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The Ed Show for Wednesday, February 11th, 2015

Read the transcript to the Wednesday show

Date: February 11, 2015
Guest: Lawrence Korb, Bill Carter, Lizz Winstead, Dave Marciano, Paul
Herbert, Michio Kaku

ED SCHULTZ, MSNBC HOST: Good evening Americans and welcome to the Ed Show
live from New York. Let`s get to work.


terrorists to have a safe haven.

SCHULTZ: Tonight, authorizing action against ISIS.

REP. JOHN BOEHNER, (R-OH) HOUSE SPEAKER: The president`s point is that he
wants to dismantle and destroy ISIS.

OBAMA: I believe this resolution can grow even stronger with the
thoughtful and dignified debate that this moment demands.

BOEHNER: I haven`t seen the strategy yet that I think will accomplish

OBAMA: This resolution strikes the necessary balance by giving us the
flexibility we need for unforeseen circumstances.

SCHULTZ: And later, interrupting your regularly scheduled programming.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Brian Williams has been suspended without pay for six

LESTER HOLT, ANCHOR, NBC`S TODAY SHOW: Brian told us, it`s clear he`s
becoming too much a part of the news.


JON STEWART, THE DAILY SHOW HOST: I am a terrible employee.

O`DONNELL: Stewart announced, he will step down later this year.

STEWART: It is time for someone else to have that opportunity and -- no,
no, no, no, no.

SCHULTZ: Plus, fly me to the moon.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We started thinking about living somewhere else.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Our next destination on this journey is the moon.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: To extend the commercial sphere to the moon.

SCHULTZ: A new era of space travel sets imaginations and big business


SCHULTZ: Good to have you with us tonight folks. Thanks for watching.

President Obama is officially asking Congress to authorize military force
against ISIS. If approved, it will be the first time in 13 years Congress
has authorized military use of force.

Just moments ago, President Obama laid out the details of his proposal.


OBAMA: Today, my administration submitted a draft resolution to Congress
to authorize the use of force against ISIL.

This resolution reflects our core objective to destroy ISIL. It supports
the comprehensive strategy that we`ve been pursuing with our allies and our
partners, a systemic and sustained campaign of airstrikes against ISIL in
Iraq and Syria. Support and training for local forces on the ground,
including the moderate Syrian opposition. Preventing ISIL attacks in the
region and beyond, including by foreign terrorist fighters who try to
threaten our countries.


SCHULTZ: The authorization also strengthens the Iraqi government and
provides humanitarian assistance to the region.

The President`s legislation would repeal the 2002 Iraq War authorization.
It will leave in place though the 2001 authorization to fight al-Qaeda and
its affiliates.

President Obama`s proposal was sent to Congress shortly after the death of
American hostage Kayla Mueller, the draft specifically mentioned Mueller
and three other American hostages killed by ISIS.

The President`s request is far more measured than George W. Bush`s 2002
Iraqi war authorization.

The 2002 authorization was broad, open-ended and never expired. The main
measure of the new authorization is to limit the use of ground troops
against ISIS. President Obama made this clear earlier today.


OBAMA: The resolution we`ve submitted today does not call for the
deployment of U.S. ground combat forces to Iraq or Syria. It is not the
authorization of another ground war, like Afghanistan or Iraq. The 2,600
American troops in Iraq today largely serve on bases. And yes, they face
the risks that come with service in any dangerous environment. But they do
not have a combat mission.

The United States should not get dragged back into another prolonged ground
war in the Middle East. That`s not in our national security interest and
it`s not necessary for us to defeat ISIL.


SCHULTZ: The authorization specifically says ground troops cannot be used
in, "enduring offensive ground combat operations." It`s carefully worded
ground troops can still be used in other operations like rescue mission,
intelligence collection and special ops forces can be used against ISIS

Another big change is the hard time table. The authorization to fight ISIS
will run out in three years. The President will be required to give an
update to Congress ever six months. This authorization will no doubt limit
the next President`s ability to wage a ground war against ISIS but the
President could always go back to Congress for a new authorization.

Meanwhile, Republicans are already crying foul.

Jon Boehner, Speaker of the House said this about the defense authorization
earlier today.


BOEHNER: I believe that if we`re going to authorize the use of military
force, the President should have all the tools necessary to win the fight
that we`re in. And so as you`ve heard me say over the last number of
months, I`m not sure that the strategy that`s been outlined will accomplish
the mission the President says he wants to accomplish.


SCHULTZ: It could be the first time even John Boehner wants to give
President Obama more power.

On Tuesday, Senator John McCain said that he would support a new
authorization if it places no restrictions on troop movements.

At this hour, senators Corker of Tennessee and McCain are leading a
discussion with lawmakers on the President`s proposal.

There`s actually some conversation in Republican circles that some won`t
support this. This is rather ironic.

Back in 2002, if the Democrats had not supported the President they would
have been called anti-American. Don`t support the troops on a pre-9/11 war
footing, come on.

The President has a strategy. The Congress needs to support it until
there`s another commander-in-chief or let the debate begin.

The righties want more war, more troops, what`s their plan other than to
criticize the President? It seems to me that this vote is long overdue and
it clears the beach and closes any political loophole that might be out
there to make sure that this country if focused and on the same page going
after ISIS.

Get your cellphones out. I want to know what you think.

Tonight`s question, "Is President Obama doing the right thing by asking
Congress for a force authorization?" Text A for yes, text B for no to
67622, you can leave a comment on our blog at We`ll bring
you the results of the poll later on in the show.

For more on this discussion tonight let`s go to Lawrence Korb. He is a
senior fellow at the Center for American Progress.

Mr. Korb, good to have you with us tonight.


SCHULTZ: Is this is a strategy? Is this clearly focused?

KORB: Well, I think it is and that`s why it`s interesting as you mentioned
Speaker Boehner doesn`t like because he doesn`t like the strategy, he wants
to say a different one.

The one thing I wish he would have done was repeal the 2001 authorization
of military force because that`s open-ended. He can use it or successors
can use it to, you know, really broaden the conflict and pretty much to
anything they want.

SCHULTZ: So, the deployment of troops, I understand this that the
President would have to go back to Congress if he wants to deploy troops in
a combat mission in Iraq and Syria against ISIS?

KORB: According to this he would. In other words, if they wants to send
like 150,000 troops to Iraq like we did back in 2003, yes he would. But
there again, if the Republicans get their way he wouldn`t because that
would place no limits on what he can do. Both Speaker Boehner and Senator
McCain don`t want to place any limits.

SCHULTZ: So Mr. Korb, what`s different? What makes yesterday`s operation
different from tomorrows?

KORB: Well, I think basically what the President is trying to say is, yes,
he wants to fight ISIL but it`s going to be a limited engagement and if you
want to have massive ground forces like we did in Iraq and Afghanistan.
They`re not going to come from the United States, they`re going to have to
come from the countries in the region because of under (ph) the final
analysis it`s really their struggle.

SCHULTZ: Your impressions of what we`re hearing from conservatives that
this doesn`t go far enough and they don`t want to limit any ground troops
or any kind of movement.

KORB: Well, again, they want a different strategy but the fact of the
matter is, they`re not the commander-in-chief, they don`t control the White
House. And they can approve or disapprove but if they put in the language
that they want, basically we`re back to where we are with the 2001 AUMF
when you say, well you don`t want to restrict the President`s hand and I
thought it was ironic when you mention, there`s Boehner who is always
complaining about, you know, Obama over stepping and, you know, being
imperial President.

He doesn`t want to put any restrictions on. And I think what they want is,
if it doesn`t go well they can say, well, we said you should have, you
know, had more authority rather than, you know, voting on the President`s

SCHULTZ: So why do you think the President is doing this now? And is it
important to get the Republicans on record here?

KORB: Well, I think it is because when we go to war which we are I think
it`s important for the American people to be involved through their
elective representatives and I would -- it would be great if we had a great
debate about this, what can the President do, how many forces do we have, I
would, you know, I, you know, I looked at the thing that President said, I
wish there were some geographic limits on it.

You know, where do we, you know, where do we stop and then back to this
language about associated groups, well, where is that start? I mean, you
and I can, you know, say, we`re going to start our own version of...


KORB: ... ISIL and so I think those -- I hope that those come out in the

SCHULTZ: Do you think the executions of American hostages have had
anything to do with this...

KORB: Well, I think...

SCHULTZ: ... or would have this happen anyway?

KORB: You know, I think, well, I mean, I think the execution has gotten
the American people to support it. Because back in August when we first
went in there to rescue the Yazidis on Mount Sinjar, the American people
said, not Iraq again, we don`t want to do that. But when they saw how
horrible these people are by beheading the two Americans and now, however,
they killed this poor young lady from Arizona. I think they`re going to
want military action but not a big ground war.

SCHULTZ: Well, we really don`t know if we`re making a lot of progress, do

KORB: No, we...

SCHULTZ: We don`t hear a whole lot of chest pounding on what we`re doing
to ISIS, the strikes continue but they don`t seem to be hindered too much
in the way they`re moving or the way they`re acting.

KORB: Well, I think we are making progress but it`s not going to be done
overnight. And I disagree with the President where he says, you know,
degrade and defeat. We can degrade them but to defeat them you have to
undermine their narrative.

And what they did to that Jordanian pilot by burning him alive, I think is
going to send a signal to folks...


KORB: ... on that part of that world who might want to join them that this
is not the future of Islam.

SCHULTZ: So does the President really believe that this is the way to go
to defeat ISIS? Or is he just making sure that we don`t make another
mistake and put ground troops? I mean, if we put ground troops in combat
position and did combat operations, obviously, I think conventional wisdom
is we`d be a heck of a lot more successful than what we`re doing right now.

KORN: Yeah, but...

SCHULTZ: So do you think -- or Am I wrong on that? That`s an opinion
point but I mean that that`s the argument that`s going to come from
conservatives that we`d get the job done a hell of a lot faster if we had
troops on the ground getting after these folks. We can only do limited
things with airstrikes in special ops.

So the question is, is the President doing this because he really believes
this is the proper strategy or is he doing it because he know Americans
really, right now, don`t have an appetite for ground troops?

KORB: Well, it`s the proper strategy for two reasons. Number one, the
Iraqis don`t want us to send ground troops again. It`s kind of, we`ve been
there and done that.

And then, the other is at some point, you got to leave and if those
countries are not willing to fight and die for their own or their soldiers
are not willing to fight and die for their country, it will happen again.

So I think it`s so important we got to get the Iraqi military ready because
eventually we`re going to leave. And the same way in Syria, you`re going
to have to have an army in there that`s against Assad and against ISIS if
you ever want to bring this to a conclusion.

But it`s not going to happen overnight because of the fact that this is an
ideology that keeps attracting unfortunately people from around the world
to go there.

SCHULTZ: All right. Lawrence Korb, great to have you on the Ed Show. I
appreciate your time tonight -- your expertise on this. Thank you.

Remember to answer tonight`s question there at the bottom of the screen.
Share your thoughts with us on Twitter @edshow, like us on Facebook and
thanks for that.

Coming up. The changing media landscape, we`ll be joined by the co-creator
of "The Daily Show" and one of the top media minds in the country.

Plus, the Keystone bill is expected at the head of the President`s desk

Stay with us. We`ll be right back.


SCHULTZ: Welcome back to the Ed Show.

News of two major media shake-ups broke Tuesday night. The earth was
almost shaking.

NBC National Correspondent Peter Alexander has our first story.


suspended without pay for six months. He`s both anchor and managing editor
of NBC`s Nightly News, the role he`s held since 2004.

NBC News President Deborah Turness announced the suspension late Tuesday
saying Williams misrepresented events regarding an incident that occur
during his coverage of the Iraq War in 2003. She called that wrong and
completely inappropriate for someone in Brian`s position.


SCHULTZ: In addition to the suspension, NBC News says its internal review
is ongoing. NBC News President Deborah Turness also confirmed Lester Holt
will continue to substitute anchor, the NBC Nightly News.

Next up. After 16 years manning the desk at the Daily Show, host Jon
Stewart announced that he will be stepping down.


STEWART: It`s been an absolute privilege. It`s been the honor of my
professional life. And I thank you for watching it, for hate watching it,
whatever reason you are tuning in for. It -- you get in this business with
the idea that maybe you have a point of view and something to express. And
to receive feedback from that is the greatest feeling you can ask for. And
I thank you.


SCHULTZ: Stewart will remain at the helm of the Nightly Show until later
this year.

Comedy Central released a statement thanking Stewart for the better part of
the last two decades writing, "He will always be a part of the Comedy
Central family."

Joining me tonight, Bill Carter, National Media Reporter, also with us
Comedian and co-creator of the Daily Show Lizz Winstead. Great to have
both of you with us tonight on these two big stories.

First, let`s talk about Jon Stewart. Bill, what was your reaction when you
heard this?

BILL CARTER, NATIONAL MEDIA REPORTER: Well, you know, I wasn`t totally
shocked because I think Jon has been laying out sort of the possibility for
quite a while. And, you know, I think it`s unusual only in the sense that,
you know, late night is usually like the end of someone`s career. They
start and they finished doing that because there`s nothing else you can do
after late night and I think it`s exciting that he`s doing something new.

But, I also think that the format brilliantly created here by our other
guest is really a great format. So it`s not like only Jon Stewart can do

SCHULTZ: Lizz, did you have any idea that Stewart would be as impactful as
he has been?

LIZZ WINSTEAD, CO-CREATOR, THE DAILY SHOW: You know, you never -- if I
were to say yes, you should tell (ph) at the show because (inaudible)

But I think knowing Jon and knowing that he has been a voracious consumer
of information and news and always made it fun since I`ve known the guy
since 1990.

I knew that he would be able to take the framework that I have setup and
make it his own. And I think the thing that he did that`s astoundingly
wonderful for the franchise is that he worked as hard on his own material
as he did on shaping the correspondents, shaping the material so that -- he
was preparing the show for a legacy as much as he was preparing himself to
leave. And I think that`s really impressive.

SCHULTZ: So, will there be another Jon Stewart? I mean, I used to watch
Johnny Carson thinking, gosh, nobody is ever going to be doing late night
again. Well, you know, people are replaceable.

WINSTEAD: You know, I don`t think you want another Jon Stewart...


WINSTEAD: ... I think he want Jon Stewart to go take Jon Stewart to the


WINSTEAD: ... level. And I think what you want to do is -- he gave us
John Oliver and we want John Oliver sit in that chair and seamlessly do a
John Oliver version until...

CARTER: Yeah, exactly. And, Lizz, -- and he created Stephen Colbert. I
think people can bring their own...


CARTER: ... talents to the show, that`s what will happen.

SCHULTZ: Did you ever expect, Bill Carter, that people would view Jon
Stewart as a news guy. And there are people that think well, I mean, he`s
not B.S. at all I`m going to get straight from him and there`s going to be
attempt to comedy to the whole thing.

CARTER: Well, especially young viewers who don`t really watch a lot of
news shows. They`ve turn to him and he gave them information along with
the comedy. But he also had a point of view so he -- to me he was the best
editorial page cartoonist that we have now. That`s what he was doing.

SCHULTZ: Do you think he was surprise by that? The way it evolve and the
way he was viewed by people as a news source by millennial.

WINSTEAD: Yeah. Because I think that, Jon is not being dishonest when he
says, we`re a comedy show first...

CARTER: Yes, exactly.

WINSTEAD: ... he`s really believes that...


WINSTEAD: ... and he really is that. And so, the things that people put
upon him is not his, that`s not of his making. He does what he does, he
can -- he brilliantly exposes hypocrisy through humor. And if people are
putting that much pressure on Jon Stewart to be the news man, it says more
about the news that it does about Jon Stewart.

CARTER: He comes at -- from a comic sensibility. He will say I`m a
comedian always.


CARTER: And I have to press his more (ph) because I would say, what you`re
doing is a formal journalism. And he said, no it`s not, I`m a comedian.
Yet, he would occasionally do interviews that were truly news making.


CARTER: Really, really true and, boy, if you get on the wrong side of him
you didn`t want to be, you know, screwed when he could screw you. So he
had journalism chats (ph) for sure.

SCHULTZ: Was that part of the whole genre? I mean, that he could, you
know, do things that other information or info team and people couldn`t do
and yet he could come through with the hard question and really make you
looks stupid at times.

CARTER: Absolutely.

SCHULTZ: I mean, that no one really broke through in that way did they?

CARTER: Well, I think Jon brought an absolutely unique take on this whole
idea of what you can do with news on television, I do.

But I think it was also -- it was real information. You could find -- I
found out things on that show all the time. You know, the other thing here
were fantastic at research.


CARTER: They would find a clip of somebody saying something that you
couldn`t believe -- they wouldn`t believe that you could find it. They
were great at that and that, that`s a form of, you know, real journalism,


CARTER: ... new information like that.

WINSTEAD: And what you want to do with your new host is make sure that you
have somebody who has such a voracious curiosity for information, somebody
I hope the person that they choice comes to the party with that, because
when you`re in a room and you`re looking for that colonel. It`s important
that every single...


WINSTEAD: ... person has a bit of, look there I remember that guy, I
remember that story, you know, you really want that.

SCHULTZ: So in creating this, Lizz, did you think that there would be a
real appetite for this? Did you think that it would evolve into the
machine that it is?


SCHULTZ: I mean, how did you envision this show when it`s started and when
you`re creating it and to where it is today?

WINSTEAD: Well, in the creating of it, part of it was -- I had been really
watching the media with the first Gulf War and watching -- you forget it
was a different media landscape back then. There was only one cable
channel. The Evening, I think there was like 20 like news magazines...

CARTER: Right.

WINSTEAD: ... that we`re doing all that kind of scary, your mattress, what
you don`t know might kill you. And then a lot of local that believes these
(ph) kind of stories.

So our format was based on the existing media that was. And so, we really
satirize local news, and news magazines and the format that way.

I think that -- I don`t think that I`ve ever though that there would be
three cable channels in the course...

CARTER: Right.

WINSTEAD: ... of the same year we launched. And that we would be looking
at so much horrible ways to fill time. You know, like the -- like, you
know, going in -- the poop cruise for, you know, 24 hours. I mean, that
kind of stuff was really the bread and butter.

But, you know, you put Jon at helm and then he followed the trajectory of
the media so brilliantly that -- and then added his spin. I just don`t
know how you -- I just literally don`t know how you find that person who
was dedicated, so spot on and also like -- can make -- as the confidence to
make the right choices, to get the show up every night like it`s not just a
funny person. It`s a person who has a whole bunch of...


WINSTEAD: ... character traits that you need to have in place.

CARTER: A real leader. Yes.

WINSTEAD: A real leader.

CARTER: Yes, he has to be the leader of the show.


SCHULTZ: Bill, where do you think it goes from here?

CARTER: Well, I think they`re going to work very hard to find a
replacement. I think Jon has timed this in a way that whoever comes in
will get full crack at the next presidential election...


CARTER: ... which a smart move.

There`s always news to satirize in that format and I think -- they`re going
to really throw everything they have because this is the franchise for the
Comedy Central network.

Now, it is -- I mean South Park is a great show and was actually on before,
I think your show was it or?




CARTER: But it has partly given them identity. But that`s on -- one night
a week. This is four nights a week with a signature star. It`s the
franchise for this network.

SCHULTZ: You think he wore out? You think he just got tired doing it?

CARTER: I don`t think he got tired because you could still see he was
brilliant. But I do think he`s a guy with a lot of imagination and maybe -
- you know what he said. He said on air, he said he was restless. That`s
what it came down to. He was restless.

SCHULTZ: So he is -- I could interpret that as he thinks he`s probably
done everything he can do on that show and it`s time to move on.

WINSTEAD: I think he would like switch up in his hours too. I think he
really want to spend some time...


WINSTEAD: ... with his kids and his wife. I mean, it`s like I always say,
you know, you get on the show like that and if you`re not in a relationship
when you get into the show, you`re never going to get to have sex again,
you`re never going to get eat at a normal hour, you`re going to be drinking
booze at 8:00 in the morning. Like everything is...

CARTER: It does consume your life.

WINSTEAD: ... off the chart.

SCHULTZ: Lizz Winstead and Bill Carter, great to have both of you with us
tonight. Thank so much.


SCHULTZ: Coming up. The Keystone XL Pipeline Bill is on its way to the
President desk.

Plus, the boiling point on overfishing, the guys from the hit reality show,
"Wicked Tuna."

Now, OK, I fish we`re going to have compare notes here. They`re concerned
about the growing environmental threat to our oceans.

That`s all coming up stay with us.


SCHULTZ: Welcome back to the Ed Show.

Breaking News from Capitol Hill, the Republican control House has just
passed a bill to approve construction of the proposed Keystone XL pipeline.
The vote was 270 to 152, 29 Democrats voted for the bill.

Once again wasting time and taxpayer money by voting for a bill President
Obama has vowed to be veto.

GOP law makers are trying to portray the expected veto as an example of
President Obama`s obstructing bipartisan job creation.


BOEHNER: Keystone has been reviewed and approved numerous times. Even our
President`s own state department we`ll say it creates 42,000 new jobs. But
instead of listening to the people, the President is standing with a bunch
of left-fringe extremist and anarchist. The President needs to listen to
the American people and say, yes. Let`s build the Keystone pipeline.


SCHULTZ: So, if you`re concern about climate change you`re an anarchist,

Republicans are wrong. The Keystone XL pipeline would not create thousands
of permanent jobs. They would be temporary. It`s become political theater
and really a waste of time.

Republicans want to prevent President Obama for making any progress. The
Senate Environment and Public Works Committee will hold a hearing examining
the Obama administration`s plan to curb heat trapping carbon dioxide from
power plants. The initiative is the corner zone of the President`s effort
to curb global warming.

The House is expected to unveil a larger energy bill next week.

There`s a lot more coming up on the Ed Show. Stay with us. We`ll be right

Market Wrap.

Stock closing flat after tough day (ph) of trading. The Dow losing 6
points, the S&P ending flat and the NASDAQ breaking out with the 13 point

Some breaking after the closing bell today, shipping lines are planning a
40-day shutdown of U.S. West Coast ports amidst stalled negotiations with
the dockworkers union. And Netflix is blaming a technical glitch after its
"House of Cards" Season 3 was briefly in posted online.

That`s it from CNBC, first in business worldwide.


SCHULTZ: Welcome back to the Ed Show.

One of those popular shows on television is "Wicked Tuna." And if you love
the fish the way I do, just let`s cut to the chase.

These guys are living their dream, they ain`t working.


SCHULTZ: I got to tell you bluefin tuna and some of those beautiful fish
in the world, very powerful. In the ocean they can reach up to 13 feet in
length and weigh over 2,000 pounds.

Now, these fish put up a fabulous fight and they can dive 4,000 feet. I
mean you better have a lot of line here folks.

Now, the bluefin tuna is really, really priced for its high quality meat.
It`s mainly used in sushi and 80 percent of the bluefin is consumed in
Japan. They are so popular they demand really a high price at the market,
absurd number actually.

In January, the first bluefin of the year sold for $37,000. The 380-pound
fish went for $98 a pound. Now demand has caused tuna populations around
the world to plummet somewhat.

Now last year, NOAA said the Pacific bluefin population was estimated at
just 40,000 adult worldwide. It`s just 4 percent of the fish`s historic

In the Atlantic, strict fishing quotas have caused populations to rise in
recent years.

In 1998, the bluefin population was one-fifth of the 1970`s level. Today,
it`s one-half of the 1970`s level.

Our next guests know all about sustainable tuna fishing. They follow the
rules and they know how to really do what has to be done on deck to land
that big fish.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Kick the bow. Kick the bow.

Keep going. Keep going. A little more.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey, get ready this maybe it, once I come around on him

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s right there.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Pull her up (inaudible).


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, how did that feel?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yeah. He is a round one. That is a round fish.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I can see that.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We don`t have him yet. We have to get a tail strap on

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get it over. Get it over there.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, good job, Jay (ph).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh yeah. Nice hook, Joe (ph).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s a 500-pound fish.


SCHULTZ: And that is what the Ed Show should look like. Let me bring up
Captain Dave Marciano and also Captain Paul Hebert. Gentlemen, great to
have you with us tonight.

MARCIANO: Thanks for having us.


SCHULTZ: You are the stewards of the resource. Tell me about tuna
fishing, Dave, on the East Coast. Is it coming back?

MARCIANO: Oh absolutely, it`s coming back. You know, the trick with
fisheries management a lot of it is trial and error. You know, fishermen -
- the scientists tell us the problem, fishermen work with scientists to try
and create rules that will allow the stock to rebuild while we can make a
living fishing too. Because it`s important, you know, to be able to do
both, what`s good for fishermen and the fish.

Now, it`s taken some time just like it took time to deplete the resource
but over the past 20 years, we`ve seen some great rebuilding and specially
the last decade or so...

HEBERT: Big and wide (ph).

MARCIANO: ... we have see -- right, greater numbers every season and
that`s because, you know, U.S. fishermen have really been leaders in the
world when it comes to sustainable fishing practices.

SCHULTZ: Do those all -- do those folks making the rules pay attention to
you guys?

HEBERT: Well, they`re going to have to because the stocks have been coming
back. We`ve been doing really good. This year we saw more fish that we`ve
seen in 10 years.

SCHULTZ: Did you think that show is going to be this popular?




HEBERT: We didn`t know. We would -- we all...

SCHULTZ: Well, you got to be kidding. You got to be giggling every time
you see it.

HEBERT: And has opened doors, they have no idea when they approach us with


HEBERT: You know like, what do we going to do with this guys?

MARCIANO: You know, we have three -- like you said or like I see all the
time, we just ride the wave while it last, it`s something...

HEBERT: We`re very lucky.

MARCIANO: ... we never planned on and it certainly helped us out in making
that livelihood from fishing. And the part I really like about it is find
the, you know, we`ve been able to put a face on fishermen. You know what
mean? Because a lot of times, there`s opinions about fishing and, you
know, sometimes they`re not, you know, very kind the way they portray
fishermen. At least for this part of what we`re doing, working with
National Geographic.

You know, we feel it really good about being able to put a face in the
fishing industry.

HEBERT: There`s been a lot of speculation about, when you say tuna
fishing, people think of -- that`s, we catch one fish, one hook one at a
time and that`s how we catch our fish.

SCHULTZ: And the last fish that you caught is just as exciting as the
first one you ever have?

MARCIANO: Absolutely, yes. Absolutely, yes.

HEBERT: And I`m trying to remember the first one we do, right...

MARCIANO: Yes, yes.

SCHULTZ: That`s the hook, yeah.

HEBERT: I remember, yeah...

MARCIANO: I remember, when these were knocking -- when we hooked the first
one when I was fishing on a Jennie Vee (ph) with Billy Brown.

HEBERT: See, you`d never forget.

SCHULTZ: There`s no rush in the world like that.


SCHULTZ: There really isn`t and...

HEBERT: It`s the biggest adrenaline rush, plus the money is not bad

SCHULTZ: OK. What`s it like when you`re out there and things are, it`s a
little slow today and we got -- we`re up against the clock. We got to get
thing going. What`s that like?

HEBERT: We live by it. I mean, we`ve had good years, we`ve had bad years.
We do it for a living, this is our income. We know what has to be done and
we know we have to hang in that.

We`ve gone a month without a fish, without a hooked up. We`ve all gone
through it.

SCHULTZ: That`s tough.

HEBERT: Oh, it`s really tough.

SCHULTZ: That`s a pressure.

MARCIANO: The classic with the fishing industry, you know -- it`s either
feast or famine, you know, so always...

HEBERT: That`s how it is.

MARCIANO: ... have to remember when fishing is good, you put some away for
when the fishing isn`t good, right?

We`ve had to live with that especially...


MARCIANO: ... with a family and bills to pay. You know, and it`s inherits
in the fishing industry whether its bluefin tuna or any other fisherman
that are out there.

SCHULTZ: If regulations had not put in place at the time they were, what
would have happen?

MARCIANO: I think you would have faced a stock collapse.

HEBERT: Absolutely.

MARCIANO: Now, keep in mind when we say stock collapse the definition of
that -- of a stock collapsing is they no longer become commercially viable
to target. So they`re not extinct, they`re not gone forever, they`re not
wiped off the face in the planet but there`s not enough fish for guys to
target and make money.

Now this is a key difference though, because in my opinion successful
fisheries management. It is a fishermen being part of the solution not
part of the problem as well I like to think of myself as.

And ,you know, it`s important to say, all right, how do we rebuild the
stock, how do we get to those ever increasing abundances of fish while
allowing fishermen like me to make a living even in reduced manner. You
know what I mean?

So no, we`re not fishing...

HEBERT: As in Canada has been setting rules.

MARCIANO: ... extremely as we could 25 years ago but at least we`re
fishing somewhat and now we`re seeing, you know, the benefits of that
results. We`re seeing the stock increase.

So hopefully in the future, we`ll be able to fish more as the stock gets
healthier and healthier. And just this year they increased the U.S. quota.
ICCAT increased the U.S. portion of quota by 20 percent overall for United
States just based on the health of the resource itself.

HEBERT: And what is that tell you? That tells you the stocks
scientifically are getting better.

SCHULTZ: What kind of response you get from fans around the country? They
love the show (inaudible)...

HEBERT: Oh, yeah. Everyone loves the show, a lot of people love the show.

SCHULTZ: All right. Is it water temperature? Is it moon faces? Is it

HEBERT: It`s everybody.

SCHULTZ: ... Is it structure...


SCHULTZ: Is it chasing bait-fish? What is it?

MARCIANO: I mean, it`s bait, it`s the moon, right?

HEBERT: Everything has a factor on this fishery.

MARCIANO: Ultimately, you know, I`d figured out that with this bluefin
tuna in particular, as soon as I think I know what they`re doing...

HEBERT: Yeah, that`s (inaudible).

MARCIANO: ... what when I`m going to stop catching fish...

HEBERT: Every time you think you`re into something and you`ve figured
something out, that`s out the window.

SCHULTZ: OK. Now, what`s the biggest fish you guys have caught?

HEBERT: I got a 1,287. That`s a big one...

SCHULTZ: That`s 1,287.

MARCIANO: I was about 1,200.

SCHULTZ: OK. Wrong Lake in Manitoba, I could do a 25-pound Northern Pike
but I can`t do any 1,200 pounds guys...

MARCIANO: Now, look, I can tell you...

SCHULTZ: I just can`t do that.

MARCIANO: I never caught a 25-pound Northern Pike, all right? And I would
be happy to do so. That`s why we`re fortunate.

SCHULTZ: OK. You`ve got the invitation. But you know what? I can tell
you exactly where those fish are going to be...


SCHULTZ: ... depending on the conditions...


SCHULTZ: ... time of the year and also water temperature all that stuff...

HEBERT: We also have that setup. We know where we fish, we know where we
fish, we know where they`re going to be, what time they`re going to be
coming by.


MARCIANO: To a point but remember, with this -- unlike the lake, right,
these fish are HMS species, highly migratory species.

We know through tagging studies that this giant bluefin can travel 800
miles in a 24-hour period if they are inclined to do so.

SCHULTZ: What`s the biggest threat to them?

MARCIANO: Killer whales. Actually -- well, you need overall...


MARCIANO: ... stock and so. I mean, I think you know for a long -- it was
overfishing, right?


MARCIANO: Even in this country.

HEBERT: Lot of pressure on this.

MARCIANO: Now for 20 years we`ve demonstrated in this country that proper
management techniques can get you good positive results.


MARCIANO: And I think the rest of the world is catching on to that. And,
you know, we`re seeing that around the world. People are seeing the
benefit of -- if you manage fisheries sustainably you create more fish and
it`s just better, you know, its good business.

Look, where`s the profit for me...


MARCIANO: ... if we catch all the fish today...

HEBERT: Everybody`s going to buy...

MARCIANO: ... how I going to make to pay check tomorrow.

SCHULTZ: All right.

HEBERT: When everyone obliged by the rules, we got -- it`s on every Sunday
night, the shows on every Sunday night.

MARCIANO: On the National Geographic Channel.

SCHULTZ: All right. I`m going to put all of these...

HEBERT: It`s Sunday night, 9:00.

SCHULTZ: Sunday night, 9:00. Paul Hebert, Dave Marciano, tight lines my
friends. Good luck to you.

HEBERT: We plan on.

MARCIANO: Thank you very much.

SCHULTZ: Good luck to you.

And yell at the guy on back when there`s a fish on, all right.

HEBERT: Seeing all the little thing.



Coming up, the big business of the moon. We`ll tell you about their plan
to inhabit the moon -- we`re going to the moon with that tuna. That`s what
we`re doing.

Stick around. We`ll be right back.


SCHULTZ: Here we go.

Tonight`s two-minute drill, Little League big scandal. Chicago`s Jackie
Robinson West team has been stripped of its 2014 U.S. Championship Title.

Little League International says the team violated residency rules by
recruiting players who lived outside the area the team represents.

Team manager Darrell Butler has been suspended. As a result, the title now
goes to Mountain Ridge Little League from Las Vegas.

Little League International CEO Stephen Keener called it a heartbreaking

Up next. Pack it with Packer fans, that`s what he saying.

Three-time MVP Quarterback Brett Favre, once -- his induction into the
Packers Hall of Fame to be -- come on, open it to the public.

As of now, the team plans all the ceremony in Lambeau Stadium`s atrium
area. All 1,600 tickets to Farve`s introduction ceremony were sold to
sponsors and supporters without availability to the general public. You
didn`t like that.

Little boy from Mississippi says, hey, wait a minute, he wants to move the
celebration inside Lambeau Field saying, I think everyone should have an
option to go.

Finally, Charles Barkley has something to say to all of the number of
crunchers (ph) out there.


CHARLES BARKLEY, FORMER NBA PLAYER: Analytics don`t work at all. They`re
just some crap to some people who are really smart made up to try to get in
the game because they had no talent, because they had no talent to able to

SHAQUILLE O`NEAL, FORMER NBA PLAYER: I agree with you on that, Charles.

BARKLEY: ... so smart guys wanted to fit in. So they made up a term
called "analytics". Analytics don`t work. All these guys who run this
organization, who talk about analytics, they have one thing in common.
They`re a bunch of guys who ain`t never played the game, and they never got
the girls in high school, and they just want to get in the game.


SCHULTZ: Tell us what you really think.

Lots more coming up with the Ed Show. Stay with us, we`ll be right back.


SCHULTZ: And finally tonight, we`re just moments away from the SpaceX
launch in Cape Canaveral lift-off for Falcon 9, it`s been delayed three
times. The fourth attempt is scheduled at 6:03 P.M. Eastern Time this

In more space news, Newt Gingrich may have been on to something.


NEWT GINGRICH, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: By the end of my second term.

We will have the first permanent base on the moon and it will be American.


SCHULTZ: Well, a moon base could be a reality far more than a Gingrich
being president.

Bigelow Aerospace requested turf on the moon. The company wants to develop
inflatable habitats suitable for your lunar needs.

In a response, the FAA said that they want to ensure commercial activities
can be conducted on a non-interference basis. They`re open to getting the
ball rolling but activities on the moon are still regulated by the Outer
Space Treaty of 1967, space project could get cheaper though.

The U.S. military is developing a plan to launch smaller grade rockets from
F-15 Fighter jets, the (inaudible) program could slash millions from
lunching cost and finally space projects could get smaller.

The European Space Agency launched an experimental wingless shuttle this
morning. The car size spacecraft already returned to earth as planned.

Joining me tonight as Dr. Michio Kaku, Professor of Physics at the City
University of New York and author of "The Future of the Mind." Great to
have you with us tonight.


SCHULTZ: Why should we go to the moon?

KAKU: Well, it sounds like outer lunacy, right? However, in 2025 the
Chinese will put Chinese flag on the moon. And there could be -- not
exactly a gold rush but there could be renewed interest. In fact even
rivalry between the great powers to see who can get some lunar real state.

And Bigelow Aerospace as you pointed it out got squatters rights.
Squatters rights to squat on the chuck of lunar real state, not ownership.
But they have exclusive right to develop balloons on the moon, balloons
that could then be use as modules for a potential lunar base.

You know, if our pioneers two centuries ago had inflatable modules, we
wouldn`t have log cabins, you simply push a button and boom the balloon
inflates and there`s your moon base.

SCHULTZ: So we really don`t know where this is going, do we? I mean there
is endless possibilities and imagination here.

KAKU: Well, I think people are clueless when it comes to bottom line is,
what is your business plan? I mean, the moon is one gigantic rock, its
rock -- very similar to that found on the planet earth because the moon
came from the earth originally about 4 billion years ago.

And so, why not simply mine the earth? Do you have to go to the moon in
order to mines these mineral? Maybe helium three say some people, maybe
some exotic chemical are found on the moon. But you really have to scratch
your head to find a commercial reason for going to the moon.

SCHULTZ: But do you think we`ll see a business race so to speak, to be on
the cutting end edge and to be there?

KAKU: Well, I think there will be a motion to repeal the Outer Space
Treaty of 1967. That ban nations from claiming huge chunks of lunar real
state. And I think there could be in fact a traffic jam around the moon,
around 2025 as the Chinese and don`t forget the Indians, they`re not too
far behind. And of course the Russian and United States begin to reclaim
lunar real state.

SCHULTZ: The military is developing a cheaper way to launch satellites.
What does this mean for the collection of data?

KAKU: Well, to send this in orbit you would have to piggyback on a
gigantic space mission. Why not have a mini-stellite capability that is an
airplane, a jet, for $1 million, just $1 million dollars that can send 100-
pounds into orbit almost overnight. So you wouldn`t have to have all the
paperwork, you wouldn`t have all the launch problems, just this send up by
F-15 Fighter jets into outer space.

SCHULTZ: And the ESA shuttle is reusable. How beneficial is that?

KAKU: Well, reusability is the holy grail of the commercial space program.
And in fact, the count down has begun as you mentioned in 30 minutes or so,
we should know whether or now space history is being made with the Falcon

SCHULTZ: Are you confident that this is going to help us, you know,
forecast storms and severity and do what it supposed to do when it comes to
measuring the moisture in the ground.

KAKU: Well, it was Al Gore who first envisioned the deep space climate
observatory to seek between the sun and the earth to have continuous 24-
hour surveillance of the planet earth.

And so we are now beginning to seriously look at global warming about the
effects of the entire earth with regards to it heating up. And also it`s
is suppose to monitor solar flares from the sun. That`s another thing to
worry about. Big solar flare could really ruin your day. It could
paralyze our electric grid in a worst case scenario and send us back a
hundred years in worst case scenario.

SCHULTZ: Dr. Michio Kaku, I appreciate the conversation. Thanks for
coming in.

KAKU: Thank you.

SCHULTZ: You bet.

And that is the Ed show. I`m Ed Schultz.

"PoliticsNation" with Reverend Al Sharpton starts right now.

Good evening, Rev.


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