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The Ed Show for Thursday, February 19th, 2015

Read the transcript to the WedneThursday show

Date: February 19, 2015
Guest: PJ Hahn, Jesus "Chuy" Garcia, Stuart Russell, Molly O`Toole,
Holland Cooke


ED SCHULTZ, MSNBC HOST: Five years after the spill, Cat Island
disappearing act (ph).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Cat Island the ground zero to the oil spill.

SCHULTZ: So this is all that`s left to Cat Island.


SCHULTZ: This is it.


PJ HAHN, PELICAN COAST CONSULTING: If we don`t start rebuilding this
island we`re going to lose the pelican again.

SCHULTZ: And later, what drone exports will mean in the fight against

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The State Department is putting out an announcement to
about an expanded policy that could lead to the much wider export of arm

international community to come together and eradicate this scourge of
violent extremism.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Should we be selling drones to some of these allies.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think we have to do extremely conscious about it.

OBAMA: This isn`t our challenge alone. It`s a challenge for the world.

SCHULTZ: Plus, how Rahm`s failing grade on public education is impacting
the Chicago mayor`s race.

MAYOR RAHM EMANUEL, (D) CHICAGO: I said when I ran for office, we`re going
to tell the people the truth, do the tough things.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s been a year and a half since the mayor closed 50
Chicago public schools.

JESUS CHUY GARCIA, CANDIDATE FOR MAYOR: He`s the one that came to town
loaded with millions and millions of books (ph) and said I want to be
emperor of Chicago.

EMANUEL: I will absorb the political consequence so our children have a
better future.


SCHULTZ: Good to have you with us tonight folks. Thanks for watching.

We start this evening with our week long gulf series, "The Gulf Today 5
Years After The Spill".

In our first three stories, we`ve taken you across the gulf to hear from
people directly affected by the spill. I spoke with business owners who
say the disaster drove their livelihood right into the ground.


KEN PARMER, FORMER BUSINESS OWNER: They started pulling their boats out.
The guests stop eating seafood because of the worries of the dispersants
and the oil contaminating the seafood. We couldn`t get seafood out of our
local suppliers in Louisiana and Alabama because it was contaminated. So
that drove the cost up (ph) of the product if we could even find it.


SCHULTZ: The seafood in the gulf still requires a continuous testing.

Government study show the seafood is safe.

One of the largest shrimp distributors in the country showed us his latest


right here. There should be shell are going all the way to the bottom.
That`s a cancer right here you got.

SCHULTZ: That`s a cancer right there.


SCHULTZ: And you can tell by the color of the shell?

BLANCHARD: The shell is gone.

SCHULTZ: The shell is gone?

BLANCHARD: Yeah. You feel it? Feel it right here. You can see that
shell off.


SCHULTZ: The facts on how the spill impacted human health are still
emerging conclusive medical studies will take years. B.P. directed us to
government and company funded studies showing no direct correlation between
health concerns and the chemical spill.

We spoke with an environmental consultant who disagreed. He shared his
personal story.


HAHN: I started to get -- having problems with breathing and a weird rash
that breaks out from time to time. And, you know, and I just -- I went to
the doctor and the doctor -- I will say what he said when he was and --
basically, he didn`t know what it was and came out with some kind of
letters forward to us. And I said what is that means -- "I don`t know what
the hell...

SCHULTZ: A lots of folks who have that?

HAHN: Well, and I thought I just contributed to old age, because I was
getting all with trouble of breathing and then talking to the people that
work out there. They`re all complaining about the same thing. And when we
went to the doctor and get treated for it, it doesn`t help. They treated
it as like it`s asthma but (inaudible) with the other medications that they
give you for asthma weren`t working on it. You still felt the same and
didn`t even relieve it a little bit.


SCHULTZ: And tonight, we examined Cat Island. People in the gulf felt
this was ground zero for the oil spill. It was a crucial breathing ground
for the Louisiana state bird. After all the devastation, there is now a
big community effort to restore Cat Island.


HAHN: The nation, the world didn`t understand how bad this oil spill was.

SCHULTZ: The images were iconic. Louisiana state bird covered in oil, a
symbol of the gulf disaster.

PJ Hahn was there to document it.

HAHN: The media we would get out there before the workers would get out
there and once they started seeing these poor birds covered in oil, gasping
for air and those pictures came back which -- yeah. We`re going to get
some help.

SCHULTZ: Authorities did not want the media to see that, did they?

HAHN: They absolutely didn`t want us to see. And as the amateur
photographer so to speak, I was out there photographing, taking photographs
and I have a lot of the media with me. And we happened to catch some birds
in oil -- that were trapped in the oil, covered in oil.

SCHULTZ: So if that story had gotten out there may have been more of an
intensity to save Cat Island?

HAHN: Well, I believe that more intensity to get more equipment down here
because we were being told there`s a lot of equipment.

The problem is, they would leave shore -- they would leave land, load up
their boats and by time they got on the water it was 11:00 in the morning
and then they only work `til 4:00 or 5:00 in the afternoon. By the time it
got dark, they were coming back off.

Now the locals, the people that were locally hired, those guys worked until
middle of the night. They wear lamps on their head just to go out and
collect the oil.

SCHULTZ: Off the coast of Louisiana barrier islands provide a sanctuary
for wildlife.

HAHN: Little groups of islands they were anywhere between 4 acres to 6
acres in size and it was pelican and various other types of birds, even
some endangered species that were using those islands to nest.

The birds use those islands because they are far away from any type of
predators. Now, they had 7-foot to 8-foot mangrove trees on those islands.
They were so thick. As a matter of fact, you couldn`t get on to the
island. You can only drive around the island. You couldn`t actually get
on the islands and it was covered with birds.

SCHULTZ: Cat Island was one of the barrier islands off the coast of
Louisiana that`s saw the most damage from the oil spill.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Cat Island is ground zero to the oil spill and there`s
a series of barrier islands along the Louisiana coast.

What happened was the oil came along the west side of Mississippi river.
It came through what they call (inaudible) came in there and -- as it came
through this whole island (inaudible).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Not that there`s ever a good time for an oil spill but
it was a worst time because the birds were nesting at that time. So you
had the pelicans, and shore birds, and a variety of other birds that were
using those islands at the time to nest. And unfortunately, the oil was
coming in so thick that`s covered the mangroves, they would kill the
mangrove trees and they are the vegetation that were on those islands.

HAHN: When the root system dies of any plants out here in the gulf, what
happened is the land start to fall apart. There`s nothing to keep the root


HAHN: ... to keep those lands (inaudible).

SCHULTZ: And then the erosion takes place.

HAHN: Yeah. And (inaudible) way back here erosion from different storms
or just a natural wind and wave action that hit these islands starts
breaking apart.

SCHULTZ: Can you believe what you`re looking at right now?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m shocked. I mean, it`s just that it`s really gut-

SCHULTZ: This is all that`s left of Cat Island.


SCHULTZ: This is it.


SCHULTZ: Right off these islands, when you get into shallow water and the
craft starts to run out of ground a little bit, it kicks up the ground and
this is what comes in the surface.

You can actually smell the oil. It`s literally amazing. See our craft
went through there with a two engines kick up the surface and there`s your
oil. It comes right to the surface and it stinks.

Birds are still on these islands coming in here feeding. So you can just
imagine the contamination that takes place within the wildlife.

As the island slowly disappears, so might the migratory birds that have
made the island their breeding ground.

HAHN: We`ve lost the pelican which is our state bird back in the `60s due
to DDT. Louisiana is only got six bird islands left and they`re all
disappearing. U.S. Wildlife and Fisheries did studies on the birds and
discovered that what happened is when these birds are born on this islands
they imprint to those islands, and they`ll come back every year, year after
year to those same islands.

DAVID MUTH, NATIONAL WILDLIFE FEDERATION: They`re going to move where they
have to move. It`s just that, you know, we`re running out of places for
them to go to.

HAHN: If we don`t start rebuilding these islands and the small little
habitat for them, we`re not going -- we`re going to loss the pelican again
because of habitats.

SCHULTZ: There was a massive effort now being put forth to restore this,
to bring it back to its nature position.

So your goal is to rebuild Cat Island?

HAHN: Absolutely.

SCHULTZ: Which is going to take how much?

HAHN: $6 million. We`ve been able to raised $3 million and we got a great
cooperation our new parish president, Amos Cormier, he`s decided to step up
the pace and help as well by using some of the funding that the parish has.
So we`ve got money that we`ve cobble (ph) together from donation.

I know we can bring it back, we got to bring in back. And then, the birds
are depending on this thing. It`s going to be a beautiful bird sanctuary
once it gets completed.

SCHULTZ: In their getting support from some unlikely sources.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Shell Oil put up $1 million to help us rebuild this
island. So they`re not all bad, you know, they`re not all bad.


HAHN: There`s actually at one time belonged to Apache Oil and Apache Oil
approached them to donate to the parish and they did.

SCHULTZ: What is B.P. done to restore it?

HANH: Nothing.

SCHULTZ: Nothing.


SCHULTZ: Not a dime.

HAHN: We send out...

SCHULTZ: Not a dime for Cat Island?

HAHN: Not a dime. It`s a shame that we have to pay for something we had -
- that we had no responsibility of committing this.


SCHULTZ: We`ve invited B.P. to speak with us on this program all week.
They`ve declined the invitation. The invitation -- that invitation remains

Joining us live tonight our guide to Cat Island, PJ Hahn of Pelican Coast

PJ, thanks for you hospitality down there and your guidance through all of
this and shown us exactly where Cat Island was because if we had not caught
a tide ride, correct me if I`m wrong, we didn`t gone right over it,

HAHN We would have lost it, Ed, And, Ed, first of all, thank you and
thanks to the show for having me on and for bringing all of these to light
to the nation and showing people the devastation that`s happened and what
these people and the wildlife has having to go through.

Five years, it still going on, it`s still not right. And it`s a shame
because Cat Island, which you just highlighted in your show, was just the
most beautiful place. You`ll see some of the most beautiful birds.

Over 75 percent of all migratory birds passed right through that area. And
it`s one of the most beautiful areas and bird sanctuaries that you could
find and it`s now gone.


HAHN: Generations of birds lost.

SCHULTZ: And right where we kicked up the bottom is right at Cat Island
and that, you know, oil came up to the top or something came to the top and
it stunk right there. So I just want our audience to know that is exactly
where we were when we run a ground right there and again, it kick up the

Now, I want to go through this. B.P. told us in a statement when asked
about Cat Island. They said Cat Island was rapidly eroding before the
Deepwater Horizon accident in 2010 -- primarily due to erosion from
Hurricanes Katrina and Rita. What`s your response to that?

HAHN: Yeah. It`s a shame because B.P. is stealing a page out of a book of
Hitler to say, you keep saying things over and over to the public and
(inaudible) will take us the truth even if you`re lying to him.

And the sad thing is, that`s totally false because Cat Island was in
perfect condition. We had 8-foot mangrove trees, you saw the pictures.
I`d photographed that island two years in the making of photographing. It
was gone.

Are you telling me that that island could disappear that quickly? We saw
the pictures of the oil over the root covering of mangrove trees that would
kill those mangroves. Once the mangrove trees died, that`s it, they`re
gone. There`s no more island because as root system dies so does the

So for B.P. they continuously put up their propaganda. If B.P. would just
pay -- pick the ads off the T.V. one day of what they spend nationwide to
tell everybody how good they are and promote themselves as to saving the
gulf and use that money to restore things like Cat Island. One day worth
of commercial could have put this island back.

Five years later, we`re still having this conversation about who`s going to
build Cat Island...


HAHN: ... and they were directly responsible.

SCHULTZ: So if you were taking the bull by the horns to collect the
resources, nothing would be happening with Cat Island. Here`s the local
folks that have got a real concern here...

HAHN: Yes.

SCHULTZ: ... that a real desire to do this.

HAHN: That`s right.

SCHULTZ: Because I sense just how much love for the region and the
community, they`re actually was down there.

What it is like right now? What -- if you go out there, understand you
were out there today, what did you find?

HAHN: Well, unfortunately, the birds are trying to -- several different --
especially the pelicans are trying to land out on some place that`s not
there. These were birds that were probably born there two or three
generations ago that are returning and wandering around the island,
swimming around the island. And actually now, in most cases, trying to
find a place to nest.

And what`s -- unfortunately, what`s happening is, with the lost of the
island, with nothing there, those birds will not go up and breed somewhere
else. That`s it. The U.S. Wildlife and Fisheries clearly has report
showing these birds once they come back to this island, if it`s not there,
they don`t go up and breed somewhere else.

So unfortunately, generation after generation of birds were losing and it`s
not only the pelican, there were a lot of birds that`s nested there. Some
of them rare and endangered birds that we were able to photograph that use
that island to nest.

SCHULTZ: Yeah. And do you have something to show us that you picked up

HAHN: I do. I was out at this morning. Of course, I loved how B.P.
saying everything is gone. Obviously, there`s so much oil still out there.

SCHULTZ: So what are we looking at right now?

HAHN: What you see right now is a screenshot of a marsh grass -- I brought
a scientist out there that`s doing research on bugs in the marsh. And
while we were out there, of course, there`s a lot of dead marsh with the
oil that`s kicked on underneath it. But she`s doing a research on bugs in
the marsh and it`s a very interesting research that she`s doing because
they`re pretty much a canary in a coal mine showing that at all levels
wherever this oil is at the bugs are dying.

Even -- there are certain bugs that live only on the ground, some that live
in the middle of the stacks (ph) and some that only move from top-tip or
the top of the stacks (ph).

SCHULTZ: So this would document irreversible damage?

HAHN: Right. This is -- I don`t know whether you can see this but...

SCHULTZ: Yes, we can see it. Yup.

HAHN: OK. And basically what you can see is this marsh grass...

SCHULTZ: Yeah. Lifts up a little bit.

HAHN: Obviously, this marsh grass is -- it would be very tall. This is
the oil clinging on to it. I`ll leave it here in the studio. If B.P is
watching tonight, they want to send somebody to pick it up or even give him
a GPS coordinate to where to find some more of this.

But this is the kind of stuff that you find out there, in the marsh. And
this is a type of stuff that the birds in the wildlife are feeding on the
small -- underneath, they`re this stuff are a lot of small crabs and
crustaceans that the marine life, the wildlife are all eating and it gets
put back to the ecosystem.

SCHULTZ: We`re going to replay our Monday story tomorrow but then, coming
up on Monday, we`re going to have an extensive report on restitution.

There has been -- describe the restitution, if you can, to lead us to where
we`re going for Monday`s coverage.

HAHN: Well, what happened is there is -- under the Clean Water Act, there
are several -- going to be several different buckets of money coming down
to the coast. So far, we haven`t seen any of those buckets directly to the


HAHN: Plaquemines Parish, what we`re hoping to do is be able to cobble
(ph) the money that we`ve raised from -- for Cat Island which is over $3


HAHN: And then we`re also looking at trying to get some moneys from the
first wave of restore funds and be able to use that to put the island back.

SCHULTZ: OK. And B.P., for the record, no money yet towards Cat Island,

HAHN: No money yet at all and I, you know, I literally have called every
number I could for B.P. and I`ve spoken with them trying to get them to
look and recognize this island and come out here and spend...


HAHN: ... a little bit of money on it. It would go a long way to be able
to restoring what was once an absolute, gorgeous, pristine island and a
great bird sanctuary.

SCHULTZ: And they also, in their statement to us said that, that they
blamed a winter freeze for killing vegetation.

HAHN: Again, I can`t say that if you`ve repeat a lie long enough, you`ll
people will take as a truth. And unfortunately, that`s been -- that is
been B.P.`s MO from day one, lie about how much oil came up the wellhead,
lie about what they were putting out in the ground as far as resources to
pick up the oil. And then even after this oil spill, they`ve lost every
appeal so far in court.

You know, they`re going to do...


HAHN: ... everything they can not have to spend a dime to correct. I
mean, we`ve lost -- and I`d like to point out, 11 lives were lost in that
explosion. I mean, if that doesn`t show negligence, pure negligence, and
the price of the oil like the barrel for oil rises when once you identified

This is pure negligence on the part of this company.

SCHULTZ: All right.

HAHN: We have a lot of good companies, a lot of good oil companies that
work and thrive in the gulf and that a lot of people depend on. B.P. was
just a bad player in the gulf. That is plain and simple.

SCHULTZ: PJ Hahn, great to have you with us tonight. I appreciate...

HAHN: Thank you, Ed.

SCHULTZ: ... your helping...

HAHN: Thank you very much.

SCHULTZ: ... produce these segments. Thank you so much.

HAHN: Yes, sir.

SCHULTZ: The full segment from B.P. on Cat Island can be found at

Get your cellphones out, I want to know what you think.

Tonight`s question, "From our reporting, are you surprised with the
condition of the gulf?" Text A for Yes, text B for No to 67622, you can go
to my blog at and leave a comment. We`ll you the results on
the poll later on in the show.

Up next, many Chicago once call him, "Mayor 1%" as Rahm Emanuel gears up
for reelection. Next week, I`m talking to his top challenger, Chuy Garcia
when we come back. Stay with us.


SCHUTLZ: Welcome back to the Ed Show.

The Chicago mayoral race is less than one week away and Rahm Emanuel is
pulling out all stops to get his reelection bid in stone.

Emanuel has tapped in to his $30 million war chest to flood the local air
waves with T.V. ads.

Today President Obama travel to Chicago to designate a national monument
and rub the elbows with his former chief of staff.


OBAMA: I have confidence as a voter and as a resident of Chicago that he`s
going to continue to do a great job. I`m glad he`s my Mayor, and I`m glad
he`s going to be my mayor for another four years.


SCHULTZ: Well, that would be an endorsement.

According to the latest number Rahm Emanuel could use the boost.

Chicago Tribune poll shows Rahm Emanuel leading by 45 percent in suits (ph)
of 45 percent he`s top challenger and my next guest Chuy Garcia comes in
with 20 percent rating of support, 18 percent of voter say that they are
still undecided and to make number.

Emanuel needs to hit 50 percent plus one benchmark in order to avoid a run-
off election on April 7th with the second place finisher.

Garcia wants to go one-on-one with what they call "Mayor 1%" in Chicago.
Obviously, those are Emanuel supporters.

Garcia has the backing of a number of labor and progressive groups who have
tried -- who are basically tired of what they call Rahm Emanuel`s corporate
friendly leadership.

Garcia has pitched himself as a mayor for all of us. He`s most
enthusiastic supporter comes from the Chicago Teachers Union.

Emanuel has spent years battling with Chicago teachers. He angered voters
with his decision to close 50 public schools most in minority neighborhoods
on the south and west side of Chicago. Some residents feel that he was
picking and choosing neighborhoods which of course alienated a lot of
minority voters.

Emanuel now sets at 42 percent with black residences who make up a third of
the cities population. Go up in 25 percent of undecided black voters will
play a key role in deciding whether Rahm Emanuel avoids a run-off of even
wins the race. This race comes down to that old term "turnout".

Speaking of turnout, we did reach out to Mayor Rahm Emanuel to invite him
to join us on this program, unfortunately, he had a scheduling conflict.
The invitation stands -- Rahm Emanuel, you`re certainly welcome to come on
the Ed Show before the election or any other time.

Joining me tonight is Chicago mayoral candidate Chuy Garcia. Mr. Garcia,
good to have you with us tonight.

If you had to describe Rahm Emanuel`s time as mayor of Chicago, how would
you do it?

GARCIA: Well, during the time that he`s been mayor, he`s catered to select
a few in the city who have benefited from his tenure. He essentially has
catered to the rich and powerful in Chicago, receiving huge amounts of
campaign contributions from Hollywood, from Hedgeland managers, from the
wealthy in Chicago.

And the Chicago Tribune showed two weeks ago a series that most of his
contributors expect return in the form of contracts of appointments to
important board in commissions, tax increment, financing subsidies, just a
host of benefits that 60 percent of his donors, the article pointed out,
benefit directly from giving him money while the neighborhood in Chicago
have suffered.

As you pointed out, from the massive school closing that have occurred in
Chicago making us a leader in that regard and also from Chicago becoming
we`re the most violent cities in the country with over 10,000 shootings
over the past.


GARCIA: . four years, so there some (inaudible) issues that are before the
voters right now.

SCHULTZ: So, Mr. Garcia, how is the black vote going to go? How much of
an effect will be felt in this election based on what the mayor did with
closing of 50 schools?

GARCIA: I think the school closures were a turning point for African-
American voters in the city. The African-American community suffered a
disproportion at the impact. In terms of the numbers of schools that were
close, you know, the neighborhood where the school were close were
devastated by the school closing (inaudible) doubt a sign of life, a sign
of positive energy, it affected local businesses is very negative...

SCHULTZ: But what would be different if you were mayor?

GARCIA: Well, for one, I would non have them barked on such a course, I
would have listen to the voice of parents, and student, and other
stakeholders in this communities that said, if you close these buildings,
these institutions our communities will truly be in the terrible straits in
terms of having any hope for the future. It`s a sign of the disinvestment
that`s occurred under this administration.


GARCIA: . in many Chicago neighborhood.

SCHULTZ: Is President Obama`s visit today and flat out endorsement. Well,
you heard the sound bite. Is that going to help the mayor in Chicago?

GARCIA: I don`t think so, I think it`s too little and too late. I think
the President came in at the behalves of the mayor who`s trying to save
himself from going into a run-off. But I think this mayor has demonstrated
a real carelessness to ordinary working people in Chicago.


GARCIA: ... and the neighborhoods just think that he`s not a neighborhood
guy, doesn`t spend his time there. When they did an investigation under
use of his time as mayor of the city of Chicago, he always makes time to
meet with the rich and powerful but not in the neighborhood (inaudible)...

SCHULTZ: So he`s not going to be everybody`s mayor. Yes, you`ve
capitalized on that saying that you`re...

GARCIA: I have.

SCHULTZ: ... a mayor for everybody. OK.

GARCIA: Yes. And interesting enough, you know, the city downtown district
which is doing great happens to complies one percent of the total land mass
of the city of Chicago.

SCHULTZ: All right. Chuy Garcia, thanks for joining us tonight.

GARCIA: Thank you, Ed.

SCHULTZ: The election of course is next Tuesday.

GARCIA: Going to a run-off.

SCHULTZ: Going to -- you think it`ll be going to a run-off?

GARCIA: Yes, I do.

SCHULTZ: OK. We`ll follow the story. I appreciate your time tonight.

GARCIA: Thank you.

SCHULTZ: Coming up, Walmart big announcement. And later, the Obama
administration has drastically altering our armed drone policy, what it
could mean for national security.

That`s ahead. Stay with us.


SCHULTZ: Welcome back to the Ed Show.

Retail giant Walmart is making headlines today promising to give a half of
million employees pay raises in the next two months.

By April, the starting pay for an entry level position of the store will be
ramp up to $9 an hour. That`s nearly $2 more than the federal minimum
wage. It is still far below the $15 minimum wage.

Protesters have been working towards but the company did respond.

Walmart`s decision comes on the hills of insurance company at this major
announcement. This big company said last month, Aetna, that they would
ramp their based pay raise to $16 an hour. The company also plans to
launch an enhanced medical benefits program which will lower out-of-pocket
expenses for employees.

To the state of Wisconsin, where members of the Menominee tribe, completed
their five-day march to Madison, they had hoped to talk to Governor Scott
Walker about a proposed Hard Rock Hotel and Casino. They want in Kenosha,

This is something advocates say will bring money into the state and to the
(inaudible) tribe jobs to help the unemployed and, of course, tax dollars
to the state. But Governor Walker won`t budge on this decision. He`s
against the casino and refused to meet with the tribe members after their
five-day march to Madison.

In the state of Texas, despite its ban on same sex marriage allowed a gay
couple to marry today.

The license was granted for medical raises to Sarah Goodfriend and Suzzane
Bryant, after Goodfriend was recently diagnosed with ovarian cancer. This
is not a sweeping change to the state legislation as the grant only applies
to this one couple.

Texas statewide ban on gay marriage was declared unconstitutional in
federal court last year. The judge stayed the ruling to allow the state to

And tonight, in our Ask Ed Segment, our question comes from Larry (ph). He
wants to know, what could Democrats be doing before 2016 arrives?

How about getting a candidate? Get somebody to declare. I`m starting to
think that nobody is going to declare except Hillary.

Stick around, Rapid Response Panel is next.

Market Wrap.

Stocks in today mixed. The Dow sheds 44 points, the S&P is off by 2, the
NASDAQ is up by 18.

Most of the Dows decline is due to the decline in Walmart shares which
finished down more than t3 percent. The company`s latest earnings being
estimate but revenue fell short. It`s also boasting pay for employees.

And the number of Americans filling for first time jobless claims fell by
21,000 in the latest week to 283,000. E-commerce were expecting a smaller

That`s it from CNBC, first in business worldwide.


SCHULTZ: Welcome back to the Ed Show.

The Obama administration has announced a major shift in our country`s armed
drone policy.

This week the State Department said that it would permit the export of arm
drones for the first time.

The administration is moving quickly on this. Carefully selected allied
countries could have arm drones by 2016.

The Unites States, China and Israel are the only three countries that
currently manufacture arm drones. Turkey and Italy have reportedly been
seeking to buy arm drones from the United States for some time. Both of
these countries are concerned with the spread of ISIS.

The Obama administration has laid down a strict set of rules for drone

Drones cannot be used for unlawful surveillance. No country could use
drones against their domestic population and any use must take place in
internationally sanction military operations.

Each sale would be individually reviewed and the United States would
monitor compliance. Drone technology has greatly advanced in recent years.
The latest Reaper drone can carry as much munitions as an F-16 fighter.

The Obama administration said the policy shift is to ensure arm drones are
used responsibly and legally around the world which of course has been
questioned by many of the United States uses drones but you cannot deny
their effectiveness.

Joining me tonight in our Rapid Response Panel is Stuart Russell who was a
Professor of Computer Science at U.C. Berkeley and an expert on robotics
also with us tonight, Molly O`Toole -- pop above (ph) -- talk about
political reporter for Defense One. Great to have both of you with us

Molly, you first, did people in your line of work know this policy shift
was on the horizon, was there much conversation about it? I mean, it just
came out the other day and it didn`t seem like anybody knew that this is
going to happen.

MOLLY O`TOOLE, DEFENSE ONE: I saw the media announcement. It is come as a
bit of a surprise to some. I can`t believe the Washington Post, I`ve got
to jumped on it but not by a long but this conversation around the sale of
drones -- has been going on for some time from two different perspectives.
From the business community, a lot of production of arm drones of these
technology even goes on in the United States and they`ve been complaining
that the they don`t have access to this market because of the regulations.
And then politically with the ramp up in the fight against the Islamic
State our encouragement for coalition partners to get more involved.

There had been request that have been previously denied for both armed and
unarmed drone technology. For example, Jordan earlier who is a crucial
ally in fight against Islamic State had made such a request for unarmed
predator drones for surveillance and that have been denied.

For the conversation had been going on although I just think the
announcement came as somewhat of a surprise.

SCHULTZ: OK. Professor Russell, you wrote in a recent post that several
nations are working towards the development of lethal autonomous weapon
systems that can assess information, choose targets, and open fire without
human intervention.

This is so pretty scary stuff. How advanced is this technology and how
risky is it for us to let other countries have it?

very far along. The pieces are all in place. And if you wanted something
that would run by itself, for example, if you were worried about enemies
the harmony (ph) of communication with your drones and you needed to have a
drone flying by itself using its own target.

I think you could pretty much put something together it right now. And
have it out there within a few months.

Would it be the highest quality system? Would it sometimes make mistakes -
- that`s to be seen. But suddenly, within less than five years, you could
have very high quality systems out there doing a lot of their jobs that are
done by drones right now.

The risk would be that, this is not the first step. The technology that we
have right now with drones is a human being teleoperating the vision. The
vision fed is coming back to the home base and the human is making the

So right now, we could replace that function with autonomy but the arms
race that would ensue would be very rapid because once you have fully
autonomous drones up rising, then they`re operating in a much highest speed
in terms of their reaction times. And so the only way you can defend
against them is by having autonomous attack drones that would engage those
drones and you get into an arms race and to limit that arms race.

The end point would be machines of incredible speed, incredible accuracy,
and incredible lethality against humans. And, you know, I`ve said in some
other interviews that on the battle field, the lifespan of human being
might be 10 seconds under those circumstances.

SCHULTZ: Amazing. And if we didn`t export this technology Professor,
would other countries get it anyway?

RUSSELL: So there are two parts of that question. The export of drones
that are teleoperated by humans, I think that`s happening already. There
are more than 60 countries who have drone programs either buying an drone
technology or developing their own.

The creation of systems that is capable operating independently is more
difficult. And I think right now only the U.S. could produce high quality

So at the moment, the United Nations is working very hard on a treaty that
would actually ban the deployments of weapons that can shoot their own
targets out and engage, in other words, kill them.

SCHULTZ: Molly, how would the United States monitor compliance? That`s
like me selling you a car and telling you can`t drive on mainstream.

I mean, when someone -- we can just imagine that a country is going to feel
pressured in some way and maybe go up and use the drone because they may
view it in their own best interest yet it might violate. And so, how would
the United States enforce that and what about compliance?

O`TOOLE: Right. Well, we`re not exactly sure how this is going to play
out as of yet -- I mean, as you yourself noted regarding the State
Department`s announcement, they included details of how stringent the
application process would be and that the bar (ph) would be pretty high,
and that I think they use of phrase "presumption of denial".

So it`s unclear, after we get him, the drone is over, (inaudible) drone
technology over even how they would enforce compliance. And I think as the
Professor suggested, there is a concern here about the proliferation of
this technology. But I think part of the motivation behind this
announcement which many analysts and reporters have stated this that they
recognized that there are some lot of inevitability to the spread of this


O`TOOLE: ... with the proliferation of this technology.

So it`s the way the U.S. can kind of preempt to that and try to regulate it
and control it as best they can while acknowledging that inevitability.

SCHULTZ: And, Professor, is there a sense here that this might just be a
business deal? We want to sell more than the Israelis and the Chinese on
this, that we want to deal before they do it. Or is this really about
security and the President talking yesterday about allies and fighting ISIS
and making sure by (inaudible) and get it done? Well here we are.

RUSSELL: Well, you might say it`s a consequence of factors. I mean, none
of us would be shocked if business was arguing for greater freedom to
export ...

SCHULTZ: All right.

RUSSELL: ... those weapons.


RUSSELL: I just -- I`m reminded of my kids, you know, I accidentally got
them NERF guns for Christmas and they promised never to use them in the
house, right, as you can tell what happened.

SCHULTZ: We can use our imagination. And also, what if they fall into the
wrong hands?

Stuart Russell Professor of U.C. Berkeley, thank you. And also, Molly
O`toole who was a political reporter for Defense One, I appreciate your
time tonight. Thank you so much.

O`TOOLE: OK. Thanks.

Coming up, Jeb Bush is gearing up for a presidential run but right-wing
talkers, they are just trashing this guy in the airwaves.

Talk Radio Consultant, Media Consultant Holland Cooke with a few details
when we come back.

Stay with us. We`ll be right back.


SCHULTZ: And tomorrow, we revisit part one of our series, "The Gulf Today
5 Years After The Spill".

Coastal residents told us what impact the disaster had on business and

According fishermen, Rocco Scalone, the effects of the spill will be felt
for generations.


they`ve dumped more oil in the gulf than I`ve ever -- in my lifetime
(inaudible) anywhere.

All we had to do is just keep it going so that my kids could have something
(inaudible) life and now I got nothing.


SCHULTZ: That`s coming up tomorrow on the Ed Show at 5:00 Eastern and I`ll
join Joe Scarborough tomorrow morning, on Morning Joe to talk more about
our series.

Next week, we examine the restitution program of "The Gulf 5 Years After
The Spill", the battle continues in the courtroom.


GLENN GILLYARD, CARR, RIGGS & INGRAM, LLC: Personally, I just think that
B.P has been taking as much time as they can, retaining as much capital as
they can. It slows the system, their using this to do it. There`s also an
appeal process that they have. They can appeal anything from a business
claim over $25,000.

Currently, they`re appealing about (inaudible) notices to come out.


SCHULTZ: That`s coming up Monday on the Ed Show.

Up next, Jeb Bush steps into the conservative gauntlet. Holland Cooke,
Media Consultant, weighs in on what the ratings are talking about. Stay
with us.



FRM. GOV. JEB BUSH (R) FLORIDA: I`m my own man and my views are shaped by
my own thinking and my experiences.


SCHULTZ: Welcome back to the Ed Show.

Given that statement the former Florida Governor is still surrounding
himself with the same guys as dad and he`s brother were hanging out with on
the administration.

Take a look at this Venn diagram from the Washington post the fix, showing
the overlap between Jeb Bush`s advisors and past Bush administrations.
Despite, who Jeb is surrounding himself with, he still doesn`t have the
support of the GOP base.

The latest CNN poll of national Republican voters shows that Mike Huckabee.
He has the lead in 17 percent. Bush is in at second place at 12 percent,
Scott Walker and Rand Paul each in 11 percent, Ben Carson takes 9 percent
of this poll.

Since Jeb Bush announcing December that he would actively explore a White
House run. Conservative talkers on the radio around the country have been
painting (ph) Bush as an -- entitles in Republican a "name only".


LAURA INGRAHAM, "LAURA INGRAHAM SHOW" HOST: I think Jeb Bush, you know, if
I had to bet right now he`d be the nominee. And if I had to bet right now,
he`ll lose. I don`t want that to happen.

positions, Hillary Clinton and Jeb Bush, on the key important issues, they
are two peas in the same pod.


SCHULTZ: The Republican Party can`t seem to decide who Jeb Bush takes
after. He`s family or he`s potential opponent, whoever that might be
because nobody`s announced.

Holland Cook, Talk Radio Consultant, joins us tonight here in studio of the
Ed Show. Good to see, great to have you with us.


SCHULTZ: All right. So, he`s own man, why would he go down in that road
and even address that?

COOKE: Well, he`s going to have to because, as you say, the talent he`s
round it up includes some familiar names. He frankly beat Michter (ph) to
the talent and to the Dow (ph). I`m not surprise by that Huckabee number
you just showed because he is playing better to that based, who has two
problems with Jeb common core immigration and because Huckabee of all the
2016 wannabes is the best speaker.

SCHULTZ: He is the guy media savvy.

COOKE: Yeah, Carson is the worst but the Huckabee is the best.

SCHULTZ: OK. Now to Bush, what`s the problem with right-wing takers in

COOKE: Two-fold -- does he have a problem with talk radio and frankly
doesn`t matter. Talk radios really good in the mid-terms because turnout
is low, tends to be the more zealous (ph) voters, tends to be the base.
General election is -- every four years people get excited we`re going to
pick up a president. It`s more representative. Talk radio doesn`t have
quite the track record in the presidential years that it has as we just saw
in the off-years.

So if he does have a talk radio problem, does it matter? You`ve seen the
ratings, and the big markets, the big national talkers are in ratings

So we`ll see, but I do think he has a problem with him. Glenn Beck is
doing the drastic voice that he does, warning you about Jeb. You`ve heard
what Laura Ingraham says. Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity are very
favorable to Ted Cruz who owns the Tea Party reign. Sean is very intrigue
with Rand Paul who owns libertarian lane.

So if those two can win place or show in Iowa, New Hampshire and South
Carolina. They`re going to be pace cars that make this a long race for

SCHULTZ: Media Matters has pointing out how many times Limbaugh has
mentioned Scott Walker`s name. It`s almost as if he`s already picked his
guy in the race and because of his attack on Eugene and he is
conservatively principle that he thinks he`s the guy. Can Limbaugh help

COOKE: We`ll see but Walker`s in Jeb`s lane, you know, he`s going to be
the establishment governor guy and, frankly, although I don`t think that
he`s intention, Walker maybe running for V.P.

SCHULTZ: Well, does talk radio have the influence it had 10 years ago?

Let say -- let`s go back to 2004, in the reelection of George W. Bush. A
lot of people of this day are so wondered how the heck did that happened.

And I mean, they were -- the ratings were pounding John Kerry, just pounded
him. I mean just going after -- I`ve never heard anything, never seen
anything like that before, or heard anything like that before.

I mean, would that have an effect this time around or is talk radio lost
some its influence?

COOKE: Well, back then was before Twitter...


COOKE: ... and before Facebook. People are having conversation with or
without talk radio. And you have seen how they have to turn on a dime when
the Twitter burst turns again them.

You seem still that they will quickly walk back and apologize of Limbaugh
pounds on him. But I think the attention is now spread out and that the
people having the conversation are more in control and that the gatekeepers
on talk radio might be less influential because of social media.

SCHULTZ: I think the gatekeepers of talk radio are well aware that the
Republican Party doesn`t want to do too much or they going to get pounded
on the radio. I think that they have more of influence on people in
Washington than they do on the actual voters across the country.

COOKE: Yeah. And if were Jeb I wouldn`t be going on the show now, anyway.
Like Hillary lay low for now. What do you have to gain by exposing
yourself? But sooner or later they`re both going to have to show up.

SCHULTZ: Well, as far as Hillary is concern I don`t think it`s going to be
-- I don`t think it`s going to be a coronation. I think it`s going to be
draft. I mean, the $8 billion is going to be -- spent and who can raise
that kind of money.

COOKE: Yeah.

SCHUTLZ: I would say the Clintons are first out.

COOKE: Yeah. The Dow is mother`s milk of this process and I would take
her stumbling...


COOKE: ... to bring in Joe Biden who would be the obvious Plan B.

SCHULTZ: Holland Cooke, great to have you with us.

COOKER: Thank you.

SCHULTZ: That`s the Ed Show, I`m Ed Schultz.

PoliticsNation with Reverend Al starts now.


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