CHUCK TODD:
This Sunday: Political peril.
PRES. DONALD TRUMP:
I think this was a blessing from God that I caught it. This was a blessing in disguise.
CHUCK TODD:
President Trump's poll numbers continue to sink after a disastrous debate performance --
PRES. DONALD TRUMP:
Nobody will show up. It's true, nobody shows up to his rallies.
CHUCK TODD:
-- growing disdain over his handling of the coronavirus --
PRES. DONALD TRUMP:
It's going to disappear. It is disappearing.
CHUCK TODD:
-- including the infection of many connected to the White House --
DR. ANTHONY FAUCI:
We had a superspreader event in the White House.
CHUCK TODD:
-- and his erratic behavior towards his political enemies.
PRES. DONALD TRUMP:
This was the greatest political crime in the history of our country, and that includes Obama and it includes Biden.
CHUCK TODD:
With just three weeks to go, how does President Trump change the trajectory of this race? My guests this morning: Democratic Senator Dick Durbin of Illinois and Republican Senator Ted Cruz of Texas. Plus, Bill Gates, one-on-one --
BILL GATES:
We are running the worst testing system, in terms of who gets access to it, of any country.
CHUCK TODD:
-- on his efforts to make a vaccine available to low-and-middle-income countries around the world. Finally, that plot to kidnap Michigan's governor Gretchen Whitmer.
GOV. GRETCHEN WHITMER:
Hate groups heard the president's words not as a rebuke, but as a rallying cry, as a call to action.
CHUCK TODD:
Does President Trump bear responsibility for encouraging hate groups? Joining me for insight and analysis are: NBC News Chief White House Correspondent Hallie Jackson, Hugh Hewitt, host on the Salem Radio Network, María Teresa Kumar, president of Voto Latino and Jake Sherman, senior writer for Politico. Welcome to Sunday. It's Meet the Press.
ANNOUNCER:
From NBC News in Washington, the longest-running show in television history. This is Meet the Press with Chuck Todd.
CHUCK TODD:
Good Sunday morning. From his first day in office, Donald Trump has been the shock-and-awe president. But it's possible, with three weeks until Election Day, that Mr. Trump has lost his ability to shock and awe us. And with his poll numbers slipping, what we've seen in the past week has been especially Trumpian even for President Trump. He told Americans not to let the coronavirus dominate their lives after he received access to treatments most Americans still can't get -- claimed there's now a cure for Covid in a lengthy appearance on Rush Limbaugh's radio show -- appeared on another show for a so-called virtual medical exam with a friendly Fox doctor in another city -- urged his attorney general to indict Joe Biden and President Obama -- successfully pressured Secretary of State Mike Pompeo to agree to release Hillary Clinton emails -- pulled out of Covid relief talks, then pulled back in -- and pulled out of the next debate, then begged back in, then it was canceled. Are we shocked? Are we awed? Or are we shrugging our shoulders and shaking our heads? The flurry of activity has helped to put the president in political peril. In five battleground states, the 538 polling average has Joe Biden at 50 percent or higher. That includes Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania, the three states that put Mr. Trump over the top in 2016. And when you look at the other swing states, Biden is leading in every one but Texas -- and it's remarkable that we're even talking about Texas -- meaning that a 1980-like Reagan landslide is not totally out of the question. Even now with the president cleared by his doctor to return to campaigning, his sinking poll numbers have made fellow Republicans nervous about their own prospects in November.
PRES. DONALD TRUMP:
I'm feeling great, I don't know about you.
CHUCK TODD:
President Trump, trailing in the polls and increasingly erratic, spoke to hundreds at the White House on Saturday -- his first public event since being hospitalized.
PRES. DONALD TRUMP:
We're starting very, very big with our rallies.
CHUCK TODD:
Still reeling from his faltering debate performance, isolated in the White House, the president spent the week minimizing the virus.
PRES. DONALD TRUMP:
Don’t let it dominate you. Don’t be afraid of it. I think this was a blessing from God that I caught it. I’m telling you we have a cure, more than just a therapeutic, we have a cure.
CHUCK TODD:
In a 36-hour conservative media blitz, Mr. Trump spent two hours on the phone with Rush Limbaugh --
PRES. DONALD TRUMP:
They started investigating me when I was coming down the escalator, the beautiful golden escalator.
CHUCK TODD:
-- and taped what was billed as an on-camera “medical examination” with a Fox News medical contributor.
PRES. DONALD TRUMP:
I’ve been retested, and I know I'm at either the bottom of the scale or free.
CHUCK TODD:
On Friday, the president's top infectious disease expert blamed the Rose Garden ceremony two weeks ago for the White House outbreak.
DR. ANTHONY FAUCI:
We had a superspreader event in the White House and it was in a situation where people were crowded together and were not wearing masks.
REPORTER:
At what point do you think you contracted it, looking back?
PRES. DONALD TRUMP:
You know, I don't know, they had some big events at the White House. Perhaps there.
CHUCK TODD:
But this week, the president appeared to blame his infection on Gold Star military families.
PRES. DONALD TRUMP:
They come within an inch of my face sometimes. They want to hug me and they want to kiss me. And they do. And frankly, I'm not telling them to back up.
CHUCK TODD:
As his poll numbers drop, the president is searching for a political weapon -- publicly pressuring the Justice Department to prosecute Democrats --
PRES. DONALD TRUMP:
Unless Bill Barr indicts these people for crimes -- the greatest political crime in the history of our country -- then we're going to get little satisfaction unless I win.
CHUCK TODD:
-- and lashing out at Senator Kamala Harris.
PRES. DONALD TRUMP:
This monster that was onstage with Mike Pence.
CHUCK TODD:
Senate Republicans, hoping to change the subject, see Supreme Court nomination hearings this week as their only possible lifeline.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
I am going to lead the charge to confirm Judge Amy Barrett to the court.
CHUCK TODD:
But Republicans worry the Senate majority is at risk. Senator John Cornyn told the Houston Chronicle this week that Trump “let his guard down" and "got out over his skis" by playing down the virus threat. And vulnerable Republicans across the country are now distancing themselves.
VOICEOVER:
No matter who you're voting for for president, Susan Collins has never been more important to Maine.
MODERATOR:
Are you proud of your support for President Trump?
SEN. MARTHA MCSALLY:
Well, I’m proud that I'm fighting for Arizonans on things like cutting your taxes --
MODERATOR:
Senator, the question was: Are you proud of your support for President Trump?
SEN. MARTHA MCSALLY:
I'm proud to be fighting for Arizona every single day --
MODERATOR:
Is that a yes or no for President Trump?
SEN. MARTHA MCSALLY:
-- putting legislation on President Trump's desk.
REPORTER:
Are you proud of your support for Donald Trump?
SEN. CORY GARDNER:
I'm proud of the work that we have done together.
CHUCK TODD:
And joining me now is Republican Senator Ted Cruz of Texas. He's a member, of course, of the Senate Judiciary Committee and he's the author of a new book, One Vote Away: How a Single Supreme Court Seat Can Change History. Senator Cruz, congratulations on the book and welcome back to Meet the Press, sir.
SEN. TED CRUZ:
Chuck, thank you, good morning. Good to be with you.
CHUCK TODD:
Thank you. Let me start with, you've heard a little bit of what the president did over the last week, pulling -- getting out of talks with Congress and Covid relief, pulling back in. Pulling out of the debates, trying to get back in. It's been a whirlwind, perhaps to be charitable. Do you believe the president's behavior is helping the Republican Party right it's ship right now?
SEN. TED CRUZ:
Well, I will say, first of all, I'm certainly grateful that the president has recovered from Covid. It was a scary several days when you had both the president and first lady diagnosed and sick. The entire country was lifting them up in prayer that they would get healthy. We need a strong president. We need a healthy president. I can tell you in the last week, I've spoken to the president twice since he came home from the hospital. And on the phone, he sounds strong, he sounds energetic. And I'm grateful that the doctors were able to treat him and that he is getting healthy. That is a very good thing.
CHUCK TODD:
Yeah. I'm sorry. Go ahead.
SEN. TED CRUZ:
As I was going to say, look, as for the rest, we're less than a month out from Election Day. It's the wild and woolly world of politics now, where both sides are taking shots at each other. And both sides are trying to turn voters out. And I guess we'll get the answer to that on November 3rd.
CHUCK TODD:
You seemed to sound the alarm late last week in an interview with CNBC that you were worried about a complete sweep. What is it specifically that you believe has put you in a situation where you could lose everything, the White House, the Senate, down the line?
SEN. TED CRUZ:
Well, you know, a lot of the headlines out of that interview caught half of what I said. So the point I made is that I think there's an incredible volatility in politics, right now. The delta between possible outcomes is as wide as I've ever seen. So I said, "Look, I think there's a scenario, I believe President Trump can win. In fact, I believe he can have a significant victory and Republicans could take both houses of Congress. But I also think it's possible that we see a Democratic sweep where they win everything and it is a victory of Watergate proportions." And I don't recall an election in my life with the spread, the delta between those two possible outcomes, this close to an election being that wide. And Chuck, I think the outcome really turns on two things. Number one, it turns on optimism. If people are optimistic and hopeful about the future, if they're going back to work, that will be a factor in a very good election for Republicans.
If they're pessimistic and depressed and hopeless, that will help the Democrats. And number two, turnout. As you know, historically, we have two kinds of elections, persuasion elections and turnout elections. Persuasion election, you're fighting over a small band of voters in the middle who are undecided. Turnout elections, both sides are trying to turn out their base. I think this is a turnout election. I think the hard left is showing up, no matter what. They hate the president. And the big open question is, does everybody else show up? I hope that they do. I'm working hard to turn everyone else out. If people turn out, it'll be a good election for Republicans. If people stay home, if they're demoralized, that's how we get into a terrible election.
CHUCK TODD:
I want to get your reaction to something that the majority leader, Mitch McConnell, said this week about the way the White House handles the virus. Take a listen.
[BEGIN TAPE]
SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL:
I can tell you I haven't been in the White House since August the 6th and I personally didn't feel that they were approaching the protection from this illness in the same way that I thought was appropriate for the Senate.
[END TAPE]
CHUCK TODD:
Senator Cruz, I know you haven't, I think, been to the White House since the Middle East announcements and those peace agreements with Israel. Do you have -- do you share the same concern as Senator McConnell when it comes to the White House versus the United States Senate?
SEN. TED CRUZ:
Look, I think the White House has put serious measures in place to keep people safe. I know for months, the standing rule has been that anyone meeting with the president has to get Covid tested that day. So I've had multiple tests when I've gone over to the White House. And every person in the room has been tested. It's, frankly, the only place you go where every person in the room is tested. As you noted, the last time I went to the White House was for the announcement of the historic Middle East peace deal between Israel and the UAE. That was on the South Lawn. It was outside in chairs. And that was really a piece of history. And so, listen, any time you do anything right now in this age of pandemic, there is some risk of getting sick. We're fighting this pandemic. We're fighting it hard. But it remains a serious threat. And I think we need to continue battling, battling the virus and doing what we can to keep people safe, but at the same time I don't think we should shut the entire country down, close every small business, destroy people's jobs. And so there's a balance we've got to find. A balance that reflects common sense. I think that's where most Americans are. I know it's where most Texans are.
CHUCK TODD:
I want to ask you about these Judiciary Committee hearings, but first, the safety of it. Senator Joni Ernst from Iowa, she said that she thinks it's a good idea if everybody did get a test before the confirmation hearings in Judiciary. As she said, "Look, if we're going to be working in close proximity over long hours, it's probably not a bad idea." Do you think it would be prudent if everybody got tested, considering, look, you're self-quarantining right now because of Mike Lee?
SEN. TED CRUZ:
Well, listen, I think all the senators are following the guidance of the attending physician at the Capitol. As for me personally, as you noted, I'm at the tail end of a self-quarantine. I got tested. I came out negative. And I am spending two weeks sitting here in my apartment in D.C., actually frustratingly enough, away from Heidi, away from the girls. But I want to do what is reasonable and beneficial to protect the safety of others. When you look at the hearing, I mean, the Senate has had about 150 hearings that have been either remote or hybrid. At this point, in the age of Covid, the Senate's gotten pretty good at this. I think most of the senators are likely to be physically present. Some may participate via virtual interaction with Judge Barrett. And starting tomorrow, I think we're going to have a full and fair hearing and it's going to be an opportunity to consider Judge Barrett's qualifications. I hope it doesn't go down the road it went last time. I hope we don't see Senate Democrats turning it into a political circus like they did with Justice Kavanaugh. I hope we don't see the kind of personal smears, smears directed at her family, directed at her faith. If the discussions next week are about her record and her jurisprudence and her fitness to be a judge, great, that's what the Senate should be doing. If it becomes personal attacks, I very much hope the Democrats refrain from doing that.
CHUCK TODD:
Just a button. Are you open to having everybody get tested before the hearing begins though?
SEN. TED CRUZ:
I think we should follow the guidance of the Capitol physicians. Look, one of the realities on this question, and it's on every question that comes up, is the instant this vacancy occurred, the instant Justice Ginsburg passed away, Senate Democrats were united in saying, "Do not fill this vacancy. Do not fill this vacancy." And so at every step, they're arguing for whatever will delay things. And their objective is just delay beyond Election Day. I understand why they're doing it. They have --
CHUCK TODD:
So you think the call for testing is a delay, is a delay tactic?
SEN. TED CRUZ:
I think they are looking for anything to delay things even a day, or two, or three. And I think that Senate Republicans will follow the guidance, the medical guidance, of the Capitol physician. We’ll go through — we've managed to have hearings for months in a way that has been safe and has protected everyone's safety. We do it socially distanced. We do it following medical guidance, and we'll continue following the medical guidance. But the delay tactics of the Democrats aren't going to work. And I think we're going to see, by the way, some more procedural games and shenanigans. I don't know what they're going to do, whether it's try to boycott meetings or try to impeach the president. But I think they're going to try to do something to delay it. It's not going to work. I believe we have the votes. And I believe Judge Barrett, on the merits, is going to be confirmed, and confirmed by the end of the month before Election Day.
CHUCK TODD:
Senator Ted Cruz, Republican from Texas. Thank you for coming on and sharing your perspective with us this morning. I appreciate it.
SEN. TED CRUZ:
Chuck, thank you. I appreciate it. I've got to note briefly, the book on the Supreme Court, number one bestseller in the country on Amazon. So if you want to know --
CHUCK TODD:
Well, there you go. Congratulations.
SEN. TED CRUZ:
-- happening at the court, it's a good way to do it.
CHUCK TODD:
You've got it. You got your book plug in. Thank you, Senator. And joining me now on the other side of the aisle is Senate Democratic Whip Dick Durbin of Illinois, who also sits on the Judiciary Committee. Senator Durbin, welcome back to Meet the Press. So, I ended with the court with Senator Cruz, so let's start with the court with you. You spoke with Judge Barrett this week. How did your conversation go?
SEN. DICK DURBIN:
It was, it was a good constructive, positive conversation. I asked her, not some deep, legal, philosophical questions. We just chatted for a minute, and I really wanted to try to understand her experience as a person when it came to healthcare because she is being sent on assignment to the Supreme Court by President Trump. And we know what that assignment is -- eliminate the Affordable Care Act, which protects 23 million Americans, and be there if the president needs her on an election contest. How do I know this? Because the president makes no secret of it. He has said it over and over again. So we discussed my experience as a father with a sick child and no health insurance, and we talked about what that meant to families.
CHUCK TODD:
Setting aside the issue of the timing of the nomination, did you find that she's qualified for the job?
SEN. DICK DURBIN:
Well, qualifications are an interesting measure. I voted against her the last time because she literally had no trial experience -- or very little when she was seeking this position. In terms of whether she understands the law, of course. She has been a professor, a Constitutional law professor at a law school. And that's a pretty clear indication of her background.
CHUCK TODD:
What is the Democratic tactics here? And the reason I ask that is, you do have some in your party's base that would like to see you guys go after this nomination, fight this nomination hard. You have others who are looking at the election in three weeks and think, “Hey, don't, don't create a situation that somehow disrupts what looks like a current trajectory for the Democrats.” What do you say to those of the base who are worried you're not going to fight this nomination hard enough?
SEN. DICK DURBIN:
Well, I can tell you this: The base is correct in believing that the Republicans have changed the rules. Four years ago, you remember very well, Mitch McConnell and the Senate Republicans, to a person, said that President Obama should not fill the Scalia vacancy and that, in fact, we should wait until after the election and let the American people decide. Now they have completely reversed themselves. What we are focusing on when it comes to the Democrats in the Senate Judiciary Committee is a simple fact. Two Republican senators have said they're not going to participate in this farce. If two more join them, then it's game over. We're now at a point where the American people do have the last word on the next Supreme Court Justice, and take a look at the composition, the Republican composition on the Senate Judiciary Committee. Let's start with Texas. Senator Cornyn is in a very tight race for re-election. He's also in a state where there are 1.7 million people who will lose their health insurance when Amy Coney Barrett votes to eliminate that program, another 12 million who have pre-existing conditions. Now you just go down the table there. I should have started with the chairman, Lindsey Graham, in the state of South Carolina. He has 242,000 who will lose their insurance if Amy Coney Barrett eliminates the Affordable Care Act and 2 million who have pre-existing conditions. Iowa, Joni Ernst, 187,000 will lose their insurance. North Carolina, 500,000 will lose their insurance. So you want to know the point we're going to make? We're making a point that this not only has an impact on the lives of so many innocent Americans, it could impact the members of this committee.
CHUCK TODD:
I want to play a quote for you from former Vice President Joe Biden on this issue of expanding the court. Let me play it for you and ask you about it on the other side.
[BEGIN TAPE]
JOE BIDEN:
You'll know my opinion on court packing when the election is over. Now, look, the moment I answer that question, the headline in every one of your papers will be about that, other than focusing on what's happening now.
[END TAPE]
CHUCK TODD:
Senator Durbin, did the fact that Vice President Biden used the phrase "court packing," was that a tell of where the vice president stands on this? That he doesn't want to see this happen?
SEN. DICK DURBIN:
Well, I can tell you that we're getting this question. It's a common question being asked because the American people have watched the Republicans packing the court over the last three and a half years. And they brag about it. They've taken every vacancy and filled it. Did you know that they've sent to us -- and we have approved only with their votes, I might add -- ten people who have been judged unanimously unqualified by the American Bar Association? Do you know how many judicial nominees who came from Obama who were judged unanimously unqualified? None. So, we are dealing with people on the court, packed into the court, with little or no qualification, who are going to be there for a long time. So it's understandable that Republicans raise the issue of court packing.
CHUCK TODD:
Senator though, the lack of answering this question sounds like -- as if the Democrats are trying to game the results here and just trying to see what happens. And in some ways, it may be that it comes across as a negotiating tool with trying to maybe convince a handful of Senate Republicans to delay these confirmation hearings. Is that what this is? Is this a negotiating ploy?
SEN. DICK DURBIN:
It is not a negotiating ploy. We are dealing with the reality. A lifetime appointment to the highest court in the land. McConnell has changed the rules for the Republican senators. We are running this through at a breakneck pace without the investigation that usually comes with these. And those are the issues. And what we're trying to drive home to the American people is this makes a difference in your life as to whether or not you have health insurance, whether or not, with a preexisting condition you can afford health insurance. And we believe that, once the Republican voters across this country wake up to the reality of the strategy, many of them are going to say to their senators, "Listen, this is not what we bargained for. We may be conservative, but we're not crazy. Our family needs health insurance protection." And when I hear Ted Cruz say, "Well, it really hinges on optimism." I don't know what polls he's looking at, but the ones I look at say three out of four Americans say this country's moving in the wrong direction. Two out of three say it's going to get worse. And why wouldn't they, with the antics of the president -- these super spreader balcony scenes at the White House, dismissing the dangerous nature of this virus, saying that he's had a miracle cure but won't release the results of his testing. I mean, it's understandable people are skeptical of the Republican message and are fearful of what's going to happen if this Supreme Court nominee goes through and threatens their very health insurance.
CHUCK TODD:
Very quickly, I want to ask you about Cal Cunningham, the Democratic nominee for U.S. Senate in North Carolina, a state you brought up just now, earlier in the conversation. He's dealing with some allegations of an extramarital affair, some texts that came out. Are you comfortable the way he has handled this? Do you think he needs to provide further clarification?
SEN. DICK DURBIN:
I haven't followed it that closely, other than through headlines in the Washington papers and Chicago papers. I think he has admitted wrongdoing, apologized for it and the campaign continues. I don't know the impact on voters in North Carolina. They make the final judgment. But he's not been evasive when it was brought to light, and he's faced it squarely. I think at this point, that's the best he can do.
CHUCK TODD:
All right, Senator Dick Durbin, Democrat from Illinois. Thanks for coming on and sharing your perspective with us, sir. Appreciate it.
SEN. DICK DURBIN:
Great. Thanks, Chuck.
CHUCK TODD:
You got it. When we come back, very few people saw the 1980 Reagan landslide coming from election night. Could another one be brewing right under our noses? Panel is next.
CHUCK TODD:
Welcome back. The panel is with us. NBC News Chief White House Correspondent Hallie Jackson; Hugh Hewitt, host on The Salem Radio Network; María Teresa Kumar, president of Voto Latino; and Jake Sherman, senior writer for Politico. Look, I want to set up the conversation with Peggy Noonan and what she wrote. It was a very elegant way of trying to write about the current state of politics: "No one will talk about it in public, because they're not idiots. Journalists don't want to be embarrassed if they've got it wrong; Democrats don't want to encourage complacency; Republicans don't want to demoralize the troops; and the networks have to keep everyone hopped up on the horse race." I will take a small offense to the last part of that comment. But Jake Sherman, you know, is this the thing that everybody's whispering about on Capitol Hill and around Washington, as far as you're concerned, as well these days?
JAKE SHERMAN:
Yes. I mean, if you look across the board, polls out this morning have Donald Trump down by 12 points, have him losing almost every state in the Midwest. I've talked to people in the last couple days, and I'm going to write this in the next couple days: Republicans are going to lose seats in the House of Representatives. They are at risk of obviously losing their Senate majority. So yes, I mean, absolutely. I think it's undoubtedly true that Republicans, at this point -- and this clip might become famous if I'm wrong -- are in a really tough spot.
CHUCK TODD:
Hallie Jackson, how self-aware -- well, let me ask it this way. How self-aware of this current situation are the people around the president?
HALLIE JACKSON:
So that's a good question, Chuck, as far as the distinction between the president and then the people around him. And I would say this. There is an acknowledgment that the public polling is not obviously going their way. I still hear things from folks close to the campaign, around the campaign, about how internal polls show them doing better. There is a sense that people who were around the president four years ago in 2016 saw the polls maybe not moving their direction then. Obviously, it was a lot different of a landscape in 2016. But there's, from some of these folks, this sort of underdog fighter sense that they have lingering from the last four years. I will also say this, Chuck. For the president himself, I think he knows that, if there is a way for him to change some of this, right, to change the slide that he seems to be on, it's by getting out. It's by getting out and doing rallies, talking to people, being out there. His coronavirus diagnosis means he has not been able to do that. And I can tell you that, based on sources that I've talked to this weekend, he is climbing the walls to be able to get out of the White House compound. He's in this sort of mode, as one person put it, where he's in his, you know, "Nobody's listening to me. I'm right and everybody else is wrong" kind of attitude. Where he feels like he wants to be flexing his muscles, getting out, dictating some of these things. The challenge, of course, is that he has a team of people around him who are trying to channel some of that energy, if you will, into a way that could be potentially productive. And there's a real question mark of whether the president is willing to go along with those things or not right now. The bottom line is he's got these rallies set up Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday in various key battleground states: Florida, Pennsylvania, for example. To him, that's what's going to make the difference.
CHUCK TODD:
Hugh Hewitt, are we in October, 1996 territory? Here's Ken Spain, a Republican strategist, who told us on Friday, "Six months ago, Republicans were hoping that we would be talking about Senate races in Colorado, Arizona and Maine. Instead, there's concern about the potential outcomes in states like South Carolina, Georgia and Kansas." The point being is, it was about this time in October of '96 when the word went out, "It's every Republican for themselves. Don't worry about Bob Dole anymore." How close are Senate Republicans to that mindset?
HUGH HEWITT:
A week ago, they were very close to that, Chuck. But this has been a week of enormous relief. I've interviewed a dozen Republican senators and the vice presidential debate really turned it around for a lot of Republicans, as did the president's sort of powerful energy on conservative media, getting back out there. They're not afraid he's going to be out of the picture -- generating base enthusiasm. I remember '96 when Jack Kemp just got completely creamed by Al Gore in the vice presidential debate. Well, this time, Vice President Pence played direct to Pennsylvania on fracking, direct to Pennsylvania on the Supreme Court. So I think across the Senate map -- I believe the president is down in double digits, but closing nationally. But across the Senate map, this was a very good week. And that's not even counting the Cal Cunningham collapse in North Carolina.
CHUCK TODD:
María Teresa Kumar, I will say this. I was surprised at the lack of enthusiasm that I heard from Ted Cruz about the president's political standing.
MARÍA TERESA KUMAR:
Well, he said that he's expecting a bloodbath, right? And I think that that's exactly why you have individuals now saying, "Shoot, we basically gave our Republican party over to Donald Trump. And he has such an outsized figure. Our destiny is intertwined." You shared a clip of McSally. She couldn't distance herself from the president because she knows that if she denounces him, all of a sudden, she is also on his bad list. But the people of Arizona also recognize that she is not the person that is going to get them out of this rut. When you look at the polls and you see that 79% of individuals are fearful for this election, it's not that they're fearful of Covid or health care or the environment. They're fearful of the person at the top, at the White House, making these decisions. This is going to be an election where folks are going to be going out because they're fearful. And they're fearful about their safety. And what Kamala Harris did so brilliantly during the vice presidential debate was that she was talking to suburban white women. Saying, "Your life does not have to be this way. You're right now feeling insecure. Come back to the Democratic party, like you did during the 2018 election." And that's who she needed to win over. And I think she did an excellent job.
CHUCK TODD:
You know, María Teresa, you actually provided a good segue of a graphic I wanted to put up for everybody here. This issue of who's hopeful and who's fearful. This was fascinating in Pew. Your feelings on the state of the country. And they asked a general question. Are you fearful or are you hopeful? What was interesting was, while the majority of the country said they're fearful, Biden supporters, Hallie Jackson, were more likely to be fearful. 79% of Biden supporters called themselves fearful. Trump supporters called themselves hopeful, 64%. I will say this. Fear motivates. The Trump supporters were more fearful four years ago. And that worked.
HALLIE JACKSON:
And you're starting to see that. And I'm struck by something that Senator Cruz said, Chuck, that he's been talking about, which is this idea that, if fear does motivate, it's an acknowledgment from the senator that Democrats would likely do better. And it's because of those poll numbers that you're talking about, Chuck. So you're seeing Republicans trying to take that and spin it as Democrats are the ones painting this sort of dark and dystopian message to try to motivate people to come out to the polls. You know, in reality, some of the language and rhetoric that we've heard from President Trump, what he's been running on so far, has been this message of law and order, which his supporters appreciate. Critics say, "Listen, you're talking about trying to scare, for example, suburban women in some of these key voting constituencies with the language that you're using and with the picture that you're painting." So I do think that is something that is going to be critical over the next couple of weeks.
CHUCK TODD:
Well, I will say this. The political landscape, if it is a fearful landscape, we know that that usually is a greater motivator. Let me pause the conversation there. When we come back, how likely is it that we will have a Covid vaccine soon? And who will get it? Coming up, my interview with Bill Gates and his work to get a vaccine available and distributed to people, no matter their income, all over the world.
CHUCK TODD:
Welcome back. Despite what President Trump claimed on Friday, there is no cure, nor is there a vaccine for the coronavirus, at least not yet. But when a vaccine becomes available, Bill Gates will be ready. The Gates Foundation has committed some $350 million to support the global response to Covid-19. Much of that money is being spent to purchase and distribute a vaccine to low and middle income countries around the world. And Bill Gates joins me now from Seattle. Mr. Gates, welcome to Meet the Press, sir.
BILL GATES:
Thank you.
CHUCK TODD:
I want to start with those comments from the president about the treatment he received. Because these monoclonal antibodies, he has called this cocktail that he got, this experimental cocktail he got, he has called it a cure. Now, this is something you've been talking about too as well, and I think the Foundation has supported research on this. Could this become the leading therapeutic for the coronavirus as we go forward?
BILL GATES:
Yeah, the word cure is inappropriate, because it won't work for everyone. But yes, of all the therapeutics, this is the most promising. And so we've been working with the companies doing antibodies. We reserved factory capacity all the way back in the spring, and now we're partnered with Eli Lilly, who with Regeneron, has been the fastest to get these antibodies ready. They could reduce the death rate quite a bit. So far we only have dexamethasone, which we funded a U.K. trial that helped with that. And so adding this to the tools would be a great thing.
CHUCK TODD:
What's realistic about getting access to this for hundreds of thousands of people that may need it? Right now the president is the president, so he's got some -- he’s got access to this experimental treatment. How quickly could this be distributed around the country?
BILL GATES:
Well, very, very few people have had it because it's not approved, and the manufacturing is just ramping up. Now the pharmaceutical companies are working with each other, sharing capacity, very focused on this. It's a very impressive story, just like on the vaccine side. A little bit, you don't want politicians saying something should be approved, because it's wrong to think of political pressure as needing to be appropriate in these cases. I hope the FDA, you know, can take the data, which is looking quite good, and get these out, you know, in the next few months. Because we have so little to save lives. And, you know, we're going back up to record levels of deaths here in the fall.
CHUCK TODD:
Let's move to the vaccine. We know there's a lot of vaccine candidates out there. What is -- from where you're perched, where are we on this progress and when do you expect to see the first one that can be used for, say, elderly and those first responders?
BILL GATES:
Yeah, it's very impressive how the pharmaceutical industry has diverted resources, gotten involved. The U.S. government, this is one category we've actually done a decent job, has funded the research here. And so I think it's likely by early next year that several of these vaccines will get that emergency use authorization.
CHUCK TODD:
I want to end our conversation going back to the pandemic and the overall response. You know, it's interesting, for the first time in its 208 year history, The New England Journal of Medicine took a stance on the U.S. presidential election. They didn't name the president himself, but here's what the editors wrote: "The federal government has largely abandoned disease control to the states. Instead of relying on expertise, the administration has turned to uninformed opinion leaders and charlatans who obscure the truth and facilitate the promulgation of outright lies. We should not abet them and enable the deaths of thousands more Americans by allowing them to keep their jobs." Let me ask you this. Can we do a reset in our response? Or is it too late?
BILL GATES:
Well, there are lots of additional deaths coming if we don't get our act together. The fact that the testing results don't come back within 24 hours, we reimburse for these worthless things. We are running the worst testing system, in terms of who gets access to it, of any country. And so yes, that's not that hard to fix. You do have to admit that you haven't done a good job, and make some straightforward changes. In that case, just the way the reimbursement is done is crazy. So there is an ability to, in terms of leadership that helps with the right behaviors, to protect people. We can still do a lot better. Other than funding research, we fall very low in terms of how -- the quality of our response, which is the opposite of what you would've expected. And so there'll be a lot of work in the postmortem. Why didn't we pay attention to the warnings? Why did we de-staff the positions that would've worked in these areas? But, you know, just trying to assess blame is not what the focus should be now. The focus should be now is get the diagnostics right. Don't have the -- say that the FDA is being pressured to do something so that their integrity is clear-cut. And then, you know, on the vaccine front, get it to everyone with the right message, including get it to the world so the disease isn't constantly coming back in to our country.
CHUCK TODD:
I guess the question is is it -- do you fear that the mask debate, basically it's been lost? I mean, the state of Florida, the governor there is telling the NFL teams, "Go ahead and fill your stadiums to capacity. It's okay." There's no mask mandate, no anything. Now, the football teams have decided not to do this, Mr. Gates, but this is the rule there. If this is where we are, does it basically mean that the vaccine is our only hope of getting back to normal?
BILL GATES:
Yeah, well, society should be able to have things like schooling that get a priority versus certain more entertainment-related things. And I guess, you know, politicians will show what their value system is there. The only way we'll get completely back to normal is by having, maybe not the first generation of vaccines, but eventually a vaccine that is super effective, and that a lot of the people take, and that we get the disease eliminated on a global basis. That is where we can finally start taking all the problems that have been created, in education, mental health and start to build back in a positive way.
CHUCK TODD:
Bill Gates, obviously founder of Microsoft, one of the biggest philanthropists around the world these days. Thanks for coming on and sharing your perspective with us, sir. I appreciate it.
BILL GATES:
Great to talk to you.
CHUCK TODD:
And when we come back, what to watch for on election night. A whole lot more than the White House could wind up changing hands. Stay with us.
CHUCK TODD:
Welcome back. Data Download time. As Joe Biden's lead hits double digits nationally, a lot of Republicans are worrying about what that could mean for them down-ballot, and not just in the House and Senate. This year there are 86 legislative chambers in 44 states that are also on the ballot. And in a census year, Democrats could take away the GOP's huge advantage when it comes to redistricting. So, how likely is it that Democrats could flip some of these state legislative chambers? First, let's look at three highly competitive states that have been controlled by Republicans for a decade. In all three, Republicans are in danger of losing their majorities, especially with Joe Biden ahead in the FiveThirtyEight polling average in Michigan and North Carolina—and he's also up by a point now in Iowa. Then there's Texas. Republicans have held the Lone Star state for almost two decades. The Texas House was last controlled by Democrats in 2002. Winning it back would be a steep climb. They need to flip nine seats. But Texas looks like a Trump-Biden swing state now and that could filter down to the state House. What about Florida? The Florida State Senate was last controlled by Democrats in 1994, last century. Democrats would need a net gain of four seats to win it back. Of course, Florida is always neck-and-neck at the presidential level. Right now Biden is up by four points in the averages. Lastly, Arizona. The last time Democrats had control of the state House there was 1966, but they only need to gain two seats for a flip—in a state that's clearly trending blue. To be clear, it would take a blue tsunami for Democrats to succeed in all of these states, but with less than a month until election day, a lot of signs suggest there may be real potential down-ballot problems for Republicans. And with redistricting on the line, these legislative elections will help determine Congress for the next decade. When we come back, that plot to kidnap Michigan's governor, Gretchen Whitmer, and what it says about our politics today.
[BEGIN TAPE]
GOV. GRETCHEN WHITMER:
Hate groups heard the president's words not as a rebuke, but as a rallying cry, as a call to action. When our leaders meet with, encourage, or fraternize with domestic terrorists, they legitimize their actions and they are complicit. When they stoke and contribute to hate speech, they are complicit.
[END TAPE]
CHUCK TODD:
That was Michigan governor, Gretchen Whitmer -- after the news of the arrest of 13 separate individuals charged with either state or federal crimes basically in a collusion, in an attempt that they wanted to kidnap the governor and apparently put her on trial. The president responded to Governor Whitmer's remarks on Twitter, saying, "Governor Whitmer of Michigan has done a terrible job. Rather than say thank you, she calls me a white supremacist. Governor Whitmer, open up your state, open up your schools, and open up your churches." María Teresa Kumar, this was a frightening event and I'm struck at how partisan the response already is.
MARÍA TERESA KUMAR:
Well, you have a president of the United States, when asked on public television during a
debate whether or not he would denounce the Proud Boys, a white supremacist organization, he not only said that -- he told them to stand by and stand back. That's not a clear denunciation of white supremacy. When you look at what he was saying and tweeting against the governor back in April because of what she was encouraging, the state of Michigan to be safe, these individuals got politicized by his tweets and they started mobilizing and doing a plot. But this is what was really interesting. When you see why -- what finally triggered them was the head of the plot decided that he couldn't get into his gym and he was fed up. Talk about incredible privilege of why he was deciding to do this. And this is where the president can't even denounce even there that this was happening. What Governor Whitmer did was say thank you to the law enforcement. And when we're headed into this election, Chuck, this is what concerns me. I'm part of a non-partisan national election crisis task force. In my 20 years of working in politics, we've never had to convene such a thing. Michael Chertoff is part of this task force. Norm Ornstein is part of this task force. And our biggest concern is will law enforcement have enough support to ensure that during this election season that we're currently in, that they can appropriately thwart these kind of attempts that we're going to see. And the only way that we can ensure that that is true is if the president right now starts denouncing that potential chaos.
CHUCK TODD:
Hugh Hewitt, the president's decision to go on the attack on Governor Whitmer, not
denounce this terrorist threat against her, big political mistake by him?
HUGH HEWITT:
No, I don't think so. I think they're terrorists and I think we've got to be very clear that they don't define political speech in Michigan any more than the people who assault police define the people seeking police reform. They're terrorists. They're McVeigh-level dangerous terrorists and I'm glad the FBI did their job, but it ought not to put off limits any criticism of the governor's approach to the virus or any praise of the governor's approach to the virus. I think the president's going to play hard, hard, energetic political mainstream tactics from here until the end. I think he's going to seize on the Supreme Court. I think he's going to seize on court packing not being answered. I wrote about it in the Post this morning. But I don't think he has to respond to every allegation from everyone in every situation.
CHUCK TODD:
But Hallie Jackson, here's what had struck me about this. You would assume the president
had been told about this in his PDB. This is not something you would keep from the president. The president had to have known about this probably for weeks. And he didn’t even -- there was no thought of calling her up, no thought of doing something like that. I mean, it seemed a very intentional decision that he wanted no part of this. And then when it got -- when he didn't like what he heard, he went on the attack.
HALLIE JACKSON:
Well, but Chuck, that's also part of a pattern from what we've seen from the president in instances like this before. Now, you have to remember he is somebody -- and this is what I hear all the time from people around the White House, in the White House, on the campaign, that the president has denounced white supremacy in the past. That is technically accurate. He certainly has done that. At the same time he has done that when he has come under immense political pressure to do so. It is not something that in the past he has easily volunteered. And that is where critics are especially concerned about the president's rhetoric, his language on this. You have to remember, too, Chuck, that oftentimes the president will say he doesn't know about something until it is sort of the main headline that he's getting pummeled with questions about. And I think, too, what happened recently with the situation of the QAnon conspiracy theory, for example, the Proud Boys, the president sort of says, "Well, I'm not super clear on what that is," even though the expectation is and the presumption is, from people who understand these sorts of national security threats, because Hugh is right, this is terrorism, what happened --
CHUCK TODD:
Right.
HALLIE JACKSON:
-- that the president would have been briefed about those things, Chuck.
CHUCK TODD:
Jake, on Capitol Hill, I just was surprised that there wasn't sort of more bipartisan concern, more bipartisan sort of calls to, wow, we’ve really -- this has gotten out of whack. There seems to be a lot of muted responses particularly on the right.
JAKE SHERMAN:
Yes, that's right, missed opportunity, right, because the story could have been very easily
that this was a terrorist group that had plotted to kidnap and harm the governor of Michigan. Instead it's a story, a multi-day story here on a Sunday, about the lack of response from the president of the United States not saying, you know -- praising the law enforcement and saying it's a horrible thing that's happened, but instead attacking the governor. And on Capitol Hill there's the same kind of tone. So it's an unforced error by Republicans to not just go out and say that immediately and then more on from this awful instance.
CHUCK TODD:
Is it the same reason, Jake? They just don't want to get on the wrong side of the president?
JAKE SHERMAN:
I think that's probably right. I think it's just very tribal, right, Chuck? It's a very tribal kind of response.
CHUCK TODD:
No. And certainly we hear it sometimes a lot on this show. Anyway, thank you, all. I really appreciate it. Before we go, I want to let you know about a special Chuck Toddcast that we've got going. Florida, Florida, Florida. It is a five-part series exploring the 2000 Bush v. Gore recount and why that crisis is still relevant today and could be after November 3rd. The first episode is available right now wherever you get your podcasts. And the subsequent episodes will be released this week. That's all we have for today. Thank you for watching at this early hour. We'll be back next week at our normal time because if it's Sunday, it's Meet The Press.