IE 11 is not supported. For an optimal experience visit our site on another browser.

'The Last Word with Lawrence O'Donnell' for Tuesday, November 19th, 2013

Read the transcript to the Tuesday show

November 19, 2013
Guest: Bill Maher, Cecilia Peck, Morgan Carpenter

LAWRENCE O`DONNELL, MSNBC ANCHOR: George Zimmerman was back on a Florida
court room today, but this time, he left the courthouse wearing an ankle


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: George Zimmerman`s first appearance before a Florida

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Facing domestic violence charges.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Charges of aggravated assault with a weapon and

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The initial purpose of this hearing is to determine
whether there is probable cause.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The whole thing stems from a fight with his new

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: His girlfriend said he threatened her with a shot gun.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: His girlfriend called 911.

SAMANTHA SCHEIBE: He pushed me out of the house and locked me out.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And even though police had arrived.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Saying he never pointed gun.

GEORGE ZIMMERMAN: I just want everyone to know the truth.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But when the authorities investigated, they did take
him into custody.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: George Zimmerman spent the night behind bars.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He can have no contact with his girlfriend.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He can not have a weapon or any ammunition.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The judge set Zimmerman`s bond at $9,000.

JUDGE: I`m not increasing your bond because of anything that has happened
in the past.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He is presumed innocent on these matters.

JUDGE: As far as I`m concerned, this is a brand new case.


O`DONNELL: George Zimmerman`s friends were not with him in court today.
He stood in the Florida courtroom today without the high powered defense
team who got him a not guilty verdict in the murder of Trayvon Martin.
George Zimmerman`s formerly publicly talkative brother was not with him in
the courtroom today. His parents who testified in the Trayvon Martin trial
about the goodness and kindness of their son didn`t bother to come to court
today, after the latest George Zimmerman 911 tapes were released yesterday.

First, Zimmerman`s girlfriend callled 911.


SCHEIBE: He is in my house breaking all my (EXPLETIVE DELETED) because I
asked him to leave. He has a freaking gun, breaking all of my stuff right

No, this is not --


SCHEIBE: I am doing this again? You just broke my glass table. You broke
my sunglasses. You put your gun in my freaking face and told me to get the


O`DONNELL: Then, even though the police were on the scene, outside of the
house, trying to apprehend George Zimmerman. He refused to speak to the
police at the scene and instead called 911 himself.


OPERATOR: OK, the police is already there. And, so why are you calling?
What happened?

ZIMMERMAN: I just want everyone to know the truth.

OPERATOR: OK. The officer can speak with you on scene? Have you already
spoken with them?

ZIMMERMAN: No, but they`re pretty upset I think.


O`DONNELL: Even George Zimmerman`s friends at FOX News have begun to turn
on him.


GREG GUTFELD, FOX NEWS: I was always of the feeling that Zimmerman was a
skale (ph), he`s a guy that was looking to be a hero. And he is -- he
should not have a gun.

GERALDO RIVERA, FOX NEWS: I think that he is a borderline psychotic at
this point.


O`DONNELL: George Zimmerman was represented in court today by two public
defenders. He said he could not afford an attorney because he says he has
only $144 and has debts of $2.5 million. George Zimmerman was charged with
aggravated assault, domestic violence, battery and criminal mischief
against his girlfriend.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are confident that he will be acquitted of these
matters. And we will ask that you make sure that he is presumed innocent
and stays that way.


O`DONNELL: The prosecutor told the judge that George Zimmerman is even
more dangerous than the charges indicate.


LYMART MUNOZ, ASST. STATE ATTORNEY: The victim indicated there was a prior
domestic violence incident that occurred approximately a week and a half
ago that involved a choking, that she did not report to the police. She is
in fear for her safety on the day of this incident. She had indicated that
they had been discussing breaking up. He`s also mentioned suicide in the
recent past due to the factors, and the defendant indicating at the time.
He was threatening to commit suicide. He had nothing to lose. The
victim`s safety, community safety is of paramount concern.


O`DONNELL: The judge decided to allow George Zimmerman out on bail and
ordered him to stay away from his girlfriend, Samantha Scheibe.


JUDGE FREDERIC SCHOTT, SEMINOLE COUNTY: No contact, not in person, not by
mail, not by fax, blog, tweet, through Facebook, no contact at all. Next,
no possession of any weapons or ammunition while you`re out on bond, and
that`s in part for her safety and in part your own safety it may seem like.

And I am going to order the impact monitoring device to keep you away from
her and away from those particular locations, just to make sure there
aren`t any further altercations between the two of you.

As far as the passport, did you ever get your passport back after the last

ZIMMERMAN: I`m not sure, honor. My former attorney may have it.

SCHOTT: OK. I am not going to worry too much about your passport. But I
will put as a condition, no traveling outside of the state of Florida while
you are out on bond.


O`DONNELL: Joining me now is MSNBC`s Joy Reid, and Lisa Bloom, author of
the upcoming book "Suspicion Nation: The Inside Story of Trayvon Martin
Injustice and Why We Are Doomed to Repeat It".

Joy Reid, George Zimmerman has a previous story in this arena of possible
abuse of a girlfriend. How was that similar to the case we`re hearing
about now?

JOY REID, MSNBC CONTRIBUTOR: Well, it`s interesting because in the recent
case, when George Zimmerman actually placed his own 911 call and said that
his girlfriend had gone crazy, that she was the one who broke the table,
that he actually had been trying to leave. She was obstructing him. He
barricaded the door. She says he pushed him out. In 2005 incident with
his former fiance, it was similar. The fiance, she asked George to leave
her Orlando home, that he refused to leave, that he pushed and shoved her.
In that instance, she filed an injunction against him.

A day later, he filed one against her. Said she was the aggressor. She
put marks on his face. She was the one that attacked him.

It was sort of a similar construction, where he re-created events with
himself as the victim. In this case, you have Ms. Scheibe saying there was
an incident of him pushing her that she hadn`t reported. In the 2005
incident, the victim there said that George Zimmerman smacked her with an
open hand, that she had not reported that incident to police.

O`DONNELL: All right. Lisa Bloom, what was your reaction to the new
revelations in court today, that there was a choking incident, previous
choking incident with the current girlfriend. And George Zimmerman has had
suicidal thoughts.

LISA BLOOM, AUTHOR, "SUSPICION NATION": Well, very sad, very disturbing,
and not at all surprising. And we know what domestic violence victims, if
she is one, that the, tend to be a lot of incidents that build up over time
until there`s a breaking point. And at the breaking point, that`s when
some one calls the police.

We also know that with domestic violence victims, the most dangerous time
is when she attempts to end relationship, either by leaving, or by asking
him to leave. So, putting together everything that Joy Reid just said. We
now have three different women, over the course of the last eight years,
who have experienced they say, violence and threats -- threats of violence
from George Zimmerman when they wanted to end the relationship.

It`s very consistent with what we know about domestic violence.

O`DONNELL: Let`s listen to what the judge said, what he called
strangulation information, the new information, the choking information,
and how that affected his decision on bail.


SCHOTT: Those are the special conditions that I belief off to be
reasonable. I think that is a reasonable amount based upon the additional
allegation of a previous unreported, potentially battery by strangulation.
That`s the reason for the increase in the bond amount.


O`DONNELL: Joy Reid, there`s that Zimmerman face, usually tells us nothing
in this courtroom.

REID: Yes, and that was at least according to the court. That was one of
the times he showed any emotion. He sort of flinched when strangulation
was mentioned.

And it`s important in terms of the bail that he wound up getting. The
state had asked for $50,000 in part because of that previous incident. And
the judge, essentially split the difference, really, in favor of Mr.
Zimmerman because he had been asking his -- his legal counsel asking for
$4,900, because he was indigent.

So, the bail was split up into the three count he`s was charged with. But
that previous strangulation incident did not get the bail to be the maximum
of $50,000.

O`DONNELL: How much does he have to come up it? Lisa, in a situation like
this, how much does he actually have to come up with for this and how did
he do that?

BLOOM: Well, typically, it is 10 percent. His public defender said that`s
what it is in Florida as well. You only have to come up with 10 percent of
the bail amount. So, here, $9,000, he had to come up with $900. And he
forfeits the rest if he doesn`t show up for the next court appearance, his
arraignment is in January.

As to how he came up with the $900, I don`t know, perhaps friends or
supporters, because as you say, he said he had $100 to his name. He is in
debt $2.5 million by the way. Who does he owe $2 million to? It has to be
his attorneys, O`Mara and West from the Trayvon Martin trial.


And I want to go back to his wife, Shellie Zimmerman, she is divorcing him,
said in September about George Zimmerman.


SHELLIE ZIMMERMAN: In my opinion, he feels more invincible. I just think
he is making some reckless decisions. I have been married to a person for
almost seven years and I don`t think I ever really knew him at all.


O`DONNELL: Joy, that, of course, was right after she had an incident with
-- her father did, with George Zimmerman. In which in the end they decided
not to get involved by pressing charges because, it could be complicated
for her but that invincible feeling seems to be, what, what is being
demonstrated here.

REID: Yes. And remember the track record is that his encounters with law
enforcement have usually ended in his favor. There was an additional
incident with a police officer, in which he was accused, charged with
battering an officer. That ended up being adjudicated. So, he served no
time for that. Then you have domestic violence incidents.

And then since his acquittal, he had three separate incidents of being
pulled over by police with guns in the car. He seems to have, there is an
intersection, with George Zimmerman between the incidents and guns.

Firearms are involved in each of the incidents except for the 2005
incident. And, you know, Shellie Zimmerman, interesting, at she is saying
now, is that she is not surprised by the incident that just happened. She
also didn`t know where George Zimmerman was.

This is the day that she was able to finally serve him with divorce papers
because he was in jail.

O`DONNELL: She had been trying to do that, couldn`t find him anywhere.

So, Lisa Bloom, we are now hearing from people who know George Zimmerman
better than anyone else and probably better than his parents do now because
they live -- been in intimate circumstances with him and there`s his wife
Shellie Zimmerman saying, I really -- she said, I don`t think I ever really
knew him at all.

BLOOM: Right. And think about it, think about his calls to the police,
the one that you played at the top of the show. Remember that George
Zimmerman called the police, 46 times before he called about Trayvon
Martin. This is the guy that calls the police in a way that I might call
my best friend.


BLOOM: Just to talk about something. I mean, yesterday, he calls just to
tell his side of the story. He is very calm and relaxed even though he
says the police are banging on his doors and windows. But he has all the
time in the world to have long pauses and just tell his side of the story.

It is almost like his relationship with the police, his relationship with
the law enforcement and a criminal justice system is his primary
relationship. And he just can`t let go if it.

O`DONNELL: Joy, George Zimmerman is not getting the chorus of support that
he had gotten previously. There was a racial component in the Trayvon
Martin case that is not present here.

Do you think abut this when you look at this case, you see there is a white
woman on a 911 call complaining about George Zimmerman and normal course of
supporters for George Zimmerman suddenly aren`t speaking up?

REID: Yes, I find the FOX News cadre particularly interesting in that
regard. In the case of Trayvon Martin, it must have been something he
said. Geraldo said it must have been his clothing.


REID: He was dressed like a thug. So, George Zimmerman had no choice but
to view him as a thug.

The people at FOX News were very much in favor of Mr. Zimmerman, but it was
in the sense of vilifying Trayvon Martin, and saying that it must have been
something about him. He must have caused what happened.

Whereas in this case, this is some one with whom the people can relate.
And so, they instantly view her as a victim, whereas the family of Trayvon
Martin, their chief complaint about the coverage that, you know, when I
have spoken with the parents and I`ve spoken with attorneys, is that there
was never a sense of people viewing Trayvon Martin as either a child or as
a victim, that that seemed to be too much of a leap for too many people
covering it, particularly in conservative media.

That`s not happening now.

O`DONNELL: So that 911 call, by that, that white woman, for Geraldo turns
George Zimmerman into a psycho. So, what do you say some kind of --

REID: He was close to psychopath.

O`DONNELL: Yes, borderline psychopath.

REID: And he`s not blaming Ms. Scheibe for the way she behaved, the way
she dressed.

O`DONNELL: Right. Nothing -- it didn`t matter if she was wearing a hoodie
or not.

Joy Reid and Lisa Bloom, thank you both very much for joining me tonight.

BLOOM: Thank you.

O`DONNELL: Coming up, Bill Maher joins me to discuss dysfunction in North
American politics from Toronto to Washington.

And, an extraordinary new documentary follows the winner of the Miss World
beauty pageant as he campaigns against rape by telling her own story and
listening to stories of hundreds of women from around the world. Women
like Morgan Carpenter.


MORGAN CARPENTER: When I went to the D.A., the first time I met with her.
I went in. She sat down. She said she thought he was cute. And -- she
tried to convince me that, that, I just had a weak moment. And to -- that
it was my fault.



O`DONNELL: Well, that didn`t last long. Canada`s Sun News Network
announced today that the new TV show "Ford Nation" starring Toronto Mayor
Rob Ford and his brother Doug, the city councilor, has been canceled after
exactly one episode.

Up next, Bill Maher`s take on the Ford brothers.



ROB FORD, TORONTO MAYOR: This, folks, remind me of when I was watching
with my brother, when Saddam attacked Kuwait. President Bush said I warn
you, I warn you, I warn you, do not.

Well, folks, if you think American-style politics is nasty, you guys have
just attacked Kuwait.


O`DONNELL: Who better than to analyze the antics of mayor of Toronto and
everything else that`s wrong with politics in North America than my next
guest Bill Maher, host of HBO`s "Real Time with Bill Maher", Friday night,
you can see Bill live New Year`s Eve at Blaisdell Concert Hall in Honolulu,
in January 1st at Maui Arts and Cultural Center.

Bill, it is -- it is hard to pick my very favorite Mayor Ford sound bite.
The thing about every one of them is, when they begin, you don`t have any
idea where he is going.

BILL MAHER, HBO: He should stick with the crack, and not with the
analogies. I don`t know.


MAHER: First of all, that is so unfair to Kuwait, which is not as big as
Rob Ford. And why of all the historical events that he picked that one. I
can`t figure that out.

But I have to say, Lawrence, as much as you`ll say I`m just being a
contrarian for the sake of it, he is kind of growing on me. I would never
recommend being a crack addict or anything and nothing like that. I have
never smoked crack, I have done most drugs, but never did that one. I
heard it is addictive, probably not good for you.

There is something, a politician, pointing at accusers and saying, really,
you never did anything? Because there is an awful lot of hypocrisy and
self righteousness that, that makes me even sicker than what he does.

O`DONNELL: Well, got to tell you, he has grown on me, right from the
start. It is that refreshing thing. You have no idea what he is going to
say. And he has breathtaking moments of honesty when you ask him things
like, you know, have you bought drugs in the last year or so?

And we -- and there`s -- also, Bill, I think, I have this feeling, hey,
it`s Toronto. What could go wrong? You know? I mean, don`t you feel like
it just isn`t that much at stake with the mayor of Toronto?

MAHER: First of all, you know, Canada has hat the reputation of being
boring. Finally, someone who is not boring.

You know, we have that -- we have the commercial, the beer commercial --
the most interesting man in the world. I think Rob Ford should do the most
interesting Canadian in the world. The toilet hugs him. I may not always
smoke crack.

Sorry, go ahead.

O`DONNELL: I mean this as a compliment to Toronto. We, I think our image
is, Canada is a very well run country. Provinces are well-run. The
governing there is smooth.

And, you know, we never read any big problem about the terrors of life in
Toronto, what`s going wrong. And that just might mean that we don`t have
much coverage of it. But working from the notion, which may be naive of,
you know, it`s Toronto. Everything looks smooth to me up there. Rob Ford
presents us with nothing but entertainment.

MAHER: Rob and his brother. Have you notice that his brother`s name --

O`DONNELL: His brother Doug.

MAHER: Doug. Do you remember on SETV when they played Bob and Doug?


MAHER: They`re actually, posers named Bob and Doug. I`ve looked at them
as kind of the Kennedy brothers of Canada. The Kennedy brothers were
blackout drunks the size of port-a-potties.

One is just as out there as the next. They are in lockstep in that. You
have to say that. You cannot, you cannot get a wedge in between the Ford

O`DONNELL: Well, it was Doug in the city council who pointed his finger at
every one of the members and said, have you ever used marijuana? Have you
ever used marijuana?

And for some strange reason he got no answer that whole line.

Bill, Sarah Palin -- go ahead, sorry.

MAHER: No, go ahead.

O`DONNELL: I was going to go to Sarah Palin. I wanted to listen to what
she had to say about the war on Christmas.


SARAH PALIN (R), FORMER ALASKA GOVERNOR: We need to protect the heart of
Christmas and not let an angry atheist, armed with an attorney, Scrooge,
tell us we can`t celebrate traditional faith in America.


O`DONNELL: Bill, I think she is talking about your attorney, Scrooge,
trying to shut down Christmas in America. I just want to tell you, Bill.
You are losing here in Rockefeller Center. The tree is up. They haven`t
lit it yet. You are making no progress here.

MAHER: Well, and I have said many times. I am one of the biggest fans of
Christmas in America.

I think people have atheists all wrong. We don`t care. That`s the thing.
They have this idea that we`re out there marching in the streets. And
there are a few atheists who organized, which I`m also against.

The great thing about atheism is that we don`t have to organize. We don`t
have to meet. And on Sunday, we can worship the NFL football package that
I have.

No, I mean -- what I love abut Christmas is the tradition. I don`t want to
change the word even. I remember Christmas, Christmas to me is my family
memories. It`s -- I used to go to church back then. It`s my mother. My
father. My sister. It is Robert Gullet records.

It`s sitting around the tree. I love it all. A national holiday. Nothing
to do with religion. No one is trying to take that away.

It`s so funny the way these Christians are always standing up in an 80
percent Christian country and feeling so persecuted. We will celebrate

You know, there is a guy who stood up in the House of Representatives the
other day talking about, this is a Christian nation, take that complete
Christian body.


MAHER: Persecution complex.

O`DONNELL: Let`s talk about what`s going on in the Republican Party. We
are doing some coverage this week. They have these internal battles going

And the finally, the so-called establishment side of the Republican Party
seems to be rising up against the Tea Party, which has costs them a bunch
of Senate elections in the past couple years. And they`re having some
success with it. It took them a while to figure out that the Republican
establishment was seriously threatened by the Tea Party. But it looks like
they don`t want to see any more Christine O`Donnells, which, Bill, you
know, could hurt your monologues?

MAHER: Yes. Well, I felt I created her.

O`DONNELL: You did. You did.

MAHER: So, I deserve to have her. Yes.

But actually I think this is a little overblown, that there`s this giant
rift between the Tea Party and the, what I call the potty-trained
Republicans, because there was a -- there was a poll out, recently. And --
I think that, the question that was asked was -- is the Tea Party, has too
much influence on the Republican Party. Not enough influence, or just the
right amount, 41 percent of Republicans said the Tea Party had too little
influence, 32 percent just the right amount.

So, that`s 73 percent of Republicans, who are just fine with the Tea Party.
I think the people who were upset are the old Wall Street 1 percenters.
These are the people who are worried about the Tea Party, because after
all, if the debt ceiling debacle had gone their way, they probably would
have actually lost a lot of money.

So, this Tea Party -- Frankenstein`s monster they created, now they`re
worried because it could lose them money which its what they care most
about. The Tea Party was fine. And now it is starting to, you know, throw
little girls into the lake, they have to rein them in.

But I think the other thing you have to remember about the Tea Party is
they keep portraying themselves as outsiders. They`re not outsiders. Now,
they are insiders. They are controlling the works. They`re at least
gumming up the works in Congress. They`re making former insiders look
good. Tom DeLay looks good next to the people.

O`DONNELL: Yes, he does. Let`s talk about the guy who Wall Street will
want to run for president, Chris Christie, who has been saying things that
put him definitely in contradiction with the Tea Party. He actually said
something about how -- when you are elected to run government, you really
should run government, instead of shut it down.

Let`s listen to that.


GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE (R), NEW JERSEY: You can rail against Obamacare, and
you can be opposed to it as I`ve been in New Jersey, but not then subscribe
to the notion that your job in running the government is to close it. Your
job in running the government is to run it and run it effectively and


O`DONNELL: Bill, when he says it on a Republican presidential debate
stage, with Ted Cruz standing up there and Rand Paul, does Chris Christie
get applause when he says that to a Republican audience?

MAHER: Absolutely not. But he won`t say it in a debate. And that`s why
Chris Christie is an excellent politician.

I, of course, agree with what he is saying. I never understood why people
who hate government, go into government. That`s why I am not a priest.


MAHER: But, you know, for those people that say, Chris Christie is not
going to work down in Texas or the South. I disagree. I think Chris
Christie has positioned himself perfectly, because what I hear, from the
left, is oh, you don`t realize how conservative Chris Christie really is.
He is not really a moderate. What I hear from the right is the exact

And when both side think the other side, a little close to the other side,
I think that`s a sweet spot for a politician. Chris Christie does every
once in a while say something that mollifies the moderates and the
independents and even some Democrats, I`m sure that`s how he got elected in
my home state, which is after all, a blue state. And he also is actually a
very conservative politician who is perfectly capable of throwing the red
meat to the Tea Party. He will do a little of each until he gets the
nomination and maybe the White House.

O`DONNELL: Bill Maher, that`s going to be the LAST WORD from Bill tonight.

Bill, thank you very much for joining us tonight.

MAHER: Always great to see you, Lawrence.

O`DONNELL: Coming up: Ezra Klein on implementation of the Affordable Care
Act and possibly the next government shutdown.

And later, the extraordinary story of a rape survivor who won the Miss
World pageant and worked through her pain to become a leader of rape
survivors and then a criminal prosecutor of rape cases.


O`DONNELL: In the spotlight tonight, the next government shutdown. Yes.
You might not be able to hear it yet, but the clock is ticking toward our
next budget crisis.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Although we put our priorities forward we have not seen
any plan, not any plan, from our Republican colleagues. It appears they
just want to play politics with affordable care act. Run out the clock on
the budget negotiations, and, and that would be a great disappointment I
know to the country.

very, very worried.

REP. JOHN BOEHNER (R-OH), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: What we are seeing here is
a pattern of broken promises from the administration.

CANTOR: Moms and dads are worried.

BOEHNER: It is just one more reason why this health care law need to be
scrapped now.

CANTOR: The American people are very, very worried.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Look, the Republicans have a one-note agenda. It is to
repeal the affordable care act.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We have got to have a real budget.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Democrats on the budget committee are putting forth
pro jobs, pro-growth set of priorities.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Paul Ryan, are you listening?

BOEHNER: It is important when we do appropriation bills to fund the

government shutdown.

invested in failure. And that makes, I think, the kind of enter the
process of fixing glitches as they come up and fine tuning the law, more
challenging. But I am optimistic that we can get them fixed.


O`DONNELL: Joining me now is MSNBC analyst Ezra Klein.

Ezra, I want to take suspense out of the government shutdown possibility by
playing something that Paul Ryan said today where he took a swipe at Ted
Cruz without of course mentioning Ted Cruz`s name. Let`s listen to this.


RYAN: It is very clear a government shutdown does not stop Obamacare
because the government did shutdown and didn`t stop Obamacare. So I don`t
think that is going to be repeated because that is in the past. And it is
very clear that won`t stop Obamacare. We will keep the government funding
at current levels if need be at the end of the day and not have a
government shutdown.


O`DONNELL: So, Ezra does that settle it?

think they will not have a government shutdown. I think that they don`t
think the other one worked out that well for them. Now the government
shutdown has ended. And people can just focus on how Obamacare is going.
That is working out a whole lot better for them.

The other thing happening here, and I think this is not a dynamic to be
underplayed with the Republican Party is it, if they don`t get a budget
deal, the 2014 run sequestration cuts hits. Those are much deeper than it
were in 2013. They are worse for the economy. The worse for various
government parties actually, particularly bad which will upset a lot of
Republicans for defense.

The group of Republican appropriators, wrote a letter saying, please,
please, please, don`t let it happen. But it is a consequence that Paul
Ryan, if they don`t get a budget deal, he can go back and say, look we got
a bunch of new spending cuts. We are doing great. And now the Democrats
have to deal with this latest round of sequestration which they hate. So,
they have something aside from a government shutdown, that they can have
happen automatically which allows them to go back and say they have got a

O`DONNELL: Yes. It has been astonishingly how silently the sequestration
cuts have been proceeding, especially since both sides thought they were
designing something that neither side would be able to stand.

Ezra, I want to move quickly to the affordable care act and where we stand
tonight with implementation and what -- I`m always looking for perspective
on this. Not, I don`t want to do government earning by anecdote. What do
you think the measures out there now are indicating, or is it just too
early to tell?

KLEIN: I mean, in some ways too early tell. Right now, the law remains,
the digital architecture, remains quite poor. It`s not working that well.
You are seeing a rise in enrollment. You are seeing that in the federal
exchange. I think actually the most optimistic sign you saw out of
California. Currently, their enrollment is going so quickly. They are
actually on track to hit the targets.

And what I would say that actually shows, is one. California is a big
state. They were able to make the exchange work. There, you are capable
of doing it if you want to do it and you`ve implement it well. But also,
in a state where you want Obamacare to work and where the digital
architecture is working, it actually works, right? You actually do get the
people signing up. And they get the people signing up for Medicaid. You
get them signing up for the exchange insurance too. And for them to hit
the target is a very big deal. So, I think it speaks to a difference in
the way you see the law going forward. There is the difficulty of glitches
and incompetence of the outset. That is difference than a law that
fundamentally can`t work. I think what you are seeing in California is
that when competently and effective done, it actually can work.

O`DONNELL: Well, you know, as you know Ezra, I live in California. And I
watched it come to California. There was an eagerness, in Sacramento about
this implementation. And there was a lot of coverage about it all the way
through. And there were great expectations. And those great expectations
seem to have been met.

Ezra Klein, thank you very much for joining us tonight.

KLEIN: Thank you.

O`DONNELL: Coming up, a powerful story of a woman who was rape and
survival led her around the world to help other survivors.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Rape is so isolating because even if you tell people
what happened, they are afraid to mention it. So you are surrounded by



O`DONNELL: Former Wyoming Republican senator Alan Simpson commented on the
Cheney family feud today. Senator Simpson told NBC News he is surprise to
see what Liz Cheney seems to be willing to do to try to win a Senate seat.
He said it is hard for all of us who know the Cheneys to see the things she
is doing to win this race. It is almost like "I will do anything to win
this race." Because I cannot ever believe that there would be a breach
between she and Mary.

Coming up, brave Ms. World. The story of the Ms. World winner who has
become a crusader for rape survivors like herself around the world.


O`DONNELL: One in four women worldwide is raped or sexually assaulted in
her lifetime. A new documentary follows one of the women who won the Miss
World beauty pageant, a few weeks after surviving the experience that would
change her life.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I sat in the sand and I was a little tired. He said
you can move off to the back. And we drove for like 1 1/2 hours. I fell
asleep for a bit. I woke up, and I said that`s where he took out the knife
and he said, "take off your clothes." The moment that it is happening
you`re soul is just not there. It is just a valley.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There is only one more prize here tonight and that`s
the big one. Miss World, 1998. It is one of these girls! And Miss World
1998 is Miss Israel!


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: The crowds of Israeli fans welcomed the New
Miss World. No one knew of her ordeal just two months earlier.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You know, I think that we would look to thank you
very, very much for this wonderful warm welcome.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is so much what she has wanted to come home. It
is with great pride and the tears are of joy.


O`DONNELL: Joining me now is the director of "Brave, Miss World."

Cecilia, those were not tears of joy. What had she win through up to that

CECILIA PECK, DIRECTOR, BRAVE, MISS WORLD: Well, six weeks before the Miss
World competition, she had been abducted and raped violently by a Hebrew
speaking travel agent in Milan where she was modeling. And she managed to
escape with her life. And that story is told in the film.

But she had to represent her country in the Miss World competition just six
weeks later and she was in terrible trauma. And she won the Miss World
crown to her complete shock. And she felt that those two events must have
happened so close together for a reason. And that was her mission to one
day tell her story and reach out to other survivors.

O`DONNELL: And she then goes on a multiyear saga where she comes to terms
with this, puts herself through law school eventually, becomes deeply
religious to the surprise of her family in Israel which is not a religious
family. It is a stunning transformation that she goes through. And in the
process becomes a crusader, and helper, to survivors around the world.

PECK: Well I think the film is really her fight for justice. It follows
how she put a serial rapist behind bars at age 18. And at the time, after
her trial, after the verdict, she turned to the camera, and she said to the
women in Israel, if I can do this, you can do I t too. Don`t be afraid to
press charges. And the incidences of rape reports rose significantly. And
laws were enacted in Israel because of her. She really change a culture
there. And this film is her way of trying to do that on a global scale.

O`DONNELL: And she eventually -- they got a conviction on the guy in her
case. She was not allowed to speak directly to the parole board consider
paying role. But she was allowed to write a letter. We have of a scene
from that.




O`DONNELL: That was her mother with her in the scene. And you used news
footage that already existed in the story. You created your own footage.
It is a fascinating mix of the source material that put this together. How
long did it take?

PECK: We filmed with Leonor for five years, partly because funding was so
hard to come by. That`s a big challenge, making documentaries. And we had
amazing executive producers come on when we needed them most so we could do
one more shoot. But it happened to allow us to follow this transformative
journey that she went on. And, the rapist comes up for parole in the
middle of the film which totally shattered her stability. And she began to
suffer PTSD really. And she goes on the hunt for his previous victims. So
she can convince the parole board that he needs to stay in prison.

O`DONNELL: The film is "Brave, Miss World," Oscar buzz, there is Oscar
buzz on this -- you know, this won`t be the first documentary that has been
on the show that got an Oscar nomination. Kirby Dick`s movie was here. He
went to Oscar on this. One of the women from the film, Morgan Carpenter
will join us. We will be right back.


O`DONNELL: My guest Celia Peck, filmmaker born into the world of film.
Here she is with her father, Gregory Peck on the set of "to kill a
mockingbird." The wrap party?

Oh, boy. We will be back with more of "Brave, Miss World."



MORGAN CARPENTER, ACTRESS: When I went to the D.A., it was the first time
I met with her, she sat down. She said she thought he was cute. And She
tried to convince me that I had to have a weak moment. And that it was my


O`DONNELL: That`s Morgan Carpenter in the film "Brave, Miss World."
MORGAN Carpenter joins us now.

Morgan, we have been talking about Lenore, her crusade, and her experience.
You met her when she came to New York.


O`DONNELL: And how did she help you?

CARPENTER: She changed my life. Before I met Lenore, I had been raped a
few years before that. And after it happened, my experience with the D.A.
and everything, didn`t work out as I hoped. And I went into a deep
depression. I didn`t tell anyone about what happened. I didn`t go to
therapy or anything. And, just went numb for years until I met her.

O`DONNELL: And in "Brave, Miss World," we see Lenore in Africa, speaking
with rape survivors and talking about talking. The importance of being
willing to talk about it.

CARPENTER: Yes, she said in the film, you know, rape is isolating. It is.
And I never understood until I felt it. But you feel look you have no one.
You could be in a room full of people and not feel like anyone would
understand you. And I can`t express how important it that`s you do talk to
people. People will understand you, if you reach out to them. People were
less afraid to talk about the subject. Survivors, we would be in a better
place. And we could help each other more.

O`DONNELL: There is, Cecilia, that extraordinary moment with these African
girls, and that scene were just looking at on screen, where one of them
says, people don`t want to hear from us. They just think we want
attention. And Lenore has reply to that is to say tell them you want

PECK: Yes, and cry louder.


PECK: That`s the moment for me when she really became an activist who
could make a difference. And realize that what you need how to do is, give
somebody credibility and listen and love them. And the film is kind of a
guide to how you help somebody recover from a trauma.

O`DONNELL: And Morgan, the numbers are stunning. There is one in four
worldwide. I think in the United States, one in six. When you do start to
talk, do you then discover, this -- the girl in the dorm down the hall, and
suddenly, there are more of you?

CARPENTER: Yes. That -- it`s been incredible. Just since I started
opening up. I`ve found, friend, very close friends, family members, co-
workers. I mean, all most, sadly almost everyone I know has been touched
by this. They have either been assaulted or they know someone that has
been assaulted. And they shared their stories with me. And some of my
close friends have even gone on to get help. And you know, Lenore changed
my life. And if I can help change one other person`s life, that as it
amazing. And that`s what happens when you talk.

O`DONNELL: And you had an unsatisfactory, to put it mildly, encounter with
law enforcement over this. What would you say to women in this situation,
in terms of dealing with law enforcement, based on your experience?

CARPENTER: File the report anyways. You know, even I they tell you are
not, don`t have a case, there is no chance you are going to get anything.
I think it is important you do it anyways. Make yourself heard, you know,
not only is that good for yourself. You can help heal, a little bit better
with that.

But also, you never know where it could lead. And, if, if the perpetrator
tries it again. Maybe there will be some kind of record there. It could
help the next girl. Maybe not you, but maybe the next victim will get

O`DONNELL: And Celia, you have women, young women, women of all ages
speaking abut about this in this film. Many of whom have not spoken out it
publicly before.

PECK: And especially on college campuses. Lenore was very focus on trying
to make campuses a safer places for girls. And it really in shock how hard
it is to report a rape or get someone to listen to you. So, she was 18
when she was raped. And it is a big way we hope the film can make a

O`DONNELL: Celia Peck gets tonight`s last word. The film "Brave, Miss
World" that screens here tomorrow in New York at the doc, NYC documentary
festival. It opens in New York next month.

Morgan Carpenter, thank you for being here. Cecilia Peck, I think you are
on your way to following for your father`s footsteps to the Oscars. He won
it for Mocking Bird, the picture we just saw you there.

PECK: No. He was the host of the Los Angeles Rape center`s first event.
I think he would be really proud of the film.

O`DONNELL: He had such a long resume of good works.

Cecilia Peck, Morgan Carpenter, thank you both.

Chris Hayes is up next.

York. I`m Chris Hayes.


Copyright 2013 CQ-Roll Call, Inc. All materials herein are protected by
United States copyright law and may not be reproduced, distributed,
transmitted, displayed, published or broadcast without the prior written
permission of CQ-Roll Call. You may not alter or remove any trademark,
copyright or other notice from copies of the content.>