PoliticsNation, Thursday, November 6th, 2014

Date: November 6, 2014

Guest: Jonathan Capehart; Jim McDermott, Arnold Abbott, Mark Sims,
Elizabeth Plank, Josh Zepps, Angela Rye

Schultz. "Politics Nation" with Reverend Al Sharpton starts right now.

Good evening, Rev.

REVEREND AL SHARPTON, MSNBC ANCHOR: Good evening, Ed. And thanks to you
for tuning in.

Tonight`s lead, meet the new GOP. Same as the old one. The GOP`s new
spirit of togetherness lasted about as long as one of John Boehner`s golf
games. Just a day after incoming Senate majority McConnell gave some
conciliatory words about the way forward, speaker John Boehner slammed that
door shut when he went after President Obama for his intention to take
executive action on immigration.


REP. JOHN BOEHNER (R-OH), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: I`ve made clear to the
president that if he acts unilaterally, on his own, outside of his
authority, he will poison the well, and there will be no chance for
immigration reform moving in this Congress. When you play with matches,
you take the risk of burning yourself. And he`s going to burn himself if
he continues to go down this path.

This immigration issue has become a political football over the last ten
years or more. It`s just time to deal with it.


SHARPTON: He`s going to burn himself? Strange words when you`re talking
about a president. He is right that it is time -- it`s past time really,
to deal with immigration. But no one should know that better than speaker
Boehner. Just listen to what he himself has said previously.


BOEHNER: I think a comprehensive approach is long overdue.

Is immigration reform dead? Absolutely not.

There`s a possibility that Congress could take this issue up next year.


SHARPTON: For speaker Boehner, it`s always next year for immigration
reform. That`s why so many are hoping the president will take action now.
After all, it`s been 497 days since the Senate immigration bill passed.
And Boehner`s house still has not voted on it.

It`s outrageous. And Boehner`s giving us the same old song and dance on
health care too. In an op-ed today, he admits McConnell renewed their
commitment to repeal Obamacare. And later, he hammered that point home.


BOEHNER: Obamacare is hurting our economy. It`s hurting middle-class
families, and it`s hurting the ability for employers to create more jobs.
And so, the house, I`m sure, at some point next year, will move to repeal


SHARPTON: Wow. Nothing says compromise like your 56-vote to repeal
Obamacare. And look, the facts show the health care law isn`t hurting
jobs. The country has seen 55 straight months of private sector job growth
under President Obama. That historic streak started in March of 2010, the
exact same month the president signed the affordable care act into law.
But speaker Boehner swears he`s just doing what the people want.


BOEHNER: The American people made it clear Election Day, they want to get
things done. My job is to listen to the American people. Listen to the
American people and make their priorities our priorities.


SHARPTON: Priorities? If he was actually working for the American people,
maybe he`d raise the minimum wage. That`s overwhelmingly popular. And
stop corporate tax breaks. That`s popular too.

The speaker should stop trying to take away people`s health care. That`s
how he can and should work for the American people.

Joining me now are MSNBC host Jose Diaz-Balart, and Jonathan Capehart of
"the Washington Post." Thank you both for being here.


SHARPTON: Jose, let`s start with immigration. What did you think of
speaker Boehner`s comments today that the president`s actions would, quote,
poison the well?

JOSE DIAZ-BALART, MSNBC HOST: You know, Rev., it is -- I don`t like to put
motives behind people`s words. I`d rather do what you just did when you
talk about what actions have been held in the past. Because that`s when
you see true motives and intentions.

Let me tell you that the House of Representatives did agree on something on
immigration before they went on their election break. They did agree to
remove funding for any future, deferred action, like the president had done
some years ago, to help hundreds of thousands of kids who were brought here
through no fault of their own by their parents when they were children,
come out from under the shadows and be able to work and to study and to
participate in this society, a society of which they know no other.

So they did do something on immigration. Their message was, we are against
any and all issues that could take this debate forward. So my question is,
my question is, let`s look at what you`ve done in the past. And then we
can see if indeed the well could be tainted or poisoned, or already has

SHARPTON: Now, let me push a little on that, Jose. What is the Hispanic
community`s feeling? What are they saying about the president and the
executive action that he has the option of using, if he has to?

DIAZ-BALART: Rev., I don`t speak for everybody, but I can tell you that
I`m looking at the numbers, for example, on the folks who came out to vote
last Tuesday in the Hispanic community, that could have made a difference,
for example, for the democratic candidates in Colorado. Could have made a
difference for the candidates in Georgia, Louisiana, North Carolina. By
the way, some of those senators -- incoming, were the ones who asked the
president to delay his dealing on immigration until after the election.

I think that there is a feeling that the president had promised in the
sense to Hispanic community that he would act on immigration before the end
of the summer. And then to pause this until after the elections,

For example, the National Hispanic Leadership agenda which the coalition of
39 Latino organizations this week sent the president a note. Saying, we`ve
waited long enough. It`s time for you to stop all deportations of people
who would have qualified under the Senate bipartisan bill signed over a
year ago which the House didn`t want to deal with.

So there is this feeling that, maybe delaying for politics was deeply
troubling when between the period that he decide to delay that immigration
act until whenever he does do it, 70,000 people have been deported, Rev.

SHARPTON: Jonathan, let me ask you this. Was there any sense of a new
John Boehner that we heard today?


CAPEHART: No. No new John Boehner at all. And you know, when you take
all three press conferences together, President Obama`s yesterday at about
3:00, incoming Senate majority leader Mitch McConnell`s press conference an
hour earlier and then John Boehner`s. John Boehner is the one person of
the three who doesn`t sound like he`s conciliatory or is -- even wants to
work with the other side.

Mitch McConnell, for everything that he has said in the past, including he
wanted to make President Obama a one-term president, he was upbeat,
cheerful, made it clear what he was going to do, what he wasn`t going to
do. He drew his lines in the sand in the same way that speaker Boehner
did, but he also made it clear that he`s willing to work with the president
on some key things.

SHARPTON: And the tone of John Boehner was so different.


SHARPTON: Because, Jose, when -- let`s look at the fact that even Lindsey
Graham, a Republican senator, he criticized the president for considering
executive action on immigration, but he said something else very
interesting too. I want to play that, Jose.


SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R), SOUTH CAROLINA: My belief is, this is a dangerous
miscalculation by the president. At the end of the day, the Republican
party would benefit from getting immigration off the table. It would be
hard for me to see how we could win the presidency in 2016, if we`re blamed
for blocking immigration reform.


SHARPTON: Now he says Republicans would get blamed for not acting on
immigration reform. And check this out. Exit polls from Tuesday found 57
percent of Americans support a path way to citizenship.

Jose, if Republicans don`t act now, how badly will it hurt them in 2016?

DIAZ-BALART: Well, I like to look at the past to maybe read tea leaves
about the future. You`ll remember that when Mitt Romney ran for president
against President Obama, his immigration policy was that all of the 11 or
12 million people that are living here without documents, the solution on
immigration would be they would self-deport.

That policy cost him dearly in the Latino community to the tune of 71
percent of all Latinos that voted, voted for President Barack Obama. And
if we do math, I`m not great at math, Rev., but I know this. If there`s a
12 or 13 million voting bloc, and you get 71 percent of 12 or 13 million,
it`s going to do you pretty well.

SHARPTON: Yes, I think I can keep up with that math myself.

Jonathan, let me ask you this. The president, let`s say he signs executive
action, and the Republicans respond. Is that good politics?

CAPEHART: Well, look. The president is between a rock and a hard place,
no matter what he does or doesn`t do, he`s going to unleash hell against
him. If he takes the executive action, Republicans have made it clear it`s
going to poison the well, and I say that they will start articles of
impeachment, because that`s what they have said they are going to do. If
he doesn`t do it, he will make angry immigration activists and advocates
and others who are looking to the president, to once and for all, lead on
something and stop trying to compromise with people who clearly don`t want
to compromise with him.

So the president takes executive action. One, we don`t know exactly what
he`s going to do, how broad this executive order could be or would be. And
that will determine how angry Republicans will get, whether it will go from
rage to inferno rage --

SHARPTON: But, Jose, when Jonathan talks about we don`t know how broad the
executive action would be, you referred to the bipartisan Senate bill that
has passed the U.S. Senate. I mean, that bill was by far the most
compromised bill you could possibly imagine. Certainly, wasn`t a
progressive bill. It took 13 years to get full citizenship for most
people. You talked about over $40 billion for security at the border.

DIAZ-BALART: For the border, yes.

SHARPTON: You are talking about having a tracking device on people`s work
visas. I mean, we`re not talking about amnesty, nowhere near amnesty.

DIAZ-BALART: And it would only include about eight million of the 11 or 12
million people who are working here without documents. So, the question
is, and Jonathan I think hit on a very important point. You have on the
one hand, the Republicans saying don`t poison the well. Well, the well
doesn`t have any water apparently because there`s been nothing coming out
of that well on immigration reform.

And on the other hand, you have progressives, not only Hispanic
organizations, but people like Luis Gutierrez, the congressman from
Illinois, (INAUDIBLE), that says if the president doesn`t go big, there may
be an internal civil war in the Democratic Party, because he has to step

And this last election, Rev., proved that the tepid and the timid don`t
win. The three senators, Democratic senators who asked him to delay
immigration reform, are home wishing maybe that things had gone differently
for them, because they`re losing and they lost.

SHARPTON: That`s right. Well, I`m going to have to leave it there. Jose
Diaz-Balart and Jonathan Capehart, nobody ever accused any of us of being
tepid. Thank you both for your time.

And be sure to watch Jose Diaz-Balart every morning at 10:00 a.m. eastern
right here on MSNBC.

Coming up, a top Republican strategist says thank you to the Democrats for
not having President Obama campaign with them. Unbelievable. Why do
Republicans seem to get it about President Obama, but too many Democrats

Plus, the incredible story of the man who killed Osama bin Laden and his
new fight today. He could now be facing criminal prosecution.

And President Obama`s responding to Michael Jordan`s trash talk about his
golf game. You got to hear this. Stay with us.


SHARPTON: Today speaker Boehner went straight into combat-mode. While
also serving up old ideas that went nowhere in the last Congress. In his
op-ed today in the "Wall Street Journal" he and senator McConnell promised
they`ll be focusing first on jobs and the economy. Boehner repeated the
promise this afternoon.


BOEHNER: You`ve heard me talk many times about the many jobs bills that
the outgoing Senate majority has ignored. Those bills were offer to
Congress, I think a new start.


SHARPTON: A new start? Sounds great. Except, let`s look at these so-
called jobs bills. One calls for repealing Obamacare. Another is the keep
the IRS off your health care act. There`s also Paul Ryan`s path to
prosperity budget and giveaways to big oil. Things like outer continental
shelf boundary hydrocarbon agreements.

This isn`t a jobs plan. It`s a right-wing fantasy list. And over in the
GOP-controlled Senate, they have other concerns besides job bills.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: Will there be hearings on the IRS?

SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R), KENTUCKY: You can bet on that. Yes.


SHARPTON: And the GOP new lead investigator is already promising hearings
on border security and illegal immigration.

The department of homeland security and business regulations, especially
those affecting the energy sector. So the question is, does the new
Republicans majority in Congress have any intention of cooperating with the
president or just investigating him?

Joining me now is Congressman Jim McDermott, Democrat from Washington.
Thank you for being here, first of all, Congressman.

REP. JIM MCDERMOTT (D), WASHINGTON: It is good to be here, Reverend.

SHARPTON: You`ve heard what speaker Boehner had to say today. Does he
seem to have a spirit of cooperation and compromise to you?

MCDERMOTT: Well, Rev., you know probably as well as I do, there`s a verse
in the bible in Matthew 7 that says beware of false prophets, they`re like
riveting wolves. By their deeds you shall know them. And John Boehner is
saying the nice words today, but we know by his deeds for the last four
years, that he has no intention whatsoever of cooperating with the
president of the United States. He could have done that four years ago if
he`d wanted to. But all he`s done is obstruct, along with Mitch McConnell,
they have been chief obstructers in the United States Congress.

And nothing`s going to change between now and the 2016 election. They are
setting the stage for coming into that election saying, we did nothing, and
you ought to elect us and we`ll do more nothing for you.

SHARPTON: Now, you know, it`s interesting you say that because Republicans
are talking a lot about what John Boehner said today about President Obama
supposedly, quote, "poisoning the well." But one reporter asked if Boehner
was the one doing that.

Listen to this exchange, Congressman.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: Isn`t the idea of repealing Obamacare, the
third or fourth line in your op-ed today, isn`t it a sense some way
poisoning the well from your angle?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: When you go to the White House tomorrow.

BOEHNER: No. Our job is to make the American people`s priorities our
priorities. They don`t like Obamacare. I don`t like it. It`s hurting our


SHARPTON: I mean, 497 days and they haven`t voted on the immigration bill
that passed the Senate. You`re in that Congress. They won`t vote on the
bill. They won`t deal with Obamacare. I mean, isn`t Boehner start things
off on a bad note, Congressman.

MCDERMOTT: If they didn`t learn with 50 votes when the Democrats were in
control of the Senate, that they couldn`t get that bill through, they`ll
never learn, Rev. They are going to go and do it again, because they don`t
want the president to ever get the credit for having started national
health insurance. They know he`ll have the same kind of legacy as Franklin
Delano Roosevelt did when he started Social Security and unemployment
insurance, and all the programs that came as a result of the last bank
failure. This bank failure in 2007, what came out of it, was we saved the
banks and we got health care on the road. And they do not want President
Obama to get credit for that.

SHARPTON: Well clearly, they wanted to stop him from being president, then
stop from him being reelected. Now stop his place in history. But they
have already lost the health care fight. They can`t really defeat the
health care act or overturn that, can they, Congressman?

MCDERMOTT: Well, I think -- here`s what I think they`re going to do, Rev.
They`re going to try one repeal, you know, just for a big PR event. But
then what they`re going to do is not fund the subsidies, so people who are
buying policies with subsidies won`t have the money. They`re not going to
subsidize the small businesses that are giving health care to their
workers. They`re going to undercut it in a thousand ways, because some
things need to be extended in this session of the Congress.

If they don`t do that, they can wreck it by simply cutting it out for a lot
of people. They will not be able to affect the people who got on to
Medicaid. Those people are in, they`re safe. They can`t be touched. But
they`ll try to get the middle class, that`s out there struggling and buying
their own health insurance policy, and they can do it because they do not
want to help the middle class.

SHARPTON: It`s going to be a long fight, but we`re in for it. Congressman
Jim McDermott, thank you so much for your time.

MCDERMOTT: We`ll see you.

SHARPTON: Still ahead, you won`t believe what Republicans are saying now
about president Obama, and the Democrats who ran away from him.

Also, a disturbing story out of Florida. Why are officials cracking down
on a 90-year-old man who`s trying to feed the homeless?

But first, the guy who calls global warming a hoax, he`ll be in charge of
the environment committee. We figured out what phenomenon explains that.
Stay with us.


SHARPTON: Some results from the midterms have a lot of people scratching
their heads. Voters in four states chose to raise the minimum wage.
That`s great. But three of those states voted for GOP senators.
Republicans are the ones blocking the minimum wage. But no sign yet that
they`re changing their minds.

In Colorado voters struck down an anti-choice personhood amendment for the
third time. But they voted to send Republican Cory Gardner to the Senate,
the guy who championed national personhood legislation. It`s odd.

But here`s the one that really gets me. With a new Republican majority in
the Senate, senator James Inhofe is slated to become chairman of the
environment committee, the same Senator Inhofe who said this about climate


SEN. JAMES INHOFE (R), OKLAHOMA: The assertion that global warming is
occurring today and it`s occurring because of the release of CO2 and gases
methane and such as that, that`s not a -- these people -- it`s really a
hoax, a hoax that is, the fact that all this is happening is due to man-
made gases. I really believe it`s the greatest hoax ever perpetrated on
the American people.


SHARPTON: D.C.`s biggest climate change denier is now in charge of the
committee of the environment? Wait, I get it now. The GOP is playing
opposites. Hey, I can play too. See opposites, up is down, and left is
right. I love opposite day. I`ll sleep in late, wear blue jeans, and
maybe even eat a cheese burger. It will be a great day.

But until then, did Republicans think we wouldn`t notice they`re fooling
the American people with the opposite day games? Nice try, but we "Got


SHARPTON: Is feeding the homeless a crime? A new law in one Florida town
says it is. And volunteers trying to help the homeless are getting
detained by police for trying to help. Arnold Abbott, a 90-year-old
veteran known as Chef Arnold, has been feeding the homeless in Ft.
Lauderdale, Florida, for nearly 25 years with his non-profit organization
called love thy neighbor. But last month, Ft. Lauderdale city commission
passed an ordinance that makes it much more difficult for charitable groups
to feed homeless. Groups of homeless people out those. Those who break
the law can face a $500 fine and up to 60 days in jail. But this past
Sunday Arnold and two local pastors served food to dozens of homeless
people in a local park. Police broke up the food line and detained the
three volunteers.


UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Shame on you. Shame on you.



UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Why is he being arrested?


SHARPTON: Let`s be clear. Police were just enforcing the new law when
they stopped Abbott and the pastors and Ft. Lauderdale`s mayor says
there`s a reason for the law.


UNIDENTIFIED MAN: We`re not a city that lacks compassion or lacks
kindness. We just feel that if someone is homeless on the streets of Ft.
Lauderdale, we need to get them off the street and into the right places
where they can improve their position, they can improve their situation.
Mr. Abbott is a good guy, he`s got a good heart. I think his intention is
to really feed the homeless. Our intentions with the city of Ft.
Lauderdale go beyond that, our intentions are to try to turn their lives of
the homeless around.


SHARPTON: Last night, Arnold was back at it again, feeding the homeless on
Ft. Lauderdale Beach. And again, he received a citation, was fingerprinted
and ordered to appear in court. But should it be a crime to feed the
homeless? Is there a better solution?

Joining me now are Arnold Abbott and Father Mark Sims who was detained by
police with Arnold on Sunday for feeding the homeless. Thank you both for
being here this evening.



SHARPTON: Arnold, tell us what happened to you on Sunday as you were
trying to feed the homeless?

ABBOTT: Okay, on Sunday, they had passed a law on October 22nd, it went
into effect on Halloween. And obviously they could not arrest people on
Halloween. Or they`d have to arrest several million who were giving candy
to children. But on Sunday, they were enforcing the law. When I got to
our place where we feed at Stratham Park, I found there were five police
cars with flashing lights where we used to stop our van and unload our
food. I just went to the police who were gathered there and said that I
understand that I may be arrested, but I certainly don`t want any of my
volunteers to be involved in this. And their answer was, anybody who takes
any food out of your van, or anybody who sets the table up is subject to

So what I did was, I told my volunteers to please scatter, to go away, get
away from the table, and it was only Reverend Sims and Pastor Black of the
sanctuary church where I do my cooking, who stood beside me. And we got to
feed the third person, as I was putting food into the fourth plate, an
officer grabbed my arm and he said, put down that plate right now! Just as
though I was holding a weapon. And it was kind of amusing. But then he
put his hand on my back and guided me over to a police car, where they
started to write up a citation.

SHARPTON: Now the new ordnance mandates that, and I`m reading the
ordinance, organizations distributing food outdoors would also need the
permission of the property owner and would have to provide portable toilets
for use by workers and those being fed. Father Sims, the city says they
need this ordnance because businesses were being hurt by homeless people in
areas where they were being fed. How do you respond to this, Father?

SIMS: I just absolutely disagree with this. The feeding that occurred on
Sunday occurred on an otherwise empty streets in the city of Ft.
Lauderdale, except for the people who were being fed and the people who
were doing the feeding and the police officers, there was no one else in
the area. The businesses were pretty much closed down. It was a Sunday
afternoon just around 1:00.

SHARPTON: You know, the mayor of Ft. Lauderdale Jack Seiler provided us
with a pretty lengthy statement this evening in which he says, and I`m
reading from it, "While the ordinance regulates outdoor food distribution,
it also permits indoor food distribution to take place at houses of worship
throughout the city." By allowing houses of worship to conduct this
activity, the city is actually increasing the number of locations where the
homeless can properly receive this service. Arnold, would this be a good
compromise for you? Why are you so adamant about being able to feed people
outdoors? Explain that.

ABBOTT: It`s very simple. There are no facilities who will take the
homeless in and allow them to be fed on their premises. That`s the number
one reason. The second thing is that there are 10,000 homeless in Broward
County, of which Ft. Lauderdale is the center, and there are three
shelters, each of which takes in approximately 200 people. There are maybe
600 people who can be accommodated out of 10,000, which hardly means that
there are available accommodations for them. There are none. There are
none. Even the rehabilitative facilities such as bark, people who take
care of supposedly people who have addictions to either alcohol, drugs, or
perhaps, taking care of people who are bipolar. That leaves tons and tons
of people. The answer to Mayor Seiler is that the powers that be, the mega
rich, the powerful who live in Ft. Lauderdale, which is a very wealthy
area, are not willing to do anything else and get rid of the homeless. And
I consider the city commissioners and the mayor nothing more than puppets
who are being guided by the very rich, and told to get rid of them. And
that`s what`s happening.

SHARPTON: Let me ask you this, because I`m going to run out of time.
Father Sims, Arnold has a long history of fighting civil rights causes.
You went with him on Sunday. Do you think you`re going to jail? Do you
think you`re going to do time for this?

SIMS: Well, I sure hope not. I hope that we can certainly go to court and
have this law over turned, or found not guilty. But I`m willing to do
whatever it takes. People will continue to feed hungry people
compassionately on the streets of Ft. Lauderdale.

SHARPTON: All right.

SIMS: The Episcopal Church has been feeding individuals for a long time
and we will continue to do so.

SHARPTON: Well, Arnold, I want to say that we`re going to watch this
story. People can see the mayor`s whole statement on our website
MSNBC.com. We`ll going to follow this. Arnold, you`ve been at it a long
time, 90 years old, and you don`t look tired yet to me. Arnold Abbott and
Father Mark Sims, thank you both for your time this evening and we`ll
continue to follow this.

SIMS: Thank you.

ABBOTT: Thank you, Reverend Al. It`s a pleasure.

SHARPTON: Coming up, a top republican is thanking democrats for sidelining
their, quote, "best messenger, President Obama."

Plus the man who shot and killed Osama bin Laden is revealing his identity.
And now he could face legal action because of it. And President Obama
responds to Michael Jordan`s trash talk. "Conversation Nation" is next.


SHARPTON: We`re back now with "Conversation Nation." Joining me tonight,
Mic.com`s Elizabeth Plank, HuffPost Live host Josh Zepps, and political
strategist Angela Rye. Thank you all for being here tonight.




SHARPTON: You know, I want to start with this top GOP strategist thanking
the democrats, the top dog at the republican senate committee says, way to
go, democrats! They, quote, sidelined their best messenger, by running
from President Obama. He went on to say, quote, "they were so focused on
independents that they forgot they had a base. They left their base
behind. They became republican-like." Angela, amazing comments. So did
democrats make a mistake running away from the president?

RYE: No question. We`ve said this ad nauseam.

SHARPTON: How can republicans see it if democrats couldn`t?

RYE: Blank to the facts. I`m not sure, Rev. I think at the end of the
day, people thought that they needed to cater to a population of people
that may not ever be in our voting bloc. The reality of it is, the
Democratic Party is a big tent party for a reason and we can`t forget about
the rest of the people in the tent to go chase some folks that are not

SHARPTON: They`re not even in the yard outside.

RYE: Outside the gate.

ZEPPS: It`s also just this incredible excess of political caution that we
see at the moment. There`s no sense of actually being an individual and
talking about issues outside of political cliches. Look at Alison
Lundergan Grimes in Kentucky, a state where Obama was actually popular, she
could have run on ObamaCare, she couldn`t assess herself with Obama,
instead she wouldn`t even say whether or not she voted for him in 2012.

RYE: Right.

ZEPPS: This is the politics of let me just stand very still and hope I
blend into the background and maybe no one will see me like a cuddle fish.

SHARPTON: But Liz, and it doesn`t even work.

PLANK: Well, exactly.

SHARPTON: It didn`t even work.

PLANK: And to me, it`s interesting that he would say, that Collins would
say that this is republican-like. I think republicans actually ran on
platforms that were democratic-like. We saw very radical candidates like
Scott Walker, Joni Ernst actually run on very progressive policy.

RYE: But that was something to the general, because in the primaries, they
were almost Tea Party-like.

PLANK: Exactly. But what does that say about how the country feels about
progressive policies?

RYE: Sure.

PLANK: How the country feels about what democrats have been saying all
along? You know, minimum wage, policies that aren`t anti-choice. All of
these things were very popular.

SHARPTON: But isn`t that the point, that if the popular policies are, in
fact, what the people wanted, if they didn`t run away from the policies,
they were the natural ones to represent those policies?

RYE: And that`s just the thing. So, we have to keep going back to the
ballot initiatives that made it on to the ballots. Five of them, two of
them are, well, we don`t know what`s going to happen in Alaska yet. But
Arkansas, we know it happened.


RYE: Mark Pryor lost but minimum wage won.

ZEPPS: Yes. The voters are saying they want progressive policy and they
want republicans to --

SHARPTON: Minimum wage passed in several states. Personhood went down. I
mean, where are these people that are running getting their advice from?
And now you have a republican strategist thanking them.

RYE: It`s the same thing, you know how there is a GOP autopsy report. The
democrats need one now. Because you keep hiring the same folks, pollsters
that have the percentages off. They were wrong. You don`t go after people
that -- people of color, young people sat out in some states.

ZEPPS: We saw the same problem happens in Al Gore`s presidential campaign.
We saw the same problem happen in Hillary --

RYE: It`s the same people. It`s the same people.

ZEPPS: It`s this extreme poll testing. You know, Mark Udall says, you
know, let`s just talk about women`s reproductive rights, because that`s
something that plays well with the base, but what about the economy? What
about Obama?

PLANK: The GOP is running on the economy, the last time they did that and
they took the house in 2010, the three first policies that they passed were
anti-choice legislation. So, to me, this is like wolf, you know, in sort
of a sheep`s clothing. They`re pretending like their --

RYE: In democrat`s clothing.

PLANK: But who knows what they`re going to do once they`re in power?

RYE: Nothing. Nothing.

SHARPTON: But don`t you think the President could have articulated these
policies, don`t you think the President could have energized the base?


Wait, wait, wait, wait. Don`t you think the President could have energized
the base that became lukewarm because people was running away from him,

RYE: Yes, and I think that in the places where he went, he did. All they
had to do was literally utilize the same talking points about his
accomplishments that he`s been touting for the last full year about growth
in the economy, private sector job growth, and minimum wage, which he chose
to raise by executive order, for the executive branch.

SHARPTON: Josh, a lot of people on social media, twitter, are very upset.
I`ve been raising since whenever. I mean, this is outrageous to me. It`s

ZEPPS: I think it`s part of this hunkering down and this extreme attention
to detail. This desire to never step out of the box, to never do anything
risky, to only focus on poll-tested, you know, basically talking points,
instead of taking a big picture, being an authentic human being and
authentic candidate talking about your relationship with the President
accepting that the President isn`t that popular at the moment maybe. But I
stand with him because I`m a democrat. People aren`t going to just fail to
notice you`re a democrat.

SHARPTON: I got to move on, but is this a forecast for `16, are we
starting to see a new form of triangulation in the form here?

PLANK: No, I mean, 2016 will be entirely difficult because we have an
entirely different demographic of people voting. Thirteen percent of the
electorate was young people. That`s so low. And that will be very
different in 2016. So, I think, you know, sure, republicans can celebrate
all they want, but it`s going to be very different in 2016.

SHARPTON: All right. We`ll talk about that as we get closer to 16. But
now to an amazing story, the man who shot Osama bin Laden is revealing
himself for the first time. He`s Robert O`Neill, member of the famed seal
team six, and he`s the guy that fired those three shots that forever
changed our world. The 38-year-old from Montana was on the team for 16
years. He went on more than 400 combat missions and killed more than 30
targets. On an upcoming TV appearance, he`s expected to talk about the
raid and the training. The Pentagon is reportedly furious and have warned
he could face criminal prosecution, saying it goes against the seal code of
conduct, which states, I do not advertise the nature of my work, nor seek
recognition for my actions. Josh, the man is an American hero. Should he
face punishment for revealing his identity?

ZEPPS: Of course he should, but he won`t. He has broken the law. I mean,
this contravenes -- just even the morality of this contravenes to me,
everything that the SEALs are supposed to stand for. Everything that the
military is supposed to stand for. Which is not self-aggrandizement, which
is not selling out. Which is not self-glorifications. It`s supposed to be
about higher principles than that. Look at how we go after NSA

PLANK: Right.

ZEPPS: Okay? You know, and they are doing something out of principle.
Not necessarily out of self-aggrandizement, he is a guy who is divulging
state secrets. I mean, on Article 92 of the uniform kind of military
justice, he could be tried and he could be dishonorably discharged. He
could go to jail. He should at the very least lose his pension and lose
his health benefits. It`s abysmal.

SHARPTON: But apparently, Angela, he`s four years short of his pension.
He needs money.

RYE: Right.

SHARPTON: I mean, at one level I adjust, another level, should a hero like
that, leave the military with no pension and no money?

RYE: I don`t think that`s the answer either. At the same time, isn`t this
like the million dollar question? We talk about this all the time with our
veterans. Veterans come back, I mean, not only in 2014, but think about
years ago when men of color fought in the war and they came back shamed and
still had to drink out of separate water fountains. I think at the end of
the day, folks have to figure out a way to treat our military heroes as
such. I don`t think that this is the answer either.

ZEPPS: Do you seriously believe he couldn`t have gotten a job as a private
security firm?

PLANK: He couldn`t get his benefits.

ZEPPS: Oh, come on! He has the greatest credential that any military
person could possibly have. Yes. But he can say secretary to a person who
is employing him at a private security firm --


SHARPTON: Go ahead, Liz. I feel like I`m fighting.


PLANK: The fact that the man who has killed Osama bin Laden cannot find a
job, with the level of skill that he has, I think, is really illustrates
the problem that we have in your country, where we don`t have the
infrastructure to reintegrate these people in society and to find them
jobs. I don`t blame him for wanting to make a few extra bucks.

ZEPPS: A few extra bucks?

PLANK: Well, to some money.

RYE: He`s already doing public speaking.

SHARPTON: I`m going to have to close it there.

RYE: Come on, Rev.

SHARPTON: Did you hear that Michael Jordan said that the President`s golf
game was not that great? Well, the President is hitting back. You`ll want
to hear this one.

Also, we`ll look at what compromise really means in Washington. Stay with


SHARPTON: Back now with "Conversation Nation." Elizabeth, Josh, and
Angela. President Obama`s responding to Michael Jordan`s trash talking.
Jordan was recently asked who his dream foursome would be, and wound up
dissing the President`s game.


UNIDENTIFIED MAN: If you had to pick a foursome to play with --


UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Never played with Obama, but I would. But, no, that`s
okay, I`d take him out. He`s a hack. Be all day playing with him.

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Do you really want to say that about the President of
the United States?

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: I never said he wasn`t a great politician. I`m just
saying, he`s a (bleep) golfer.

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: No, he`s not a bad golfer.


SHARPTON: Well, the President was asked about it on a radio show, and he
got right into the trash talk.


PRES. BARACK OBAMA (D), UNITED STATES: Michael wasn`t very well informed
about this. I think he might have been just trying to give Ahmad an extra
ratings boost on his show. But there is no doubt that Michael`s a better
golfer than I am. Of course if I was playing twice a day for the last 15
years, then that might not be the case. You know, he might want to spend
more time thinking about the bobcats, or maybe the hornets.



SHARPTON: Ouch. Liz, who got the best of this?

PLANK: Slam dunk. I think it will be FOX News when they use it to prove
that Obama can`t take on Putin or something. Or that he can take on ISIS.
I`m really excited to see what the right-wing is going to do with this one.

SHARPTON: All right, Josh?

ZEPPS: I think Obama has got bigger fish to fry than Michael Jordan
frankly. He`s got more on his plate.


RYE: The President won. Michael Jordan is eating crow right now, and a
golf baller too.

SHARPTON: All right. Well, let me thank the panel and let me tell you
all, I wouldn`t be tangling with the President if I was Michael Jordan. Be
right back.


SHARPTON: In the last 24 hours since the midterm election, we`ve heard a
lot of talk about compromise. And we`ve heard the President say he`s
willing to compromise, but he`s going to stand by certain principles.
We`ve heard Senator McConnell say the same, and Mr. Boehner. Well, I`ve
not seen a record of McConnell or Boehner compromising. I know personally
the President compromising. When he first went in office May of 2009, he
had me in the oval office with Newt Gingrich and told both of us, go on
tour together, work together on education. He said to me, Al, sometime you
have to work with people you don`t agree with, if you believe in what you
stand for is more important. Let`s see who believes in the American

Thanks for watching. I`m Al Sharpton. "HARDBALL" starts right now.


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