This week, President Bush told Americans in a speech the U.S. would “stay the course” in Iraq. This wasn't a welcome message to Democrats who are calling for troops to return home. New York Democratic Congressman Charlie Rangel talked about the current dilemma in Iraq with ‘The Situation’ host Tucker Carlson.
TUCKER CARLSON, 'THE SITUATION' HOST: I should point out, it's the 21st century. We're pretending it's the 19th. You‘re on your cell phone joining us from the House gallery. Thanks for playing along with that. Now, you heard the president last night pledge no escalation in troops going to Iraq. I would think this would warm the heart of an anti-war Democrat like yourself. Weren‘t you pleased to hear that?
REP. CHARLIE RANGEL (D), NEW YORK: Well, to be honest with you, I was a little disappointed that the president went to 9/11 six times, which all of the evidence proves that there was no reasons given why we should do that.
Having said that, I am concerned about the troops that are there, what plans we have for them, and that this not become a partisan issue between Democrats and Republicans. If the president can say that, because of the intelligence or whatever, that we‘ve made a mistake and that we ought to call out to our allies to make certain we train these Iraqis so that they can take over their country, which we shouldn‘t be in, in the first place, I would have been a big supporter for the president.
CARLSON: I understand your position. I'm not a great supporter of the war, either, but it's kind of hard to argue with the reasoning that President Bush laid out last night, that we shouldn‘t send more troops right now because it would alert the Iraqis that we don‘t plan to leave, and that we shouldn‘t set a date for withdrawal because it would alert the insurgents that we‘ve lost our will. I mean, that makes sense, doesn‘t it?
RANGEL: I didn't hear him say that. I heard him say that he will send as many troops there as his field commanders would ask him to do. That is so unrealistic. Recruitment and retention is down. We're exhausting our National Guard and our reservists. We don‘t have the troops to be sending over there.
CARLSON: Well, you‘ve called as I guess the solution to that; maybe, you‘ve called for a draft. But philosophically, does that make sense? Why isn‘t a voluntary Army the way? People who support the policy can go fight the war. Why does that-you know, it‘s non-coercive. Why isn‘t that a good thing?
RANGEL: Because you‘re supposed to go to war-not preemptively, but when there is a threat. Having said that, we‘re at war, and we‘re in there, and we have to get our way out of there.
It seems to me, if the president is going to support the war from a patriotic defense point of view, that everyone should make a sacrifice, not just the poor who need the $10,000, $20,000, $30,000 and now $40,000 to enlist. And they‘re jacking that up for retention in order to get people to reenlist.
CARLSON: Well, but how can you-I mean, look, you said the other day something that I was puzzled by, and actually offended by, honestly. You said that you didn‘t think the people who planned this war, Paul Wolfowitz; you mentioned Richard Perle, Donald Rumsfeld, had sympathy for the troops because the troops were, you said, poor whites and poor blacks, and that the administration didn‘t really care what happened to them.
How do you know the motives of the people who planned the war and the way they feel about the troops?
RANGEL: First of all, I'm staying that there's strong evidence, with this group of people, Cheney, Wolfowitz, the whole bunch of them that you mentioned and many others, that they wanted to knock off Saddam Hussein.
And what I really said, and not as artfully that I wish I'd had, that if these people thought that their kids, and their grandkids, and members of Congress thought would be in jeopardy, we would not be at war. If we had a draft, I can assure you that we would not talking about staying there in Iraq and going to Iran, and Syria, and North Korea.
The fact that we have young kids coming from inner cities if rural areas is the only reason that we have a military. Look at the number that are killed. Look at the people that are wounded. See where they come from. Look on the TV.
CARLSON: Well, first of all, I mean, study after study has shown that the officer corps in the Army right now is not from the inner city and not from particularly poor backgrounds. They tend to be white Republicans. But the fact that we‘re having trouble recruiting...
RANGEL: But if you take a look and see who is being killed, they‘re not white Republicans. And you know that.
CARLSON: Wait, wait, hold on, Congressman. The fact that we‘re having trouble recruiting people into the Army, men into the Army, is limiting our ability to go into Syria or into Iran. It‘s exactly the opposite of what you described. We can‘t act out these, you know, neo-con plans because we don‘t have the men. I think you would be pleased by that.
RANGEL: I am saying that we have a foreign policy — I didn‘t exactly know what you meant, Tucker but we have got a foreign policy now where the president says, “Wherever there are people who are seeking justice and liberty, that we‘re prepared to fulfill our moral mandate to allow these people to be free and to get rid of dictators.”
We also hear that we don‘t have enough troops over there. This foreign policy we got that was set before Bush became in office, set before 9/11, is insane, and we have to change it. I really believe, if we talk about the draft, that people will change the policy. I don‘t think anybody thinks it was worth losing 1,700 people.
CARLSON: Congressman, Congressman, I‘m sorry to interrupt you. We‘re almost out of time.
I‘ve got to get you to explain comments you made to a radio station in New York earlier this month. You said the Iraq war is the biggest fraud ever committed on the people of this country. It‘s just as bad as 6 million Jews being killed in the Holocaust.
RANGEL: I did not say that. The record shows I didn't say it. What I did say was this, that in history would dictate when terrible things are happening, good people who know that they‘re happening remain silent, and then it becomes a reality. I said in slavery, in the lynchings, in the genocides, in the Holocaust, and at wartime, when people are quiet, bad things happen.
I did not say the Holocaust...
CARLSON: But you don‘t think that the Iraq-you don‘t think that the Iraq war compares in any way to slavery, in moral terms, or the Holocaust? I mean, it‘s an over-the-top comparison.
RANGEL: I am not comparing the actual atrocities that take place and the loss of life. What I am saying is that, whether you‘re in a room and people are making racial slurs, or religious slurs, whether they‘re attacking good people and you don‘t say anything, then that is a bad time.
I really believe that now more and more Americans, and church leaders, and community leaders see just how immoral this war is and, at long last, they‘re speaking up.