent prosecutor on this, or for Mr.
McCulloch to be release, and where does the family stand on this?
PARKS: Well the family has some serious concerns about whether or not this
prosecutor can really be fair. Mainly because of his comments that he has
made in relates to the governor, and when this situation first occurred.
He commented about the governor`s intervention and the situation in
general. So, I think that he obviously have some sentiments already
regarding this case. And the family has serious concerns about of his
ability to be fair and impartial.
SCHULTZ: Well, but they have not officially asked for a change have they?
Or -- I just want to clarify that, I mean, they`re tax paying citizens.
PARKS: We have not done it officially.
SCHULTZ: OK. Do you think they should?
PARKS: We`ve not done it, you know, it`s something that they probably
should really think hard about. I think that -- for a case this high-
profile, this and for him to make comments early so on, it raises questions
as to whether he could be fair. As you know in most judicial situations,
anytime there`s a question as to whether your ability to be fair and
impartial, in most situations where these judges are prosecutors, that
person would normally step aside.
We will have to see whether this prosecutor decides to do that. As of now,
he has decided not to.
SCHULTZ: Do you think the governor has any concerns about this prosecutor
but because of the democratically elected situation that he`s in, and he is
the elected prosecutor that he doesn`t want to make that change, thinking
that people have already spoken?
PARKS: Well, I think the governor is kind of seated in a very solo way
(ph). He said, you know, I guess the prosecutor will have to decide that
for himself, meaning that -- it`s obvious that there`s a situation there,
he`ll have to make that call himself and see if does the right thing.
SCHULTZ: You as an attorney representing the Brown family, you certainly
want justice, no question about it. District attorneys have a way of
getting in front of the grand jury where the tremendous amount of tenacity,
desire, passion, heart to get this to trial. Do you think this prosecutor
is going to do that?
PARKS: Well, I think we have serious concerns about it, I mean, obviously
the fact that this prosecutor obviously (ph) very close with this police
department. Obviously we`ve heard the comments that he made about the
interaction between that same department and the county police and what the
governor did. I mean it draws a lot of concerns given the context we`ve
seen does far in this case.
SCHULTZ: He`s got relatives in the police department. Isn`t that -- I
mean, this is small town stuff isn`t it? I mean...
PARKS: Well, it is. What I`ll question, I mean when you -- I mean just
given the fact that most prosecutors, local prosecution officers worked
directly with all the law enforcement agencies there locally, that alone
creates a situation. Given the fact of this particular department, being a
department that he works with, that creates certain -- any family to be
concern as to whether they could really investigate an officer, and given
the fact that this department has chosen to stand by that officer.
Those points alone draw serious concerns as to whether or not that there
could really be a fair and impartial investigation of the cause -- this
SCHULTZ: What do you hear about Eric Holder`s visit, I mean, what kind of
impact. He has no power over the governor. He can`t make a change of
venue. He can`t affect the grand jury. He can down the road of this civil
rights investigation which is taking place. But his presence there --
isn`t this somewhat of a message to the community that this is high
PARKS: Well, I think that that alone, but I think from this family stand
point though, we met with the justice department, midweek last week to
express to this family that they were concern and that they would look at
the investigation. We had Eastern District of Missouri`s U.S. attorney`s
office. We had the United States Department of Justice, civil rights
division represented there, along with the FBI. But once they`ve made that
decision, his mother also met with the FBI agents as part of their official
So, justice has been very involved in this investigation now for almost a
week. So, we were glad that the attorney general was able to come to town
and to show, you know, that he`s seriously involved. But, we`ve seen first
hand already, you know, we could go that the department of justice is
serous about this investigation.
SCHULTZ: Well, Mr. Holder called the selective release of evidence, very
troubling, which leads to believe that he has no confidence in this
prosecutor, or the process. Does that signal anything different to you?
PARKS: No, I mean -- and we all should be suspicious. I`ll give an
example. Just yesterday, there was the alleged story that someone in the
media reported, there were 12 witnesses that backed up the testimony of
what the -- I mean -- there were 12 witnesses have backed up the version,
that the officer was saying. That story was candid (ph) at a certain
point, but that story also said that there was someone within the official
state of investigation who confirm that that was the case.
You should never have leaks like that. I can tell you, when we have met
with the FBI, they won`t tell us another (ph) witnesses, they won`t tell us
who they talked to, when they talked to him or anything. And that`s how
you do a real criminal investigation. There shouldn`t be leaks...
PARKS: ... of any type coming out of those investigation. And that was
the point that the attorney general is making and we totally agree with
SCHULTZ: Mr. Parks, stay with us here on the Ed Show. I want to bring in
Ring of Fire radio host, America`s attorney, Mike Papantonio, former
president of the National Trial Lawyers Association. Mike, do you think
Eric Holder has any faith in the Saint Louis county process and the
prosecutor to be able to get this done?
MIKE PAPANTONIO, RING OF FIRE RADIO: Ed, typically the U.S. justice
department doesn`t make a move like this until the local police and the
investigators have completed their investigation but apparently, Holder is
saying the same thing that we`ve observed.
Bob McCulloch, the prosecutor, who`s been asked to investigate this
homicide, is incredibly strong ties. And family wise, uncle, mother,
brother, cousins, father, all worked for the police department. Add to
that, the fact that Governor Jay Nixon incredibly has not had the good
sense to replace McCulloch with the prosecutor and the grand jury
unconnected with the Ferguson community.
But here is where things really get ugly, this prosecutors going to have
the ability to heavily load and manipulate these presentations of evidence
to this grand jury. Without that grand jury ever understanding what`s
happening. For example, if he feels that Officer Wilson is on his way to a
second degree murder charge, he tweaks that presentation with a witness or
selective forensic evidence that reduces that possibility.
Worse yet, let`s imagine the grand jury does indict. All along the way,
the presentation of this trial, anybody with the slightest bid of cynicism
is wondering whether McCulloch is the Trojan horse passively or actively
working to undermine this case. And add to that, the real world -- and
those are real world concerns, Ed. This is not just imagination. This
goes on throughout the country. Mr. Parks will tell you, he had seen in
his practice, I`ve seen in my practice, these are real concerns.
SCHULTZ: Well Mike, with all those evidence against Wilson as the public
thinks, if it`s presented correctly, what are the chances of a conviction?
If it`s not presented correctly how much of an opening is it for the
PAPANTONIO: Well, the truth is even at this early stage, there are many
experienced defense lawyers who would tell you that Officer Wilson`s cases
is winnable. Mark O`Mara is a good friend of mine. He`s the one that
handle the Zimmerman case. We were talking about the case today. We had
exactly the same thoughts. That is proximity, is something that you`ll see
the defense use. The closer you put Officer Wilson to a 6 feet 4 inches,
300 pound Michael Brown who appears to be moving forward with his arms
extended the better chance the defense has to sell, reasonable use to
PAPANTONIO: .reasonable mistake, panic. That removes the criminal intent
but there`s so many other things that are so easily sold by a defense.
SCHULTZ: I want to get -- Mr. Parks, I want to bring you back into this
discussion. Here is Mike Papantonio, saying that he has spoken with other
attorneys and they are of mind alike, that this case is winnable for the
defense. And when you -- I want your reaction to that, but also, doesn`t
that -- maybe even prevent the professional case for you to say, "You know
what? We`ve got to get a different prosecutor in on here". I want to give
you time to address both those things.
PARKS: Well, first of all, any case is winnable as Pap and I both know. I
think that how you present that case and I think Pap is talking about
strategy even before the grand jury. But the same strategy in terms of the
regular jury and that you have to be forceful and find a way to make the
case, a compelling case. I would tell you, there`s some compelling
evidence in this case.
The most compelling evidence in this case Pap, is there are two shots to
the head that once the public gets a real chance to see how this kid was
shot in his head, it`s pretty much going to be a case for the prosecution.
Now, presented right, we think they`ll win with that evidence. But we`ll
see what happen once we get into it.
SCHULTZ: Mike, your thoughts.
PAPANTONIO: Well, the family has one of the best attorneys they could`ve
ever hire. I`m so glad to see him working on this case. He`ll do a great
job. All I`m saying is if the prosecution doesn`t do what they`re supposed
to do, it arms the defense. The suggestion for example that Brown was in a
hyper agitated state of mind in the way the he dealt with the shop keeper.
We`ve already heard that. We`ve already heard that, that agitated state of
mind argument for Brown helps the defense.
Add to that, the possibility in finding a blood spray pattern in the
officer`s patrol car consistent with Brown`s DNA. Go a step further, put
Brown`s DNA on the Officer`s firearm. If that occurs this is a very
difficult case for the prosecution. More importantly, the reason this
prosecutor should not be handling this case, is it should not -- there
should never be a question. The defense is going to work to make the
witness testimony into a dead draw.
The forensics are going to offer so much contradictory material for the
prosecution that the impact can be nullified by capable defense attorney.
But the truth is, this community deserves a prosecutor from out of this
town, and grand jury from out of this town to come in, where they don`t
Listen, we haven`t even got into the idea of the blood spray pattern. Was
there a blood spray pattern inside the automobile? Was, you know, that`s
very important on what occurred there. Was there a Brown DNA on the gun?
So a prosecutor who`s looking over everything needs to defend this Michael
Brown`s family`s right to have a case presented where nobody ask questions
PAPANTONIO: And in the end, if this prosecutors stays on with this grand
jury, I just think it creates too much signs of impropriety whether this is
a -- well meaning prosecutor or not.
SCHULTZ: And finally Mr. Parks, if this protest had not taken place, would
we be where we are today?
PARKS: I don`t think we would Ed. I think that these protests have proven
to be a very important part of our system, when you draw a great scrutiny
to a situation. We see everyday in America, cases where young black men
are killed, and quite often shallow investigations, shallow prosecutions,
and most cases even no federal oversights. So, it serves a real purpose to
make sure that we have a thorough process of justice and that`s what I
believe, we`re going to get in Missouri given the precedence and the
Department of Justice down (ph).
SCHULTZ: All right, Daryl Parks, Mike Papantonio, gentlemen, thanks for
the discussion tonight here on the Ed Show. I appreciate it.
Coming up, President Obama calls for international cooperation of the wake
But first, the Ferguson community continues to call for justice. State
Sen. Maria Chappelle-Nadal joins me. Stay with us.
SCHULTZ: Welcome back to the Ed Show. Thanks for watching tonight.
Tuesday night marked the 11th night of protest in Ferguson, Missouri. But
the tone on the streets was much different from previous nights. While
Monday night saw officers firing tear gas on protesters who threw Molotov
cocktails and fired shots at them. Last night, the crowd was smaller and
In fact protesters linked arms to keep agitators away from police.
Missouri Highway Patrol Captain Ron Johnson credited members of the
community for keeping the crowd in order.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHNSON: Tonight, the elders in this community, volunteers, activist, and
the clerk came out in large numbers. They walked, they talked with people.
They urged order, calm, and peace. That had a common influence on the
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: There were reports of bottles thrown at officers causing them to
move into the crowd and make arrest. Forty-seven arrests were reported
overnight. So far, less than 78 reported after Monday`s protest. Police
also confiscated three handguns from the people on the crowd. Captain
Johnson said, people listening to police departments request to protest
early helped to make the difference.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHNSON: Those citizens who took heed to what we talked about last night.
Not allowing the criminals to amass themselves in a peaceful protest. They
protested early, and they went home early, and allowed us a better visual,
look at those criminals and agitators roaming the streets...
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SHULTZ: Joining us tonight, Missouri State Sen. Maria Chappelle-Nadal,
great to have you with us senator. I appreciate your time. I want to talk
about Captain Johnson. He seems to really evolve over the last week as a
focal point of calm and really the voice of authority. What role do you
think he has played in mending this community and directing all of this in
a positive direction for the community to have a better night of protest
STATE SEN. MARIA CHAPPELLE-NADAL, (D) MISSOURI: Well, I have to tell you
that Capt. Johnson is exactly what this community needed. We needed to
temper down the crowd. We needed to relax. Some of the personalities that
were in the crowd and more importantly, we needed to identify some of those
people who are in the crowd, who were deterring the attention to other
It`s very important to have people on this community, who are focused on
justice, but we did have an element in this community that was quite
negative and as Captain Johnson showed extreme restrains especially in the
last few days. This community has been able to build trust with him. He
is a native son of this community. His family is here and he`s very
So I think having him on the ground and be an accessible most of all has
really calmed down any tempered the entire community here. I`m very happy
SCHULTZ: Senator, as the grand jury convenes there still seems to be quite
a question in the community, about the credibility and competence of the
Saint Louis County Prosecutor Bob McCulloch. Should he be leading this
case? Here`s the response to Governor Nixon saying McCulloch is the one to
make that call and not him of course. Here it is.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
MCCULLOCH: Gov. Nixon has the authority right now to say, "McCulloch is
out of this case". And so I direct them. Congressman Clay, Senator Nadal,
Senator Nasheed, and county executive -- anybody and everybody and citizens
walking down the street, expressed their opinion to Governor Nixon. He`s
the only that can do anything about it. He doesn`t a reason, all he have
to say is, "No, I`m not removing McCulloch". "Yes, I am removing
McCulloch", but get it done.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: Well, your response to that senator? He`s saying that he`s going
to do his job unless the governor does something.
CHAPPELLE-NADAL: Well, you know what? I have to tell you, I actually
agree with Bob McCulloch. What this is that the case of the governor
playing cat and mouse. He does not want to accept responsibility, it his
authority to remove Bob McCulloch from this case. Now, I have to tell you
if the case ends up -- or if the police officer ends up not being charged,
then this community is going to be very upset but the governor does not
want that to be his responsibility.
So, we have Bob McCulloch who`s willing to take it on but the community,
they don`t want to have Bob McCulloch. And let me tell you, he is a friend
of mine but I do listen to him and we agree in this case. If this
community does not want to have Bob McCulloch, then they should have a
special prosecutor. And so it is the governor`s duty, it is his authority
to remove Bob McCulloch and replace him with the special prosecutor. And
that is what this community wants, that`s what they desire and that`s what
I`m fighting for.
So, the attention really needs to be on the governor. He has a habit of
coming in the 11th hour. He is very hardheaded and so we`re tying to get
him to finally wake up and see, listen to the people of this community. He
has still yet to come to ground zero.
CHAPPELLE-NADAL: . and he is blaming other people. He`s playing the game
of cat and mouse and it`s unacceptable.
SCHULTZ: Well, you`re a Democrat he`s a Democrat. He`s apparently not
listening to people on his own party. Do you think the 26,000 signatures
on this petition are going to have an impact? And with that, do you the
presence of the attorney general is going to have an impact?
CHAPPELLE-NADAL: You know, I have to tell you it`s so wonderful to have
Eric Holder here. He`s really brought a new energy to this entire crisis.
And I`m so glad that Eric Holder is looking over the shoulder of Jay Nixon
our governor, because he`s not always been there for African-Americans and
minorities in Missouri. He had a history of ignoring the black community
unless it`s politically experience. And so what I would say, it`s
wonderful to have Eric Holder but the pressure needs to be solely on
Governor Nixon. That is where Bob McCulloch and I agree. He has to take
accountability and he`s unwilling to accept whatever outcome may happen if
this goes into court.
CHAPPELLE-NADAL: If this case is moved into court.
SCHULTZ: And do you think that he can do his job with the family
connections to the police department, are you troubled by that?
CHAPPELLE-NADAL: Well, you know, I have to be on the side of my district.
And while I do have a relationship with Bob McCulloch, my community, my
constituents do not want him.
CHAPPELLE-NADAL: And so yes, there are biases that are in place. And I
don`t feel although he is that for this particular situation. We`re in a
state of emergency and for that reason again, the accountability is only in
the hands of Governor Jay Nixon.
SCHULTZ: State Senator Maria Chappelle-Nadal, I appreciate your time
tonight here on the Ed Show. Thank you so much for joining us. Coming up,
a barbaric active terrorism, Rapid Response panel weighs in. I`ll have
quick commentary on that plus Paul Ryan takes a pass on the race
conversation. I`m taking your questions next, Ask MED Live on the Ed Show.
We are right back.
SCHULTZ: Welcome back to the Ed Show. Appreciate all the questions in our
Ask Ed live segment tonight. Our first question comes from Sue, "Why do
Republicans claimed to be Christians while being so mean to the poor?"
Well, they`re mean to the poor because they don`t recognize the poor. They
think if you`re poor and economically challenged in this country, it`s your
own damn fault. That`s how the Republicans view it. Just look at the way
they want to, not support the budget in some of the social safety nets that
are out there. They think it`s all about personal responsibility. In some
cases it is, but they broad brushed the whole thing. I don`t think they
recognize the poor in this country.
Our next question is from Ray. He wants to know, "Do you think President
Obama is doing the right thing in Iraq?" Absolutely, no troops on the
ground, air strikes. And now in the wake of what is unfolded in the last
24 hours intensify those air strikes.
Commentary on that coming up. Stick around, Rapid Response Panel is next.
JULIA BOORSTIN, CNBC: I`m Julia Boorstin with your CNBC Market Wrap.
The Dow, up 59 points, the S&P 500 adding nearly 5 points, and the NASDAQ
losing 1 point.
Bank of America has reportedly reached a record $70 billion settlement over
the sale mortgage-backed securities that contributed in the 2008 financial
crisis. Shares of Target up nearly 2 percent despite reporting a 62
percent drop in the 2nd quarter profits and cutting it`s the year-end
earning is forecast. Mortgage applications grow 1.4 percent last week, as
demands for refinancing increased.
That`s it from CNBC, first in business worldwide.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAMES FOLEY, AMERICAN JOURNALIST: Conflict journalism is very important.
We need to know what`s going on in the world. We need to know the
injustices. We need to know that most of the world is a dictatorship, you
know. Most of the world, you cannot speak your mind...
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: Such a travesty. Welcome back to the Ed Show. Even after
journalist James Foley spent 44 days in captivity at the hands of pro-
Gaddafi forces in Libya in 2011, he never lost his motivation to expose
injustices abroad. That motivation eventually sent Foley to Northern
Syria, where he was kidnapped again in November of 2012.
On Tuesday, terrorist group ISIS posted a video online titled, "A Message
to America". The video shows the beheading of 40-year-old James Foley.
ISIS calls the murder retaliation for U.S. air strikes in Iraq. The White
House`s National Security Council has confirmed the video`s authenticity.
It`s a shocking and barbaric act of terrorism committed against an American
citizen and journalist.
Earlier today, President Obama called on the national -- international
community to join forces against ISIS.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: To people of Iraq, with our support, are taking to fight ISIL, we
must continue coming together to expel these terrorists from their
communities. The people of Syria, whose story Jim Foley told, do not
deserve to live under the shadow of the tyrants or terrorists. From
governments and peoples across the Middle East, there has to be a common
effort to extract this cancer so that it does not spread. There has to be
a clear rejection of this kind of nihilistic ideologies.
One thing we can all agree on is that a group like ISIL has no place in the
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: If I may as an American citizen, I`m outraged. You can`t tax me
enough to pay for the ammunition to go after these people who did this to
this American and have created so much turmoil in the Middle East. It`s
much different in 2003. We don`t have to fight this conflict on their
terms with troops on the ground. But we can sure wake them up every
morning with continued air strikes and we should do that until they are
That`s my take and I certainly don`t want to jade the opinion of our next
guest within our Rapid Response, that`s where I stand on this tonight, and
I think America is there as well.
Joining me tonight on this Rapid Response Panel, Congressman John Garamendi
of California and John Soltz, Iraq war veteran and Chairman of
votevets.org. Congressman, great to have with us tonight.
REP. JOHN GARAMENDI, (D), CALIFORNIA: Always been (ph).
SCHULTZ: You bet gentlemen, thank you. You sit on a House Armed Services
Committee, you know the briefings, you know the information, you know about
ISIS. The beheading of an American journalist, a hostage and there may be
more if you listen to what they have to say. How does this change the
dynamic moving forward in Iraq, Congressman?
GARAMENDI: Well, I think of two ways, Ed. It really points out to all of
us. The seriousness of this conflict and really be a brutality, the
atrocity that these folks are capable of doing, and the determination that
we must have to pull together the countries of the Middle East, that all of
them at risk. And together with us, go after this really extreme, extreme
form of jihadist terrorism.
We have to do that, we don`t have much choice. I do like the notion that
you put forth that -- the air strikes, boots on the ground, we simply
cannot and should not go there. But we can, together with the -- certainly
the Iraqi government which is now reforming itself and Maliki is out,
that`s a good thing. And also the Kurds and the other neighbors in the
area really need to come together because they are as much at risk as we
Yes, there are other reporters and other hostages and they are in serious
jeopardy at this moment. I`m not sure if there`s much that we can do other
than to continue putting the pressure in the long-term to put down these
SCHULTZ: And -- congressman, do you think these air strikes can be
effective enough where we can defeat ISIS?
GARAMENDI: Not by itself, but with the other countries. If Iraq is able
to get act together, if they`re are able...
GARAMENDI: ... to get that government on it`s feet and get their military
back on it`s feet and the Kurds, all of them working together, the answer
is, yes, we can.
SCHULTZ: OK. John, you were recently in Iraq. Do you trust Iraqi
citizens that they`re going to help in this mission to expel ISIS? Do they
have the word (ph) with all the communities and the unity, and the heart to
JOHN SOLTZ, CHAIRMAN, VOTEVETS.ORG: On the North, the Kurds have a real
interest to push them back. I think what makes video so interesting for
the American public, is that`s this kind of stuff that we would have seen
in Erbil. That`s what`s we were seeing in Syria. I mean it was Vladimir
Putin of all people opposing President Obama`s strikes, but the pro-strikes
in Syria that said the people that Bashar al-Assad fighting are cutting
heads off. I mean this has been a long-known entity.
When we left Northern Iraq in 2011 when I was embedded, we knew there was a
lot of terrorist activity over the Syrian border that was killing U.S.
troops, tat was killing Iraqi troops. So in the North, I think that ISIS
can be contained with U.S. airpower, but that`s about it. The
administration has to completely change or look at the Syria policy. When
you have Hillary Clinton out there saying we should have armed Syrian
insurgence surgeons earlier, I`ve never really questioned her in my entire
life before that moment. I have no idea what she was talking about.
But that has been, for a long time against - I mean (ph), crazy people
inside Syria. And just tell you how confuse everybody`s been about Syria.
People thought Mr. Foley have been taken by the Syrian government until,
you know, this video popped up. So, there`s, you know, a lot ISIS activity
inside Syria and that really will continue to fester as long as there`s
this conflict of Bashar al-Assad.
SCHULTZ: What about that, Congressman. Do you see the possibility of air
strikes in Syria to contain ISIS?
GARAMENDI: I think yes, I know that major step forward in -- before that
happens, I would certainly want the President and his people to come to
Congress and explain why that would be the right thing to do, with regard
to arming a certain factions in Syria. That has been done at a very low
level and certainly non-lethal support has been provided. However, the
problem is, we`ve never known who to trust in Syria. Perhaps, earlier on,
there may have been some opportunities but that was three years ago, we`re
way past that now. So, it`s up to the administration when we return in the
second week of September to have a full-blown hearing and discussion about
what we should do. In the meantime, the continuation of the air strikes
does make sense.
SCHULTZ: I though the President was visibly upset today, controlled his
emotions when he gave his heart-felt comments to the nation and condolences
to the Foley family. But I believe that there is going to be an outrage
across America that we can`t let this go unanswered. And just a few more
air strikes might not do it. John, can we eliminate ISIS with an
intensified air campaign hour after hour and can it be effective to the
point where we would not have to put boots on the ground? That`s what I
think the American people want to know.
SOLTZ: I think the answer not as 100 percent no. There was no Syrian
opposition to support early on this war. They showed no indication that
they were going to, you know, have an embassy or create a military. What
happens when you`re training these poor militaries is you get a bunch of
ragtag people with a bunch of ragtag people.
SOLTZ: And so, if you really went after ISIS and you really went after
that air campaign, you know, you have to work with Bashar al-Assad. I mean
that -- he`s the one who has a common enemy with ISIS. And so far the
administration`s policy has been not to do that.
In regards to troops on the ground, there are boots on the ground. And as
far as I`m concerned, the administration has set them self up for a big
problem in the future here. There are going to continue boots in the
ground. We`ve got green brace in the ground. We got advices with the
Iraqi army. Their lives are in danger.
I think, you know, in the North, they`re relatively safe but when you have
precision air strikes like that, you`ve got A-teams on the ground calling
that airpower. The Kurds don`t have that ability so, there is U.S. power
on the ground, but there is no real way to defeat ISIS. Even if you push
them out of Northern Iraq with air power alone, they`re going to go right
back into Syria and Bashar al-Assad doesn`t have the force to control the
eastern part of the state where they fester.
So, in reality by helping even moderate insurgents inside Syria, that`s the
layman (ph) terrain without the Syrian army that ISIS is working on it.
And there`s just no way that moderate Syrians are really going to -- who
are insurgents, with have no military capability are going to turn on ISIS.
They just don`t have that cause or effect.
SCHULTZ: Gentlemen, thank you for the conversations tonight. I appreciate
it so much, Congressman John Garamendi and John Soltz of votevets.org...
GARAMENDI: Thank you.
SCHULTZ: Thank you, gentlemen. Appreciate it.
Coming up, Paul Ryan can run but he can`t hide from his own insensitive
words. Stay with us, we`ll be back.
SCHULTZ: And we are back in the Ed Show. Protesters seeking justice for
Michael Brown are holding their ground at the street despite extreme
temperatures. The National Weather Service has upgraded and excessive heat
watch in the St. Louis metro area to an excessive heat warning.
Temperatures hit 90 today and could reach triple digits this weekend. This
adds another layer of concern to the already tensed situation. Keep it
here. You`re watching the Ed Show on MSNBC.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The people are angry. They`re frustrated and they want
answers. And I think right now, we have to provide them answers, so that
everybody could be back to normal.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. PAUL RYAN, (R) WISCONSIN: Don`t try to link some prejudged conclusion
on what`s happening on the ground right now. As policy makers, I don`t
want it to be capitalized on tragedy by saying, "Well, here`s what we
should do because this is what I`m for it."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: And finally tonight, we focus on Wisconsin Congressman Paul Ryan.
He doesn`t want to talk about Ferguson, Missouri because it means an honest
conversation about race might have to follow. Paul Ryan joined the Kirby
Couch today, Tuesday, the hawk`s new book, but Fox and Friends accidentally
reminded him about his troubled race comments.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STEVE DOOCY, FOX NEWS HOST: You were on with the Bill Bennett on his radio
show in March and you had this observation, we`re going to play it for
folks about what`s going in the black community.
RYAN: We have got this tailspin of culture in our inner cities, in
particular, of men not working and just generations of men not even
thinking about working or learning the value and the culture of work. And
so there`s a real culture problem here that has to be dealt with.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: Paul Ryan can`t run away from his own words. Ryan makes off-base
and quoted attacks on culture without wanting to address Ferguson, Missouri
directly. Healing Ferguson must be done at the root by creating
opportunity for the residents instead of vilifying them. No one said it
better than Senator Bernie Sanders when he joined us on Monday.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. BERNIE SANDERS, (D) VERMONT: If we are going to address the issue of
crime in low-income areas and in African-American areas, it might be a good
idea that instead of putting heavy equipment into police departments on
those areas, we start creating jobs for the kids there who desperately need
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: Republicans want to distance themselves from the race
conversation because they`d have to talk about job opportunities.
Education in fairness, the GOP doesn`t have an answer to solving inequality
because their policies as I see it, work to expand it.
Joining me tonight Democratic strategist and Professor of Politics at USC
Bob Shrum. Bob, good to have you with us tonight.
BOB SHRUM, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Glad to be here.
SCHULTZ: I`ve noticed profoundly that Republican leaders have not
commented on the protest or the police activity in Ferguson. And I believe
it`s because it might draw them into a conversation of race which they`re
not really prepared or equipped to have. Your thoughts.
SHRUM: Well, I think that`s exactly right with the exception of Ryan Paul.
Ryan Paul, no one has been willing on the Republican side or no one major
has been willing to go out there and talk about this. I don`t even know
what Ryan means when he says, "We don`t want to exploit this". I think
what he means is I want to be silent about it because I want to satisfy the
Or the suggestion that comes from Rick Perry who`s not the brightest bulb
in the Republican parliament (ph), but who does understand that base, that
primary base. That somehow, this has nothing to do with race. Race is
written large all over this. Beginning with the fact that you have a young
African-American teenager shoot by a white policeman six times, twice in
the head, it`s almost inconceivable to justify that, it looks more like an
execution than is does, in act of self-defense.
And then you have it occurring in a town like Ferguson, 60 percent African-
American, with virtually know African-Americans in city government or in
the city council, and on the police force. So, if you have a -- look, this
is a situation that just tells us that there is a problem in America that
we have to face and deal with, from Henry Louis Gates, to Trayvon Martin,
to Michael Brown. Racism is an original sin of American history, and it`s
a mortal sin, a literally mortal sin in too many police departments.
SCHULTZ: But it seems that Paul Ryan is quoting to his to his colleagues
in the Congress on the Republican side, you know, we could run this
country, but we don`t have address race...
SHRUM: Well, that`s...
SCHULTZ: And as long as we have the power and we can have our policies and
we can run America without even worrying or even talking about it.
SHRUM: Well, you know, that you could argue that going all the way back to
Richard Nixon on the Southern Strategy, the Republican way to deal with
race is been to try to exploit it, as a lever to get votes. I mean you had
a traditionally Democratic South which on the issue of civil rights and
race ended up being Republican. And I also think Paul Ryan is
contemplating a run for the Presidency in 2016. He doesn`t want to get
into a situation where he`ll be in any of those primary debates, where
somebody will ask about this and they`ll say, "Well you didn`t support our
police" or, "You said there was a real problem in the race" because that is
not a message that resonates in the Republican party.
SCHULTZ: It`s almost as if they`re afraid to say that there`s been a
pretty shoddy police work that has been done in the forefront, and in the
wake of all this. And, they have stumbled over race in the past. Reince
Priebus, he spoke about the minority outreach in the Republican autopsy, I
believe a year ago. Wouldn`t this be the perfect opportunity to engage in
that conversation now and use this as the moment? You mentioned Ryan Paul,
he`s really the only one and it`s almost a badge of courage at this point
for the Republicans. They just run from a conversation.
SHRUM: Yes. And look, I think that these guys -- and Ryan Paul is
obviously thinking of running for president too. But the people who are
thinking about running for president are afraid to touch this issue. And
the real culture, you know, Ryan talks about the culture in the African-
American community, the real culture that needs to be analyzed here and
discuss is the culture of police forces which see themselves almost as
occupying armies which are over-militarized. And in the case of Ferguson,
you have a police chief who went out there over the objections of the
Department of Justice, smeared the victim and incite the people to
violence. If you can`t talk about this, how can you lead the country?
SCHULTZ: Well, the conservative narrative has to been to criticize the
President for maybe no t wearing a tie, to the attorney general showing up
and showing way too much federal force and interfering in the local. I
mean you can`t do anything right with these Conservatives, yet it`s very
profoundly stated that they run from any conversation when it comes to
healing communities that have got some racial issues and some racial
divide. It`s very clear they don`t want to talk about it. They think that
they can govern America without talking about it or addressing it. Bob
Shrum, always good to have you with us...
SHRUM: Great, Ed.
SCHULTZ: ...I appreciate your time tonight...
SHRUM: Take care.
SCHULTZ: ...thanks so much. That`s the Ed Show, I`m Ed Schultz.
Politics Nation with Reverend Al Sharpton starts right now.
Good evening, Rev.
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