CHUCK TODD:
This Sunday: It's Joe Biden. Celebrations break out around the country as Biden takes Pennsylvania and the presidency.
PAIGE JOHNSON:
We came here to celebrate democracy. We are proud Americans!
BIDEN SUPPORTER:
I am so excited. I was so nervous the past couple of days.
HARRIETT SANFORD:
I can breathe for the first time in four and a half years.
CHUCK TODD:
Last night in Delaware.
JOE BIDEN:
Let this grim era of demonization in America begin to end here and now.
SEN. KAMALA HARRIS:
While I may be the first woman in this office, I will not be the last.
CHUCK TODD:
President Trump insists the election is not over, making baseless claims of fraud.
PRES. DONALD TRUMP:
If you count the legal votes, I easily win. If you count the illegal votes, they can try to steal the election from us.
SEN. PAT TOOMEY:
The president's allegations of large-scale fraud and theft of the election are just not substantiated.
CHUCK TODD:
The president's allies launching lawsuits to overturn the results. My guests this morning: Republican Senator Mitt Romney of Utah, Democratic Congressman James Clyburn of South Carolina and Biden deputy campaign manager Kate Bedingfield. Plus, race for the Senate.
KASIE HUNT:
This is not the night that Democrats dreamed of.
CHUCK TODD:
Disappointed Democrats fail to seize the Senate yet and lose seats in the House.
SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL:
We had a very good day. Most pundits thought we were going to lose the Senate.
CHUCK TODD:
Two Georgia runoffs in January will decide control of the Senate. Joining me for insight and analysis are: NBC News senior Washington correspondent Andrea Mitchell, Democratic pollster Cornell Belcher, Wall Street Journal columnist Peggy Noonan and David Wasserman, House editor for the Cook Political Report. Welcome to Sunday and a special election edition of Meet the Press.
ANNOUNCER:
From NBC News in Washington, the longest-running show in television history. This is a special edition of Meet the Press with Chuck Todd.
CHUCK TODD:
And a good Sunday morning. One side of a deeply divided country is celebrating this weekend. A nationwide block party broke out from coast to coast yesterday in spontaneous celebrations, mostly in cities, moments after television networks called the election for Joe Biden.
[BEGIN TAPE]
BIDEN SUPPORTER:
We love Joe Biden, it is the election of our lifetime, it impacts our future so much, and it just means so much to us, it's happening, we did it. We did it.
BIDEN SUPPORTER:
Ecstatic. I'm ecstatic. Like that's it. Like it's electricity going through my body at this very moment.
[END TAPE]
CHUCK TODD:
Last night in Delaware, the new president-elect and Kamala Harris addressed supporters and the nation.
[BEGIN TAPE]
JOE BIDEN:
Now let's give each other a chance. It's time to put away the harsh rhetoric, lower the temperature, see each other again. Listen to each other again.
[END TAPE]
CHUCK TODD:
Perhaps by now, you know the story. Biden won by rebuilding -- barely -- the Democrats' northern industrial blue wall, taking Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania, all of them narrowly, after all, Wisconsin’s technically going to be a recount, and, more importantly adding, it looks like, perhaps, two Sun Belt states, Georgia and Arizona. Of course, those races are not called, but Biden leads in both. Biden is heading for a solid if unspectacular popular vote victory, somewhere in between Barack Obama's 2008 and 2012 wins. But the raw vote is quite impressive. The big lesson of this election; 2016 was not a fluke, it was a signal. While voters rejected President Trump, the individual, he still won far more votes than last time and it was hardly the wholesale rejection of Trumpism that Democrats had anticipated. Still, the president, who has yet to concede, is refusing even to admit that he lost. He's claiming that illegal votes put Joe Biden over the top which is false. He’s claiming that "Joe Biden is rushing to falsely pose as the winner." That is not true. And that he actually won the election, and did so by a lot. Well that’s wrong, and as you can see by these numbers, by a lot. In that spirit, President Trump and his allies have launched about a dozen lawsuits to overturn the outcome of the election. We've got the story covered this morning, from the presidential election, to the Senate control, to the House. And we're going to start with two reports, beginning with NBC News White House correspondent Kristen Welker who's at Biden headquarters in Wilmington, Delaware. So Kristen, they want a signal that the work of the presidency begins now. What are you learning?
KRISTEN WELKER:
That's right, Chuck. That is very important right now. President-elect Biden aiming to show action on a key campaign promise, winning the fight against Covid. We are told he is going to officially launch his transition tomorrow and also announce a task force that will be led by three co-chairs including former surgeon general, Vivek Murthy. He will also, I’m told -- we're told, that on day one Biden will sign a slew of executive orders aimed at reversing key parts of the Trump agenda. Among them: rejoining the Paris Climate Accords, reversing the withdrawal from the World Health Organization, repealing the ban on immigration from Muslim-majority countries and also reinstating DACA. Now it is notable that several of those are focused on restoring the United States’ relationship to its traditional allies on the world stage. So Chuck, the work begins immediately.
CHUCK TODD:
And Kristen, I am curious, what is it that Joe Biden and the Biden campaign -- how quickly do they think they're going to be able to start having a cabinet ready to go, or at least present to the country even if they don't know what Senate they're going to be presenting it to?
KRISTEN WELKER:
Yeah, it’s a very good question. We are told likely in December or late November. So that is going to be a key focus moving forward. And of course, trying to find people who will be confirmed if, in fact, the Senate is controlled by Republicans. And that's really going to be a key part of what President-elect Biden is trying to do, his most urgent challenge, in addition to all of his policy initiatives and goals that we just talked about, he's going to try to unify what is a deeply-divided nation. He knows that his challenge will be reaching out to the 70 million people who voted against him and for President Trump. He's going to do that with his messaging. We saw that on display last night, right, at his remarks when he said he was going to be a president for all people. And he's also going to aim to reach across the aisle to work on legislation, also to build his cabinet. And while Biden did have a number of calls on Saturday, he has not yet spoken to Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell. But I am told that he does plan to have several calls with Republicans in the coming days, Chuck.
CHUCK TODD:
Well, you just answered yet another question that I was about to ask the Biden campaign. Kristen Welker in Wilmington. Kristen, thanks very much. Let's go over to Kelly O'Donnell. She's at the White House, also obviously with the latest on the Trump campaign efforts here. And I guess the question -- first question I have, Kelly, is that in the statement on Saturday that they released after the media projected Joe Biden as president-elect, they talked about that starting Monday that they would have a whole slew of challenges ready to go, that they would begin this process. Any hint at what this looks like?
KELLY O'DONNELL:
Well, we have some ideas. And what has not changed in this very long week, Chuck, is the president himself. There remains a Trump way of doing things and that is right on brand for Donald Trump where there's no concession, and fight is on the agenda. So the Trump team is using a different clock. The president sees room to pursue this battle because states have not certified election results. So, they claim to be ready to take this action tomorrow based on varied circumstances. Relying, in part, on tips coming from voters and election workers who have signed affidavits. And the issues include whether mail-in votes were separated properly in Pennsylvania, to incorrect election software being used in Michigan, to out-of-date voter rolls in Nevada. Those are just some of the issues they're looking at. Now the Trump campaign is also raising money for this effort. But it's important to know the fine print also says any funds that come in can be used to pay off campaign debts, not litigation over the result. And, Chuck, this morning the president is tweeting about what allies are saying, supporting his desire to look for errors or fraud that could somehow change the outcome. And outside the gates here at the White House, construction is already underway for the viewing stands for the January inaugural parade. So that's a reality that the time in this president's term is limited. That's something he'll be able to hear the banging and the sawing today, Chuck.
CHUCK TODD:
Very quickly, I know that the president's chief of staff got Covid. That must only add to sort of -- what is the mood in that West Wing right now?
KELLY O'DONNELL:
Well, in talking with some of the staff members here, you get the sense that there has been an exhale. The mood is certainly quiet. And many have not been in the offices. We expect that the president might get some more fresh air today. One might think he would go back to his Virginia golf club. That is something that the president likes to do. Yesterday we saw him on the links. And certainly when he was traveling in the city, he saw that there were a lot of people out celebrating the victory of President-elect Joe Biden. The motorcade had to drive through that. So that's another reminder of how his circumstances have changed so abruptly this week, Chuck.
CHUCK TODD:
Kelly O'Donnell at the White House for us this morning. Before that Kristen Welker in Wilmington, thank you both. And joining us now from the Biden campaign in Wilmington is deputy campaign manager Kate Bedingfield. Kate, welcome back to Meet the Press. First of all, congratulations.
KATE BEDINGFIELD:
Thanks for having me. Thank you.
CHUCK TODD:
You're in a small club of folks that have successfully won presidential elections. And no one can take that away from you. So, kudos.
KATE BEDINGFIELD:
Thank you very much. It's a very -- it’s an exciting time for the country.
CHUCK TODD:
I’m sure you feel relieved and euphoric today. Let me start with this, we know -- the president-elect last night said this about his mandate. He said, “They've given us a mandate for action on Covid, the economy, climate change and systemic racism.” I feel like he laid out four pillars there of his focus. Explain how will -- how will we see that in the next couple of weeks during this transition? How will the public see that focus on this -- on what the president-elect believes is his mandate?
KATE BEDINGFIELD:
Sure, well the work starts right away. I mean, you know, those are the promises that he's campaigned on throughout this entire campaign. He's addressed these four crises that we're facing. You're going to see, for example, he's going to launch the coronavirus task force tomorrow. It's going to be led by Vivek Murthy and David Kessler, who've been advising him and our campaign since this virus emerged back in March. So, you're going to see the work get underway. He -- I think you saw last night in his remarks -- he really laid out a commitment to, you know, not just address those mandates that you just -- that you just referenced, but also to address a mandate to bring the country together. To unify, to lower the temperature, to set aside the harsh rhetoric of the campaign and get to the hard work of governing. And he's going to be, you know, begin transition work in earnest this week. He'll be making calls. He'll be making announcements to the American people about how he's going to make good on these campaign promises. And I think, look, we saw the Biden-Harris ticket get the most votes of any presidential ticket in the history of presidential politics. People are hungry for change. They want to unify, they want to come together. That's how President-elect Biden is going to lead.
CHUCK TODD:
Do you -- has, has your focus on personnel, on policy initiatives that you might take on early in this administration, how much does that get tempered a bit by the fact that you might be dealing with a Republican Senate?
KATE BEDINGFIELD:
Well, look, Vice President Biden, now President-elect Biden is going to lay out the people that he believes are best to serve our country in these roles. And he's going to make his case. And work to get them through if it's a Republican Senate, which we don't know yet that it will be. He's going to work to get them through a Republican Senate. I think, again, I would go back to this is what the American people voted for. This is what they want to see. And so I think for members, for Republican members of the Senate, they're going to feel that pressure too. People want the country to move forward. They want to see President-elect Biden and Vice President-elect Harris move forward on their agenda and have the opportunity to do the work, to get the virus under control and to get our economy back together. So, you know, that's what the American people voted for. And that's how Vice President Biden, sorry, now it's -- old habits die hard -- President-elect Biden is going to lead.
CHUCK TODD:
It's interesting you said what the, what the American people voted for. They voted, you know, the results are mixed if you look up and down the leadership of Washington, if you will, right? Democrats lost some ground in the House. The Senate is an open question but I'm sure you guys were hoping you'd already have control and not have to worry about the Georgia runoffs. So, do you think the country sent a message of, “You know what, we don't want to give one party all the power. Hey, Joe Biden, your job is to work with everybody?”
KATE BEDINGFIELD:
Well, Joe Biden believes his job is to work with everybody. So, that is, you know, if that is the message from the American people, that's how Joe Biden views governing. That's, that's, you know, he got into this campaign in April of 2019, making an argument that the president of the United States should work with everybody, and that that's the kind of leadership we should demand and expect. So, that is -- that is his intention. He is going to, you know, work to, to bring people to the table, to try to find consensus and, you know, he has a track record of doing that. You know, if you look back at when he and President Obama came into office in 2009, in an economic crisis, similar to the one that we're in now, and he was able to persuade Republican senators to vote for the Recovery Act, a massive investment in our infrastructure and jobs. So he has a record of being able to do that. And that's how he's going to lead.
CHUCK TODD:
Alright, some, some people hear the word consensus on the left and they think it means you're going to sell the left out. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez said this in an interview about her expectations on how the Biden administration will be to the, to the left of the party, and she says, “The history of the party tends to be that we get really excited about the grass roots to get elected, and then those communities are promptly abandoned right after an election.” Let me ask you this: do you believe that she's going to be disappointed, or not, when she sees the agenda of the Biden administration in the first six months?
KATE BEDINGFIELD:
No, I think -- I think that Vice President Biden campaigned on an incredibly progressive and aggressive agenda. Take a look, for example, at his climate plan. It's the boldest, biggest climate plan that's ever been put forward by, you know, by a nominee running for president and now a president-elect. He's going to make good on those commitments. I mean we, you know, he spent time during this campaign bringing people together around, around this climate plan. He was able to get the endorsement of groups like the Sunrise Movement and the endorsement of Labor for this plan. It's a big, aggressive plan. It's a perfect example of the kind of, you know, big effort that he is going to make to meet this moment and to meet these crises that we’re in.
CHUCK TODD:
Kate Bedingfield, the deputy campaign manager for the Biden/Harris ticket. Thanks for coming on. And again, congratulations, and we'll see you soon.
KATE BEDINGFIELD:
Thank you very much. Thanks for having me, Chuck.
CHUCK TODD:
You got it. And joining us now is Republican Senator Mitt Romney of Utah. Senator Romney, welcome back to Meet the Press.
SEN. MITT ROMNEY:
Thank you.
CHUCK TODD:
Let me start with a simple question. What did you learn from the voters on Tuesday night?
SEN. MITT ROMNEY:
Well, I learned that Republicans picked up seats in Congress, held onto the Senate, picked up statehouses across the country, but we lost the presidency. And so it's a bit of a mixed message. I think people are saying that conservative principles still account for the majority of public opinion in our country. I don't think the American people want to sign up for the Green New Deal. I don't think they want to sign up for getting rid of coal or oil or gas. I don't think they're interested in Medicare for All or higher taxes that would slow down the economy. But they do want to see a change in leadership in the White House, apparently, at this stage. And so it's a message which says, "All right, a change in leader. But we're not going to be turning a sharp left turn in terms of public policy."
CHUCK TODD:
So what do you believe Joe Biden's mandate should be? You heard what he thought his mandate was last night, bringing the country together, number one. And then he talked about some issues that he wanted to focus on. But what do you believe his mandate is?
SEN. MITT ROMNEY:
Well, I believe he said it last night, which is he does want to bring the country together. He does want to bring honor and respect into the White House. And the way he sees it, he wants to be a man of character. He is a man of character. And I think these are things which he thinks are very important both here and around the world. In terms of policy, I'm sure he'll have his own agenda. But he worked in the Senate long enough to recognize that there are two parties, that things have to be done on a bipartisan basis. And the more extreme wing of his party is not going to take over policy in this country. That's not where the American people are. And if he tries to go in that direction, well, I think he'll fail because we conservatives will make sure and stand up for the great majority, in my opinion, of the American people who believe that conservative principles serve us better. But we’ll, you know, he indicated he wants to work on a bipartisan basis. We're ready to do that.
CHUCK TODD:
What would you like to see President Trump do this week? You've been here. You've lost an election. You've lost a close election. In fact, in some ways, I feel like there's very -- there’s some similarities, and it was very tight in various battleground states just like yours in 2012. How would you like to see President Trump handle the week going forward?
SEN. MITT ROMNEY:
Well, the way I would handle the week and the way President Trump would handle the week will be different because we're very different people. We're not going to change President Trump or his nature in the waning days of the presidency. And so I don't think I'm going to be giving him advice as to what to do. Clearly, people in the past, like myself, who’ve lost elections, have gone on in a way that said, "Look, I know the eyes of the world are on us. The eyes of our own people are on the institutions that we have. The eyes of history are on us." In a setting like this, we want to preserve something which is far more important than our self or even our party. And that is preserve the cause of freedom and democracy here and around the world. But the president's going to do what he has traditionally done, what he's doing now. I don't think that's going to be a surprise for anybody. And by the way, he has every right to call for recounts. Because we're talking about a margin of 10,000 votes here, or less in some cases. And so a recount could change the outcome. He wants to look at irregularities, pursue that in the court. But if, as expected, those things don't change the outcome, why, he will accept the inevitable.
CHUCK TODD:
Is there a point where pursuing that strategy undermines the democracy?
SEN. MITT ROMNEY:
Well, I'm more concerned about the language that's used. I think it's fine to pursue every legal avenue that one has. But I think one has to be careful in the choice of words. I think when you say that the election was corrupt or stolen or rigged, that that's unfortunately rhetoric that gets picked up by authoritarians around the world. And I think it also discourages confidence in our democratic process here at home. And with a battle going on right now between authoritarianism and freedom, why, I think it's very important that we not use language which can encourage a course in history which would be very, very unfortunate.
CHUCK TODD:
And maybe this seems obvious to maybe you and I, but there were people whose ballot may have voted for Joe Biden and may have voted for, say control -- may have voted for a Republican State Senate candidate in New Hampshire. It certainly looks like, to me, that happened. So, if you're saying one vote is rigged, are you also saying the other votes are rigged?
SEN. MITT ROMNEY:
Well, I think that's a pretty fair point. And actually, I understand by watching Rick Santorum the other day that actually the president did better in Philadelphia this cycle than he did four years ago in terms of the percentage of the vote he received. So there are some arguments which argue against suggesting that the election is going to get reversed. But at the same time, I think you make an important point, which is a lot of Republicans, a lot of voters, voted for Republicans but did not vote for the president. And that suggests to me that conservative principles are still in the majority in our country.
CHUCK TODD:
Well, it's interesting you say that. I want to tell you about Cobb County, Georgia, Senator Romney. When you were on the ballot in Georgia in Cobb County, you won that county by 12 points, suburban county of Atlanta. Joe Biden won it by 12 points eight years later. So you're talking about -- you feel good about the fact that you say there's a majority in this country that wants conservative principles. But your party took a beating in the suburbs. And that, you know, that's why it looks like you may not win Georgia. And if that is a pattern, you might not control the Senate because of that. Do you believe your party has a problem in the suburbs?
SEN. MITT ROMNEY:
Well, my party, I'm sure, has challenges as does the opposition party. But I think I'll let people like yourself make a call as to why people voted the way they did. But I think if you look at the numbers and look at the pickup that Republicans had in statehouses across the country, in Congress and holding the Senate so far versus our loss in the presidency, you'd suggest that the presidential race was more a matter of a referendum on a person. And that when it came to policy, we did pretty well. So as I look at what’s going to happen in Georgia, this will be a race primarily about policy. I don't think the American people want to sign up for the Green New Deal and for Medicare for All and so forth. So I think we'll do well in the Georgia race. But it's going to be a challenge. But do we have challenges as a party? Absolutely. And do we need to do better with young people and minorities, in particular? Absolutely. Can we bring back suburban women into our party? I believe so. But we've got some work to do.
CHUCK TODD:
Is this still Donald Trump's Republican Party?
SEN. MITT ROMNEY:
Well, he is without question the most powerful voice in our party. He will have an enormous impact on our party going forward. I believe the great majority of people who voted for Donald Trump want to make sure that his principles and his policies are pursued. So yeah, I mean, he's not, he’s not disappearing by any means. He's the, you know, the 900-pound gorilla when it comes to the Republican Party.
CHUCK TODD:
Senator Mitt Romney, Republican from Utah, I appreciate you getting up early and spending a little time with us this morning. Thank you, sir.
SEN. MITT ROMNEY:
Thanks, Chuck.
CHUCK TODD:
You got it. When we come back, whatever happened to that blue wave that was supposed to give Democrats the Senate and grow their House majority? Congressman James Clyburn joins me next.
[START TAPE]
BIDEN SUPPORTER:
We’re first time voters. This is our first election, and it just means so much to us voting for equality and the future.
BIDEN SUPPORTER:
We don't stand for anything Trump stands for. We love Joe, and we want him to be our president.
[END TAPE]
CHUCK TODD:
Welcome back. In spite of Joe Biden's win, Democrats are asking themselves some hard questions after an otherwise disappointing election night down the ballot. So far in the Senate, the Senate Democrats have netted only one seat, with Senate control to be decided by two January runoff elections in Georgia. I have to tell you, folks, the amount of money and effort that's going to be thrown into that is something else. Republicans actually gained seats in the House, by the way. So cue the Democratic finger-pointing. We've already heard and seen some. Progressives and moderates blaming each other for the results. So joining me now is Democratic Congressman James Clyburn of South Carolina who, frankly, could be considered the godfather of the Biden presidency because it was his early endorsement of Biden that sent him on his way to the nomination. And it is something the history books will never forget. Congressman Clyburn, it's always good to see you. Welcome back to Meet the Press.
REP. JIM CLYBURN:
Thank you very much for having me back.
CHUCK TODD:
Let me start with, to get you to respond to something that Senator Romney said. He said he thought this election was a referendum on a person, and that is why Donald Trump lost. But it turned out it wasn't a referendum perhaps on, on policy directly because that's his explanation for why Republicans did better than expected down the ballot. What's your response?
REP. JIM CLYBURN:
Well, I think he is, in part, right about that. But I think you ought to take a look at Georgia. I said before the election that the state that I would focus on to see what is happening in Georgia. And some great things are happening in Georgia to demonstrate that it was not just about the person but about some philosophies going forward. And so I think that's why you got the kind of, of vote in suburban areas around Atlanta. If you all look back to the primary, you'll see that Joe Biden was picking up votes in South Carolina, in areas where Democrats had not been getting votes before. So, he's right about the country being much more, if we use the term, cautious, than we expected it to be. So, I'm not upset about the results. A little bit disappointed that we lost seats. But I also recognize -- look back two years and see where we picked up seats in the House. We knew going in this was going to be tough, to hold many of those seats. And so we just saw the -- and we’ll see what happens going forward.
CHUCK TODD:
I'm curious, we've heard the reports that there was sort of a call with, with the Democratic conference last week and some of the -- some of the more centrist Democrats that survived, but barely, complained about the Socialism label, the phrase “defund the police”. You were somebody -- I remember the day you came on this show and said, “Let me tell you something about that phrase, defund the police” and you were very aggressive, pushing back on it. But do you think that that did cost you House seats? The Socialism, Socialism label, particularly in South Florida, those two seats, and “defund the police”?
REP. JIM CLYBURN:
Well, I don’t know about all the seats. I’ve talked to the people down in South Florida. They told me that that really, really was a problem down there. But I can tell you about the 1st congressional district of South Carolina. I really believe that that's what cost Joe Cunningham his seat. And I can also tell you about the Senate here in South Carolina. Jaime Harrison started to plateau when “defund the police” showed up with a caption on TV, ran across his head. That stuff hurt Jaime. And that's why I spoke out against it a long time ago. I've always said that these headlines can kill a political effort. We are all about making headway. And I just hope that going forward we will think about each one of these Congressional districts and let people represent their districts. You know, Joe Cunningham could not get elected in my district and I can't get elected in his.
CHUCK TODD:
Right.
REP. JIM CLYBURN:
So let's recognize that the people should reflect that diversity in our country.
CHUCK TODD:
Let me get you to respond to something that Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez said in an interview this weekend. She said, “The last two years have been pretty hostile. Externally, we’ve been winning. Externally, there’s been a ton of support, but internally, it’s been extremely hostile to anything that even smells progressive.” That was about how things have worked inside, inside the Democratic Congress. How would you respond to her?
REP. JIM CLYBURN:
Well, you know, sometimes I have real problems trying to figure out what progressive means. You know, I tell people all the time, my father was very conservative. He was a minister. I never heard him ask his congregation to give conservatively. He always asked for a liberal offering. And so I believe that it’s good to be conservative at times and in many ways, but it’s also good to be liberal at times, in many ways. And so you have to balance all of this out. Now, some people refer to me as being moderate, I’ve been called conservative and I’ve been called a flaming liberal. What would we call John Lewis? You know, anytime you challenge the status quo, you are looked upon as being liberal. No, you just want to be a part of what's going on in this great country, a country that you’ve helped to make great. And that’s all this is. So I don't, I don’t get hung up on labels, so I don’t know what I am. I'm an American, a very proud American. And I’m a Democrat, a very proud Democrat. So I just want us to be Democrats in a big tent, and these labels, I don’t -- I reject.
CHUCK TODD:
And right now, you've been my guest here on Meet the Press. Democratic Congressman Jim Clyburn from South Carolina. I always appreciate when you come on and share your perspective with us, sir. And again, Joe Biden, look, he was your guy from the beginning. Congratulations on that, sir.
REP. JIM CLYBURN:
Thank you very much.
CHUCK TODD:
You got it. When we come back, what did the election just tell us about our divided country and our chance of healing? Panel is next.
[TAPE BEGINS]
SEN. KAMALA HARRIS:
We did it. We did it, Joe. You're going to be the next president of the United States.
[TAPE ENDS]
CHUCK TODD:
Welcome back, the panel is joining us. NBC News senior Washington correspondent Andrea Mitchell, Democratic pollster Cornell Belcher, Wall Street Journal columnist Peggy Noonan, and David Wasserman, House editor of the Cook Political Report. But this week we commandeered him as an important member of our Decision Desk. So Mr. Wasserman, I'm actually going to start with you, because you are a guy that looks at American politics granularly from the ground up. And in some ways, you're also able to, I think, answer this question: You heard Mitt Romney essentially make one argument that said, "Hey, this was a referendum on the president. But it was a confirmation that this is a country that still maybe leans to the right there." Is that what we learned from this election? What did you learn from this election?
DAVID WASSERMAN:
Well, first of all, Chuck, after all we've been through as a country in the past year, there are many parts of the country where the vote didn't change very much. And for all the talk of wanting to bring the country together, this election resulted in more polarization in a lot of states. I kept track of the past 20 years’ elections of what percentage each major party nominee won of counties with a Whole Foods Market and a Cracker Barrel Old Country Store. And in 2016, when Donald Trump won the White House, he carried 76% of counties with a Cracker Barrel and only 22% of counties with a Whole Foods -- a 54-point gap. The gap had been 19 points in 1992. Well, in this election, based on my preliminary calculations, Joe Biden won 84% of counties with a Whole Foods Market and only 27% of counties with a Cracker Barrel. So that 57-point gap is even wider than the one that we had in 2016. The irony of President Trump's attacks on Democrat-run cities is that they were some of the few places where Trump's vote share was actually a little bit higher than it was in 2016. In Philadelphia, Detroit, Milwaukee, the early evidence suggests that he actually slightly narrowed the margin. Not by much, but there are some reckoning signs for Democrats moving forward with regard to share of the Hispanic vote, in particular.
CHUCK TODD:
Cornell Belcher, I will say this, what you heard there was interesting, and I know you do a lot of work in South Carolina. You've done some work in some of those races there. To hear Congressman Clyburn talk about, sort of, this mixed result that the Democrats got -- and what's interesting, it sure looks like we just reran the 2016 election and Gary Johnson voters voted for Joe Biden.
CORNELL BELCHER:
I think that's right. To a certain extent, Chuck, though, we keep rerunning the same election over and over. Look, what did Donald Trump get? He got 57% of the white vote which was just in line with what he got in 2016. What did George Bush get? He got 57% of the white vote. What did Ronald Reagan get? He got 59% of the white vote. What's changing are the demographics. You know, 57% of the white vote in '84 was a Ronald Reagan landslide. 57% of the white vote right now is different. And to me -- and we can talk about economics all we want, but to me, what you see is two Americas coming together and fighting over the future. There is certainly an ascending America versus a culturally anxious America. And I think that is sort of the two battle lines that we're looking at right now in this country as we face perhaps a cold civil war between those who are anxious about the changes that are happening in America and those who are part of the changes that are happening in America.
CHUCK TODD:
So Andrea, doesn't this mean that we shouldn't expect a lot of change in Washington because, in some ways, it's just that the ball got moved a couple of inches to the left. But the fight over that one or two yard lines is still the fight over one or two yard lines.
ANDREA MITCHELL:
Well, in some ways, yes. But I think there will be a lot of change simply because of the way the Trump White House broke lots of norms that went well beyond policy. So these are not issues that will be determined by the balance of power in the Senate, even. These are issues that are determined by the affect, the way a president handles the White House, the way he communicates to the American people, the way he treats people, the empathy, the care. Certainly the most important issue I think is the way he handles the pandemic, and I think that that was a defining issue of the campaign, in fact, because if Joe Biden had not cared about masks and about science and about people suffering and had big rallies and super-spreaders, I'm not sure this election would have turned out this way. Yes, he was hurt by doing a virtual campaign and not having rallies. That, along the margins, was very important. But he represented a difference to suburban women and to others who cared about the bullying noises and the communication, which Peggy Noonan, of course knows better about than anyone else as the speech writer that she was for the most impressive president we've had as a communicator. So I think a lot will change in ethics and in care of people and empathy.
CHUCK TODD:
Peggy Noonan, I was thinking a lot about your former boss that you wrote for, last night, when I was listening to Joe Biden. Because in some ways, he's got to do what Ronald Reagan was called to do in 1980. We could argue about the policies and which way things are moving, but there's a sentiment that needs to be uttered out there. What did you make of Joe Biden's remarks last night?
PEGGY NOONAN:
I think it signaled, as we've all noticed and see coming, which is a very different tone, a different way of speaking and presenting yourself politically. I found it hopeful. I found it rather deft. I really loved it when he quoted Eagles Wings, which is a song, a hymn, that all of the Evangelical churches in America know, and the Catholic churches too. I just found it sweet, a good beginning. I've got to tell you, I think the entire election, in a way, was somewhat triumphant. And you could see reverberations of that last night. We were so anxious about it, fighting at the polls, hacking. It worked. There's no credible widespread charges of malfeasance or corruption. It yielded up an outcome that was inherently moderate. Everybody got something. Democrats got the presidency. Republicans: state legislatures, House, maybe the Senate, we'll see. And the ultimate result struck me as inherently moderate and centrist, divided government. I think most people would say that's not the worst thing.
CHUCK TODD:
Well, we'll see. It's interesting if there's any reward for trying to work in the middle. That's been sort of the problem I think all of these elected officials had. The country asks -- throws divided government at them and then doesn't reward those who try to work in the middle. Anyway, let me pause the conversation there. When we come back, the groups that powered Joe Biden's election and what that could mean for future elections. Stick with us.
[BEGIN TAPE]
BIDEN SUPPORTER:
I'm so excited that we have a female that is going to represent women of color.
BIDEN SUPPORTER:
I'm actually still trying to take it all in. I'm ecstatic. As a fellow HBCU grad, I could not be more proud.
[END TAPE]
CHUCK TODD:
Welcome back, Data Download time, and a closer look at how former Vice President Joe Biden reclaimed that big, blue wall for Democrats. Biden flipped all three: Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania. He did so by bumping up support among three key groups: younger voters, diverse, urban voters and suburbanites. And you can see that in the county maps of all three states. We're going to start with young voters, specifically those in college towns. So, we're going to look at that in Wisconsin. President-elect Joe Biden won Wisconsin by less than a percentage, by about 20,000 votes. But take a look at how well he did in Dane County. Not a surprise that he was going to do well there, home of the University of Wisconsin. Biden got 75.5% of the vote there. Four points better than Hillary Clinton from four years ago, as you could see. And what it did is it basically combined the Gary Johnson and Jill Stein voters with Hillary Clinton, and he got that. But he also got a little bit of a bump up in the raw vote. So the result was Biden netted 35,000 more votes here than Hillary Clinton did four years ago. And by the way, 20,000-vote margin, he needed everything he can get. You can see similar bumps in other college town counties - in Michigan and in Pennsylvania. So what about urban voters? We've said all year that Biden would have to improve upon Hillary Clinton's turnout with Black voters in the Midwest. So let's look at that vote in the state of Michigan. And specifically Wayne County and Detroit. Obviously he won Michigan by just two and a half points. And as expected, he carried heavily Democratic Wayne County, home to Detroit, just as Hillary Clinton did. And he basically did it by the same margin as you can see here. But margins -- raw votes matter a lot because of those raw vote increases, he netted 33,000 more votes out of Wayne. Well, four years ago, President Trump carried the entire state of Michigan by fewer than 11,000 votes. So, finding 33,000 votes here mattered a lot. Then there's the suburban vote which President Trump tried hard to win back in the final weeks of the campaign. And where should we go take a look at that? Well, none other than Pennsylvania, and those Philly suburbs, specifically Montgomery County. This is easily what put Joe Biden over the top here, the checkmate state. And as you can see, the suburban vote and this increase here for Joe Biden, again, Hillary Clinton plus Gary Johnson gives you this Biden margin here, and it allowed him to win this suburb of Philadelphia by 26 points. Better than Clinton. Another place where Gary Johnson peeled away those votes. And in raw votes, Biden got about 38,000 more than Clinton. It's not a huge influx, but it was enough. And we saw similar vote gains in the suburbs of Detroit as well. Of course, President Trump's voters turned out too. Making this race much closer than we thought it would be. And meaning that without these three core groups narrowly increasing, Biden probably would not have clinched 270. When we come back, the election is over, right? Wrong. Two more big ones left to determine who controls the Senate. That's next.
CHUCK TODD:
Welcome back. The panel is back with us. Looking at the Senate right now, it is all tied at 48/48. Four races are still to be decided. The most likely outcome is that control of the Senate will be decided by two Georgia runoffs. The incumbent Republican David Perdue against Democrat Jon Ossoff, that's for the six-year seat. And then the Georgia special election, this was where Johnny Isakson retired, Democrat Raphael Warnock will face off against the appointed Republican Senator Kelly Loeffler. And by the way, their prize for winning that runoff will be having to immediately start running for reelection in 2022. Cornell, I want to start with that and the question of Georgia and whether -- we looked up, since 1992, Democrats are one for ten in general election runoffs of every level in Georgia. One for ten. That said, I want to show some movement, I want to compare Colorado from 2000 to 2008. 2008 is when Barack Obama carried it -- 2000 and 2004 -- you'll see here, Democrats did not target it. It was an eight-point win for the Republicans in 2000. A five-point win for Republicans in '04. And then, of course, by '08 it became a blue state. Or, well, we thought a purple state. And it turned out, no, Colorado's pretty blue. It's a double-digit win this year for Biden. Look at this Georgia pattern. I want to go back eight years. In 2012, Mitt Romney carried it by just under eight points. In 2016, Donald Trump carried it by just over five points. And in 2020 1/10 of 1%. But it went blue. Are we seeing Georgia just bypass – just sort of pass through swing state land a la Colorado and Virginia? Or is this a new reality for a while that is going to make Georgia just a knockdown, drag-out fight every cycle?
CORNELL BELCHER:
No, that's a really important question. And that's the million dollar question. Look, Joe Biden is going to win Georgia while garnering just 29% of the white vote. And that sort of speaks to the changes that we're seeing all across the country, especially out west and with the Latino vote. But also in the south with African-American votes as well as Latino votes. Chuck, you've been around a long time. You know, no Democrat has won with just garnering 29% of the vote. But if you look at sort of what happens, how Democrats run up the score in metro Atlanta and also, as you pointed out, those ring collars around Atlanta, that seems to be the majority here. But what you're seeing is in Georgia, like Colorado and like Nevada, and to a certain extent, like North Carolina, you know, there's jolts and there's backlash. But there's a long trend line here of states becoming more competitive and bluer as our demographics shift.
CHUCK TODD:
Andrea Mitchell, this fight for control of the Senate, I mean, I'm sorry, there's no precedent. Two seats, one battleground state. The control on the line. My gosh, it’s -- I almost -- I feel sorry for Georgia voters for the deluge of advertising that's coming.
ANDREA MITCHELL:
Well, it's an epic battle. And I think that Mitch McConnell and the Republicans are going to throw so much at it because they're going to make the argument, and you've seen this in ticket splitting throughout the country at other down-ballot races, that people seem to do -- want divided government. They were not so much as voting for Joe Biden as against Donald Trump, in many cases. And they wanted some moderation. A lot of the Republicans who are voting for Joe Biden wanted some way to validate that they're still Republicans. So they voted for Republicans in other races. You may see that in Georgia as well. But I wouldn't discount what Stacey Abrams has accomplished --
CHUCK TODD:
Yeah, it’s a good point.
ANDREA MITCHELL:
-- in energizing the vote. And you will see that particularly in the Warnock race.
CHUCK TODD:
Peggy Noonan, is there any risk here for Mitch McConnell to be as defiant to Joe Biden as he was to Barack Obama? Is that a -- he could look at it and say, "Hey, it worked for me politically, I'll keep it up." Should that be the way he handles Joe Biden?
PEGGY NOONAN:
Well, I'll tell you, they are two gentlemen at the ends of long and significant careers. They're old friends. They've made deals together and talked together for years. It would just feel, to me, that it would be in their benefits and in their parties' benefits and the country's benefit to get together and put together some things that you can make work and then make it work, get it through the system. America does not love -- we love drama and division, I guess. We have so much of it. But America loves it when things work. Both parties have a real something to gain in making things work again.
CHUCK TODD:
David Wasserman, if Donald Trump's not on the ballot, what does that mean in Georgia?
DAVID WASSERMAN:
Well, look, there's no question we had a couple of blind spots down-ballot as analysts in this election. First of all, Donald Trump being on the ballot was helpful to Republicans versus their 2018 performance in two ways; first of all, it meant that he was drawing out a lot of low-propensity conservative voters who would not ordinarily show up for a down-ticket Republican in a midterm or off-year election. But it also meant that independent voters were kind of free to take out their anger at President Trump on the top of the ticket and still vote for a Republican they like down-ballot. Now, of course, the Sun Belt is becoming more metropolitan. That's a big reason why Georgia is where it is. But we'll see.
CHUCK TODD:
We shall see. What a terrific panel. Thank you. That's all we have for today. Hey, thank you for watching. Just remember, we are 1,461 days away until election day 2024. So start those clocks on cable television now. We'll be there though. We'll be there then. We'll be back next week though because if it's Sunday, it's Meet the Press.