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The Ed Show for Friday, May 18, 2012

Read the transcript to the Friday show

Guests: Michael Eric Dyson, Armstrong Williams, Robert Reich, Sen. Sherrod Brown, Nick Hanauer,
Arsenio Hall

ED SCHULTZ, HOST: Good evening, Americans. And welcome to THE ED
SHOW tonight from New York.

The right wing keeps trying the draw a connection between President
Obama`s policies and Reverend Jeremiah Wright`s teachings, but insists that
Mitt Romney`s faith is off-limits. They say it`s all about vetting the
president. Tonight, we`re going to do the same for Mitt Romney.

This is THE ED SHOW -- let`s get to work.


SEAN HANNITY, FOX NEWS: The president`s relationship with the
Reverend Jeremiah Wright is a very important campaign issue.

SCHULTZ (voice-over): The right wing thinks it`s fair to tie
President Obama to Reverend Wright and ask how sitting in his church
influenced the president`s world view.

been in his church for 20 years and not assimilated some of the things that
he was talking about.

SCHULTZ: MSNBC contributor Michael Eric Dyson and Armstrong Williams
are here on the controversy. We`ll ask if Romney`s Mormonism is off limits
for Democrats.

MITT ROMNEY (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: That`s your stimulus dollars
at work -- a bridge that goes nowhere.

SCHULTZ: Mitt Romney is still stirring up fears about the stimulus.

ROMNEY: This president is leading us towards Greece.

SCHULTZ: Former Labor Secretary Robert Reich joins me to debunk
Romney`s lies.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Rich people don`t create jobs. Calling ourselves
job creators isn`t just inaccurate. It`s just disingenuous.

SCHULTZ: A venture capitalist says lowering taxes won`t create any
jobs. He`ll prove it`s not the 1 percent who creates jobs but you the

And Arsenio Hall joins us tonight to weigh in on all the hottest
political and cultural news.


SCHULTZ: Good to have you with us tonight, folks. Thanks for

Conservatives are still debating the plan to attack President Obama
with Reverend Jeremiah Wright. They say it`s fair game to examine whether
there is a direct line between faith and policy. They say we need to know
whether President Obama`s former pastor of 20 years affected his politics
and his policy.

Here is former presidential candidate Herman Cain jumping into the


CAIN: How could he have been in his church for 20 years and not
assimilated some of the thing he was talking about. So, no, it is not
racist. It`s just that the liberals want to play the race card when it is


SCHULTZ: President Obama has no fear of this kind of examination.
The Jeremiah Wright controversy blew up in a big way four years ago.
Candidate Obama answered it with a speech on race.


occasionally fierce critic of American domestic and foreign policy? Of
course. Did I ever hear him make remarks that could be considered
controversial while I sat in the church? Yes. Did I strongly disagree
with many of his political views? Absolutely.


SCHULTZ: Candidate Obama not only answered nagging questions, he
delivered a brilliant 45-minute speech on race in America.

Here is Sean Hannity.


HANNITY: Twenty years, fortified. He`s like family to me -- but we
can`t bring it up. I`m not -- listen, I think Romney has made a mistake
here, because the media -- you know what? If this was him, they would go
after him with a vengeance.


SCHULTZ: Hannity acts like this was never brought up by anybody.
But, of course, it created such a firestorm it threatened to sink President
Obama`s candidacy at the time.

In the four years since then, Reverend Jeremiah Wright has had zero
influence on President Barack Obama.


SCHULTZ: Mr. Wright has not been in the news for the last three and a
half years. Can you tell our audience tonight how much contact has
Reverend Wright had with Barack Obama, the president of the United States
since he took the oath of office?

BEN LABOLT, OBAMA 2012 CAMPAIGN: Well, you know, they haven`t had
any. The president was clear that Reverend Wright`s views that were played
again and again during the last campaign didn`t reflect the president`s


SCHULTZ: Critics say this isn`t the only line of questioning. They
want to know if Barack Obama assimilated sinister views of Jeremiah Wright.
They tried to create a direct line between the views of Jeremiah Wright and
President Obama`s politics.

The attack dog exposed by "The New York Times" created storyboards to
show how Barack Obama undermined the United States of America because he
was influenced by Jeremiah Wright. They say President Obama has apologized
for America. Mitt Romney agrees.


ROMNEY: President Obama`s foreign policy is one of saying: first of
all, America is just another nation with flag. President Obama apologizes
for America. It is time for us to be strong as a nation.


SCHULTZ: It`s simply not true. President Obama has never apologized
for America and he sure hasn`t been shy in taking out its enemies.

So, if President Obama answered questions about Jeremiah Wright four
years ago and if he hasn`t had contact with him since, why bring him up
Jeremiah Wright now?

Here`s Sean Hannity, March of last year.


HANNITY: I think he`s far more in sync with Reverend Wright`s radical
black liberation theology views than he lets on.

I think he hides his true beliefs because I think he agrees with


SCHULTZ: They say President Obama is trying to hide his black
liberation theology?

The new attack against President Obama would have portrayed Wrights
black liberation theology -- the strategy was to hire an extremely literate
conservative African-American as a spokesman. It`s not really about
creating a direct line between a pastor`s views and a president`s policy.
It`s about stoking racial fear in America.

But let`s take them at their word for just a moment. Should we look
at the leaders of Mitt Romney`s religion and examine whether they affected
his politics. Fair question, isn`t it? Have Mitt Romney`s views on
African-Americans, on poverty, on the social safety net been affected by
the fact that his church did not open the priesthood to African-Americans
until 1978?

According to some conservatives, it`s a fair question. It`s fair
game. Are Republicans fully prepared for this kind of examination of Mitt

I don`t think they are. Is Mitt Romney going to give a speech on
race? Should he? I think he should.

Because before 1978, Mitt Romney was a missionary in the Mormon
Church. Just what was he saying about black people in this country?

Get your cell phones out, I want to know what you think. Tonight`s
question, is it fair game to discuss a candidate`s religious beliefs? Text
A for yes, text B for no, to 622639, or go to our blog We`ll
bring you the results later on in the show.

I`m joined tonight by Armstrong Williams, radio and television talk
show host, and Michael Eric Dyson, MSNBC political analyst and Georgetown
University professor.

Gentlemen, great to have both you have with us tonight for the

Armstrong, you first. What`s fair game here in your opinion. Why are
the conservatives so bent on connecting President Obama to Jeremiah Wright
after being president for almost four years?

hello, Michael.

I think you have to separate the candidates from the super PACs who
can spin anyway they like. Sometimes they spin, and when they spin it
seems to favor one candidate or the other, either the president or Romney.
And whatever the fallout from that, the candidate is going to going to be
blamed whether they like it or not.

SCHULTZ: Sean Hannity is not a super PAC. He`s a broadcaster who
wants to have more exposure --

WILLIAMS: May I finish. Sean Hannity is not a candidate for
president. Mitt Romney has repudiated these attacks.

You asked the question about Mitt Romney and Mormon Church -- you
know, look, America`s stain is human slavery. It created an environment
you can sort of perpetuate kinds of things you had coming out of the Mormon
Church at that time. But are we going to say just because Mitt Romney
embraced that faith, that`s what he grew up in, those are his views also?

SCHULTZ: Wait a minute. You`re asking the very key question. This
is about concern of influence. It seems the conservatives are very
concerned about what kind of influence that Jeremiah Wright may have had on
Barack Obama. Maybe there are some people that are concerned about what
kind of influence the Mormon faith has had on Mitt Romney.

WILLIAMS: If I can continue. Listen, I`m not even assure in the 20
years that President Obama was a member of Reverend Wright`s church how
often he was in his presence. Just because you`re in someone`s
congregation and Professor Dyson knows that sometimes the black church s a
church of activism. You know, that`s the place they can go during the
height of the civil rights mission.

SCHULTZ: Well, being a missionary is pretty much an activist.
There`s not question about that.

WILLIAMS: So, the bottom line just because President Obama was in
that church, does not necessarily mean he embraced everything about
Jeremiah Wright. He can separate his feelings, I keep hitting his speech
on race where he totally denounced the things that Jeremiah Wright stood
for and separated himself from it.

SCHULTZ: All right. Fair enough.

What`s fair game here Michael Eric Dyson? Is an examination of Mitt
Romney`s faith in order?

the day is to examine the relationship between ones` pastor and the
environment of one`s faith and its consequent impact upon one`s own
political views. The reality is that it`s a double standard here.
Jeremiah Wright was evoked as the (INAUDIBLE), the big bad bully who was
going to force Barack Obama to bow down at the knees of black liberation
theology and most people don`t even know what black liberation theology.

It is not a hateful theological position. It is an argument about the
fundamental nature of white supremacy in American and the resistance of
black people to that white supremacy.

On the other hand, the reality is if we`re going to play what`s good
for the loose is good for the slander. If we`re going to suggest that
Barack Obama was influenced by Jeremiah Wright, then we have to say that,
what are the views on the church that Mitt Romney put forth, the views that
black people were subsidiary to, and inferior to white people and couldn`t
afford to be priests in the religious affairs of that church until 1978 --
coincidentally, Ed, when the NCAA put restrictions upon those institutions
which would deny legitimate standings in their education institutions of
African-American people.

So, I think there`s a relationship between on the one hand of the
politics of the culture and the church decision itself. We shouldn`t gloss
over that as well.

SCHULTZ: Well, we also shouldn`t forget that Hannity makes the habit
of just reporting this idea that there`s some terrible influence coming
from Jeremiah Wright to the president of the United States. Here is more
of Hannity. Let`s play it.

DYSON: Right.


HANNITY: I want Romney to treat Obama the way he did Gingrich, and
the way he attacked Santorum. I mean, frankly, I thought it got a little
too mean. But now all these things are off limits?


SCHULTZ: Armstrong, he said Romney is going too easy on President
Obama. Do you agree?

WILLIAMS: Listen, Romney is a gentleman. There`s a certain respect
that`s understood in this campaign. Obviously, Sean Hannity and many like
him have their issues with this president in the White House, whether
that`s fair or not.

But, look, this is no reflection of candidate Romney. Romney has
distanced himself from this rhetoric. Look, I believe in free speech.
Sean Hannity can say anything he chooses like you can, Ed.

But the bottom line: Romney has repudiated this with the super PAC --

DYSON: But, look --

WILLIAMS: -- with the president. And we should do the same and put
this behind us and address the real issues that Americans are concerned

DYSON: But look at this. OK. Armstrong, but look at this -- Ted
Nugent goes forth. He has plausible deniability. (INAUDIBLE) he`s an
independent person. Now, we`re talking about the super PACs.

Here`s the point: either you`re going to outright fundamentally
distance yourself from them and say as a matter of both strategy and
protocol that we will not engage in this kind of vicious blistering
assaults upon each other`s viewpoints or else all things are fair. So,
there`s one thing to have plausible deniability to pretend that so a
disagreement with this position, while I`m benefiting from it. We have to
be across the board and open.

When Jeremiah Wright was assaulted, there was no such kind of
justification put forth to suggest that Barack Obama would not be unduly
influenced by him. Now, all of a sudden, we have asterisks and exceptions
and that`s fundamentally unfair.


SCHULTZ: We should also point out that Mitt Romney on Sean Hannity`s
radio show on February 7th invoked the name of what we`re talking about
right now, Jeremiah Wright. I mean, he said his name. You can`t run away
from that.


WILLIAMS: Ed, that is different. He was asked a question about
whether or not he felt that Jeremiah Wright had some kind of influence. He
said yes. He`s influenced by some of the things that goes on in his

But this is different from what the super PACs are trying to do.


SCHULTZ: Wait a minute, Armstrong, I want to correct you.
Respectfully, that`s not true. He brought it up in the interview on his
own. That`s what he did.

WILLIAMS: It`s not in the context of what we`re discussing now.

SCHULTZ: If Mitt Romney is ready to play this card through the entire
campaign. I mean, he`s planted the seed. It is almost coded messaging
when it comes to racism in America.


WILLIAMS: Come on, guys. Let`s be fair.

DYSON: H`s not ready for that, Ed. If he does he`s going to be
subject to the vicious assault that has prejudice against Mormonism as a
cult. Evangelical Christians within the South and broader regions of this
country view it very suspiciously and skeptically, he`s inviting the kind
of assault upon his religion that he`s willing to deliver to Jeremiah
Wright but doesn`t want it for himself.

SCHULTZ: All right. Now, before you talk, Armstrong, I do want to
point out that Mitt Romney, yesterday, stood up for what he said. He said
he didn`t know what he said but whatever he said, he stood by it. I`ll
give you the last word, Armstrong.

WILLIAMS: The bottom line is we have two people of character. We may
not agree with the positions that they take. But look, they repudiated
this. We should put it behind us. We have no control over the super PAC.
But we`d rather confront something like this later, in the upcoming months
in this election cycle.

SCHULTZ: You know, I agree with that. Let`s have the exact same
vetting process take place. Let`s make sure these super PACs are fair when
it comes to the facts.

Armstrong Williams, great to have you with us.

WILLIAMS: Thank you.

SCHULTZ: Michael Eric Dyson, always, thanks for your time tonight.

Remember to answer the question at the bottom of the screen and, of
course, share your thoughts on Twitter @EdShow. We want to know what you
think on this. Should it be equal vetting for both candidates when it
comes to faith?

Mitt Romney says President Obama helped fund a bridge to nowhere.
Labor Secretary Robert Reich tells us the only thing going nowhere is
Romney`s job package.

One billionaire says stop calling him a job creator. I`ll talk to
Nick Hanauer on why the rich need to pay their fair share. He`ll tell you.

Stay tuned.


SCHULTZ: Coming up: Republican cuts have affected our nation`s
infrastructure in big ways. Robert Reich joins me to explain why now is
the time to invest in infrastructure projects.

Mitt Romney talks tough on China, but President Obama is actually
cracking down on their unfair trading practices. We`ll tell you about the
president`s latest move and I`ll talk with Ohio Senator Sherrod Brown
because it affects his state.

And later, Arsenio Hall joins me to discuss the week`s biggest
stories, including the GOP`s plan to resurrect the Reverend Wright
controversy. Share your thoughts on Twitter using #EdShow.

We`re coming right back.


SCHULTZ: Mitt Romney`s attacks on government spending have no
structural integrity whatsoever. The candidate held an event in New
Hampshire today in front of a 200-year-old bridge.


ROMNEY: We all know that story of this bridge, this is part of the
president`s stimulus plan. They say yes, but we put in place a whole
series of elements that are critical to the future of America. You get one
behind us right there. That`s what they are saying. This is the -- this
is the absolute bridge to nowhere if there ever was one.


SCHULTZ: All right. Hold the phone here, Mittster. Here is
everything, folks, you need to know, about this Sawyer Bridge. In 2004,
the New Hampshire legislature approved 128,000 dollars in repairs to turn
the bridge into a public park. Republicans supported it overwhelming. The
projected was completed with $150,000 from, what stimulus act money? The
funding was approved by 28 lawmakers who have gone onto endorse Mitt

Mitt Romney needs to do a better job of search for his photo ops,
don`t you think? He also needs to get with the program on infrastructure
spending. In August of 2007, very tragic, the I-35 bridge in Minneapolis
collapsed, killing 13 people and injuring 145.

A study last year showed 12 percent of all U.S. bridges are
structurally deficient. Sixty-nine thousand are in need of major repair.
Infrastructure spending not only creates jobs and stimulates the economy,
it`s necessary to save lives.

But Republicans still have blocked any attempted infrastructure
spending bills even while they benefit from stimulus funded programs.

Think Progress reports showed 110 GOP lawmakers who opposed the
stimulus but love to claim credit for its success. They are a lot like
Mitt Romney who said in 2002, "I want to go after every grant, every
project, every department in Washington to assure that we are taking
advantage of economic development opportunities."

Once again, will the real Mitt Romney please stand up?

Let`s turn to Robert Reich, former labor secretary under President
Clinton and now a professor of public policy U.C.-Berkeley and author of
the book "Beyond Outrage." I agree.

Mr. Reich, great to have you with us tonight. Thank you for your

This is rather astonishing, is it, that Mitt Romney has no plan
whatsoever for spending any dollars on infrastructure when we are crumbling
in this country. Your thoughts.

ROBERT REICH, FORMER LABOR SECRETARY: It`s illogical, Ed. I mean, we
have an infrastructure crisis in this country, as you pointed out. Our
bridges, our highways, also our plumbing in sense of our sewer systems, our
piping systems, our water systems, all of them are sub standard. We had
years of deferred maintenance.

So, we have to invest. If we want to stay competitive
internationally, if we`ve got to make sure our businesses are competitive
internationally, they need a world class infrastructure. And on top of
that, we`ve got 13 million Americans who have been out of work for more
than six months. Why not put some of them to work building an

I mean, this makes no sense. The Republicans and Romney`s war on
American infrastructure at a time when we need to do all of this and we
have the people to do it, and what Republicans use to be the champions of
infrastructure. I mean, Republican President Dwight Eisenhower was the one
who actually sponsored and directed and funded the entire interstate

Where is Romney? What planet is he on?

SCHULTZ: Well, I think he was in New Hampshire today around that
bridge that Republicans supported.

Does he really believe what he is saying about infrastructure

REICH: I don`t think he could believe it, Ed. He did support the
Paul Ryan budget. That budget would, if it ever found its way into law,
and Mitt Romney says it`s marvelous budget, he says it`s a terrific and
parallels exactly what he wants to do, that budget more detailed than
anything that Mitt Romney has put forward would cause the biggest cut in
infrastructure spending as a percentage of the totally economy in 60 years.

SCHULTZ: President Obama continues to say these infrastructure
programs are things that Republicans and Democrats can agree on. Here he


OBAMA: Everything in this jobs bill has been supported in the past by
Republicans and Democrats. Everything in this jobs bill is paid for.

The idea for a big boost in construction is supported by the AFL-CIO,
but it`s also supported by the Chamber of Commerce. Those two don`t get
along on much, but they agree we should rebuild America.


SCHULTZ: And so, it seems to me, Mr. Reich, that the only way we`re
going to get this done is if the Democrats get both chambers. What do you

REICH: Well, apparently, that`s the case. I mean, Republicans have
been moving more and more to the right. They are ideologically against any
government spending. Even if that spending is to hire private contractors
in the private sector, creating private profits, they still don`t want to
do it.

And, Ed, let me remind you that right now, if we`re ever going to
borrow money for infrastructure to put all of these millions of Americans
to work --

SCHULTZ: Now is the time.

ROBERTS: Now is the time. We haven`t seen the borrowing costs for
the United States this low in many, many years. They yield on a ten-year
treasury is down to below 2 percent. I mean, you can`t get lower than

SCHULTZ: Well, you can`t.

Robert Reich, always a pleasure. Great to have your insight here on
THE ED SHOW. Thank you.

A big move on the government on solar energy means a lot for
manufacturing jobs in this country. Senator Sherrod Brown of Ohio joins me
to talk about how this affects his state. Later, I`ll show you why
Arizonans might not get the chance to vote for President Obama in November.
Are you kidding me?

Stick around. It`s another unbelievable birther story.


SCHULTZ: Welcome back to THE ED SHOW.

You care about American jobs? Check this out.

United States government made a very gutsy call on behalf of the
American workers and the United States economy within the last 24 hours.
The Commerce Department announced a trade tariff on more than 31 percent on
solar panels from China. The anti-dumping tariff is among the biggest in
American history.

Since 2001, 2.8 million jobs have been lost to China. The latest move
could be the tip of the iceberg in getting China to operate on an even
playing field. Of course, Mitt Romney has talked really tough when it
comes to trade with China.


ROMNEY: I`m going to make sure that China is recognized for the
currency manipulator and intellectual property theft that they are, and go
after them for those practices.


SCHULTZ: Lots of talk, but it has been President Obama who has
actually worked to stop China from unfair trade practices. You know, the
Bush administration would have never done this.

The Obama administration imposed tariffs on Chinese tires in 2009 and
saved a lot of jobs. Last year, the president announced a trade case
against China for unfair restrictions on exports.


OBAMA: Now, China would simply let the market work on its own, we`d
have no objections. But their policies currently are preventing that from
happening. And they go against the very rules that China agreed to follow.


SCHULTZ: President Obama also signed an order to create a Trade
Enforcement Unit aimed at cracking down on China`s trade violations.

Now, this latest tariff on solar panels, folks, this is basic deal.
Manufacturing is one of the bright spots in the U.S. economy right now.
We`re slowly coming back. We added a half a million jobs since January of

But unfair trade practices are a big hurdle. China dominates, and I
mean they dominate. They own 46 percent of the world`s solar panel market,
mostly because China is not playing fair. The United States has 3 percent
of the market.

This latest trade tariff gives a real boost to American-made solar
energy equipment in the energy sector, no doubt about it.

Joining me tonight is Senator Sherrod Brown of Ohio, where they make
solar panels in the Buckeye State. Senator, good to have you with us

SEN. SHERROD BROWN (D), OHIO: Good to be back, Ed. Thank you.

SCHULTZ: This is a bold move by President Obama and the Commerce
Department, is it not?

BROWN: Yes, this is the most aggressive president enforcing trade
we`ve seen in a quarter century. He enforced trade laws against the
Chinese on oil country, tubular steel. He`s done it on tires. Now they
are doing it on solar panels. We had a trade deficit -- I`m sorry, we had
a trade surplus with China a year ago on solar panels. Now China makes
about half the solar panels in the world, as you said, and it exports
something like 90 plus percent of what they make.

And it`s clear the Commerce Department, the U.S. Energy Department has
shown that China`s cheating on -- on their production, how they do it and
how they sell it.

SCHULTZ: There is some corporate concern in America. This is a quote
from the CEO of Dow Corning, Robert Hanson. He says, "we are concerned
about serious unintended consequences such as local job loss and
retaliatory tariffs against the United States." What about that? What do
you think the reaction of the Chinese are going to be on this deal?

BROWN: Well, the Chinese -- of course they`re going to be upset. But
they play us for suckers over and over and over. China practices trade
according to their natural interest. We practice trade according to some
economic textbook that`s 20 years out of print.

We know China cheats on -- they subsidize water. They subsidize
energy. They subsidize land. They subsidize capital. We know they cheat
on currency. My legislation, the largest bipartisan jobs bill to pass the
Senate last year, to level the playing field on currency, is stuck in the

Governor Romney, if he really cares about China and jobs in the U.S.,
should tell Speaker Boehner to pass this bill. Come to my website,, sign up, sign our letter to Speaker Boehner, saying move
on our China currency bill.

There are a lot of things we can do here. I`m working on legislation
on solar panels. We can do this. We can do China currency. There`s all
kind of opportunity here to stand up to the Chinese to play fair.

SCHULTZ: The big thing that American consumers I think need to
understand is that China subsidizes their solar panel industry. In other
words, they have the government saying, OK, go beat the United States. Go
beat them at the game. Go take the market from them. We`re going to give
you the money to do this. You go ahead and make them.

In the meantime, you have American companies who are purchasing these
goods from China. And it depresses the labor market in this country and
also entrepreneurial opportunities for American businesses. What does it
mean, senator, to your state of Ohio?

BROWN: Well, we have three good solar companies in northwest Ohio, to
start with. Toledo is one of the solar capitals of the -- of the United
States. Those companies are hurting. We`re seeing supply in the supply
chain hurting from this. We know of at least 12 U.S. manufacturers that
have been decisively hurt by China cheating on this. And the Obama
administration standing up on these tariffs will absolutely make a

It`s time that the U.S. government forced our trading partners just to
play fair. We`re not asking for advantage. We just want a level playing
field on currency and on all the subsidies that the Chinese are giving
their industries.

SCHULTZ: Of course, we should point out that unemployment is dropping
below the national average in the state of Ohio. Manufacturing clearly is
the key. This trade ruling and tariff put in -- and a level of
protectionism -- you can call it what you want. But the fact is this is
going to force the Chinese to play fair with the American markets.

Senator, great to have you with us tonight. Appreciate your time.
Sherrod Brown from Ohio.

Just consume this, folks: this is something that the Bush
administration would have never done. It`s been tires. It`s been steel.
And now it`s been solar panels. We`ll see what Mitt Romney`s reaction is
to this.

There`s a lot more coming up in the next half hour of THE ED SHOW.
Stay with us. We`re right back.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hiring more people is a course of last resort for


SCHULTZ: A venture capitalist says lowering taxes won`t lead to more
jobs. Mitt Romney`s new commercial says just the opposite.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: President Romney introduces tax cuts and reforms
that reward job creators, not punish them.


SCHULTZ: Entrepreneur Nick Hanauer is here on why Mitt has it wrong.

And the Arizona secretary of state is demanding to see Barack Obama`s
birth certificate before he lets him on the ballot. We`ll have the latest.

And race rears its ugly head in the GOP yet again. Comedian Arsenio
Hall joins us.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: President Romney introduces tax cuts and reforms
that reward job creators, not punish them.


SCHULTZ: That was part of a new ad for Mitt Romney, explaining what a
President Romney would do on day one. Republicans are obsessed with the
idea of protecting and rewarding the so called job creators, those wealthy
few at the top.

They used job creators as a way to argue for the Bush tax cuts. They
used job creators as a way to lobby against the Buffett rule. But lower
taxes for the wealthy doesn`t lead to economic growth or more jobs. We
know this. This chart illustrates the dismal job growth rate under the
current top tax rate.

Job growth soars when the top tax rates were higher. Yet the GOP is
still clinging to this myth at the expense of the middle class. But one
entrepreneur and venture capitalists says that while he`s helped launch
dozens of companies, he`s never been a job creator.

Nick Hanauer wrote a -- in a "Bloomberg View" op-ed, "it is
mathematically impossible to invest enough in our economy and our country
to sustain the middle class, our customers, without taxing the top one
percent at reasonable levels again."

Hanauer recently gave a lecture ripping into the Republican argument
on job creators. Take a look.


NICK HANAUER, VENTURE CAPITALIST: If there was no one around who
could afford to buy what we had to sell, all those companies and all those
jobs would have evaporated. That`s why I can say with confidence that rich
people don`t create jobs. Nor do businesses large or small.

Jobs are a consequence of a circle of life-like feedback loop between
customers and businesses. An ordinary consumer is more of a job creator
than a capitalist like me.

That`s why when business people take credit for creating jobs, it`s a
little bit like squirrels taking credit for evolution. It`s actually the
other way around.

Anyone who has even run a business knows that hiring more people is a
course of last resort for capitalists. It`s what we do if and only if
rising consumer demand requires it. In this sense, calling ourselves job
creators isn`t just inaccurate; it`s disingenuous.

If it was true that lower taxes for the rich and more wealth for the
wealthy led to job creation, today we would be drowning in jobs.


HANAUER: Thank you.


SCHULTZ: Let`s bring in Nick Hanauer, a technology entrepreneur and
billionaire venture capitalist. He`s also the author of the book "Gardens
of Democracy." Nick, great to have you on THE ED SHOW. I appreciate your
time tonight.

It seems to me like you have the philosophy of Henry Ford. He wanted
to pay his workers enough, so they could go buy those automobiles. Do I
have that right?

HANAUER: Exactly. You know, what we call it is middle out economics,
as opposed to this ridiculous economic orthodoxy of trickle down economics
that Mitt Romney so perfectly and aptly embodies, the idea that if you sort
of pour money into rich people, like an ingredient, jobs will squirt out of
them like donuts.

But of course, as you point out, it hasn`t happened and it won`t
happen. Jobs are a consequence of a feedback loop between customers and
businesses. And when businesses thrive -- I`m sorry, when customers
thrive, so do businesses. In that sense, middle class customers are job

SCHULTZ: Well, it`s the purchasing power that drives the economy. If
people aren`t making money, they`re not going to be spending it, because
they`re not going to have it.


SCHULTZ: You bring up an interesting point, though, as far as the
wealthy. We`ve seen a lot of outsourcing of jobs from -- away from our
American soil, so the wealthy can get wealthier. How do we -- what`s the
remedy for that?

HANAUER: Well, I think global trade is a fine thing. But we have to
acknowledge that it comes with trade offs. Obviously, globalization has
worked incredibly well for the shareholders of Walmart and the shareholders
of companies like Apple and, to be honest, companies that I own too.

But it`s been a disaster for ordinary Americans, as we ship these jobs
overseas. I think you quite rightly pointed out in your previous interview
that China has been super, super predatory in the way that they have
approached this. And we have let them walk all over us. And that`s been,
in my opinion, a terrible mistake.

So we need to appropriately tax wealthy people again, so that we can
invest in the middle class. We need to defend our industries with
appropriate trade agreements like we did in the past. Frankly, we need to
give workers more power too, so they can have fair wages.

SCHULTZ: You`re a very unselfish man to speak the way you`re
speaking. Most people that have a lot of money want to have a lot more.

HANAUER: No. I disagree. I think you misunderstand me. I`m not
saying this because I`m generous. I`m saying this because, ultimately, all
these things are good for me. The more customers there are, the more
opportunity there is for capitalist like me.

SCHULTZ: Why don`t Republicans see it that way? Why don`t
Republicans see it that way?

HANAUER: Because I think that it`s both Republicans and Democrats, if
we`re honest with ourselves, have been enthralled with this trickle down
notion. Look, Republicans may defend big businesses as job creators, but
we Democrats happily ascribe job creation to small businesses.

The truth is small businesses don`t create jobs either. It`s their
customers that create jobs. If we re-do our tax system and our trade
agreements and restructure our economy around supporting the middle class,
it`s going to be great both for small business and big business.

So this argument isn`t a pity argument. This argument is for more

SCHULTZ: Exactly. Nick Hanauer, great to have you on THE ED SHOW.
Appreciate your refreshing take on of this in view. Thank you.

The state of Arizona has really hit a new low. The state`s new law
enforcement official is trying to keep President Obama off the ballot.
That`s next.


SCHULTZ: Welcome back to THE ED SHOW. It`s been over a year since
the White House made a copy of President Obama`s long form birth
certificate public. At this point, even finger wagging Arizona Governor
Jan Brewer called the Birther discussion a huge a distraction.


GOV. JAN BREWER (R), ARIZONA: I believe that most people have reached
out and they did their investigations and it`s become such a huge


SCHULTZ: Evidently Brewer`s secretary of state, Ken Bennett, he
didn`t get that memo. In an interview with conservative radio talk show
host Mike Boomhead (ph), Bennett said that if he doesn`t receive personal
confirmation from the state of Hawaii, the officials there, of an authentic
birth certificate, it`s possible he would keep President Obama`s name off
the 2012 ballot.

Bennett claims after Sheriff Joe Arpaio launched an investigation into
the birth certificate, he got over 1,200 e-mails from concerned
constituents asking him to do an investigation of his own. When Bennett
was pressed about playing to the Birthers, this is what he had to say.


playing to the Birthers. I`m not a Birther. I believe that the president
was born in Hawaii or at least I hope he was.


SCHULTZ: Did you catch that? "At least I hope he was." Keep in
mind, Ken Bennett is eyeing a 2014 gubernatorial run. That`s right. It
just happens that Ken Bennett has an exploratory committee and has started
raising money for 2014. Bowing to the Birthers to snag conservative
voters, where have I heard that before?


DONALD TRUMP, "THE APPRENTICE": I`m going to look at it and many
other people are going to look at it. You`re going to have many people
looking at it. And obviously they are going to have to make a decision
because it is rather amazing that all of a sudden it materializes.

But I hope it`s the right deal. I`m sure -- I hope it`s the right
deal. We have to look at it. A lot of people have to look at it. Experts
will look at it. I am really happy. Honestly, I`m very proud I was able
to bring this to a point.


SCHULTZ: You`re in good company, Ken Bennett. Let us now how this
whole thing works out for you.

Tonight in our survey, I asked you is it fair game to discuss a
candidate`s religious beliefs? Sixty three percent of you say yes; 37
percent of you say no.

Next, it changed the landscape of late night TV in presidential
politics, Bill Clinton`s appearance on "The Arsenio Hall Show." It was one
for the history books. Up next, Arsenio Hall joins me to talk politics,
pop culture and "Celebrity Apprentice." Stay tuned.


SCHULTZ: And in the Big Finish, well, back in the day, he wore cheap
sunglasses. He blew the saxophone. He explained that he really wanted to
inhale, he just didn`t know how. It was not the kind of television
performance presidential candidates typically give. But it is not likely
to be the last.

That was how the "New York Times" described then presidential
candidate Bill Clinton on "The Arsenio Hall Show" in 1992. Twenty years
later, we know that appearance not only changed the landscape of late night
television, but presidential politics. It was a risky move at the time.

The Clinton campaign needed some prodding. In an April, 1992, memo,
consultant Mandy Grinwald (ph) argued in favor of booking Clinton on pop
culture venues like "The Arsenio Hall Show," as a way to showcase Clinton`s
life story. "I understand that many people will say these kinds of things
are unpresidential. Bull. This is how people get information."

Words that ring true two decades later. Here is the appearance that
changed modern campaigning.





SCHULTZ: Almost 20 years ago. Joining me now is Arsenio Hall, former
talk show host and currently one of the two finalists on NBC`s "Celebrity
Apprentice." You were standing right next to Clinton at that time. Did
you know how big a moment that was?

HALL: No, not at all. Remember, we didn`t even know if he would
become a president. He was the governor of a small state.

SCHULTZ: Arkansas.

HALL: And we didn`t know if that would happen. But I remember that
moment so well. I remember the first joke out of my mouth. I looked at
him and I said, it`s good to see a Democrat blowing something other than an
election. Go on. Go on.

SCHULTZ: It was pretty historic. You had to know that you were
probably the first talk show host to have a presidential candidate on like
that, that would perform and actually show the people, hey, I`m like you.
I can play an instrument.

HALL: You know, I -- the only video I had seen of anything like it I
think was Johnny Carson with Ronald Reagan, maybe, possibly. But we`ll
have to Google that when we get finished. I just knew it was a great
booking. He was going to allow his wife to come out.

But I didn`t know 20 years later, we would see presidents dancing and
playing base or presidential candidates doing things like this. And the
sunglasses, it`s always weird, because I read that and -- cheap sunglasses,
it always is like -- because those were mine.

SCHULTZ: You think it`s important, Arsenio, for candidates to do

HALL: Absolutely. I`ll tell you, whether it`s you or the other guy,
whether it`s Sunday morning, that`s all good. But it`s no one thing. It
should be everything. It should be also "Ellen," also Letterman, also
Fallon. That way you get different people delivering to their demographic
in their way. I don`t think there can be too much exposure for a guy who`s
going to run our country and have his finger on the button.

SCHULTZ: How influential is it when a late night comedian goes after
a politician and then maybe has a little dig to it? Is that effective?

HALL: Oh, yes, because that`s what we do. The best jokes are about
the people we most recognize or know.

SCHULTZ: Serious stuff out there. Reverend Wright`s back in the
news. What the righties are trying to president Obama, your thoughts on

HALL: Wow, Reverend Jeremiah Wright, a lot of things today or this
week have resurfaced. And Ed, you know that`s politics.

I`m on a game that NBC runs. I do the same thing. I find the things
that will help me and I use them against my enemy. That`s what politics is
all about. It`s up to us as intelligent Americans to decipher what`s true
and what`s important.

SCHULTZ: Pretty gutsy move by President Obama to come on marriage
equality. How -- is that going to play into it big, do you think?

HALL: I think, first of all, he`s a bright man with a wonderful think
tank around him. They know exactly what they`re doing. And it`s going to

I`m in the finals on "Celebrity Apprentice" with Clay Aiken, who is a
gay male. I talked to him. That`s what I know about the issue. He`s very
happy. He feels that there are gay teenagers dying in this country because
their lifestyle isn`t being accepted.

I don`t want anybody to die. I`m a heterosexual and the son of a
Baptist preacher, but I don`t believe God makes garbage. I think everybody
deserves the right to be who they are.

SCHULTZ: Reagan was on Johnny Carson in 1975. You win the big prize
on THE ED SHOW tonight. You had it right.

"The Celebrity Apprentice" coming up here Sunday night, 9:00 Eastern
time, here on NBC. You`re up against Clay Aiken. Who is going to win this

HALL: I have to have it. Plus, my son is older than Clay`s son. My
son will remember this and cry. His son will never know this happen. I
need it, Ed. I got to have it.

SCHULTZ: You got to have it.

HALL: Yes, indeed.

SCHULTZ: I didn`t realize you were a Yankees fan.

HALL: My friend bought this team. And I am very proud of him. There
was a time when a black man couldn`t play for the Dodgers. Then, I come
full circle to this. My friend, Ervin Magic Johnson owns the Dodgers.
From Robinson to Johnson, God is good, Ed.

SCHULTZ: I think you like the Dodgers and Magic. Great to have you
with us tonight, Arsenio.


SCHULTZ: You bet. That`s THE ED SHOW. I`m Ed Schultz. "THE RACHEL
MADDOW SHOW" starts right now. Ezra Klein filling in for Rachel tonight.
Good evening, Ezra.


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